Ali more impressive against Chuvalo 1st or 2d time?

1st fight Ali just Boxed his way to a comfortable decision but he still had to Box well against Chuvalo because of how dangerous he was, Chuvalo won 3 rounds on cards officially!! and he had sporadic success landing to the body on rare occasions when Ali was trapped on the ropes but all in all id say it was a good performance by Ali against a tough opponent.

2nd fight was a much closer fight, albeit Muhammad Ali still won it clearly but not as decisive as the first. Chuvalo tested Ali more in the rematch.

Both good performances by Ali but he was hit more in the second fight but he was also tested more, so what do you reckon ?

Ali more impressive against Chuvalo 1st or 2d time?

1st fight Ali just Boxed his way to a comfortable decision but he still had to Box well against Chuvalo because of how dangerous he was, Chuvalo won 3 rounds on cards officially!! and he had sporadic success landing to the body on rare occasions when Ali was trapped on the ropes but all in all id say it was a good performance by Ali against a tough opponent.

2nd fight was a much closer fight, albeit Muhammad Ali still won it clearly but not as decisive as the first. Chuvalo tested Ali more in the rematch.

Both good performances by Ali but he was hit more in the second fight but he was also tested more, so what do you reckon ?
he was better in their 1st fight

Ali more impressive against Chuvalo 1st or 2d time?

1st fight Ali just Boxed his way to a comfortable decision but he still had to Box well against Chuvalo because of how dangerous he was, Chuvalo won 3 rounds on cards officially!! and he had sporadic success landing to the body on rare occasions when Ali was trapped on the ropes but all in all id say it was a good performance by Ali against a tough opponent.

2nd fight was a much closer fight, albeit Muhammad Ali still won it clearly but not as decisive as the first. Chuvalo tested Ali more in the rematch.

Both good performances by Ali but he was hit more in the second fight but he was also tested more, so what do you reckon ?

Ali was much more impressive the first time because he was the most hated man in America at the time and the powers to be wanted him to lose the title. He fought with all this pressure on him and yet no one came close to taking away his title, except of course the government.

Ali was much more impressive in the 1st fight.The 2nd fight was close.

These 2 fights show how much better Ali was before his 3 1/2 year lay-off.

Ali came out with more damage in the first fight though. Chuvalo could have probably gone 50 rounds in that fight, he just never stopped plodding forward.

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Ali came out with more damage in the first fight though. Chuvalo could have probably gone 50 rounds in that fight, he just never stopped plodding forward.

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Yeah,Ali did pee blood for days after the 1st fight.

But he also won 13 rounds of the fight.

At times Ali "allowed" George to hit him in the kidney's,while telling him to hit harder.

Yeah,Ali did pee blood for days after the 1st fight.

But he also won 13 rounds of the fight.

At times Ali "allowed" George to hit him in the kidney's,while telling him to hit harder.

Then again no one ever had any difficulty outpointing Chuvalo. Ali won just about every round on the scorecards in their rematch as well but he never had an easy time with Chuvalo.

Chuvalo would have probably been the greatest in the late 1800's/early 1900's era...

Then again no one ever had any difficulty outpointing Chuvalo. Ali won just about every round on the scorecards in their rematch as well but he never had an easy time with Chuvalo.

Chuvalo would have probably been the greatest in the late 1800's/early 1900's era...

I like the look of Bonavena and Chuvalo, both tough guys who were physically very strong, both can take a shot, both gave Ali and Frazier tough fights but this is where old fighters get built up a bit more than they should be imo, im not implying you are guilty of that, but whilst Chuvalo and Bonavena were tough cats at the end of the day were they any different to someone like say................Ray Mercer ?

I dont think they were, but to hear the high regard people hold them in you would think they were.

If you put someone like Ray Mercer in their with Ali or Joe he is going to push them just as hard imo.

bonavena was a more complete fighter than mercer was.Mercer didn't learn anything until larry holmes schooled him and by then he was past his prime.bonavena was an underrated counter puncher with power in both hands and a respected body puncher with a very good chin.Oscar bonavena got robbed against frazier the first time around,he bullied frazier on the inside and countered him from the outside also knocking him down twice

I like the look of Bonavena and Chuvalo, both tough guys who were physically very strong, both can take a shot, both gave Ali and Frazier tough fights but this is where old fighters get built up a bit more than they should be imo, im not implying you are guilty of that, but whilst Chuvalo and Bonavena were tough cats at the end of the day were they any different to someone like say................Ray Mercer ?

I dont think they were, but to hear the high regard people hold them in you would think they were.

If you put someone like Ray Mercer in their with Ali or Joe he is going to push them just as hard imo.

Mercer was a tough, tough guy but I can't see Bonavena or Chuvalo ever being discouraged to the extent that he was in some of his fights. He was basically begging Ferguson to lay down and had no answers for Larry Holmes. He was lucky to draw with journeyman Marion Wilson.

Then somehow he managed to pull out two of his career best performances against Holyfield and Lewis... Just a very inconsistent fighter, Mercer was. Still, I'm not sure if Chuvalo or Bonavena are generally rated any better than Mercer is.

Chuvalo was simply inhumanly tough and had a great body attack.
Mercer had a very good jab which he troubled Lewis and Holyfield with.
Bonavena had very good counter punching/inside fighting skills.

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[QUOTE=TheGreatA;5795358]Mercer was a tough, tough guy but I can't see Bonavena or Chuvalo ever being discouraged to the extent that he was in some of his fights. He was basically begging Ferguson to lay down and had no answers for Larry Holmes. He was lucky to draw with journeyman Marion Wilson.

Then somehow he managed to pull out two of his career best performances against Holyfield and Lewis... Just a very inconsistent fighter, Mercer was. Still, I'm not sure if Chuvalo or Bonavena are generally rated any better than Mercer is.

Chuvalo was simply inhumanly tough and had a great body attack.
Mercer had a very good jab which he troubled Lewis and Holyfield with.
Bonavena had very good counter punching/inside fighting skills.


Yeah he was terribly inconsistent. If the Mercer that fought Cooper, Lewis, Witherspoon, Holyfield shows up though, you are in for a rough night :boxing:


Not to say they are rated better, but they get talked about more if you know what i mean. I dare say some do rate them higher though Because!! they fought Ali and Joe.

Yeah i noticed his body attack against Ali, especially the first fight. What struck me about Chuvalo more than anything was his physical strength, he pushed Joe Frazier back, Joe was actually trying to Box a little :lol1:

Yeah he was terribly inconsistent. If the Mercer that fought Cooper, Lewis, Witherspoon, Holyfield shows up though, you are in for a rough night :boxing:


Not to say they are rated better, but they get talked about more if you know what i mean. I dare say some do rate them higher though Because!! they fought Ali and Joe.

Yeah i noticed his body attack against Ali, especially the first fight. What struck me about Chuvalo more than anything was his physical strength, he pushed Joe Frazier back, Joe was actually trying to Box a little :lol1:

Chuvalo I believe was a weight-lifter which made him very strong but also very slow. He still claims to lift more than 400 lbs at 70+ years of age.

Agreed that Chuvalo and Bonavena might be more known because they fought Ali but then again you get the "Mercer was bigger, stronger, more modern" argument every once in a while.

Chuvalo I believe was a weight-lifter which made him very strong but also very slow. He still claims to lift more than 400 lbs at 70+ years of age.

Agreed that Chuvalo and Bonavena might be more known because they fought Ali but then again you get the "Mercer was bigger, stronger, more modern" argument every once in a while.


That does not surprise me because they guy was built like OX, that does surprise me but i can believe it, thats impressive for a 70+ year old.

Are you one of those people that believe fighters were physically tougher back then ?

That does not surprise me because they guy was built like OX, that does surprise me but i can believe it, thats impressive for a 70+ year old.

Are you one of those people that believe fighters were physically tougher back then ?

I think it's always up to the individual, not everyone was tough "back in the day" either but I do think that the rules especially in the very early days of boxing made it more possible for tougher fighters to succeed over better boxers.

When a fight goes 45 rounds, it's usually up to who can take more punishment than the other. Even changing 15 rounds to 12 rounds has made a difference.

As an example when Jermain Taylor twice beat Hopkins in 12 round bouts I was left questioning how he would've done in a 15 round fight, or if he had a young, hungry opponent against him instead of a 40 year old who was pacing himself for the final rounds. It came as no surprise to me when he ran out of gas against Pavlik and Froch.

Not only did you have to be able to take it in the ring and go 15 rounds but you also couldn't be injury-prone if you wanted to make any money out of boxing. Someone like Ray Robinson could fight several times a month and often went into the ring with injuries as well, otherwise you wouldn't have made a living out of it.

It's tough to see a fighter with brittle hands like Mayweather succeeding too well in that era despite his skills.

Now someone like George Chuvalo was extra-ordinary in his abilities to take punishment but we have had modern examples in fighters like Oliver McCall and Ray Mercer. McCall would have likely beaten some of the fighters he fought in 15 round bouts (for example Bruno), Mercer may have beaten Lennox Lewis.

I think it's always up to the individual, not everyone was tough "back in the day" either but I do think that the rules especially in the very early days of boxing made it more possible for tougher fighters to succeed over better boxers.

When a fight goes 45 rounds, it's usually up to who can take more punishment than the other. Even changing 15 rounds to 12 rounds has made a difference.

As an example when Jermain Taylor twice beat Hopkins in 12 round bouts I was left questioning how he would've done in a 15 round fight, or if he had a young, hungry opponent against him instead of a 40 year old who was pacing himself for the final rounds. It came as no surprise to me when he ran out of gas against Pavlik and Froch.

Not only did you have to be able to take it in the ring and go 15 rounds but you also couldn't be injury-prone if you wanted to make any money out of boxing. Someone like Ray Robinson could fight several times a month and often went into the ring with injuries as well, otherwise you wouldn't have made a living out of it.

It's tough to see a fighter with brittle hands like Mayweather succeeding too well in that era despite his skills.

Now someone like George Chuvalo was extra-ordinary in his abilities to take punishment but we have had modern examples in fighters like Oliver McCall and Ray Mercer. McCall would have likely beaten some of the fighters he fought in 15 round bouts (for example Bruno), Mercer may have beaten Lennox Lewis.


Excellent post.

Ive always been of the opinion that skill, techniques have improved so much because 12 round fighting is more conducive to Boxing and moving rather than trying to outlast someone or catch up to them in a 15 rounder.


I always say Arguello was a 15 round fighter.

Excellent post.

Ive always been of the opinion that skill, techniques have improved so much because 12 round fighting is more conducive to Boxing and moving rather than trying to outlast someone or catch up to them in a 15 rounder.


I always say Arguello was a 15 round fighter.

There were 15 round fighters who could move and box the whole way,not relying on outlasting the other fighters.

There were 15 round fighters who could move and box the whole way,not relying on outlasting the other fighters.

I dont think i said there weren't.