very interesting fight..

discuss

i think its a pretty one sided event....

fraziers style doesnt serve him well against a taller guy with a good reach and stiff jab....

i can Klitschko by stoppage mid to late...

frazier would have ripped the Wlad of 04 apart inside the first 7 rounds unfortunately,suspect stamina,suspect chin however the Wlad of current state stops him inside of 5 rounds,Wlad's fights are boring and cautious because his opponents offer no real form of attack.frazier would come straight come forward like he always does and he will feel Wlads power and he will go down time and time again until the ref stops it,wlads power is undeniable,greater than most past heavtweights and fraziers suspect chin simply cannot take real power

actually come to think of it this fight would never have taken place as wlad meets the criteria for the type of opponent frazier regularly avoided in his prime

frazier would have ripped the Wlad of 04 apart inside the first 7 rounds unfortunately,suspect stamina,suspect chin however the Wlad of current state stops him inside of 5 rounds,Wlad's fights are boring and cautious because his opponents offer no real form of attack.frazier would come straight come forward like he always does and he will feel Wlads power and he will go down time and time again until the ref stops it,wlads power is undeniable,greater than most past heavtweights and fraziers suspect chin simply cannot take real power

actually come to think of it this fight would never have taken place as wlad meets the criteria for the type of opponent frazier regularly avoided in his prime

why are you saying wlad? this is vitali am talking about. NOT WLAD!

Looks like I misread it..oh well I guess it just depends who quits first

I think Vitali would do a similar job on Joe Frazier as George Foreman did..............but not quite as quickly.

Vitali has a good chin and a very heavy punch. The size differential is huge, I cant see Frazier winning this.

Frazier would have a chance against Wlad though. His chin isn't too sturdy and has had stamina/pacing problems affect his performances at times in the past.

Looks like I misread it..oh well I guess it just depends who quits first
Knob!... Not so smart once you make a 24 carrot cunt of yourself are you? Whoever quits first.. What kind of answer is that?

On topic.. I invisage a slug fest with Vitali winning by late stoppage.. Frazier had a tendency to close around the eyes.. I can see this one ending specifically because of that... Klitschko's right doing the damage..

I think Vitali would do a similar job on Joe Frazier as George Foreman did..............but not quite as quickly.

Vitali has a good chin and a very heavy punch. The size differential is huge, I cant see Frazier winning this.

Frazier would have a chance against Wlad though. His chin isn't too sturdy and has had stamina/pacing problems affect his performances at times in the past.
mismatch -- Frazier brutally butchers Vitali coming inside bobing-and-weaving landing brutal body punches on Vitali also landing bone-crunching left hooks upstairs, i see Frazier dropping Vitali in the 7th round with a big left hook and Vitali taking the full count... Frazier was at his peak from 66 to 71 when he lost to Foreman he had been in and won the greatest prize-fight in the history of boxing March 8th 1971 vs Muhammad Ali taking a terrifying beating over 15rds from the much bigger and faster Ali yet Frazier was able to withstand the assault and absorb over 1200+ punches to win the fight, When 2yrs later Frazier lost to Foreman he was only a shell of the fighter he once was, he was just back from a World Tour with his Blues Band "The Knockouts" and weighed 15lbs heavier than he had against Ali... Frazier was grossly out of shape and was floored 6 times before being stopped "on his feet" by the destructive Foreman... Vitali Klitschko brings nothing to the dance that would bother Joe Frazier.. Frazier in his prime hammered 6ft 4in 250lbs Buster Mathis to a pulp, Mathis was far more skilled than any of the Klitschko`s ...... Frazier KO7

Knob!... Not so smart once you make a 24 carrot cunt of yourself are you? Whoever quits first.. What kind of answer is that?

Vitali Klitschko vs Chris byrd
Muhammad ali vs Joe frazier lll

just for future reference.....You Prick

Hi Sonnybox, I see this is another one we dont agree on. You re obviously a Frazier fan, so am I. I would be rooting for him, but if you thought Ali looked big compared to Frazier Vitali would dwarf him.

I dont really rate the Buster Mathis analogy either, he was no where near as tall and his weight was reflected in his flab levels. Vitali is supremely conditioned.

I agree that peak Frazier was not what turned up to face Foreman, I just cant favour Frazier in this particular matchup. Getting his left hook to make contact with a chin so much higher (8-9 inches) when Vitali has a ridiculous reach advantage is a tough ask. Frazier would almost have to jump up...and thats if he got close enough!

Would Frazier be able to make contact to Vitali's body with any regularity? The big guy is pretty nimble around the ring and would surely bomb from a distance. I agree with Mickey's assessment that Frazier may well suffer from damage to his eyes.

I'd love to be wrong here, Frazier is a legend. If it makes you any happier Sonnybox I'd favour Frazier over a downsized Vitali (maybe 6ft 2 and 210 pounds). Hee hee

Vitali Klitschko vs Chris byrd
Muhammad ali vs Joe frazier lll

just for future reference.....You Prick
They didn't quit.. Both were pulled out by their corners.. Fraziers eyes were shut & Vitaly had a torn rotator cuff.. Why discredit top fighters like that?
Makes you look more stupid every time..

Hi Sonnybox, I see this is another one we dont agree on. You re obviously a Frazier fan, so am I. I would be rooting for him, but if you thought Ali looked big compared to Frazier Vitali would dwarf him.

I dont really rate the Buster Mathis analogy either, he was no where near as tall and his weight was reflected in his flab levels. Vitali is supremely conditioned.

I agree that peak Frazier was not what turned up to face Foreman, I just cant favour Frazier in this particular matchup. Getting his left hook to make contact with a chin so much higher (8-9 inches) when Vitali has a ridiculous reach advantage is a tough ask. Frazier would almost have to jump up...and thats if he got close enough!

Would Frazier be able to make contact to Vitali's body with any regularity? The big guy is pretty nimble around the ring and would surely bomb from a distance. I agree with Mickey's assessment that Frazier may well suffer from damage to his eyes.

I'd love to be wrong here, Frazier is a legend. If it makes you any happier Sonnybox I'd favour Frazier over a downsized Vitali (maybe 6ft 2 and 210 pounds). Hee hee

same old story.. he is to big etc etc etc "Rubbish" Frazier at the tail-end of his career out-punched and beat 6ft 5ins Joe Bugner who was far better skilled than Vitali Klitschko, i was at the fight and as the rounds wore on it was clear to see Bugners body was changing colour due to the murderous body punching from Frazier.. Buster Mathis was NOT all flab, he was a huge man with excellent boxing skills.. Vitali Klitschko has never been in with a fighter of Joe Frazier`s calibre or greatness.. if an old Frazier can beat Bugner he can beat Vitali.

Hi Sonnybox, I see this is another one we dont agree on. You re obviously a Frazier fan, so am I. I would be rooting for him, but if you thought Ali looked big compared to Frazier Vitali would dwarf him.

I dont really rate the Buster Mathis analogy either, he was no where near as tall and his weight was reflected in his flab levels. Vitali is supremely conditioned.

I agree that peak Frazier was not what turned up to face Foreman, I just cant favour Frazier in this particular matchup. Getting his left hook to make contact with a chin so much higher (8-9 inches) when Vitali has a ridiculous reach advantage is a tough ask. Frazier would almost have to jump up...and thats if he got close enough!

Would Frazier be able to make contact to Vitali's body with any regularity? The big guy is pretty nimble around the ring and would surely bomb from a distance. I agree with Mickey's assessment that Frazier may well suffer from damage to his eyes.

I'd love to be wrong here, Frazier is a legend. If it makes you any happier Sonnybox I'd favour Frazier over a downsized Vitali (maybe 6ft 2 and 210 pounds). Hee hee

Frazier always excelled against taller fighters, Ramos 6ft 4in, Bugner 6ft 5ins, Mathis 6ft 4ins, Ali 6ft 4ins, Tony Doyle 6ft 5ins.. all decent fighters and all as tall as Lennox Lewis... Vitali also has very suspect stamina and he also fights with zero guard, i see this fight being billed as "TIMBER" zzzzzz

i think its a pretty one sided event....

fraziers style doesnt serve him well against a taller guy with a good reach and stiff jab....

i can Klitschko by stoppage mid to late...

why do people think fighters with good jabs give short pressure fighters trouble? Ali had one of the best jabs in the game and Frazier still managed to break through.

Tyson still broke through Holmes jab.

These guys spend their entire career getting around a jab. A jab isn't going to do anything to these guys.

Frazier would get on the inside and Vitali would not know what to do.

Frazier always excelled against taller fighters, Ramos 6ft 4in, Bugner 6ft 5ins, Mathis 6ft 4ins, Ali 6ft 4ins, Tony Doyle 6ft 5ins.. all decent fighters and all as tall as Lennox Lewis... Vitali also has very suspect stamina and he also fights with zero guard, i see this fight being billed as "TIMBER" zzzzzz

Ali was 6'3

Ali was 6'3
incorrect... when Muhammad Ali was interested in fighting Wilt Chamberlain, Howard Cosell had both of them in the studio and Angelo Dundee measured the height of both men, Muhammad Ali was 6ft 4 & 1/2ins tall with his shoes on, take off the half inch for the shoes and Muhammad Ali is 6ft 4ins, when Ali and Foreman came face to face in the ring in their title fight it was clear to see that Ali was the taller man.. do not believe what you read on boxrec they claim Gerry Cooney is 6ft 5ins when in fact he is 6ft 7ins

Hi Sonnybox, I'm so jealous of all the fights you've attended. Wow, lucky guy! I'm still sticking to my guns on Vitali though.

I dont know what Boxrec is but all the weath of statistics I have state that Ali was 6ft 3. I'd rather stick to that than the findings of a show and approximate estimates while a fighter has his shoes on! I may be wrong but some of those other height stats seem a bit higher than I remember seeing.

Joe Bugner may have more raw skill that Vitali, but the gap isn't much. As for conditioning, guile and workrate I'd favour Vitali and down to punch resistance and punch power Vitali walks away with it by a big margin.

I still cant get over the gap in height too, 6ft 8 is so much taller than Frazier and lets be honest now, Frazier did not have the most amazing chin and got hit hard in most of his fights, whereas Vitali has terrific power.

You also say:

'Vitali also has very suspect stamina and he also fights with zero guard'

Are you sure you re not mixing this up with Wlad? Now Wlad has shown suspect stamina and has left his chin out to dry (not to mention being knocked out a few times). Whereas I cant actually recall Vitali having been down in a fight (although I think he has), his chin is very good. He took some very hard blows from Lewis and I've never seen stamina problems.

I know I'm a bit like a stuck record when it comes to me often favouring much bigger guys (who can fight well like Lewis, Bowe, Vitali) over the legends of the past such as Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey. The problem is, that history shows us that a good big un often beats a good little un. If heavyweights that are under six foot and weigh around the 200Lb mark could win titles today you'd have thought that more than one would have managed it in the last three decades. Tyson is that one and his feet and hands were far faster than Frazier's.

Foreman showed us what happens when Frazier gets hit hard and Foreman would have beat any version of Frazier..........maybe not in two rounds, but he'd surely win. I can just see Vitali doing the same thing.

Oh and I never said that Buster Mathis was not skilled or that he was 'all flab'. Hell the guy was expected to be a gold medal Olympic champ.

You've got to admit though..............he was pretty damn flabby.

They didn't quit.. Both were pulled out by their corners.. Fraziers eyes were shut & Vitaly had a torn rotator cuff.. Why discredit top fighters like that?
Makes you look more stupid every time..


You're a damned fool,They both quit you ignorant dolt.both men asked their trainers to cover their backsides the humiliation of quiting themselves

they quit in disgrace and their careers and legacy shows as such

You're a damned fool,They both quit you ignorant dolt.both men asked their trainers to cover their backsides the humiliation of quiting themselves

they quit in disgrace and their careers and legacy shows as such

haha!!! depends who quits first....

One thing a lot of fighters seem to lack now is intensity. That would give Klitschko problems in itself. Very hard fight for Frazier though.

incorrect... when Muhammad Ali was interested in fighting Wilt Chamberlain, Howard Cosell had both of them in the studio and Angelo Dundee measured the height of both men, Muhammad Ali was 6ft 4 & 1/2ins tall with his shoes on, take off the half inch for the shoes and Muhammad Ali is 6ft 4ins, when Ali and Foreman came face to face in the ring in their title fight it was clear to see that Ali was the taller man.. do not believe what you read on boxrec they claim Gerry Cooney is 6ft 5ins when in fact he is 6ft 7ins

Ali is listed at 6'3 everywhere, if he's 6'4..then Foreman must be 6'5 because he looked taller than Ali when they fought.

Hi Sonnybox, I'm so jealous of all the fights you've attended. Wow, lucky guy! I'm still sticking to my guns on Vitali though.

I dont know what Boxrec is but all the weath of statistics I have state that Ali was 6ft 3. I'd rather stick to that than the findings of a show and approximate estimates while a fighter has his shoes on! I may be wrong but some of those other height stats seem a bit higher than I remember seeing.

Joe Bugner may have more raw skill that Vitali, but the gap isn't much. As for conditioning, guile and workrate I'd favour Vitali and down to punch resistance and punch power Vitali walks away with it by a big margin.

I still cant get over the gap in height too, 6ft 8 is so much taller than Frazier and lets be honest now, Frazier did not have the most amazing chin and got hit hard in most of his fights, whereas Vitali has terrific power.

You also say:

'Vitali also has very suspect stamina and he also fights with zero guard'

Are you sure you re not mixing this up with Wlad? Now Wlad has shown suspect stamina and has left his chin out to dry (not to mention being knocked out a few times). Whereas I cant actually recall Vitali having been down in a fight (although I think he has), his chin is very good. He took some very hard blows from Lewis and I've never seen stamina problems.

I know I'm a bit like a stuck record when it comes to me often favouring much bigger guys (who can fight well like Lewis, Bowe, Vitali) over the legends of the past such as Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey. The problem is, that history shows us that a good big un often beats a good little un. If heavyweights that are under six foot and weigh around the 200Lb mark could win titles today you'd have thought that more than one would have managed it in the last three decades. Tyson is that one and his feet and hands were far faster than Frazier's.

Foreman showed us what happens when Frazier gets hit hard and Foreman would have beat any version of Frazier..........maybe not in two rounds, but he'd surely win. I can just see Vitali doing the same thing.

always thought Vitali was 6'6..he didn't seem that much taller than Lewis.

Joe Frazier is my fav out of Ali, Foreman, Holmes and all the other Norton etc, but Joe is aways gonna have trouble with a big man because he is tailor made for a bigger man, he comes straight at you and gives you a better opportunity to makes your size and strength advantage a major factor in the fight.


If Joe was a bit of a mover then you never know but he isn't.

Joe Frazier is my fav out of Ali, Foreman, Holmes and all the other Norton etc, but Joe is aways gonna have trouble with a big man because he is tailor made for a bigger man, he comes straight at you and gives you a better opportunity to makes your size and strength advantage a major factor in the fight.


If Joe was a bit of a mover then you never know but he isn't.

he took down a lot of big men. Not everyone is George Foreman

he took down a lot of big men. Not everyone is George Foreman

I dont like his chances thats all i will say.

Joe did well against tall movers, but pressure fighters won't do well against tall long power punchers who want to fight planted.
Foreman's Ideal fight was to stand stock still in the middle of the ring and use that platform to brutalize his opponant with raw power.
Frazier wanted you to keep retreating since he generated power off of movement. Frazier's a better fighter than Klitschko but it's not a great match up for him style wise.

If frazier could make it past the first 4 rounds he could have a chance, his body attack and of course left hook would be trouble for anyone.

If Vitiali came out in the mindset he wanted to leave early he could very well do so, cause Frazier was like Marciano, took him a little while to warm up.

Its a toss up, either Vitiali stops him early (Frazier did NOT have a glass chin, if he did he wouldnt of been champion to begin with), or Frazier gets to him late.

Joe did well against tall movers, but pressure fighters won't do well against tall long power punchers who want to fight planted.
Foreman's Ideal fight was to stand stock still in the middle of the ring and use that platform to brutalize his opponant with raw power.
Frazier wanted you to keep retreating since he generated power off of movement. Frazier's a better fighter than Klitschko but it's not a great match up for him style wise.

George had a huge uppercut. Vitali doesn't. Frazier would beat Vitali. Vitali couldn't stop Sam Peter who ate his punches willingly. He quit.

always thought Vitali was 6'6..he didn't seem that much taller than Lewis.

I believe Wlad is 6'6" (though he describes himself as 6'5".) Vitali is clearly the taller of the two brothers. He didn't fight very tall against Lewis, which is why they looked about the same height. I'm up in the air about this matchup, would've liked to have seen Frazier fight Norton, I know Foreman was an absolute beast back then so you can't really use those fights. Not an easy fight for either guy, that's for sure. Frazier is greater though.

Tough call.

I'm obviously a huge Joe Frazier fan and my heart is screaming that Frazier wins this one, but my head is telling me something entirely different.

I like Frazier's chances against Wladimir a lot better than against Vitali. Wlad has spurts where he's simply intent to work behind the jab, and Frazier got around the jab better than any other pressure fighter I've ever seen.

Sure ; he got tagged with a lot of them as well. But they never really seemed to phase him, he could eat them all night long if he had to.

Against Wlad I see Frazier chopping him down.

Against Vitali though, I see Vitali doing the chopping.

going by the replys on this subgect we should now rewrite the heavyweight ATG list and start with
No1 Valuev - 7ft 1ins
No2 Terrell - 6ft 7ins
No3 Vitali - 6ft 7ins
No4 Willard - 6ft 7ins
No5 Carnera - 6ft 6ins
No6 Bowe - 6ft 6ins
No7 Bonecrusher 6ft 5ins
No8 Foreman - 6ft 5ins
No9 Lewis 6ft 5ins
No10 Tucker 6ft 5ins

The above 10 fighters easily beat Frazier, Ali, Holyfield, Tyson, Louis, Dempsey, Johnson, Marciano, Charles simply because they are far to big and tall ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaa...Valuev is the greatest heavyweight in the history of boxing

One thing a lot of fighters seem to lack now is intensity. That would give Klitschko problems in itself. Very hard fight for Frazier though.
So true... You're one of the few people who realize this..

going by the replys on this subgect we should now rewrite the heavyweight ATG list and start with
No1 Valuev - 7ft 1ins
No2 Terrell - 6ft 7ins
No3 Vitali - 6ft 7ins
No4 Willard - 6ft 7ins
No5 Carnera - 6ft 6ins
No6 Bowe - 6ft 6ins
No7 Bonecrusher 6ft 5ins
No8 Foreman - 6ft 5ins
No9 Lewis 6ft 5ins
No10 Tucker 6ft 5ins

The above 10 fighters easily beat Frazier, Ali, Holyfield, Tyson, Louis, Dempsey, Johnson, Marciano, Charles simply because they are far to big and tall ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaa...Valuev is the greatest heavyweight in the history of boxing
Forget the Ambling Alp.. Small fry!.. Buddy Baer was 6 feet & 6 & a half inches, & would'a beat Carnera the same way Max did..

You're a damned fool,They both quit you ignorant dolt.both men asked their trainers to cover their backsides the humiliation of quiting themselves

they quit in disgrace and their careers and legacy shows as such
Your a single cell embryo who can only calculate 1+1 = 1 dimensional opinion, shared between 2 alts.. Your brain isn't capable of retaining more than 2.. That's why you only have 2 alts.. If you were clever, you'd have more.. Dimwit!

Tough call.

I'm obviously a huge Joe Frazier fan and my heart is screaming that Frazier wins this one, but my head is telling me something entirely different.

I like Frazier's chances against Wladimir a lot better than against Vitali. Wlad has spurts where he's simply intent to work behind the jab, and Frazier got around the jab better than any other pressure fighter I've ever seen.

Sure ; he got tagged with a lot of them as well. But they never really seemed to phase him, he could eat them all night long if he had to.

Against Wlad I see Frazier chopping him down.

Against Vitali though, I see Vitali doing the chopping.


.......................Me to.

.......................Me to.
Makes 3 of us..

Makes 3 of us..


:boxing::boxing:

You're a damned fool,They both quit you ignorant dolt.both men asked their trainers to cover their backsides the humiliation of quiting themselves

they quit in disgrace and their careers and legacy shows as such

"Joe," said his manager, Eddie Futch, "I'm going to stop it."

"No, no, Eddie, ya can't do that to me," Frazier pleaded, his thick tongue barely getting the words out. He started to rise.

"You couldn't see in the last two rounds," said Futch. "What makes ya think ya gonna see in the 15th?"

"I want him, boss," said Frazier.

"Sit down, son," said Futch, pressing his hand on Frazier's shoulder. "It's all over. No one will ever forget what you did here today."

(Frazier did NOT have a glass chin, if he did he wouldnt of been champion to begin with),

His chin was tried,His chin was tested and his chin failed,Joe fraziers supporters don't wish to admit it but the man had a suspect chin.Since when has a glass jaw prohibited success in the ring? Many champions have given us lol moments when knocked down by the faintest of punches

Makes 3 of us..

:bukkake:


Your a single cell embryo who can only calculate 1+1 = 1 dimensional opinion, shared between 2 alts.. Your brain isn't capable of retaining more than 2.. That's why you only have 2 alts.. If you were clever, you'd have more.. Dimwit!

I'm still waiting for such proof fruitcake




"Joe," said his manager, Eddie Futch, "I'm going to stop it."

"No, no, Eddie, ya can't do that to me," Frazier pleaded, his thick tongue barely getting the words out. He started to rise.

"You couldn't see in the last two rounds," said Futch. "What makes ya think ya gonna see in the 15th?"

"I want him, boss," said Frazier.

"Sit down, son," said Futch, pressing his hand on Frazier's shoulder. "It's all over. No one will ever forget what you did here today."


It's well documented how much futch felt for frazier,He was by far his most favourite pupil.He would never have frazier disgrace himself by quitting infront of the whole world,futch worked on the fly and told frazier to follow his lead and it lead to frazier looking like the warrior he never was

There are somethings you can't learn through internet forums and books

His chin was tried,His chin was tested and his chin failed,Joe fraziers supporters don't wish to admit it but the man had a suspect chin.Since when has a glass jaw prohibited success in the ring? Many champions have given us lol moments when knocked down by the faintest of punches



:bukkake:




I'm still waiting for such proof fruitcake







It's well documented how much futch felt for frazier,He was by far his most favourite pupil.He would never have frazier disgrace himself by quitting infront of the whole world,futch worked on the fly and told frazier to follow his lead and it lead to frazier looking like the warrior he never was

There are somethings you can't learn through internet forums and books
The proof is in your demeanor Nutcrumpet.. Would you & you're shirt lifting accomplice like to start a thread proving otherwise? I Don't think so, so Don't tempt me...

His chin was tried,His chin was tested and his chin failed,Joe fraziers supporters don't wish to admit it but the man had a suspect chin.Since when has a glass jaw prohibited success in the ring? Many champions have given us lol moments when knocked down by the faintest of punches



:bukkake:




I'm still waiting for such proof fruitcake







It's well documented how much futch felt for frazier,He was by far his most favourite pupil.He would never have frazier disgrace himself by quitting infront of the whole world,futch worked on the fly and told frazier to follow his lead and it lead to frazier looking like the warrior he never was

There are somethings you can't learn through internet forums and books


Depends how you define glass chin, glass chin is a fighter that does not have the ability to recover............Junior Jones, but a fighter who goes down but gets up and gathers himself to win fights cant be considered to have a glass jaw.

JMM goes down on a regular basis but he still gets upto win fights, or at least make them competitive.

Frazier was stopped by his corner and it was Ali who was ready to quit apparently.

well theres a few things we have to take into consideration, Fraziers lighting fast ability to duck punched (as shown in Ali - Frazier 1) if Frazier could dodge Ali's punches then he should have no problem with the slower Vitali.

But Vitali has that extreme height advantage, sure frazier fought many taller fighters but non quite as tall as vitali. if Frazier could get on the inside then i could see Vitali being dropped in the mid rounds considering frazier kept up his non stop constant pace and brutal body attack. I could see Vitali's jaw eventually dropping and leaving him wide open for Fraziers trademark left hook.

We also have to take into the fact that Vitali is used to going 12 rounds (mandatory WBC rules) instead of Fraziers time when they went 15 rounds. So i can see Frazier being more conditioned for the 12 round fight. Which may mean he could up his pace even more, and to think of that i could see Frazier being unstoppable.

It must also be taken into fact that Vitali has never fought someone with such good condition like joe had, to many present day heavyweights throw like 4 punches then slow dance for the rest of the round. Frazier is one of those fighters that never stops coming forward and never stops punching (not including the foreman fight)

But! if Vitali was able to keep Frazier on the outside and pepper him with lefts and rights like there going out of style, i could see Frazier being stopped or KO'd early.

Frazier also had a tendancy to swell like a beast, if Vitali could land even a decent amount of punches on Frazier then i could see it being stopped late.

Vitali also has power with the right hand and if it was to land cleanly enough i could see Frazier being hurt badly and possibly going down in early rounds.

The final thing to consider is Fraziers heart, something we have not seen tested in Vitali yet. Frazier is the type of man that would take a beating and ask for more. Againts the hardest hitting heavyweight ever, george foreman: frazier was dropped 6 times and everytime he forced himself to his feet, the ref had to stop the fight to ensure that joe would not kill himself. Unless Vitali puts Frazier clean out (which i dont think has ever been done) then i could see Frazier standing up and making a comeback in later rounds

Either way it depends on how the fight goes down, if Vitali can move and stay on the outside or if Frazier can get on the inside: Thats what determines the outcome of this fight

There is a huge difference in a good chin and good recovery.Someone like Ken norton didn't have have as bad as chin as is claimed,his recovery was just incredibly slow,Marquez has a poor chin but excellent recovery.Someone like Macro Antonio barrera has neither

frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw) but he never had a particularly good one either.I guess you can give him credit for ali failing to knock him down over the course of 41 rounds once but only occasionaly during his career did ali ever throw that big right hand he was capable of throwing such as in the eleventh round against ron lyle,the second round against joe frazier of their second fight(could he have finished him off? ),and the sixth round against norton off their second fight overall ali was not a puncher in the slightest

frazier fought the first true big puncher of his career and not only went down,He went down over and over and over again in a embarrassing display.Many of foremans shots never really landed clean either

The story of frazier wanting to fight on and ali begging his corner to quit is used to romanticize the ali-frazier feud just as how we purposely forget how the second fight turned out is used to romanticize their feud.We wish to remember two warriors fighting to the death,we wish to remember ali apparently collapsed in the middle of the ring although in truth he was merely sat on his stool having his gloves cut off.boxing loves drama and it loves the what if's,but in truth most is fabrication just like all boxing folklore

There is a huge difference in a good chin and good recovery.Someone like Ken norton didn't have have as bad as chin as is claimed,his recovery was just incredibly slow,Marquez has a poor chin but excellent recovery.Someone like Macro Antonio barrera has neither

frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw) but he never had a particularly good one either.I guess you can give him credit for ali failing to knock him down over the course of 41 rounds once but only occasionaly during his career did ali ever throw that big right hand he was capable of throwing such as in the eleventh round against ron lyle,the second round against joe frazier of their second fight(could he have finished him off? ),and the sixth round against norton off their second fight overall ali was not a puncher in the slightest

frazier fought the first true big puncher of his career and not only went down,He went down over and over and over again in a embarrassing display.Many of foremans shots never really landed clean either

The story of frazier wanting to fight on and ali begging his corner to quit is used to romanticize the ali-frazier feud just as how we purposely forget how the second fight turned out is used to romanticize their feud.We wish to remember two warriors fighting to the death,we wish to remember ali apparently collapsed in the middle of the ring although in truth he was merely sat on his stool having his gloves cut off.boxing loves drama and it loves the what if's,but in truth most is fabrication just like all boxing folklore


frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw)

That is all i needed to know.

It's well documented how much futch felt for frazier,He was by far his most favourite pupil.He would never have frazier disgrace himself by quitting infront of the whole world,futch worked on the fly and told frazier to follow his lead and it lead to frazier looking like the warrior he never was

There are somethings you can't learn through internet forums and books

And how would you know that? It's all your speculation.

Did Frazier ever show any quit in any of his fights?

In my view both Frazier and Futch knew it would be hazardous to take any more punishment. But Frazier was willing to go on for as long as he could, Futch simply did his job and called the fight off.


frazier doesn't have a glass chin(jaw) but he never had a particularly good one either.I guess you can give him credit for ali failing to knock him down over the course of 41 rounds once but only occasionaly during his career did ali ever throw that big right hand he was capable of throwing such as in the eleventh round against ron lyle,the second round against joe frazier of their second fight(could he have finished him off? ),and the sixth round against norton off their second fight overall ali was not a puncher in the slightest

frazier fought the first true big puncher of his career and not only went down,He went down over and over and over again in a embarrassing display.Many of foremans shots never really landed clean either

The story of frazier wanting to fight on and ali begging his corner to quit is used to romanticize the ali-frazier feud just as how we purposely forget how the second fight turned out is used to romanticize their feud.We wish to remember two warriors fighting to the death,we wish to remember ali apparently collapsed in the middle of the ring although in truth he was merely sat on his stool having his gloves cut off.boxing loves drama and it loves the what if's,but in truth most is fabrication just like all boxing folklore

Ali set his feet to throw bombs in the first couple of rounds of the first fight. Those were some of the most powerful punches I've ever seen him throw and Joe took them. In the 9th he landed a couple of left hooks the kind that had Oscar Bonavena down but they didn't slow Frazier down the slightest.

It's been said that Ali had doubts whether he could go on in the 10th round but decided to fight on. He closed Frazier's eye and threw everything he had at him in rounds 13 and 14.

I certainly think he would have come out for the 15th, especially because he had Dundee on his corner who would push him out if Ali even had any thoughts about quitting (just like in the first Liston fight).

Ali did fall down after the fight, but not in the dramatic fashion that is made out to be. Neither did he sit on his stool waiting to have his gloves cut off. He went on a knee to get some rest after a brutal fight and then held an interview very coherently.

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And how would you know that? It's all your speculation.

Did Frazier ever show any quit in any of his fights?

In my view both Frazier and Futch knew it would be hazardous to take any more punishment. But Frazier was willing to go on for as long as he could, Futch simply did his job and called the fight off.



Ali set his feet to throw bombs in the first couple of rounds of the first fight. Those were some of the most powerful punches I've ever seen him throw and Joe took them. In the 9th he landed a couple of left hooks the kind that had Oscar Bonavena down but they didn't slow Frazier down the slightest.

It's been said that Ali had doubts whether he could go on in the 10th round but decided to fight on. He closed Frazier's eye and threw everything he had at him in rounds 13 and 14.

I certainly think he would have come out for the 15th, especially because he had Dundee on his corner who would push him out if Ali even had any thoughts about quitting (just like in the first Liston fight).

Ali did fall down after the fight, but not in the dramatic fashion that is made out to be. Neither did he sit on his stool waiting to have his gloves cut off. He went on a knee to get some rest after a brutal fight and then held an interview very coherently.

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Great post.

Hi Sonnybox, thats a good list of big guys:

No1 Valuev - 7ft 1ins
No2 Terrell - 6ft 7ins
No3 Vitali - 6ft 7ins
No4 Willard - 6ft 7ins
No5 Carnera - 6ft 6ins
No6 Bowe - 6ft 6ins
No7 Bonecrusher 6ft 5ins
No8 Foreman - 6ft 5ins
No9 Lewis 6ft 5ins
No10 Tucker 6ft 5ins

Out of the above I rate Vitali, Bowe, Foreman and Lewis. They have all shown ATG qualities in my book. They are all murderous punchers with excellent records. Some have great boxing skills, others have speed, others have great chins.

I promise I will never pick any of the others on your list over a peak Frazier in a head to head. Ha ha!

I'm a keen boxing historian with a huge fight film collection. My assessments in head to head matches are based on the fights I have seen (often repeatedly!). I dont just pick the bigger guy in any given matchup.

Ali and Holmes are my heavyweight 1 & 2 ATG. Not the biggest guys or the hardest punchers by a long stretch.

i am also a big frazier fan, but this fight would wlad win, just because of his range and anything else