this list was done in 02.
1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Henry Armstrong
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Joe Louis
5.Roberto Duran
6.Willie Pep
7.Harry Greb
8.Benny Leonard
9.Sugar Ray Leonard
10.Pernell Whitaker
11.Carlos Monzon
12.Rocky Marciano
13.Ezzard Charles
14.Archie Moore
15.Sandy Saddler
16.Jack Dempsey
17.Marvin Hagler
18.Julio Cesar Chavez
19.Eder Jofre
20.Alexis Arguello
21.Barney Ross
22.Evander Holyfield
23.Ike Williams
24.Salvador Sanchez
25.George Foreman
26.Kid Gavilan
27.Larry Holmes
28.Mickey Walker
29.Ruben Olivares
30.Gene Tunney
31.Dick Tiger
32.Fighting Harada
33.Emile Griffith
34.Tony Canzoneri
35.Aaron Pryor
36.Pascual Perez
37.Miguel Canto
38.Manuel Ortiz
39.Charley Burley
40.Carmen Basilio
41.Michael Spinks
42.Joe Frazier
43.Khaosai Galaxy
44.Roy Jones Jr.
45.Tiger Flowers
46.Panama Al Brown
47.Kid Chocolate
48Joe Brown
49.Tommy Loughran
50.Bernard Hopkins
51.Felix Trinidad
52.Jake LaMotta
53.Lennox Lewis
54.Wilfredo Gomez
55.Bob Foster
56.Jose Napoles
57.Billy Conn
58.Jimmy McLarnin
59.Pancho Villa
60.Carlos Ortiz
61.Bob Montgomery
62.Freddie Miller
63.Benny Lynch
64.Beau Jack
65.Azumah Nelson
66.Eusebio Pedroza
67.Thomas Hearns
68.Wilfred Benitez
69.Antonio Cervantes
70.Ricardo Lopez
71.Sonny Liston
72.Mike Tyson
73.Vicente Saldivar
74.Gene Fullmer
75.Oscar De La Hoya
76.Carlos Zarate
77.Marcel Cerdan
78.Flash Elorde
79.Mike McCallum
80.Harold Johnson

what are your thoughts on this list?

for me Fighting Harada, Aaron Pryor , Miguel Canto, Carmen Basilio, Khaosai Galaxy, Joe Brown, Felix Trinidad, Bob Montgomery, Freddie Miller, Benny Lynch, Beau Jack, Azumah Nelson, Eusebio Pedroza and
Antonio Cervantes are all to high for my liking.

and Gene Tunney, Tony Canzoneri, Thomas Hearns, jake lamotta, wilfred benitez, Ricardo Lopez, and Marcel Cerdan are all to low.

Oh no..Some of the guys in the bottom 20 should at least be in the top 30.. Hearns, Benitez, Zarate, Tyson & arguably McCallum & Nelson to..
Olivares, Harada, Griffith & Tiger a bit too high also...

any more thoughts guys?

The ones that struck out the most as too high were Jack Dempsey and Aaron Pryor and too low was definitely Thomas Hearns.

The ones that struck out the most as too high were Jack Dempsey and Aaron Pryor and too low was definitely Thomas Hearns.

if you think demspey was high in this list, bert sugar had demspey number 9 on his atg list. i agree i always think dempsey shoundt be real high on lists

If its primarily based on resumes then Pernell is too high...Aaron Pryor is too high...and how the hell is Trinidad at 51 and DLH at 75?

I personally like ESPN's list better...

dempsey should be 1

if you think demspey was high in this list, bert sugar had demspey number 9 on his atg list. i agree i always think dempsey shoundt be real high on lists

Sugar loves him some Dempsey.

What stuck out more to me than him having Dempsey too high IMO was that he didn't have Michael Spinks in his top 100.

Spinks was only one of the greatest light-heavyweights ever, who also became the recognized HW champ of the world.

Why is tommy so low?

dempsey cleaned out the heavyweight division fighting at 180 pounds during the golden age of boxing. GOAT

I've noticed a couple of guys saying 'Fighting' Harada was much too high. I don't know about that fellas. Harada may be one of the most overlooked and underrated fighters of contemporary times. The guy was a bona fide madman in his time and he fought so many truly great fighters. I mean really great! I'm not sure how you could put him much lower than that if you actually examine what he did.

I was first introduced to him through my dad and Harada's amazing fight series with the Aussie's Lionel Rose and Johnny Famechon and as such he became one of my favourite fighters. The Rose fight was at his peak and the Famechon fight was towards the end when he moved up to try and capture his third divisional world title.

Before that though, let's look at his incredible record and who he beat.

His two biggest wins are of course over the legendary Eder Jofre. Jofre is of course one of the true ATG's and was number 19 on that list. In his entire career there was only one fighter he could not beat and that was Harada. Jofre's only two losses were both to Harada taking Jofre's record to 72-2. Even after he lost both those fights. Jofre went on to become the world FW champion moving up in weight and beating the ATG's Jose Legra and Vincente Saldivar, showing that was indeed still in his prime when he fought Harada.

Harada's second greatest win and his first world title at Flyweight is over one of Thailand's greatest fighters Pone Kingpetch. Kingpetch was the undisputed, unified Flyweight champion and one of that divisions greatest ever champions beating quite possibly the best fighter in that weight division ever twice, Pascual Perez. Kingpetch was a three time world champion and a truly legendary Flyweight fighter.

Apart from these great wins, his other title defense fights were against some truly amazing opposition and didn't take the soft road like some Japanese and Asian champions tended toward around that time. He fought by far the greatest opposition available.

Alan Rudkin had three title shots in his career and lost all. Saying that though is certainly no put down as very few would ever have beaten any of the fighters in each title shot. His title shots were against Harada, Lionel Rose and Ruben Olivares. Rudkin was one of the UK's best fighters and the top contender for a long time then. Some of his great wins were over the likes of Johnny Caldwell (world BW champion), and Walter McGowan (WBC Flyweight champ).
Jose Medel also never won a world title but was one of the greatest fighters of the BW division from the late fifties to the mid sixties. His title losses came to Eder Jofre and Harada. Some of his greatest wins include Harada (non title bout), Walter McGowan, Jose Lopez, Jesus Pimentel and Chuchu Castillo.
Bernado Caraballo was a great fighter. Another one of the best of that time who never won his title shot. His two were also against Jofre and Harada. Caraballo has beaten some of the great fighters of our time though, including Pacsual Perez, Antonio Herrera (who beat HOF'ers Ismael Laguna, Joe Brown, etc). His losses during his prime (non title losses) were only to HOF type fighters such as Ernesto Marcel, Chucho Castillo, Alfredo Marcano as he went unbeaten from 1960, apart from his one title loss to Jofre, to late 1967 when he then lost his last title shot to Harada.

Some other great non title wins of his include Antonio Herrera, Katsutoshi Aoki, and Ray Asis. He eventually lost his title to the great undisputed BW champion Lionel Rose, who was a stunningly skillful boxer with a very fast, slick counter punching style. After this, Harada moved up to challenge Johnny Famechon for his world FW title, won from Jose Legra. Famechon was an amazingly skilled defensive fighter who fought in the style that you see from Floyd Mayweather today using the shoulder roll to fend of attacks and create his own counter opportunities. His slick boxing and high counter output offset the aggressive Harada who lost a close, great first fight leading to a highly publicised rematch in Japan in which Famechon fought one of the best fights of his career with incredible skill, rarely seen today apart from from fighters such as Mayweather/Toney/Hopkins etc, and knocked Harada out for only the second time in his long career after a fantastic fight.

Ref: BennyST.... Good post.. Feel I may have underrated him..

I'm a big fan of dick tiger but he is too high in that company

dempsey cleaned out the heavyweight division fighting at 180 pounds during the golden age of boxing. GOATDempsey didn't clean out anything except his bar at closing time.

Tyson is ranked 72??!!
he deserves more
way more
not even under the 40s
the fact that he bitten Holyfield's ear
doesnt make him ranked 72
...........
Sonny Liston is ranked 71??!!
he knocked out Floyd Patterson twice
and they rank him as 71
...........
Lennox Lewis is ranked 52??!!!
even when I dont like Lewis alot
but he still knocked out Tyson fairly
..........
and Evander Holyfield is ranked 22??!!
if they ranked Tyson 72 because he bit Holyfield's ear
they must do the same to Holyfield
because he took steriods after all
and they ranked Lewis 52
while he defeated Holyfield
...........
it is my opinion after all
no need to agree or disagree
peace :boxing:

If its primarily based on resumes then Pernell is too high...Aaron Pryor is too high...and how the hell is Trinidad at 51 and DLH at 75?

I personally like ESPN's list better...

2002. Trinidad didn't get clowned by Winky Wright yet. And De La Hoya didn't become Middleweight Champion yet.

Glad this post has come back.. Thanks Obama..
Don't think I mentioned it on the History section..
It's where The Rings concerned..
About 5 months ago, I was doing some research on the HW journeyman, Rocky Sekorski (one of Foremans come back fodder).. Was spellbound, when Boxrec stated he was no 25 on The Ring's Greatest 100 Punchers of AT list.. I checked it out, & fvck me! It was true!... Considering Frank Bruno hadn't even made the list, I felt insensed, & emailed Douggie Fischer to take the piss a bit..
Well.. Needless to say, I never recieved either a thankyou or a reply, & haven't had much time for it or it's idiotic opinions, ever since.. As a point of interest though, Sekorski has since been removed, & Julian Jackson now, mysteriously sits there.. A joke in itself!... Furthermore, Bruno STILL doesn't make the list!.. So biased to US fighters, it's unnavigable..

Glad this post has come back.. Thanks Obama..
Don't think I mentioned it on the History section..
It's where The Rings concerned..
About 5 months ago, I was doing some research on the HW journeyman, Rocky Sekorski (one of Foremans come back fodder).. Was spellbound, when Boxrec stated he was no 25 on The Ring's Greatest 100 Punchers of AT list.. I checked it out, & fvck me! It was true!... Considering Frank Bruno hadn't even made the list, I felt insensed, & emailed Douggie Fischer to take the piss a bit..
Well.. Needless to say, I never recieved either a thankyou or a reply, & haven't had much time for it or it's idiotic opinions, ever since.. As a point of interest though, Sekorski has since been removed, & Julian Jackson now, mysteriously sits there.. A joke in itself!... Furthermore, Bruno STILL doesn't make the list!.. So biased to US fighters, it's unnavigable..

Frank Bruno never jumped out as a devastating puncher to me. I think he would have KOed suspect chin Lewis inside of the first 5 rounds when he was giving him a tough fight if that was the case.

I do believe Nigel Benn made the list, and he's another fighter from the UK. So I'm not sure it's all that biased...

Roy jones should easily be #1 he would beat any of those guys easy. Modern day fighters would destroy srr.

Joseph the bumbeater at #4? That proves yet again how overrated he is.

Salty Gay Robinson doesn't belong anywhere near #1. Muhammad Ali should be #1 followed by Pep and Leonard.

Frank Bruno never jumped out as a devastating puncher to me. I think he would have KOed suspect chin Lewis inside of the first 5 rounds when he was giving him a tough fight if that was the case.

I do believe Nigel Benn made the list, and he's another fighter from the UK. So I'm not sure it's all that biased...
Have you checked out his record?

Have you checked out his record?

Yea, I have. But who did he KO?

Yes ladies and gentleman just who did he ever knockout? because as we all know,All that matter when regarding punching power is how good a fighter it was that you knocked out,I mean it's not like chins or inferior boxing skills come into play here and punching power is obviously determined by how good a boxer you are

who did eanie shavers ever knock out? A faded Norton and Ellis? A decent heavyweight in Roy Williams?

Hector Camacho Stopped Ray Leonard,something Roberto "hands of stone" Duran could never do,Something Thomas "Hitman" Hearns could never do.You know what perhaps Macho has the greater punch than these two well known punchers I mean the proof is in the pudding here according to dunce

foreman never knocked ali down perhaps sonny banks has the greater punch than foreman ever did

Yea, I have. But who did he KO?
Rodriguez
Le Doux
Cummings
Lakusta
Ekland
Bugner
Coetzee
Tillis
Gross
Ribalta
Coetzer
Fergusson
Marin
Evans

Of the above, there are 3 European champions, 1 world champion, 4 title challengers, with the rest all being durable contenders.. All of them were put away by Bruno, far quicker than Foreman, Bowe, Tyson or Frazier could do to Lakusta, Coetze, Tillis & Cummings respectively..

Rodriguez
Le Doux
Cummings
Lakusta
Ekland
Bugner
Coetzee
Tillis
Gross
Ribalta
Coetzer
Fergusson
Marin
Evans

Of the above, there are 3 European champions, 1 world champion, 4 title challengers, with the rest all being durable contenders.. All of them were put away by Bruno, far quicker than Foreman, Bowe, Tyson or Frazier could do to Lakusta, Coetze, Tillis & Cummings respectively..

But who got to them first, and how much did they have left in the tank when they met Bruno?

But who got to them first, and how much did they have left in the tank when they met Bruno?
Coetzer fought Bowe & Lakusta fought Foreman after Bruno had KO'd them.. Tillis was prime (not long after being the 1st to take Tyson 10) Ribalta wasn't past prime either & had given Tyson nightmares for 9 rounds.. Bruno put his lights out in 2.. Bugner, although past prime hadn't been stopped in over 10 years.. Coetzee had only been stopped by Greg Page when losing the WBA strap.. Cummings had just taken a past prime Joe Frazier to a draw.. Frank KO'd him in 8...
The fact is Bruno KO'd 90% of his opponents.. How many can say that?

I'll not answer the Bruno bit as have done in the special forum Mickey has kindly created.
As for Leonard above SRR, I'll not answer that as its stupid.

Hector Camacho Stopped Ray Leonard,something Roberto "hands of stone" Duran could never do,Something Thomas "Hitman" Hearns could never do.You know what perhaps Macho has the greater punch than these two well known punchers I mean the proof is in the pudding here according to dunce

Think the full sentence should be Hector Camacho Stopped a 41 yo Ray Leonard.
[/QUOTE]

Yes ladies and gentleman just who did he ever knockout? because as we all know,All that matter when regarding punching power is how good a fighter it was that you knocked out,I mean it's not like chins or inferior boxing skills come into play here and punching power is obviously determined by how good a boxer you are

who did eanie shavers ever knock out? A faded Norton and Ellis? A decent heavyweight in Roy Williams?

Hector Camacho Stopped Ray Leonard,something Roberto "hands of stone" Duran could never do,Something Thomas "Hitman" Hearns could never do.You know what perhaps Macho has the greater punch than these two well known punchers I mean the proof is in the pudding here according to dunce

foreman never knocked ali down perhaps sonny banks has the greater punch than foreman ever did

In his 74 wins Shavers knocked out 68. Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes both said Shavers was the hardest puncher they fought. So this is pretty high praise, when you consider Ali went in with Archie Moore, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Bob Foster, and George Foreman.

And Holmes went in with Gerry Cooney, Michael Spinks, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield.

Shavers resume of KO's.
Jimmy Young
Jimmy Ellis
Roy Williams
Ken Norton
Joe Bugner
Tony Perea(12-0)

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whatch Shavers vs Lyle. Shavers punches were insane, he would have KO'd Lyle if he knew how to chill a little bit when he had him hurt. He just gassed himself out too much with the punching but when he pulled the trigger it was crazy. Shavers vs Lyle is awesome!

whatch Shavers vs Lyle. Shavers punches were insane, he would have KO'd Lyle if he knew how to chill a little bit when he had him hurt. He just gassed himself out too much with the punching but when he pulled the trigger it was crazy. Shavers vs Lyle is awesome!

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Ali, dead sincere about Shavers.. He wasn't kidding.. Good vids 16BF, cheers..

In his 74 wins Shavers knocked out 68. Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes both said Shavers was the hardest puncher they fought. So this is pretty high praise, when you consider Ali went in with Archie Moore, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Bob Foster, and George Foreman.

And Holmes went in with Gerry Cooney, Michael Spinks, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield.

Shavers resume of KO's.
Jimmy Young
Jimmy Ellis
Roy Williams
Ken Norton
Joe Bugner
Tony Perea(12-0)


You completely ignored my post and whom I was responding to you **cking moron,I was countering the dunce who judged knockout power on how highly ranked that particular opponent

And Bugner was stopped on a cut smart arse

You completely ignored my post and whom I was responding to you **cking moron,I was countering the dunce who judged knockout power on how highly ranked that particular opponent

And Bugner was stopped on a cut smart arse

You make it to obvious you are a ALT. I quoted you due to the fact you douting Shaver's power. And the reason I put Bugner was to see if you were just going to troll my post or actually read it, and I would know if you would of read it by mentioning Bugner was not knocked out.

So am pretty amazed you read my post, instead of just trolling it like you mostly do round here.

Well Done............:lol1:

You make it to obvious you are a ALT. I quoted you due to the fact you douting Shaver's power. And the reason I put Bugner was to see if you were just going to troll my post or actually read it, and I would know if you would of read it by mentioning Bugner was not knocked out.

So am pretty amazed you read my post, instead of just trolling it like you mostly do round here.

Well Done............:lol1:


Are you intentionally being Ironic? I wasn't doubting shavers power you tool.I was responding to the dunce who based knockout power on the qauility of opposition knocked out rather than a consistent record showing as such

I read your post yet you didn't bother reading mine even though you qouted it......you dumb prick

Here is a interview with Ron Lyle, Lyle says Shavers was the best puncher he ever faced.
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Sure I read something about Lyle & Shavers boxing a 4 round exhibition.. Some time ago now, but they'd have both been in their 50's..

If its primarily based on resumes then Pernell is too high...Aaron Pryor is too high...and how the hell is Trinidad at 51 and DLH at 75?

I personally like ESPN's list better...

because trinidad did beat odlh

because trinidad did beat odlh

De La Hoya's resume is still better...and even if you disagree the gap is way too large...

And Pernell has a good resume but not top 10...

Are you intentionally being Ironic? I wasn't doubting shavers power you tool.I was responding to the dunce who based knockout power on the qauility of opposition knocked out rather than a consistent record showing as such

I read your post yet you didn't bother reading mine even though you qouted it......you dumb prick

And yet you misunderstood my initial post, "dunce". I merely said "who" did he KO. A guy doesn't have to KO a great fighter to prove he's got ATG power. But he DOES have to KO a guy that can actually TAKE a great punch. No one is going to call you the heaviest hitter of all time for KOing weak jawed opposition. And plenty of guys had great chins who weren't that good.

You made no mentions of "chins" Dunce,Don't try to Backtrack or you may end up planted on your Backside just like Malone has the many times he has attempted to argue with me.Which is why that coward now has me on ignore

I guess both of my alts are arguing with eachother, according to some looneys here.

You made no mentions of "chins

No ****, I only said "but who did he beat?"

You have to ask questions to ascertain what I mean by that. You can't just make assumptions. Get a clue. You can't read minds.

i like this list it is awesome correct in my thought