View Full Version : Sonny Liston vs Joe Louis


Gettin Jiggy
07-20-2009, 06:16 PM
How does this fight go? Could Liston walk though Louis? Or could Louis ko Liston?

discuss

princemanspoper
07-20-2009, 06:30 PM
I sincerely hope this is some kind of a sick joke? Contrary to what old Malone would have you believe based from his viewing of ali-liston 2(pretty much the only liston fight he has watched) liston could take a punch

could the same be said for Joe louis?


Liston via first jab thrown

Gettin Jiggy
07-20-2009, 06:35 PM
I sincerely hope this is some kind of a sick joke? Contrary to what old Malone would have you believe based from his viewing of ali-liston 2(pretty much the only liston fight he has watched) liston could take a punch

could the same be said for Joe louis?


Liston via first jab thrown

are you a alt?

Obama
07-20-2009, 06:41 PM
Liston had a puncher's chance against anyone without fast feet and an great chin.

Sugarj
07-20-2009, 06:42 PM
Ha ha, this is going to be a volatile thread. Too close to call at their peaks, Liston has the size, reach, weight, the better chin and the heavier punch. Louis has the speed, accuracy and consistency.

These guys could meet several times and swap results. I honestly think that if we are looking at a distance fight I'd slightly favour Louis's boxing but if there was to be a KO it'd be coming from Liston.

boxingbuff
07-20-2009, 06:48 PM
Sonny Liston had a great chin,better than Joe Louis.This is important.

Louis would be in a surprize when Liston would out jab him with his long reach.Liston's jab is also harder than the brown bomber's.Liston also had about 15-20 pounds on Louis.

Louis's punches were faster than Liston's,and his great combination punching.But Sonny had more power in both hands.

I believe Liston's ability to take Joe's punches,and establish the jab are the most important factor's of the fight.

I see Liston stopping Louis in between 6-10 rounds.

Obama
07-20-2009, 06:50 PM
Long as you guys picking Liston realize that he wasn't at his peak for the Ali fights, I'm cool with it. Otherwise...you may be some serious Ali huggers.

princemanspoper
07-20-2009, 06:51 PM
are you a alt?

No but I'm starting to think you are.Obama was the greatest first class dunce I've seen on here and you match him q to q(Or is that I to Q?)so I have my suspicions

Gettin Jiggy
07-20-2009, 06:52 PM
No but I'm starting to think you are.Obama was the greatest first class dunce I've seen on here and you match him q to q(Or is that I to Q?)so I have my suspicions

yes you are a alt FACT

billionaire
07-20-2009, 06:56 PM
liston by 2nd round ko....joe louis did not have the chin or the movement to last with liston....if you think im hating go look at listons prime when he was knockin out top fighters cold in the 1st round....

princemanspoper
07-20-2009, 06:57 PM
Long as you guys picking Liston realize that he wasn't at his peak for the Ali fights, I'm cool with it. Otherwise...you may be some serious Ali huggers.

And how would his fights with ali work to liston's advantage when trying to make an argument(there should be no debate here)for liston in this dream match? :dunce:

yes you are a alt FACT

proof?

Gettin Jiggy
07-20-2009, 07:15 PM
And how would his fights with ali work to liston's advantage when trying to make an argument(there should be no debate here)for liston in this dream match? :dunce:



proof?

because you are that obvious

fight_professor
07-20-2009, 07:30 PM
Sonny Liston had a great chin,better than Joe Louis.This is important.

Louis would be in a surprize when Liston would out jab him with his long reach.Liston's jab is also harder than the brown bomber's.Liston also had about 15-20 pounds on Louis.

Louis's punches were faster than Liston's,and his great combination punching.But Sonny had more power in both hands.

I believe Liston's ability to take Joe's punches,and establish the jab are the most important factor's of the fight.

I see Liston stopping Louis in between 6-10 rounds.

That's how I see it.

Liston was superb. Beautiful jab, huge reach (80+), power, solid chin. Louis was slow as, I've seen lots of his fights. Power and control relies of reaching/landing. Joe eats jabs, gets his chin shook up and then gets KO'd.

:afro:

Sugarj
07-20-2009, 07:48 PM
Yea that was a good analysis from Boxingbuff.

But Captain Sam, Louis wasn't slow until the very late 40s. His foot speed was nothing to write home about (he was called 'shuffling Joe') but his fists were very quick and his combinations were lightning fast. Check out some fights from the late 30s.

them_apples
07-20-2009, 09:30 PM
I sincerely hope this is some kind of a sick joke? Contrary to what old Malone would have you believe based from his viewing of ali-liston 2(pretty much the only liston fight he has watched) liston could take a punch

could the same be said for Joe louis?


Liston via first jab thrown

yea Liston had a really tough chin I don't know how Ali got to it so bad. Probably just the speed.

TheGreatA
07-20-2009, 09:49 PM
I don't think there's much of a size difference at all. Liston was slightly heavier at his peak, Louis was slightly taller. Liston of course had the longer reach.

The fastest of Liston I've seen was when he smashed the durable Wayne Bethea in one round. He weighed 204 lbs in that fight and around 26-29 years of age.

I think Liston's best showings were against Cleveland Williams. He was around 212 lbs.

Louis was at his fastest when he fought Max Baer, at 21 years of age and 198 lbs.

Perhaps the best version of Louis I saw was the one who fought Abe Simon and Buddy Baer in rematches, he was 28 years old and weighed 208 lbs.

I think Louis was much quicker with his hands, put together better combinations, counter punched well (unlike Liston who rarely did) and never got tired or frustrated even if a fight wasn't going his way.

Liston is not the lumbering slugger that he is made out to be. He was a solid technical boxer who rarely pressed the fight. He was content on using the jab and looking for opportunities to land his power punches. Liston is often criticized for being slow, which is somewhat true, but he did have decent footwork and handspeed at his best.

Gettin Jiggy
07-20-2009, 10:12 PM
I don't think there's much of a size difference at all. Liston was slightly heavier at his peak, Louis was slightly taller. Liston of course had the longer reach.

The fastest of Liston I've seen was when he smashed the durable Wayne Bethea in one round. He weighed 204 lbs in that fight and around 26-29 years of age.

I think Liston's best showings were against Cleveland Williams. He was around 212 lbs.

Louis was at his fastest when he fought Max Baer, at 21 years of age and 198 lbs.

Perhaps the best version of Louis I saw was the one who fought Abe Simon and Buddy Baer in rematches, he was 28 years old and weighed 208 lbs.

I think Louis was much quicker with his hands, put together better combinations, counter punched well (unlike Liston who rarely did) and never got tired or frustrated even if a fight wasn't going his way.

Liston is not the lumbering slugger that he is made out to be. He was a solid technical boxer who rarely pressed the fight. He was content on using the jab and looking for opportunities to land his power punches. Liston is often criticized for being slow, which is somewhat true, but he did have decent footwork and handspeed at his best.

so who do you pick?

Southpaw Stinger
07-20-2009, 10:35 PM
How does this fight go? Could Liston walk though Louis? Or could Louis ko Liston?

discuss

With Liston's reach, he wouldn't have to walk through Louis. It would be up to Louis to get inside.

fight_professor
07-21-2009, 12:12 AM
Yea that was a good analysis from Boxingbuff.

But Captain Sam, Louis wasn't slow until the very late 40s. His foot speed was nothing to write home about (he was called 'shuffling Joe') but his fists were very quick and his combinations were lightning fast. Check out some fights from the late 30s.

I was refering to footspeed. Hand speed is important once you can get into position to land/use those hands effectively. His footspeed was poor. No 2 ways about that.

Plodding forward. May have worked against some of those guys, but against a man of Liston's class, its lights out. :boxing:

0Rooster4Life0
07-21-2009, 12:41 AM
Louis didnt have a BAD chin, He didnt have a Great chin by all means, But it was a decent chin, Somone with a Bad chin goes down and stays down, Louis Gets up.

Sonny had a Great jad on him, But So did Joe, Although the Reach goes to Sonny.

No doubt Sonny had a Great chin, I do not like to comment on the ali fights because there is a dark cloud over them. Only Ali and Leotis Martin KOed Liston, and anyone who has seen the Leotis Martin V Liston fight could only take there hat off to Sonny, He took some Huge Shots, His Jaw was Broken with blood running out of his mouth, and it took Martin 9 rounds to stop Sonny with some HUGE bombs.


My Result.
I can see Joe picking Sonny apart with those short powerful shots to the head Much like he did to Max Baer. Joe Louis By KO Round 6



Rooster



SONNY LISTON VS JOE LOUIS VIDEO I MADE

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Silencers
07-21-2009, 12:51 AM
I think this would have been a great fight for as long as it lasted. Liston would have given Louis trouble with his jab, which was one of the greatest of all time, but Louis' superior timing would give Liston a lot of trouble as well. Liston obviously had tremendous power is both hands and Louis always had that flaw of bringing his left hand back in low, even though it got much better after he got knocked out, it was always there.

I think Louis would have had rocky moments early when he would still be feeling Liston out, quite possibly getting hurt and maybe even going down but I think he gets back up and rallies to beat Liston in about 7 rounds. Would've been great.

them_apples
07-21-2009, 01:32 AM
I don't think there's much of a size difference at all. Liston was slightly heavier at his peak, Louis was slightly taller. Liston of course had the longer reach.

The fastest of Liston I've seen was when he smashed the durable Wayne Bethea in one round. He weighed 204 lbs in that fight and around 26-29 years of age.

I think Liston's best showings were against Cleveland Williams. He was around 212 lbs.

Louis was at his fastest when he fought Max Baer, at 21 years of age and 198 lbs.

Perhaps the best version of Louis I saw was the one who fought Abe Simon and Buddy Baer in rematches, he was 28 years old and weighed 208 lbs.

I think Louis was much quicker with his hands, put together better combinations, counter punched well (unlike Liston who rarely did) and never got tired or frustrated even if a fight wasn't going his way.

Liston is not the lumbering slugger that he is made out to be. He was a solid technical boxer who rarely pressed the fight. He was content on using the jab and looking for opportunities to land his power punches. Liston is often criticized for being slow, which is somewhat true, but he did have decent footwork and handspeed at his best.

Liston was a big strong man, he just didn't carry much weight in his legs, but had huge arms.

weight isn't everything. George Foreman weighed less than Joe frazier when they fought (or close to) and look who was the bigger stronger man. I'm not saying Liston wins, but in terms of size and strength, it goes to Liston.

not to bring up Mike Tyson, but frame wise he was only Pattersons size (only he carried a lot more dense muscle) going by the picture of him standing beside Patterson. Liston dwarfed Patterson.

Liston would appear the bigger man because of his huge arms and shoulders, he weighed in at around 210 because of his smaller legs.

Size doesn't matter here anyways, Either Louis get's to Listons chin on the inside with a brutal combo, or Liston's Jab pounds Louis' stationary head for a good number of rounds and stops him.

Obama
07-21-2009, 03:11 AM
And how would his fights with ali work to liston's advantage when trying to make an argument(there should be no debate here)for liston in this dream match? :dunce:

They wouldn't genius, learn to read. :smashfrea

RightCross94
07-21-2009, 03:33 AM
Liston by Knockout.

mickey malone
07-21-2009, 08:28 PM
Providing Louis gets inside the jab, he'd have too much on the inside for Liston, combinations wearing him down for a stoppage around the 13th..

boxingbuff
07-23-2009, 05:31 PM
Providing Louis gets inside the jab, he'd have too much on the inside for Liston, combinations wearing him down for a stoppage around the 13th..

You REALLY see Louis taking Liston's punches?

If it goes 13 rounds as you say.....Liston would have hit Louis many times.Louis would crumble under Liston's shots.

BTW-Who do you pick in a PRIME Forman-Louis fight?

The Surgeon
07-23-2009, 05:55 PM
GREAT fight! And tough to call! Im gonna say Joe Louis takes Sonny outta there around the 8th or 9th after taking some thudding shots himself, mabey even tasting the canvas! Listons jab would be a big factor but Joe would rack up his power shots and stop him eventually i feel. Real Tough pick tho i could easily make a case for Liston winning

joseph5620
07-23-2009, 06:05 PM
Long as you guys picking Liston realize that he wasn't at his peak for the Ali fights, I'm cool with it. Otherwise...you may be some serious Ali huggers.

I don't recall Liston showing any deterioration of skills before the Ali fight. It's easy to say he was past it after the fact because the 8-1 underdog beat him. Clay/Ali was a bad style match up for Liston at any stage of his career.

joseph5620
07-23-2009, 06:07 PM
Sonny Liston had a great chin,better than Joe Louis.This is important.

Louis would be in a surprize when Liston would out jab him with his long reach.Liston's jab is also harder than the brown bomber's.Liston also had about 15-20 pounds on Louis.

Louis's punches were faster than Liston's,and his great combination punching.But Sonny had more power in both hands.

I believe Liston's ability to take Joe's punches,and establish the jab are the most important factor's of the fight.

I see Liston stopping Louis in between 6-10 rounds.

As unpopular as this might be, I'm leaning towards this analysis. I think it's a bad style and physical match up for Louis although I don't rule out him winning either.

TheGreatA
07-23-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't recall Liston showing any deterioration of skills before the Ali fight. It's easy to say he was past it after the fact because the 8-1 underdog beat him. Clay/Ali was a bad style match up for Liston at any stage of his career.

Agreed, but I don't think he was quite as good against Ali as he was in the late 50's.

He would've still beaten most of the fighters out there, mostly due to them being intimidated by him. Even Patterson could've put up a much better fight, the rumour has it that Liston hardly trained a day for the rematch.

Against Ali he was motivated to shut him up but completely underestimated Ali's abilities as did everyone else at the time. Who could've known that the loudmouth who was knocked down by Henry Cooper would go onto become the greatest?

As I said before in this thread, this is the fastest I've seen of Liston at just 204 lbs:

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He was certainly still capable against Ali and put up a decent fight until the sixth round which was dominated by Ali:

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mickey malone
07-24-2009, 07:17 AM
You REALLY see Louis taking Liston's punches?

If it goes 13 rounds as you say.....Liston would have hit Louis many times.Louis would crumble under Liston's shots.

BTW-Who do you pick in a PRIME Forman-Louis fight?
You should know by now.. My views are that Louis is the best HW who ever lived.. I'm not saying he can't be beat, but I am saying that if he fought every other top tenner, 10 times over 10 years, he'd come out on top, with Foreman, Liston, Lewis, Holmes, Dempsey, Marciano, Bowe, etc running him close, & Ali taking him to the wire.. As for, could Louis take Listons punches? Could Liston take Louis's punches? He couldn't take Ali's, so I very much doubt it..

Kid McCoy
07-24-2009, 07:45 AM
You REALLY see Louis taking Liston's punches?

If it goes 13 rounds as you say.....Liston would have hit Louis many times.Louis would crumble under Liston's shots.

BTW-Who do you pick in a PRIME Forman-Louis fight?

Louis' chin is underrated here. He was KO'd twice in 68 fights, both times by prime Hall of Famers who could punch and who had to pound him over the course of the fight to beat him. Most of his knockdowns were of the flash variety and when he got up he usually resumed pounding his opponent post haste. It was one thing putting him on the canvas but another thing entirely to keep him there. He also walked through Max Bear's rights (who had comparable power to Liston) en route to mowing him down.

Ali was dropped by Banks and Cooper and buzzed by Mildenberger and Terrell. Holmes was dropped by Kevin Isaacs and nearly knocked senseless by Renaldo Snipes. Ezzard Charles and Ray Robinson were dropped by a variety of fighters. Did they all have weak chins too?

Liston was not Superman. Marty Marshall broke his jaw and beat him, and also took him the distance on another occasion. Eddie Machen took him the distance, as did journeyman Bert Whitehurst (twice). He was KO'd cold by Leotis Martin and also in sparring by Mac Foster. He well past it by then, but it does demonstrate that he was not invulnerable.

Both were fine fighters in their day, and either man can win, but don't lets caricature them.

Sugarj
07-24-2009, 08:33 AM
I dont remember Ali being buzzed by Mildenberger or Terrell. Ali was not in trouble in either fight IMO.

But agree on Louis's chin. He took a few solid whacks from Baer!

boxingbuff
07-27-2009, 04:16 PM
You should know by now.. My views are that Louis is the best HW who ever lived.. I'm not saying he can't be beat, but I am saying that if he fought every other top tenner, 10 times over 10 years, he'd come out on top, with Foreman, Liston, Lewis, Holmes, Dempsey, Marciano, Bowe, etc running him close, & Ali taking him to the wire.. As for, could Louis take Listons punches? Could Liston take Louis's punches? He couldn't take Ali's, so I very much doubt it..

You sure like to twist things....Saying Liston couldn't take Ali's punches,LOL

Liston could take Ali's punches and punches ALOT harder.As he did against many other fighters.Cleveland Williams to name just one.

Liston did not quit against Ali because of his hard punches.Just like Roberto Duran did not quit against SRL because of his hard punches.They both quit because they were being humiliated and embarrased.

Please stop "twisting" things.You would rather win a debate than search for the truth.

Caesar
08-02-2009, 07:58 AM
i think liston would win his fight in his prime, he was so awesome strong, but not with ko, becuase louis was one of the best defense boxers