frank mir is still much better than brock, and stands a much better chance of beating fedor...... brock is just heavy.... yea he can wrestle, but his ground game and striking are sub-par at best when it comes to skill..... if it wasnt for he size, brock would be nothing but a heavyweight josh koshcheck.....

A win is a win. Brock decimated Mir, I can't see how you can rate Mir as better than Brock?????

A win is a win. Brock decimated Mir, I can't see how you can rate Mir as better than Brock?????

they are 1-1 and mirs record overall is far superior. not too hard to see in my opinion. then again someone with tyson "bum of the planet" fury in his avatar clearly doesnt see things for what they are.

I'd say Brock was better but Mir is more skillful....

If they fought for a third time i think Brock would stop him again...

they are 1-1 and mirs record overall is far superior. not too hard to see in my opinion. then again someone with tyson "bum of the planet" fury in his avatar clearly doesnt see things for what they are.

I'm used to sensible debate in the MMA section here, looks like I won't get any tonight.

I was going to engage in a dialogue with you, but you ruined it by going on about Tyson Fury for no reason you fool.

I'm used to sensible debate in the MMA section here, looks like I won't get any tonight.

I was going to engage in a dialogue with you, but you ruined it by going on about Tyson Fury for no reason you fool.

it was a joke. im very capable of a having a sensible conversation. too bad i ruined it, im devastated.

it was a joke. im very capable of a having a sensible conversation. too bad i ruined it, im devastated.

Fair enough.

Any non-twats in here wanna talk MMA?

Mir hasn’t really been relevant since the bike accident. He was just at the right place at the right time.

Lesner may not have the technical ability of Mir but you put them both in the octagon and 9 times outta 10, Lesner pulverises him. Lesner uses his advantages better than Mir thus he's better.

Brock Lesnar is better than Mir cause he punched his face into a pizza face. He just demolished him and would do the same 8 times out of 10. And no i don't believe he has better chances of beating Fedor. Lesnar can take down Fedor and open a cut. Mir can get taken down, take a beating and miss submissions, or try to play Mr. Kickboxing and get beaten up like against Ian Freeman or Brandon Vera.

Your statement is like: Couture is a much better fighter than Liddell cause he has better wrestling credentials, a much better ground game and has decent stand up.
Still, Couture may be the more complete fighter but i don't give a ****, Liddell KTFO him twice.

End the thread, liason and cotto rules have said it all.

frank mir will beat brock in a rubber match.... hes a smarter fighter, who wont make the same mistakes....

frank mir will beat brock in a rubber match.... hes a smarter fighter, who wont make the same mistakes....

lol, this must be sarcasm surely!!

Mir is done, and was never that good to begin with.

Why would anyone pay to see Lesnar - Mir III?

Answer, they wouldnt. Brock has much bigger fish to fry.

lol, this must be sarcasm surely!!

Mir is done, and was never that good to begin with.
no sarcasm....... nice to see yall writing fighters off so quickly......

no sarcasm....... nice to see yall writing fighters off so quickly......

I'm not writing him off quickly, Mir has had plenty enough fights for me to form an opinion on him.

Unlike yourself, who seem to be super critical of Brock, even though his career is still only in it's infancy.

frank mir is still much better than brock, and stands a much better chance of beating fedor...... brock is just heavy.... yea he can wrestle, but his ground game and striking are sub-par at best when it comes to skill..... if it wasnt for he size, brock would be nothing but a heavyweight josh koshcheck.....

ummm no, brock is better than Mir. and your logic is flawed. so brock beat Mir using his size but his size will be non existent against Fedor??? lol.

Mir doesn't stand a chance against Fedor. Fedor would ruin Mir in every way, shape and form. While Brock would pose major problems for Fedor if the fight went to the ground.

frank mir will beat brock in a rubber match.... hes a smarter fighter, who wont make the same mistakes....

Frank Mir got lucky in the first fight. if they fought 40 more times, brock would win all 40.

You can probably say that Mir is more skilled than Brock but I think Brock's size just overwhelms Mir.

Now, who we all SHOULD want to see Brock fight is this man...

http://www.gambling911.com/kevin-randleman-11.jpg

Brock's size wont be a huge factor against the Randleplex!

Quick thoughts:

- Brock will dominate the UFC HW division unless a healthy Nog pulls a sub out of his ass or Fedor comes and beats him.

- Mir has and forever was overrated. I would take Couture (also overrated) over Mir all day long.

- Cain and Carwin stand a combined 5% chance of beating Lesnar (4% for Carwin KO'ing him and 1% for Cain to outpoint him)

- Kongo is a joke.

- Cro Cop needs to turn back the clock 5 years.

- Dana White is a douchebag.

frank mir is still much better than brock, and stands a much better chance of beating fedor...... brock is just heavy.... yea he can wrestle, but his ground game and striking are sub-par at best when it comes to skill..... if it wasnt for he size, brock would be nothing but a heavyweight josh koshcheck.....

he showed some skill in the rematch:

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How is Kongo a joke????

How is Kongo a joke????

Not even a "shrimp/turtle" up form of ground game.

I dont think he is a joke though, he just has zero ground game.

I wouldn't say zero gorund game. He has good ground and pound, and the much lauded "prodigy" Velazquez couldn't put an unprepared Kongo away without the judges....

he showed some skill in the rematch:

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that video pretty much seals the deal on brock being a great ground technician. you see, brock isn't just all size and strength. he knows what he is doing.

A win is a win. Brock decimated Mir, I can't see how you can rate Mir as better than Brock?????

skills wise.

it's like penn-gsp.

yes gsp won both times but penn is still the better fighter.

gsp is just a much bigger fighter on roids.

that video pretty much seals the deal on brock being a great ground technician. you see, brock isn't just all size and strength. he knows what he is doing.

it at least shows that he is learning how to apply technique to compliment his size

the man spent the better part of 2 rounds on the ground with a bjj black belt and was never threatened

he's taking his training seriously

skills wise.

it's like penn-gsp.

yes gsp won both times but penn is still the better fighter.

gsp is just a much bigger fighter on roids.

it takes a lot of skill to take roids and not get caught.

it takes a lot of skill to take roids and not get caught.

gsp is the lance armstrong of mma. :lol1:

I noticed that during the fight Mir kept going for sweeps from the half guard. He kept putting brock in a "lockdown" and attempted the "electric chair" and "old school" sweeps numerous times. That 10th planet stuff is all well and good but alot of it is very difficult to apply on someone who is that much bigger and stronger than you.

In my opinion what Mir should have been focused on was obtaining his under hook and creating space to either recompose guard or get to his knees in classic Gracie Jujitsu fashion. If he would of used a standard half guard instead of a "lockdown" it would not have been as easy for Lesnar to sit on his tucked leg and move his weight forward.

Im not saying it would have changed the outcome of the fight but it more than likely would have saved Mir from taking as much damage as he did.

I noticed that during the fight Mir kept going for sweeps from the half guard. He kept putting brock in a "lockdown" and attempted the "electric chair" and "old school" sweeps numerous times. That 10th planet stuff is all well and good but alot of it is very difficult to apply on someone who is that much bigger and stronger than you.

In my opinion what Mir should have been focused on was obtaining his under hook and creating space to either recompose guard or get to his knees in classic Gracie Jujitsu fashion. If he would of used a standard half guard instead of a "lockdown" it would not have been as easy for Lesnar to sit on his tucked leg and move his weight forward.

Im not saying it would have changed the outcome of the fight but it more than likely would have saved Mir from taking as much damage as he did.

blame sports jiu-jitsu.

everyone is so enamored with all these new , improved guards and sweeps that work so well in tournaments but they are sometimes not the best choice in an mma fight.

sometimes the basics is best. the old school gracies and old school bjj guys were good because they mastered the basics to the point of perfection not because of fancy new moves.

i don't know how many times i've seen someone's guard get passed and they get pounded on because they went with a butterfly guard or rubber guard instead of just going for a closed guard at first and biding their time.

that video pretty much seals the deal on brock being a great ground technician. you see, brock isn't just all size and strength. he knows what he is doing.
One thing I dislike about the UFC system though is the use of elbows on the ground. This really plays into the hands of ground and pounders.

In Japan, elbows are generally disallowed on the ground, and the result imo is better grappling.

You guys both have very valid points, but a lot of the new school moves are sport specific, in that they were designed to be used in MMA, not in a JJ match.

One thing I dislike about the UFC system though is the use of elbows on the ground. This really plays into the hands of ground and pounders.

In Japan, elbows are generally disallowed on the ground, and the result imo is better grappling.

they should allow elbows to the top of the head from the guard if they allow elbows from the mount imo.

allow the elbows like ufc does and allow the knees and kicking while down from the old pride rules.

I'd say Brock was better but Mir is more skillful....

If they fought for a third time i think Brock would stop him again...

tru dat.

Brock may not be as technically skilled as Frank, but he is progressing as a fighter. Knowing how to use your advantages (size in this case) is a skill in its own.

In Japan, elbows are generally disallowed on the ground, and the result imo is better grappling.

Not when Wanderlei or Shogun are giving you soccer kicks to the head lol

Not when Wanderlei or Shogun are giving you soccer kicks to the head lol

wanderlei was like a wild animal when he was soccer kicking guys to the head.

i loved it and i generally prefer grappling and submissions.

they should allow elbows to the top of the head from the guard if they allow elbows from the mount imo.

allow the elbows like ufc does and allow the knees and kicking while down from the old pride rules.
Personally, I prefer the kicks to the grounded opponent to the elbows. The kicks/stomps look (and often are) very brutal, but the elbows disrupt the asthetics of the fights imo.

Personally, I prefer the kicks to the grounded opponent to the elbows. The kicks/stomps look (and often are) very brutal, but the elbows disrupt the asthetics of the fights imo.

i don't know. i'm okay with the elbows.

you are right though , the kicks and stops are beautiful in its brutality.



i'm old school mma fan though. i like the no rules aspect of the original ufc.

i also miss the days of the gi in mma.

it's a beautiful thing to see a guy get choked by his own gi. plus it prevent all these cheating wrestlers who oil up so it's hard for the bjj guys to get a hold of them. :)

i don't know. i'm okay with the elbows.

you are right though , the kicks and stops are beautiful in its brutality.



i'm old school mma fan though. i like the no rules aspect of the original ufc.

i also miss the days of the gi in mma.

it's a beautiful thing to see a guy get choked by his own gi. plus it prevent all these cheating wrestlers who oil up so it's hard for the bjj guys to get a hold of them. :)
I personally feel that elbows and kicks to the head of a grounded opponent should both be illegal, however if as a fan it was up to me to choose one or the other, I will take the kicks and disallow the elbows.

Really though, it is my feeling that neither is appropriate.

that video pretty much seals the deal on brock being a great ground technician. you see, brock isn't just all size and strength. he knows what he is doing.
if frank and brock were identical in size and strength, frank would beat him every time....

if frank and brock were identical in size and strength, frank would beat him every time....

Your 100% right but by you saying that Mir is still a better fighter, your discrediting mma.

Reality is, in mma size and strength are HUGE advantages. Lesnar showed that, no training in the world can help Mir against a man that much bigger and stronger than him.

Frank Mir was punches senseless to the ground 3 times, 3tko losses he's got before Lesnar, what makes Mir so special, because he broke Tim Sylvia's arm?

Josh Barnett is a big and skilled big man, this is gonna be a great test for Fedor if Barnett's chin can hold up. I have a suspicion that Barnett is chinny just like Alrovski.

Frank Mir was punches senseless to the ground 3 times, 3tko losses he's got before Lesnar, what makes Mir so special, because he broke Tim Sylvia's arm?

Josh Barnett is a big and skilled big man, this is gonna be a great test for Fedor if Barnett's chin can hold up. I have a suspicion that Barnett is chinny just like Alrovski.
I'm expecting Fedor to dominate the stand-up and to have the edge in the grappling. However based on their clash of styles (catch vs sambo), it should be interesting on the ground while it lasts, if the fight goes there.