View Full Version : The No Troll Joe Louis And Ray Robinson Appreciation Thread


Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 08:17 PM
Show some love! The beauty of it is the Trolls can't respond to anything posted here :rofl:

Poet

0Rooster4Life0
07-17-2009, 08:25 PM
Both men achieved Great things in the ring, and helped Build the road for future Greats, Without Both men Boxing would not be the same.


Respect and Love for Both Fighters.

Legends Of The Ring.


BOTH MEN WERE CREDITS TO THERE RACE.......THE HUMAN RACE



Thank You For The Great Boxing Moments Guys.


ROOSTER

ßringer
07-17-2009, 08:27 PM
I have nothing but respect for Robinson as a fighter. The man was the greatest to ever lace the gloves, and he will never be equaled, matched, or surpassed in that regard.

Joe Louis I have nothing but profound respect and admiration for. As a fighter, he was everything you want in a professional. And as a man, I deeply admire his courage, patriotism, humility, and sacrifice. A true hero, Louis was.

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 08:28 PM
Both men achieved Great things in the ring, and helped Build the road for future Greats, Without Both men Boxing would not be the same.

Respect and Love for Both Fighters.

Legends Of The Ring.

Thank You For The Great Boxing Moments Guys.

ROOSTER

:fing02: :fest30:

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 08:29 PM
I have nothing but respect for Robinson as a fighter. The man was the greatest to ever lace the gloves, and he will never be equaled, matched, or surpassed in that regard.

Joe Louis I have nothing but profound respect and admiration for. As a fighter, he was everything you want in a professional. And as a man, I deeply admire his courage, patriotism, humility, and sacrifice. A true hero, Louis was.

:biggthump :usa:

Southpaw16BF
07-17-2009, 08:45 PM
Two of the very very best. When Ray Robinson and Joe Louis fought in the prize ring they created magic that will live on for ever. When all time greats are talked about both come to mind. What a pair of fighters they were.

http://www.antekprizering.com/robinsonbowii.jpeg

Sugar Ray Robinson has been named the greatest fighter of all time, pound for pound, by the International Boxing Research Organization, a reputable association of boxing historians, analysts and writers. Robinson certainly has all of the qualifications to be titled as the greatest of them all. The Sugar man possessed every asset of a great boxing master; grace, speed, balance, fantastic skill, pulverizing punching power, an indestructible chin, and an indomitable will. Further his competition is among the best of any fighter in any weight class. Robinson also had longevity to go along with a great ring record.

There are a number of ways to rate fighters in an all time sense, but it boils down to two important considerations. One is to judge the ability of a fighter. That is to ask who brings the most attributes to the ring. Rating fighters on talent is one method. The other is to rate fighters strictly on their ring record by weighing their accomplishments and quality of opposition. In either case Robinson is difficult to compare.

ABILITY

What other fighter could beat you more ways than could Sugar Ray Robinson? Ray could out box boxers and out punch punchers. He could do it inside or outside, going forward or backward. That cannot be said of any other all time great that received a first place vote in the IBRO poll. Not Harry Greb, not Bob Fitzsimmons, not Jack Dempsey, not Henry Armstrong, not Sam Langford. Nor could it be said of 4-5th place finishers Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis. Runner up Greb and 3rd place finisher Armstrong were primarily pressure fighters. Dempsey, Louis, Langford and top 10 finisher Roberto Duran could box and punch, but they could not “outbox” boxers with speed and agility. Ali could outbox punchers but he could not out punch punchers. Ali was also one dimensional in that he was strictly a head hunter and not a complete fighter. In terms of all around ability, hitting power and versatility, Robinson deserves the top spot.

Although not as fundamentally sound as Joe Louis, Robinson was more multifaceted. Louis was an economically sound boxer who wasted no movement, had a tight structure and threw short compact punches with precision and power. According to the boxing book that is how it is suppose to be done. Robinson transcended that by adding fluidity of movement and grace to his ring style. Sugar Ray was not the first fighter to fight in the elegant style that he possessed. What made Robinson so special was that he combined speed, balance and flash with devastating explosive power.

Men like Louis, Langford, and Dempsey could knock you out with one punch from either hand. So could Robinson. Ray could do it with his powerful left hook as he did against Gene Fullmer or with his perfect straight right as he did against Rocky Graziano. Joe Louis could throw triple left hooks with speed, power and accuracy that could destroy a man. Robinson could throw triple left hooks and triple right hooks that could do the same. Who else could do that and maintain frightening power?

Punch for punch Ray Robinson was one of boxing histories all time best punchers. Robinson once knocked out Gene Fullmer with a picturesque left hook while moving backwards displaying the one shot shock power of an all time puncher. The Ring magazine rated him 11th among all the great punchers of history in their 2003 article the 100 greatest punchers of all time.

In terms of combination punching the two best fighters in history for speed, power, and accuracy are Joe Louis and Ray Robinson. Robinson worked some of the prettiest combinations ever seen and can be considered the best ever in this category. Robinson was also a great body puncher. In a comparison to some of the great Mexican body punchers of the recent era like Julio Cesar Chavez and Marco Antonio Barrera; who go to the body primarily around the opponents guard, Robinson punched up the middle as well as to the outside. Robinson was an aggressive, dexterous puncher with many weapons to choose from.

Killer instinct is the instrument the drives the wheel of destruction in many of the great fighters. Nat Fleischer once wrote that Robinson, for all his skill, could rip and tear like a Jack Dempsey. Some commentators have stated that Robinson was not a great defensive fighter. This is no doubt true. When one is aggressive and really goes after their opponent they are going to leave themselves open for counters. This is not always a bad thing. When Robinson was on the attack his opponents had to worry about his full battery of offensive weapons. Robinson’s defense was his irrepressible offense, although he used his footwork, height and reach to get away from trouble when necessary.

Robinson had a great chin and his will to win is among the best. Sugar Ray was never physically knocked out in more than 200 pro fights. One can see Robinson’s gritty determination in his films. He punishes his rivals as though he is upset that they would even think that they could compete with him. He was as determined and confident as any boxing champion in history.

Ray Robinson was the archetype of a complete fighter. If one combines his polished, grand boxing style with his powerful punching and cast iron chin with a will to win unsurpassed in the annals of boxing one has a perfect fighter.

RECORD

Five men can lay claim to having the best record in boxing history in terms of their accomplishments and quality of opposition. Those men are Harry Greb, Henry Armstrong, Benny Leonard, Muhammad Ali and Ray Robinson.

Harry Greb fought 14 world champions and 4 championship title claimants. He had wins against all of them. That means he faced and defeated 18 of 18 champions that he met in the ring at least once. Greb’s record reads like a who’s who of great fighters from the late teens and 20’s. His quality of opposition is unmatched defeating five world middleweight champions, seven world light-heavyweight champions and one future heavyweight champion. The names include, Mike McTigue, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Tiger Flowers, Tommy Loughran, Tommy Gibbons Jimmy Slattery, Maxie Rosenbloom, Mickey Walker and Gene Tunney. Although not much more than a middleweight he also won dozens of fights against heavyweights including matches against Bill Brennan and Billy Miske both of whom fought for the heavyweight title. Greb came in second in the IBRO poll based primarily on his exceptional ring record.

Henry Armstrong’s feats are amazing. During his peak run Hank was 59-1-1 with 51 knockouts against topflight competition, which included winning the featherweight, lightweight and welterweight world titles. Armstrong scored 27 straight knockouts during 1937-1938. He came within a hair’s breadth of winning titles in 4 major weight classes when he drew for the middleweight title in 1940 against reigning titleholder Ceferino Garcia, a fighter he had already beaten. Hank also made 20 successful defenses of the welterweight title, a record that still stands to this day. Armstrong’s accomplishments put him in the conversation when discussing the greatest fighter of all time. The one knock against Armstrong is that he lacked longevity and was at his peak for only a short time. Armstrong was a like a fire that burned so brightly that it quickly burned itself out.

Southpaw16BF
07-17-2009, 08:45 PM
Benny Leonard faced the greatest line up of lightweight challengers in ring history. Benny a master boxer of the first order is one fighter who could compete with Robinson in the area of boxing skill and all around ability. His competition was also fierce. He defeated featherweight champions Johnny Kilbane and Johnny Dundee, lightweight champions Freddie Welsh, Willie Ritchie and Rocky Kansas. He defeated some great challengers such as Lew Tendler still considered one of the best fighters to never win a title as well as tough competitors such as Ritchie Mitchell, Patsy Cline, Joe Welling and left hook artist Charley White. Leonard retired undefeated as lightweight champion after 7 years although he did benefit somewhat from the no decision rules of the time.

Muhammad Ali beat the best competition in heavyweight history. As a three time champion he defeated Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, and Leon Spinks. He also defeated hard hitting contenders such as Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers. Ali dominated nearly two decades of heavyweight boxing and must be considered among the best in the category of quality of opposition.

Ray Robinson***8217;s achievements are no less impressive. Robinson amassed a peak professional record of 128-1-2 while winning the welterweight and middleweight titles. The only fighters to surpass Robinson***8217;s peak won-loss record are Willie Pep***8217;s 134-1-1 and perhaps Rocky Marciano***8217;s 49-0, although neither faced close to Robinson***8217;s quality of opposition.

Robinson went 40-0 as a pro before losing a decision to Jake Lamotta, a middleweight who outweighed him by nearly 16 pounds. He was unbeatable for the next eight years going on a 91 bout winning streak. His career record against Lamotta, the only man to ever beat a prime Robinson is 5-1. Lamotta outweighed him by an average of 12 pounds in all of their fights.

Overall Robinson defeated 10 Hall of Famer***8217;s in his career; Jake Lamotta, Sammy Angott, Fritzie Zivic, Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, Rocky Graziano, Randy Turpin, Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio. He also defeated some skilled challengers such as Tommy Bell who could have been champion in the modern era. Ray was undefeated as welterweight champion and won the middleweight title for a record 5 times.

Robinson should have won the middleweight tile for a 6th time but received a dubious draw against Gene Fullmer at age 39. The film clearly demonstrates that Robinson should have received the decision. Ray won the fight in the ring only to be robbed of the decision. Robinson***8217;s longevity puts him among the 5 best geriatric champions of all time with Bob Fitzsimmons, Archie Moore, George Foreman and Bernard Hopkins.

Robinson was absolutely outstanding in rematches. He won rematches against 11 men before finally losing twice to the same fighter. No one ever beat him twice until he was 40 years old and had over 150 fights and even then they were two split-decisions against Paul Pender.

One should also consider that Robinson***8217;s activity level made him sharper and more experienced than modern fighters. For example in 1946 the year he won the welterweight title Sugar Ray fought 16 times. In 1947 he fought 10 times. In 1949 he fought 13 times. In 1950 he fought 19 times. The other ***8220;Sugar Ray***8221; Leonard only fought 40 pro fights in his entire career. Robinson***8217;s total record is 175-19-6 2 NC with 109 kayo***8217;s. 16 of his 19 losses came after his first comeback at age 34, 12 after the age of 40.

To sum it up, Robinson was the consummate professional fighter who possessed every physical asset; speed, agility, mobility, and tremendous punching power. He rates among a select few of the all time greats who could defeat fighters using their own best assets against them. Robinson, a true sharpshooter, easily rates among the best pound for pound punchers in history. Robinson is possibly the greatest combination puncher of all time. His quality of opposition is among the top five. Ray***8217;s peak won-loss record is among the top three. Ray***8217;s overall ring record and accomplishments also rate among the top three. Robinson is among the top five of all time in the category of longevity. Ray had all the intangibles, great experience, killer instinct, a tremendous chin and heart. When one adds it all up it is easy to see why the respected IBRO rated Sugar Ray Robinson as the greatest fighter of all time.

.................

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop*****?clip_id=2995900&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;ful lscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop*****?clip_id=2995900&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;ful lscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/2995900">Ray Robinson Tribute Video</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user1220271">Cox***039;s Corner</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 08:51 PM
Two of the very very best. When Ray Robinson and Joe Louis fought in the prize ring they created magic that will live on for ever. When all time greats are talked about both come to mind. What a pair of fighters they were.

You know what? This thread is open to giving some love to ANY classic fighter people desire where they can do so without the Trolls trying to slime them!

Poet

Southpaw16BF
07-17-2009, 08:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/joe_louis.jpg
Joe Louis was the most powerful and fastest punching heavyweight boxer in ring history. His great hand speed, especially in combination, was awesome to behold. He had a powerful jab, threw every punch perfectly and with wasteless accuracy. His right cross, thrown short and straight, was sheer dynamite. The "Brown Bomber" never ducked anyone as his record 25 title defenses attests to. Of those 25 successful defenses, 21 were won by knockout, 17 of those were ten counts! 5 in the first round! He also knocked out six men who held the Heavyweight Championship of the World. From 1934 to 1949, when he first retired as champion, his record was 60-1 with 51 knockouts. He held the Heavyweight Championship for a record of nearly 12 years.

Louis had the perfect physique for a fighter with long, smooth muscles which gave him great speed and reflexes. Though overlaid with racism, one of the top sportswriters of the 30's, Grantland Rice, described Louis as a "brown cobra" and referred to his "blinding speed" as the "speed of the jungle" and the "instinctive speed of the wild" . Rice (In Mead, Sports Illustrated Sept. 16, 1985) also compared Louis to a "black panther stalking his prey" . His speed and power was explosive. Louis was a rare heavyweight who could throw a triple left hook with power as he did against Max Baer. In terms of hand speed, Louis, in his prime, ranks with the best in the division including Muhammad Ali.

Alan Clevens wrote, (Louis 1914-1981 p 4) "For a day or two after Joe Louis died, the TV networks flooded the airwaves with clips of Joe's fights. A young friend of mine who thought Larry Holmes was the last word marvelled, "I never saw anybody with hands that fast. God his hands were even faster than...than.."

"Go ahead and say it" he told him.

"...Ali's."

"Sure they were young man. Nobody in history had an offense like Louis. One punch was all Joe needed, but he never threw them one at a time. When Joe had an opponent hurt, veteran Louis watchers reached for their hats. He was the greatest "finisher" that ever lived! Joe shuffled forward, always the predator, behind a swift and powerful jab. And then the fireworks! Left hooks, the deadliest right hand ever seen, uppercuts...all thrown in deadly combinations."

As a puncher Louis had everything. When Joe first appeared on the scene he was hailed as (See Durant p. 99), "A ring rarity. A boxer-puncher with the fastest pair of hands and the hardest punch ever seen." He is without doubt the greatest combination puncher to ever lace on the gloves. No one could put their punches together as beautifully as did Louis. He threw every punch in the book with text book perfection, the jab, the hook, the cross, and the uppercut. He placed his punches accurately to vital points; the heart, the liver, behind the ear, under the floating rib, and to the chin. His punches were short, often travelling only inches, yet they landed with jolting power. In this extremely important category of punching efficiency Louis has no peer.

Louis was an extremley accurate puncher who wasted no motion and never threw a wild punch in his life. Detloff (2004) agrees saying , "All the blows in Joe Louis arsenal were so perfectly and precisely thrown every time that you get the sense watching him that he couldn't have been wild or sloppy if he tried."

Ring historian Gilbert Odd wrote, (The Great Champions, p 40), "Louis jab would snap a man's head back with sickening monotony until he wavered under the steady punishment, then he was speedily finished off with swift and accurate hooks from both hands, or a finely timed right cross that carried such knockdown force that few who took it could survive. Louis was ice cold in action, rarely wasted a punch and had an uncanny way of anticipating and avoiding a blow by the merest move of the head."

Nat Fleischer writing in the April 1939 Ring Magazine said, "He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests."

Fleischer wrote, Mar. 1942 Ring Magazine, after Louis' destruction of the 6'5" 250 pound Buddy Baer, that, "Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches."

Jimmy Braddock commenting on Louis power said, (McCallum, 46), "Nobody hits like Louis. A punch is a punch. But that Louis. Take the first jab he nails you. You know what it's like? It's like someone jammed a electric bulb in your face and busted it." When asked about his right hand, he said, "It ain't like a punch. It's like someone nailed you with a crowbar. I thought half my head was blowed off. I figured he caved it in. After he hit me I couldnt even feel if it was there."

Eddie Futch, who knew Joe Louis and trained with him at Brewster's gym, described Louis power (Anderson pp.231-232), "Joe's punches could paralyze you...Anywhere he hit you, you'd feel it. Even if he didn't hit you much, just blocking those shots was like being in an automobile accident."

Emmanuel Steward after studying film of Louis-Schemling 2 concurred about Louis paralyzing power, making the following observation, (Pacheco, 45), "Louis body punches were unbelievable. After Max had been immobolized by a right to the kidney, he took a left hook to the solar plexus which paralyzed him. Even though Max was hurt and wanted to fall down, he couldn't even fall."

The June 23, 1938 NY Times quoted Schmeling as saying he was hit with a kidney punch, a devastating right, which so shocked his nervous system, that he was "dazed" and his "vision was blurred." He was hit so hard to the body he lost his sight for a few seconds.

Ray Arcel, one of the greatest trainers in history who trained champions such as Barney Ross, Tony Zale, Roberto Duran, and Larry Holmes, also worked against Louis in 14 of his fights said (Anderson p. 120), "Louis once drove Paulino Uzcudin's teeth right through his mouthpiece!" That's how hard Joe Louis could hit!

Louis had a certain range he liked to work in. A slippery opponent with good footwork who stayed outside Louis punching radius could give him some problems. Louis style was made for a long fight. Given enough rounds he could eventually break down any opponent. Billy Conn boxed beautifully, the best fight of his career, but one only need to make one mistake against Louis and it was over. Louis eventually caught him and knocked him out in the thirteenth round. "They can run but they can't hide" Louis was fond of saying.

Joe said he learned real early in his career to keep his mouth shut and his ears open. His willingness to learn and listen to the advice of his trainer Jack Blackburn (once a great lightweight with over 150 pro fights) allowed him to carry out Jack's fight plans to perfection. In his 2nd title defense against Nathan Mann, Joe was instructed between rounds to "set him up with the right uppercut and deliver the knockout drops with the left hook". Louis executed flawlessly producing an early knockout victory.

Southpaw16BF
07-17-2009, 08:54 PM
In Louis day there were not a lot of films of fighters for study. Often one would step into the ring not knowing an opponents style. A properly prepared Louis showed how dangerous he could be as he was 10-0 in rematches of opponent's who had given him trouble the first time, he knocked out and destroyed fighters like Schmeling, Arturo Godoy, Buddy Baer, Abe Simon, Billy Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott in rematches. Louis could spot the fault in an opponent's style and capitalize, demonstrating his worth as a master boxer-puncher.

The Bomber has been berated by some fans as having a "weak chin". This is simply not true. This argument can be made against virtually anyone. All fighters have been knocked down by lesser opponents. Jack Johnson was actually knocked out by Klon***e Haynes and Joe Choynski. Dempsey was decked Luis Firpo and the relatively light-hitting Gene Tunney. Rocky Marciano was decked by an old Jersey Joe Walcott and light-heavyweight champion Archie Moore. Muhammad Ali was dumped by Sonny Banks, and Henry Cooper as well as Joe Frazier. Larry Holmes was decked by Kevin Isaacs, Earnie Shavers, and Renaldo Snipes who was not known for his power. Lennox Lewis was knocked out by Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman, never getting off the deck to win a fight.

Max Baer, whose fists were lethal, hit Joe with some of his hardest punches. Louis took them easily. Louis never hit the canvas until his first fight with Schmeling. In his only loss, (from 1934-1949 when he retired as champion), it took Max Schmeling 57 right hand power shots to finally bring Louis down. Schmeling, a first rate counter puncher, was able to exploit Louis mistake of dropping his left after jabbing and especially when launching a left hook. He then proved vulnerable to a straight right hand. (Joe afterward corrected that mistake). Louis proved he could take it. One punch could not knock out Joe Louis. He had to be beaten over the course of the fight. Nat Fleischer in the Aug. 1936 Ring Magazine commenting on Louis loss wrote, "Louis at least answered the critics who said he couldn't take a punch. He took it, and how! He absorbed enough punishment to have laid low the average pugilist a half dozen times. Staggered time and again, he kept on his feet and fought back..." That comment still stands. Louis could take it and fight back, usually with a vengeance!

The ability to come back and win is the sign of a great fighter. Louis had exceptional recuperative ability. He was knocked through the ropes by Buddy Baer in their first bout. Many of the sportswriters at ringside were having visions of Dempsey-Firpo. Sportswriter Dick Cox described what happened next, "Louis, though dazed, recuperated with extraordinary swiftness, and had the situation well in hand, almost before the crowd had ceased shouting over Buddy's surprising feet." In his bout with "Two Ton" Tony Galento, Louis found himself on the receiving end of a Joe Frazier style left hook. Louis went down from the blast in the third round. He got up immediately. Louis was battering Galento mercilessly by rounds end. The end came with sudden devastation in the 4th. When the Bomber let loose the big guns nobody could survive the ferocity of his attack.

The defining fight of Joe Louis career was his rematch with Max Schemeling. With the world on the brink of all out war, Joe Louis faced the Nazi symbol of Aryan supremacy, who handed Louis the only loss of his prime career. Writer Bob Considine described Louis preparation, (Book of Boxing p. 64), "He was a big lean copper spring, tightened and retightened through weeks of training until he was one pregnant package of coiled venom."

Louis uncoiled his blazing fists upon Schmeling with a raging assault. With murder in his eyes, Joe floored Max three times and knocked him out in the first round. It was one of the most devastating knockouts in heavyweight history.

Hype Igoe, a boxing writer and historian, in the Feb. 1941 issue of Ring Magazine, stated "It has been my contention that had Louis always fought with a rush, as he did against Schmeling, none of his opponents would have gotten out of the first round." Louis was indeed a devastating puncher with either hand. William Detloff rated him the # 1 puncher of all time in his article The 100 Greatest Punchers of All Time Ring Almanac 2004.

Perhaps Joe Louis can be best summed up in his own words, "I don't like to hurt nobody, but its my job, and I do it as best as I can!"

Louis skills greatly faded after his 4 year lay-off due to World War 2. He retired as champion in 1949. Because of a tax debt Joe was forced to make a comeback to pay off the IRS. Louis was no longer the same fighter. His blazing hand speed was a thing of the past. He still had some success due to the fact that he was a boxer who made few mistakes in the ring. But as Nat Fleischer wrote, (Ring Dec 1955), by the time of his last fight against Rocky Marciano he had "long since lost his once paralyzing punch."

Louis wasn't able to pay off his debt, though it was eventually forgiven him by the U.S. Government. Joe Louis suffered from health problems later in life. He died on April 12, 1981. He was buried in Arlington National Cemetary at the request of President Ronald Reagan.

Most boxing historians rate Joe Louis number one or number two on their list of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Eddie Futch, who devised the strategy that defeated Ali for both Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, considers Joe Louis to be the greatest of the all time heavies. The late editor of the Ring, Nat Loubet, rated Joe Louis number one on his list of heavyweight greats. Boxing historians such as Dan Daniel, Lew Eskin, Ted Carroll, and Bill Gallo all consider Joe Louis to be the greatest heavyweight champion. John Durant, author of "The Heavyweight Champions" rated him as the # 1 heavyweight of all time. Bert Sugar rates Joe Louis # 2 at heavyweight. The Aug. 1980 issue of the Ring rated Louis as the second greatest fighter in history behind only Sugar Ray Robinson. The Holiday 1998 issue of the Ring rated Louis second behind Muhammad Ali at heavyweight. Former heavyweight champ and boxing historian Mike Tyson, in the HBO video, "Tyson and the Heavyweights" (1988), said of Louis, "It's difficult to see anyone beating him even Muhammad Ali". Cox's Corner rates Joe Louis # 1 among All Time Heavyweights.


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Southpaw16BF
07-17-2009, 08:57 PM
http://www.muhammadali-life.com/pics/RobinsonLouis.jpg

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 09:02 PM
The following article was first published in the Dec 1999 Issue of CyberBoxingZone. Expanded and Revised Fall 2004


How Joe Louis Would Have Beaten Muhammad Ali!
By Monte D. Cox


In the July 1991 Ring Magazine I had a letter published giving four reasons why I thought Muhammad Ali would have defeated Joe Louis had these two all time great heavyweights ever met in their respective primes. These four reasons sum up how most modern boxing fans think of a potential Ali-Louis battle: 1) Ali had greater speed, especially of foot. 2) Ali had the ability to adapt and change his fight plan while Louis tended to be more robotic. 3) Ali had the better chin and successfully absorbed the bombs of some of boxing***8217;s most dangerous sluggers. 4) Ali was never beaten at his best; his first loss came at age 29.

Having grown up as a fan of Muhammad Ali it is sometimes difficult to be objective. I felt a need to prove this popular theory to myself. I began an intensive study of the two great heavyweights particular styles by thoroughly studying films of both fighters, as well as the opinions of other knowledgeable historians and trainers. Within a year I published an article in the May 1992 Boxing Scene ***8220;Joe Louis: The Best Heavyweight Ever!" In this article I argued that out of all the heavyweight champions it was Joe Louis who most closely resembled the perfect fighter. I concluded the Louis-Ali match-up as a toss up that could go either way. After more years of study I now firmly believe that Joe Louis could defeat Muhammad Ali. The following describes the how and why.

Muhammad Ali has become such a legend that people think of him as invincible. One person wrote to me that Ali was a ***8220;demi-god***8221;. I admit it***8217;s pretty impossible to defeat a deity. However, Ali was not a god, but a human being and as such had human frailties. As Jack Dempsey once said ***8220;no man has everything.***8221; Ali had a number of weaknesses as a fighter. He did not have an orthodox style and never learned the rudiments of classical boxing. Ali made many tactical errors in the ring. Ali did not know how to properly hold his hands, or how to duck (he pulled back or sidestepped), nor did he know how to parry or to block a jab!

Ken Norton***8217;s trainer Eddie Futch said, (Anderson pg. 233), ***8220;The jab was a big reason Muhammad Ali never figured out why he had so much trouble with Ken Norton in their three fights.***8221;

In the May 5, 1969 Sports Illustrated, in an article, "Clay-Ali: The Once and Future King", Ali demonstrated how he avoided a jab. He relied on judging the distance and leaning away as in the photograph left He didnt know how to block a jab! If you look at Ali on film, he held his right hand out to the side and did not have it in position to block a jab. That is why Ali had problems with certain fighters like Doug Jones and Norton, fighters with a good left jab could cause him great difficulty.

Norton consistently hit Ali with his jab because Ali didn't keep his right hand up to parry Norton***8217;s counter jab. Ali leaned away from punches. He dropped his hands low. He threw a right uppercut from the outside and dropped his right hand every time before he threw it! This is precicely why Ali was vulnerable to the left hook througout his career. A thorough study of film reveals these flaws in Ali's style. These poor habits caused him trouble with quick handed boxers who had solid left hands.

Joe Louis said of Ali in his autobiography (Louis p 260), ***8220;Ali***8217;s a great fighter, (but) he made too many mistakes, his hands are down a lot, and he takes too many punches to the body. I know what I***8217;m talking about.***8221;

Technically, Ali wasn't a very good fighter; it was just that his physical gifts (speed, reflexes, and chin) were so astonishing that he was able to get away with things that would have gotten most fighters beaten up. Some may argue he did end beaten up when his career was over. George Foreman noted on his web-site (www.georgeforeman.com) that after Ali***8217;s speed diminished ***8220;it became apparent that he never really learned defense.***8221;

So many Ali worshippers are under the impression that Ali was "unhittable" in his prime. This is a myth. George Chuvalo, a limited fighter who lacked both skills had sucess at times against a prime Ali with a body attack. Chuvalo who lacked both speed and hitting accuracy managed to catch Ali flush on the chin with a solid right cross in the 13th round. In both fights with Henry Cooper Ali was hit cleanly by a very average fighter. Even in their second fight Cooper managed to land a fair number of left jabs and hooks as Ali leaned away from punches before Cooper was badly cut.

Ali's tactic of leaning away from punches was considered suicidal by the old-timers. This with good reason, such a tactic could be exploited by a good feinter. Fortunately for Ali, the art of feinting has been an all but lost art since WW2, especially amongst heavyweights. Joe Louis, however, did use occasional feints to set up his devastating counter-punches. Caswell Adams of the New York Herald-Tribune wrote, March 31, 1935, "Louis can punch with terrific power...He can feint a foe out of position." By catching Ali coming back after leaning away from a feint, his counter-punches would land with double impact!

Ali's chin was among the best in heavyweight history, but no man***8217;s chin is impregnable. Ali was nearly kayoed by Henry Cooper***8217;s left hook. He was very fortunate the punch came at the end of the round. He returned to his corner glassy eyed and his trainer Angelo Dundee used smelling salts in the corner to revive him.

Ali also struggled against Doug Jones. The lesson from that fight is not whether Ali deserved the decision, but that a small heavyweight of modest ability was able to be competitive with him. Fighters with quick hands and good left jabs always caused him technical problems. Against Louis, Ali would be facing one of the fastest and most powerful jabbers in boxing history.

Now, consider the statement by Murray Goodman, (Boxing Scene. Spring 1995), that Joe Louis ***8220;could knock you out with a left jab.***8221;

Historian Mike Silver wrote, (Ring Almanac, p 122, 1998) ***8220;There was kayo power in every one of Joe Louis punches, but the most important of all was the battering ram of a jab, which was equal in power to an ordinary heavyweights right cross.***8221;

Boxing historian and writer Ted Carroll summarized a potential Ali vs. Louis match-up, (Ring, July 1966), ***8220;Louis had one of the fastest right hands ever seen in a ring. It boomed out of his slow moving gait with the speed and suddenness of a rattler. Clay***8217;s defensive technique relies greatly upon leaning backward out of range of his opponent***8217;s blows. Against a right hand of Louis speed and power this would have been a highly dangerous maneuver and the current champion would have been flirting with disaster every time he tried it. It is possible to conceive Clay getting a decision over Louis in a bout that lasted the full 15 rounds. But it is not so easy to imagine his going the distance without getting tagged by Louis fast hands somewhere along the way. When that happened it could mean the end of everything right then and there for Muhammad Ali.***8221;

Carroll also noted that boxers with great footwork such as Conn and Pastor had given Louis trouble. But Ali was not as correct a boxer as Billy Conn or Bob Pastor. Ali had many faults in his style. Joe Frazier nearly knocked him out in the 11th round of their first fight as Ali exposed himself in the corner with his hands down. A crunching left hook, the punch that Ali was vulnerable to throughout his career, had Ali wobbling around the ring in serious trouble. Louis was a faster and by far a more accurate and powerful puncher than Frazier was. He was the finest combination puncher in heavyweight history, and possibly the greatest finisher. If Louis had Ali hurt the way Frazier did in the 11th round there is no way Ali would have survived.

Ali***8217;s legs were doing the ***8220;dance that puppets do when the guy with the strings is drunk.***8221; -Bob Waters, Newsday, Mar 1971

Had that been Joe Louis in there instead of Joe Frazier it would have been over! Louis was a deadly finisher and didn't let his man off the hook when hurt. The ***8220;Brown Bomber***8221; was the epitome of the hooded assassin. In fact the saying goes "Once Joe Louis had his man hurt...."

Foreman had Ali out on his feet by Muhammad***8217;s own admission (Ali pg. 406-409). George Foreman and Earnie Shavers were arguably heavier hitters than was Louis, but they were not nearly as explosive or quick with their hands. George and Earnie were limited fighters who ran out of gas in the later rounds. Foreman was the heavyweight destroyer non-pareil, who owned the first five rounds of any fight, but by the sixth he was done. Shavers tried to pace himself in his fight with Ali, and consequently failed to go after him after he had him hurt. Louis had 15 round stamina and kept his power into the late rounds. Louis was a constant knockout threat throughout a fight, while Ali only had to make it though the early rounds against Shavers and Foreman, who threw a lot of wild haymakers, wasting their limited energy. Louis didn***8217;t make that mistake, throwing short, jolting, economically sound punches. Louis would pick his shots and take apart any man who placed himself on the ropes.

The ***8220;rope-a-dope***8221; would not work against Louis, in much the same way it didn***8217;t work against Frazier in Manila. In that fight, he absorbed a terrible beating to the body.

***8220;Ali slumped into his corner at the end of the 10th round exhausted and contemplated quitting***8221;, Sports Illustrated, Oct 13, 1975.

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 09:10 PM
Louis would pressure Ali, like Frazier and Norton. Ali didn’t like pressure, as he preferred to box from the outside. Joe Louis once described how he would have fought Ali, The Ring, Feb. 1967:

“The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave. Especially in the middle if the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and bang him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “Kill the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived. Cassius Clay is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure Joe Louis would have licked him.”

Joe Frazier fought this battle plan mapped out by Louis in 1967 almost to perfection in 1971. Frazier began working the body early. He punished Ali along the ropes, and when his opening finally came (in the 11th and again in the 15th) Frazier took advantage. Smokin’ Joe failed to score a knockout that day but his victory was decisive. The plan almost worked in the third fight as well, Ali absorbed such a beating he said it was “the closest thing to death” that he had ever experienced.

Kenny Norton used a very similar plan. Eddie Futch always believed that Joe Louis had the correct style to exploit Ali's fundamental flaws. He trained Norton to use the same strategy he believed Louis would have employed. Futch instructed Norton, (Anderson p 235), “Your not going to hit Ali by slipping, dropping underneath or parrying. You have to hit him while he’s punching. When he starts to jab you punch with him. Keep your right hand high. His jab will pop into the middle of your glove and then your jab will come right down the pipe…that is what destroyed Ali’s rhythm.” Ali jabbing with his right hand out to the side made him vulnerable to a counter jab. A classic boxer with his rigth hand held in proper position could catch Ali's jab in his glove and counter, Ali would be helpless to avoid it since his hand was not in the correct position.

Futch further planned out the following, (p 235), “If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing.” Then Eddie told him what to do when he got Ali to the ropes, “Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands.” That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

Joe Louis trainer Jack Blackburn was a master boxer with over 160 pro fights, an all-time great lightweight who fought heavyweights. He was a genius at boxing strategy. Blackburn would have devised a plan to defeat Ali using the same strategy that Joe spoke of in 1967 and used by Futch with Norton. He would have seen the same weaknesses that Frazier and Norton used to defeat Ali. Ali did not hold his right hand in place to block the counter-jab. Chappie Blackburn would tell Joe, “he’s a sucker for a left jab.” Louis had the perfect classic style to defeat Ali. It would not matter that Ali’s jab would “get there first.” Joe would block Ali’s jab with his right glove held high, his chin tucked under his shoulder (see picture left) and counter Ali in the middle of his face with his own jab just as Norton did. He would use the jab to maneuver Ali to the ropes.

Goodman noted that Louis was a “master at cutting off the ring.”

Ali said, (The Greatest p 405), that he was forced to go to the ropes against Foreman, “All during training I had planned to stay off the ropes…but now I’ve got to change my plans. Sadler and Moore have drilled George too well. He does his job like a robot but he does it well…I’m famous for being hard to hit in the first rounds, but no fighter can last (dance) fifteen if he has to take six steps to his opponents three.”

Joe would put continuous physical and psychological pressure on Ali. Louis would cut off the ring and step Ali towards the ropes, where he would then pound the body. Muhammad would then begin to drop his hands. Blackburn would instruct him “when he drops his right hand to throw the uppercut, deliver the knockout drops with the left hook.” Joe Frazier exploited this same flaw when he dropped Ali in the 15th round of their first fight.

Eventually Louis would see an opening and strike. Goodman described a Joe Louis assault like this:

“There were no warnings with a Louis punch. He would lash out like a cobra, and it could be just as deadly.”

Jimmy Braddock was once asked what it was like to get hit by “The Brown Bomber’s” punch, “It ain’t like a punch,” Braddock said. “It’s like somebody nailed you with a crowbar!” -75 Years of The Ring, Vol. 3, No. 1, 1997 Section: The Best Puncher.

"All the blows in Joe Louis arsenal were so perfectly and precisely thrown every time that you get the sense watching him that he couldn't have been wild or sloppy if he tried." --William Dettloff in the 2004 Ring Almanac describing his selection of Joe Louis at #1 among the 100 greatest punchers of all time.

Louis punches were not just heavy punches like Foreman or Shavers but fast and explosive punches. Ray Arcel, one of the greatest trainers in history worked against Louis in 14 of his fights, said, (Anderson, 120), "Louis once drove Paulino Uzcudin's teeth right through his mouthpiece!" Arcel said it was the hardest punch he ever saw. Not Joe Frazier, not George Foreman, not Earnie Shavers had that kind of dynamite behind their punches.

Louis would catch Ali along the ropes with one of his most powerful and deadly hooks. Unlike Frazier, Joe Louis could throw a triple left hook with speed and power as he did against Max Baer. Ali’s legs would turn to jelly. Louis combinations would fire with piston like precision and the power of a human jackhammer. The speed of Louis assault would be mesmerizing. Ali would be battered unmercilessly and unceasingly until the referee was forced to call an end to the execution.

Some "analysts" never bother to study films and therefore don't see the technical flaws in Ali's style demonstrated in this article. Instead they make a pointless argument as to how well some of Louis opponents would have done against Ali or the quality of Ali's opposition as compared to Louis. It doesn't matter. Styles make fights. Billy Conn and Max Schmeling did not have Joe Louis physical attributes or his style. Ken Norton had the style to give Ali fits; a right parrying hand to block Ali's jab-a good left jab in return, pressure on the inside, a strong body attack and a good left hook that Ali was susceptible to. Joe Louis had all these attributes and was a faster and far more powerful and explosive puncher than Ken Norton was.

Joe Louis was not well prepared for some of his opponents because he didn't know much about them, but any fighter that gave Louis trouble the first time was destroyed in rematches. Louis was 10-0 in return engagements. Louis proved he could make the adjustments to defeat the weaknesses in an opponents style. Ali, despite all his innovativeness, never did understand why Norton gave him so much trouble. It was because Ali didn't know how to block a jab and Norton's trainer Eddie Futch knew how to exploit it. Eddie always believed that Louis had the style to beat Ali. In the March 1992 Ring, Futch picked Louis to stop Ali late in a mythical dream fight. I never understood why until I quit repeating the same old lame arguments and started really studying films. Joe Louis had the style to exploit Ali's technical flaws.

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 09:11 PM
In comparison to my original somewhat superficial thoughts from my 1991 letter a more thorough examination of the facts shows the following to be true:

While Ali is the fastest heavyweight ever, Louis was nearly as fast with his hands. Ali***8217;s many tactical mistakes would leave him open to one of Louis lightning-like strikes. His foot-speed and jab would be negated by Louis properly placed right parrying hand. Louis would render ineffective Ali***8217;s primary weapon, his left jab, and drive him to the ropes vis-a-vis Ken Norton.

Ali was a master of strategy against slow handed bruisers like Liston, Terrell, Foreman, and Shavers. He had more trouble with men with hand speed who could punch with him like Doug Jones, Norton, and Jimmy Young. Louis was superior in hand speed to any of these men. With the previously outlined strategy, which Blackburn and Joe would be sure to implement, Louis would not be at a strategic disadvantage against Ali.

Ali had a great chin, but he was not a diety. Nat Fleischer rated Joe Louis as the greatest finisher in ring history. Consider that Joe Frazier had Ali in serious trouble and he did not have Louis speed of delivery, combination punching ability, nor was he as deadly a finisher. Had it been Joe Louis he would have kayoed Ali in the first Frazier first fight, and also in the third. Liston, Foreman and Shavers were big punchers but slow of hand, and could not carry on a sustained assault for 15 rounds. Louis definitely would not tire and he was a more explosive and sharper puncher in the mold of a young Mike Tyson. Louis had real shock value in his punches. Ali***8217;s chin would have its greatest test not against Frazier or Foreman but against Joe Louis.

Ali was never beaten until a 3-year lay-off, but it was still close to his physical prime he was less than 2 months removed from his 29th birthday. Some would say he lost to Doug Jones, and he was nearly kayoed by Cooper so his unbeaten streak is not without tarnish. In comparing Ali when he retired at age 36 after beating Spinks his record was 56-3 with 37 kayos. Louis when he retired as champion at age 35 was 60-1 with 51 kayos. Louis also lost four of his best years due to WW2 just as Ali lost 3 ½ years in his forced exile. Overall Ali faced the better competition, but Max Schmeling (a first rate counter-puncher), Max Baer (one of the hardest hitters in division history), Arturo Godoy (never knocked off his feet in his first 70 pro fights), and Jersey Joe Walcott (one of the slickest boxer-punchers of all time) are better than anyone that Ali faced during his prime years, with the exception of Sonny Liston. Both Ali and Louis were dominant champions.

Ali had a slight edge in size over Joe. Ali was 6***8217;3***8221; 212 pounds in his prime, and had an 80-inch reach. Louis was 6***8217;1 ½***8221;, and about 207, his best weight in his rematches against Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. Louis had a 76***8221; reach. Louis height and reach is about the same as Evander Holyfield. Frazier was 205 in the first Ali-Frazier fight, so any physical advantage is void. Joe Louis had the hand speed, the jab, the power, the stamina, the ring smarts and the style to defeat Muhammad Ali. Joe Louis is the one man who would knock Muhammad Ali out!

************************************************** ************************************

References

Ali, M. with Durham, R. 1975. The Greatest My Own Story. Random House.

Anderson, Dave. 1991. In The Corner. NY. William Morrow and Co.

Boxing Scene. 1995 Spring. Tiger Press Inc. Palisades, NY. ***8220;Rocky Marciano vs. Joe Louis. Who Would Have Won In Their Primes?***8221; by Murray Goodman.

Ring Magazine. 1966 July. ***8220;How would Clay Have Done Against Stars of the Past.***8221; by Ted Carroll.

Ring Magazine. 1967 Feb. ***8220;How I Would Have Clobbered Clay***8221; by Joe Louis.

Ring Magazine. 1992 Mar. Battle of the Legends: Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Louis

Louis, J. with Rust Jr., A. and Rust, E. 1978. Joe Louis: My Life. Hopewell, NJ. Ecco Press.

ßringer
07-17-2009, 09:26 PM
Frankly speaking ; Joe Louis is a personal hero of mine.

As great as he was in the ring, I feel that he was an even greater human being.

He always carried himself with such dignity and humility, even in the face of tremendous adversity.

I have many boxers whom I consider to be somewhat inspirational.

Only Louis gets the title of "hero".

GJC
07-17-2009, 09:28 PM
Had it been Joe Louis he would have kayoed Ali in the first Frazier first fight

Good points would maybe question the above quote, great a puncher as Louis was not sure he could knock Ali out if that Frazier punch couldn't, that was a peach and Ali was down for what 2 seconds? Maybe a TKO but have my doubts on a KO to split hairs

Have always thought that Ali's unorthodoxness might have flummoxed Louis. For sure in their 1st fight maybe Louis would have got a handle on him in subsequent fights as he always did better after he had a look at them so to speak.

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 09:29 PM
Good points would maybe question the above quote, great a puncher as Louis was not sure he could knock Ali out if that Frazier punch couldn't, that was a peach and Ali was down for what 2 seconds? Maybe a TKO but have my doubts on a KO to split hairs

Have always thought that Ali's unorthodoxness might have flummoxed Louis. For sure in their 1st fight maybe Louis would have got a handle on him in subsequent fights as he always did better after he had a look at them so to speak.

The Trolls are no doubt going apesh1t over all this :rofl:

Poet

GJC
07-17-2009, 09:46 PM
The Trolls are no doubt going apesh1t over all this :rofl:

Poet
So what's the deal they can read it but not post?

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 09:51 PM
So what's the deal they can read it but not post?

Nope: I have them blocked from posting in my threads at the moment......so they can read but can't respond.

Poet

GJC
07-17-2009, 10:07 PM
Nope: I have them blocked from posting in my threads at the moment......so they can read but can't respond.

Poet
Excellent lol

Southpaw16BF
07-17-2009, 10:08 PM
<div><object width="480" height="381"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xo48y_joe-louis-vs-james-braddock-2206193_sport&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xo48y_joe-louis-vs-james-braddock-2206193_sport&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="381" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo48y_joe-louis-vs-james-braddock-2206193_sport">Joe Louis vs James Braddock 22-06-1937</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheHomelessDetective">TheHomelessDetective</a>. - <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/channel/sport">More professional, college and classic sports videos.</a></i></div>

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<div><object width="480" height="369"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xl7rm_joe-louis-vs-abe-simon-ii-27031942_sport&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xl7rm_joe-louis-vs-abe-simon-ii-27031942_sport&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="369" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl7rm_joe-louis-vs-abe-simon-ii-27031942_sport">Joe Louis vs Abe Simon II 27-03-1942</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheHomelessDetective">TheHomelessDetective</a>. - <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/channel/sport">Discover the latest sports and extreme videos.</a></i></div>

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Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 10:16 PM
Excellent lol

I admit that I've gotten tired of the trolls that have been slipping into the Boxing History section lately. To be honest I just haven't had the fire this week to go to war with them so I figured I'd make some threads that could be for peaceful and serious discussion without the Trolls ruining things.

Poet

GJC
07-17-2009, 10:21 PM
I admit that I've gotten tired of the trolls that have been slipping into the Boxing History section lately. To be honest I just haven't had the fire this week to go to war with them so I figured I'd make some threads that could be for peaceful and serious discussion without the Trolls ruining things.

Poet
Got to say I'm getting a bit tired with all this slag everyone off and now we seem to have a raging anti semite to join in with the nation of islam and aryan brotherhood. I just joined to talk about boxing and share views and learn some things this is getting me down a bit.

Ziggy Stardust
07-17-2009, 10:24 PM
Got to say I'm getting a bit tired with all this slag everyone off and now we seem to have a raging anti semite to join in with the nation of islam and aryan brotherhood. I just joined to talk about boxing and share views and learn some things this is getting me down a bit.

Yeah, I'm just not my usual feisty combative self right now. Got to have that fire in my belly to go toe-to-toe with the idiots and I'm just not feeling it right now.

Poet

Spartacus Sully
07-18-2009, 03:25 AM
thats a crazy neck exercise at like 4:50 in the 1st joe louis tribute. I think that more people should know such an exercise exists.

Thanks for the read and videos.

Sugar Ray Robinson, the greatest boxer ever.

Joe Louis a great man and a great boxer.

0Rooster4Life0
07-18-2009, 04:51 AM
Heres The Videos I Made For Both Joe and Ray.




JOE LOUIS
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a8UF0MIwc70&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a8UF0MIwc70&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
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P.S
Poet How do i Block these People? Id like to do it aswell, Im tired of it, and i Vote that we all do it, Drive these *******s out once and for All.

Ziggy Stardust
07-18-2009, 08:52 AM
P.S
Poet How do i Block these People? Id like to do it aswell, Im tired of it, and i Vote that we all do it, Drive these *******s out once and for All.

Simple: You place them on ignore. On the right hand side of your user control panel click on "Edit Ignore List". There's a box captioned "Add a Member to Your List... ", you put their name in there (make sure it's exact) then click OK. That person is now ignored and you won't see any of their posts.....and they won't be able to post in any thread that you start.

PS Choosing "Bring Me To Life" was perfect for the Louis Video.

Poet

mickey malone
07-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Simple: You place them on ignore. On the right hand side of your user control panel click on "Edit Ignore List". There's a box captioned "Add a Member to Your List... ", you put their name in there (make sure it's exact) then click OK. That person is now ignored and you won't see any of their posts.....and they won't be able to post in any thread that you start.

PS Choosing "Bring Me To Life" was perfect for the Louis Video.

Poet
In that case, can I drag them kicking & screaming to somewhere within the back drop of my realm, and torture them with copious regularity? A kinda commercial break between debates, for all concerned.. lol