View Full Version : Charles Burley vs Roy Jones JR


boxingbuff
07-17-2009, 07:30 PM
I think this would be a great match up,and exciting fight.

I would like your thoughts.

boxingbuff
07-17-2009, 07:55 PM
One quick story about Charles Burley.....

One day he was working at the factory he worked at.He got a call if he wanted to fight Archie Moore THAT NIGHT.Burley skiped out of work and caught some transportation to the arena to knock Archie Moore up and down on the canvas and all over the ring for a easy KO victory.

BTW-Eddie Futch said Burley was the greatest fighter he had ever seen.Better than Sugar Ray Robinsin,Muhammad Ali,Roberto Duran,Joe Louis....Better than them all Futch said.Archie Moore said Charles Burley was the best fighter he ever fought!!

There will be more stories about the "great" Charles Burley as this thread proceeds(Like as a Middleweight KNOCKING OUT good Heavyweights)I hope and discussion about a Charles Burley-RJJ fight!

boxingbuff
07-18-2009, 04:47 PM
Charley Burley (September 6, 1917 October 16, 1992) was a boxer of the 1940s, compiling a record of 83 wins (50 by knockout), 12 losses, and 2 draws with 1 "no contest". However, because he was so formidable, Burley was never granted a title shot by any of the welterweight and middleweight champions of that era and was also avoided by many of the top white contenders (Burley's father was black and his mother white). Among the fighters who "ducked" Burley were Hall of Famers Billy Conn (who fought Joe Louis for the heavyweight title), Frenchman Marcel Cerdan (who was supposed to face Burley in his American debut), Jake LaMotta (who had fought the likes of powerpuncher Bob Satterfield, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Holman Williams, who was Burley's greatest rival), and even Sugar Ray Robinson, considered by many boxing historians as the best pound-for-pound fighter of all time.
Of course, not everyone ducked the slick Pittsburgh warrior. Burley won two out of three matches against future welterweight champion Fritzie Zivic, defeated the great Archie Moore by decision, and easily defeated future NYSAC middleweight king Billy Soose. Burley also faced future heavyweight champion Ezzard Charles, but dropped two 10 round decisions to him (the bouts were contested within a five week period, sandwiching a fight against Williams). Another notable Burley fight was the one against heavyweight J.D. Turner, who outweighed him by around 70 lbs. "Turner, face beaten to raw beefsteak in six rounds, failed to answer the bell for the seventh." (The Ring, June 1942). Burley himself was never stopped in 98 bouts.
There exists only one near complete film of Burley in action: his second fight with Oakland Billy Smith in 1946. It shows a conservative counter-puncher taming a much larger opponent with relative ease.
Burley's former sparring partner A.J. "Blackie" Nelson offers this comparison: "I see a lot of Charley in this kid, Roy Jones Junior. Both had unorthodox styles, could hit you from any angle, both hard to hit. Charley jabbed more than Jones, if Jones would concentrate on boxing as Charley did, he would become an all-time great."
Eddie Futch, the great trainer, called Burley "the finest all-around fighter I ever saw."
Burley was named to the Ring Magazine's list of 100 greatest punchers of all time, elected to the Boxing Hall of Fame in 1983 and the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1992.
Burley was ranked 39th on Ring Magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years.
An exhibit at The Western Pennsylvania Sports Museum at the Pittsburgh History Center states that Burley was the model for the character Troy in August Wilson's play Fences.

Obama
07-19-2009, 02:44 PM
Burley would have confused the **** out of Jones. Recall the first Jones vs Griffin fight. The difference would be Burley doesn't get dropped, and when Roy gets caught, he feels it. Burley by UD or late KO.

JAB5239
07-20-2009, 06:27 AM
One quick story about Charles Burley.....

One day he was working at the factory he worked at.He got a call if he wanted to fight Archie Moore THAT NIGHT.Burley skiped out of work and caught some transportation to the arena to knock Archie Moore up and down on the canvas and all over the ring for a easy KO victory.

BTW-Eddie Futch said Burley was the greatest fighter he had ever seen.Better than Sugar Ray Robinsin,Muhammad Ali,Roberto Duran,Joe Louis....Better than them all Futch said.Archie Moore said Charles Burley was the best fighter he ever fought!!

There will be more stories about the "great" Charles Burley as this thread proceeds(Like as a Middleweight KNOCKING OUT good Heavyweights)I hope and discussion about a Charles Burley-RJJ fight!

With all due respect, Burley didn't stop Moore.

This fight would have to be at 160. Burley would be the smaller man, but more experience than the middleweight Jones. That said, I don't think this version of Jones has a problem with Burleys power. This would probably be a stinker, with Burley using his better classical skills against Roy's speed and reflexes.

Probably a very close fight, but I think Jones edges him with his ability to flurry and get in and out. My opinion of course is not set in concrete. Burley was a fantastic fighter who beat some great fighters. I just don't think he has the power to really trouble Roy. And if you couldn't keep Roy honest he could usually control the fight. I think it goes much like the Jones-Hopkins fight. Like I said though, my opinion could be swayed by better boxing minds than my own.

sonnyboyx2
07-20-2009, 07:34 AM
yes Burley was good BUT he did not have the ability or skills to beat the great Ezzard Charles, if Eddie Futch had not made that comment about Burley in the 90s, Burley would not have gotten the idolization he gets today

TheGreatA
07-20-2009, 08:52 AM
Futch saw them both and he thought Burley was the best he ever saw. He created a gameplan with which Montell Griffin troubled Roy Jones until the DQ.

I'm really not sure if Burley was all that much better than the other, less heralded members of the so-called "Murderer's Row" though.

To be fair, Burley was smaller than the likes of Lloyd Marshall, Jimmy Bivins and Ezzard Charles who all beat him but the smaller Bert Lytell and Holman Williams fought him on even terms.

I don't think there's any question about his punching power though, it's almost legendary. He supposedly sparred with avoided heavyweight contenders and regularly knocked them out. He battered and stopped the 220 lb heavyweight journeyman JD Turner in 7 rounds while himself weighing only 151 lbs.

Burley however was a cautious counter puncher who would patiently wait for his chance and didn't always go for the knockout.

I think it's difficult to make up any kind of prediction about this fight considering that we only have around 15 minutes worth of film of Charley Burley.

boxingbuff
07-20-2009, 04:36 PM
With all due respect, Burley didn't stop Moore.

This fight would have to be at 160. Burley would be the smaller man, but more experience than the middleweight Jones. That said, I don't think this version of Jones has a problem with Burleys power. This would probably be a stinker, with Burley using his better classical skills against Roy's speed and reflexes.

Probably a very close fight, but I think Jones edges him with his ability to flurry and get in and out. My opinion of course is not set in concrete. Burley was a fantastic fighter who beat some great fighters. I just don't think he has the power to really trouble Roy. And if you couldn't keep Roy honest he could usually control the fight. I think it goes much like the Jones-Hopkins fight. Like I said though, my opinion could be swayed by better boxing minds than my own.

My bad,Burley didn't KO Moore.But he did knock him down and won an easy 10 round UD.

McGoorty
09-14-2011, 02:52 PM
Charley Burley (September 6, 1917 October 16, 1992) was a boxer of the 1940s, compiling a record of 83 wins (50 by knockout), 12 losses, and 2 draws with 1 "no contest". However, because he was so formidable, Burley was never granted a title shot by any of the welterweight and middleweight champions of that era and was also avoided by many of the top white contenders (Burley's father was black and his mother white). Among the fighters who "ducked" Burley were Hall of Famers Billy Conn (who fought Joe Louis for the heavyweight title), Frenchman Marcel Cerdan (who was supposed to face Burley in his American debut), Jake LaMotta (who had fought the likes of powerpuncher Bob Satterfield, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Holman Williams, who was Burley's greatest rival), and even Sugar Ray Robinson, considered by many boxing historians as the best pound-for-pound fighter of all time.
Of course, not everyone ducked the slick Pittsburgh warrior. Burley won two out of three matches against future welterweight champion Fritzie Zivic, defeated the great Archie Moore by decision, and easily defeated future NYSAC middleweight king Billy Soose. Burley also faced future heavyweight champion Ezzard Charles, but dropped two 10 round decisions to him (the bouts were contested within a five week period, sandwiching a fight against Williams). Another notable Burley fight was the one against heavyweight J.D. Turner, who outweighed him by around 70 lbs. "Turner, face beaten to raw beefsteak in six rounds, failed to answer the bell for the seventh." (The Ring, June 1942). Burley himself was never stopped in 98 bouts.
There exists only one near complete film of Burley in action: his second fight with Oakland Billy Smith in 1946. It shows a conservative counter-puncher taming a much larger opponent with relative ease.
Burley's former sparring partner A.J. "Blackie" Nelson offers this comparison: "I see a lot of Charley in this kid, Roy Jones Junior. Both had unorthodox styles, could hit you from any angle, both hard to hit. Charley jabbed more than Jones, if Jones would concentrate on boxing as Charley did, he would become an all-time great."
Eddie Futch, the great trainer, called Burley "the finest all-around fighter I ever saw."
Burley was named to the Ring Magazine's list of 100 greatest punchers of all time, elected to the Boxing Hall of Fame in 1983 and the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1992.
Burley was ranked 39th on Ring Magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years.
An exhibit at The Western Pennsylvania Sports Museum at the Pittsburgh History Center states that Burley was the model for the character Troy in August Wilson's play Fences.
Without disrespect to Jones, I do think that Burley is a nightmare for Roy, and I think he would knock Roy out,...... There's no way for Roy to prepare for Burley, his style is totally absent today,.... his art is lost. From the film I saw on Charley, it points out Burley's stance, with his body leaning back and away, very much like Sandy Saddler, is the perfect one for the ring. Burley only left one open target. To initiate an attack on him is fraught with danger, he is the perfect counter-puncher, with at least 3 different targets opening up to him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then there's the other part to his game, he, like Robinson was not just a counter puncher with a big punch and brilliant combinations, but also a master at going on to the attack, Burley could go from defensive counter-puncher, to the fighter who can initiate first,...... take the initiative.................................. The other reason I pick Burley in this fight, is that he fought oh,...... at least 10 times as many good to great fighters...... the resume is just of a better quality....... It is Jones stepping up in class,..... not Burley.

McGoorty
09-14-2011, 02:58 PM
yes Burley was good BUT he did not have the ability or skills to beat the great Ezzard Charles, if Eddie Futch had not made that comment about Burley in the 90s, Burley would not have gotten the idolization he gets today
I disagree, If Burley was around now...... he would be the superstar of today./// no question about it........ probably the same goes for some others like Holman Williams..... That is such an ignorant statement, as if he's an idol of the general public today...... your whole post was all about face,...... basically in reverse of logic............

joseph5620
09-14-2011, 03:30 PM
Without disrespect to Jones, I do think that Burley is a nightmare for Roy, and I think he would knock Roy out,...... There's no way for Roy to prepare for Burley, his style is totally absent today,.... his art is lost. From the film I saw on Charley, it points out Burley's stance, with his body leaning back and away, very much like Sandy Saddler, is the perfect one for the ring. Burley only left one open target. To initiate an attack on him is fraught with danger, he is the perfect counter-puncher, with at least 3 different targets opening up to him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then there's the other part to his game, he, like Robinson was not just a counter puncher with a big punch and brilliant combinations, but also a master at going on to the attack, Burley could go from defensive counter-puncher, to the fighter who can initiate first,...... take the initiative.................................. The other reason I pick Burley in this fight, is that he fought oh,...... at least 10 times as many good to great fighters...... the resume is just of a better quality....... It is Jones stepping up in class,..... not Burley.



And vice versa. How would Burley prepare for Jones style?

McGoorty
09-14-2011, 03:58 PM
And vice versa. How would Burley prepare for Jones style?
I think his vast experience would do it...... they had more variety then.