Anyone who has seen "Bright Lights, Dark Shadows" knows what I'm getting at here ; the debate over whether or not Robinson could've beaten Fullmer in their 3rd fight back in December of 1960 had he gotten the the extra $10,000 he was demanding for the fight due to it being broadcast in Europe.

The story goes that Ray was set to get $50,000 for that fight, but he wanted an extra $10,000 once he found out it was also going to be broadcast in Europe.

Ray didn't get the money, and it was reported that he was very upset about that.

He then went on to fight Fullmer to a draw that night.

It's obvious that Ray was clearly past it at this point in his career.

But a lot of people believe that had Ray gotten the money he wanted, he would've been in a better frame of mind, and won that fight.

Not sure if this has been posted/discussed in here before, and I'm interested in everybody's take on this one.

If I recall correctly, according to the documentary he got the money, negotiating at the last second as he refused to walk to the ring until his demands were met.

If I recall correctly, according to the documentary he got the money, negotiating at the last second as he refused to walk to the ring until his demands were met.

I rewatched the Documentary just tonight, and I could've sworn it said otherwise.

Hold on a sec, and I'll skip to that part again and type out the exact quotes.

I remember this fight. I've seen it on ESPN classic a couple of times. I've scored it for Robinson each time. Can't remember what though

Directly from the documentary..........

Robinson was still a great attraction ; he was offered a fight against the Middleweight Champion Gene Fullmer in December of 1960.

Teddy Brenner (The Matchmaker) :

They were scheduled to go on at 10 o'clock, and at 10 minutes 'til 10:00 somebody came in and said that Ray was still in his street clothes, and that he said he wasn't going to fight.

I ran into the dresing room and I said "What's the matter, Ray? What's happened?".

He said "I'm not getting paid the right amount of money."

And I said "What do you mean you're not getting paid the right amount of money? You signed for $50,000.00."

And Ray says "Yeah, but for Television to be shown in the United States only, and I've been told it's being shown in England. So I want another $10,000.00 or else I don't go in the ring."

And I think we argued for 5 minutes, and lost the case, and Ray got into his boxing trunks and walked out and fought a draw with Gene Fullmer.

"It's entirely concievable that Robinson could've won that fight, and won the Middleweight title for a 6th time."



Hmm....

It does seem he implies that Ray got his way, and got the extra $10,000.00 that he was asking for.

What I find most interesting about it is the actual fight itself, and how close Ray actually came to pulling it off and winning the title for the 6th time ; despite being severely beyond his best years.

I remember this fight. I've seen it on ESPN classic a couple of times. I've scored it for Robinson each time. Can't remember what though

I've only seen it twice, myself.

But I scored it for Robinson both times, also.

I'm actually going to try to find a download of that one, as it's been a while since I've seen it. And do a bit of a round by round/scorecard deal on it.

Fullmer pretty much admitted he lost.

Fullmer pretty much admitted he lost.

Really?

That's news to me.

Wouldn't happen to have any links to any articles or interviews where he says it, would you?

Anyone who has seen "Bright Lights, Dark Shadows" knows what I'm getting at here ; the debate over whether or not Robinson could've beaten Fullmer in their 3rd fight back in December of 1960 had he gotten the the extra $10,000 he was demanding for the fight due to it being broadcast in Europe.

The story goes that Ray was set to get $50,000 for that fight, but he wanted an extra $10,000 once he found out it was also going to be broadcast in Europe.

Ray didn't get the money, and it was reported that he was very upset about that.

He then went on to fight Fullmer to a draw that night.

It's obvious that Ray was clearly past it at this point in his career.

But a lot of people believe that had Ray gotten the money he wanted, he would've been in a better frame of mind, and won that fight.

Not sure if this has been posted/discussed in here before, and I'm interested in everybody's take on this one.

That wasn't the only time Robinson did that. A fight with Charley Burley fell through when Ray tried to renegotiate at the 11th hour. A Basilio rubbermatch and a fight with Archie Moore also fell through because of his pay demands. He may have been the greatest, but he could also be a pain in the arse to deal with!

I've not seen the Fullmer fight in question for some time, but from what I remember Ray deserved the nod.

That wasn't the only time Robinson did that. A fight with Charley Burley fell through when Ray tried to renegotiate at the 11th hour. A Basilio rubbermatch and a fight with Archie Moore also fell through because of his pay demands. He may have been the greatest, but he could also be a pain in the arse to deal with!

I've not seen the Fullmer fight in question for some time, but from what I remember Ray deserved the nod.


It was on ESPN last night. I didn't score it but thought Robinson deserved it too. There were some messed up scores though. One judge had it 11-4 Fullmer. Another had it like 9-6 Robinson, and then there was the last who had it 8-8.

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It was on ESPN last night. I didn't score it but thought Robinson deserved it too. There were some messed up scores though. One judge had it 11-4 Fullmer. Another had it like 9-6 Robinson, and then there was the last who had it 8-8.
Good to see somethings never change lol.
I thought SRR shouild have got it too from my fading memory.

That wasn't the only time Robinson did that. A fight with Charley Burley fell through when Ray tried to renegotiate at the 11th hour. A Basilio rubbermatch and a fight with Archie Moore also fell through because of his pay demands. He may have been the greatest, but he could also be a pain in the arse to deal with!

I've not seen the Fullmer fight in question for some time, but from what I remember Ray deserved the nod.

Yeah, Ray was a real hard ass when it came to negotiations.

Well, for his time, anyway.

Looking at the sport today, and then looking at Ray ; I'd give damn near anything to go back to the days when all a fighter needed to keep him happy was an extra $10,000 or so.

Now we've got guys who won't get off their ass for less than 10 million. :nonono:

It was on ESPN last night. I didn't score it but thought Robinson deserved it too. There were some messed up scores though. One judge had it 11-4 Fullmer. Another had it like 9-6 Robinson, and then there was the last who had it 8-8.

Yeah, the scores were dreadful.

Some things never change. :lol1:

It's a damn shame Ray didn't get the nod and win that Middleweight strap for the 6th time. It wouldn't do much to effect his status because he's already considered the greatest to ever do it.

But for his own personal satisfaction.

One hell of a fighter, Robinson was.

There shall never be another.

With or without the right mindframe, I thought Robinson won the fight. Fullmer started too late, I think he said as much in the post fight interview.

great fighters dont duck top contenders on a regular basis throughout their careers like ray robinson did

great fighters dont duck top contenders on a regular basis throughout their careers like ray robinson did

man shut the **** up. All i've seen from you is you going around talking **** about great fighters. What top contenders did Ray duck on a regular basis? Ray has a great resume and great achievments. Show some damn respect and go spew your trash on NSB with the other mentally impaired posters.

great fighters dont duck top contenders on a regular basis throughout their careers like ray robinson did

You're obviously a troll, but for arguments sake why don't you count the number of great fighters he did get in the ring with and compare it to the ones he didn't. There is probably no other fighter in history who has fought as many greats as Robinson.