View Full Version : worst heavyweight champion of all time


kanch33
07-15-2009, 11:57 AM
Who do you think was the worst world heavyweight champion of all time.
For me this is the shortlist
ingemar johnson
leon spinks
who else would you say was the worst and is there anyone else that comes to mind.

p.s does anyone know how leon spinks lost his two front teeth ive been wondering for a while.

D-MiZe
07-15-2009, 12:00 PM
John Ruiz

:bigeyes:

TheGreatA
07-15-2009, 12:01 PM
Marvin Hart
Jim Braddock
Leon Spinks

Briggs & Rahman (linear).

Most of the titlists post-1980's if they count.

I believe Spinks lost his teeth when he was headbutted in sparring.

mickey malone
07-15-2009, 01:13 PM
Michael Bent
Francisco Damiani

fight_professor
07-15-2009, 01:15 PM
Worst on a P4P basis, or worst in a head to head sense against all other legit title holders?

Ruiz is pretty bad.

Leon Spinks is hard to top.

mickey malone
07-15-2009, 01:17 PM
Michael Bent
Francisco Damiani

Davros?
07-15-2009, 01:20 PM
Who do you think was the worst world heavyweight champion of all time.
For me this is the shortlist
ingemar johnson
leon spinks
who else would you say was the worst and is there anyone else that comes to mind.

p.s does anyone know how leon spinks lost his two front teeth ive been wondering for a while.

Ingemar Johansson wasn't to bad imo he was one dimensional but he had a decent resume. Guys like Leon Spinks, Micheal Bent, Bruce Seldon and Valuev were worse.

TheGreatA
07-15-2009, 01:24 PM
Ingemar Johansson wasn't to bad imo he was one dimensional but he had a decent resume. Guys like Leon Spinks, Micheal Bent, Bruce Seldon and Valuev were worse.

Agreed. Johansson was sensational for a while, having KO'd the champion Patterson and the number 1 contender Eddie Machen effortlessly. He had also beaten all the best British heavyweights Henry Cooper, Joe Erskine, Joe Bygraves.

Gettin Jiggy
07-15-2009, 01:26 PM
Agreed. Johansson was sensational for a while, having KO'd the champion Patterson and the number 1 contender Eddie Machen effortlessly. He had also beaten all the best British heavyweights Henry Cooper, Joe Erskine, Joe Bygraves.

johansson never had any love for boxing and while traning for patterson in the usa and his girlfirend with him!

mickey malone
07-15-2009, 01:46 PM
Worst on a P4P basis, or worst in a head to head sense against all other legit title holders?

Ruiz is pretty bad.

Leon Spinks is hard to top.
Spinks is a good call.. Who was the guy Briggs beat? Think his name was Sergei Lackovich or something, he looked pretty poor to.. Only saw the fight against Briggs though..

TredKiller
07-15-2009, 01:56 PM
Marvin Hart
Jim Braddock
Leon Spinks

Briggs & Rahman (linear).

Most of the titlists post-1980's if they count.

I believe Spinks lost his teeth when he was headbutted in sparring.

o c'mon greatA, braddock was the man,
gave us one of the biggest upsets in boxing history.

JAB5239
07-15-2009, 01:58 PM
John Ruiz

:bigeyes:

Worst on a P4P basis, or worst in a head to head sense against all other legit title holders?

Ruiz is pretty bad.

Leon Spinks is hard to top.

I get tired of hearing Ruiz's name whenever this subject is brought up. He sucks to watch, but was actually very effective and fought and beat plenty of the top names during his era.

To many people judge Ruiz on his style and not on his actual accomplishments.

-PedoBear-
07-15-2009, 01:58 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/bridget/valuev_1.jpg

JAB5239
07-15-2009, 02:05 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/bridget/valuev_1.jpg

Now that is a throw back fighter right there. All the way from the stone age!

1SILVA
07-15-2009, 03:11 PM
I get tired of hearing Ruiz's name whenever this subject is brought up. He sucks to watch, but was actually very effective and fought and beat plenty of the top names during his era.

To many people judge Ruiz on his style and not on his actual accomplishments.

One thing against Ruiz is that he lost the title twice to former Middleweight Champions. He did defeat Rahman and Holyfield, and was God awful to watch. His losses to Toney and Jones were one-sided and dreadful

mickey malone
07-15-2009, 03:21 PM
Valuev's the worst P4P, without a doubt.. Can't stand watching him..

Miburo
07-15-2009, 03:34 PM
Primo Carnera by far.

JAB5239
07-15-2009, 03:40 PM
One thing against Ruiz is that he lost the title twice to former Middleweight Champions. He did defeat Rahman and Holyfield, and was God awful to watch. His losses to Toney and Jones were one-sided and dreadful

At the same time, both have tested positive for steroids.

Im not saying they couldn't beat Ruiz with their natural talent alone, both are top 100 all time p4p fighters in my opinion. Ruiz is far from the worst champion, but he is far from the best too.

boxingbuff
07-15-2009, 04:21 PM
Primo Carnera(sp).....Hands down

Davros?
07-15-2009, 04:30 PM
johansson never had any love for boxing and while traning for patterson in the usa and his girlfirend with him!

Maybe so but that doesn't make him the worst. wins over Floyd Patterson, Eddie Machen, Henry Cooper, Brian London, Dick Richardson, Joe Erskine, Joe Bygraves and Archie McBride was decent better than Leon or Valuev's resume.

STILL_DETOX
07-15-2009, 04:33 PM
valuev
maskaev
ruiz
rahman
ibragimov
chagaev
corrie sanders

steve14
07-15-2009, 05:13 PM
Primo Carnera(sp).....Hands down

You guys beat me to it

TheGreatA
07-15-2009, 05:29 PM
o c'mon greatA, braddock was the man,
gave us one of the biggest upsets in boxing history.

He also held the title hostage for two years.

I really don't think Carnera was that bad, atleast as a champion. He won the title from Sharkey by a legit KO, a fight in which he absorbed some heavy punishment in, outpointed Paulino Uzcudun in every round in his first title defense, won a decision over Tommy Loughran and then lost the title to Max Baer in a courageous effort.

Compare his reign to Marvin Hart's, who won the title from a light heavyweight and lost it in his first defense to a middleweight Tommy Burns, or Leon Spinks' who won a decision over an old Ali and lost it to him in a rematch. Also Braddock who upset a lethargic Baer, didn't fight for two years and was KO'd by Louis in his first defense.

Dynamite Glove
07-15-2009, 05:29 PM
bruce seldon.

Miburo
07-15-2009, 07:12 PM
He also held the title hostage for two years.

I really don't think Carnera was that bad, atleast as a champion. He won the title from Sharkey by a legit KO, a fight in which he absorbed some heavy punishment in, outpointed Paulino Uzcudun in every round in his first title defense, won a decision over Tommy Loughran and then lost the title to Max Baer in a courageous effort.

Compare his reign to Marvin Hart's, who won the title from a light heavyweight and lost it in his first defense to a middleweight Tommy Burns, or Leon Spinks' who won a decision over an old Ali and lost it to him in a rematch. Also Braddock who upset a lethargic Baer, didn't fight for two years and was KO'd by Louis in his first defense.

It's hard to say what is legitimate and what isn't with Carnera. Mob corruption was a mainstay of his career and the only reason it took off in the first place.

▀ringer
07-15-2009, 07:21 PM
Valuev, Carnera, and pretty much most of the title holders from the 80's onward.

Guys like that make you think you could be Heavyweight Champion of the World.

Ziggy Stardust
07-15-2009, 09:39 PM
Maybe so but that doesn't make him the worst. wins over Floyd Patterson, Eddie Machen, Henry Cooper, Brian London, Dick Richardson, Joe Erskine, Joe Bygraves and Archie McBride was decent better than Leon or Valuev's resume.

A KO win over Machen is top-notch. Remember, Machen gave a prime Liston his toughest fight and nearly upset him.

Poet

boxingp4p
07-15-2009, 10:43 PM
Nikolai Valuev immediatelly comes to mind . He came frighteningly close to Marcianos undefeated streak fighting cans and i was glad he was beaten when he was

Dynamite Glove
07-15-2009, 10:45 PM
i wonder if eddie machen is related to that machen (the machen who was a 'scientific boxer') that boxed John L the distance?

Ziggy Stardust
07-15-2009, 10:46 PM
i wonder if eddie machen is related to that machen (the machen who was a 'scientific boxer') that boxed John L the distance?

Dunno.....good spot though.

Poet

TheGreatA
07-16-2009, 03:42 AM
It's hard to say what is legitimate and what isn't with Carnera. Mob corruption was a mainstay of his career and the only reason it took off in the first place.

I've seen those fights though, and they look legitimate to me.

His career was built up unlike anyone's before him (although much like most fighters' are today) with Carnera beating overmatched and perhaps at times paid off opposition, as well as receiving some gift decisions/disqualifications, but he did become a legit contender and later a champion.

JAB5239
07-16-2009, 04:33 AM
I've seen those fights though, and they look legitimate to me.

His career was built up unlike anyone's before him (although much like most fighters' are today) with Carnera beating overmatched and perhaps at times paid off opposition, as well as receiving some gift decisions/disqualifications, but he did become a legit contender and later a champion.

The Sharkey fight was definitely legit in my opinion. Both Sharkey and his wife never wavered when asked if that fight was "on the level". Watching the fight I see no reason not to believe them.

JAB5239
07-16-2009, 04:36 AM
bruce seldon.

If not one of the worst, you could put him atop the list of heavyweight champions with the least heart.

sonnyboyx2
07-16-2009, 12:59 PM
Hasim Rahman is the worst champion in history by a very long way

GJC
07-16-2009, 02:10 PM
Tony Tubbs is always worth considering.

mickey malone
07-16-2009, 02:27 PM
Tubbs is worth a mention, but he achieved more than some of the aforementioned.. Also had impressive hand speed for a corpulent fighter.. Rahman had the win over Louis & gave Tua a few problems, so I wouldn't deem him as the worst..

TheGreatA
07-16-2009, 02:38 PM
The Sharkey fight was definitely legit in my opinion. Both Sharkey and his wife never wavered when asked if that fight was "on the level". Watching the fight I see no reason not to believe them.

Everyone ringside (including Nat Fleischer and others) described it as a trendemous knockout punch on Sharkey's jaw. I'm sure they would have noticed if Sharkey had taken a dive.

Sharkey had also landed some of his best punches (similar to the ones he knocked Carnera down with in their first meeting) right before the knockout.

I believe Sharkey was the better fighter but he was dealing with a huge difference in size and had also seemingly lost interest in boxing by the time the rematch happened.

Ideal circumstances for a big upset.

http://i41.tinypic.com/35icgo1.jpg

Southpaw16BF
07-16-2009, 04:47 PM
Yeah, even do there is a dark cloud over Canera, and yes he was involved in ''Sketchey'' ''fixed'' fights. He wasn't quite as bad as some people make out.

He holds a legitimate KO victory over the much smaller Jack Sharkley for the heavyweight 1933-06-29, were even Jack said for years belive me it wasn't a fixed fight. Jack also held a win over him beating him on a UD and even scoring a knockdown in 1931 he also beat Tommy Loughran who weighed in at 186 to Carnera's 270 unbelivable size difference on 15 Rd decision.

And then came a fight against the roughed hard hitting Max Bear, in I fight which he showed plenty of heart and guts. To start things off early on in the fight, Max would wrestle Primo to floor and was fooling about with him, this would lead to primo breaking his ankle, but continued to fight taking abeating getting dropped 11 times but continued to get back up, until being tko'd in the 11. Do for parts of the fight he was outboxing Bear.

He also got up twice when Joe Louis knocked him down.

Now for me just off that performance alone he showed plenty of heart and courage. So maybe he was involed in some sketchey deal and maybe he was a circus act and was viewed by many as the worst hevayweight champion.

But Primo showed he had heart and courage, and did get two good wins even if they were over much smaller men, and if you watch the Joe Louis fight, early in the fight he showed a good long range jab. So even do yes there is a case for him being one of the worst ever heavyweight champions.

I think maybe people give him to much stick, when they hardly even do anything about him. And I do belive there has been worst champion than him, Bruce Seldon to name one.

Also Hall of Famer and former Jr Middlweight and Middlweight champion and Olympic gold medalist Nino Benvenuti said Primo was good man and a good fighter and will not have a wrong word said about him

Southpaw16BF
07-16-2009, 04:49 PM
Carnera was an extremely well-built man who possessed great strength and was quite mobile for such a large man; However, his chin was vulnerable to the type of power punch that the top heavyweight fighters were able to deliver

His punching was hindered somewhat by his heavy muscles but nevertheless he scored many knockouts due to his considerable strength and power; Primo began fighting in Europe and then migrated to the United States; Many observers felt that many of his wins were "fixed" due to some connections held by those managing him; This shadow of doubt has caused boxing people to question his true ability as a fighter

During his career, Carnera won the Heavyweight Championship of the World and defeated such men as Jack Sharkey, Tommy Loughran, George Godfrey, W.L. "Young" Stribling, Franz Diener, Paulino Uzcudun, Pierre Charles, Ernie Schaaf, King Levinsky, Vittorio Campolo, George Cook and Jose Santa

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_8wtM68GBAA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_8wtM68GBAA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kO0cndcdeY0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kO0cndcdeY0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/trEGY-q_IFA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/trEGY-q_IFA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

runerx10
07-16-2009, 04:50 PM
persnally if you ask me, no champion, is a bad champion, or worst champion

Southpaw16BF
07-16-2009, 04:52 PM
http://www.nd.edu/~joycecol/exhibits/winkexhibit/Carnera.710-5-84.jpg

http://digilander.libero.it/TRI_VELLA/Primo%20Carnera.jpg

http://www.comune.torino.it/archiviostorico/mostre/antologia_immagini_2004/img/gdp-sport-05.jpg

http://www.nd.edu/~joycecol/exhibits/winkexhibit/Carnera.710-5-80.jpg

Kid McCoy
07-16-2009, 06:15 PM
Who do you think was the worst world heavyweight champion of all time.
For me this is the shortlist
ingemar johnson
leon spinks
who else would you say was the worst and is there anyone else that comes to mind.

p.s does anyone know how leon spinks lost his two front teeth ive been wondering for a while.

Spinks was probably the worst of all the lineal champions, although I'd say Bruce Seldon runs him close, if anyone actually counts him.

Johansson wasn't that bad, probably underrated if anything. His straight right was a peach. Watch the first Patterson fight, where he frustrated Floyd with his jab and then timed Floyd's peek-a-boo style perfectly to land his right, the same punch that starched the undefeated and highly-rated Eddie Machen in his previous fight. Not saying he's one of the greats, but he doesn't deserve to be on this list.

sonnyboyx2
07-17-2009, 03:31 PM
lots of candidates for The Worst heavyweight champion of all time But Hasim Rahman has to take the honours... Rahman lost everytime he fought a fighter who was above Class C Rahmans KO losses was always spectactular, twice poleaxed by Maskaev, easily beaten by Ruiz and he was also Old Holyfields last name win... Rahman was the worst by far i cannot see him having much chance against the likes of Leon Spinks, Tony Tubbs, Carnera etc

mickey malone
07-17-2009, 03:46 PM
Well there's a fair bit of call for Rahman, but c'mmon, he KTFO a prime Lewis (& was briefly the baddest man on the planet lol) plus giving Tua big problems, I'd say, gets him out of it.. I think it should be between:

Bent
Damiani
Spinks

I mean, Spinks should be no3....

Gettin Jiggy
07-17-2009, 07:48 PM
leon spinks may have had potential. just never had no dedication to boxing!

sonnyboyx2
07-18-2009, 03:08 AM
Well there's a fair bit of call for Rahman, but c'mmon, he KTFO a prime Lewis (& was briefly the baddest man on the planet lol) plus giving Tua big problems, I'd say, gets him out of it.. I think it should be between

Bent
Damiani
Spinks

I mean, Spinks should be no3....


yes Rahman KOd Lewis but Lewis had a very suspect chin, Leon Spinks beat Muhammad Ali and it dont get better than that.... Bent & Damiani was only paper champions

mickey malone
07-18-2009, 11:23 AM
yes Rahman KOd Lewis but Lewis had a very suspect chin, Leon Spinks beat Muhammad Ali and it dont get better than that.... Bent & Damiani was only paper champions
Ok... We'll take Bent & Damiani as non runners then.. So, do you think that Braddock or Spinks were better HW's than Rahman? Or alternatively is it Seldon??

sonnyboyx2
07-21-2009, 12:21 AM
Ok... We'll take Bent & Damiani as non runners then.. So, do you think that Braddock or Spinks were better HW's than Rahman? Or alternatively is it Seldon??
Braddock, Spinks and Seldon i would favour to beat Rahman. . Leon Spinks was a good fighter, i have lots of his fights including his amateur fights and he was very good indeed, Leon fell apart after beating Muhammad Ali, we all know the Leon Spinks story.. But Rahman would be KOd by Spinks that i have no doubt about

DonTaseMeBrah
07-21-2009, 12:30 AM
that ugly Sasquatch nikolay valuev.

2nd place John Ruiz.

mickey malone
07-21-2009, 07:20 AM
Braddock, Spinks and Seldon i would favour to beat Rahman. . Leon Spinks was a good fighter, i have lots of his fights including his amateur fights and he was very good indeed, Leon fell apart after beating Muhammad Ali, we all know the Leon Spinks story.. But Rahman would be KOd by Spinks that i have no doubt about
That's cool with me.. Rahman is crap, but I'd say you think he's a hairs breath crappier than I do.. Maybe he'd DC Seldon, but I wouldn't put money on it.. Wonder what would happen, if he caught Valuev with the punch that KO'd Lewis, cos P4P, no one's that bad.. Jeez! I can't stand him..

bojangles1987
07-21-2009, 12:42 PM
The answer to this is obviously Nikolai Valuev. Can he even box or does he just lean on opponents until they can't support him?