View Full Version : Prime Tyson Vs Comeback Foreman


0Rooster4Life0
07-13-2009, 08:05 AM
This Matchup is one of my all time fav fantasy fights.. And should have happend.


Personaly i think George KOs Tyson within 8 rounds, Tyson was a machine and a great fighter in his Prime, But was hardly tested in a Brutal fight until he met Buster Douglas, Foreman is on a diffrent level, he could take punishment that would put 99.9% of men in Hospital.

I see Mike Coming out fast looking to KO Foreman but Foreman surviving, by round 3-4 George will Begin to Push Mike away and throwing Big uppercuts while Mike comes in, Mike was open to Uppercuts, once Foreman would Land one of those bombs Mike would be in trouble.

Thats My Opinion Though, Lets Hear Yours.



ROOSTER

bojangles1987
07-13-2009, 09:05 AM
This is much tougher to me than I would think it would be. Comeback Foreman was way too slow and not mobile enough to withstand Tyson, but he also would not go down. There is an extreme likelihood Comeback Foreman would die on his feet, but one nice right hand drops Tyson and leaves him on the canvas for that 10 count.

I'll say Tyson wins a TKO where George's health comes into play and the ref cannot let the fight go on.

0Rooster4Life0
07-13-2009, 09:15 AM
This is a video i just filmed off the TV from one of my old fight tapes, i just put it on Youtube and thought id share

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number6
07-13-2009, 09:33 AM
I think Tyson would be all over him like a rash. I understand the view that George may withstand an early storm and ko Tyson later on in the fight.

I just dont see him getting past the first half of the fight tho. I can see a similar ending to Tyson v Bruno 1. With Tyson unloading with bombs and Foreman being saved by the ref.

Even though it was a good fight, lets not forget how many shots Holyfield landed on George. A prime Tyson hits faster and harder than Evander thats for sure.

Southpaw Stinger
07-13-2009, 09:39 AM
It's hard to say what would have happend. Be interesting to see how Tyson would react being forced onto the back foot by big George and also how Foreman reacts to Tyson's speed.
The press release at the time seem to indicate that a Tyson - Foreman match up was going to happen in 1990. Tyson was to fight Douglas and after supposedly destroying Douglas, he was to face either Foreman or Holyfield. Given that Douglas was able to beat Mike in 1990 I would favour Foreman's chances pretty well at that time.

mickey malone
07-13-2009, 10:08 AM
I think Tyson would be all over him like a rash. I understand the view that George may withstand an early storm and ko Tyson later on in the fight.

I just dont see him getting past the first half of the fight tho. I can see a similar ending to Tyson v Bruno 1. With Tyson unloading with bombs and Foreman being saved by the ref.

Even though it was a good fight, lets not forget how many shots Holyfield landed on George. A prime Tyson hits faster and harder than Evander thats for sure.
If we're Talking Tyson 85 Vs Foreman 91.. Then I see it very similar to your good self, but in about the 10th or 11th.. No one would'a beaten Tyson in the mid 80's & I include Ali & Louis or a prime Foreman in this equation to.. He took my breath away.. No one ever did that either! Too fast, too spiteful & able to fight for 15 if need be.. He'd have been too much for a 40 year old Foreman.. Prime Foreman may have held on til the end, but would have still lost a wide DC.. The only way I see George doing a number on him, is if they'd fought one another during the 90's.. For example, if the Tyson who beat Brian Nielson fought the Foreman who beat Gerry Cooney, then Tyson gets KO'd mid way...

number6
07-13-2009, 10:20 AM
If we're Talking Tyson 85 Vs Foreman 91.. Then I see it very similar to your good self, but in about the 10th or 11th.. No one would'a beaten Tyson in the mid 80's & I include Ali & Louis or a prime Foreman in this equation to.. He took my breath away.. No one ever did that either! Too fast, too spiteful & able to fight for 15 if need be.. He'd have been too much for a 40 year old Foreman.. Prime Foreman may have held on til the end, but would have still lost a wide DC.. The only way I see George doing a number on him, is if they'd fought one another during the 90's.. For example, if the Tyson who beat Brian Nielson fought the Foreman who beat Gerry Cooney, then Tyson gets KO'd mid way...

Its hard to imagine that Foreman would be able to tag someone with the reflexes of a prime Tyson. I think a prime Tyson was quicker than the Ali that beat George.

I find it hard to imagine any fighter beating a prime Mike Tyson.

TheGreatA
07-13-2009, 10:23 AM
If we're Talking Tyson 85 Vs Foreman 91.. Then I see it very similar to your good self, but in about the 10th or 11th.. No one would'a beaten Tyson in the mid 80's & I include Ali & Louis or a prime Foreman in this equation to.. He took my breath away.. No one ever did that either! Too fast, too spiteful & able to fight for 15 if need be.. He'd have been too much for a 40 year old Foreman.. Prime Foreman may have held on til the end, but would have still lost a wide DC.. The only way I see George doing a number on him, is if they'd fought one another during the 90's.. For example, if the Tyson who beat Brian Nielson fought the Foreman who beat Gerry Cooney, then Tyson gets KO'd mid way...

I don't think Tyson would have been too successful fighting 15 rounds. He was not very confident in his abilities to go the distance and started pacing himself by the fourth and fifth rounds, thus rarely scoring any knockouts past the early rounds.

Old George may have been too slow but he was incredibly strong and may give Tyson some problems because of that. No one could make him take a step backwards and that includes Holyfield, Moorer, Morrison, Briggs, Cooney, Stewart, Cooper...

I could be entirely wrong with this comparison but I think the fight would go much like the Tyson-Bonecrusher Smith fight did except Foreman would show a lot more heart and make it more competitive. Smith had a couple of decent moments whenever he let his hands go but he mostly chose to hold onto Tyson the whole night, making it perhaps the most boring heavyweight title fight of all time.

TheGreatA
07-13-2009, 10:25 AM
Foreman would also get through Tyson's peek-a-boo defense with some of those sneaky uppercuts that he used to throw. His jab was so powerful that it used to go past the defense of his opponents', even if they blocked it.

number6
07-13-2009, 10:28 AM
It's hard to say what would have happend. Be interesting to see how Tyson would react being forced onto the back foot by big George and also how Foreman reacts to Tyson's speed.
The press release at the time seem to indicate that a Tyson - Foreman match up was going to happen in 1990. Tyson was to fight Douglas and after supposedly destroying Douglas, he was to face either Foreman or Holyfield. Given that Douglas was able to beat Mike in 1990 I would favour Foreman's chances pretty well at that time.

That wouldnt have been a prime Tyson to be fair.

Southpaw Stinger
07-13-2009, 10:30 AM
That wouldnt have been a prime Tyson to be fair.

Aye, but it would be a prime George right?

I was only saying that the closest the fight came to actually happening was in 1990.

number6
07-13-2009, 10:34 AM
Aye, but it would be a prime George right?

I was only saying that the closest the fight came to actually happening was in 1990.

Ah, i get you.

Ziggy Stardust
07-13-2009, 10:41 AM
If we're Talking Tyson 85 Vs Foreman 91.. Then I see it very similar to your good self, but in about the 10th or 11th.. No one would'a beaten Tyson in the mid 80's & I include Ali & Louis or a prime Foreman in this equation to.. He took my breath away.. No one ever did that either! Too fast, too spiteful & able to fight for 15 if need be.. He'd have been too much for a 40 year old Foreman.. Prime Foreman may have held on til the end, but would have still lost a wide DC.. The only way I see George doing a number on him, is if they'd fought one another during the 90's.. For example, if the Tyson who beat Brian Nielson fought the Foreman who beat Gerry Cooney, then Tyson gets KO'd mid way...

I have disagree with you there. "Prime" Tyson was beatable and probably by most of the ATGs. He looked unbeatable against the sad-sack competition he fought. In his case this is a classic example of how fighters who generate a lot of offense and get spactacular KOs against sub-par opposition ALWAYS get overrated by the fans.....who are then shocked when they inevitably get their butts kicked. If you name a good to great fighter who was known as for KOs you'll find that at one time or another they were labled "unbeatable". Liston, Foreman, Tyson among the Heavyweights.....Hearns and Trinidad among the Welters: You can come up with tons of examples. I would say a "prime" Tyson would have lost to the 1970s Foreman for no other reason than it's an EXTREMELY bad style matchup for Mike; same thing with Liston. I would take a prime Ali over Tyson easily and would pick a prime Holmes over him as well. Against Frazier I think it's even money. Had they fought in '90 or '91 I think Holyfield would have beaten him then as he did in '97. I would favor Tyson over Lennox and Bowe: 6 out 10 against each. I can't see either Klitschko doing well against him.

Poet

fight_professor
07-13-2009, 11:29 AM
Prime Tyson v 2nd Foreman is going Tyson's way. Too fast, too strong and George would be a degraded version of the awesome banger. Heart and chin may keep GF in there, but its getting stopped.

bojangles1987
07-13-2009, 12:35 PM
Bottom line is that prime Tyson would have to knock George out in the first 4 or 5, or Foreman is winning. Even the biggest Tyson fans have to admit he simply lost his confidence past the early rounds.

Comeback Foreman would not go down so Tyson would have to lay such a beating that the ref would have to stop it, and I think prime Tyson could do that.

mickey malone
07-13-2009, 12:58 PM
I don't think Tyson would have been too successful fighting 15 rounds. He was not very confident in his abilities to go the distance and started pacing himself by the fourth and fifth rounds, thus rarely scoring any knockouts past the early rounds.

Old George may have been too slow but he was incredibly strong and may give Tyson some problems because of that. No one could make him take a step backwards and that includes Holyfield, Moorer, Morrison, Briggs, Cooney, Stewart, Cooper...

I could be entirely wrong with this comparison but I think the fight would go much like the Tyson-Bonecrusher Smith fight did except Foreman would show a lot more heart and make it more competitive. Smith had a couple of decent moments whenever he let his hands go but he mostly chose to hold onto Tyson the whole night, making it perhaps the most boring heavyweight title fight of all time.
The only thing that separates it from the most boring fight was Smiths dominant flurry in the final seconds of the 12th.. Other than that, I agree.. In fact Smith kinda paved the way on how to beat him.. I appreciate what you're saying with regard to 15 & agree that this would not have been the case during the 90's.. But pre Douglas, he could'a still ran through a wall at the end of 12.. Smith didn't tire Tyson, he just frustrated him, by trying to win ugly.. most of the people on Boxing History are very knowledgeable, & as you rightly say, I could also be wrong, but this is just the way I see it... Regards mm

Benny Leonard
07-13-2009, 02:35 PM
The only thing that separates it from the most boring fight was Smiths dominant flurry in the final seconds of the 12th.. Other than that, I agree.. In fact Smith kinda paved the way on how to beat him.. I appreciate what you're saying with regard to 15 & agree that this would not have been the case during the 90's.. But pre Douglas, he could'a still ran through a wall at the end of 12.. Smith didn't tire Tyson, he just frustrated him, by trying to win ugly.. most of the people on Boxing History are very knowledgeable, & as you rightly say, I could also be wrong, but this is just the way I see it... Regards mm

Not so sure what Smith showed on how to beat Tyson.
He showed how to survive against him but that's about it.

He played defense most of the night to avoid taking punishment and Tyson won a wide UD Win because of it.

Tillis showed more on how to beat Tyson than anyone at that point but even then, it was also a building fight for a young Tyson because he had yet to go passed 6 rounds so his confidence was still shaky...but still some things you could pick up in that fight that may help you.


Opponents can do that with the best of fighters...even with Foreman.

That was the one fight that when mentioned to Tyson, Tyson always looked embarrassed by but only because Smith wouldn't fight back and he couldn't do anything about it. Why? Because unlike what many seem to think with Tyson breaking down his opponents to destroy him just from his work-rate, he actually needed openings and relied on his opponents to throw first. He's like an aggressive counter-puncher mostly. Sure, he can bang to the body when you are playing cover-up to get you to drop your guard but the key to Tyson was always to make you miss first and then counter off that.


One of the things that would bother me about Tyson going up against Comeback-Foreman by that time is that Tyson was basically training himself and game-planing himself which was a big dissapointment from what we were used to seeing. Tyson was still able to take punishment even after Douglas but it was more and more one shot at a time and trying to cover up. If Forced to fight, yeah, he would do that but that wasn't his first option. And his head-movement was still on the low point even when he fought Ruddock. He just didn't seem like he wanted to be there at that point but maybe that would have changed if he got his title back...not sure. A Belt does wonders for confidence.


Vulnerabilities of Foreman: Slow; not that hard to land a jab on him if you have a solid jab; Could be thrown off balance when punched; threw very wide punches; had a tendency to stick his arms out when trying to keep you off when being punched. Could also be vulnerable by combination punches. Holyfield even hurt him this way.

I also wonder if his power had dipped from his younger days. The younger version of Foreman had more speed and flexibility which helps with power...as well as just being younger and having that extra spark.

Strengths of Big George: Still had a powerful jab and powerful punches; solid chin; stamina was good because he was more relaxed; still had great determination. Strong as an OX.


The advantages that a trained Tyson had (but wasn't going to be going up against come-back Foreman) was that he could use a heavy fast sharp jab when he needed to/told to...had pin-point accuracy; could throw in fast sharp powerful combinations; nice head-movement; had the spark; arsenal of punches; game-plan; etc.

But I do agree that even Tyson when trained with Rooney can be overrated by some and there are some questions that weren't answered as far as being tested on the absolute highest level of competition.

Benny Leonard
07-13-2009, 02:55 PM
This Matchup is one of my all time fav fantasy fights.. And should have happend.


Personaly i think George KOs Tyson within 8 rounds, Tyson was a machine and a great fighter in his Prime, But was hardly tested in a Brutal fight until he met Buster Douglas, Foreman is on a diffrent level, he could take punishment that would put 99.9% of men in Hospital.

I see Mike Coming out fast looking to KO Foreman but Foreman surviving, by round 3-4 George will Begin to Push Mike away and throwing Big uppercuts while Mike comes in, Mike was open to Uppercuts, once Foreman would Land one of those bombs Mike would be in trouble.

Thats My Opinion Though, Lets Hear Yours.



ROOSTER

What Douglas proved about Tyson was that Tyson was at a big disadvantage when training himself which could and did lead to him living a decadent life-style with poor training habits which including ballooning up 40+ pounds between fights (which was different from the normal 15 pound increase at his peak) because he was inactive and allowed to do what he wanted. That when not trained, he was declined overall boxer/fighter with no true game-plan.
All this while trying to battle a 6'3+, 230 pound athletic boxer who was well trained and motivated that had a solid jab and powerful punches (which according to McCall were harder than Lennox's punches).

Floyd Patterson's note to Tyson was...."Remember what got you there."


Now could that version of Douglas have troubled a well trained Tyson even with Rooney? Yeah, probably, but I don't think it is the same results as we saw an unfit Tyson had against him.
I still think Douglas should have given Tyson the rematch that he wanted.

mickey malone
07-13-2009, 03:09 PM
I have disagree with you there. "Prime" Tyson was beatable and probably by most of the ATGs. He looked unbeatable against the sad-sack competition he fought. In his case this is a classic example of how fighters who generate a lot of offense and get spactacular KOs against sub-par opposition ALWAYS get overrated by the fans.....who are then shocked when they inevitably get their butts kicked. If you name a good to great fighter who was known as for KOs you'll find that at one time or another they were labled "unbeatable". Liston, Foreman, Tyson among the Heavyweights.....Hearns and Trinidad among the Welters: You can come up with tons of examples. I would say a "prime" Tyson would have lost to the 1970s Foreman for no other reason than it's an EXTREMELY bad style matchup for Mike; same thing with Liston. I would take a prime Ali over Tyson easily and would pick a prime Holmes over him as well. Against Frazier I think it's even money. Had they fought in '90 or '91 I think Holyfield would have beaten him then as he did in '97. I would favor Tyson over Lennox and Bowe: 6 out 10 against each. I can't see either Klitschko doing well against him.

Poet
Well it's virtually impossible to agree on everything, but I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.. I'd suggest that the division then, was a lot better than it is now, but maybe not as good as during the 90's.. Even so.. Who could travel the distance with him? Going into the early 90's, there were only 3.. Smith, Tucker & Ruddock (not including pre championship ie Tillis & Green) Then there were devastating KO's for everyone else, a lot of whom had never been KO'd before.. Where I disagree, is that it would be Tysons style that would be a nightmare for Foreman, as opposed to the other way round.. Are there any common opponents? Alex Stewart was no slouch, & he turned Foremans head into a pumpkin where as Tyson dispached him in a couple of minutes.. It also has to be noted that Stewarts style was not too unlike Foremans.. Tyson also dealt with Lou Savrese in compatible fashion, although granted, that was during the early 90's I think..
The only other one I can think of is Holyfield, who beat both of them, Tyson, far more covincingly, but I've already stated that 90's Tyson wasn't a shadow of the 80's version.. Foreman is similar to Hopkins in that there isn't a lot of difference between prime, & past prime, if so, it hasn't shown up to dramaticaly in results.. Both have lost a bit of speed, that's all.. With Tyson, he was unbeatable in his prime, but because of his lifestyle, it only lasted a few years.. No he really was unbeatable.. I've boxed, I've been in & around boxing all my life, I've had more street tare ups than an alley cat, spent countless hours, studying the old,old school, been to prison & I have never seen anything like it, much the same as a peak RJJ or SRR.. Completely unique.. With respect, but Joe Frazier would'a been lucky to get to the 6th.. Tyson almost was Frazier, but with about 15%/20% more in every department.. And, from my life's experiences I'd lay my house he'd have totally fvcked Liston, & so would Foreman..
The 84 to 88 Tyson KO'd people & then KO'd them again b4 they hit the deck.. These are the common denominators.. Neither fighter likes to take a backward step & both like to control the fight.. I took note that during the 2nd coming of Foreman, he'd often fight off the ropes when he needed a rest.. The younger Foreman didn't do this.. Against a prime Tyson, I think it's fair to say that Foreman would need to move a bit faster & in general, work harder.. This would mean him employing this tactic.. This was also Tysons jewel.. In my opinion, this was the mistake made by 90% of his victims.. Because of his age, he'd have no choice, he'd be stopped for sure, but probably on his feet.. Just to reiterate Hopkins, he now does this also, but there aint no 80's Tyson in the lower weight divisions at the moment.. Remember, all of the fighters who beat Mike, stayed off the ropes & engaged him centre ring.. A 40 something Foreman would only be able do this in short bursts, as perfectly illustrated Vs Moorer.. Now what would 80's Tyson do to Moorer? I really don't think anyone needs to answer that, well I hope not lol..
I can only agree to Foreman winning in 2 scenarios: 1. If they fought in the 90's and 2. If they fought right now lol..

With regard to Prime Vs Prime, I'll reluctantly agree 50%: Foreman early or Tyson late.. Regards mm

MANGLER
07-13-2009, 03:13 PM
If Tyson had 12 rd stamina, he coulda won. But I think George in his comeback would stop him.

lefthook_86
07-13-2009, 03:35 PM
i actually believe that this fight would have gone the distance..tyson winning on the basis of his workrate
this fight would also be extremely damaging for the career of both guys..thats the kind of fight that causes brain damage..

Abstraction
07-13-2009, 04:05 PM
Comeback Foreman could take a lot more than he could in his Prime, which is the funny thing.

That said, come on...

Prime Tyson by TKO

res
07-13-2009, 04:52 PM
Not sure. The only speed Tyson would have here is offensive speed, not too much defensive speed because both fighters coming forward continuously would keep the fight in tight. Thus we have an inside brawl. Foreman's advantage is his chin, Tyson his ability to send more punches at Foreman. We know Tyson can take punches, but our knowledge of how much he can take and give at the same time is limited. He took a whole lot from Lewis but he couldn't give while he was taking. The key is how much you can take while still being productive.

0Rooster4Life0
07-13-2009, 07:37 PM
Comeback Foreman could take a lot more than he could in his Prime, which is the funny thing.

That said, come on...

Prime Tyson by TKO


I disagree with that,

Most people who think Foreman could take less in his Prime usually use the Ali fight as evidence, But in that FIght Foreman Took ALOT of shots, the reason no one notices them is because Foreman didnt react to them lol. Exaustion Beat Foreman, His chin was not the reason he lost.



Prime Foreman could take the same punishment as Comeback George. which is AMAZING in its self. Holyfield Landed his Best shots on George, Shots that stopped Tyson, And George took it all, and at times he didnt even Budge from them, its incredible.


ROOSTER

Abstraction
07-13-2009, 07:38 PM
Not sure. The only speed Tyson would have here is offensive speed, not too much defensive speed because both fighters coming forward continuously would keep the fight in tight. Thus we have an inside brawl. Foreman's advantage is his chin, Tyson his ability to send more punches at Foreman. We know Tyson can take punches, but our knowledge of how much he can take and give at the same time is limited. He took a whole lot from Lewis but he couldn't give while he was taking. The key is how much you can take while still being productive.

er..

Newsflash dude, Tyson was way way over the hile Post Prison. Let alone 7 years later when he faced Lewis.

Tyson's record before prison was 41-1.
Post prison was 9-4

Tyson had a freakishly strong chin, but very poor "heart".

That said, he had no reason to lose confidence against an old Foreman (or Prime Foreman).

Something Tyson was weak against tall and fast boxers. Hence the Tillis bout.

Foreman was tall, but was very slow. He may land a few, but he would need combo's to get Tyson to implode. Which imo, won't happen.

rezin
07-13-2009, 09:27 PM
i think mike would be too fast for him, but if foreman caught mike with a big uppercut he could be seeing stars

them_apples
07-13-2009, 09:51 PM
A prime George would beat him, an old George wouldn't though. holyfield was able to land flush at least 15 times in a row, almost knocked him down, but George is so tough he stayed standing. Mike hits a fair bit harder than Holyfield, so chances are the ref would step in or he might actually go down early on and not get up.

Prime George dismantles Tyson probably in 4 rounds. Bad matchup. Tyson never faired well against a good uppercut, and Foreman had a great one.

RightCross94
07-13-2009, 10:03 PM
George stops him late

George had an iron chin and was incredibly strong, tyson blitzes him for 4-5 rounds, george takes it and keeps throwing back steadily...as the fight goes on george takes control and stops him

george was only ever stopped once, when he was exhausted as all hell vs ali

Benny Leonard
07-13-2009, 11:58 PM
I disagree with that,

Most people who think Foreman could take less in his Prime usually use the Ali fight as evidence, But in that FIght Foreman Took ALOT of shots, the reason no one notices them is because Foreman didnt react to them lol. Exaustion Beat Foreman, His chin was not the reason he lost.



Prime Foreman could take the same punishment as Comeback George. which is AMAZING in its self. Holyfield Landed his Best shots on George, Shots that stopped Tyson, And George took it all, and at times he didnt even Budge from them, its incredible.


ROOSTER

That's true: Foreman was KO'd more from exhaustion than anything else.

One thing Holyfield also pointed out on why he would beat Tyson was because Tyson hadn't taken punches in his return fights leading up to him {Holyfield}. And similar to Foreman vs. Ali, believe it or not, Tyson according to his trainer at the time, didn't train much for the bout. He was amazed Tyson even lasted as long as he did. Holyfield was also bulked up for the Tyson fight. Tyson was taking punches and head-butts...not that Tyson wasn't doing his own back.

You can read the article about Tyson's training habits post-prison here:

http://espn.go.com/columns/wojnarows...n/1317765.html


Yes, Foreman took some huge shots from Holyfield but at certain points he did look hurt a bit...specifically the barrage of punches that Holyfield unloaded on him.
Either way, they were clean shots that were amazing to see someone take and still stand.


One thing to point out though is...Did Tyson have the confidence to face Foreman at that point?
Being in peak shape and have a game-plan does wonders for confidence. Did he still have that when he would have faced Foreman?
Maybe it wouldn't matter because Tyson would be forced to fight like he did against Ruddock and maybe he could see something in Foreman once he steps through the ropes and starts fighting and landing, but....Foreman's a Big MF.

Benny Leonard
07-14-2009, 12:04 AM
How about Comeback Foreman vs. Frazier (when Joe met the younger Foreman)?

Or Marciano vs. Comeback Foreman?

Or Liston vs. Comeback Foreman?

Or {Fill in the blank from a historic figure}

0Rooster4Life0
07-14-2009, 01:50 AM
That's true: Foreman was KO'd more from exhaustion than anything else.

One thing Holyfield also pointed out on why he would beat Tyson was because Tyson hadn't taken punches in his return fights leading up to him {Holyfield}. And similar to Foreman vs. Ali, believe it or not, Tyson according to his trainer at the time, didn't train much for the bout. He was amazed Tyson even lasted as long as he did. Holyfield was also bulked up for the Tyson fight. Tyson was taking punches and head-butts...not that Tyson wasn't doing his own back.

You can read the article about Tyson's training habits post-prison here:

http://espn.go.com/columns/wojnarows...n/1317765.html


Yes, Foreman took some huge shots from Holyfield but at certain points he did look hurt a bit...specifically the barrage of punches that Holyfield unloaded on him.
Either way, they were clean shots that were amazing to see someone take and still stand.


One thing to point out though is...Did Tyson have the confidence to face Foreman at that point?
Being in peak shape and have a game-plan does wonders for confidence. Did he still have that when he would have faced Foreman?
Maybe it wouldn't matter because Tyson would be forced to fight like he did against Ruddock and maybe he could see something in Foreman once he steps through the ropes and starts fighting and landing, but....Foreman's a Big MF.


I agree , The end of the 3rd round Foreman Looked close to going down also in round 9 (or 10, havent seen the fight for a long time) Foreman looked close to going down. But once the round was over Foreman went back to his corner Didnt sit down, He just stood there casual and then JOGGED out for the next round.


And there were points in the fight where Evander was Really Hurt But Foreman couldnt land the finishing shots, Thats mostly due to the Side to side Movement Holyfield used. ( Tyson wouldnt use side to side Movement, He would be right infront of George ). There was a point in the fight i beleave it was round 2, where Foreman had Holyfield Really Hurt, George went for the KO, he threw a Big Jab which landed clean then followed with a BIG Right Hand and then a Huge Left uppercut, But Due to the big Jab Foreman landed it Pushed Evanders head so far back that Foreman Missed the 2 finishing shots because Holy was out of Range.



ROOSTER

mickey malone
07-14-2009, 05:51 AM
er..

Newsflash dude, Tyson was way way over the hile Post Prison. Let alone 7 years later when he faced Lewis.

Tyson's record before prison was 41-1.
Post prison was 9-4

Tyson had a freakishly strong chin, but very poor "heart".

That said, he had no reason to lose confidence against an old Foreman (or Prime Foreman).

Something Tyson was weak against tall and fast boxers. Hence the Tillis bout.

Foreman was tall, but was very slow. He may land a few, but he would need combo's to get Tyson to implode. Which imo, won't happen.
Good example!

We also have to remember, that a lot of Foremans comeback fights went the distance.. IE.. Holyfield, Stewart, Schultz, Savarese, Morrison, & Grimsley..

With the exception of Holyfield... What happens to the rest of these guys against 80's Mike?? Surely, I don't have to spell it out lol...

90's Foreman spent too much time fighting off the ropes.. 90% of Tysons victims were KO'd on the ropes... It can't be any more obvious.. Or can it??

BEEHOP
07-14-2009, 07:20 PM
Prime Tyson-maybe not. But post-douglas maybe, and probably post Holyfield

BEEHOP
07-14-2009, 07:21 PM
Who would win right now??

Ziggy Stardust
07-14-2009, 07:32 PM
Good example!

We also have to remember, that a lot of Foremans comeback fights went the distance.. IE.. Holyfield, Stewart, Schultz, Savarese, Morrison, & Grimsley..

With the exception of Holyfield... What happens to the rest of these guys against 80's Mike?? Surely, I don't have to spell it out lol...

90's Foreman spent too much time fighting off the ropes.. 90% of Tysons victims were KO'd on the ropes... It can't be any more obvious.. Or can it??

Here's the 500 pound gorrilla in the room were "Old" Foreman was concerned: Moorer was the last fighter he knocked out and most of those fights that went the distance came after that. After the Moorer fight his reflexes deteriorated and he got even slower than he had been in the late '80s early '90s. All the power in the world won't help you when you can't land it cleanly because your reflexes are shot or you're so slow opponents can easily avoid your shots.

Poet

0Rooster4Life0
07-15-2009, 04:56 AM
Agree with you Poet,
you beat me to it.


He was getting slower after the Moorer fight, even in the fight with Moorer he was slower, and was lucky that he had the power to win the fight.

But if we cant matchup Foreman Vs "Post" prison Tyson, then we cant match Tyson with Post Holyfield.


In my opinion neither Holyfield Nor Foreman were the same after there fight.

TheGreatA
07-15-2009, 05:05 AM
Good example!

We also have to remember, that a lot of Foremans comeback fights went the distance.. IE.. Holyfield, Stewart, Schultz, Savarese, Morrison, & Grimsley..

With the exception of Holyfield... What happens to the rest of these guys against 80's Mike?? Surely, I don't have to spell it out lol...

90's Foreman spent too much time fighting off the ropes.. 90% of Tysons victims were KO'd on the ropes... It can't be any more obvious.. Or can it??

I can't say I've ever seen Foreman fight off the ropes. Which fight was this?

For the most part all of those fighters you listed ran from Foreman.

mickey malone
07-15-2009, 06:45 AM
I can't say I've ever seen Foreman fight off the ropes. Which fight was this?

For the most part all of those fighters you listed ran from Foreman.
Ok... Took breaks on the ropes during the later rounds.. This happened in all of the fights I've mentioned against some of the guys that Tyson KO'd in 1 round.. That's why they went the distance, when they shouldn't have..
Foreman, & his trainers basicaly employed this technique against anyone he could'nt get outta there quick, as he was adept at blocking punches with those tree trunk arms, sometimes crossing them (Norton style).. The young Foreman never did this, that's why everyone got KTFO.. Tyson didn't have to, cos he was prime.. The older Tyson couldn't do it, that's why his come back was far less successful than Foremans.. I'm surprised that you never picked up on this... Another example is Bernard Hopkins, he does it to, & I wouldn't be surprised if he took a leaf outta Foremans book, cos it's the best way of putting miles on the clock when your experience out weighs your prime abilities..
If anyone ran from 90's Foreman, they sure as hell couldn't run from 80's Tyson, which is why I think this thread is cut & dried.. The thought of 90's Foreman winning is absolutely preposterous..

TheGreatA
07-15-2009, 09:51 AM
Ok... Took breaks on the ropes during the later rounds.. This happened in all of the fights I've mentioned against some of the guys that Tyson KO'd in 1 round.. That's why they went the distance, when they shouldn't have..
Foreman, & his trainers basicaly employed this technique against anyone he could'nt get outta there quick, as he was adept at blocking punches with those tree trunk arms, sometimes crossing them (Norton style).. The young Foreman never did this, that's why everyone got KTFO.. Tyson didn't have to, cos he was prime.. The older Tyson couldn't do it, that's why his come back was far less successful than Foremans.. I'm surprised that you never picked up on this... Another example is Bernard Hopkins, he does it to, & I wouldn't be surprised if he took a leaf outta Foremans book, cos it's the best way of putting miles on the clock when your experience out weighs your prime abilities..
If anyone ran from 90's Foreman, they sure as hell couldn't run from 80's Tyson, which is why I think this thread is cut & dried.. The thought of 90's Foreman winning is absolutely preposterous..

I don't really remember him being against the ropes in any of his fights except for maybe a few moments. He was always plodding forward whatever punches you would throw at him.

I don't think anyone can argue against that Tyson was much, much faster than Foreman was at that point of his career. That's why he was able to get some of the men Foreman fought early on. Against Foreman, a 40+ year old man, they could pretty much just run from him and go the distance.

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mickey malone
07-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Fair comment, have observed the vids that mainly show the last round or 2, where he trades in the center.. Won't split hairs by saying that he's attempting an eye catching finish, but there ain't much need to run as he's almost fighting in slow motion.. No examples of him on the ropes, with what's available, so I can't prove it.. Haven't got a clue on how to download vids either, but I do remember George doing this, maybe not as often as I first thought though..

Gettin Jiggy
07-15-2009, 01:47 PM
prime tyson takes this!

0Rooster4Life0
07-15-2009, 08:48 PM
Fair comment, have observed the vids that mainly show the last round or 2, where he trades in the center.. Won't split hairs by saying that he's attempting an eye catching finish, but there ain't much need to run as he's almost fighting in slow motion.. No examples of him on the ropes, with what's available, so I can't prove it.. Haven't got a clue on how to download vids either, but I do remember George doing this, maybe not as often as I first thought though..



I have watched All of George's Comeback, and i honestly can not remember him using a tactic of Laying on the Ropes, He was Usually chasing his oponent. and after the Holyfield fight it was much easier to run away from him. Thats why fights went longer. Tyson KOed them Faster Because he could catch them, George Couldnt.


But George gave a PRIME Evander a tougher fight then Mike Tyson gave an OLDER Evander.


This fight would not be so easy, I remember seeing news footage before the Evander fight, they were laughing at George the whole time, They thought it would be easy, and it turned out to be Hell for Holyfield.


A factor in this fight would be intimidation, i think Mike would be alittle intimidated of George, Mike studied the older fighters, and the thoughts of George would be in his mind, also the fact that Cus spoke highly on George and was noted to have said Mike wouldnt beat a Man like George Foreman.


Although George was slower He has an 2 advantages.
1) He has Much more Power
2) Mike wouldnt Run, He would be right in front of him.


No man in Foremans comeback stood Toe to toe with him and survived.


This would not be a white wash, this would be a tough fight. I know ALOT on George Foreman, ive seen every fight nearlly, interviews, training etc. The man was out of this world, even though he was a clown outside the ring in his comeback , he ment businuss, and Tyson would Not KO him fast and easy.


ROOSTER

Jim Jeffries
07-15-2009, 09:18 PM
Prime Tyson has the edge, but I'm pretty sure George would've beat the version that fought Buster Douglas.

Infern0
07-15-2009, 09:28 PM
The Tyson who lost to douglass WAS prime Tyson

Big George by Ko

Dynamite Glove
07-15-2009, 10:46 PM
Old George would take him out within 8

Miburo
07-16-2009, 01:24 AM
If Tyson fought smartly he could decision him. He would have to change up his style though, as going straight at Foreman, even the old version, is tantamount to dancing with death.

0Rooster4Life0
07-16-2009, 03:35 AM
The Tyson who lost to douglass WAS prime Tyson

Big George by Ko


Thats a debate that Tyson fans like to make. I agree with you to a point.


Just because Tyson Lost doesnt mean he was out of his Prime, Thats just idiotic.


Tyson fought well against Douglas, I give Mike credit, he took ALOT of shots, but He did fight well.


Douglas Lost his mother a week before the fight i beleave. so he did it for his Mom, and didnt quit, He just out toughed Mike, That doesnt mean Mike was out of his Prime.


ROOSTER

mickey malone
07-16-2009, 07:28 AM
Thats a debate that Tyson fans like to make. I agree with you to a point.


Just because Tyson Lost doesnt mean he was out of his Prime, Thats just idiotic.


Tyson fought well against Douglas, I give Mike credit, he took ALOT of shots, but He did fight well.


Douglas Lost his mother a week before the fight i beleave. so he did it for his Mom, and didnt quit, He just out toughed Mike, That doesnt mean Mike was out of his Prime.


ROOSTER
I think it was more down to what he got up to the night before..

res
08-09-2009, 03:14 AM
er..

Newsflash dude, Tyson was way way over the hile Post Prison. Let alone 7 years later when he faced Lewis.

Tyson's record before prison was 41-1.
Post prison was 9-4

Tyson had a freakishly strong chin, but very poor "heart".

That said, he had no reason to lose confidence against an old Foreman (or Prime Foreman).

Something Tyson was weak against tall and fast boxers. Hence the Tillis bout.

Foreman was tall, but was very slow. He may land a few, but he would need combo's to get Tyson to implode. Which imo, won't happen.


er, that's why i said our knowledge of how much Tyson could take and give at the same was "limited" instead of saying, we know that tyson cannot take and give. We have no experience with Tyson taking the kind of shots he would receive from a guy like Foreman continuously and continuing to give back.

princemanspoper
08-09-2009, 07:35 PM
This is a video i just filmed off the TV from one of my old fight tapes, i just put it on Youtube and thought id share

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Stop posting your crappy attention seeking videos on my forum.All you do is take tiny segments and blow them up into main topic features often controversial in an attempt to seek views and subscribers on youtube.Keep that **** on youtube and not my forum whore,This forum is for boxing fans,Not wannabe internet stars like you



But George gave a PRIME Evander a tougher fight then Mike Tyson gave an OLDER Evander.


This fight would not be so easy, I remember seeing news footage before the Evander fight, they were laughing at George the whole time, They thought it would be easy, and it turned out to be Hell for Holyfield.


It turned out to be hell because holyfield couldn't knock him out,Other than that he absolutely dominated foreman the entire fight.Don't fool yourself into thinking anything else ****ster

Slimey Limey
08-09-2009, 07:45 PM
Rooster and his petty crappy vids should be ignored. He's a bloody wanker with way too much bias towards Tyson to be taken seriously.

Tyson would KO old Goerge in the opening seconds of round 1.

them_apples
08-09-2009, 09:17 PM
IMO I think George would be open early to some really big barrages and the fight would be stopped. Yes George had huge power but he also took a 20 punch combination from Holyfield early, he was just lucky it was Holyfield (average puncher) and not someone with huge power (he almost went down).

If George catches him really hard he could obviously win, but I don't see him beating Mike in the 90's. He would lose both a Ud or by KO. He was only able to land on Holyfield a few times, and Tyson generally was thought to have better defense than Holyfield.

If this was the Tyson that wasn't taking training seriously then it's a real pick em' and Tyson might think he's invincible and forget all about moving his head.

Ziggy Stardust
08-09-2009, 09:45 PM
Tyson generally was thought to have better defense than Holyfield.

Holyfield was generally thought to be washed up when he fought Tyson too.....

Poet

Slimey Limey
08-09-2009, 10:07 PM
Holyfield was generally thought to be washed up when he fought Tyson too.....

Poet

And now decades later we can see that he was no more washed up than 89-92 Tyson. And does that even have to do with the post you quoted you bloody wanker?

them_apples
08-09-2009, 10:52 PM
Holyfield was generally thought to be washed up when he fought Tyson too.....

Poet

yea but the triangle theory doesn't work. Holyfield wasn't thought to be washed up either, people just wondered if he had anything left after those wars he had prior. It wasn't a prime Holyfield but it certainly wasn't a washed up one either.

90's Foreman leaves his head open for a 20 punch combination from Holyfield don't you see him eating the same stuff from Tyson?

I know you don't like Tyson but this isn't a prime George here.:thinkerg: He didn't even have the speed or reflexes to time a quick fighter with that hellacious uppercut he had in his prime.

GJC
08-10-2009, 09:55 AM
I favour Tyson to beat comeback Foreman, 70's Foreman beats him though.

Ziggy Stardust
08-10-2009, 11:38 AM
yea but the triangle theory doesn't work. Holyfield wasn't thought to be washed up either, people just wondered if he had anything left after those wars he had prior. It wasn't a prime Holyfield but it certainly wasn't a washed up one either.

My point was that what is "generally believed" isn't always accurate. If you read the articles in Ring Magazine leading up the the first Holyfield - Tyson fight Evander was portrayed as a shot fighter who might have even gotten killed when he faced Tyson. Holyfield, afterall, had been KOed by Bowe in their 3rd fight and had looked aweful against Bobby Czyz. Rumours where circulating about his heart ect. As it turned out, perceptions were wrong.


90's Foreman leaves his head open for a 20 punch combination from Holyfield don't you see him eating the same stuff from Tyson?

I know you don't like Tyson but this isn't a prime George here.:thinkerg: He didn't even have the speed or reflexes to time a quick fighter with that hellacious uppercut he had in his prime.

Actually I would give '90s George only a 50/50 shot at best in a matchup with Tyson. While I think it's still a bad style matchup for Mike, '90s George was very slow and I'm just not sure he could take advantage of it. Tyson had a very good chin and wasn't going to be bombed out with one punch and as slow as George was at that point he just wasn't able to put punches together with any real consistancy. So while I don't think it's a "gimme" fight for Tyson by any means I also have some serious questions about George's chances of winning.

Poet

Silencers
08-10-2009, 12:01 PM
A comebacking Foreman would still give Tyson problems with his jab and he still had great power but if Tommy Morrison could move in and out on him, I think Tyson would've been able to do the same. Tyson by decision, Foreman would have his moments though.