View Full Version : Mike McCallum does not get his props imo


Dynamite Kid
07-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Mike McCallum does not get his props imo, its one of them where younger fans just see that he lost to Jones and Toney and the older fans tend to talk up the Fab 4.

You got fighters like Calzaghe getting reveared by some and McCallum beat better fighters, was a better craftsmen imo, and he gets less recognition.

Lets take a look at who he beat

Kalule
G Thomas
Collins
McCrory
Curry
Watson
Kalambay
Harding
Graham
Jackson
Minchillo

Im a bit biased because he is one of my top 10 fav's, but where is the love the Body Snatcher :boxing:

TheGreatA
07-12-2009, 06:09 PM
I think he is beginning to get more and more respect as time goes on. Back when he fought he was mostly known by the British fans and experts due to his fights against Graham, Watson, Collins.

I made a highlight of McCallum and have gotten a lot of positive feedback by people who had never seen him fight before.

McCallum vs Hearns at 154 for 15 rounds would've been a great fight. I think he would beat an under-sized, mostly unmotivated 154 lb Duran, have trouble with a prime Benitez but by 1983 McCallum would've beaten him. Tough to say how he would have done against Leonard/Hagler.

Jackson brought his power against McCallum but McCallum brilliantly picked him apart after some trouble early on. Few could have beaten Jackson that easily.

Kalambay was a great boxer who would've given trouble to many of the great middleweights with his style. Kalambay put on a brilliant boxing exhibition in the first fight but McCallum got the better of Kalambay in the rematch. I feel McCallum may have been the more accomplished fighter (although Kalambay is underrated on his own) but head-to-head Kalambay was a tough match-up for him.

I think the first fight with Kalambay really derailed his career because he was coming off a huge KO win over Curry which had finally given him some well-earned publicity. After the loss he had to start from the beginning yet again and take on the tough fights that no one else wanted.

Looking at the way McCallum picked apart Watson, I don't think Benn or Eubank could have beaten him.

Unfortunately he had some of his biggest fights (aside from Curry) way past his prime against Toney and Jones. He was still good against Toney the first two times but pretty well spent against Jones.

Thread Stealer
07-12-2009, 06:10 PM
I think more or less he gets credit nowadays, but too many attention is paid to him not getting a fight with any of the Fab 4 as opposed to the things he DID do.

mickey malone
07-12-2009, 06:39 PM
I've always thought this to, but there is a reason for it..

3 weight world champ
Never KO'd (can't even remember him touching down)
One of the best body snatchers of all time

But I'd guess it's because he never beat a legend.. If there were a Hopkins, Jones (lost DC) leonard, Hearns, Duran or Hagler on his resume, this wouldn't be the case.. I'd say his best victories were the KO's of Curry & Jackson, but the more I look at the guys he never fought, It kinda gives the impression that he walked through a minefield & got away with it.. Jeeeez, he didn't even fight Mugabe, Benn or Eubank.. I suppose Graham, Collins, Harding, Kalambay & Tiozzo didn't quite cut the historical mustard..

TheGreatA
07-12-2009, 06:48 PM
I've always thought this to, but there is a reason for it..

3 weight world champ
Never KO'd (can't even remember him touching down)
One of the best body snatchers of all time

But I'd guess it's because he never beat a legend.. If there were a Hopkins, Jones (lost DC) leonard, Hearns, Duran or Hagler on his resume, this wouldn't be the case.. I'd say his best victories were the KO's of Curry & Jackson, but the more I look at the guys he never fought, It kinda gives the impression that he walked through a minefield & got away with it.. Jeeeez, he didn't even fight Mugabe..

Is that really his fault though? Who do you think he should have fought?

I'm sure McCallum wouldn't have had any trouble fighting someone like Mugabi, he did after all fight Jackson who was better.

Thread Stealer
07-12-2009, 06:56 PM
I don't think Mugabi cared too much to fight McCallum. The Beast wanted the big fights with Hearns and Hagler. The crowd kept yelling "Hearns, Hearns" after one of Mugabi's wins, but Mugabi was the MW mandatory so he got a fight with Hagler.

McCallum would've outboxed Mugabi IMO.

TheGreatA
07-12-2009, 07:02 PM
I don't think Mugabi cared too much to fight McCallum. The Beast wanted the big fights with Hearns and Hagler. The crowd kept yelling "Hearns, Hearns" after one of Mugabi's wins, but Mugabi was the MW mandatory so he got a fight with Hagler.

McCallum would've outboxed Mugabi IMO.

Mugabi got some real hype, perhaps unjustified however. He did prove to be a legit title contender against Hagler but was also beaten down so badly that he never went onto become much aftewards.

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Dynamite Kid
07-12-2009, 07:14 PM
I've always thought this to, but there is a reason for it..

3 weight world champ
Never KO'd (can't even remember him touching down)
One of the best body snatchers of all time

But I'd guess it's because he never beat a legend.. If there were a Hopkins, Jones (lost DC) leonard, Hearns, Duran or Hagler on his resume, this wouldn't be the case.. I'd say his best victories were the KO's of Curry & Jackson, but the more I look at the guys he never fought, It kinda gives the impression that he walked through a minefield & got away with it.. Jeeeez, he didn't even fight Mugabe, Benn or Eubank.. I suppose Graham, Collins, Harding, Kalambay & Tiozzo didn't quite cut the historical mustard..



Thats fair but by the same token can you beat a legend if you dont get the chance ?


McCallum would of beaten Mugabi up and he would schooled Benn and Eubank imo. I think he would of knocked Benn out.

Terry Norris put Mugabi's light out in 1 and McClellan did a job on him to, who did Mugabi ever beat of note ?

McCallum was hitting Minchillo with the kitchen sink so much so that his corner decided to stop the fight, this is the guy who took Duran and Hearns the distance.

McCallum also did a better job on Kalule than Ray Leonard imo.


Technically Kalambay was a much slicker better technical fighter than Eubank. Nunn landed a once in a life time peach of a punch, but im not sure Nunn was not heading for a big head ache if he had not caught Kalambay cold. Nunn had hell with Iran Barkley and a blown up Marlon Starling. I think Starling might of won the fight to.

Eubank did too much reaching to beat someone like McCalluim, he would of got painted with counters.

Dynamite Kid
07-12-2009, 07:19 PM
I think he is beginning to get more and more respect as time goes on. Back when he fought he was mostly known by the British fans and experts due to his fights against Graham, Watson, Collins.

I made a highlight of McCallum and have gotten a lot of positive feedback by people who had never seen him fight before.

McCallum vs Hearns at 154 for 15 rounds would've been a great fight. I think he would beat an under-sized, mostly unmotivated 154 lb Duran, have trouble with a prime Benitez but by 1983 McCallum would've beaten him. Tough to say how he would have done against Leonard/Hagler.

Jackson brought his power against McCallum but McCallum brilliantly picked him apart after some trouble early on. Few could have beaten Jackson that easily.

Kalambay was a great boxer who would've given trouble to many of the great middleweights with his style. Kalambay put on a brilliant boxing exhibition in the first fight but McCallum got the better of Kalambay in the rematch. I feel McCallum may have been the more accomplished fighter (although Kalambay is underrated on his own) but head-to-head Kalambay was a tough match-up for him.

I think the first fight with Kalambay really derailed his career because he was coming off a huge KO win over Curry which had finally given him some well-earned publicity. After the loss he had to start from the beginning yet again and take on the tough fights that no one else wanted.

Looking at the way McCallum picked apart Watson, I don't think Benn or Eubank could have beaten him.

Unfortunately he had some of his biggest fights (aside from Curry) way past his prime against Toney and Jones. He was still good against Toney the first two times but pretty well spent against Jones.


Great post.

Kalambay was sooo underrated, that was a tremendous performance by him when he beat McCallum, rolling the shoulders and countering with the uppercut and everything............class.


I thought the second fight was razor thin to.

TheGreatA
07-12-2009, 08:12 PM
Great post.

Kalambay was sooo underrated, that was a tremendous performance by him when he beat McCallum, rolling the shoulders and countering with the uppercut and everything............class.


I thought the second fight was razor thin to.

Agreed. I thought McCallum piled up enough rounds early on to win the fight.

Kalambay adapted to McCallum's tactics but did it too late in the fight. I do think that the fight could've gone either way but McCallum deserves credit for overcoming a tough stylistic match-up and for being willing to give him a rematch (McCallum could have after all easily ducked him), even though Kalambay wasn't at his best.

The first fight is one the best performances I've seen from any fighter.

Dynamite Kid
07-12-2009, 08:40 PM
Agreed. I thought McCallum piled up enough rounds early on to win the fight.

Kalambay adapted to McCallum's tactics but did it too late in the fight. I do think that the fight could've gone either way but McCallum deserves credit for overcoming a tough stylistic match-up and for being willing to give him a rematch (McCallum could have after all easily ducked him), even though Kalambay wasn't at his best.

The first fight is one the best performances I've seen from any fighter.

Yes, in the end i just think McCallum was prepared better for what Kalamaby was going to do the second time, he was looking to pick up more counters this time was McCallum.


The second fight was one of those great technical Boxing matches like Whitaker vs McGirt.

The rematch was so damn close but as you say McCallum had probably just about done enough earlier. I saw a Eurosport version of the fight and Mike Watson was co commentator, he was truly awful.

TheGreatA
07-12-2009, 09:09 PM
Yes, in the end i just think McCallum was prepared better for what Kalamaby was going to do the second time, he was looking to pick up more counters this time was McCallum.


The second fight was one of those great technical Boxing matches like Whitaker vs McGirt.

The rematch was so damn close but as you say McCallum had probably just about done enough earlier. I saw a Eurosport version of the fight and Mike Watson was co commentator, he was truly awful.

It's the version I have of this fight as well.

Watson offered a couple of insightful comments and had a lot of respect for both fighters for sure but he certainly didn't seem fit for the commentator's job. Still better than Lennox Lewis though.

He didn't have the personality of a Nigel Benn or a Chris Eubank, which is probably why he isn't talked about as often (aside from the tragic Eubank vs Watson II fight) despite him being as good as either of them in my view.

McCallum vs Kalambay I may have been one of the best performances I've seen but McCallum vs Kalambay II was truly one of the best fights, skill-wise, a chess match between two skilled boxers. Kalambay was on the decline more so than McCallum, based on his past couple of performances, but he gave a great account of himself in that fight.

I've heard from someone who trains at McCallum's gym that for years McCallum worked on an appropriate strategy to overcome Kalambay in a rematch and he still had trouble pulling it off.

Dynamite Kid
07-12-2009, 09:17 PM
It's the version I have of this fight as well.

Watson offered a couple of insightful comments and had a lot of respect for both fighters for sure but he certainly didn't seem fit for the commentator's job. Still better than Lennox Lewis though.

He didn't have the personality of a Nigel Benn or a Chris Eubank, which is probably why he isn't talked about as often (aside from the tragic Eubank vs Watson II fight) despite him being as good as either of them in my view.

McCallum vs Kalambay I may have been one of the best performances I've seen but McCallum vs Kalambay II was truly one of the best fights, skill-wise, a chess match between two skilled boxers. Kalambay was on the decline more so than McCallum, based on his past couple of performances, but he gave a great account of himself in that fight.

I've heard from someone who trains at McCallum's gym that for years McCallum worked on an appropriate strategy to overcome Kalambay
in a rematch and he still had trouble pulling it off.


Agree.

I felt Kalambay's speed was a big factor, i think he was a little quicker than McCallum.

Have you seen his fight with Harding ? what a fight that is, if you have not got chance to see that yet watch it.

I watched McCallum's fight with Minchillo last night, thats a good one aswell.

mickey malone
07-13-2009, 08:43 AM
Is that really his fault though? Who do you think he should have fought?

I'm sure McCallum wouldn't have had any trouble fighting someone like Mugabi, he did after all fight Jackson who was better.
Absolutely not.. I think, with the exception of Hagler, he'd have beaten those guys to.. Mugabe's name kinda popped up as an after thought & yet another 'crowd pleaser' who isn't on his resume... I think that's basically the crux of it.. Although an ATG in his own right, titles aside, he simply didn't fight enough of the exciting names.. I'd say, throughout his career, the only guy who genuinely got his number was James Toney in 2 weight classes.. However, Mike was way past his prime at Cruiser..

mickey malone
07-13-2009, 08:51 AM
Thats fair but by the same token can you beat a legend if you dont get the chance ?


McCallum would of beaten Mugabi up and he would schooled Benn and Eubank imo. I think he would of knocked Benn out.

Terry Norris put Mugabi's light out in 1 and McClellan did a job on him to, who did Mugabi ever beat of note ?

McCallum was hitting Minchillo with the kitchen sink so much so that his corner decided to stop the fight, this is the guy who took Duran and Hearns the distance.

McCallum also did a better job on Kalule than Ray Leonard imo.


Technically Kalambay was a much slicker better technical fighter than Eubank. Nunn landed a once in a life time peach of a punch, but im not sure Nunn was not heading for a big head ache if he had not caught Kalambay cold. Nunn had hell with Iran Barkley and a blown up Marlon Starling. I think Starling might of won the fight to.

Eubank did too much reaching to beat someone like McCalluim, he would of got painted with counters.
Sorry mate.. My reply to Great A was meant for both of you.. mm

Dynamite Kid
07-13-2009, 09:56 AM
Absolutely not.. I think, with the exception of Hagler, he'd have beaten those guys to.. Mugabe's name kinda popped up as an after thought & yet another 'crowd pleaser' who isn't on his resume... I think that's basically the crux of it.. Although an ATG in his own right, titles aside, he simply didn't fight enough of the exciting names.. I'd say, throughout his career, the only guy who genuinely got his number was James Toney in 2 weight classes.. However, Mike was way past his prime at Cruiser..

I know you will think im biased :lol1: but i dont think Toney beat him 1st or 2nd time, the first fight was close and Toney only got a draw because he had a strong finish to the fight but i still think a draw was the best he could of hoped for, because for my money McCallum was the man on top before Toney had that big finish.

mickey malone
07-13-2009, 04:51 PM
I know you will think im biased :lol1: but i dont think Toney beat him 1st or 2nd time, the first fight was close and Toney only got a draw because he had a strong finish to the fight but i still think a draw was the best he could of hoped for, because for my money McCallum was the man on top before Toney had that big finish.
No... Not biased, that's why we need 3 judges & even then, the decision can be controversial.. In fact, if I remember rightly they had 3 fights (2xMW & 1xCW) It was the draw that I'd forgot about.. So maybe not a geuine number taker, but edges it overall.. However, Toney (like Barclay) was a huge MW which contributed to the only covincing win which was at the end of Mikes career & at C/W..

Dynamite Kid
07-13-2009, 06:57 PM
No... Not biased, that's why we need 3 judges & even then, the decision can be controversial.. In fact, if I remember rightly they had 3 fights (2xMW & 1xCW) It was the draw that I'd forgot about.. So maybe not a geuine number taker, but edges it overall.. However, Toney (like Barclay) was a huge MW which contributed to the only covincing win which was at the end of Mikes career & at C/W..




Hey mickey malone did you think Toney deserved a draw and a win 1st and 2nd time ?

mickey malone
07-14-2009, 06:09 AM
Hey mickey malone did you think Toney deserved a draw and a win 1st and 2nd time ?
I haven't seen those fights for a long time, & I take your word, that they were controversial.. Toney fans would say yes & McCallum fans would say no.. But I remember the most recent fight at CW & Toney won it clearly.. It may only be a hairs breath, but Toney came out on top overall.. I like both fighters & am totally impartial..

-CANE-
07-14-2009, 09:06 AM
Mike McCallum does not get his props imo, its one of them where younger fans just see that he lost to Jones and Toney and the older fans tend to talk up the Fab 4.

You got fighters like Calzaghe getting reveared by some and McCallum beat better fighters, was a better craftsmen imo, and he gets less recognition.

Lets take a look at who he beat

Kalule
G Thomas
Collins
McCrory
Curry
Watson
Kalambay
Harding
Graham
Jackson
Minchillo

Im a bit biased because he is one of my top 10 fav's, but where is the love the Body Snatcher :boxing:


I've met McCallum at a few fights many years ago and I have his autograph more than once. If your interested I'll see if I can dig out my programs and see what autographs I have on them. As long as it's not the one with Lennox Lewis then I'm prepared to let you have it.

Chr0nic
07-14-2009, 10:16 AM
i agree, the body snatcher was one hell of a fighter and an all time great

Silencers
07-14-2009, 11:15 AM
As already mentioned in this thread, I think he gets his due nowadays but it was pretty bad a few years back, people rarely mentioned him back then.