These days, with so many different world titles out there, its possible to argue that there are to many average fighters that currently have or have held world titles. But who is the best fighter never to be crowned a world champion?

Charley Burley.

Herol Graham?

bert gilroy.

Tommy Morrison.
:mad:

morrison beat foreman to be WBO champ

heavwyweights you gotta look at "the acorn" Ernie shavers never winning it.
he woudl have a field day if he was around today.

Great spot I think Shavers would have unified the division about two years ago when you consider the standard of the division today. I was actually going to put his name forward as a potential

British fighter - i'd go with Herol Graham, otherwise Charley Burley

there was a few form that era Ron lyle woudl have had fun as well. Jimmy young another. YOung beat foreman beat lyle and drew with shavers and never won the title :eek:

scary depth of talent in those days.

Charley Burley EASY.

This guy beat Archie Moore, Holman Williams, Fritzie Zivic, Billy Soose.....all future champs except for Williams.

bert gilroy was scots, unbeaten at middle weight for 6 years at one point frozen out due to politics he never even got a british title shot.

record was won 87 lost 25 drew 8.

hastne to add most the losses were at light heavy at the end of his career to people like freddie mills and some very dubious decisions.

unbeaten scots middleweight champ for six years. :eek:
they did everything to keep mcavoy away from gilroy.

morrison beat foreman to be WBO champ

heavwyweights you gotta look at "the acorn" Ernie shavers never winning it.
he woudl have a field day if he was around today.

In fact I can't actually believe that Shavers only had two shots at a world title, lost to Holmes after having Holmes down and then took Ali all the way to 15, he also beat Ken Norton, can't believe there are many others who could lay claim to being the best not to be a World Champion.

yip he was pretty darn good, hois chin let him down occasionally but **** he could whack.

no doubt he would clean up now.

(cue relentless attacks from vitali fans)

Sam Langford isn't only the greatest fighter to never win a title, but he's alos possibly the greatest fighter period. Him and Charlie Burley easily head this class, but still, Burley isn't on Langford's level. Sam belongs with the likes of Robinson, Greb, Duran, and Ali; the elite of the elite. This is no disrespect to Burley, he is easily an all-time great.

Other notable fighters to never win a title: Holman Williams, Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Bivins.

cple

How many fights did you see of Langford's?

One against Fireman Jim Flynn.

I know Langford was good. But if that is all you have seen of him. With just his wins on paper, he is an unknown commodity. There are tapes of Burley. We know what he did to Moore. I think we know more about him than Langford wouldn't you agree?

I know Langford was good. But if that is all you have seen of him. With just his wins on paper, he is an unknown commodity. There are tapes of Burley. We know what he did to Moore. I think we know more about him than Langford wouldn't you agree?

Not necessarily. Is there really that much of an abundance of Burley fights? The few that do exist are hard to find and rarely show the full fight. Does a handful of highlights really help evaluation that much? Yes, it is helpful, but not that much. Even if we did have a lot of footage of these early century fighters, it really wouldn't be too accurate. Many of them have missing frames, so the speed is distorted. I think Burely is just as much an "unknown commodity" as Burley is.

However, i do think that one can adequately assess a fighter, or more specifically, his body of work with in-depth research. Learning more about their opponents and reading fight descriptions can give a lot of insight on a fighter. Footage is important in deciphering a fighter's style, but you can see his greatness or accomplishments on paper.

And by looking at Langford's resume, you can see that not many boxers in the history of the sport have accomplished as much as he has. Fighting lightweights to heavyweights, he beat every viable opponent: Joe Gans, Jack Blackburn, Joe Jeannette, Jim Flynn, Stanley Ketchel, Sam McVea, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Harry Wills, Kid Norfolk, Tiger Flowers, and list goes on. His body of work is simply astounding and possibly exceeds that of Greb and Robinson. And the fact that many of these fighters had a significant size advantage makes these accomplishments even more amazing.

I used to think that Bronco McKart and Angel Manfredy were going to win titles, but apparently not. I would have to go with Ike Ibeabuchi, David Tua, and Tony Ayala, Jr. Benny Briscoe has to be up there.

Herol 'Bomber' Graham for sure.

how about andrew golata? he should have won at least a piece of the title

Ike Ibeabuchi is a very good one to throw out there...but I have to go with my boy, Lamar Parks. Parks only title shot came against Reggie Jonhnson and he lost a close ud, Parks was still a pup too. He contracted the AIDS virus and never fought again.

Think about this, Lamar PArks and Gerald McClellan were set to square off against each other....McClellan went brain dead and Parks got AIDS...Two guys entering the prime of their careers...and all of a sudden.

Ike Ibeabuchi is a very good one to throw out there...but I have to go with my boy, Lamar Parks. Parks only title shot came against Reggie Jonhnson and he lost a close ud, Parks was still a pup too. He contracted the AIDS virus and never fought again.

Think about this, Lamar PArks and Gerald McClellan were set to square off against each other....McClellan went brain dead and Parks got AIDS...Two guys entering the prime of their careers...and all of a sudden.

Add Michel Watson to both lists.

Toney Tucker should also be on this list! From the time he when he fought Tyson and even before that he was a bad ass, in Tucker's prime I believe only Tyson beat him! Tucker was years gone when he fought Lewis, but in his day he was as good as it got without a title belt!

Tucker was IBF champ, beat Buster Douglas in 10 for it in 87 then lost it in his first defence to Tyson

if it has to be the BEST fighter never to win a world title, it has to be Langford. i've heard many boxing experts say he may have been the p4p greatest of all time

Well for heavyweights I would have to say David Tua.

Tommy Morrison.
:mad:


He was not good. But wasn;t he a WBO champ?

Golota has been robbed four times.

IF you wanna talk modern fighters that is one thing. But all time.....either Langford or Burley. IMO Burley.

what about obba "motor city" carr ?

Not necessarily. Is there really that much of an abundance of Burley fights? The few that do exist are hard to find and rarely show the full fight. Does a handful of highlights really help evaluation that much? Yes, it is helpful, but not that much. Even if we did have a lot of footage of these early century fighters, it really wouldn't be too accurate. Many of them have missing frames, so the speed is distorted. I think Burely is just as much an "unknown commodity" as Burley is.

However, i do think that one can adequately assess a fighter, or more specifically, his body of work with in-depth research. Learning more about their opponents and reading fight descriptions can give a lot of insight on a fighter. Footage is important in deciphering a fighter's style, but you can see his greatness or accomplishments on paper.

And by looking at Langford's resume, you can see that not many boxers in the history of the sport have accomplished as much as he has. Fighting lightweights to heavyweights, he beat every viable opponent: Joe Gans, Jack Blackburn, Joe Jeannette, Jim Flynn, Stanley Ketchel, Sam McVea, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Harry Wills, Kid Norfolk, Tiger Flowers, and list goes on. His body of work is simply astounding and possibly exceeds that of Greb and Robinson. And the fact that many of these fighters had a significant size advantage makes these accomplishments even more amazing.

No you are correct that is pretty damn good. I forgot about how many times he fought McVea and Wills. He didn't beat Ketchel. But the KO over Flowers makes up for that.....you could have something here...... I think you may have convinced me.

He didn't beat Ketchel.

That's debatable since most of the out of town newspapers were split in their opinion on who got the better of things that fight (and most of those out of town newspapers wrote their reports going on hearsay).

With me, I tend to trust a newspaper account that came from the city in which the fight took place, and most of the Philly papers at the time thought Langford was better. For example here's the opening line in the April 28, 1910 edition of the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin and their opinion as to who won the fight;

"Sam Langford, of Boston, defeated Stanley Ketchel of Grand Rapids in a six round bout at the National Club last night"

And it is also well known that Langford wasn't giving his all in that fight against Ketchel (especially during the last couple of rounds, which some opinions say are the only ones Ketchel won after losing the first four), as he was hoping to get a future middleweight title shot sometime after that fight, and didn't show Stanley what he was fully capable of.

Obviously it's tough to prove what actually happened without seeing the fight for ourselves, but most first hand, eye witness accounts thought Langford got the better of things in that fight.

And yes, it's also my opinion that Sam Langford was the greatest fighter to never win a world title. Charley Burley was right up their as well, and he may have been the strong second choice for this distinction.

Some other greats who never won a world title; Jimmy Bivins, Billy Graham, Les Darcy, Jim Driscoll, Mike Gibbons, Tommy Gibbons, Peter Jackson, Joe Jeanette, Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall, Packy McFarland, Harry Wills, Sam McVey, Billy Petrolle, and Lew Tendler.

what about obba "motor city" carr ?
Yeah good one.

I think Charley Burley as well

Micky Ward

How about Herol Graham?

He walked onto a Julian Jackson right hand bomb when one punch away from stopping the champ.

And then he lost on a SPLIT decision to a prime Mike McCallum.


And then, aged 38, he dropped Charles Brewer twice before getting stopped in the 10th.



Black

Charley Burley EASY

It`s me. :)

Sam Langford has to be the one. He fought and defeated the best the world had to over in any weightclass (he even gave a prime Jack Johnson something to think about with a huge weight disadvantage). He fought until he was 43 years old and blind and still won some of his last bouts. It just makes you feel bad when you think about this All Time Great who has never won a World Title and left the sport broke and blind.

Micky Ward

yup im going with ward theres been bums who had hold a title but micky never did

oktay urkal............

Bert Gilroy
(Antonio Rea)
BORN May 10 1918; Airdrie, Scotland
(Fought out of Coatbridge, Scotland)
DIED June 2 1998
HEIGHT 5-8 1/2 (Some sources report 5-9)
WEIGHT 155-188 1/4 lbs
MANAGER Tommy Gilmour Sr.

Bert Gilroy was a skillful, talented 1st class boxer with knockout potency in both fists; He was a game and willing fighter who was Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight Champion of Scotland from 1938-50; Bert lost 12 of his first 34 bouts but then went unbeaten in 41 bouts, from mid-1937 until early 1943

In fact, from mid-1937 until the end of his career in 1950, Gilroy tasted defeat only 13 times out of his next 85 contests, fighting some of the greatest fighters Britain and Europe had to offer; Seven of these contests met with question or controversy in either the decision or circumstances surrounding the fights

About the time Bert reached his peak in 1939, World War II broke out and boxing interest became secondary; Many historians feel it cost Gilroy an opportunity to win a world title !

Gilroy was a victim of "Boxing Politics" and found himself at odds with British greats, Ernie Roderick, the fearsome Jock McAvoy and world Champion Freddie Mills for title bouts and "title eliminator" bouts that never happened; Bert was effectively shut-out; Such is, at times, the unfortunate and unfair nature of the sweet science we call Boxing

During his career, Bert tangled with such men as Ben Valentine, Arthur "Ginger" Sadd, Glen Moody (Welsh champion and brother of Frank), Jack "Froggy" Hyams, Freddie Mills, Bruce Wood****, Marcel Cerdan, Don ****ell and Stephane Olek; Gilroy is a member of the World Boxing Hall of Fame - class of 2006.

Herol Bomber Graham

Lost against Mike McCallum for the WBA title on a split decision after knocking McCallum down, lost to Julian Jackson for the WBA title(that KO) after dominating him prior to the one shot KO and he was stopped by Charles Brewer late on after twice dropping the champion for the IBF title.