HockeyFighter
02-10-2005, 02:40 PM
Most people by now have seen the movies or have read the books but alot of people don't know that Tolkien also wrote alot of other books that told the story of the earth before the War of the Ring. These are the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the 2 books of Lost Tales. They tell of the 1st, 2nd, and early 3rd ages which is actually a ton cooler than what is told in the Lord of the Rings because those stories occur when there were mighty kingdoms of elves and men and many battles and wars were fought with their enemies and it makes it very cool to read. But it you haven't read some of the earlier history there are lost of things that one would question in LOTR because the background isn't given. I was just skimming through Unfinished Tales the last few days and decided to make this thread to answer some questions that are common to readers of LOTR or to those who have only seen the movies.
1. How old are some of the Characters?
The movie gives the depiction that many of the characters are actually quite young however this is largely false. If you have seen the extended version of the Two Towers you will see Aragorn tell his age as either 87 or 88. Aragorn was a descendant from the Kingdom of Numenor which had extended lives, up to 400 years. Aragorn himself lived to be 210.
Frodo - 51
Sam - 38
Merry - 37
Pippin - 29
Gimli - 140
Legolas - Unknown, atleast 500 and up to 3000
Elrond - 6518
Arwen - 2777
Theoden (King of Rohan) - 71
Eomer - 27
Boromir - 41
Faramir - 36
Gandalf - not a mortal being, I'll come to him later
2. Who made the Rings of Power?
The 9 rings of Men, 7 of the Dwarves and 3 of the Elves were made by Celebrimbor, grandson of Feanor who created the Silmarils which Morgoth stole in the first age and started the original wars in Middle-Earth. Feanor was the greatest craftsman ever and Celebrimbor was no slouch either. The 1 ring was made by Sauron himself after studying Celebrimbor's art when he was still "good". When Sauron put on the one ring the elves were able to percieve his power and thoughts and they took off and hid their rings. Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan were given the rings for safe keeping but Cirdan gave his to Gandalf when he came to middle-earth. Celebrimbor was killed when Sauron attacked Eregion in an attempt to gain the Rings of Power for himself.
3. Who/What are Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron?
All three of them are Maiar, servents of the Gods. You could say they are like angels to make a comparison. In the beginning there was Iluvatar, the “One”. Iluvatar created 14 lessar gods and gave to them the control of the world. These are the Valar. Iluvatar also created the Maiar which were to serve the Valar. The most powerful of the Valar were Melkor and Manwe however Melkor wanted control of the earth to himself and destroyed many of the creations of the other gods. He was also able to corrupt many servants, Sauron being the most powerful of these (Melkor aka Morgoth was overthrown and imprisoned by the gods at the end of the first age). Gandalf, Saruman and 3 other Maiar were sent to middle-earth to help the people of the earth against Sauron but in doing so had to give up some other their powers. The could be killed, were less wise and could become tired and ill. In these ways they were weaker than Sauron but it was never intended they fight Sauron, only consult and guide those who did.
4. Didn’t Gandalf die fighting the Balrog?
Yes but he was sent back to earth by the Valar because his task wasn’t complete.
5. What happened to Sauron if he couldn’t be killed?
It is unclear if the Maiar can die or not. From Tolkien's writing is appears that Sauron could not be killed but other Maiar like the Balrogs could be. When Sauron created the one ring Sauron put most of his power into it and when it was destroyed most of his powers went with it and he was left to roam the earth as a shadow that could only do the minimum of harm to anyone.
6. Who was Tom Bombadil?
Complicated question since Tolkien himself said that he really didn’t know who or what Tom was however I read a very good essay recently that was very convincing. It stated that Tom was Aule in disguise. Aule is a Valar, the God of Smithing. He created the Dwarves and if Tom was Aule it would explain why Tom was not affected by the ring and why he could control it so well. Here is a passage from that essay that explains the reasoning:
It is also important to note the tremendous power and control that Tom has over the ring. He is, first of all, able to overcome its normal effects. When he puts it on his finger, he does not become invisible. When Frodo puts it on his finger, Tom is still able to see Frodo. Second, Tom is able, with ease, to use the ring in ways that were not intended by its maker, for he is able to make the ring itself disappear. (It is possible that Sauron himself might be unable to do this, for the ring embodied a great part of Sauron's own power, drained from him during its making.) Such power over the ring, displayed almost as a parlor trick, I submit, cannot be accounted for by classifying Tom Bombadil as an anomalous nature spirit. The ability to dominate the ring suggests a Vala; the ease with which it is dominated suggests the ultimate maker of all things in Middle-earth, Aule the Smith, of whom both Sauron and Saruman were mere servants in the beginning before time.
7. What happened to the Kings of Gondor?
Short Answer: They died out. The 33rd King was killed in combat with the Lord of the Nazgul in 2050 of the third age. He left no heir so the Stewarts took over.
Long Answer: Gondor was only one half of the kingdoms of men. The northern kingdom was called Arnor and was the greater of the two. It was where Elendil ruled (Isildur’s father). Elendil left Gondor to his 2 sons. Isildur was on his way to Arnor when he was ambushed in Gladden Fields and killed. When the kings of Gondor died out the King of Arnor (then a smaller kingdom after some wars and internal struggles) claimed the thrown but was rejected. Eventually Arnor was destroyed but the blood of the kings continued and were called the Chieftains of the Dunedain (dunedain meant “men of the west” which was where the Numenorians came from). Aragorn was the Chieftain in LOTR and was a descendant of Elendil and all the Kings of Numenor and therefore able to claim the throne.
8. What was Numenor?
Numenor was an island to the west of middle-earth. It was raised out of the sea by the gods as a reward to the men who fought on the side of the Elves in the wars against Morgoth (also called the Edain). These men were rewarded for their courage and bravery with Numeror and lived near the Undying Lands of the gods and elves which were further west. The Edain were also granted long life (sometimes over 400 years) but as they fell into darkness over the centuries this number fell to slightly over 200 and less sometimes.
9. What happened to Numenor?
During the second age Sauron was gathering power in middle-earth. This was not taken lightly by the Numenoreans who were beginning to come back to middle-earth. The King gathered a force so massive that Sauron surrendered without a fight and was taken prisoner in Numenor. Sauron eventually convinced the king that the gods were his enemies and that taking their land would mean eternal life. He launched an attack against the gods but Iluvatar opened a chasm in the sea and destroyed the king’s fleet and swallowed Numenor. Only 9 ships, full of faithful who refuse to believe Sauron, survived. These contained Elendil and his sons who were descendants of the 4th King and they founded the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor.
10. Why are Elves good and Men evil?
This has to go back to the beginning of each race. The elves were found early by the Valar (Iluvatar was responsible for the creation of elves and men and the other gods only found out about them when they encountered them) before Morgoth could corrupt them. Many of them were taken to the island of Valinor where the gods lived while others stayed in middle-earth but were always protected by the Valar. Men were not to lucky and were found first by Morgoth and corrupted into evil. However some men heard of the “light” in the west and turned against evil and went into the west and met the elves. These were the Edain who would later become the Numenoreans. Most of the men of the world however were still evil and lived in the east and south under the command of Morgoth or Sauron.
11. Why aren’t there many Dwarves in LOTR?
Dwarves were created by Aule after he had seen the troubles that Morgoth could cause. They were able to resist evil and could not be corrupted but also cared little for matters outside their own. Being made by Aule they were obsessed with jewels and treasure and would fight for anyone who promised it or against anyone who got in their way of it. In this way they have fought for both sides in some battles but tend to keep to themselves and wage their own wars, usually against Orcs whom they hate or dragons. In the first age Dwarves where great allies of men and elves and created some of the greatest weapons and fortresses of the time. The hatred of Dwarves and Elves in LOTR stems from an incident in the first age where a group of Dwarves tried to steal a silmaril from an Elven king. In the resulting fight the king was killed and the dwarves slaughtered trying to escape. There’s a bit more to it, like how the silmaril had been up on a dwarf necklace, but that’s the jist of it.
11. What is with that White Tree?
The white tree of Gondor is the last in a long line of trees. Originally the light of the world was created by two trees, one of gold, one of silver. Later the Sun and Moon were created in their image. Melkor killed the two trees and they could never be recreated (which is why the silmarils were so important because inside them was captured the light of the trees). Another tree was created as a replica of the silver tree but had no where near the beauty. When Numenor was created a seedling was given to men to plant on there island. When Numeror was destroyed Elendil took a seedling of that tree to middle-earth where again it was destroyed but another seedling taken by Isildur and planted in Minas Tirith. This tree then died and since no seeds could be found, was left in its place which is why in the movie it has no leaves, because it is dead.
12. Can animals talk?
Some can, most can’t. Many of the greater animals can understand the languages of the earth but there are only a few that can speak it themselves. The king of the eagles and lord of the horses are said to be able to speak. The only animal that does speak in Tolkien’s books where he records the dialogue is Huan the hound who was permitted to speak 3 times in his life. Tolkien does say that other animals could talk but what they say is never written down.
1. How old are some of the Characters?
The movie gives the depiction that many of the characters are actually quite young however this is largely false. If you have seen the extended version of the Two Towers you will see Aragorn tell his age as either 87 or 88. Aragorn was a descendant from the Kingdom of Numenor which had extended lives, up to 400 years. Aragorn himself lived to be 210.
Frodo - 51
Sam - 38
Merry - 37
Pippin - 29
Gimli - 140
Legolas - Unknown, atleast 500 and up to 3000
Elrond - 6518
Arwen - 2777
Theoden (King of Rohan) - 71
Eomer - 27
Boromir - 41
Faramir - 36
Gandalf - not a mortal being, I'll come to him later
2. Who made the Rings of Power?
The 9 rings of Men, 7 of the Dwarves and 3 of the Elves were made by Celebrimbor, grandson of Feanor who created the Silmarils which Morgoth stole in the first age and started the original wars in Middle-Earth. Feanor was the greatest craftsman ever and Celebrimbor was no slouch either. The 1 ring was made by Sauron himself after studying Celebrimbor's art when he was still "good". When Sauron put on the one ring the elves were able to percieve his power and thoughts and they took off and hid their rings. Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan were given the rings for safe keeping but Cirdan gave his to Gandalf when he came to middle-earth. Celebrimbor was killed when Sauron attacked Eregion in an attempt to gain the Rings of Power for himself.
3. Who/What are Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron?
All three of them are Maiar, servents of the Gods. You could say they are like angels to make a comparison. In the beginning there was Iluvatar, the “One”. Iluvatar created 14 lessar gods and gave to them the control of the world. These are the Valar. Iluvatar also created the Maiar which were to serve the Valar. The most powerful of the Valar were Melkor and Manwe however Melkor wanted control of the earth to himself and destroyed many of the creations of the other gods. He was also able to corrupt many servants, Sauron being the most powerful of these (Melkor aka Morgoth was overthrown and imprisoned by the gods at the end of the first age). Gandalf, Saruman and 3 other Maiar were sent to middle-earth to help the people of the earth against Sauron but in doing so had to give up some other their powers. The could be killed, were less wise and could become tired and ill. In these ways they were weaker than Sauron but it was never intended they fight Sauron, only consult and guide those who did.
4. Didn’t Gandalf die fighting the Balrog?
Yes but he was sent back to earth by the Valar because his task wasn’t complete.
5. What happened to Sauron if he couldn’t be killed?
It is unclear if the Maiar can die or not. From Tolkien's writing is appears that Sauron could not be killed but other Maiar like the Balrogs could be. When Sauron created the one ring Sauron put most of his power into it and when it was destroyed most of his powers went with it and he was left to roam the earth as a shadow that could only do the minimum of harm to anyone.
6. Who was Tom Bombadil?
Complicated question since Tolkien himself said that he really didn’t know who or what Tom was however I read a very good essay recently that was very convincing. It stated that Tom was Aule in disguise. Aule is a Valar, the God of Smithing. He created the Dwarves and if Tom was Aule it would explain why Tom was not affected by the ring and why he could control it so well. Here is a passage from that essay that explains the reasoning:
It is also important to note the tremendous power and control that Tom has over the ring. He is, first of all, able to overcome its normal effects. When he puts it on his finger, he does not become invisible. When Frodo puts it on his finger, Tom is still able to see Frodo. Second, Tom is able, with ease, to use the ring in ways that were not intended by its maker, for he is able to make the ring itself disappear. (It is possible that Sauron himself might be unable to do this, for the ring embodied a great part of Sauron's own power, drained from him during its making.) Such power over the ring, displayed almost as a parlor trick, I submit, cannot be accounted for by classifying Tom Bombadil as an anomalous nature spirit. The ability to dominate the ring suggests a Vala; the ease with which it is dominated suggests the ultimate maker of all things in Middle-earth, Aule the Smith, of whom both Sauron and Saruman were mere servants in the beginning before time.
7. What happened to the Kings of Gondor?
Short Answer: They died out. The 33rd King was killed in combat with the Lord of the Nazgul in 2050 of the third age. He left no heir so the Stewarts took over.
Long Answer: Gondor was only one half of the kingdoms of men. The northern kingdom was called Arnor and was the greater of the two. It was where Elendil ruled (Isildur’s father). Elendil left Gondor to his 2 sons. Isildur was on his way to Arnor when he was ambushed in Gladden Fields and killed. When the kings of Gondor died out the King of Arnor (then a smaller kingdom after some wars and internal struggles) claimed the thrown but was rejected. Eventually Arnor was destroyed but the blood of the kings continued and were called the Chieftains of the Dunedain (dunedain meant “men of the west” which was where the Numenorians came from). Aragorn was the Chieftain in LOTR and was a descendant of Elendil and all the Kings of Numenor and therefore able to claim the throne.
8. What was Numenor?
Numenor was an island to the west of middle-earth. It was raised out of the sea by the gods as a reward to the men who fought on the side of the Elves in the wars against Morgoth (also called the Edain). These men were rewarded for their courage and bravery with Numeror and lived near the Undying Lands of the gods and elves which were further west. The Edain were also granted long life (sometimes over 400 years) but as they fell into darkness over the centuries this number fell to slightly over 200 and less sometimes.
9. What happened to Numenor?
During the second age Sauron was gathering power in middle-earth. This was not taken lightly by the Numenoreans who were beginning to come back to middle-earth. The King gathered a force so massive that Sauron surrendered without a fight and was taken prisoner in Numenor. Sauron eventually convinced the king that the gods were his enemies and that taking their land would mean eternal life. He launched an attack against the gods but Iluvatar opened a chasm in the sea and destroyed the king’s fleet and swallowed Numenor. Only 9 ships, full of faithful who refuse to believe Sauron, survived. These contained Elendil and his sons who were descendants of the 4th King and they founded the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor.
10. Why are Elves good and Men evil?
This has to go back to the beginning of each race. The elves were found early by the Valar (Iluvatar was responsible for the creation of elves and men and the other gods only found out about them when they encountered them) before Morgoth could corrupt them. Many of them were taken to the island of Valinor where the gods lived while others stayed in middle-earth but were always protected by the Valar. Men were not to lucky and were found first by Morgoth and corrupted into evil. However some men heard of the “light” in the west and turned against evil and went into the west and met the elves. These were the Edain who would later become the Numenoreans. Most of the men of the world however were still evil and lived in the east and south under the command of Morgoth or Sauron.
11. Why aren’t there many Dwarves in LOTR?
Dwarves were created by Aule after he had seen the troubles that Morgoth could cause. They were able to resist evil and could not be corrupted but also cared little for matters outside their own. Being made by Aule they were obsessed with jewels and treasure and would fight for anyone who promised it or against anyone who got in their way of it. In this way they have fought for both sides in some battles but tend to keep to themselves and wage their own wars, usually against Orcs whom they hate or dragons. In the first age Dwarves where great allies of men and elves and created some of the greatest weapons and fortresses of the time. The hatred of Dwarves and Elves in LOTR stems from an incident in the first age where a group of Dwarves tried to steal a silmaril from an Elven king. In the resulting fight the king was killed and the dwarves slaughtered trying to escape. There’s a bit more to it, like how the silmaril had been up on a dwarf necklace, but that’s the jist of it.
11. What is with that White Tree?
The white tree of Gondor is the last in a long line of trees. Originally the light of the world was created by two trees, one of gold, one of silver. Later the Sun and Moon were created in their image. Melkor killed the two trees and they could never be recreated (which is why the silmarils were so important because inside them was captured the light of the trees). Another tree was created as a replica of the silver tree but had no where near the beauty. When Numenor was created a seedling was given to men to plant on there island. When Numeror was destroyed Elendil took a seedling of that tree to middle-earth where again it was destroyed but another seedling taken by Isildur and planted in Minas Tirith. This tree then died and since no seeds could be found, was left in its place which is why in the movie it has no leaves, because it is dead.
12. Can animals talk?
Some can, most can’t. Many of the greater animals can understand the languages of the earth but there are only a few that can speak it themselves. The king of the eagles and lord of the horses are said to be able to speak. The only animal that does speak in Tolkien’s books where he records the dialogue is Huan the hound who was permitted to speak 3 times in his life. Tolkien does say that other animals could talk but what they say is never written down.