View Full Version : Computer Tournament - The Lightweights


Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2009, 09:27 AM
Fourth installment:


The Lightweights

1. Benny Leonard 1,603-306-91 (648) .824
2. Roberto Duran 1,561-372-67 (1,038) .797
3. Pernell Whitaker 1,426-454-120 (385) .743
4. Joe Gans 1,375-512-113 (517) .716
5. Ike Williams 1,196-716-88 (638) .620
6. Tony Canzoneri 1,031-817-152 (320) .554
7. Joe Brown 995-899-106 (414) .524
8. Jack Blackburn 962-898-140 (292) .516
9. Carlos Ortiz 959-916-125 (333) .511
10. Jem Driscoll 947-927-126 (271) .505
11. Hector Camacho 898-990-112 (325) .477
12. Julio Cesar Chavez 890-1,041-69 (592) .462
13. Diego Corrales 804-1,124-72 (509) .420
14. Bob Mongomery 723-1,165-112 (279) .390
15. Esteban DeJesus 734-1,183-83 (340) .388
16. Freddie Welsh 709-1,170-121 (247) .385
17. Azumah Nelson 720-1,190-90 (406) .383
18. Lew Tendler 661-1,200-139 (285) .365
19. Jose Luis Castillo 681-1,256-63 (431) .356
20. Edwin Rosario 674-1,277-49 (439) .349
21. Erik Morales 405-1,541-54 (245) .216

GJC
07-09-2009, 11:51 AM
Buchanan not show? How about current/recently done fighters, Mayweather and DLH?
Miguel Ángel González? You forget how deep the division is!

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2009, 11:53 AM
Buchanan not show? How about current/recently done fighters, Mayweather and DLH?
Miguel Ángel González? You forget how deep the division is!

De La Hoya and Mayweather are in with the Welterweights. Buchannan and Gonzalez didn't quite make the final cut.

Poet

GJC
07-09-2009, 12:04 PM
De La Hoya and Mayweather are in with the Welterweights. Buchannan and Gonzalez didn't quite make the final cut.

Poet
HATER! :)
Was a big fan of Buchanan in his day, reason I got into Duran so to speak was that he beat Buchanan so meant he had to be some fighter.
Assume you only doing the proper 8? Mayweather is a coin toss I guess between Welter and LW probably more that stupid Super Feather if anything.

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2009, 12:07 PM
HATER! :)
Was a big fan of Buchanan in his day, reason I got into Duran so to speak was that he beat Buchanan so meant he had to be some fighter.
Assume you only doing the proper 8? Mayweather is a coin toss I guess between Welter and LW probably more that stupid Super Feather if anything.

Yeah: "Old-School-Eight" is the order of the day. Mayweather was easy to place because as an "active" fighter he was only rated in his most recent weight-class ie. "Junior" Welterweight and I always group the "in between" division with the next higher up.

Poet

GJC
07-09-2009, 12:12 PM
Yeah: "Old-School-Eight" is the order of the day. Mayweather was easy to place because as an "active" fighter he was only rated in his most recent weight-class ie. "Junior" Welterweight and I always group the "in between" division with the next higher up.

Poet
Well anything that gets him in the ring opposite SRR and Homicide Hank can't be a bad system!
F%@k it would it be totally cheating to pop him in the heavyweights?
Think he has talent but don't like all that trash talking and like fighters to fight who is out there, so he isn't as high in my opinion as maybe his talent would put him.

them_apples
07-09-2009, 03:48 PM
Duran should win this quite handily

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Duran should win this quite handily

I don't know about that. While I have no problem with him being rated number one, the top 5 of that list is a murderers row and I could envision any one of them winning.

Miburo
07-09-2009, 04:06 PM
Duran should win this quite handily

Not even Duran would beat Whitaker handily.

them_apples
07-09-2009, 04:20 PM
Not even Duran would beat Whitaker handily.

Duran would handle Whitaker. Good as they both were, Duran would handle him.

Miburo
07-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Duran would handle Whitaker. Good as they both were, Duran would handle him.

Of course, just like he handled Leonard when he chose to box. Complete domination :ugh:

them_apples
07-09-2009, 05:18 PM
Of course, just like he handled Leonard when he chose to box. Complete domination :ugh:

1) Leonard is better than Whitaker, faster, and bigger.
2) Whitaker can't hurt Duran if Duran let him hit his face
3) Duran went toe to toe with one of the best southpaws ever at middleweight


Duran would handle Whitaker.

Miburo
07-10-2009, 02:48 AM
1) Leonard is better than Whitaker, faster, and bigger.
2) Whitaker can't hurt Duran if Duran let him hit his face
3) Duran went toe to toe with one of the best southpaws ever at middleweight


Duran would handle Whitaker.

1) Leonard may have been a better all-around fighter and ranked higher historically, but in no way was he a better out-fighter
2) Fighters who win solely on points don't need to hurt their opponent, and Whitaker was one of the best points fighters ever
3) Hagler was not remotely stylistically similar to Whitaker - false analogy

If Duran won, it would be by razor-thin points decision, not "handling".

Ziggy Stardust
07-10-2009, 11:16 AM
Bump......

Ziggy Stardust
07-11-2009, 10:52 AM
Bump......

DonTaseMeBrah
08-01-2009, 04:44 AM
u pegged morales as a lightweight not at featherweight?

Ziggy Stardust
08-01-2009, 11:17 AM
u pegged morales as a lightweight not at featherweight?

Because Morales was considered at his best as a Super-Featherweight and since this is "old-school eight" weight classes he gets bumped to the next higher division.

Poet

BattlingNelson
08-01-2009, 04:38 PM
Bump......
No Battling Nelson. No response :D

Stoppage
08-01-2009, 04:42 PM
Call me crazy but I think Whitaker would beat Duran.

boxingbuff
08-01-2009, 08:57 PM
I ramk Duran #1 and #2 all-time pound for pound.

McGoorty
09-14-2011, 04:04 PM
Fourth installment:


The Lightweights

1. Benny Leonard 1,603-306-91 (648) .824
2. Roberto Duran 1,561-372-67 (1,038) .797
3. Pernell Whitaker 1,426-454-120 (385) .743
4. Joe Gans 1,375-512-113 (517) .716
5. Ike Williams 1,196-716-88 (638) .620
6. Tony Canzoneri 1,031-817-152 (320) .554
7. Joe Brown 995-899-106 (414) .524
8. Jack Blackburn 962-898-140 (292) .516
9. Carlos Ortiz 959-916-125 (333) .511
10. Jem Driscoll 947-927-126 (271) .505
11. Hector Camacho 898-990-112 (325) .477
12. Julio Cesar Chavez 890-1,041-69 (592) .462
13. Diego Corrales 804-1,124-72 (509) .420
14. Bob Mongomery 723-1,165-112 (279) .390
15. Esteban DeJesus 734-1,183-83 (340) .388
16. Freddie Welsh 709-1,170-121 (247) .385
17. Azumah Nelson 720-1,190-90 (406) .383
18. Lew Tendler 661-1,200-139 (285) .365
19. Jose Luis Castillo 681-1,256-63 (431) .356
20. Edwin Rosario 674-1,277-49 (439) .349
21. Erik Morales 405-1,541-54 (245) .216
No Jack McAuliffe ????.......... by the way how did the tournaments pan out ???????

Ziggy Stardust
09-14-2011, 09:09 PM
No Jack McAuliffe ????.......... by the way how did the tournaments pan out ???????

These are the actual tournament results.

Poet

McGoorty
09-15-2011, 03:00 PM
Duran should win this quite handily
No way man....... this is maybe the toughest and best division of all time......... in fact the lightweights of Duran's time were pretty weak compsred to the 1890's, and the decades 00's through to the sixties........ there is no way any one of these guys has an easy run..... in fact among this company, Duran loses some fights, maybe winning a re-match, maybe not....... Think of all the styles of LW there have been...... Nobody goes through this lot anywhere near undefeated.... if you think that Duran (or anyone else) goes through one after the other of these guys UNBEATABLE, like he went through dozens of bums in his era......... He never met a Benny Leonard or a Gans or a nelson,... and I doubt if he fought any lightweight anywhere near McFarland or Ike Williams.... maybe Bob Montgomery's style gives Duran a puzzzle he can't solve.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is amongst the 50 greatest LW's, a guy who is the antidote to Duran...... Duran will be the antidote to some other guys styles.............. There is an antidote for every fighter. Maybe Duran ends up on top,... but I don't think so, I agree that Benny Leonard is the best, and the probable winner,... But as I said, even he will have his antidote out there,.... maybe Wolgast, maybe somebody we haven't mentioned yet..........................Try to get some more balance to your posts,.... that post was very ordinary.

McGoorty
09-15-2011, 03:02 PM
These are the actual tournament results.

Poet
I get it now....... Jack McAuliffe must not have a card........ he was extremely highly thought of,... and a dominant champion.

McGoorty
09-15-2011, 03:05 PM
No Battling Nelson. No response :D
Hear bloody hear...... Aussies and Danes unite !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ziggy Stardust
09-15-2011, 03:10 PM
I get it now....... Jack McAuliffe must not have a card........ he was extremely highly thought of,... and a dominant champion.

The problem was that McAuliffe had roughly 30+ other Lightweights rated higher overall than him......and as the field was limited to 21 he didn't make the cut to get in :) Battling Nelson was in the same boat. Like you said it's an extremely stacked division :grin9:

Poet

McGoorty
09-15-2011, 03:44 PM
The problem was that McAuliffe had roughly 30+ other Lightweights rated higher overall than him......and as the field was limited to 21 he didn't make the cut to get in :) Battling Nelson was in the same boat. Like you said it's an extremely stacked division :grin9:

Poet
It is very highly stacked,..... you'd have to admit that Nelson and McAuliffe would beat many of these guys to pulp..... you know how styles make fights... you know... very unpredictable. I think there were at least 40 greats from the LW division.... it's one of the few that still has most of recent decade's best fighters........... when I think that I can rate 30 LW's better than Shane Mosley, who BTW, I have a very, very high opinion of... I have him in top 10 p4p in the last 15 years.