View Full Version : The single greatest accomplishment in boxing history


RightCross94
07-09-2009, 12:01 AM
what do you guys reckon it is?

yeykax
07-09-2009, 12:15 AM
**** Henry Armstrong winning 3 championship in 3 weight classes at the same time!!!!!

mickey malone
07-09-2009, 12:18 AM
**** Henry Armstrong winning 3 championship in 3 weight classes at the same time!!!!!
Beat me to it!

Oh well... Foreman becoming the oldest man to win the HT is a good 2nd..

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 12:36 AM
what do you guys reckon it is?

I've always been partial to Foreman winning back the title 20 years after he lost it, but can't really argue with Armstrngs accomplishment. Hopkins being one of the best p4p fighters at 44 is impressive. Archie Moore's 131 ko's. Jack Johnson becoming the first black man to hold the heavyweight championship. Sam Langford being a dominant force from welterweight thru heavyweight. Harry Greb averaging more than 20 fights a year for his career against many of the best fighters of his era. I'll stick with my original pick, but there are a lot of great accomplishments that are noteworthy.

0Rooster4Life0
07-09-2009, 12:51 AM
There are so Many out there its Hard to narrow it to just 1. Foreman's Comeback was impressive. He took Holyfield to hell and Back, Evander was even Holding onto George the whole 12th round. that was impressive.


But i cant go past Henry Armstrong 3 championships in 3 weight classes is very impressive even more so that there were no inbetween Weight Classes back then.


Marciano's Acheivements is also great, But we could go on and on. Boxing is full of them. But i guess the Single best acomplishment would be being considered p4p the best fighter to ever step in the ring, and that Title goes to Ray Robinson, So thats my choice.



ROOSTER

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 01:09 AM
There are so Many out there its Hard to narrow it to just 1. Foreman's Comeback was impressive. He took Holyfield to hell and Back, Evander was even Holding onto George the whole 12th round. that was impressive.


But i cant go past Henry Armstrong 3 championships in 3 weight classes is very impressive even more so that there were no inbetween Weight Classes back then.


Marciano's Acheivements is also great, But we could go on and on. Boxing is full of them. But i guess the Single best acomplishment would be being considered p4p the best fighter to ever step in the ring, and that Title goes to Ray Robinson, So thats my choice.



ROOSTER

We can also trow in Wilfred Benitez winng a world title at just 17 years old.

mickey malone
07-09-2009, 01:54 AM
We can also trow in Wilfred Benitez winng a world title at just 17 years old.
Vinny Pazienza who moved up 2 weight divisions (LWW to LMW) & won his 2nd WT after recovering from a broken neck!!!! Now that deserves a mention..

MANGLER
07-09-2009, 01:56 AM
Some good answers here.

Throw in Tyson winnin a HW title at 20, and bein undisputed HW champ at 21.

Verstyle
07-09-2009, 01:59 AM
Some good answers here.

Throw in Tyson winnin a HW title at 20, and bein undisputed HW champ at 21.

Co-sign. Dude couldn't even drink at the bar and he was already world heavyweight champion.

0Rooster4Life0
07-09-2009, 02:01 AM
Some good answers here.

Throw in Tyson winnin a HW title at 20, and bein undisputed HW champ at 21.

Yes that is a great achievement and most likely will never been broken. Undisputed...damn i miss that

MANGLER
07-09-2009, 02:02 AM
Co-sign. Dude couldn't even drink at the bar and he was already world heavyweight champion.

Wonder if they dared to ID him. :blackeye:

Miburo
07-09-2009, 02:05 AM
Surprised Robinson hasn't been mentioned yet, 5 middleweight titles - that has to be the most title rematches won in history. He would also have been a legitimate three-weight champion under normal weather conditions against Maxim.

I would probably go with Armstrong though, he almost held four simultaneously but drew his MW title bout.

Miburo
07-09-2009, 02:07 AM
For those mentioning Tyson, you can't forget about Wilfred Benitez either, winning the linear JWW title at age 17.

0Rooster4Life0
07-09-2009, 02:11 AM
Surprised Robinson hasn't been mentioned yet, 5 middleweight titles - that has to be the most title rematches won in history. He would also have been a legitimate three-weight champion under normal weather conditions against Maxim.

I would probably go with Armstrong though, he almost held four simultaneously but drew his MW title bout.

I did bring up Robinson, Its hard to go past Robinson and Armstrong.


ROOSTER

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 02:15 AM
Vinny Pazienza who moved up 2 weight divisions (LWW to LMW) & won his 2nd WT after recovering from a broken neck!!!! Now that deserves a mention..

Actually he broke his neck shortly after winning the WBA title from Dele, my friend. But to come back and become a world class fighter again is certainly worth mention if not quite on par with the other accomplishments mentioned. :fing02:

Miburo
07-09-2009, 02:15 AM
I did bring up Robinson, Its hard to go past Robinson and Armstrong.


ROOSTER

Apologies, missed that last part of your post. Still, I think it's the 5 MW titles and all that entails which his claim rests upon.

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 02:19 AM
I got one.....25 title defenses, Joe Louis. This record will most likely never be broken by a heavyweight and probably not at any other weight either.

Miburo
07-09-2009, 02:30 AM
I got one.....25 title defenses, Joe Louis. This record will most likely never be broken by a heavyweight and probably not at any other weight either.

The problem in evaluating this is that fighters in any weight class below heavyweight rarely remain at a single weight for their entire careers (which is both fairly unrealistic and necessary to accumulate so many defenses).

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 02:39 AM
The problem in evaluating this is that fighters in any weight class below heavyweight rarely remain at a single weight for their entire careers (which is both fairly unrealistic and necessary to accumulate so many defenses).

The bigger problem is the amount of recognized champions in a weight class today. In Louis' day he wasn't beating the best named by the sanctioning organization, he was beating the best in the world. Records like Armstrong and Louis' will be virtually impossible to break today because of the changes in the sport. But this cannot take away from those accomplishments.

mickey malone
07-09-2009, 02:48 AM
Actually he broke his neck shortly after winning the WBA title from Dele, my friend. But to come back and become a world class fighter again is certainly worth mention if not quite on par with the other accomplishments mentioned. :fing02:
Thankyou for the correction.. I do have the odd mucking fuddle lol

Miburo
07-09-2009, 02:59 AM
The bigger problem is the amount of recognized champions in a weight class today. In Louis' day he wasn't beating the best named by the sanctioning organization, he was beating the best in the world. Records like Armstrong and Louis' will be virtually impossible to break today because of the changes in the sport. But this cannot take away from those accomplishments.

I'm not sure you can say just because he was the sole recognized champion he was fighting the best in the world unequivocally. He fought quite a large number of unworthy challengers as well - in those days the most deserving fighter rarely ever got a shot due to his ability (I'm pretty astonished Armstrong managed to secure four, his management must have really had some pull). I would actually say it's more common for the top fighters in the sport today to fight consistently worthy opponents (even if it involves shifting weight classes and disregarding the titles) than it was in the past.

THE REED™
07-09-2009, 03:02 AM
tyson winning the HW championship at only 20 is pretty big... foreman at 45 is real big

Miburo
07-09-2009, 03:06 AM
Once again, I'd like to question the Tyson fans: what's more impressive, winning an alphabet title at age 20 from Trevor Berbick, or winning the linear JWW title at age 17 from Antonio Cervantes?

Kinetic Linking
07-09-2009, 03:20 AM
Guys with natural disadvantages overcoming them are always pretty impressive.

Guys facing much larger opponents, specifically, are often impressive.

First three that come to mind are Barbados Joe Walcott, Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey.

Note that they were all totally ferocious two-handed fighters. I guess at a certain point skill doesn't cut it.

mickey malone
07-09-2009, 07:35 AM
I think it's fair to give RJJ a mention to (re: winning titles from MW to HW)

GJC
07-09-2009, 10:33 AM
I've always been partial to Foreman winning back the title 20 years after he lost it, but can't really argue with Armstrngs accomplishment. Hopkins being one of the best p4p fighters at 44 is impressive. Archie Moore's 131 ko's. Jack Johnson becoming the first black man to hold the heavyweight championship. Sam Langford being a dominant force from welterweight thru heavyweight. Harry Greb averaging more than 20 fights a year for his career against many of the best fighters of his era. I'll stick with my original pick, but there are a lot of great accomplishments that are noteworthy.
whooo leave some for other people :)

Brockton Lip
07-09-2009, 11:03 AM
Willie Pep coming back and regaining the title after the devastating plane crash certainly deserves mention.

Verstyle
07-09-2009, 01:27 PM
Once again, I'd like to question the Tyson fans: what's more impressive, winning an alphabet title at age 20 from Trevor Berbick, or winning the linear JWW title at age 17 from Antonio Cervantes?

When has the WBC belt being a alphabet belt? Winning it legit too. Tyson fought FULL grown big grown men. That said and he Benitez fought most ppl with losing records or their first fight up to the title. Tyson didn't, that's the difference on why he isn't talked about as much. Great accomplishment of course. VERY

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 02:40 PM
I'm not sure you can say just because he was the sole recognized champion he was fighting the best in the world unequivocally. He fought quite a large number of unworthy challengers as well - in those days the most deserving fighter rarely ever got a shot due to his ability (I'm pretty astonished Armstrong managed to secure four, his management must have really had some pull). I would actually say it's more common for the top fighters in the sport today to fight consistently worthy opponents (even if it involves shifting weight classes and disregarding the titles) than it was in the past.

He did not fight a large number of undeserving challengers my friend, almost all were top 10 at the time. But with 25 defenses a fighter is bound to have the occasional easy fight. Out of curiosity....who do you think Louis should have fought but didn't?

Miburo
07-09-2009, 02:56 PM
He did not fight a large number of undeserving challengers my friend, almost all were top 10 at the time. But with 25 defenses a fighter is bound to have the occasional easy fight. Out of curiosity....who do you think Louis should have fought but didn't?

Oh, I don't think he avoided any fighters per se; he was just a class above most of the available opponents during the bulk of his reign, it was somewhat of a weak era. Many of those he fought shouldn't have even been in the same ring with him, hence "bum of the month club".

Miburo
07-09-2009, 03:03 PM
When has the WBC belt being a alphabet belt? Winning it legit too. Tyson fought FULL grown big grown men. That said and he Benitez fought most ppl with losing records or their first fight up to the title. Tyson didn't, that's the difference on why he isn't talked about as much. Great accomplishment of course. VERY

All the belts are alphabet belts except for the Ring, the WBC isn't exempted from this (in fact the WBA was the original title). The titles had split, so he didn't claim the true world title until 21 (obviously still very impressive, even given the era).

You mention quality of opposition, but isn't it a more impressive feat to have basically never been in the ring with someone world class and still manage to win the linear title against a champion like Cervantes? Benitez was world-ranked by age 15, how insane is that?

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 03:14 PM
Oh, I don't think he avoided any fighters per se; he was just a class above most of the available opponents during the bulk of his reign, it was somewhat of a weak era. Many of those he fought shouldn't have even been in the same ring with him, hence "bum of the month club".

I could make a case that he would have completely dominated every era up till the late 60's, early 70's and would have been dominant in the late 70's, early 80's.

I could also make a case that he fought in one of the 3 or 4 best era's in heavyweight history.

By the way, I've always loved that picture of Fedor ion your av. Even busted up and bleeding the guys expression never changes. Guy is a beast!

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 03:18 PM
All the belts are alphabet belts except for the Ring, the WBC isn't exempted from this (in fact the WBA was the original title). The titles had split, so he didn't claim the true world title until 21 (obviously still very impressive, even given the era).

You mention quality of opposition, but isn't it a more impressive feat to have basically never been in the ring with someone world class and still manage to win the linear title against a champion like Cervantes? Benitez was world-ranked by age 15, how insane is that?

That is crazy! Never knew it either, thanks.

#1Assassin
07-09-2009, 03:23 PM
tommy hearns knocking guys out from 147 to 200lbs is pretty impressive. obviously not the most impressive thing ever, but just wanted to drop something that hadnt been mentioned already. my #1 pick would be armstrong or robinson.

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 03:28 PM
tommy hearns knocking guys out from 147 to 200lbs is pretty impressive.

You gotta throw Mickey Walkers hat in that ring than.

KnockoutTheFat
07-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Qawi being 5-6 winning a piece of the CW title. FFS Celestino Caballero towers over him and yet is 8 weight classes lighter then Qawi that's gotta be impressive

Miburo
07-09-2009, 03:30 PM
I could make a case that he would have completely dominated every era up till the late 60's, early 70's and would have been dominant in the late 70's, early 80's.

I could also make a case that he fought in one of the 3 or 4 best era's in heavyweight history.

I think if he had fought the succession of Walcott, Charles, and Marciano in his prime at least one of them would have gotten him, although rematch results would likely differ. It's hard to say how he would do against Liston, that's a very hard match to evaluate. Frazier would also be an interesting match-up. As I've stated before though, I don't see him beating Ali or Foreman, and I'd add Holmes to that list.

By the way, I've always loved that picture of Fedor ion your av. Even busted up and bleeding the guys expression never changes. Guy is a beast!

Thanks. Fedor displays a frightening level of concentration once he steps into the ring - one of the most intimidating stares in all of combat sports, just ice with no emotion whatsoever.

1SILVA
07-09-2009, 03:34 PM
**** Henry Armstrong winning 3 championship in 3 weight classes at the same time!!!!!

Yessir, I have to agree with that one.

Verstyle
07-09-2009, 03:39 PM
All the belts are alphabet belts except for the Ring, the WBC isn't exempted from this (in fact the WBA was the original title). The titles had split, so he didn't claim the true world title until 21 (obviously still very impressive, even given the era).

You mention quality of opposition, but isn't it a more impressive feat to have basically never been in the ring with someone world class and still manage to win the linear title against a champion like Cervantes? Benitez was world-ranked by age 15, how insane is that?

Impressive to do it at 15 but Tyson and many other fighters couldn't turn pro at that age.Haha. It's like a handicap since they couldn't do what he did. To most ppl alphabet are belts that really don't mean as much. So I can't include that one.

Once again, 17 is a great feat. I just wish other ppl had the opportunity to turn pro at the time he did.

TredKiller
07-09-2009, 03:41 PM
when jack johnson fought jeffers, the whole crown was chanting "kill the ******"
and jack johson beat him, was the first black HW champ.

when harry greb fought a record 48 times in 1 year, amazing.

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 03:51 PM
Benitez was world-ranked by age 15, how insane is that?

Think about that. The kid was a freshman or sophmore in high school and wasn't just one of the toughest kids in school, but one of the toughest men in the world. That is sick!

Cleto_Reyes
07-09-2009, 03:54 PM
Julio Cesar Chavez 27 consecutive Title defenses

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 03:58 PM
when jack johnson fought jeffers, the whole crown was chanting "kill the ******"
and jack johson beat him, was the first black HW champ.

Im sure there were plenty who were calling out racial names. I know Jim Corbett was one of them. But I've read the book "Unforgivable blackness" and don't recall the whole crown chanting it. Do you have a source for this?

Great Portuguese food in Fall River. Use to go there when I lived in East Providence.

TredKiller
07-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Im sure there were plenty who were calling out racial names. I know Jim Corbett was one of them. But I've read the book "Unforgivable blackness" and don't recall the whole crown chanting it. Do you have a source for this?

Great Portuguese food in Fall River. Use to go there when I lived in East Providence.

i read it on wikipedia under jack johnson.

and yep, fall river, we have like 5 portugese resturants, love portugese food.

RightCross94
07-09-2009, 06:49 PM
benitez's accomplishment is better than tysons, wilfred won it from an ATG in cervantes at age 17

tyson won it off berbick at age 20 (still impressive, but not as good)

id put benitez up there
id put duran taking leonards WW title
armstrong winning 3 titles
ali taking his title from foreman

JAB5239
07-09-2009, 08:32 PM
i read it on wikipedia under jack johnson.

Thats cool, I had just never read that.

and yep, fall river, we have like 5 portugese resturants, love portugese food.

.......:fing02:

BennyST
07-11-2009, 12:26 PM
Another good one would be Saensak Muangsurin winning the WBC 140 world title in only his third pro fight. Earliest title fight won in boxings history.