View Full Version : Joe Louis vs any great heavyweight


TheGreatA
07-05-2009, 10:26 AM
Seems to me as if no one rates Louis' head-to-head ability these days and that he is made out to be an underdog against just about any great heavyweight.

Which great heavyweights do you think he would be able to beat? Would you favour him over any post-early 1900's heavyweight?

WhoreUs
07-05-2009, 10:44 AM
louis ko over frazier
louis ko over patterson
louis ud over johnson
louis ud over holyfield
louis ko over moorer

ali and holmes would decision him.
liston , tyson and foreman would ko him.
lewis , bowe and klitschkos are too big for him.

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 10:47 AM
If Light Heavyweight Billy Conn dominated him, if Walcott a great boxer dominated him and got robbed, he got knocked down by everybody including BUMS like Galento..what makes you think he'd be so great against the best ever?

And now you're saying he's being underrated in these matchups while you and your clown posse pick him to beat ANYONE ever lived. Joke's on you lads.

GJC
07-05-2009, 10:53 AM
And now you're saying he's being underrated in these matchups while you and your clown posse pick him to beat ANYONE ever lived. Joke's on you lads.

I don't see anyone picking him to beat anyone who ever lived, I do see someone who doesn't seem to believe he could beat anybody though.
You obviously have a personal dislike for Louis and allow it to colour your opinions so it is impossible to have a reasonable balanced discussion with you.

TheGreatA
07-05-2009, 11:00 AM
If Light Heavyweight Billy Conn dominated him, if Walcott a great boxer dominated him and got robbed, he got knocked down by everybody including BUMS like Galento..what makes you think he'd be so great against the best ever?

And now you're saying he's being underrated in these matchups while you and your clown posse pick him to beat ANYONE ever lived. Joke's on you lads.

Conn and Walcott hardly dominated him if they both ended up flat on the canvas for over 10 seconds.

I've always picked Ali to beat Louis but I argue against people who think Ali would beat him without question. Both have weaknesses that could be exploited.

I also stated that I would favour Foreman over Louis in a single match-up due to his overwhelming power and strength. Again, people tend to overlook Foreman's obvious flaws which could play right into Louis' hands.

Here's a short video I've made of Louis quickly taking a look at his strengths and weaknesses:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f1452BrhJs0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f1452BrhJs0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
07:00

GJC
07-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Conn and Walcott hardly dominated him if they both ended up flat on the canvas for over 10 seconds.


You could as easily forward the Conn argument in the Mariano v Walcott 1 fight. Last man standing wins, end of broadcast.

Ziggy Stardust
07-05-2009, 11:19 AM
Seems to me as if no one rates Louis' head-to-head ability these days and that he is made out to be an underdog against just about any great heavyweight.

Which great heavyweights do you think he would be able to beat? Would you favour him over any post-early 1900's heavyweight?

It may well be a "generational" thing. There are lots of posters who have a line drawn in time and they tend to discount any fighter who fought prior to that point in time. Just where that line is drawn varies from poster to poster but as a general guideline the younger the poster is the closer to the present time that line is usually drawn.

This is different from a poster like Slimey Limey aka JulioCesa(r)Chavez aka Rafael Benitez: He's just a troll and an attention whore who hasn't figured out yet everybody laughs at him.

Poet

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 11:19 AM
I don't see anyone picking him to beat anyone who ever lived, I do see someone who doesn't seem to believe he could beat anybody though.
You obviously have a personal dislike for Louis and allow it to colour your opinions so it is impossible to have a reasonable balanced discussion with you.
That's about the strength of it mate....

A retard, who power walks through his neibourhood holding a can of white lightning while screaming abuse & spitting everywhere...

GJC
07-05-2009, 11:30 AM
That's about the strength of it mate....

A retard, who power walks through his neibourhood holding a can of white lightning while screaming abuse & spitting everywhere...
Me or him? :)

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 11:42 AM
I don't see anyone picking him to beat anyone who ever lived, I do see someone who doesn't seem to believe he could beat anybody though.
You obviously have a personal dislike for Louis and allow it to colour your opinions so it is impossible to have a reasonable balanced discussion with you.

Of cource you don't see it because you're blind to every fact that you don't like to hear.
I didn't say Louis wouldn't beat "anybody". He'd simply lose to most of the ATG's based on what I've seen from his fights. He's overrated.
I don't have a personal dislike for Louis himself, I have one for his fans who act as if he was this flawless invincible God who couldn't do anything wrong. Even with the worst possible styles mismatch you got morons who think he'd win. And those are mostly strawman arguments.

Like I said before, take off your so called Marciano fan mask and bend over in the Louis crowd where you belong.

Conn and Walcott hardly dominated him if they both ended up flat on the canvas for over 10 seconds.

I've always picked Ali to beat Louis but I argue against people who think Ali would beat him without question. Both have weaknesses that could be exploited.

I also stated that I would favour Foreman over Louis in a single match-up due to his overwhelming power and strength. Again, people tend to overlook Foreman's obvious flaws which could play right into Louis' hands.

Here's a short video I've made of Louis quickly taking a look at his strengths and weaknesses:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f1452BrhJs0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f1452BrhJs0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
07:00

So he finally caught a Light heavyweight and knocked him out after being completely dominated. As if that's something to be proud of.
And Louis never knocked out Walcott in the first fight. He was dominated there as well and was robbed.
Schmeling also slapped around and made Louis quit the first time.
Not to mention all the bums who hurt him and knocked him down.

All of this is a lot of stuff that shows Louis' was very vulnerable. Most of the ATG's took nowhere near this amount of abuse. He simply doesn't fair well in head to head matchups. like I said before, he's better off in a greatness argument because atleast he has consistency.


Me or him? :)

You and him both.

GJC
07-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Of cource you don't see it because you're blind to every fact that you don't like to hear.

Hold up the mirror on that one



I didn't say Louis wouldn't beat "anybody".
He'd simply lose to most of the ATG's based on what I've seen from his fights.

ok who would he beat in your opinion.



I don't have a personal dislike for Louis himself

Obviously not you have certainly made that abundantly clear.


Like I said before, take off your so called Marciano fan mask and bend over in the Louis crowd where you belong.


Not so called, if you care to read old posts of mine or I am sure other posters will agree that I am firmly a Marciano fan. Just not a blindly slavish one which ironically is an accusation you level at all Louis fans who make even the most innocuous comments as to his strengths.

Miburo
07-05-2009, 12:00 PM
Question: does anyone here see Walcott or Charles beating Louis in his prime?

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 12:08 PM
Question: does anyone here see Walcott or Charles beating Louis in his prime?


Walcott already did.


Charles is another great slick boxer so yes he would certainly beat a prime Louis.

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 12:09 PM
Question: does anyone here see Walcott or Charles beating Louis in his prime?
No.. I think Louis beats both....

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 12:16 PM
Hold up the mirror on that one


ok who would he beat in your opinion.



Obviously not you have certainly made that abundantly clear.



Not so called, if you care to read old posts of mine or I am sure other posters will agree that I am firmly a Marciano fan. Just not a blindly slavish one which ironically is an accusation you level at all Louis fans who make even the most innocuous comments as to his strengths.

Ali, Lewis, Foreman, Liston, Tyson, Holmes would beat him with ease. Frazier and Marciano would catch up with him. He'd fare the worst. It's up to you all who he would beat, or actually I wouldn't ask anyone in this section.

GJC
07-05-2009, 12:22 PM
And you just added Walcott and Charles to that list, so who if anyone in your opinion would Louis beat? C'mon must be half a dozen names you could mention through gritted teeth? :)

TheGreatA
07-05-2009, 12:24 PM
And you just added Walcott and Charles to that list, so who if anyone in your opinion would Louis beat? C'mon must be half a dozen names you could mention through gritted teeth? :)

Sugar Ray Robinson.

Actually it would probably end in a double TKO, with both men quitting.

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 12:59 PM
In my opinion:

Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Tyson, Bowe all beat him easily. Yes Bowe too. Too big, too smart a fighter. Beautiful inside work, hand a good jab.

And Lewis if he didnt get clocked. :D

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 01:21 PM
And you just added Walcott and Charles to that list, so who if anyone in your opinion would Louis beat? C'mon must be half a dozen names you could mention through gritted teeth? :)

I'll let you dwell in your own misery mate. I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of me giving Louis loads of phraise. Like I said, if you think Louis beats most greats you should give good arguments without ignoring his faults. Why won't you answer your own question?

GJC
07-05-2009, 01:48 PM
I'll let you dwell in your own misery mate. I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of me giving Louis loads of phraise. Like I said, if you think Louis beats most greats you should give good arguments without ignoring his faults. Why won't you answer your own question?
Because I think it would be good therapy for you to.
You think naming 6 HW champions that Louis would beat is giving "Louis loads of phraise"?
The fact that you won't speaks volumes, I will be dwelling in my own amusement not misery.
My opinion on who Louis beats and who he doesn't are on posts somewhere, i'll not repost them as I don't want your computer monitor to get too much spittle as you reply.

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 02:41 PM
Because I think it would be good therapy for you to.
You think naming 6 HW champions that Louis would beat is giving "Louis loads of phraise"?
The fact that you won't speaks volumes, I will be dwelling in my own amusement not misery.
My opinion on who Louis beats and who he doesn't are on posts somewhere, i'll not repost them as I don't want your computer monitor to get too much spittle as you reply.

If you can come up with somebody that would lose to bumbeater then I'll be glad to respond. But you hold a standard much too high for Louis. He'd crumble against most ATG's. This thread is not about HW champions vs Joe Louis, it's about GREATS vs Louis and no, I do not see him beating many greats, and yes I know it annoys you very much. I like that.
I mean look at you, you're practically BEGGING me to give Louis credit, this is quite pathetic mate. That's why you WILL dwell in your own misery.
I also think you don't really give a sack about Louis, it seems more like you are trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers here and want to create some friends.

Are you mad?

GJC
07-05-2009, 03:04 PM
and yes I know it annoys you very much. I like that.
I mean look at you, you're practically BEGGING me to give Louis credit, this is quite pathetic mate. That's why you WILL dwell in your own misery.
I also think you don't really give a sack about Louis, it seems more like you are trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers here and want to create some friends.
Are you mad?

I'm not trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers here I'm just confused and very amused by your OTT hatred of Louis.
BEGGING? I think not. Just a reasonable request, you name several fighters Louis will lose to so just so as I can get an idea of your thought process who would he beat? He obviously isn't number one in your mind, so number 2? 5? 20? 50? Simple question.

As to my state of mind, in the same post you say I'm begging you, I'm dewelling in my own misery and I'm annoyed but the I don't really care.
So it sounds like you are a little confused.
I'm feeling quite rational lucid and calm actually, hows you?

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 03:20 PM
Because I think it would be good therapy for you to.
You think naming 6 HW champions that Louis would beat is giving "Louis loads of phraise"?
The fact that you won't speaks volumes, I will be dwelling in my own amusement not misery.
My opinion on who Louis beats and who he doesn't are on posts somewhere, i'll not repost them as I don't want your computer monitor to get too much spittle as you reply.
Wasting your time mate... He's shot his bulk & has already spewed everything he knows..
He simply doesn't know.. It's just like his unique accusations about Louis & Robinson being a couple of scum bags.. He always comes back with, 'If only you knew' when no body does.. Not even 16bf, & look at the info he brings to the font!
It's all a big secret you see.. A sane or rational person would quote examples to back up his accusations.. As would someone who knew their boxing.. Slime is simply unable to do this.. It's all in his head & this makes him fundamentally retarded.. MM

Benny Leonard
07-05-2009, 03:32 PM
If Light Heavyweight Billy Conn dominated him, if Walcott a great boxer dominated him and got robbed, he got knocked down by everybody including BUMS like Galento..what makes you think he'd be so great against the best ever?

And now you're saying he's being underrated in these matchups while you and your clown posse pick him to beat ANYONE ever lived. Joke's on you lads.

Louis was past his prime when he fought Walcott and in the rematch knocked out Walcott. Yeah, the same Walcott that Rocky was struggling with and behind on points and took longer to knock Jersey out than Louis did. And Louis fought Walcott years before Rocky got to him.

Louis also fought Bigger HWs than Rocky and higher quality so end of discussion.

At least Conn, who was a LH, was in his prime unlike the other LH that Rocky fought.
And if you look at that fight, Conn was doing many things well but it is over-blown that he was being dominated. Look to the rounds before Conn was knocked out and you will see Louis wearing him down and continually setting Conn up. Conn couldn't move as much anymore because he was being worn down and not because he decided to trade.
Conn was also a very good fighter that had agility, and technique which tends to bother bigger fighters.



And that picture of Rocky hitting Louis is a disgrace. So much so that even Rocky cried about it. When you hit your Grandfather, it is sad day. Shame Rocky had to go through with that bout...a bout he didn't want to fight in.
Louis was shot and there are no high marks for the win.

Benny Leonard
07-05-2009, 03:58 PM
If you can come up with somebody that would lose to bumbeater then I'll be glad to respond. But you hold a standard much too high for Louis. He'd crumble against most ATG's. This thread is not about HW champions vs Joe Louis, it's about GREATS vs Louis and no, I do not see him beating many greats, and yes I know it annoys you very much. I like that.
I mean look at you, you're practically BEGGING me to give Louis credit, this is quite pathetic mate. That's why you WILL dwell in your own misery.
I also think you don't really give a sack about Louis, it seems more like you are trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers here and want to create some friends.

Are you mad?

Damn...in a way, we have a similar view on a fighter. You Louis and me Marciano. I don't see Marciano beating many ATG HW either...and possibly even some in Prime LH/CW greats...and even contenders {non-Champions}. It's still up in the air with me though.

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 07:17 PM
I dont think Rocky beats too many ATGs. Cant think of any locks for him.

Slimey Limey
07-06-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm not trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers here I'm just confused and very amused by your OTT hatred of Louis.
BEGGING? I think not. Just a reasonable request, you name several fighters Louis will lose to so just so as I can get an idea of your thought process who would he beat? He obviously isn't number one in your mind, so number 2? 5? 20? 50? Simple question.

As to my state of mind, in the same post you say I'm begging you, I'm dewelling in my own misery and I'm annoyed but the I don't really care.
So it sounds like you are a little confused.
I'm feeling quite rational lucid and calm actually, hows you?

Yes you're trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers by claiming you're a Marciano fan that respects Louis. What definitely is true is that you're no Rocky fan because you would have defended him against the moronic bloke above that tried to turn this thread into a Marciano bashing joke.
Yes begging. You asked me to give him credit way too many times and with too much dedication. It's obvious you'd get off on it and I'm not about to do that, mate. Use your left hand.
To the bolded part, that doesn't even make any sense. You sound like :trink26: there lad. It's probably best not to drink before posting, unless you're ME. So it looks more like you're the confused lad.

Slimey Limey
07-06-2009, 11:30 AM
Louis was past his prime when he fought Walcott and in the rematch knocked out Walcott. Yeah, the same Walcott that Rocky was struggling with and behind on points and took longer to knock Jersey out than Louis did. And Louis fought Walcott years before Rocky got to him.

Louis also fought Bigger HWs than Rocky and higher quality so end of discussion.

At least Conn, who was a LH, was in his prime unlike the other LH that Rocky fought.
And if you look at that fight, Conn was doing many things well but it is over-blown that he was being dominated. Look to the rounds before Conn was knocked out and you will see Louis wearing him down and continually setting Conn up. Conn couldn't move as much anymore because he was being worn down and not because he decided to trade.
Conn was also a very good fighter that had agility, and technique which tends to bother bigger fighters..

GOOD JOB mate. You did exactly what I wanted you all to do. Which is showing your true Louis nuthugging face. Which is responding by trying to rip on the fighter me and others are fans of. Thank you lad.


And that picture of Rocky hitting Louis is a disgrace. So much so that even Rocky cried about it. When you hit your Grandfather, it is sad day. Shame Rocky had to go through with that bout...a bout he didn't want to fight in.
Louis was shot and there are no high marks for the win

:bottle:

It's quite a nice sight actually. It's a symbol of seeing a disgraceful champion being put away with brutal force by a new breath of fresh air, and a total opposite.
Stare at it.

Benny Leonard
07-06-2009, 02:04 PM
GOOD JOB mate. You did exactly what I wanted you all to do. Which is showing your true Louis nuthugging face. Which is responding by trying to rip on the fighter me and others are fans of. Thank you lad.




:bottle:

It's quite a nice sight actually. It's a symbol of seeing a disgraceful champion being put away with brutal force by a new breath of fresh air, and a total opposite.
Stare at it.


I've never shied away with my opinions towards Louis. I've posted for a long time and if anybody followed my posts they know Louis is my favorite fighter, however; I can't be a nuthugger because I would favor some fighters over Louis, agree that he has weaknesses, and I've discussed this in the past as well. Nuthuggers don't do that.

Your character that you are doing is that of nuthugger: Someone who is extremely bias towards one particular fighter to the point of worshipping his soul, ignorant towards the sport in general, and feel threatened by anyone that says a bad word towards your fighter. However, that last part I've never gotten the feeling was true with you because you just seem to be someone that is typing to annoy people. At least I hope so because that would just be sad if you were actually doing this truthfully.


Point on Marciano for Me: I've given credit to Marciano as a fighter and especially as an under 200 pound fighter. If we compare him with fighters under 200 pounds, I've always maintained that he was one of the best. The problem for me is putting him next to other HWs that fought legit 200+ pound HWs that were also over 6'0 tall.
Marciano fought certain kinds of fighters and because of that; it leaves him unproven in many ways.
We have footage of his fights and in those fights we don't necessarily see a "dominant" fighter like some make him out to be. He did have his weak points like everybody else. Even his power, for all the talk of that one shot that landed on Walcott which was one of the great punches in boxing history, Walcott did take many shots in prior rounds on the chin and didn't go down. So for those that act like Marciano didn't land a single punch up until that last devastating blow....need to actually watch the fight.
Many factors went into that final blow that made it devastating which is a part of boxing.

I could see him lose to a number of fighters because of his competition and how they did against him. How other fighters looked in their careers and the attributes they brought all while comparing the fighters to come up with an answer of who would be favored and why. People differ on their opinions when it comes to this but the point to be made by you has to have reasons for your picking.


Picture: Point is, Louis was shot. So much so that Marciano didn't want to fight him. So you have a "shot" fighter's picture being knocked out by a younger opponent.
That's like having a picture of a Grandfather being beaten up by his Grandson.


If you were to be a Marciano hater that extreme (and going by the way you post) would be to put up a picture of Marciano's plane crash as a symbol of defeat to the "undefeated" champion. An act of showing that he was mortal and lost to Nature.

Do you see the extremes you use now?

Obviously you do. You can't be that over the top and ignorant because if you are...that's sad.

Ziggy Stardust
07-06-2009, 02:15 PM
I've never shied away with my opinions towards Louis. I've posted for a long time and if anybody followed my posts they know Louis is my favorite fighter, however; I can't be a nuthugger because I would favor some fighters over Louis, agree that he has weaknesses, and I've discussed this in the past as well. Nuthuggers don't do that.

Your character that you are doing is that of nuthugger: Someone who is extremely bias towards one particular fighter to the point of worshipping his soul, ignorant towards the sport in general, and feel threatened by anyone that says a bad word towards your fighter. However, that last part I've never gotten the feeling was true with you because you just seem to be someone that is typing to annoy people. At least I hope so because that would just be sad if you were actually doing this truthfully.

Point on Marciano for Me: I've given credit to Marciano as a fighter and especially as an under 200 pound fighter. If we compare him with fighters under 200 pounds, I've always maintained that he was one of the best. The problem for me is putting him next to other HWs that fought legit 200+ pound HWs that were also over 6'0 tall.
Marciano fought certain kinds of fighters and because of that; it leaves him unproven in many ways.
We have footage of his fights and in those fights we don't necessarily see a "dominant" fighter like some make him out to be. He did have his weak points like everybody else. Even his power, for all the talk of that one shot that landed on Walcott which was one of the great punches in boxing history, Walcott did take many shots in prior rounds on the chin and didn't go down. So for those that act like Marciano didn't land a single punch up until that last devastating blow....need to actually watch the fight.
Many factors went into that final blow that made it devastating which is a part of boxing.

I could see him lose to a number of fighters because of his competition and how they did against him. How other fighters looked in their careers and the attributes they brought all while comparing the fighters to come up with an answer of who would be favored and why. People differ on their opinions when it comes to this but the point to be made by you has to have reasons for your picking.

Picture: Point is, Louis was shot. So much so that Marciano didn't want to fight him. So you have a "shot" fighter's picture being knocked out by a younger opponent.
That's like having a picture of a Grandfather being beaten up by his Grandson.

My own critique of Marciano was to demonstrate that any fighter can be picked apart and that to focus solely on a fighter's weakness is being intellectually dishonest. While I'm not a fan of Marciano I do have respect for him and an his accomplishments, and unlike many posters here (including many I respect as knowledgable posters) I consider Marciano and ATG and have him in my top-ten all-time (currently at number 9).

Poet

mickey malone
07-06-2009, 02:41 PM
My own critique of Marciano was to demonstrate that any fighter can be picked apart and that to focus solely on a fighter's weakness is being intellectually dishonest. While I'm not a fan of Marciano I do have respect for him and an his accomplishments, and unlike many posters here (including many I respect as knowledgable posters) I consider Marciano and ATG and have him in my top-ten all-time (currently at number 9).

Poet
Ah... Float fishing for Tench... A traditional bottom feeder.. Through in the maggots & wait for dawn.....

GJC
07-06-2009, 04:08 PM
Yes you're trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers by claiming you're a Marciano fan that respects Louis. What definitely is true is that you're no Rocky fan because you would have defended him against the moronic bloke above that tried to turn this thread into a Marciano bashing joke.
Yes begging. You asked me to give him credit way too many times and with too much dedication. It's obvious you'd get off on it and I'm not about to do that, mate. Use your left hand.
To the bolded part, that doesn't even make any sense. You sound like :trink26: there lad. It's probably best not to drink before posting, unless you're ME. So it looks more like you're the confused lad.

I repost the bolded part with the two typing mistakes amended:
As to my state of mind, in the same post you say I'm begging you, I'm dwelling in my own misery and I'm annoyed but then I don't really care.
If it doesn't make any sense it was because I was answering by requoting your rants back to you.
As to my obviously not being a Marciano fan because I have not "defended him against the moronic bloke who turned this thread into a Marciano bashing joke"?
One: I hadn't read the post before you posted your latest drivel.
Two: You turned another thread about who was the worst role model into an anti Louis rant for little reason.

As to my begging far too much for you to give Louis credit, it was just for my amusement to highlight how personal and irrational this hatred you have towards Louis is. I am not a fan of Wlad but would happily name 6 ex HW champions I believe he would beat.

I suggest if you are drinking before posting you should stop as it may be affecting your medication.

GJC
07-06-2009, 04:23 PM
Louis was past his prime when he fought Walcott and in the rematch knocked out Walcott. Yeah, the same Walcott that Rocky was struggling with and behind on points and took longer to knock Jersey out than Louis did. And Louis fought Walcott years before Rocky got to him.


Whilst Rocky fought Walcott 5 years ish after Louis did I wouldn't say Walcott was any less prime than when he fought Louis. Walcott's record was always a little spotty at the best of times, in the 5 fights before the 1st Louis fight he was 1-1 against Elmer Ray and 2-1 against Joey Maxim. Whereas he had made 2 solid defences against Charles before fighting Marciano. Also Walcott was one of those fighters such as Archie Moore and Hopkins who improved with age.
As to who was more effective against Walcott, Louis was lucky to get the nod in the first fight and ko'd Walcott in the eleventh in the 2nd fight.
Took Rocky a little longer in the 1st true but fairly swift ko in the second?

Hopefully this will appease Slimey and also show him how to make a point without ranting like a maniac :)

Slimey Limey
07-07-2009, 09:32 AM
I've never shied away with my opinions towards Louis. I've posted for a long time and if anybody followed my posts they know Louis is my favorite fighter, however; I can't be a nuthugger because I would favor some fighters over Louis, agree that he has weaknesses, and I've discussed this in the past as well. Nuthuggers don't do that.

Your character that you are doing is that of nuthugger: Someone who is extremely bias towards one particular fighter to the point of worshipping his soul, ignorant towards the sport in general, and feel threatened by anyone that says a bad word towards your fighter. However, that last part I've never gotten the feeling was true with you because you just seem to be someone that is typing to annoy people. At least I hope so because that would just be sad if you were actually doing this truthfully.


Point on Marciano for Me: I've given credit to Marciano as a fighter and especially as an under 200 pound fighter. If we compare him with fighters under 200 pounds, I've always maintained that he was one of the best. The problem for me is putting him next to other HWs that fought legit 200+ pound HWs that were also over 6'0 tall.
Marciano fought certain kinds of fighters and because of that; it leaves him unproven in many ways.
We have footage of his fights and in those fights we don't necessarily see a "dominant" fighter like some make him out to be. He did have his weak points like everybody else. Even his power, for all the talk of that one shot that landed on Walcott which was one of the great punches in boxing history, Walcott did take many shots in prior rounds on the chin and didn't go down. So for those that act like Marciano didn't land a single punch up until that last devastating blow....need to actually watch the fight.
Many factors went into that final blow that made it devastating which is a part of boxing.

I could see him lose to a number of fighters because of his competition and how they did against him. How other fighters looked in their careers and the attributes they brought all while comparing the fighters to come up with an answer of who would be favored and why. People differ on their opinions when it comes to this but the point to be made by you has to have reasons for your picking.


Picture: Point is, Louis was shot. So much so that Marciano didn't want to fight him. So you have a "shot" fighter's picture being knocked out by a younger opponent.
That's like having a picture of a Grandfather being beaten up by his Grandson.


If you were to be a Marciano hater that extreme (and going by the way you post) would be to put up a picture of Marciano's plane crash as a symbol of defeat to the "undefeated" champion. An act of showing that he was mortal and lost to Nature.

Do you see the extremes you use now?

Obviously you do. You can't be that over the top and ignorant because if you are...that's sad.

You are truly the most disgusting Louis nuthugger I've witnessed here yet.

You are so desperate for me to stop speaking the truth about Louis that you try to use shock value, mentioning Marciano's death in your last attempt. You should be slapped silly for even going there and comparing me to something despicable like that.
I could have insulted Poet about his dead wife many times, I didn't. I could have made jokes about Louis dieing because he was a cocaine addict, didn't do that either.

While reading your post I can just picture you in my mind crying like a baby. But sorry Louis fanboy, if you only want to hear the fake super positive things about Louis go to a Louis forum. On this site however every fighter gets EQUAL treatment.

Slimey Limey
07-07-2009, 09:37 AM
One: I hadn't read the post before you posted your latest drivel.
Two: You turned another thread about who was the worst role model into an anti Louis rant for little reason..

That does not answer the fact that you didn't stand up for Marciano like a true fan would. Instead, you let that Louis nuthugger **** on his entire career and even bring up his death, which should be blasphemy for any Rocky fan. Who are you still trying to fool lad?

As to my begging far too much for you to give Louis credit, it was just for my amusement to highlight how personal and irrational this hatred you have towards Louis is. I am not a fan of Wlad but would happily name 6 ex HW champions I believe he would beat.

If you care about my thoughts so much, make a seperate thread where you can interview me about opponents that Louis would beat. But mate, don't ask me irrelevant questions going completely off topic in a thread just for you own sick amusement.
Now, a good technique for your begging would be bribing. Try it out lad.

Benny Leonard
07-07-2009, 06:34 PM
Whilst Rocky fought Walcott 5 years ish after Louis did I wouldn't say Walcott was any less prime than when he fought Louis. Walcott's record was always a little spotty at the best of times, in the 5 fights before the 1st Louis fight he was 1-1 against Elmer Ray and 2-1 against Joey Maxim. Whereas he had made 2 solid defences against Charles before fighting Marciano. Also Walcott was one of those fighters such as Archie Moore and Hopkins who improved with age.
As to who was more effective against Walcott, Louis was lucky to get the nod in the first fight and ko'd Walcott in the eleventh in the 2nd fight.
Took Rocky a little longer in the 1st true but fairly swift ko in the second?

Hopefully this will appease Slimey and also show him how to make a point without ranting like a maniac :)

You can only improve technically with age and even then, with declining attributes such as speed, reflexes, stamina...you are still going to have flaws. As far as conditioning, nobody beats Father-Time. You can do your best to slow the decline through genetics, good living, training, rest, etc, but their is no beating the aging process.

Even Hopkins, for all his incredible work-ethic and clean living, and modern nutrition/science/Doctors/Specialists; he declined physically with age. This is where Hopkins started to be called a "boring" fighter. His stamina wasn't the same so he threw less and conserved energy. Even Allen, who fought Hopkins 3 times (or so) said Hopkins had declined as a fighter...which included Hopkins power.

The point with Walcott also was that it shows what he was. He's lost many times before and has been knocked out before Marciano got to him...let alone a past prime Louis.

Also of note are the wars Charles, Moore, and Walcott went through before Rocky. Matter of fact, they were beating the **** out of each other all before Rocky got to them. YES, that does matter.
All were over the age of 30; all had many fights under their belt which included many Wars, being knocked down and knocked out.

Benny Leonard
07-07-2009, 06:50 PM
You are truly the most disgusting Louis nuthugger I've witnessed here yet.

You are so desperate for me to stop speaking the truth about Louis that you try to use shock value, mentioning Marciano's death in your last attempt. You should be slapped silly for even going there and comparing me to something despicable like that.
I could have insulted Poet about his dead wife many times, I didn't. I could have made jokes about Louis dieing because he was a cocaine addict, didn't do that either.

While reading your post I can just picture you in my mind crying like a baby. But sorry Louis fanboy, if you only want to hear the fake super positive things about Louis go to a Louis forum. On this site however every fighter gets EQUAL treatment.


Are you really that blind that you missed the point?

This is my quote. I didn't think it was that hard to understand the point

Picture: Point is, Louis was shot. So much so that Marciano didn't want to fight him. So you have a "shot" fighter's picture being knocked out by a younger opponent.
That's like having a picture of a Grandfather being beaten up by his Grandson.


If you were to be a Marciano hater that extreme (and going by the way you post) would be to put up a picture of Marciano's plane crash as a symbol of defeat to the "undefeated" champion. An act of showing that he was mortal and lost to Nature.

Do you see the extremes you use now?

Louis being shot = him being dead (as a fighter). To use a picture of a dead fighter and prop it up like it is some sort of feat and this goes with something that is symbolic...it will be the same with my point with Rocky while using the extreme.
All is for shock and to piss off the other side and to show they are Human after all. That was my point to you but obviously you miss the point.

If it was an innocent picture to show Rocky at his peak of his climb to the title, then it would be OK despite it being a shot version of Louis on the other end. In a way, it shows we all fall; we all will decline...and the younger, hungrier, in prime fighter will bring you down if you stay to long. But in a discussion when you are ripping the fighter in the picture, then it becomes something else.


If you go back and forth with shock tactics that is the result of both sides going at it. You rip on Louis's life outside of boxing and things about Marciano's outside life come about which aren't Saint like. Have I brought them up in this discussion? NO.

And for Louis: I've always talked freely about his use of drugs in his life with others. His affairs and so on. I don't have a problem with that. He is flawed like the rest of us.
I've also said Ali has a better resume; the best HW resume in History actually. I've also said I have a list of fighters that could probably beat Louis.

And your point now is?




So here are some questions:

Where does Rocky rate all time at HW?

Can any HW in history beat Rocky?

How does Rocky beat a Prime Louis?

Who was Rocky's best wins and were they in their prime?

Name me a HW that Rocky faced that was naturally over 200 pounds that was good?

Please use detailed answers.