View Full Version : George Foreman Vs Joe Louis


0Rooster4Life0
07-05-2009, 05:45 AM
This is a matchup i beleave would be a classic, but would end fairly fast.

Although i respct the hell out of Joe Louis i beleave he would be KOed by Big George within 3. I cant think of anyone in history who could stand toe to toe in the middle to the ring and beat George. And thats how Joe would fight him. Joe had slow footwork with a great jab ( on of the best if not THE best ) but even his jab wouldnt stop George.


Joes chin was questionable at times and was put down by men that were not known for power. The matchup is all wrong for Joe. the only man that joe fought who was similar was Max Baer, But Max is no George Foreman.


I could go on and on about why George would win, but id rather hear some of your Opinions.



My Thoughts

Foreman KO round 2 ( Not because Joe isnt good, Foreman would be just to much to handle for the brown bomber)

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 07:37 AM
I think you're right.. He'd shock him, much like Schmelling.. But Louis was one of the best at reaping retribution, & he'd devise a strategy to redeem himself.. In a second fight, he'd outbox Foreman, & if Ali could KO him, then I'm sure Louis could.. Louis didn't hit quite as hard as big George, but believe me, he wasn't far behind... As a fighter that had chilling power in both hands, he was probably ahead.. Add this to his switch hitting ability (something Foreman could not do) & Louis has his number! MM

0Rooster4Life0
07-05-2009, 07:48 AM
I Agree, Louis did have alot of power in each hand, His punching style was the best ive seen, Short straight punches that were Lethal. The problem Louis has with George is his foot speed, You say that he could out box George in a re match but he did not have the footwork to out box George. But this is Joe Louis, and someone that great always has a chance.

But George has his number i feel. To much power for Joe to handle.


Rooster

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 08:12 AM
I Agree, Louis did have alot of power in each hand, His punching style was the best ive seen, Short straight punches that were Lethal. The problem Louis has with George is his foot speed, You say that he could out box George in a re match but he did not have the footwork to out box George. But this is Joe Louis, and someone that great always has a chance.

But George has his number i feel. To much power for Joe to handle.


Rooster
Granted.. But George wasn't exactly Rudolf Neuriev on his feet either...

JAB5239
07-05-2009, 08:14 AM
I Agree, Louis did have alot of power in each hand, His punching style was the best ive seen, Short straight punches that were Lethal. The problem Louis has with George is his foot speed, You say that he could out box George in a re match but he did not have the footwork to out box George. But this is Joe Louis, and someone that great always has a chance.

But George has his number i feel. To much power for Joe to handle.


Rooster

If Goerge catches him it lights out, and there is a good possibility of that happening. On the other hand, if George doesn't get him by the 5th he'll get beat up and stopped himself.

I think you underestimate Louis' footwork a bit. Joe wasn't a dancer by any stretch, but he wasn't as slow a foot as many make him out to be. His style was specificly designed to bring his opponents into his power zone. mI can't recall which of his opponents described it, but they said something to the effect that his footspeed was very decieving. That he looked to be moving slowly but could close the gap very swiftly.

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 08:40 AM
If Goerge catches him it lights out, and there is a good possibility of that happening. On the other hand, if George doesn't get him by the 5th he'll get beat up and stopped himself.

I think you underestimate Louis' footwork a bit. Joe wasn't a dancer by any stretch, but he wasn't as slow a foot as many make him out to be. His style was specificly designed to bring his opponents into his power zone. mI can't recall which of his opponents described it, but they said something to the effect that his footspeed was very decieving. That he looked to be moving slowly but could close the gap very swiftly.
'Creeping Death' is a good description...

TheGreatA
07-05-2009, 08:42 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Louis was able to pick his shots and take apart the wide-swinging Foreman with pin-point accurate counter punches.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C5zkE4BkMgg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C5zkE4BkMgg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I don't think either have their "numbers", it would be a fight that could go either way. I might slightly favour Foreman in a single fight due to his raw power and ability to take punishment but Louis would surely develop a strategy to beat him in rematches.

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 08:48 AM
Joe Louis gets his clock cleaned here. It's the Frazier fight for me (similar). JL had a suspect chin, went down too much. Foreman lands a bomb.

TheGreatA
07-05-2009, 08:59 AM
Joe Louis gets his clock cleaned here. It's the Frazier fight for me (similar). JL had a suspect chin, went down too much. Foreman lands a bomb.

Louis fights nothing like Frazier.

Not saying it couldn't happen but there are more factors at play than Louis' supposed "suspect chin".

Foreman was way open for counter punches, Peralta, Young, Lyle and Ali landed on him at will. Louis if anyone could exploit his lack of defense.

I often pick the shorter, more accurate puncher against the wild-swinging, cruder one.

JAB5239
07-05-2009, 09:03 AM
Joe Louis gets his clock cleaned here. It's the Frazier fight for me (similar). JL had a suspect chin, went down too much. Foreman lands a bomb.

Whoever wins, I don't see this resembling the Frazier fight at all. Joe went right at George. Louis would let Foreman come to him and look to counter.

GJC
07-05-2009, 09:11 AM
I might slightly favour Foreman in a single fight due to his raw power and ability to take punishment but Louis would surely develop a strategy to beat him in rematches.

Louis was always more effective in rematches.

TheGreatA
07-05-2009, 09:12 AM
Whoever wins, I don't see this resembling the Frazier fight at all. Joe went right at George. Louis would let Foreman come to him and look to counter.

Frazier walked right into Foreman's overwhelming power.

Even he admitted that it was an idiotic strategy afterwards and actually made Foreman come at him in their rematch. Frazier did better and lasted longer, landing several effective counter hooks, despite being overweight and shot as a fighter.

I might see why one would compare it to the Norton fight (not that anyone has). Norton looked to counter, made Foreman come at him, but he was overwhelmed in the second round when Foreman was able to cut the ring off effectively.

Norton however was notoriously bad off the backfoot and was knocked out everytime I saw him forced to go backwards. He started his career at a late age and only ever had one way to fight.

Louis actually preferred to have his opponents stand right in front of him.

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 09:13 AM
I just see Foreman landing his bombs and Louis going down, getting up and going down again. You need quick feet to off set Foreman [to get inside], or an iron chin ala Ali, Joe Louis had neither.

His footspeed was aweful.

TheGreatA
07-05-2009, 09:19 AM
I just see Foreman landing his bombs and Louis going down, getting up and going down again. You need quick feet to off set Foreman [to get inside], or an iron chin ala Ali, Joe Louis had neither.

His footspeed was aweful.

Did you watch the Baer fight I posted earlier? His footspeed doesn't seem awful to me at all. He was simply very economical, something Foreman would have benefited from early in his career.

I also don't agree with your description of what is needed to trouble Foreman. Ali, Lyle and Young used very little foot movement against him, they were simply able to counter in between his wider punches.

Good foot movement was a viable tool against the 40+ year old Foreman but the younger version would quickly cut the ring off.

JAB5239
07-05-2009, 09:23 AM
I just see Foreman landing his bombs and Louis going down, getting up and going down again. You need quick feet to off set Foreman [to get inside], or an iron chin ala Ali, Joe Louis had neither.

Neither did Ron Lyle and he was beating Foreman till the stoppage came. Louis was a much better fighter than Lyle and you can be sure if he put George down the way Lyle did, he would have finished him.

His footspeed was aweful.

No, you simply don't understand the stratagy employed by Louis and his team.

0Rooster4Life0
07-05-2009, 09:27 AM
All of you have Valid points, and all points i have takin into consideration, But what overwhelms me is i cant see Any HW standing toe to toe with Foreman and Surviving. Louis had great power, good counters and picked his shots well. But to have the chance for that to swing in his favor he would have to last against George.and thats a BIG ask.


I stick with my original thoughts, Foreman By KO ,


If you stand there with George and try to pick him off like Joe did to Baer , your going to get hit with one of those famous Uppercuts, in a Rematch Joe may find a way. if they only fought once i cant see Joe winning this fight.

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 09:32 AM
I take it this is a prime 4 prime thing..
If so.. The younger Foreman had documented issues with nervous energy, & tended to gas a lot if he couldn't put em away.. Louis would capitalize on this for sure..

Miburo
07-05-2009, 09:49 AM
I'll go with Foreman here, every time. Just too much of a strength and reach advantage. Lewis was not particularly mobile and had a good, but not granite, chin. I see Foreman stopping him in 4 or 5 rounds, though Louis might have his moments early.

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 10:21 AM
Foreman would brutally slaughter him in 1 minute. It wouldn't be a fight.

He'd push him around at will and keep throwing those bombs, there'd be no chance for poor old Louis since he'd get knocked down by blocked punches not to mention a flush accurate shot on his china thin paper chin. Two ton Walrus Galento knocked him down for fooks sake. I would have loved to see this.

As disgusting as always the Louis cheerleading nuthuggers find a way to make it seem like he'd have a chance or even win in this impossible matchup.

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 11:06 AM
Foreman would brutally slaughter him in 1 minute. It wouldn't be a fight.

He'd push him around at will and keep throwing those bombs, there'd be no chance for poor old Louis since he'd get knocked down by blocked punches not to mention a flush accurate shot on his china thin paper chin. Two ton Walrus Galento knocked him down for fooks sake. I would have loved to see this.

As disgusting as always the Louis cheerleading nuthuggers find a way to make it seem like he'd have a chance or even win in this impossible matchup.
Are you one of those short blokes who wore multi coloured platforms in the 70's?

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 12:39 PM
The only HW I give a chance of standing with Foreman and winning is Tyson. Hit just as hard, much better movement and speed. Also a solid chin.

Even then he's only a chance.

GJC
07-05-2009, 12:53 PM
The only HW I give a chance of standing with Foreman and winning is Tyson. Hit just as hard, much better movement and speed. Also a solid chin.

Even then he's only a chance.
Problem with Tyson is that he wasn't a particularily good inside fighter. Long range and medium range you have to fancy Foreman. Stamina is about the same so I figure it on being a maximum of 5 rounds whoever wins.
Tyson against someone of Forman's power and struggling with an 11 inch reach defecit against someone who knows how to use it. Also if he gets through Foreman had a good chin so possibly taking 3 punches to get 1?
Got to go with Foreman myself

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 12:57 PM
I see that, but feel Mike may have slipped inside the reach and exploded. Mike was a good inside fighter in my opinion. Once inside, he hits so hard it has to make an impact. I can see the case for Foreman too.

A 2-1/3 fight for me.

them_apples
07-05-2009, 09:29 PM
I see that, but feel Mike may have slipped inside the reach and exploded. Mike was a good inside fighter in my opinion. Once inside, he hits so hard it has to make an impact. I can see the case for Foreman too.

A 2-1/3 fight for me.

Only chance Mike has is if he gets to Foreman right off the bat when his hands are down, if he fails to stop him it's a certain KO for Foreman because Tyson wouldn't run.

hemichromis
07-05-2009, 11:05 PM
The only HW I give a chance of standing with Foreman and winning is Tyson. Hit just as hard, much better movement and speed. Also a solid chin.

Even then he's only a chance.

yeh ALI certainly couldnt!! joking aside tyson is a style that would play into foremans hands.

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 11:29 PM
I mean a straight slug-out. Ali out thought Foreman.

JAB5239
07-06-2009, 06:56 AM
I mean a straight slug-out. Ali out thought Foreman.

No fighter with a brain is going to just stand and trade with Foreman. That said, Ali WAS in front of him the whole fight and still beat him.

them_apples
07-07-2009, 03:00 PM
Louis fights nothing like Frazier.

Not saying it couldn't happen but there are more factors at play than Louis' supposed "suspect chin".

Foreman was way open for counter punches, Peralta, Young, Lyle and Ali landed on him at will. Louis if anyone could exploit his lack of defense.

I often pick the shorter, more accurate puncher against the wild-swinging, cruder one.

yea but they both would walk right into Georges punching zone, Frazier had an even tougher chin than Louis and he got hammered by standing right in front of George.

Cotto Rules
07-07-2009, 03:10 PM
Joe Louis gets knocked out, he had a suspect chin and was too small to hurt Foreman. Foreman had too much power for him and Joe Louis' skills won't help him in this fight.
Foreman KO's him with ease and brutally in the first three rounds.

Foreman by KO round 1.

Dynamite Glove
07-07-2009, 05:46 PM
Foreman would win via KO or TKO before round 11. I would even bet that an old Foreman would KO Louis.

TheGreatA
07-07-2009, 05:57 PM
Foreman would win via KO or TKO before round 11. I would even bet that an old Foreman would KO Louis.

He would have to win before the middle rounds. It would be all Louis by round 11, if the fight lasted that long.

yea but they both would walk right into Georges punching zone, Frazier had an even tougher chin than Louis and he got hammered by standing right in front of George.

I don't think Louis would walk right into Foreman's power. He used to fight as the counter puncher against big punchers, keeping his range. Frazier had one way to fight, strictly by pressing forward, even if it meant getting hit.

Believe it or not but Louis used to be more of a mover until his trainer Jack Blackburn convinced him to become a "stalker", slowly shuffling his feet forward, always being set to throw power punches with both hands.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C5zkE4BkMgg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C5zkE4BkMgg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

A typical Frazier performance:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JS7MaE99GBs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JS7MaE99GBs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

bklynboy
07-07-2009, 10:53 PM
I just see Foreman landing his bombs and Louis going down, getting up and going down again. You need quick feet to off set Foreman [to get inside], or an iron chin ala Ali, Joe Louis had neither.

His footspeed was aweful.

Louis may not have had tremendous foot speed but he was not a plodder. And don't forget Foreman's wide punches. I don't see Foreman landing at will against Louis. His wide punches would be slipped and Joe Louis had accurate short punches.

Louis could get inside Foreman. Young George would walk in -- or should I say plod in -- throw the wide punches and Louis would easily get inside and hit him hard.

The key question with Joe Louis is his chin. Did he have weak chin and good recuperative powers? did he lose concentration?

bklynboy
07-07-2009, 10:58 PM
Foreman would brutally slaughter him in 1 minute. It wouldn't be a fight.

He'd push him around at will and keep throwing those bombs, there'd be no chance for poor old Louis since he'd get knocked down by blocked punches not to mention a flush accurate shot on his china thin paper chin. Two ton Walrus Galento knocked him down for fooks sake. I would have loved to see this.

As disgusting as always the Louis cheerleading nuthuggers find a way to make it seem like he'd have a chance or even win in this impossible matchup.

I'm not the biggest Louis fan but Joe Louis was not a bum. Even if you don't rank him among the one or two best he's -- at the very least a top 5 heavyweight. Or lets say he was "only" a top 10 heavyweight. That's not a f**king bum.

bklynboy
07-07-2009, 11:03 PM
The only HW I give a chance of standing with Foreman and winning is Tyson. Hit just as hard, much better movement and speed. Also a solid chin.

Even then he's only a chance.

How do you explain his loss to Ali and Young? Young George had power beyond belief but his punches were wide and he didn't know how to pace himself and simply win rounds. Joe Louis wouldn't have done the same thing Ali did but he would have come up with his own solution. It might not have worked, but he would not stand there and get hit.

Those wide punches were Young George's achilles heal.

bklynboy
07-07-2009, 11:05 PM
The only HW I give a chance of standing with Foreman and winning is Tyson. Hit just as hard, much better movement and speed. Also a solid chin.

Even then he's only a chance.

Foreman was a bad match-up for Tyson. Tyson was built to go after the Louis, Ali, Holmes and Klitschko's of the world.

RightCross94
07-07-2009, 11:16 PM
i think if louis could sit back and counter foremans wild shots, and then capitalise when george got tired, he could win this

but if george lands and hurt joe early i see him winning, joe would need to have a tight defence and a conservative approach in the early rounds as george bores down with his massive powershots

bklynboy
07-07-2009, 11:23 PM
i think if louis could sit back and counter foremans wild shots, and then capitalise when george got tired, he could win this

but if george lands and hurt joe early i see him winning, joe would need to have a tight defence and a conservative approach in the early rounds as george bores down with his massive powershots

true. And Louis was a lot faster than people are giving him credit for. He could back out of Foreman's range and come back inside the wide punches. Now if he was caught in a corner -- and George was very good at cutting off the ring and trapping people -- then it's another story. Louis could not let himself be trapped very often.