View Full Version : Joe Louis vs Ali, prime for prime


RightCross94
07-04-2009, 07:51 AM
Okay, who takes this one, state who you think wins, and how/why they win, give a good detailed analysis that we can talk over

Southpaw Stinger
07-04-2009, 07:58 AM
Whilst I think Louis is the only heavyweight who can rival Ali for the GOAT spot, I can't see him winning in a head to head match up. If you presented Louis with a static target, then he'd destroy it. But a fast moving target gave him problems. Louis' hands were fast but his feet were slow and I think it will be a case of Louis stalking Muhammad, and Ali circling and outlanding Louis.
The rounds would start piling up against Louis and I doubt Ali would make the same mistake as Billy Conn and start going toe to toe. Should Louis catch Ali, I'm sure he has the chin to take it and the common sense to keep back and clear his head.

I'll say Ali by UD or late TKO at best.

RightCross94
07-04-2009, 08:04 AM
Whilst I think Louis is the only heavyweight who can rival Ali for the GOAT spot, I can't see him winning in a head to head match up. If you presented Louis with a static target, then he'd destroy it. But a fast moving target gave him problems. Louis' hands were fast but his feet were slow and I think it will be a case of Louis stalking Muhammad, and Ali circling and outlanding Louis.
The rounds would start piling up against Louis and I doubt Ali would make the same mistake as Billy Conn and start going toe to toe. Should Louis catch Ali, I'm sure he has the chin to take it and the common sense to keep back and clear his head.

I'll say Ali by UD or late TKO at best.

my thoughts exactly

i want jab to come into this thread as he had a good analysis of why he thought joe takes this

Slimey Limey
07-04-2009, 08:09 AM
Any version of Ali stops him 15 out of 10 times. Lets pick a prime vs prime matchup.

Louis is slow on his feet, Ali could dance for over 15 rounds in his prime, which means he also had much better stamina than Louis. His footwork alone would give him a huge advantage and leave poor Joe clueless.

Louis had problems with a great jab. Ali had one of the longest and fastest jabs, as well as the most damaging. He cut up a lot of faces with those snappy jabs. Anyway, he'd stop the confused Louis in his tracks every time with it.

Louis had a lazy low left hand. Combine that with Ali's extremely fast right hands, and it's counters after counters all night long.

He also had a granite chin compared to Louis' glass chin. He took the best punches from 3 top 10 hardest hitters ever: Foreman, Shavers and Frazier. Frazier was the only one to knock down a rusty Ali in the last round with one of the greatest money shots ever landed. And guess what, Ali got up in 2 seconds.
So if anyone is idiotic enough, which there are, to say Louis would KO Ali, that just proves yet again how overrated Joe Louis truly is.

Out of all the all time greats, Ali would have the easiest time with Louis. Horrific mismatch and styles matchup.
So really, Ali is superior in every single way. A completely superior human being.

Southpaw Stinger
07-04-2009, 08:10 AM
The thoughts of Ali himself and Cus D'amato

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Slimey Limey
07-04-2009, 08:10 AM
my thoughts exactly

i want jab to come into this thread as he had a good analysis of why he thought joe takes this

The only good analysis that Louis bum sniffer can give is when he isn't talking about certain fighters he has an agenda with. No doubt he'll give an extremely unrealistic strawman argument as to how Louis would beat Ali.

The Iron Man
07-04-2009, 09:33 AM
The thoughts of Ali himself and Cus D'amato

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Nice video, thanks for sharing. Personally i think Ali would take this fight, with his lateral movement and his quick feet he would be able to stop Louis getting set and throwing those big bombs. One thing is for sure, Ali couldn't use the rope a dope tactic in this fight.
I wouldn't rule Louis totally out, i generally give any top 10 heavy a chance against the other, if he is able to cut off the ring and use his jab effectively and upset Ali's rhythm there is a chance he could land with his big shots.

More times that not i would go for an Ali UD

mickey malone
07-04-2009, 12:56 PM
This is the most talked about non entity in sporting history..
I really hate answering this question cos it's only a hairs breath that seperates them..

I think it's Ali Frazier in reverse..

If they had 3 fights, this is how I'd see it..

1. Ali UD
2. Louis TKO 14
3. Louis SD

REASONS: No doubt if in the same era, they'd have fought more than once..
I'm a great admirer of both (1&2 ATG) so I've evaluated my conclusions mostly on who they both fought TWICE, and who had the better resume in the return.. Louis wins this hands down..

Ali (2 defeats)

Norton (never really improved against him)
Bugner (same)
Cooper (still no improvement)
Spinks (slight improvement)
Frazier (so close the rubber decided it)

Louis (all wins)

Abe Simon (fight 1 = KO 13 fight 2 = KO 6)
Buddy Baer (fight 1 = KO 7 fight 2 = KO 1
Walcott (fight 1 = DC 15 fight 2 = KO 11)

I know that this doesn't settle the argument, & I don't think anything ever will.. But this is my yard stick for this particular thread.. See you shortly, Slime..

them_apples
07-04-2009, 01:14 PM
Ali would knock him out everyday of the week, horrible style matchup. In a big fight like this Ali would bring his A game and Louis landing anything is even debatable. He was to slow of foot and his reach wasn't long enough to reach Ali from afar.

Ali by KO, with the right hand, Louis would get up a few times though because he had great heart and was well conditioned.

them_apples
07-04-2009, 01:17 PM
This is the most talked about non entity in sporting history..
I really hate answering this question cos it's only a hairs breath that seperates them..

I think it's Ali Frazier in reverse..

If they had 3 fights, this is how I'd see it..

1. Ali UD
2. Louis TKO 14
3. Louis SD

REASONS: No doubt if in the same era, they'd have fought more than once..
I'm a great admirer of both (1&2 ATG) so I've evaluated my conclusions mostly on who they both fought TWICE, and who had the better resume in the return.. Louis wins this hands down..

Ali (2 defeats)

Norton (never really improved against him)
Bugner (same)
Cooper (still no improvement)
Spinks (slight improvement)
Frazier (so close the rubber decided it)

Louis (all wins)

Abe Simon (fight 1 = KO 13 fight 2 = KO 6)
Buddy Baer (fight 1 = KO 7 fight 2 = KO 1
Walcott (fight 1 = DC 15 fight 2 = KO 11)

I know that this doesn't settle the argument, & I don't think anything ever will.. But this is my yard stick for this particular thread.. See you shortly, Slime..


yea but look at the competition difference..Abe Simon? that guy was a comedic giant that you might see in Robin Hood. Walcott beat him (Louis), anyone with an ounce of knowledge knows this.

I'm not saying Louis is bad, check out my ATG list, but in this matchup he's not going to win.

mickey malone
07-04-2009, 02:15 PM
yea but look at the competition difference..Abe Simon? that guy was a comedic giant that you might see in Robin Hood. Walcott beat him, anyone with an ounce of knowledge knows this.

I'm not saying Louis is bad, check out my ATG list, but in this matchup he's not going to win.
1 Louis
2 Ali
3 Holmes
4 Lewis
5 Tyson
6 Holyfield
7 Foreman
8 Frazier
9 Marciano
10 Tunney

As you can see, we're not a million miles away in our train of thought..
There really isn't a lot in it.. We could go on all night about Louis's left hook, Ali's speed of foot, Louis's suspect chin, Ali's lack of power... But I'm not gonna go there.. These 2 were the best of the lot, but Louis was like creeping death in the way that he cut off a ring.. He probably patented the saying, ' You can run, but you can't hide'
With regard to level of opposition... Cooper, Bugner & Spinks were hardly world beaters.. I'd say Walcott was a tadge better than all of them in fact.. Couldn't see Norton giving Louis the problems he gave Ali either..
Frazier, on the other hand would give anyone problems.. It would'a been real close between him and Louis to..
Don't think I can be swayed on this.. MM

Slimey Limey
07-04-2009, 07:05 PM
This is the most talked about non entity in sporting history..
I really hate answering this question cos it's only a hairs breath that seperates them..

I think it's Ali Frazier in reverse..

If they had 3 fights, this is how I'd see it..

1. Ali UD
2. Louis TKO 14
3. Louis SD

REASONS: No doubt if in the same era, they'd have fought more than once..
I'm a great admirer of both (1&2 ATG) so I've evaluated my conclusions mostly on who they both fought TWICE, and who had the better resume in the return.. Louis wins this hands down..

Ali (2 defeats)

Norton (never really improved against him)
Bugner (same)
Cooper (still no improvement)
Spinks (slight improvement)
Frazier (so close the rubber decided it)

Louis (all wins)

Abe Simon (fight 1 = KO 13 fight 2 = KO 6)
Buddy Baer (fight 1 = KO 7 fight 2 = KO 1
Walcott (fight 1 = DC 15 fight 2 = KO 11)

I know that this doesn't settle the argument, & I don't think anything ever will.. But this is my yard stick for this particular thread.. See you shortly, Slime..

:haha:

THAT is your argument?? I knew it'd be pathetic but this is borderline retarded. What happened to actually describing their advantages in the fight itself instead of doing a little a game that any 10 year old can come up with. I haven't seen a worse argument for a mythical matchup, so atleast you win that. Congratulations mate:cop:

mickey malone
07-04-2009, 07:27 PM
:haha:

THAT is your argument?? I knew it'd be pathetic but this is borderline retarded. What happened to actually describing their advantages in the fight itself instead of doing a little a game that any 10 year old can come up with. I haven't seen a worse argument for a mythical matchup, so atleast you win that. Congratulations mate:cop:
And your very quick to start crying when you get stalked..
If you had the ability to retain the slightest amount of information you would see the bottom paragraph directly above your recent intrusion, where I candidly explain, that it doesn't settle the argument.. However, like the gullible bottom feeder that you are, have fallen for the bait, hook, line & sinker.. In doing this, you have once again, exemplified your worth as a pathetic piece of pond life..

Slimey Limey
07-04-2009, 07:55 PM
And your very quick to start crying when you get stalked..
If you had the ability to retain the slightest amount of information you would see the bottom paragraph directly above your recent intrusion, where I candidly explain, that it doesn't settle the argument.. However, like the gullible bottom feeder that you are, have fallen for the bait, hook, line & sinker.. In doing this, you have once again, exemplified your worth as a pathetic piece of pond life..

Don't get mad sweetheart.
If you are completely incapable of writing a sane knowledgeable argument in a classic Boxing matchup then why even bother? You're just making yourself look like an idiot in the process. Comparing their losses and rematches is the most laughable and irrelevant thing you could possibly do in deciding who would win. That right there just proves you're not worth anybody's time. Atleast some of these Louis fanboys know some stuff.
Stick to mma lad.

mickey malone
07-04-2009, 08:23 PM
Don't get mad sweetheart.
If you are completely incapable of writing a sane knowledgeable argument in a classic Boxing matchup then why even bother? You're just making yourself look like an idiot in the process. Comparing their losses and rematches is the most laughable and irrelevant thing you could possibly do in deciding who would win. That right there just proves you're not worth anybody's time. Atleast some of these Louis fanboys know some stuff.
Stick to mma lad.
As in mugging mindless arseholes? No problem..

Ziggy Stardust
07-04-2009, 09:29 PM
Remember this?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195982

It's the same guy. A certified troll.


Ah yes! Good old Rafael Benitez who claimed he was a boxing trainer and then later JulioCesa(r)Chavez. What a hypocrite seein as how under Rafael Benitez he was squawking about what a worthles bum-beater Marciano was:


Marciano was overrated. If he fought Liston isntead of being a chicken he would have bean beaten to a pulp. He struggled against slow old men like Walcott and a washed up Charles. I reckon most top heavies from each era would have wiped the floor with him. Do u really think he could stand in there with Big Klitchko, Lewis, Holyfied or even Samuel Peter?LOL. Way too easy to hit. He was lucky that Italians loved boxing at the time, it was number one in sports and he had no competition.

Only idiots who have no fight dvd's (i have 1000+ 500vhs) and haven't seen much would rate 'the rock'. The best of his era were old men, and even then he was getting outboxed by the painfully slow Jersey Joe Walcott (equivalent to a journeyman like glen johnson)just by looking at footage one can see he wouldn't stand a chance aginst a Prime Roy Jones, the old Hopkins or even our Clinton Woods! Never mind any genuine heavyweight. He didn't lose coz he didn't fight anybody. Look at all the best, they lost coz they fought the best. He knew he had to retire early or get ko'd by the up and coming fighters! Smart guy but still rubbish.

I've seen every major boxing match that took place in the past 100 years and every Marciano title fight. Walcott was an old slow man and even then he had to hit the man when he was down because he was being outboxed. Marciano is overrated because he was the white hope in a segragated America where they believed they were evolutionarily superior. Marciano never beat anybody decent in their prime and was lucky he was in a dead era. The truth is he was overrated and would lose to many of todays light heavyweights including Calzaghe Hopkins and maybe even Tarver. People who know boxing know he is not a top ten heavyweight. Don't get upset, it is the truth.

LOL some Marciano advocates believe Joe Louis was not totally over the hill when Marciano fought him!!! He was pulled out of retirment and looked more washed up than the shores of Blackpool. Just because Rocky was crap and made a meal out of him and the other old men he fought doesn't mean they were not washed up. Also he did not fight everyone around at his time and retired early to avoid the likes of Sonny liston, Cleveland Williams etc. Even so, it may not be his fault but still exposed his weaknesses. He struggled with Walcott who was average, slow and ever so OLD. It took a dirty shot and there was never to be a rematch in segregated america that needed their hero so bad. He was so easy to hit it was a joke. Completely outboxed for many rouns. Marciano would lose to David Haye in about 2 rounds.

I think he is not even in the top 20 in the heavyweight division of all time. It pisses me off when people think he was in the top 5 or even the best! ROFL. Why does he always pop up on p4p lists? He was absolutely ****!

I see you did your hours long homework on me. That's sweet.

THIS is coming from the guy who has several TheGreatA accounts, several Manmachine accounts as well as other alts such as Southpaw16. And if you want to deny this, then how are they so similar like you? After all mate, you're just mad that there are more people that agree with me such as the lad you posted here behind his back.

Stick to the thunderdome with that crap.

This thread is to expose Louis' perversities.

If by that you mean you have around 5 alts, then yes you are right mate.

Maybe you should step up your stalking game, so that I won't notice it's your alt that's following me around every time. For Gods sake is it that hard not to talk like a robot?


Well well, doesn't that make him just look "special"? Can we say "busted"? Nice job GreatA!

Poet

RightCross94
07-04-2009, 09:34 PM
i decided it would be more interesting to make these threads and let the slimey one post in them so he can embarrass himself, rather than putting him on ignore

fight_professor
07-04-2009, 10:37 PM
This is jazz. Anyone who has actually seen Louis fight has to feel Ali would whoop him, and do it easly. Louis was a great fighter, beautiful technique and power, but how slow? How limited were his feet?

Ali would just dance and pop, dance and pop. And Ali is bigger then him I believe, he'd break him down behind a jab Louis couldnt see, couldnt stop. It'd be like the 1st Liston fight in that Ali would just hit and move, and the difference in hand speed is criminal, Ali could very resonably get off 4-5 shots in one burst.

Ali cruises to a win here. Joe Louis also had a questionable chin, something no one can level at Ali. A few HW would beat JL head to head, including Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Bowe.

Ziggy Stardust
07-04-2009, 10:45 PM
This is jazz. Anyone who has actually seen Louis fight has to feel Ali would whoop him, and do it easly. Louis was a great fighter, beautiful technique and power, but how slow? How limited were his feet?

Ali would just dance and pop, dance and pop. And Ali is bigger then him I believe, he'd break him down behind a jab Louis couldnt see, couldnt stop. It'd be like the 1st Liston fight in that Ali would just hit and move, and the difference in hand speed is criminal, Ali could very resonably get off 4-5 shots in one burst.

Ali cruises to a win here. Joe Louis also had a questionable chin, something no one can level at Ali. A few HW would beat JL head to head, including Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Bowe.

While there is a clear difference in foot speed, few Heavyweights had faster hands than Louis so Ali doesn't really have as much advantage there as he did over most of his opponents.

Poet

fight_professor
07-04-2009, 10:58 PM
I accept JL had decent hands, but (1) Ali's hands were faster (so were Tysons), and (B) hand speed only matters if you can hit something, with JL's concrete feet plodding around, he'd never be in a position to land. Ali wins this easily.

I love JL, but h-2-h, he has nothing on Ali which is not easily negated.


He'd have more power, but his chin is worse, his speed is worse, his style lends itself to Ali's fluid approach, and he's smaller-so cant stay on the outside as it were.

P4P atg list debate is legitimate, direct fight is a lock for Ali.

mickey malone
07-05-2009, 05:59 AM
i decided it would be more interesting to make these threads and let the slimey one post in them so he can embarrass himself, rather than putting him on ignore
Agreed... He's pure entertainment!... I don't even bother trying to be constructive with him anymore.. There's no point.. He only has 3 functions.. Hating on Robbinson/Louis or nuthuggin Marciano.. The guy is 'special needs' & has probably never done a days work in his life.. I'd imagine he gets all the 'hand outs' & is a regular at the Shrinks.. I'm more than happy to assist in keeping him there...

JAB5239
07-05-2009, 07:53 AM
my thoughts exactly

i want jab to come into this thread as he had a good analysis of why he thought joe takes this

This is no "gimme" for Louis, and I can envision plenty of scenerios with Ali winning too. But Ali wasn't invincible and had plenty of flaws himself. If a trainer as widely respected as Eddie Futch could see Louis winning, he's got to have a shot. Futch did after all train two men who beat Ali, and neither were as good as Louis. Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

RightCross94
07-05-2009, 09:16 AM
This is no "gimme" for Louis, and I can envision plenty of scenerios with Ali winning too. But Ali wasn't invincible and had plenty of flaws himself. If a trainer as widely respected as Eddie Futch could see Louis winning, he's got to have a shot. Futch did after all train two men who beat Ali, and neither were as good as Louis. Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

the article is a very good one and actually highlights ali's flaws quite well. It is definitely the best argument i have seen about why joe wins

in fact if joe did stalk ali, use his jab effectively, and look to feint to create openings on ali, he may well win the fight

the feint particuarly would give ali trouble, i do lots of sparring with a guy who is similar to ali in that he leans back from shots in an unorthodox way, feinting on these guys can cause them to lean back and put themselves in vulnerable positions, then, if you are fast enough with your hands (as joe was) you can quickly move in and attack with great results

so yes, in my opinion this fight would be a whole lot closer now, if joe employed a patient strategy with a constant jab and plenty of feints he may well set ali up

Slimey Limey
07-05-2009, 10:09 AM
This is jazz. Anyone who has actually seen Louis fight has to feel Ali would whoop him, and do it easly. Louis was a great fighter, beautiful technique and power, but how slow? How limited were his feet?

Ali would just dance and pop, dance and pop. And Ali is bigger then him I believe, he'd break him down behind a jab Louis couldnt see, couldnt stop. It'd be like the 1st Liston fight in that Ali would just hit and move, and the difference in hand speed is criminal, Ali could very resonably get off 4-5 shots in one burst.

Ali cruises to a win here. Joe Louis also had a questionable chin, something no one can level at Ali. A few HW would beat JL head to head, including Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Bowe.

Any SENSIBLE boxing fan with no Louis bias would see it this way, but they have an imaginary version of Louis in their mind who was invincible, flawless, and the greatest specimen ever lived. You could slap the truth in their face and they still wouldn't listen.

Miburo
07-05-2009, 10:21 AM
Louis was too immobile, Ali would box circles around him to a points win.

Ziggy Stardust
07-05-2009, 11:42 AM
Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

I've had that article for a couple months now: I converted it to PDF form and have it in my text files.

Poet

GJC
07-05-2009, 12:43 PM
This is no "gimme" for Louis, and I can envision plenty of scenerios with Ali winning too. But Ali wasn't invincible and had plenty of flaws himself. If a trainer as widely respected as Eddie Futch could see Louis winning, he's got to have a shot. Futch did after all train two men who beat Ali, and neither were as good as Louis. Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html
Very interesting article and thankyou for posting it.
Couple of points I noted, the feint point is a very good one.
Ali was very unothodox I may have the advantage on some in that I was an adult when Ali started. Myself along with others used to say keeps his hands too low and leans away instead of blocking etc.
That said Liston had a great jab good a cutting off the ring in fact pretty much most of the attributes that Louis would bring to the fight and Ali/Clay handled him with ease.
It may be that Ali's unorthodox style would be what Louis finds difficult to handle. Louis was a classical boxer if I was to train a fighter Louis would be one of the few fighters I would show him, I certainly wouldn't show him Ali.
Ali post ban relying on rope a dope Louis got big chances, Ali pre ban I can't see it personally.
Prime against prime Ali 6 to 6.5 fights out of 10 IMO.

fight_professor
07-05-2009, 12:50 PM
Ali post ban would beat an older Louis I feel. Still much quicker and would stay outside.

Primes, its a murder. Ali handed jabs and power with ease. He himself is the greatest jabber in HW history, add to that his speed and tenacity, heart and (underrated) power which was good-he doesnt lose this.

He'd win 8-9/10 times.

Ziggy Stardust
07-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Ali post ban would beat an older Louis I feel. Still much quicker and would stay outside.

Primes, its a murder. Ali handed jabs and power with ease. He himself is the greatest jabber in HW history, add to that his speed and tenacity, heart and (underrated) power which was good-he doesnt lose this.

He'd win 8-9/10 times.

While Ali did indeed have a great jab, boxing experts generally consider the jabs of Holmes, Liston, and Louis to be superior.

That being said, I happen to favor Ali in a head to head matchup although I think it's close. Ali's edge in foot speed being the difference in my mind. I tend to think GJC's assesment of 6 out of 10 in Ali's favor as being dead on.

Poet

TredKiller
07-05-2009, 06:34 PM
billy conn out boxed louis, ali could, but ali would be bigger and have a better chin then conn

ali wins

hookoutofhell
07-05-2009, 07:11 PM
joe never did too well against elusive and slick fighters and at HW ali was about elusive and slick as they got.

he'd dance his way to a UD

JAB5239
07-06-2009, 06:46 AM
billy conn out boxed louis, ali could, but ali would be bigger and have a better chin then conn

ali wins

Ali could very well beat Louis. But lets put some things to rest here. First...Conn was SLIGHTLY ahead of Louis on 2 cards and even on the other. That may be winning, but its hardly the massacre people like to use as an example. Second...Conn lost that night as well as in the rematch. Third...Ali had many flaws that Joe could capitalize on himself. Whoever wins, this fight would not be a walkover. And last...Ali was troubled by Jones, lost to Frazier, and many believe lost all 3 to Norton. None of those guys were as good as Louis. Peace.

mickey malone
07-06-2009, 07:32 AM
Ali could very well beat Louis. But lets put some things to rest here. First...Conn was SLIGHTLY ahead of Louis on 2 cards and even on the other. That may be winning, but its hardly the massacre people like to use as an example. Second...Conn lost that night as well as in the rematch. Third...Ali had many flaws that Joe could capitalize on himself. Whoever wins, this fight would not be a walkover. And last...Ali was troubled by Jones, lost to Frazier, and many believe lost all 3 to Norton. None of those guys were as good as Louis. Peace.
MASSIVE! Very well put 'old boy' 100% RIGHT...

fight_professor
07-06-2009, 09:01 AM
Many believe isnt a recorded outcome. He won 2/3 against Norton. Ok they were close, but to quote an earlier post "he won that night".

Squabbles94806
07-06-2009, 10:42 AM
Well considering they were from two different era, their styles are completely different. ALI was loose and elusive using the jab, whereas Louis would stalk his prey, use a jab for range and unload that big right.

I think i'd have to give it to ALI on points, if he doesn't get knocked down. If ALI got knocked down, then there's a great chance Louis would win on points.

Joe Louis would have to catch big shots and knock ALI down at least twice to get a UD. Other than that, ALI would win with his jab.

Louis and Liston would be a good match up.

Slimey Limey
07-06-2009, 11:35 AM
Ali could very well beat Louis. But lets put some things to rest here. First...Conn was SLIGHTLY ahead of Louis on 2 cards and even on the other. That may be winning, but its hardly the massacre people like to use as an example. Second...Conn lost that night as well as in the rematch. Third...Ali had many flaws that Joe could capitalize on himself. Whoever wins, this fight would not be a walkover. And last...Ali was troubled by Jones, lost to Frazier, and many believe lost all 3 to Norton. None of those guys were as good as Louis. Peace.

Conn DOMINATED Louis, because the fact that he was ahead against a champion of Louis' hype, in a time where you needed to destroy the champion to win, it speaks volumes.
Conn onyly lost because he was so much smaller and made a mistake.

Third, Ali had no flaws that Louis could capitalize on, he aint no Frazier or Norton.
JONES? Oh you're NOT desperate at all bringing up a fight when Ali was just a kid.
Only retarded haters think he lost 3 fights against Norton. He won 2 for sure, and if you think Norton was robbed you must admit Walcott was robbed against Bumbeater as well.

And reword that. Both Frazier and Norton were BETTER than Louis. Period.

mickey malone
07-06-2009, 03:01 PM
Conn DOMINATED Louis, because the fact that he was ahead against a champion of Louis' hype, in a time where you needed to destroy the champion to win, it speaks volumes.
Conn onyly lost because he was so much smaller and made a mistake.

Third, Ali had no flaws that Louis could capitalize on, he aint no Frazier or Norton.
JONES? Oh you're NOT desperate at all bringing up a fight when Ali was just a kid.
Only retarded haters think he lost 3 fights against Norton. He won 2 for sure, and if you think Norton was robbed you must admit Walcott was robbed against Bumbeater as well.

And reword that. Both Frazier and Norton were BETTER than Louis. Period.
Oh really.. There's an argument for Frazier, Ali and even Marciano, but are you now REALLY saying that Norton beats Louis aswell??