View Full Version : Rankings tourny - top 64: Heavyeight


JAB5239
07-01-2009, 12:36 AM
Using boxrecs top 64 heavyweights all time I've formed tournament. Agree or disagree?


1. ali vs 64. Jack Renault Ali UD
2. Joe Louis vs 63. Ron Lyle Louis by Tko
3. Jack Johnson vs 62. Bob Pasture Johnson UD
4. Floyd Patterson vs 61. Bob Satterfield Patterson by Tko
5. Harry Wills vs 60. Fireman Jim Flynn Wills by Tko.

6. Ezzard Charles vs 59. Lee Q. Murray Charles by UD
7. Larry Holmes vs 58. Tony Galento Holmes Tko
8. Sam Langford vs 57 Oscar Bonavena Langford UD
9. Joe Frazier vs 56. Gunboat Smith Frazier by Ko
10. Marciano vs 55. Frank Bruno Marciano UD
11. Sonny Liston vs 54. Elmer Ray Liston by ko
12. Lennox Lewis vs 53. Jimmy Young Lewis by MD
13. Mike Tyson vs 52. Harold Carter Tyson by ko
14.Max Schmeling vs 51. Fred Fulton Schmeling UD
15. Marvin Hart vs 50. Tim Witherspoon Witherspoon by Tko
16. Jimmy Bivins vs 49.Joe Bugner Bivins UD

Ok, here is half of the first round and my predicted outcome. Second half to come later.

Clegg
07-01-2009, 01:04 AM
Interesting thread. The one in particular that I have a viewpoint on is Bruno-Marciano, where my prediction differs from yours.

I don't think a decision win for Marciano is likely. I guess my main reason for not expecting it to go the distance is that Frank did have stamina problems, and faded late even in what I consider to be his best performance (vs McCall, the only time he ever went the full 12 rounds). His punch resistance was not great either.

I can see Bruno out boxing Marciano early on before getting caught with something that turns things around (similar to his fight with Lennox Lewis) leading to a KO for Rocky.

I think that Bruno had good skills. He was technically solid and at his best he worked his jab very well. I think that if Marciano went for the KO early, there's a good chance that Bruno would land something that might make Rocky decide to take a less risky approach.

I think Marciano would be kept on the outside, but would patiently bide his time, and take his opportunity when he saw something he could exploit. Sadly, Bruno did not react well when caught flush, and the first time that he got hurt would probably be the last, as Marciano was not the type to let someone off the hook.

Just my opinion of course, and as a Bruno fan maybe I'm overrating his skills, but that's the way I see the fight going.

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 01:28 AM
17. George Foreman vs 48. Arturo Godoy Foreman by ko
18. Jack Sharkey vs 47. Tom Sharkey 47 Tom Sharkey by SD

19. Jim Jeffries vs 46. Jim Braddock Jeffries by ko
20. Sam McVey vs 45. Charlie Wienhart McVey by UD

21. Ingamar Johanson vs 44. Jimmy Ellis Ellis by UD

22. Joe Jeanette vs 43. Earnie Terrell Terrell by UD

23. Ken Norton vs 42. Bob Baker Norton by tko
24. Jack Dempsey vs 41. George Godfrey Dempsey by ko

25. Max Baer vs 40. Nino Valdes Baer by tko

26. Joe Choynski vs 39. Primo Carnerra Carnera by ko

27. Jersey Joe Walcott vs 38. Gerrie Coetzee Walcott by UD
28. Eddie Machen vs 37. Micheal Dokes Dokes by SD
29. Peter Maher vs 36. Jerry Quarry Quarry by UD

30. Henry Cooper vs 35. Gus Ruhlin Ruhlin by TD

31. Mike Weaver vs 34. Al Kaufman Weaver by UD

32. Tommy Burns vs 33. Zora Folley Folley by UD

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 01:37 AM
Interesting thread. The one in particular that I have a viewpoint on is Bruno-Marciano, where my prediction differs from yours.

I don't think a decision win for Marciano is likely. I guess my main reason for not expecting it to go the distance is that Frank did have stamina problems, and faded late even in what I consider to be his best performance (vs McCall, the only time he ever went the full 12 rounds). His punch resistance was not great either.

I can see Bruno out boxing Marciano early on before getting caught with something that turns things around (similar to his fight with Lennox Lewis) leading to a KO for Rocky.

I think that Bruno had good skills. He was technically solid and at his best he worked his jab very well. I think that if Marciano went for the KO early, there's a good chance that Bruno would land something that might make Rocky decide to take a less risky approach.

I think Marciano would be kept on the outside, but would patiently bide his time, and take his opportunity when he saw something he could exploit. Sadly, Bruno did not react well when caught flush, and the first time that he got hurt would probably be the last, as Marciano was not the type to let someone off the hook.

Just my opinion of course, and as a Bruno fan maybe I'm overrating his skills, but that's the way I see the fight going.

I agree with much of what you've said, but will stand by my pick on this. Like you I think I think Rocky would be kept on the outside most of the tme an be losing most of the fight. The later it goes though the more Rocky starts to press his will. By the end Bruno would be battered and Holding on with only his size and stregth preventing the Ko. Just my opinion of course.

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 02:29 AM
1. Ali vs 33. Folley Ali by ko
2. Louis vs 34. Weaver Louis by ko

3. Johnson vs 35. Ruhlin Johnson by UD

4. Patterson vs 36 Quarry Patterson by UD

5. Wills vs 37. Dokes Wills by UD

6. Charles vs 27. Walcott Charles bt UD

7. Holmes vs 39. Carnera Holmes by Tko

8. Langford vs Baer Langford by ko

9. Frazier vs 24. Dempsey Frazier by tko

10. Marciano vs 23. Norton Marciano by ko

11. Liston vs 43. Terrell Liston by ko

12. Lewis vs 44. Ellis Lewis by tko

13. Tyson vs 20. McVey Tyson by tko

14. Schmeling vs 19. Jeffries Jeffries by ko
50. Witherspoon vs 47. Tom Sharkey Witherspoon by tko

16. Bivins vs 17. Foreman Foreman by ko

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 02:51 AM
1. Ali vs 17. Foreman Ali by ko

2. Louis vs 50. Witherspoon Louis by UD

3. Johnson vs 19. Jeffries Johnson by UD

4. Patterson vs 13. Tyson Tyson by ko

5. Wills vs 12. Lewis Lewis by ko

6. Charles vs 11. Liston Liston by ko

7. Holmes vs 10. Marciano Holmes UD

8. Langford vs 9. Frazier Frazier by tko

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 02:56 AM
1. Ali vs 9. Frazier Ali UD

2. Louis vs Holmes Louis by UD

3. Johnson vs 11. Liston Johnson by UD

13. Tyson vs 12. Lewis Lewis by tko

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 02:59 AM
1. Ali vs 12. Lewis Ali by UD

2. Louis vs 3. Johnson Louis by SD

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 03:00 AM
1 Ali vs 2 Louis Louis by tko

Dan...
07-01-2009, 03:13 AM
i think Ali would have outboxed Joe to be honest. I woulda been pulling for Louis but I don't think he would have been able to get to Ali with enough to stop him, especially with how good Ali's chin was.

JAB5239
07-01-2009, 03:43 AM
i think Ali would have outboxed Joe to be honest. I woulda been pulling for Louis but I don't think he would have been able to get to Ali with enough to stop him, especially with how good Ali's chin was.

There are a few schools of thought on this. I subscribe to the one below. If someone picks Ali I would argue just for the sake of arguing, not because I really thought they were wrong.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

Kid McCoy
07-01-2009, 04:09 AM
Interesting thread. The one in particular that I have a viewpoint on is Bruno-Marciano, where my prediction differs from yours.

I don't think a decision win for Marciano is likely. I guess my main reason for not expecting it to go the distance is that Frank did have stamina problems, and faded late even in what I consider to be his best performance (vs McCall, the only time he ever went the full 12 rounds). His punch resistance was not great either.

I can see Bruno out boxing Marciano early on before getting caught with something that turns things around (similar to his fight with Lennox Lewis) leading to a KO for Rocky.

I think that Bruno had good skills. He was technically solid and at his best he worked his jab very well. I think that if Marciano went for the KO early, there's a good chance that Bruno would land something that might make Rocky decide to take a less risky approach.

I think Marciano would be kept on the outside, but would patiently bide his time, and take his opportunity when he saw something he could exploit. Sadly, Bruno did not react well when caught flush, and the first time that he got hurt would probably be the last, as Marciano was not the type to let someone off the hook.

Just my opinion of course, and as a Bruno fan maybe I'm overrating his skills, but that's the way I see the fight going.

I'd say that's a pretty good assessment of Bruno. I think he'd lose to Marciano the same way he lost to Witherspoon, Smith and Lewis - out-boxing his opponent early before tiring and getting caught with a Hail Mary shot. He did have decent boxing skills (I don't recall anyone really out-boxing him) and with his excellent jab, and his size and reach advantages I don't think the Rock could out-box him. But eventually Marciano would catch up to him, especially in a 15 rounder. Bruno's chin wasn't as bad as some say; what hurt him more was he telegraphed it when he was hurt and had no survival instincts.

Btw, other than that Jab, I agree with most of your picks. The only one I can see that I disagree on his Johnson vs Louis. I think Johnson would struggle to handle Louis' combinations, and I'm not convinced his chin could withstand Joe's attack, so Louis by KO. Good topic though.

RightCross94
07-01-2009, 06:56 AM
1 Ali vs 2 Louis Louis by tko

thats an interesting pick there

im not sure i agree, i can see ali maybe hitting the canvas in this one, but not staying down or getting badly hurt.

louis was, for all his good attributes, pretty slow on his feet and i dont think he could have dealt with ali constantly moving around him and picking him off

ali has the reach advantage and the handspeed advantage. when they exchange ali is going to land first 9x out of 10- and thats why joe loses, because he, as a puncher, is going to be looking to trade with ali, and when he does get into a position to trade he will get hit, and then be hitting air as ali bounces away

and when louis does land, granted he may drop or wobble ali but ali's resilience is second to none and i see him recovering and going on to win the fight

mickey malone
07-01-2009, 07:37 AM
Good Post... The main thing is the outcome, which in my opinion is correct..
There was only one prediction (in the first list) I didn't agree with..

I just can't see 5'9" Jimmy Bivins, beating 6'4" Joe Bugner..
Bugner had a 50% KO ratio & almost as many fights as Bivins..
Bivins also lost to a lot of light heavyweights & only had a 28% KO ratio..
Both fought the best in their divisions, but Bugner fought far more genuine heavies, & had far less defeats on his record.. Both had good chins..
In my opinion, this prediction should be the opposite, with Bugner getting the UD..

Slimey Limey
07-02-2009, 07:23 PM
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Sorry but I'll favor Eddie Futch's opinion over yours any day. You simply cant understand boxing strategy because you have never fought. Your opinion has an agenda and is "armchair" best

Oh I see, the old "you never fought!!" argument and then a copy paste job from an expert who had an opinion, which the majority of experts would disagree with.

Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.
And on and on and on.

Yet SUPERMAN LOUIS is gonna beat all of them according to the second biggest Louis nutgrabber Jabbie. Forget styles mismatches, quality of the fighters, this is FLAWLESS INVINCIBLE JOE LOUIS!!!

Slimey Limey
07-02-2009, 07:25 PM
Sorry but I'll favor Eddie Futch's opinion over yours any day. You simply cant understand boxing strategy because you have never fought. Your opinion has an agenda and is "armchair" best.

1. While Ali is the fastest heavyweight ever, Louis was nearly as fast with his hands. Ali’s many tactical mistakes would leave him open to one of Louis lightning-like strikes. His foot-speed and jab would be negated by Louis properly placed right parrying hand. Louis would render ineffective Ali’s primary weapon, his left jab, and drive him to the ropes vis-a-vis Ken Norton.

2. Ali was a master of strategy against slow handed bruisers like Liston, Terrell, Foreman, and Shavers. He had more trouble with men with hand speed who could punch with him like Doug Jones, Norton, and Jimmy Young. Louis was superior in hand speed to any of these men. With the previously outlined strategy, which Blackburn and Joe would be sure to implement, Louis would not be at a strategic disadvantage against Ali.

3. Ali had a great chin, but he was not a diety. Nat Fleischer rated Joe Louis as the greatest finisher in ring history. Consider that Joe Frazier had Ali in serious trouble and he did not have Louis speed of delivery, combination punching ability, nor was he as deadly a finisher. Had it been Joe Louis he would have kayoed Ali in the first Frazier first fight, and also in the third. Liston, Foreman and Shavers were big punchers but slow of hand, and could not carry on a sustained assault for 15 rounds. Louis definitely would not tire and he was a more explosive and sharper puncher in the mold of a young Mike Tyson. Louis had real shock value in his punches. Ali’s chin would have its greatest test not against Frazier or Foreman but against Joe Louis.

4. Ali was never beaten until a 3-year lay-off, but it was still close to his physical prime he was less than 2 months removed from his 29th birthday. Some would say he lost to Doug Jones, and he was nearly kayoed by Cooper so his unbeaten streak is not without tarnish. In comparing Ali when he retired at age 36 after beating Spinks his record was 56-3 with 37 kayos. Louis when he retired as champion at age 35 was 60-1 with 51 kayos. Louis also lost four of his best years due to WW2 just as Ali lost 3 ˝ years in his forced exile. Overall Ali faced the better competition, but Max Schmeling (a first rate counter-puncher), Max Baer (one of the hardest hitters in division history), Arturo Godoy (never knocked off his feet in his first 70 pro fights), and Jersey Joe Walcott (one of the slickest boxer-punchers of all time) are better than anyone that Ali faced during his prime years, with the exception of Sonny Liston. Both Ali and Louis were dominant champions.

Ali had a slight edge in size over Joe. Ali was 6’3” 212 pounds in his prime, and had an 80-inch reach. Louis was 6’1 ˝”, and about 207, his best weight in his rematches against Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. Louis had a 76” reach. Louis height and reach is about the same as Evander Holyfield. Frazier was 205 in the first Ali-Frazier fight, so any physical advantage is void. Joe Louis had the hand speed, the jab, the power, the stamina, the ring smarts and the style to defeat Muhammad Ali. Joe Louis is the one man who would knock Muhammad Ali out!

Oh I see, the old "you never fought!!" argument and then a copy paste job from an expert who had an opinion, which the majority of experts would disagree with.

Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.
And on and on and on.

Yet SUPERMAN LOUIS is gonna beat all of them according to the second biggest Louis nutgrabber Jabbie. Forget styles mismatches, quality of the fighters, this is FLAWLESS INVINCIBLE JOE LOUIS!!!

JAB5239
07-02-2009, 07:57 PM
Oh I see, the old "you never fought!!" argument and then a copy paste job from an expert who had an opinion, which the majority of experts would disagree with.

Eddie Futch is as leading an expert as has ever been on Ali. I'll take the word of a man who actually devised strategies that beat Ali with much lesser fighters than Joe Louis over the half assed opinion of someone who has never fought before and goes to extreme lengths to discredit Louis every chance she gets.

Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.
And on and on and on.

Its amusing how you like to focus on one fighters shortcomings while ignoring those of the fighters he has been matched with. Very telling.

Yet SUPERMAN LOUIS is gonna beat all of them according to the second biggest Louis nutgrabber Jabbie. Forget styles mismatches, quality of the fighters, this is FLAWLESS INVINCIBLE JOE LOUIS!!!

Nope, not flawless nor invincible, but still the greatest heavyweight ever in MY opinion.

JAB5239
07-02-2009, 08:20 PM
[QUOTE=LondonRingRules;5615343]** Interesting idea, but I thought everyone had a gentleman's agreement to disagree on boxrec ratings.

Taking the ratings at face value, I have problems with these results:

2. Joe Louis vs 63. Ron Lyle Louis by Tko
4. Floyd Patterson vs 61. Bob Satterfield Patterson by Tko
7. Larry Holmes vs 58. Tony Galento Holmes Tko
8. Sam Langford vs 57 Oscar Bonavena Langford UD
10. Marciano vs 55. Frank Bruno Marciano UD
12. Lennox Lewis vs 53. Jimmy Young Lewis by MD
16. Jimmy Bivins vs 49.Joe Bugner Bivins UD
18. Jack Sharkey vs 47. Tom Sharkey 47 Tom Sharkey by SD
21. Ingamar Johanson vs 44. Jimmy Ellis Ellis by UD
27. Jersey Joe Walcott vs 38. Gerrie Coetzee Walcott by UD
30. Henry Cooper vs 35. Gus Ruhlin Ruhlin by TD

In general it's quite possible the above could play out, but if I was a major player, I might well take the odds on your underdog in the above. The reasoning:

Lyle an decent boxer and ferocious slugger. If he got Louis down which wasn't hard to do, he's gonna make sure he stays there.

In my opinion Louis' power and pinpoint accuracy seals the deal here. Guys who stood in front of Joe got destroyed.

Satterfield was a much more ferocious puncher than Floyd and a decent boxer. If Rademacher and others can drop Floyd, Floyd will stay down if if Bob gets him.

Its possible, but I still like Floyd.

Same deal with Holmes who lacks firepower to do more than maybe slice Galento up. Out of a crouch with a wreckerball left, Tony could fight and maybe put Holmes away. He ain't goin' the way of the weaker Snipes, Weaver, and Shavers.

I like Holmes to get the stoppage whether by cuts or accumulation.

Bonavena won't be KOed by Langford and will be bigger/stronger and muscling him around like you wouldn't believe. His style would be very judge friendly in Sam's day, so a man who is one of two to ever drop Joe Frazier sure does have a chance to beat Sam as much as I hate to say.

You may have a point here, but Sam did beat better heavies than Ringo.

Rocky never beat a massive heavy of the class of Bruno. Guy was a good boxer who doesn't have to worry about speed and reach of Rocky.

At the same time. did Bruno ever beat anybody who wouldn't bow to his will?

Jimmy Young against Foreman would beat Lewis easier. Lewis won't outbox him and will lose heart trying to make up points late.

100% disagree my friend. The best of Lennox was a much better fighter that young Foreman and with better stamina.

Bugner is too big, strong, and too good to lose to Bivins who was an excellent LH sized fighter.

This seems to be the consensus among those who have brought it up. This I will have to reevaluate.

Ol' Tom a tough ol' bird in his day, but he ain't beatin' prime Jack Sharkey, sorry.

This is a tough fight either way. I am interested in hearing why you would pick jack over Tom

I'd pick Ingo's bingo over Ellis any day. Ingo was the first ever to beat Machen as I recall, and Ellis was never better than Machen on a best to best comparison.

I like Ellis to stay o the outside and pick Ingo apart. Jmo, of course.

LondonRingRules
07-03-2009, 01:15 PM
Using boxrecs top 64 heavyweights all time I've formed tournament. Agree or disagree?


** Interesting idea, but I thought everyone had a gentleman's agreement to disagree on boxrec ratings.

Taking the ratings at face value, I have problems with these results:

2. Joe Louis vs 63. Ron Lyle Louis by Tko
4. Floyd Patterson vs 61. Bob Satterfield Patterson by Tko
7. Larry Holmes vs 58. Tony Galento Holmes Tko
8. Sam Langford vs 57 Oscar Bonavena Langford UD
10. Marciano vs 55. Frank Bruno Marciano UD
12. Lennox Lewis vs 53. Jimmy Young Lewis by MD
16. Jimmy Bivins vs 49.Joe Bugner Bivins UD
18. Jack Sharkey vs 47. Tom Sharkey 47 Tom Sharkey by SD
21. Ingamar Johanson vs 44. Jimmy Ellis Ellis by UD
27. Jersey Joe Walcott vs 38. Gerrie Coetzee Walcott by UD
30. Henry Cooper vs 35. Gus Ruhlin Ruhlin by TD

In general it's quite possible the above could play out, but if I was a major player, I might well take the odds on your underdog in the above. The reasoning:

Lyle an decent boxer and ferocious slugger. If he got Louis down which wasn't hard to do, he's gonna make sure he stays there.

Satterfield was a much more ferocious puncher than Floyd and a decent boxer. If Rademacher and others can drop Floyd, Floyd will stay down if if Bob gets him.

Same deal with Holmes who lacks firepower to do more than maybe slice Galento up. Out of a crouch with a wreckerball left, Tony could fight and maybe put Holmes away. He ain't goin' the way of the weaker Snipes, Weaver, and Shavers.

Bonavena won't be KOed by Langford and will be bigger/stronger and muscling him around like you wouldn't believe. His style would be very judge friendly in Sam's day, so a man who is one of two to ever drop Joe Frazier sure does have a chance to beat Sam as much as I hate to say.
Rocky never beat a massive heavy of the class of Bruno. Guy was a good boxer who doesn't have to worry about speed and reach of Rocky.

Jimmy Young against Foreman would beat Lewis easier. Lewis won't outbox him and will lose heart trying to make up points late.

Bugner is too big, strong, and too good to lose to Bivins who was an excellent LH sized fighter.

Ol' Tom a tough ol' bird in his day, but he ain't beatin' prime Jack Sharkey, sorry.

I'd pick Ingo's bingo over Ellis any day. Ingo was the first ever to beat Machen as I recall, and Ellis was never better than Machen on a best to best comparison.

Coetzee/Walcott could go either way. Gerrie a good boxer puncher and Walcott not enough power to KO Gerrie who is very underrated down to being a South African. I'd favor the younger Gerrie.

Ol' Gus a tough customer, but guaranteed, he'll get KOed if Sir'enry lands his left hook. Maybe Gus can brawl and get a cut stoppage, but not a given.

Slimey Limey
07-03-2009, 01:29 PM
Hahahaha. Still as biased as ever huh Jabbie. You don't even try to hide it anymore/. It was ok untill you kept letting Louis bumbeater winning. Holmes and Ali would box circles around him and KO him. It would be a terrible styles mismatch.

JAB5239
07-03-2009, 02:27 PM
Hahahaha. Still as biased as ever huh Jabbie. You don't even try to hide it anymore/. It was ok untill you kept letting Louis bumbeater winning. Holmes and Ali would box circles around him and KO him. It would be a terrible styles mismatch.

Sorry but I'll favor Eddie Futch's opinion over yours any day. You simply cant understand boxing strategy because you have never fought. Your opinion has an agenda and is "armchair" best.

1. While Ali is the fastest heavyweight ever, Louis was nearly as fast with his hands. Ali’s many tactical mistakes would leave him open to one of Louis lightning-like strikes. His foot-speed and jab would be negated by Louis properly placed right parrying hand. Louis would render ineffective Ali’s primary weapon, his left jab, and drive him to the ropes vis-a-vis Ken Norton.

2. Ali was a master of strategy against slow handed bruisers like Liston, Terrell, Foreman, and Shavers. He had more trouble with men with hand speed who could punch with him like Doug Jones, Norton, and Jimmy Young. Louis was superior in hand speed to any of these men. With the previously outlined strategy, which Blackburn and Joe would be sure to implement, Louis would not be at a strategic disadvantage against Ali.

3. Ali had a great chin, but he was not a diety. Nat Fleischer rated Joe Louis as the greatest finisher in ring history. Consider that Joe Frazier had Ali in serious trouble and he did not have Louis speed of delivery, combination punching ability, nor was he as deadly a finisher. Had it been Joe Louis he would have kayoed Ali in the first Frazier first fight, and also in the third. Liston, Foreman and Shavers were big punchers but slow of hand, and could not carry on a sustained assault for 15 rounds. Louis definitely would not tire and he was a more explosive and sharper puncher in the mold of a young Mike Tyson. Louis had real shock value in his punches. Ali’s chin would have its greatest test not against Frazier or Foreman but against Joe Louis.

4. Ali was never beaten until a 3-year lay-off, but it was still close to his physical prime he was less than 2 months removed from his 29th birthday. Some would say he lost to Doug Jones, and he was nearly kayoed by Cooper so his unbeaten streak is not without tarnish. In comparing Ali when he retired at age 36 after beating Spinks his record was 56-3 with 37 kayos. Louis when he retired as champion at age 35 was 60-1 with 51 kayos. Louis also lost four of his best years due to WW2 just as Ali lost 3 ˝ years in his forced exile. Overall Ali faced the better competition, but Max Schmeling (a first rate counter-puncher), Max Baer (one of the hardest hitters in division history), Arturo Godoy (never knocked off his feet in his first 70 pro fights), and Jersey Joe Walcott (one of the slickest boxer-punchers of all time) are better than anyone that Ali faced during his prime years, with the exception of Sonny Liston. Both Ali and Louis were dominant champions.

Ali had a slight edge in size over Joe. Ali was 6’3” 212 pounds in his prime, and had an 80-inch reach. Louis was 6’1 ˝”, and about 207, his best weight in his rematches against Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. Louis had a 76” reach. Louis height and reach is about the same as Evander Holyfield. Frazier was 205 in the first Ali-Frazier fight, so any physical advantage is void. Joe Louis had the hand speed, the jab, the power, the stamina, the ring smarts and the style to defeat Muhammad Ali. Joe Louis is the one man who would knock Muhammad Ali out!

Slimey Limey
07-03-2009, 06:47 PM
Eddie Futch is as leading an expert as has ever been on Ali. I'll take the word of a man who actually devised strategies that beat Ali with much lesser fighters than Joe Louis over the half assed opinion of someone who has never fought before and goes to extreme lengths to discredit Louis every chance she gets.

Its amusing how you like to focus on one fighters shortcomings while ignoring those of the fighters he has been matched with. Very telling.



Nope, not flawless nor invincible, but still the greatest heavyweight ever in MY opinion.

ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

etc.

Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

winky44
07-03-2009, 08:38 PM
ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

etc.

Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

Yo Slimey Limey have you ever laced on the gloves and ever boxed? Out of interest???

Jim Jeffries
07-04-2009, 12:35 AM
ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

etc.

Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

Most knowledgeable boxing historians have Joe Louis in their top two ATG HW list. Having him at #1 is not a huge stretch.

JAB5239
07-04-2009, 07:30 AM
ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

Yup. And how many of those experts were in the opposing corner and devised strategies that BEAT Ali? Beat Ali with lesser fighters than Joe Louis.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

Obviously you do give a **** or you wouldn't even have responded. A 5 year old could tell you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about....thats how I know you've never fought. Thats how I know you're an idiot. And the overwhelming majority on these boards will agree with me. Gee, I wonder why?

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

And Ali had trouble with the likes of Doug Jones and Henry Cooper. He was a sucker for the left hook. Every scenario you can think of that has Ali winning, I can think of one that has him losing.


Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

I've always said I believe Louis was the best heavy ever. Any idiot can find my list or numerous posts on the subject. Obviously you're a couple of notches below "idiot". Tsk, tsk.

#1Assassin
07-04-2009, 07:55 AM
Yo Slimey Limey have you ever laced on the gloves and ever boxed? Out of interest???

yeah man have u boxed? and with boxed i mean competed. just out of curiosity. the guy is right btw, there are some things in boxing u dont fully understand until u step in the ring yourself.

Slimey Limey
07-04-2009, 08:04 AM
Yup. And how many of those experts were in the opposing corner and devised strategies that BEAT Ali? Beat Ali with lesser fighters than Joe Louis.

Did he train LOUIS in the opposing corner and devised strategies for LOUIS to BEAT Ali? What you're saying means nothing. He's just one of many to overestimate the lad so you do not have any argument here.


Obviously you do give a **** or you wouldn't even have responded. A 5 year old could tell you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about....thats how I know you've never fought. Thats how I know you're an idiot. And the overwhelming majority on these boards will agree with me. Gee, I wonder why?

I was being sarcastic, but now you made me curious since you're running your mouth about how much you are a fighter and how much you've fought. For you info I have fought not that it's any of your business nor do I care if you believe so I'm not gonna try to prove anything to ya. So since you are doing exactly that, why don't you prove to everyone that you are a real fighter who fought many times, since you act as if your arguments hold any more ground with those child ish claims?

Since you can't last in a debate you have to resort to stuff like this. Pathetic.


And Ali had trouble with the likes of Doug Jones and Henry Cooper. He was a sucker for the left hook. Every scenario you can think of that has Ali winning, I can think of one that has him losing.

Doug Jones and Cooper hahaha. So that's how low you have to sink? A young inexperienced Ali who still beat those men.

You do not have any SANE scenario that has Ali losing to bumbeater. You'll only bring silly examples like the one above.


I've always said I believe Louis was the best heavy ever. Any idiot can find my list or numerous posts on the subject. Obviously you're a couple of notches below "idiot". Tsk, tsk.

Cute. I believe you were questioning yourself in a thread about ATG top 10's or Pound for pound fighters. Can't remember exactly, but I do know that after I exposed your Louis bias you gave up on it and went what the hell.

Ziggy Stardust
07-04-2009, 08:39 PM
Remember this?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195982

It's the same guy. A certified troll.


Ah yes! Good old Rafael Benitez who claimed he was a boxing trainer and then later JulioCesa(r)Chavez. What a hypocrite seein as how under Rafael Benitez he was squawking about what a worthles bum-beater Marciano was:


Marciano was overrated. If he fought Liston isntead of being a chicken he would have bean beaten to a pulp. He struggled against slow old men like Walcott and a washed up Charles. I reckon most top heavies from each era would have wiped the floor with him. Do u really think he could stand in there with Big Klitchko, Lewis, Holyfied or even Samuel Peter?LOL. Way too easy to hit. He was lucky that Italians loved boxing at the time, it was number one in sports and he had no competition.

Only idiots who have no fight dvd's (i have 1000+ 500vhs) and haven't seen much would rate 'the rock'. The best of his era were old men, and even then he was getting outboxed by the painfully slow Jersey Joe Walcott (equivalent to a journeyman like glen johnson)just by looking at footage one can see he wouldn't stand a chance aginst a Prime Roy Jones, the old Hopkins or even our Clinton Woods! Never mind any genuine heavyweight. He didn't lose coz he didn't fight anybody. Look at all the best, they lost coz they fought the best. He knew he had to retire early or get ko'd by the up and coming fighters! Smart guy but still rubbish.

I've seen every major boxing match that took place in the past 100 years and every Marciano title fight. Walcott was an old slow man and even then he had to hit the man when he was down because he was being outboxed. Marciano is overrated because he was the white hope in a segragated America where they believed they were evolutionarily superior. Marciano never beat anybody decent in their prime and was lucky he was in a dead era. The truth is he was overrated and would lose to many of todays light heavyweights including Calzaghe Hopkins and maybe even Tarver. People who know boxing know he is not a top ten heavyweight. Don't get upset, it is the truth.

LOL some Marciano advocates believe Joe Louis was not totally over the hill when Marciano fought him!!! He was pulled out of retirment and looked more washed up than the shores of Blackpool. Just because Rocky was crap and made a meal out of him and the other old men he fought doesn't mean they were not washed up. Also he did not fight everyone around at his time and retired early to avoid the likes of Sonny liston, Cleveland Williams etc. Even so, it may not be his fault but still exposed his weaknesses. He struggled with Walcott who was average, slow and ever so OLD. It took a dirty shot and there was never to be a rematch in segregated america that needed their hero so bad. He was so easy to hit it was a joke. Completely outboxed for many rouns. Marciano would lose to David Haye in about 2 rounds.

I think he is not even in the top 20 in the heavyweight division of all time. It pisses me off when people think he was in the top 5 or even the best! ROFL. Why does he always pop up on p4p lists? He was absolutely ****!

I see you did your hours long homework on me. That's sweet.

THIS is coming from the guy who has several TheGreatA accounts, several Manmachine accounts as well as other alts such as Southpaw16. And if you want to deny this, then how are they so similar like you? After all mate, you're just mad that there are more people that agree with me such as the lad you posted here behind his back.

Stick to the thunderdome with that crap.

This thread is to expose Louis' perversities.

If by that you mean you have around 5 alts, then yes you are right mate.

Maybe you should step up your stalking game, so that I won't notice it's your alt that's following me around every time. For Gods sake is it that hard not to talk like a robot?


Well well, doesn't that make him just look "special"? Can we say "busted"? Nice job GreatA!

Poet

The Iron Man
07-07-2009, 01:59 PM
13. Tyson vs 20. McVey Tyson by tko


This is a fight i would love to see! Both very similar fighters in build and both were brilliant punchers! McVey is a one of my a fighter i am very interested in learning more about and if there are any biographies that someone could recommend it would be much appreciated.

Ziggy Stardust
07-07-2009, 07:34 PM
This is a fight i would love to see! Both very similar fighters in build and both were brilliant punchers! McVey is a one of my a fighter i am very interested in learning more about and if there are any biographies that someone could recommend it would be much appreciated.

And here you go!

Mike Tyson vs Sam McVey

Fight info: Yankee Stadium, New York, NY, United States, 2013-07-06, announcer is Michael Buffer, referee is Mills Lane, the bout will be scored by the three judges Silvestre Abainza (Philippines), Angel Tovar (Mexico) and David Harris (United States), ring card girl is Amy Longlegs, this is not a title bout, the bout is scheduled for 15 rounds, three KD rule is not in effect, save by the bell only in last round, referee or
doctor can stop the fight, mandatory 8 count is in effect, fight stopped due to an accidental head butt: Tech. Draw through 50%/Scorecard after 50%, game will check for injuries, game will adjust ratings for weight class, use judges bias is set to 'use bias rating', Scoring System is 10 Point Must.

In the red corner: Mike Tyson - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime -
Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Kevin Rooney - Cut Man: Sam Gasher

In the blue corner: Sam McVey - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime -
Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Eddie Inabagsky - Cut Man: Sam Gasher

Ziggy Stardust
07-07-2009, 07:35 PM
Round 1

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00There's the bell and this contest is underway.0:0
0:12Tyson slides into the corner...0:0
0:16McVey has been watching too much wrestling. He's clinching.0:0
0:25The fighters separate from clinching themselves.0:0
0:38McVey is blocked in his own corner...0:0
0:43Tyson just delivered a wake-up call!!! He hurt McVey with a sharp combination!4:0
0:43What a beautiful combination! McVey might not survive this…4:0
0:52McVey seems to be protecting his body which is leaving his head vulnerable. He doesn't like body shots but I don't know anyone that does.4:0
0:56Mike Tyson is motioning with his gloves for McVey to bring it on, but Tyson is not being overly aggressive himself right now.4:0
01:02McVey tries to double up on the hook to the body and at least one gets through.4:2
01:22Tyson is holding on to McVey. He seems to be taking a breather.4:2
01:34Lane has to break the clinch.4:2
01:38There's a pause in the action as both fighters regroup.4:2
01:54Tyson misses with the left and then fails to connect with the right as well.4:2
02:01McVey throws punches in bunches and that's the way to disrupt your opponent's rhythm.4:4
02:12Tyson backs away and hitches up his trunks.4:4
02:22Tyson lands a devastating hook!8:4
02:22Tyson just delivered some big time hurt with that hook! Even the fans at ringside felt that one!8:4
02:32Both fighters are staying cautious, and keeping out of range.8:4
02:41Lane tries to separate the boxers but Tyson has a vice-like grip on McVey.8:4
02:45Lane separates the two fighters.8:4
02:55McVey just comes up short with that shot.8:4
03:00McVey has Tyson trapped in the upper neutral corner...8:4
03:00The bell sounds ending Round 1.7:4


Round 2

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Round 2 gets underway as the fighters move to the middle of the ring.0:0
0:07Tyson's corner men did their job with quiet efficiency and confidence.0:0
0:08Both fighters are flailing away but Tyson is definitely landing the better punches.3:2
0:18The two fighters clinch, throwing feeble punches as they grab a quick breather. Now they back away from each other.3:2
0:21Sam McVey scores with a nice short hook inside the defense of Tyson.3:4
0:30McVey lands a volley of punches and at least one scored cleanly.3:6
0:46That was a straight right by Tyson!8:6
0:46McVey was staggered by that punch!8:6
0:55McVey throws the jab and it lands cleanly.8:8
01:04Tyson pushes McVey away to give himself a little more space to work with.8:8
01:12The uppercut just landed by McVey is a nice weapon on the inside.8:10
01:22Tyson is covering up to prevent body shots, but he's leaving his chin dangerously unprotected!8:10
01:25McVey misses with the jab but scores with the follow up cross.8:12
01:37Both fighters take a half-step back.8:12
01:47Tyson has his army of supporters in tow tonight, judging by all the noise they're making.8:12
02:01Tyson lands a strong hook!12:12
02:01McVey is trying to reach for the ropes! His legs have turned to jelly!12:12
02:13McVey pins Tyson in the corner!12:12
02:17Sam McVey drives that short hook into Tyson's midsection!12:16
02:17Tyson was stunned by that blow!12:16
02:31Lane yells at the fighters to separate but McVey and Tyson are a tangle of arms.12:16
02:35Lane is shouting at McVey to break!12:16
02:52McVey lands a hard hook!12:20
02:52Tyson is suddenly in trouble!12:20
03:00The crowd is literally screaming in approval as the two fighters look for a minutes respite after a sizzling round of action.12:20


Round 3

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Both fighters look ready to go as Round 3 begins.0:0
0:06Tyson got quite a pep talk in his corner; we'll see if Kevin Rooney's instructions work.0:0
0:11Tyson lets his hands go but his punches land on the arms of McVey.0:0
0:18Sam McVey tries to push Tyson back in an attempt to gain room to punch.0:0
0:22Tyson has McVey trapped!0:0
0:26Tyson drops his shoulder as if to throw a right, then quickly rips a quick left hook to the body that makes McVey wince!5:0
0:26McVey looks shaken!5:0
0:35We hadn't expected such a tactical battle tonight, but both fighters are being very cautious in this fight.5:0
0:38Both fighters move to ring center.5:0
0:43Tyson works his way in and leans on McVey.5:0
0:58Tyson lands a solid uppercut!9:0
0:58How is McVey standing after that?9:0
01:12Tyson drops the right hand flush on McVey's chin!13:0
01:12McVey suddenly has a vacant look in his eyes. That's a bad sign.13:0
01:30Tyson lands a smashing cross!17:0
01:30McVey appears to have been staggered by that punch…17:0
01:46Tyson's corner is urging him on. They're really vocal tonight.17:0
01:53McVey has Tyson pinned!17:0
01:57Watch McVey move. He is darting in and out, in and out, keeping Tyson off balance.17:0
02:05McVey moves into the lower corner.17:0
02:10Tyson lands a hard uppercut!21:0
02:10McVey is trying to regroup after that punch...21:0
02:19The fighters have worked their way back to the center of the ring.21:0
02:23That's a pretty long clinch! Do these guys want to hug or fight?21:0
02:28Referee Lane separates the two...21:0
02:39Tyson misses with the left and then fails to connect with the right as well.21:0
02:42McVey scores with a nice two-punch combination.21:2
02:55Tyson lands a smashing combination!26:2
02:55McVey is trying to regroup after those punches…26:2
03:00And that ends Round number 3.27:3


Round 4

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Tyson looks to be in fair shape as Round 4 gets underway.0:0
0:06McVey gets in close and comes straight up to the chin of Tyson with an uppercut.0:2
0:11Both fighters show virtually nothing in the way of damage.0:2
0:15It's a knowledgeable crowd tonight. They are letting the fighters know they want to see some action and when it slows down they are quick with their show of displeasure.0:2
0:17Tyson retreats into the near corner.0:2
0:22McVey wings a big left hand at Tyson but the latter sidesteps the punch.0:2
0:29Quick hands and feet can take you far in this game. Of course, having a good chin helps!0:2
0:43Tyson appears to be trying to load up on his punches.0:2
0:50McVey is gliding around the ring like it's his own personal dance floor.0:2
0:58McVey leaps at Tyson and lands a cross that made Tyson's legs buckle ever so slightly. Now McVey misses with a winging shot!0:5
01:13McVey bangs the uppercut home.0:7
01:21Both fighters are keeping their distance for the moment.0:7
01:25Tyson drills McVey with a left and right and another left.2:7
01:35Both fighters sneak a breather as they clinch. Now they move apart.2:7
01:48Sam McVey goes to the head and the body, though neither punch had much on it.2:9
01:57The fighters are jockeying for position as both men try to gain the advantage here in the 4th.2:9
02:00Tyson backs into the lower right corner.2:9
02:00Both fighters are being effective in this exchange of punches.4:11
02:10The crowd is reacting to every punch thrown by these guys, whether it lands or not.4:11
02:17Tyson lands a devastating combination!8:11
02:17McVey was shaken by those blows!8:11
02:26McVey lands to the chest and neck of Tyson.8:13
02:35McVey feels his back touch the ropes and immediately moves away. He doesn't want to get trapped there.8:13
02:40McVey throws a leaping shot that fails to hit the target.8:13
03:00McVey grabs and holds Tyson...8:13
03:00Lane pries them apart.8:13
03:00Round 4 finishes with the sound of the bell.8:14

Ziggy Stardust
07-07-2009, 07:36 PM
Round 5

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Round 5 begins as the bell sounds.0:0
0:09McVey lets his hands go and lands some solid punches.0:2
0:13Both fighters are unmarked at this stage of the fight.0:2
0:17The two fighters lean on one another, neither willing to do any work for the moment. The referee pushes them apart and tells them to get on with the action.0:2
0:25Tyson misses badly. It looked like he changed his mind half way through the punch.0:2
0:27McVey gets his head on the chest of Tyson. He tries to outmuscle him on the inside. McVey scores with a nice short hook to the head.0:4
0:41Tyson continues to follow McVey about the ring.0:4
0:51Tyson dips as if to launch a body shot, then goes upstairs with a quick hook to the head that puts McVey back on his heels!5:4
0:51McVey was stopped in his tracks by that shot…5:4
01:00Tyson digs a short hook to ribs of McVey.7:4
01:00Tyson has hurt McVey. Now let's see what kind of finisher Tyson is.7:4
01:18* Tyson lands a violent shot under McVey's ribcage and McVey instantly drops down on both knees.7:4
01:21Lane stands over McVey and begins counting...14:4
01:211...14:4
01:222...14:4
01:233...14:4
01:244...14:4
01:255...14:4
01:266...14:4
01:26* McVey is back on his feet! He now has to take the mandatory
8.14:4
01:277...14:4
01:288...14:4
01:28Lane waves the two fighters together.14:4
01:28McVey is hurt. He looks like he's ready to go. Tyson just needs to take his time and land one more big shot.14:4
01:41Mike Tyson just landed a three punch combo!18:4
01:41McVey appears shaken by those punches!18:4
01:54Tyson is still trying to find the range with his punches. He's just missing with some of his shots.18:4
02:05Tyson fires and misses.18:4
02:16Oh!!! Mike Tyson unleashed a crippling right hand to the head!22:4
02:16Mercy! Tyson just landed a crushing cross! It was absolutely obscene! McVey is trying to hang on…22:4
02:29Tyson misses wildly with the hook.22:4
02:41Tyson is jockeying for position as he tries to force McVey back into the corner.22:4
02:45Tyson traps McVey in the corner!22:4
02:50Mike Tyson misses with an uppercut from way outside. That's a dangerous punch to throw. You leave yourself wide open for a counter.22:4
02:56Tyson scores with a hook to the body but he misses when he tries to double up with it.24:4
03:00The round's over and the crowd hasn't stopped screaming since the knockdown occurred.26:4


Round 6

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Tyson didn't sit in the corner between rounds and he comes out quickly to begin Round 6.0:0
0:06McVey has Tyson cornered!0:0
0:11McVey is clinching...0:0
0:26Lane steps in and breaks it up.0:0
0:26No blood, no bruises and no swelling; you wouldn't know that these guys have already fought 6 rounds.0:0
0:35McVey has his arms wrapped around Mike Tyson... Now they separate.0:0
0:40Tyson tries to get free... Here comes Lane to break them up...0:0
0:49McVey is giving Tyson a lot of side-to-side movement.0:0
0:58McVey cuts loose with a combination and the crowd roars, but the truth is none of those punches landed. They were either slipped or blocked, or simply missed the mark.0:0
01:10Lane has to pull the fighters away from each other as McVey locks up Mike Tyson's arms.0:0
01:14McVey shoves Tyson away.0:0
01:19McVey lands a nice jab. He tries to follow it up with a cross but it misses.0:2
01:27Tyson's corner is shouting at him to stay off the ropes.0:2
01:37Sam McVey has Tyson blocked in!0:2
01:37There's a wicked right by McVey. He had some steam on that punch.0:5
01:41The knockdown suffered by McVey should have made that last round Tyson's by a wide margin.0:5
01:46Mike Tyson backs into a neutral corner.0:5
01:50McVey is moving laterally and not straight back, which is exactly what he should be doing.0:5
01:55McVey lands a jolting uppercut that snaps back the head of Mike Tyson.0:8
02:04Tyson moves into a neutral corner.0:8
02:09There's a clinch. Neither fighter seems to want to break.0:8
02:20Lane separates the two...0:8
02:29McVey darts in and out, making himself a tough target.0:8
02:34Tyson slides into a neutral corner...0:8
02:38McVey clinches... Tyson gets an arm free! He should be punching with it!0:8
02:49Lane separates the two...0:8
02:58Lane warns McVey for holding and hitting, although he is doing a lot more holding than hitting.0:8
03:00McVey finally lets go of Tyson.0:8
03:00The fighters continue the action as the bell rings to finish Round 6, forcing Lane to step in.0:8


Round 7

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Tyson looks a bit disgusted as Round 7 gets underway.0:0
0:07Lane is getting too involved in the fight and is becoming more of a factor than a referee is supposed to be.0:0
0:15Tyson ties up McVey...0:0
0:19Mike Tyson pushes McVey away.0:0
0:19Neither fighter shows any wear and tear at this point.0:0
0:23Eddie Inabagsky was really animated in McVey's corner and McVey was nodding in agreement.0:0
0:25McVey slides into his own corner...0:0
0:30Mike Tyson scores with a tremendous left!4:0
0:30Sam McVey is hurt!4:0
0:39McVey is trying to avoid shots to the body. He'd better look out for shots to the head!4:0
0:47Tyson can't find the range with that punch.4:0
0:49McVey scores with a punch that's part uppercut, part hook!4:2
01:06Tyson patiently and methodically advances, steadily cutting down the ring space, giving McVey little room to move.4:2
01:11Sam McVey brushes the ropes and quickly spins away, heading back to ring center.4:2
01:15Sam McVey constant movement can be frustrating to an opponent who's not capable of cutting off the ring on him.4:2
01:20The two men are bumping heads as they wrestle on the inside. Now, Tyson lands a short uppercut to the chin of McVey.6:2
01:29McVey is trying to find his timing. Punches that were finding the mark before are missing now.6:2
01:36A cross lands for McVey. Tyson didn't see that one coming.6:4
01:45Tyson rips a hook to the body.8:4
01:54McVey is trapped in the corner...8:4
01:54Both fighters want to work inside for the moment. Tyson has his head on McVey's chest and blasts home a hook.10:4
02:08Tyson slides along the far ropes.10:4
02:13Tyson scores to both the head and body and then moves away.12:4
02:21The two fighters lean on one another. Their arms are free and they should be throwing punches. Now they separate and the action resumes.12:4
02:34Tyson lands a solid cross!17:4
02:34McVey is staggered…17:4
02:42Sam McVey retreats into a neutral corner.17:4
02:47Mike Tyson muscles his way inside.17:4
02:51Tyson traps McVey in the corner!17:4
02:55Mike Tyson brushes the ropes and forces his way back to ring center.17:4
03:00He fails to connect with that punch. He pushed it out there instead of cutting loose with it.17:4
03:00There's the bell. Tyson wings a parting shot that misses. That was close. Round 7 is history.19:5


Round 8

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00The seconds hurry out of Mike Tyson's corner as the bell sounds for Round 8.0:0
0:12Sam McVey is boxing beautifully, smoothly moving side to side and in and out.0:0
0:12Both of these guys look just like they came out of their dressing rooms - not a mark on them.0:0
0:21Tyson landed a sharp combination that rocked McVey back on his heels!4:0
0:21McVey seems to be back on an even keel after those blows...4:0
0:36The two men are circling one another, looking for an opening.4:0
0:43McVey throws a straight right that glances off the shoulder of Tyson but it's enough to keep him off-balance.4:0
0:57Tyson is clinching. Lane better watch because some fighters aren't above doing some nasty head work when they're in close like this.4:0
01:06Lane moves in to break the clinch.4:0
01:15That right hook by Tyson brings McVey up short!8:0
01:15McVey was stunned by that blow!8:0
01:20McVey is starting to suck wind...8:0
01:33McVey is showing some fancy footwork tonight as he moves around Tyson.8:0
01:38McVey backs into the near right corner.8:0
01:42Tyson is turning this fight into a clinching and holding affair as he continues to wrap his arms around McVey.8:0
01:47* The referee cautions Tyson about leaning on McVey's neck, as he separates the two fighters.8:0
02:01Tyson pins McVey in the corner!8:0
02:06Tyson is like an old steam train going uphill. He just keeps chugging away trying to move inside on McVey.8:0
02:18Tyson misses with that punch.8:0
02:20* Lane is telling McVey to keep his punches up.8:3
02:20* Lane is penalizing Sam McVey for the foul. That could make this a big round for Tyson.8:3
02:29Both fighters are keeping their distance for the moment.8:3
02:36Tyson scores with a winging right! McVey's head turned halfway round with that punch!12:3
02:36McVey was stopped cold by that punch!12:3
02:46Both fighters sneak a breather as they clinch. Now they move apart.12:3
02:53Both boxers are in the middle of the squared circle.12:3
02:53Sam McVey lands the jab but comes up short with a second one right behind it.12:5
03:00Tyson is off target with that punch.12:5
03:00Tyson appears to have a pretty good lead at this point.12:5
03:00And there's the bell ending Round 8.12:6

Ziggy Stardust
07-07-2009, 07:37 PM
Round 9

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00The bell sounds to start Round 9.0:0
0:09Tyson lands the uppercut but there wasn't much on it.2:0
0:13McVey is starting to carry his arms lower...he's tired.2:0
0:22Tyson grabs McVey. Too much of this kind of thing can have a negative affect on the scoring of the fight.2:0
0:33Tyson uses his shoulder to force McVey out of the clinch.2:0
0:37McVey backs into his own corner...2:0
0:42Tyson ties up McVey.2:0
0:46Lane has to separate the two...2:0
0:54McVey lands a hard cross, one of the better punches so far this round.2:3
01:04McVey is trying to move in behind the jab, which lands.2:5
01:21Tyson moves into a neutral corner.2:5
01:21McVey goes to the head and the body, though neither punch had much on it.2:7
01:35Mike Tyson works free! He backs to ring center, with McVey following.2:7
01:45Tyson throws a leaping shot that fails to hit the target.2:7
01:47McVey tries the overhand right. It lands high on the temple of Tyson.2:10
02:01Tyson catches Sam McVey coming in with a sweet uppercut!6:10
02:01That punch may have stunned Sam McVey momentarily.6:10
02:10The fighters are jockeying for position as both men try to gain the advantage here in the 9th.6:10
02:18McVey is either lucky or has radar. Mike Tyson's last punch missed landing by a fraction of an inch!6:10
02:30Tyson tries to muscle inside but McVey clinches him.6:10
02:34Lane has to break them apart.6:10
02:42McVey throws an uppercut from way outside. It lands but he's lucky! That's a dangerous punch to throw unless you're in close.6:12
02:56Tyson leans on the ropes and motions for McVey to come in.6:12
03:00Tyson traps McVey's gloves under his arms, locking them in place.6:12
03:00* The referee is cautioning Tyson about leaning on the neck of his opponent. It's a good tactic if you can get away with it because it tends to tire out the other fighter but Lane isn't going to let it happen.6:12
03:00* Lane has taken a point away from Tyson!6:12
03:00It looks like Tyson has a pretty solid lead at this stage of the fight.6:12
03:00That's another round in the books as Round 9 comes to an end.6:11


Round 10

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Amy 'The Smile' Longlegs exits the ring to wild cheering. We await the bell, signaling the start of Round 10. There it is!0:0
0:17Circling left, Tyson looks for an opening to fire a shot at Sam McVey.0:0
0:17Tyson is breathing heavily...0:0
0:21Whatever Kevin Rooney said to him in the corner between rounds must have had some effect. Tyson is letting his hands go.0:0
0:21McVey sneaks in a quick uppercut that lands cleanly.0:2
0:26Both fighters are carrying their arms low...0:2
0:31The cross scores for McVey. He needs to throw that punch more often.0:4
0:48Tyson moves into a neutral corner.0:4
0:48McVey forces his way inside and he lands a nice uppercut to the chin of Tyson.0:6
01:05Tyson frees himself from McVey's clutches! They move to ring center now.0:6
01:10The fighters are throwing punches but McVey is being much more effective in this battle.2:9
01:24McVey ends up behind Tyson as he deftly avoids a straight ahead attack moving to his right.2:9
01:35McVey bounces off the ropes, challenging Tyson to come get him.2:9
01:44The fighters are tangled up inside. Tyson has a hand free and lands a little uppercut.4:9
02:01There's a straight right by Mike Tyson!9:9
02:01McVey was stopped cold by that blow!9:9
02:18Tyson lands a strong cross!13:9
02:18McVey is hurt!13:9
02:27A flurry of punches are exchanged between the two fighters. It appears as if Sam McVey has gotten the better of the exchange.15:12
02:32It appears as if McVey has the makings of a tiny mouse under his right eye.15:12
02:40Seems like both fighters are landing a lot of punches, but it is tough to tell just how much effect they are having.15:12
02:47McVey lands a crushing uppercut!15:16
02:47Tyson looks like he was hurt by that punch!15:16
02:51There's the beginning of a mouse under the right eye of Tyson.15:16
03:00McVey just comes up short with that shot.15:16
03:00The crowd is standing on its feet. Both fighters shoot their gloves skyward! What a great round of boxing!16:18


Round 11

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Tyson and McVey square off as the bell sounds to start the action for Round 11.0:0
0:06If the swelling was lessened by Tyson's corner, it wasn't reduced enough to make a big difference. It's going to be a factor in this fight if it continues to worsen.0:0
0:11OH! Tyson landed the big hook flush!4:0
0:11McVey was staggered by that punch!4:0
0:20McVey lands a stinging jab.4:2
0:37There's a hard shot off the top of Tyson's head!4:6
0:37Tyson is trying to regain his senses after that punch...4:6
0:42There appears to be an increase in the amount of swelling under Tyson's right eye.4:6
0:49Tyson pushes McVey away to give himself a little more space to work with.4:6
01:00Tyson just comes up short with that shot.4:6
01:06McVey's corner is shouting to their man, encouraging him to pick up the action.4:6
01:14Sam McVey is moving like he is walking on air tonight.4:6
01:21McVey shoots the jab into the chest of Tyson.4:8
01:30McVey gets a jab in but it was more of a push than a punch.4:10
01:40McVey retreats into a neutral corner.4:10
01:44Tyson wings a big left hand at Sam McVey but the latter sidesteps the punch.4:10
01:52The two men continue to measure one another.4:10
02:03McVey pins Tyson's arms! The fighters are tied up...4:10
02:12Tyson pushes Sam McVey away.4:10
02:17Tyson retreats into his own corner...4:10
02:17Sam McVey fires a punch over the jab of Tyson and gets it in for points.4:12
02:26Both fighters ought to be using their jabs more to set up their other punches this round.4:12
02:34Tyson works himself free. Now the fighters move back to ring center.4:12
02:48* Tyson lands a vicious uppercut and down goes Sam McVey!4:12
02:51The count starts...10:12
02:511...10:12
02:522...10:12
02:52* McVey makes it to his feet but his legs look wobbly as the mandatory 8 is tolled.10:12
02:533...10:12
02:544...10:12
02:555...10:12
02:566...10:12
02:577...10:12
02:588...10:12
02:58Lane is allowing the fight to continue. McVey looks real shaken to us, however.10:12
03:00The round's over but the effects of the knockdown on the crowd linger as many of them remain on their feet, shouting their approval of this fight.11:13


Round 12

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00It's Round 12 of this scheduled 15 rounder.0:0
0:07Kevin Rooney seemed to pump up Tyson between rounds.0:0
0:07Mike Tyson's corner is an experienced crew but the swelling he's suffered looks almost as bad as it did before the minute break.0:0
0:14McVey wings a big left hand at Tyson but the latter sidesteps the punch.0:0
0:16Mike Tyson rips off a nice right-left combination to the head.2:0
0:37Tyson throws a punch and lands. McVey scores with a counter. Looks like Tyson was a little more effective.5:2
0:48Both fighters are staying cautious, and keeping out of range.5:2
0:57No one is going to confuse Mike Tyson with a ballerina, but at least he isn't just standing still.5:2
01:01McVey tries to push Tyson back in an attempt to gain room to punch.5:2
01:13Tyson pins McVey's arms. Now they move apart.5:2
01:22Referee Lane steps in to break it up.5:2
01:27The two men are circling one another, looking for an opening.5:2
01:35McVey comes in low. Tyson puts a headlock on him. Lane knocks Tyson's arm off Sam McVey's head.5:2
01:44Lane moves them apart.5:2
01:50McVey lands with a short, quick uppercut in close.5:4
01:54McVey seems to have shaken off the effects of last round's knockdown.5:4
02:05Sam McVey moves into the near corner.5:4
02:05Mike Tyson shoots the jab into the chest of McVey.7:4
02:10McVey's right eye is becoming more swollen and it's going to need controlled in order for Sam McVey to see properly out of it.7:4
02:19The fighters are at ring center...7:4
02:23Considering the clinch Tyson has on McVey it looks like he wants to dance with him, not fight him. McVey pushes him away.7:4
02:28Lane separates them.7:4
02:32Tyson seems really focused on what he's doing this round.7:4
02:41McVey pins Tyson in the corner!7:4
02:45McVey traps Tyson's gloves under his arms. He won't let go until Lane breaks it up.7:4
02:54The Referee breaks it up...7:4
03:00Tyson is just missing by a hair with his punches.7:4
03:00We're at the 3:00 mark and that brings this round to an end.7:3

Ziggy Stardust
07-07-2009, 07:37 PM
Round 13

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00Shouts of encouragement for both fighters can be heard as the bell rings for Round 13.0:0
0:07The swelling on the face of Tyson is noticeable, even at a distance. Although his corner men were applying cold compresses and trying to work the swelling away from his eyes, Tyson still has distension.0:0
0:12Tyson scores with a tremendous left!4:0
0:12That was a beautiful hook! McVey's eyes actually rolled back in his head! It's amazing that he's still standing.4:0
0:17Look for Tyson to start to target McVey's right eye in an attempt to close it because McVey's swelling is worsening rapidly.4:0
0:26Tyson lands a solid jab!8:0
0:26McVey was shaken by that blow!8:0
0:39* Lane is telling Tyson to quit rabbit punching.10:0
0:57McVey shoots the right home. That's a sneaky punch.10:2
01:02That swelling under the right eye of Tyson is definitely getting worse; his corner is going to have to give it priority between rounds.10:2
01:11Tyson doesn't look all that graceful but he moves fairly well in the ring.10:2
01:16McVey has been throwing the uppercut and scoring with it all night as he lands yet another short punch inside.10:4
01:25McVey retreats into a neutral corner.10:4
01:30OH! Tyson landed the big hook flush!14:4
01:30McVey appears to be stunned!14:4
01:34McVey's vision has to be hampered by the ever-increasing swelling under his right eye.14:4
01:48Tyson is challenging McVey to fight him and quit clinching.14:4
01:53Tyson works his way free!14:4
01:58Tyson throws a flurry of punches; at least two solid shots made it through. Now he moves away.16:4
02:15McVey just misses with a huge shot as Tyson chooses the perfect time to suddenly backpedal.16:4
02:17Both fighters are trying to work inside. It's Tyson, though, who manages to score with a solid uppercut that hurt McVey.19:4
02:36There's the uppercut from McVey. That opening has been there all fight for him.19:6
02:45Both fighters are keeping their distance for the moment.19:6
02:53McVey misses with that punch.19:6
03:00Look out! That was a straight right by Tyson!24:6
03:00McVey seems to be regrouping after that blow...24:6
03:00McVey's right eye is turning into an ugly mess as the swelling under it worsens.24:6
03:00It looks like Tyson has a pretty solid lead at this stage of the fight.24:6
03:00The bell sounds ending Round 13. Amy 'The Smile' Longlegs is about ready to climb through the ropes and into the ring to the whistles and cheers of the crowd.26:5


Round 14

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00With only two rounds of boxing left, it appears as if McVey is going to need a knockout or at least a knockdown to win this fight.0:0
0:05The swelling on the face of Tyson is almost as pronounced as it was before his corner worked on it, in spite of their efforts.0:0
0:05McVey's corner didn't ignore the swelling he's suffered so far in this bout; however, even with the attention that they gave it, the puffiness doesn't look lessened much, if at all.0:0
0:10Tyson doesn't connect with the cross.0:0
0:13McVey throws a nice, short uppercut that scores to the jaw of Tyson0:2
0:26McVey is trying to free his gloves from under Tyson's gloves.0:2
0:31Tyson and McVey each take a step back.0:2
0:44McVey clamps Tyson's arms to his side and holds on until Lane breaks the hold.0:2
0:59Now they break clean.0:2
01:03Both fighters could do with varying their punches a little more.0:2
01:11Tyson's punch actually goes behind McVey as the latter moved inside just as Tyson threw a looping shot.0:2
01:18McVey pins Tyson in the corner!0:2
01:23The fighters are tied up. McVey tries to extract himself. He gets his arms free.0:2
01:27Lane breaks them up...0:2
01:40Tyson fires and misses.0:2
01:51McVey pins Tyson in the corner!0:2
01:51McVey gives a nice head feint and then lands a hook to the head of Tyson which made him blink.0:4
02:00McVey scores with a nice right cross.0:6
02:17He lands a hard cross!0:10
02:17Tyson had better reach deep if he's going to continue!0:10
02:21The swelling under Tyson's right eye is a mess and his vision has to be obscured.0:10
02:26Tyson moves into a neutral corner.0:10
02:31McVey just comes up short with that shot.0:10
02:38Tyson moves into the near right corner.0:10
02:43Both fighters are holding here. It's a tangle of arms and Lane is going to have to sort this out.0:10
02:47Referee Lane has to separate the two...0:10
02:52The action is at ring center.0:10
02:56It's a sweet uppercut by Tyson! He snapped McVey's head straight back with that punch!4:10
02:56McVey seems to have been hurt by that punch!4:10
03:00Mike Tyson seems to have done enough to win this fight.4:10
03:00The bell sounds - more boxing to come in a moment.4:9


Round 15

TimeCommentaryPoints
0:00There are 03:00 more minutes of fighting to go in the 15th and final round.0:0
0:08A minute wasn't enough to eliminate or even significantly reduce Tyson's swelling. They'll have to keep a close watch on it and make sure Tyson's vision doesn't become a major problem over the next few rounds.0:0
0:08The swelling on the face of Sam McVey is almost as pronounced as it was before his corner worked on it, in spite of their efforts.0:0
0:13McVey wings a big left hand at Tyson but the latter sidesteps the punch.0:0
0:20Tyson lands a crushing hook!5:0
0:20Sam McVey is suddenly in trouble!5:0
0:35McVey fires a shot, but it glances off Tyson's shoulder.5:0
0:41Tyson just landed a three punch combo!9:0
0:41McVey appears shaken by those punches!9:0
0:46McVey is going to have to either assume a more defensive posture to protect his continually swelling right eye or go on an all-out offensive and try to end the fight before the eye closes completely.9:0
0:57Upstairs and downstairs! McVey lands two quick blows and then moves away from Tyson's counters.9:2
01:16* Mike Tyson lands a thudding shot under McVey's ribcage and McVey crumbles like stale bread. He's down on both knees.9:2
01:19The count begins...18:2
01:191...18:2
01:202...18:2
01:213...18:2
01:224...18:2
01:235...18:2
01:246...18:2
01:257...18:2
01:268...18:2
01:26* McVey lurches to his feet but there's no question that he's hurt.18:2
01:26Lane waves the two fighters together, he is allowing the fight to continue.18:2
01:26Tyson is going to let it all hang out and try to end this fight right here and now!18:2
01:34McVey backs into the upper corner.18:2
01:39Tyson misses with what looked like a backhand. He's lucky. If that had landed, he might have drawn a warning.18:2
01:50Tyson leaves the jab just short.18:2
02:01He scores with the jab.20:2
02:01McVey suddenly looks very vulnerable. Tyson can stop him if he lets it all hang out.20:2
02:15McVey is trapped in Tyson's corner...20:2
02:19That was a straight right by Mike Tyson!24:2
02:19Sam McVey looks shaken!24:2
02:28Tyson shoots the jab into the chest of Sam McVey.26:2
02:28Tyson takes a long look at McVey to see if he's playing possum. Tyson is starting to pour it on so he must believe that he's really hurt McVey.26:2
02:41Tyson tries to double up on the jab but neither hit the mark.26:2
02:56Tyson wings a big left hand at McVey but the latter sidesteps the punch.26:2
03:00Tyson ties up McVey. Why would he want to clinch now?26:2
03:00Tyson finally lets go of McVey.26:2
03:00The bell sounds ending the final round and now the scorecards will determine the outcome of this fight.26:2


Fight Result

Here's Michael Buffer with the call…Ladies and Gentlemen, the judges have tallied their scorecards and here is your decision…

Silvestre Abainza, Philippines scores the bout 143 to 138
Angel Tovar, Mexico scores the bout 143 to 137
David Harris, United States scores the bout 143 to 137

The winner by unanimous decision is Mike Tyson!


Score Cards

Silvestre Abainza Philippines RoundTotal
Mike Tyson 143
Sam McVey 138

Angel Tovar Mexico RoundTotal
Mike Tyson 143
Sam McVey 137

David Harris United States RoundTotal
Mike Tyson 143
Sam McVey 137

RoundTotal
Mike Tyson 429
Sam McVey 412


Statistics

Categories Mike Tyson Sam McVey

Knockdowns scored 3 0

Jabs 63 66
Hooks 79 60
Crosses 62 68
Combinations 60 44
Uppercuts 60 75

Punches Landed 324 313
Punches Missed 465 232
Total Punches 789 545

Punching Accuracy 41.1% 57.4%

The Iron Man
07-07-2009, 09:44 PM
Cheers for that poet was a nice little read!! i would give u some green but it seems i have given you too much over the years!.

Ziggy Stardust
07-07-2009, 10:24 PM
Cheers for that poet was a nice little read!! i would give u some green but it seems i have given you too much over the years!.

Think nothing of it: It was my pleasure! :)

Poet

JAB5239
07-08-2009, 05:40 AM
Cheers for that poet was a nice little read!! i would give u some green but it seems i have given you too much over the years!.

Agreed! Thanks Poet.