View Full Version : Vitali Klitschko vs Muhammad Ali


winky44
06-30-2009, 02:47 PM
Can Vitali's style, and cast iron chin cause Ali trouble?

who takes this fight?

discuss

#1Assassin
06-30-2009, 02:51 PM
dumb question. if u didnt have glen johnson in your sig and nate campbell in your avatar i would red k your ass. ali stops him, eighter on cuts or just out of mercy for vitali who would be completely outmatched from the ifrst bell to the last. i mean seriously who is on vitalis resume to say eh can compete with ali? gomez and sanders are his only good wins, dont quite cut it in my book.

winky44
06-30-2009, 02:55 PM
dumb question. if u didnt have nate campbell in your sig i would red k you. ali stops him, eighter on cuts or just out of mercy for vitali who would be completely outmatched from the ifrst bell to the last. i mean seriously who is on vitalis resume to say eh can compete with ali? gomez and sanders are his only good wins, dont quite cut it in my book.

but ali struggled with lesser fighters than vitali, like doug jones and henry cooper.. vitali hasnt even really been beat properly, was beating chris byrd until his shoulder went and was leading on the scorecards against lewis before he was stopped on cuts.

so the way your making out is if i've said if tye fields vs ali!

bklynboy
06-30-2009, 03:32 PM
but ali struggled with lesser fighters than vitali, like doug jones and henry cooper.. vitali hasnt even really been beat properly, was beating chris byrd until his shoulder went and was leading on the scorecards against lewis before he was stopped on cuts.

so the way your making out is if i've said if tye fields vs ali!

The problem is that we don't how good the Klitshcko brothers are, and we may never know. Ali certainly had problems against lesser fighters for, among other reasons, he wasn't motivated and didn't bring his A game. Now that's stupid, I grant you that, but it is what it is.

The only fight we have that we can begin to tell how either K brother would do against a quality opponent was Vitali's fight against Lewis. And he lost that fight.

I would love to know that the Ks were more than good fighters in a weak age. If Wladimar jabs an aggressive, determined Haye into the ground; and doesn't get flustered when hit; and then beats other up-and-coming fighters who, in the post-K era are considered quality fighters then and only then can we begin to compare either K to Ali.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 03:40 PM
Since I already ran this for Ali Vs. Wlad here is the results for Ali Vs. Vitlali:


Title Bout II

Muhammed Ali 93-5-2 with 62 stoppages
Vitali Klitschko 5-93-2 with 3 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-9-0 with 88 stoppgaes
Vitali Klitschko 9-91-0 with 7 stoppages

bklynboy
06-30-2009, 03:48 PM
Since I already ran this for Ali Vs. Wlad here is the results for Ali Vs. Vitlali:


Title Bout II

Muhammed Ali 93-5-2 with 62 stoppages
Vitali Klitschko 5-93-2 with 3 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-9-0 with 88 stoppgaes
Vitali Klitschko 9-91-0 with 7 stoppages


I know nothing of these programs. Do they have stats on known match-ups? Or do you have to run them to?

Example: Dempsey-Tunney; Ali-Frazier and the like?

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 03:53 PM
I know nothing of these programs. Do they have stats on known match-ups? Or do you have to run them to?

Example: Dempsey-Tunney; Ali-Frazier and the like?

I'd have to run them. No big deal doing it though.

Poet

winky44
06-30-2009, 04:08 PM
Since I already ran this for Ali Vs. Wlad here is the results for Ali Vs. Vitlali:


Title Bout II

Muhammed Ali 93-5-2 with 62 stoppages
Vitali Klitschko 5-93-2 with 3 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-9-0 with 88 stoppgaes
Vitali Klitschko 9-91-0 with 7 stoppages

what are you going on about? explain

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:24 PM
what are you going on about? explain

Another thread:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284921

I ran two computer simulations of Muhammed Ali Vs. Wladimir Klitschko of 100 bouts each. Since you have THIS thread running I also ran it for Ali Vs. Vitali and posted the results.

Poet

winky44
06-30-2009, 04:27 PM
Another thread:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284921

I ran two computer simulations of Muhammed Ali Vs. Wladimir Klitschko of 100 bouts each. Since you have THIS thread running I also ran it for Ali Vs. Vitali and posted the results.

Poet

but i still dont understand it, how does it come up with the results?

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:35 PM
but i still dont understand it, how does it come up with the results?

Okay. The fighters are rated for the various that make up a fighter such as defense, punching accuracy, chin, endurance, hitting power ect. Too many traits to list them all. The programs then simulate on a round by round basis a fight between two historical fighters. Fighters will wear down faster or slower depending on how often they are hit, how often they are missing punches, whether they are subject to sustained body-punching ect. and will perform less well as they wear down. Whether a knockdown occurs depends on a chin Vs. power matchup but flash knockdowns also occur. Cuts and eye swelling are a part of it, as are possible injuries ie. broken hands, jaws ect. Referees can stop the fight for cuts or taking two much punishment. The rounds are scored just as a real life fight is scored and barring a stoppage the scores are tallyed and a decision is given.

Poet

winky44
06-30-2009, 04:38 PM
Okay. The fighters are rated for the various that make up a fighter such as defense, punching accuracy, chin, endurance, hitting power ect. Too many traits to list them all. The programs then simulate on a round by round basis a fight between two historical fighters. Fighters will wear down faster or slower depending on how often they are hit, how often they are missing punches, whether they are subject to sustained body-punching ect. and will perform less well as they wear down. Whether a knockdown occurs depends on a chin Vs. power matchup but flash knockdowns also occur. Cuts and eye swelling are a part of it, as are possible injuries ie. broken hands, jaws ect. Referees can stop the fight for cuts or taking two much punishment. The rounds are scored just as a real life fight is scored and barring a stoppage the scores are tallyed and a decision is given.

Poet

ahh pretty interesting!

so just basically a bit of fun!

could ya do whitaker vs pryor at 140 and mayweather vs leonard at 147?

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:42 PM
ahh pretty interesting!

so just basically a bit of fun!

could ya do whitaker vs pryor at 140 and mayweather vs leonard at 147?

No problem on the matchups: Just take me a few minutes. If you'd like to read up on the programs I uploaded the manuals for them:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0N1OC2YO

nachorjj
06-30-2009, 04:50 PM
Can Vitali's style, and cast iron chin cause Ali trouble?

who takes this fight?

discuss

ali put KO foreman he have a iron chin. ali put KO vitali with out truble

winky44
06-30-2009, 04:52 PM
ali put KO foreman he have a iron chin. ali put KO vitali with out truble

thats make no sense.

winky44
06-30-2009, 04:54 PM
No problem on the matchups: Just take me a few minutes. If you'd like to read up on the programs I uploaded the manuals for them:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0N1OC2YO

:fing02::fing02::fing02:

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 05:06 PM
ahh pretty interesting!

so just basically a bit of fun!

could ya do whitaker vs pryor at 140 and mayweather vs leonard at 147?

Okay, here are the results. Surprising actually since the results between the two programs couldn't be more different.


Title Bout II

Pernell Whitaker 50-46-4 with 18 stoppages
Aaron Pryor 46-50-4 with 26 stoppages


Data Boxing

Pernell Whitaker 34-55-11 with 3 stoppages
Aaron Pryor 55-34-11 with 18 stoppages


Title Bout II

Ray Leonard 92-7-1 with 62 stoppages
Floyd Mayweather Jr. 7-92-1 with 3 stoppages


Data Boxing

Ray Leonard 49-48-3 with 8 stoppages
Floyd Mayweather Jr. 48-49-3 with 13 stoppages

Infern0
06-30-2009, 05:37 PM
Poet can you do this ones?

Lennox Lewis v Mike Tyson

Lennox Lewis Vs Ali

Ali vs Tyson

Ali vs Holyfield?

j
06-30-2009, 05:43 PM
lmao. ali beating vk? ha. f'ing imaginative. how the hell would ali beat a taller, stonger, yet smart fighter - smarter than foreman.

i dont see it even being close. i see either a stoppage of ali or a decision win for vk. and i am talking a 33 or 34 year old vk vs a 33 or 34 year old ali.

too much past distortion here if u ask me.

TheGreatA
06-30-2009, 05:50 PM
lmao. ali beating vk? ha. f'ing imaginative. how the hell would ali beat a taller, stonger, yet smart fighter - smarter than foreman.

i dont see it even being close. i see either a stoppage of ali or a decision win for vk. and i am talking a 33 or 34 year old vk vs a 33 or 34 year old ali.

too much past distortion here if u ask me.

Agreed. I have no idea how anyone could think that Ali has a chance against the invincible Vitali Klitschko.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 05:50 PM
Poet can you do this ones?

Lennox Lewis v Mike Tyson

Lennox Lewis Vs Ali

Ali vs Tyson

Ali vs Holyfield?

No problemo. Just need to write them down lol.

Poet

winky44
06-30-2009, 05:55 PM
Agreed. I have no idea how anyone could think that Ali has a chance against the invincible Vitali Klitschko.

wow alot of people are counting out ali here

TheGreatA
06-30-2009, 06:02 PM
wow alot of people are counting out ali here

Ali never proved himself against great opposition unlike Vitali who holds wins over Lennox Lewis and Chris Byrd, or atleast should since he was up on the scorecards until he lost.

winky44
06-30-2009, 06:04 PM
Ali never proved himself against great opposition unlike Vitali who holds wins over Lennox Lewis and Chris Byrd, or atleast should since he was up on the scorecards until he lost.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 06:11 PM
Poet can you do this ones?

Lennox Lewis v Mike Tyson

Lennox Lewis Vs Ali

Ali vs Tyson

Ali vs Holyfield?

Here are your results:


Title Bout II

Mike Tyson 78-21-1 with 76 stoppages
Lennox Lewis 21-78-1 with 17 stoppages


Data Boxing

Mike Tyson 27-66-7 with 12 stoppages
Lennox Lewis 66-27-7 with 24 stoppages

----------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Ali 79-18-3 with 55 stoppages
Lennox Lewis 18-79-3 with 12 stoppages


Data Boxing

Ali 77-19-4 with 27 stoppages
Lennox Lewis 19-77-4 with 12 stoppages

----------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Ali 79-20-1 with 35 stoppages
Tyson 20-79-1 with 16 stoppages


Data Boxing

Ali 85-15-0 with 53 stoppages
Tyson 15-85-0 with 8 stoppages

----------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Ali 84-12-4 with 34 stoppages
Holyfield 12-84-4 with 8 stoppages


Data Boxing

Ali 91-8-1 with 28 stoppages
Holyfield 8-91-1 with 5 stoppages

Potential
06-30-2009, 06:21 PM
Ali aruably lost to ****in Kenny Norton twice, to say he'd KO Vitali or beat him easily is utterly ridiculous and dont know boxing period.
Who on Ali's resume is as tall or skilled as Vitali or Wlad? Nobody

George Foreman had power but didnt have the boxing skill, Wlad and Vitali have boxing skill and power. Id give both a great shot to beat Ali.

Dynamite Kid
06-30-2009, 06:29 PM
I like Vitali but i feel he would get decisioned here.

You have to role with the facts at the end of the day, Muhammad Ali beat top caliber opposition where as Vitali's best wins dont stack up, plus i think Vitali would play into Muhammad Ali's hands a little bit.

Vitali is best as a counter puncher, he is not as effective when he has to come foward, i feel he would be the one coming foward against Ali because he is the bigger man, if you add Muhammad Ali's lateral movement to the equation you have a big man yes, but a big man who is not comfortable on the front foot and he is having to reset his attacks consistently because of the lateral movement, this is without talking about the speed disparity of hand and foot between the two.


Vitali would do better COMING foward against someone who is not going to run from him, i dont mean that in a disrespectful way but..........

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Ali aruably lost to ****in Kenny Norton twice, to say he'd KO Vitali or beat him easily is utterly ridiculous and dont know boxing period.
Who on Ali's resume is as tall or skilled as Vitali or Wlad? Nobody

George Foreman had power but didnt have the boxing skill, Wlad and Vitali have boxing skill and power. Id give both a great shot to beat Ali.

For starters Ali was past prime for the Norton fights AND fighting a fighter who's style of boxing was poison to slick boxers. Secondly, height is probably the most neglible physical trait when it comes to boxing: Reach is FAR more significant and neither Klitschko has any significant reach advantage over Ali. Thirdly, the Klitschkos only seem as skilled as they do compared to the grossly obese no-skilled tubs of lard fighting in today's Heavyweight division.

Poet

Dynamite Kid
06-30-2009, 06:32 PM
Ali aruably lost to ****in Kenny Norton twice, to say he'd KO Vitali or beat him easily is utterly ridiculous and dont know boxing period.
Who on Ali's resume is as tall or skilled as Vitali or Wlad? Nobody

George Foreman had power but didnt have the boxing skill, Wlad and Vitali have boxing skill and power. Id give both a great shot to beat Ali.



Ali did not lose to Norton though. I dont know why people or even Ali himself claim he had trouble with Norton because i had him beating Norton 2 out of the 3 times, and i thought he was the more active fighter throughout both the 2nd and 3rd fight, the first fight he had a broken jaw, so it stands to reason Norton gave him hell then.

GJC
06-30-2009, 06:45 PM
Since I already ran this for Ali Vs. Wlad here is the results for Ali Vs. Vitlali:


Title Bout II

Muhammed Ali 93-5-2 with 62 stoppages
Vitali Klitschko 5-93-2 with 3 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-9-0 with 88 stoppgaes
Vitali Klitschko 9-91-0 with 7 stoppages
Are you a knn alt? :) I'm getting too old for this computer stuff.Sounds interesting though is this programme freely available and user friendly. As you are doing requests, Louis v Marciano and Ali v Marciano have always interested me?

GJC
06-30-2009, 06:47 PM
Ali did not lose to Norton though. I dont know why people or even Ali himself claim he had trouble with Norton because i had him beating Norton 2 out of the 3 times, and i thought he was the more active fighter throughout both the 2nd and 3rd fight, the first fight he had a broken jaw, so it stands to reason Norton gave him hell then.
oooooo not sure about that, I had Norton winning 1 and 3 and have my doubts about the 2nd too. GreatA posted 2nd one for me and I keep intending to re-watch it. Norton was just a bad style for Ali, doesn't make him the better fighter just one of those aberations that makes boxing such fun.

GJC
06-30-2009, 06:49 PM
For starters Ali was past prime for the Norton fights AND fighting a fighter who's style of boxing was poison to slick boxers. Secondly, height is probably the most neglible physical trait when it comes to boxing: Reach is FAR more significant and neither Klitschko has any significant reach advantage over Ali. Thirdly, the Klitschkos only seem as skilled as they do compared to the grossly obese no-skilled tubs of lard fighting in today's Heavyweight division.

Poet
Ah but you are forgetting median weight!

GJC
06-30-2009, 06:51 PM
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
It lasted 6 rounds, Hearns was slaughtering Barklay for 3 rounds!
I made it 4-2 not like he only had to stay on his feet to win.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 06:52 PM
Are you a knn alt? :) I'm getting too old for this computer stuff.Sounds interesting though is this programme freely available and user friendly. As you are doing requests, Louis v Marciano and Ali v Marciano have always interested me?

They're freely available if purchased lol. No problem on the matchups: Have the results in a few.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 06:54 PM
Ah but you are forgetting median weight!

Not to mention fights against "bums" (ie. fighters weighing less than 235) and "featherfists" (ie. people KOing those under 235) as well as factoring out fights over 12 rounds and bouts not fought in Germany ect. ect. ect.

Poet

Dynamite Kid
06-30-2009, 06:58 PM
oooooo not sure about that, I had Norton winning 1 and 3 and have my doubts about the 2nd too. GreatA posted 2nd one for me and I keep intending to re-watch it. Norton was just a bad style for Ali, doesn't make him the better fighter just one of those aberations that makes boxing such fun.


I think Ali clearly threw more punches in both fights.

When Norton is stalking, Ali is punching and that is a feature of both fights imo.

I would not go as far as to say he was a bad style match up for Ali because i had Ali wining both fight, but one thing Norton did to Ali was disrupt his rhythm.

Rosseboi
06-30-2009, 06:59 PM
Prime Vitali. Too big, too strong - he's everything Foreman wanted to be and more.

If a 5 foot 11 205 pound Frazier could put Ali down what do you think a 250 pound 6 foot 7 and a half inch tall technical beast with the highest ko % in history will do? Ali only weighed 215 for crying out loud. Utter mismatch - this would be anything but a repeat of rumble in the jungle :S

They ran Ali/Marciano through the 'computer' too. Look how that turned out.

GJC
06-30-2009, 07:03 PM
what do you think a 250 pound 6 foot 7 and a half inch tall technical beast with the highest ko % in history will do?

In boxing he would lose fancy him in basketball or weightlifting though

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 07:41 PM
Are you a knn alt? :) I'm getting too old for this computer stuff.Sounds interesting though is this programme freely available and user friendly. As you are doing requests, Louis v Marciano and Ali v Marciano have always interested me?

Here you go!


Title Bout II

Joe Louis 75-23-2 with 52 stoppages
Rocky Marciano 23-75-2 with 22 stoppages


Data Boxing

Joe Louis 61-38-1 with 47 stoppages
Rocky Marciano 38-61-1 with 17 stoppages

-------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Muhammed Ali 61-32-7 with 32
Rocky Marciano 32-61-7 with 22

Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 93-7-0 with 77 stoppages
Rocky Marciano 7-93-0 with 6 stoppages

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 07:42 PM
In boxing he would lose fancy him in basketball or weightlifting though

Well GJC, who have to remember with a lot of these troglodyte Nimrods weight is everything.....so Butterbean MUST be "The Greatest"! Followed closely by Valuev.

Poet

them_apples
06-30-2009, 07:47 PM
Since I already ran this for Ali Vs. Wlad here is the results for Ali Vs. Vitlali:


Title Bout II

Muhammed Ali 93-5-2 with 62 stoppages
Vitali Klitschko 5-93-2 with 3 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-9-0 with 88 stoppgaes
Vitali Klitschko 9-91-0 with 7 stoppages


Ali would woop him but those games are rubbish and don't hold an ounce of truth.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 07:49 PM
Ali would woop him but those games are rubbish and don't hold an ounce of truth.

They generate LOADS of discussion though and more than a little bit of fun.....And Boxing History has been kind of dead lately so.....

Poet

GJC
06-30-2009, 07:50 PM
Here you go!


Title Bout II

Joe Louis 75-23-2 with 52 stoppages
Rocky Marciano 23-75-2 with 22 stoppages


Data Boxing

Joe Louis 61-38-1 with 47 stoppages
Rocky Marciano 38-61-1 with 17 stoppages

-------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Muhammed Ali 61-32-7 with 32
Rocky Marciano 32-61-7 with 22

Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 93-7-0 with 77 stoppages
Rocky Marciano 7-93-0 with 6 stoppages
Thanks for doing that poet. Louis v Marciano probably about halfway betweenthe 2 results is fair. Very wild on Ali v Marciano, would maybe 80-20 to Ali on that as being fairer.Still guess we will agree with what is our own opiion at the end of the day. Read up your Moore v Conn data, Conn 65 stoppages? Go back and do it properly, lol
Love Conn but he couldn't knock me out 65 times!

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 07:53 PM
Thanks for doing that poet. Louis v Marciano probably about halfway betweenthe 2 results is fair. Very wild on Ali v Marciano, would maybe 80-20 to Ali on that as being fairer.Still guess we will agree with what is our own opiion at the end of the day. Read up your Moore v Conn data, Conn 65 stoppages? Go back and do it properly, lol
Love Conn but he couldn't knock me out 65 times!

The problem was in Data Boxing Moore at Heavyweight is a proverbial "old man" while Conn is merely in prime fighting at a higher weight class. Title Bout has Moore rated differently at Heavyweight.

Poet

GJC
06-30-2009, 07:53 PM
They generate LOADS of discussion though and more than a little bit of fun.....And Boxing History has been kind of dead lately so.....

Poet
I will count them as scientific fact when I agree with them and total rubbish when I don't :)
Good fun though.
Benny Leonard v Roberto Duran?

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 07:54 PM
I will count them as scientific fact when I agree with them and total rubbish when I don't :)
Good fun though.
Benny Leonard v Roberto Duran?

Duran Vs. Leonard? Consider it done!

Poet

GJC
06-30-2009, 07:57 PM
Duran Vs. Leonard? Consider it done!

Poet
Thankyou.
I'm on a pension so i'll help you get your money's worth ;)

GJC
06-30-2009, 08:01 PM
There's 100's isn't there?
Burley v Robinson
Wills v Dempsey
Dempsey v Johnson
Greb v Ketchell
Langford v both of above

I'll load, you fire :)

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:03 PM
To give you an idea of the detail of the simulation I ran a one-off matchup between Louis and Marciano and saved the transcript which follows:

Joe Louis vs Rocky Marciano

Fight info: Yankee Stadium, New York, NY, United States, 2013 07 06, announcer is Michael Buffer, referee is Mills Lane, the bout will be scored by the three judges Tony Perez (Puerto Rico), Franz Marti (Switzerland) and Lee McCowan (United States), ring card girl is Amy Longlegs, this is not a title bout, the bout is scheduled for 15 rounds, three KD rule is not in effect, save by the bell only in last round, referee or doctor can stop the fight, mandatory 8 count is in effect, fight stopped due to an accidental head butt: Tech. Draw through 50%/Scorecard after 50%, game will check for injuries, game will adjust ratings for weight class, use judges bias is set to use bias rating, Scoring System is 10 Point Must.

In the red corner: Joe Louis Record: 0 0 0 Career Stage: Prime Conditioning: Top Condition
Trainer: Jack Blackburn
Cut Man: Manny Seamon

In the blue corner: Rocky Marciano Record: 0 0 0 Career Stage: Prime Conditioning: Top Condition
Trainer: Charley Goldman
Cut Man: Charley Goldman

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:05 PM
Round 1
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Here come the fighters to ring center as the bell sounds to begin the first round. 0:0
0:13 Joe Louis lands a hard hook! 4:0
0:13 Marciano is staggered… 4:0
0:31 Marciano smothers Louis s attack as Joe Louis tries to get off some shots inside. 4:0
0:33 Marciano lands two hard body shots and one made Louis grunt. 4:3
0:50 Marciano lands a hard hook! 4:7
0:50 That s the shot Marciano hoped to land! Louis looks bad after that blow! 4:7
01:08 The two men are bumping heads as they wrestle on the inside. Now, Louis lands a short uppercut to the chin of Marciano. 6:7
01:17 Both fighters ought to be using their jabs more to set up their other punches this round. 6:7
01:21 Marciano retreats into his own corner... 6:7
01:25 Louis wings a big left hand at Marciano but the latter sidesteps the punch. 6:7
01:27 The cross scores for Marciano. He needs to throw that punch more often. 6:9
01:36 Both fighters are keeping their distance for the moment. 6:9
01:42 They take a half step back. 6:9
01:44 Marciano moves into a neutral corner. 6:9
01:49 Louis lands a smashing uppercut! 10:9
01:49 Marciano seems to have been hurt by that punch! 10:9
02:05 Louis digs two shots to the body and then rips Marciano with a short uppercut on the inside. 13:9
02:13 Marciano s corner is shouting at him to stay off the ropes. 13:9
02:26 Marciano just comes up short with that shot. 13:9
02:33 Louis lands a solid uppercut! 17:9
02:33 That punch may have stunned Marciano momentarily. 17:9
02:41 Both fighters come into this fight predicting a win... Not that you'd expect anything else. 17:9
02:52 Marciano works free! He backs to ring center, with Louis following. 17:9
02:57 Rocky Marciano pushes Louis away to give himself a little more space to work with. 17:9
03:00 Louis is trapped in Marciano s corner... 17:9
03:00 Loud applause accompanies the end of this round. 18:10

Round 2
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Round 2 begins as the bell sounds. 0:0
0:12 Louis has Marciano pinned! 0:0
0:16 Louis drives that short hook into Marciano s midsection! 5:0
0:16 Marciano was stunned by that blow! 5:0
0:25 Marciano received a pep talk from Charley Goldman before he left his corner; we ll see if it worked. 5:0
0:26 Joe Louis throws the jab and it lands cleanly. 7:0
0:42 Marciano misses wildly with the hook. 7:0
0:53 Marciano slides into the corner... 7:0
0:53 Joe Louis likes to use the hook but he d better get a little closer when he throws it or Rocky Marciano s going to beat him to the punch and hurt him! 9:0
01:02 Both fighters need to close the distance between them. 9:0
01:11 Louis sometimes falls in love with his hook ... but when it scores like that one, it s hard to blame him! 12:0
01:21 The two fighters clinch, throwing feeble punches as they grab a quick
breather. Now they back away from each other. 12:0
01:27 Joe Louis is pinned in his own corner... 12:0
01:32 Rocky Marciano is offering minimal head movement as he comes straight forward. 12:0
01:36 Louis backs into the upper corner. 12:0
01:41 Marciano fires a lead right that Louis manages to avoid. 12:0
01:48 Louis scores with one, two, three hard shots in a row! 15:0
01:57 Rocky Marciano is covering up to prevent body shots, but he s leaving his chin dangerously unprotected! 15:0
02:07 Louis lands a right cross but Marciano turned with it, diluting some of its power. 17:0
02:19 Marciano is trapped in his own corner... 17:0
02:19 Louis doubles up on the jab and he managed to score with the second one. 19:0
02:33 Marciano misses with that punch. 19:0
02:36 Louis blasts away with both hands and bangs home some clean shots. 22:0
02:49 Marciano misses. He had an opening and whiffed with the punch. 22:0
03:00 Marciano fires and misses. 22:0
03:00 The fighters continue the action as the bell rings to finish Round 2, forcing Lane to step in. 22:2

Round 3
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Amy The Smile Longlegs exits the ring to wild cheering. We await the bell, signaling the start of Round 3. There it is! 0:0
0:20 Louis backs into a neutral corner. 0:0
0:20 Marciano lands a big hook to the head. That one had to hurt, even though Louis took it well. 0:3
0:30 Marciano slides into a neutral corner... 0:3
0:34 Louis misses with what looked like a backhand. He s lucky. If that had landed, he might have drawn a warning. 0:3
0:42 Louis gets his head on the chest of Marciano. He tries to outmuscle him on the inside. Louis scores with a nice short hook to the head. 2:3
0:51 Marciano retreats into a neutral corner. 2:3
0:51 Louis gives a nice head feint and then lands a hook to the head of Marciano which made him blink. 4:3
01:00 The two fighters lean on one another. Their arms are free and they should be throwing punches. Now they separate and the action resumes. 4:3
01:08 Marciano just comes up short with that shot. 4:3
01:20 Marciano is clinching. Early in a fight you have to wonder but late in a fight clinching can give a fighter a breather. 4:3
01:25 Lane moves in to break the clinch. 4:3
01:34 Marciano s corner is shouting to their man, encouraging him to pick up the action. 4:3
01:38 Louis gets inside and fires a hook to Marciano s body. 6:3
01:51 Marciano doesn t have to look for Louis this round. He is right there in front of him. 6:3
01:54 Both fighters are flatfooted now. Marciano blasts home a short hook to the body. 6:6
02:02 It is a good boxing crowd tonight. They know the game and are reacting to every good punch that lands. 6:6
02:17 Louis comes in low. Marciano puts a headlock on him. Lane knocks
Marciano s arm off Louis s head. 6:6
02:21 Louis works his way free! 6:6
02:28 Louis moves into the far left corner. 6:6
02:33 Marciano throws a straight right that glances off the shoulder of Louis but it's enough to keep him off balance. 6:6
02:35 Louis lands the lead right. 8:6
02:45 Marciano tries to double up on the hook to the body and at least one gets through. 8:8
03:00 Marciano tries to drop the right hand over the top but Louis ducks under it. 8:8
03:00 The Referee has to get between Louis and Rocky Marciano as they glare at one another. He sends them to their corners as the bell sounds to end the round. 8:8

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:06 PM
Round 4
Time Commentary Points
0:00 The seconds hurry out of Marciano s corner as the bell sounds for Round 4. 0:0
0:06 Louis got quite a pep talk in his corner; we ll see if Jack Blackburn s
instructions work. 0:0
0:11 Joe Louis lands a strong uppercut! 4:0
0:11 Marciano looks stunned! 4:0
0:16 Both fighters are unmarked at this stage of the fight. 4:0
0:21 Louis lets his hands go inside and scores with at least two hard shots to Marciano s ribcage and neck. 7:0
0:30 Marciano tries to push Louis back in an attempt to gain room to punch. 7:0
0:34 Both fighters are feinting with the shoulders. Now, Louis lands the right hand. 9:0
0:43 Louis quickly hitches up his trunks. 9:0
0:50 Watch Louis move. He is darting in and out, in and out, keeping Marciano off balance. 9:0
0:58 Louis traps Rocky Marciano in the corner! 9:0
01:02 Louis s punch actually goes behind Marciano as the latter moved inside just as Louis threw a looping shot. 9:0
01:13 Louis landed a sharp combination that rocked Rocky Marciano back on his heels! 13:0
01:13 Marciano was stopped cold by that series of shots! 13:0
01:25 Rocky Marciano rips to the head with a powerful right cross. 13:3
01:39 Marciano is either lucky or has radar. Louis s last punch missed landing by a fraction of an inch! 13:3
01:50 Marciano is off target with that punch. 13:3
01:57 The action slows for the moment. 13:3
02:10 * Louis lands a vicious uppercut and down goes Marciano! 13:3
02:12 The count starts... 20:3
02:12 1... 20:3
02:13 2... 20:3
02:14 3... 20:3
02:15 4... 20:3
02:16 5... 20:3
02:16 * Marciano's legs look bad as he manages to rise from the knockdown. The referee is finishing the mandatory 8 count. 20:3
02:17 6... 20:3
02:18 7... 20:3
02:19 8... 20:3
02:19 Lane is allowing the fight to continue. Marciano looks real shaken to us, however. 20:3
02:19 Marciano has suffered a delayed reaction to that last punch. He lurched forward and his legs look bad. Louis needs to capitalize on this moment because he can end this thing right now. 20:3
02:32 Louis is just missing by a hair with his punches. 20:3
02:43 Louis fires and misses. 20:3
02:54 He fails to connect with that punch. He pushed it out there instead of cutting loose with it. 20:3
03:00 Rocky Marciano retreats into the right corner. 20:3
03:00 The bell sounded, ending the round but it s a wonder the referee and the fighters could hear it over the noise being made by the crowd. That
knockdown really pumped up the spectators here tonight. 22:3
03:00 Louis wings a big left hand at Marciano but the latter sidesteps the punch. 20:3

Round 5
Time Commentary Points
0:00 It s Round 5 of this scheduled 15 rounder. 0:0
0:08 Jack Blackburn seemed to pump up Louis between rounds. 0:0
0:08 Marciano drives home an uppercut. That punch had something on it. 0:3
0:13 No blood, no bruises and no swelling; you wouldn t know that these guys have already fought 5 rounds. 0:3
0:21 Marciano has Louis trapped in the near right neutral corner... 0:3
0:21 The cross scores for Marciano. He needs to throw that punch more often. 0:5
0:37 Neither fighter is straying far from the middle of the ring. 0:5
0:42 Louis circles left, then right in an attempt to cut off the ring. 0:5
0:46 The two men are circling one another, looking for an opening. 0:5
0:54 Louis dips as if to launch a body shot, then goes upstairs with a quick hook to the head that puts Rocky Marciano back on his heels! 4:5
0:54 Marciano appears to have been staggered by that punch… 4:5
01:03 Louis lands the right hand. He s pretty effective with that punch when he sets it up right. 6:5
01:17 Louis holds his arms up in disgust as Marciano holds him around his waist. 6:5
01:29 Referee Lane has to separate the two... 6:5
01:38 Marciano just landed a three punch combo! 6:9
01:38 Louis is going to need to regroup after that series of blows... 6:9
01:43 Marciano is rebounding from the knockdown he suffered in the last frame. 6:9
01:51 Louis backs into his own corner... 6:9
01:55 Marciano is holding… 6:9
02:13 The Referee breaks it up... 6:9
02:26 No one is going to confuse Marciano with a ballerina, but at least he isn t just standing still. 6:9
02:41 Marciano misses with the left and then fails to connect with the right as well. 6:9
02:54 Marciano slides along the far ropes. 6:9
03:00 Marciano fires a left hand that Louis takes high on the shoulder. 6:9
03:00 There s the bell. That brings Round 5 to a close. 7:10

Round 6
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Louis looks to be in good shape as Round 6 gets underway. 0:0
0:06 Hey, that ringcard girl was something else! 0:0
0:10 Marciano has Louis trapped! 0:0
0:14 Marciano bulls his way inside, pushing Louis up against the ropes. Good thing they don t score on style points. 0:0
0:14 Neither fighter shows any wear and tear at this point. 0:0
0:18 Charley Goldman was really animated in Marciano s corner and Marciano was nodding in agreement. 0:0
0:19 Marciano has Louis blocked in! 0:0
0:23 Marciano lands a devastating cross! 0:4
0:23 OH! Marciano landed it square and Louis felt it! 0:4
0:37 Marciano lands a solid hook! 0:8
0:37 Joe Louis is suddenly in trouble! 0:8
0:51 Marciano doesn t look all that graceful but he moves fairly well in the ring. 0:8
0:55 Joe Louis is trying to avoid shots to the body. He d better look out for shots to the head! 0:8
0:58 Marciano pins Louis in the corner! 0:8
01:03 Marciano fires a shot, but it glances off Louis s shoulder. 0:8
01:10 Both fighters are scoring in this exchange but Marciano is coming out on top. 2:10
01:24 Joe Louis is clinching... Marciano is trying to free his gloves... They are under Louis s arms... 2:10
01:29 Joe Louis pushes Marciano away. 2:10
01:38 Marciano tries to give angles as he continues his relentless forward motion. 2:10
01:43 Marciano has Louis cornered! 2:10
01:47 Marciano is jockeying for position as he tries to force Louis back into the corner. 2:10
01:57 Louis slams home the jab. That punch landed with the force of a cross or a hook. 5:10
02:06 The crowd is reacting to every punch thrown by these guys, whether it lands or not. 5:10
02:09 Both fighters sneak a breather as they clinch. Now they move apart. 5:10
02:12 Marciano pins Louis in the corner! 5:10
02:16 Marciano drops the right hand flush on Louis s chin! 5:15
02:16 Louis is going to need to regroup after that blow... 5:15
02:30 Marciano lands a crushing combination! 5:19
02:30 Louis was staggered by those punches... 5:19
02:43 Marciano tries a straight right that s blocked by the gloves of Louis. 5:19
02:54 Marciano just delivered a wake up call!!! He hurt Louis with a sharp
combination! 5:23
02:54 Louis appears shaken by those punches! 5:23
03:00 We re at the 3:00 mark and that brings this round to an end. 4:25

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:07 PM
Round 7
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Marciano looks to be in excellent shape as Round 7 gets underway. 0:0
0:07 Whatever Charley Goldman said to him in the corner between rounds must have had some effect. Marciano is letting his hands go. 0:0
0:08 Both fighters are pawing with the jab, trying to find an opening. Louis digs a quick hook into the exposed side of Marciano. 2:0
0:12 Both fighters show virtually nothing in the way of damage. 2:0
0:20 Marciano seems to be protecting his body which is leaving his head vulnerable. He doesn t like body shots but I don t know anyone that does. 2:0
0:28 Marciano misses with that punch. 2:0
0:30 Joe Louis rips off two quick jabs and one finds the mark. 4:0
0:40 Louis moves into a neutral corner. 4:0
0:40 Marciano shoots the right home. That s a sneaky punch. 4:2
0:53 Marciano works his way in and leans on Louis. 4:2
0:58 Both fighters move to ring center. 4:2
01:02 Rocky Marciano dips as if to launch a body shot, then goes upstairs with a quick hook to the head that puts Louis back on his heels! 4:6
01:02 That s the shot Marciano hoped to land! Louis looks bad after that series of blows. 4:6
01:12 The fighters are jockeying for position as both men try to gain the advantage here in the 7th. 4:6
01:15 Marciano slides into his own corner... 4:6
01:20 Marciano tries to muscle inside but Louis clinches him. 4:6
01:29 Referee Lane separates the two... 4:6
01:38 Louis can t win this fight if he just throws one punch at a time. Now he just unloaded a flurry of punches and several scored cleanly. 6:6
01:47 Marciano has Louis trapped in the right neutral corner... 6:6
01:52 Marciano lands a devastating hook! 6:10
01:52 Louis is hurt! 6:10
02:05 The two fighters lean on one another, neither willing to do any work for the moment. The referee pushes them apart and tells them to get on with the action. 6:10
02:17 Louis throws a flurry of punches but Marciano either blocks or slips them. 6:10
02:19 Marciano blasts two wicked shots to the ribs of Louis and you could see him wince in pain. 6:13
02:31 Marciano digs two shots to the body and then rips Louis with a short uppercut on the inside. 6:16
02:40 Marciano lands two quick, hard uppercuts that make Louis take a half step backwards. 6:19
02:54 Louis picks off the jab thrown by Marciano. 6:19
02:56 Joe Louis digs a short hook to ribs of Marciano. 8:19
03:00 And there s the bell ending Round 7. 7:21

Round 8
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Marciano is getting his full rest as he remains on his stool as the Round 8 bell sounds. Now he s up and his corner scrambles to exit the ring. 0:0
0:05 Charley Goldman not only gave Marciano encouragement between rounds but also some solid advice on how to handle Louis. Now it s up to Marciano to implement it. 0:0
0:11 Joe Louis lets his hands go but his punches land on the arms of Marciano. 0:0
0:17 Marciano catches Joe Louis coming in with a sweet uppercut! 0:4
0:17 Joe Louis is suddenly in trouble! 0:4
0:22 Both of these guys look just like they came out of their dressing rooms not a mark on them. 0:4
0:26 Lane is getting too involved in the fight and is becoming more of a factor than a referee is supposed to be. 0:4
0:29 Louis scores big with that hook to the jaw of Marciano. Marciano took a step back after absorbing that shot. 3:4
0:43 Marciano has been watching too much wrestling. He s clinching. 3:4
0:47 Lane moves them apart. 3:4
0:57 It s a sweet uppercut by Marciano! He snapped Louis s head straight back with that punch! 3:9
0:57 That was a beautiful uppercut! Louis s eyes actually rolled back in his head! It s amazing that he's still standing. 3:9
01:09 Louis moves into the upper left corner. 3:9
01:14 Marciano pins Louis s arms. Now they move apart. 3:9
01:29 Louis pushes Marciano away. 3:9
01:36 Marciano has Louis pinned! 3:9
01:40 Marciano tries to double up on the jab but neither hit the mark. 3:9
01:52 Marciano lands a strong hook! 3:13
01:52 Louis was staggered by that punch! 3:13
02:06 Joe Louis and Marciano are in a clinch, Lane hollers at them to break and start fighting. 3:13
02:15 Louis and Rocky Marciano each take a step back. 3:13
02:24 Marciano fires a volley of punches but Louis was already moving laterally and was out of harm s way by the time Marciano started punching. 3:13
02:31 Rocky Marciano is receiving a lot of encouragement from his corner. If this helps win fights, he has a real good shot tonight. 3:13
02:35 Louis is blocked in his own corner... 3:13
02:40 Marciano lands a crushing combination! 3:17
02:40 Louis appears shaken by those punches! 3:17
02:44 Louis is starting to swell just a little under his right eye. It remains to be seen if it will become a problem. 3:17
02:53 Lane warns Marciano for holding and hitting, although he is doing a lot more holding than hitting. 3:17
02:58 Lane has to break them apart. 3:17
03:00 Marciano pins Louis s arms against his body stopping him from throwing any punches. 3:17
03:00 Lane has to break the clinch. 3:17
03:00 There s the bell, finishing Round 8. 2:17

Round 9
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Louis and Marciano square off as the bell sounds to start the action for Round 9. 0:0
0:07 The swelling on the face of Louis is noticeable, even at a distance. Although his corner men were applying cold compresses and trying to work the swelling away from his eyes, Louis still has distension. 0:0
0:13 Louis drops his shoulder as if to throw a right, then quickly rips a quick left hook to the body that makes Marciano wince! 5:0
0:13 Marciano looks shaken! 5:0
0:22 Marciano s corner men did their job with quiet efficiency and confidence. 5:0
0:27 OH! Louis landed the big hook flush! 9:0
0:27 Marciano is staggered… 9:0
0:36 Louis has Marciano pinned! 9:0
0:41 Louis doubled up on the hook. Did you see the water fly off Marciano s head? 13:0
0:41 Marciano appears shaken by this punch! 13:0
0:55 Marciano drives the hook home. 13:3
0:59 The swelling at Louis s right eye is worsening. 13:3
01:04 Marciano slides into the corner... 13:3
01:09 Louis scores with a winging right! Marciano s head turned halfway round with that punch! 17:3
01:09 Marciano was staggered by that punch! 17:3
01:21 Marciano throws a punch and lands. Louis scores with a counter. Looks like both fighters were effective in that exchange. 19:5
01:30 Louis lands to the chest and neck of Marciano. 21:5
01:39 Marciano retreats into the far left corner. 21:5
01:39 Marciano lets go with a hook but Louis blocks it and then he scores with a hook of his own! 23:5
01:53 That was a straight right by Louis! 27:5
01:53 Marciano is hurt! 27:5
02:02 Louis has Marciano cornered! 27:5
02:07 Louis misses badly. It looked like he changed his mind half way through the punch. 27:5
02:14 Marciano just landed a three punch combo! 27:10
02:14 Louis was shaken by those blows! 27:10
02:18 Louis s right eye is becoming more swollen and it s going to need controlled in order for Joe Louis to see properly out of it. 27:10
02:28 Louis scores with a tremendous left! 31:10
02:28 Marciano was stunned by that blow! 31:10
02:37 * That punch caught Marciano clean. He brings his arms up in a defensive posture. Now he pitches forward! Marciano goes down after a delayed reaction to the hook by Louis! 31:10
02:40 Lane begins the count... 41:10
02:40 1... 41:10
02:41 2... 41:10
02:42 3... 41:10
02:43 4... 41:10
02:44 5... 41:10
02:45 6... 41:10
02:46 7... 41:10
02:47 8... 41:10
02:48 9... 41:10
02:49 10! 41:10
02:49 * That's it! Marciano can't beat the count. Louis wins this fight with a knockout. 41:10


Fight Result
Here s Michael Buffer with the call…
Ladies and Gentlemen! The winner by knockout at the 02:50 mark in Round 9 is…..Joe Louis!


Score Cards
Tony Perez Puerto Rico Round Total
Joe Louis 75
Rocky Marciano 76

Franz Marti Switzerland Round Total
Joe Louis 76
Rocky Marciano 76

Lee McCowan United States Round Total
Joe Louis 76
Rocky Marciano 77

Round Totals
Joe Louis 227
Rocky Marciano 229


Statistics

Categories Joe Louis Rocky Marciano
Knockdowns scored 2 0
Total Number of Fouls 0 0
Cuts 0 0

Punches Landed
Jabs 53 19
Hooks 49 34
Crosses 48 68
Combinations 58 33
Uppercuts 34 33

Punches Thrown 476 532
Punches Landed 242 187
Punches Missed 234 345
Punching Accuracy 50.8% 35.2%

Infern0
06-30-2009, 08:10 PM
I hope you realise you are going to be doing this forever now poet?

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:12 PM
I hope you realise you are going to be doing this forever now poet?

:rofl: No doubt!

Poet

GJC
06-30-2009, 08:14 PM
Thanks, really enjoyed that though knew you'd pick one of the ones Louis won :)
Which programme was that from? Must say the 1st programmes results seemed a bit more accurate than the 2nd.
Is it easy for a complete computer idiot to use? Might have to invest looks great fun.
You should post the commentary for the Wlad/Vitaliv Ali fights sure they would be popular lol

GJC
06-30-2009, 08:15 PM
I hope you realise you are going to be doing this forever now poet?
I'm running out of ink writing down my requests :)

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:46 PM
Thanks, really enjoyed that though knew you'd pick one of the ones Louis won :)
Which programme was that from? Must say the 1st programmes results seemed a bit more accurate than the 2nd.
Is it easy for a complete computer idiot to use? Might have to invest looks great fun.
You should post the commentary for the Wlad/Vitaliv Ali fights sure they would be popular lol

The round by round transcript is from Title Bout II which, as you pointed out is a bit more accurate. As for ease of use, it's one of the easiest ones I've ever used. It also gives you the ability to have literally THOUSANDS of fighters.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:54 PM
There's 100's isn't there?
Burley v Robinson
Wills v Dempsey
Dempsey v Johnson
Greb v Ketchell
Langford v both of above

I'll load, you fire :)

And the results are in!


Title Bout II

Benny Leonard 54-39-7 with 13 stoppages
Roberto Duran 39-54-7 with 23 stoppages


Data Boxing

Benny Leonard 72-26-2 with 5 stoppages
Roberto Duran 26-72-2 with 15 stoppages

------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Ray Robinson 67-30-3 with 41 stoppages
Charley Burley 30-67-3 with 13 stoppages


Data Boxing

Ray Robinson 70-22-8 with 21 stoppages
Charley Burley 22-70-8 with 11 stoppages

------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Jack Dempsey 74-23-3 with 63 stoppages
Harry Wills 23-74-3 with 7 stoppages


Data Boxing

Jack Dempsey 95-3-2 with 58 stoppages
Harry Wills 3-95-2 with 3 stoppages

------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Jack Johnson 53-44-3 with 19 stoppages
Jack Dempsey 44-53-3 with 25 stoppages


Data Boxing

Jack Johnson 51-46-3 with 35 stoppages
Jack Dempsey 46-51-3 with 23 stoppages

------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Stanley Ketchell 52-46-2 with 41 stoppages
HarryGreb 46-52-2 with 33 stoppages


Data Boxing

Stanley Ketchell 29-68-3 with 17 stoppages
HarryGreb 68-29-3 with 0 stoppages

------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Sam Langford 60-40-0 with 58 stoppages
Stanley Ketchell 40-60-0 with 40 stoppages


Data Boxing

Sam Langford 69-28-3 with 28 stoppages
Stanley Ketchell 28-69-3 with 20 stoppages

------------------------------------------------

Title Bout II

Sam Langford 71-27-2 with 56 stoppages
HarryGreb 27-71-2 with 17 stoppages


Data Boxing

Sam Langford 42-51-7 with 14 stoppages
HarryGreb 51-42-7 with 0 stoppages

------------------------------------------------

I think from here on out I'll just run the bouts on Title Bout II since, as GJC has pointed out, it's the more realistic of the two.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 08:57 PM
Thanks, really enjoyed that though knew you'd pick one of the ones Louis won :)
Which programme was that from? Must say the 1st programmes results seemed a bit more accurate than the 2nd.
Is it easy for a complete computer idiot to use? Might have to invest looks great fun.
You should post the commentary for the Wlad/Vitaliv Ali fights sure they would be popular lol

Here, check them out yourself. I uploaded the manuals for both so anyone wanting to get a feel for them could download.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0N1OC2YO

Rosseboi
07-01-2009, 03:15 AM
Running meaningless statistics through a computer is like rampant masturbation without sex. It proves nothing.

Pitting Ali against Vitali is like putting Mosley against Dawson and citing a Mosley win through his 'statistics' / accomplishments.

I had seriously hoped a few people would have been a little more level headed here. I can understand historic romantacism, even favouratism but when logic gets thrown out of the window it annoys me.

GJC
07-01-2009, 06:04 AM
Thanks for doing those Poet quite interesting stuff. Wouldn't take it as gospel but Title Bout's results don't sem that out of whack. Don't neccessarily agree with them all the time but couldsee how they could be justified.
Great work, i'll prepare my next list :)

#1Assassin
07-01-2009, 06:15 AM
but ali struggled with lesser fighters than vitali, like doug jones and henry cooper.. vitali hasnt even really been beat properly, was beating chris byrd until his shoulder went and was leading on the scorecards against lewis before he was stopped on cuts.

so the way your making out is if i've said if tye fields vs ali!

but ali also had a several great wins, something vitali lacks. beating sanders and JCG isnt good enough to compare him to ali. by your logic floyd comparing himself to ray robinson was fair aswell. and it is alot more fair than comparing vitali to ali. the fights u mentioned wasnt a prime ali. lewis was past his best and he was beating vitali when the fight was stopped. he started slow as always, he was further behing against bruno amongst many and came back to knock him out. he wouldve iced vitali in 2 more rounds if the cut hadnt ended it early. ali fougth norton with a broken jaw, vitali quit with a injured shoulder. so ali is tougher, he has a just as good or better chin, much faster hands, much faster feet, much more skills.. vitali moves like a robot, ali would make him look foolish. he would make vitali look like tye fields if they fought.

TheGreatA
07-01-2009, 07:31 AM
Running meaningless statistics through a computer is like rampant masturbation without sex. It proves nothing.

Pitting Ali against Vitali is like putting Mosley against Dawson and citing a Mosley win through his 'statistics' / accomplishments.

I had seriously hoped a few people would have been a little more level headed here. I can understand historic romantacism, even favouratism but when logic gets thrown out of the window it annoys me.

It's more like pitting Chad Dawson against Ezzard Charles/Michael Spinks/Archie Moore.

gingeralbino
07-01-2009, 07:43 AM
Round 7
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Marciano looks to be in excellent shape as Round 7 gets underway. 0:0
0:07 Whatever Charley Goldman said to him in the corner between rounds must have had some effect. Marciano is letting his hands go. 0:0
0:08 Both fighters are pawing with the jab, trying to find an opening. Louis digs a quick hook into the exposed side of Marciano. 2:0
0:12 Both fighters show virtually nothing in the way of damage. 2:0
0:20 Marciano seems to be protecting his body which is leaving his head vulnerable. He doesn t like body shots but I don t know anyone that does. 2:0
0:28 Marciano misses with that punch. 2:0
0:30 Joe Louis rips off two quick jabs and one finds the mark. 4:0
0:40 Louis moves into a neutral corner. 4:0
0:40 Marciano shoots the right home. That s a sneaky punch. 4:2
0:53 Marciano works his way in and leans on Louis. 4:2
0:58 Both fighters move to ring center. 4:2
01:02 Rocky Marciano dips as if to launch a body shot, then goes upstairs with a quick hook to the head that puts Louis back on his heels! 4:6
01:02 That s the shot Marciano hoped to land! Louis looks bad after that series of blows. 4:6
01:12 The fighters are jockeying for position as both men try to gain the advantage here in the 7th. 4:6
01:15 Marciano slides into his own corner... 4:6
01:20 Marciano tries to muscle inside but Louis clinches him. 4:6
01:29 Referee Lane separates the two... 4:6
01:38 Louis can t win this fight if he just throws one punch at a time. Now he just unloaded a flurry of punches and several scored cleanly. 6:6
01:47 Marciano has Louis trapped in the right neutral corner... 6:6
01:52 Marciano lands a devastating hook! 6:10
01:52 Louis is hurt! 6:10
02:05 The two fighters lean on one another, neither willing to do any work for the moment. The referee pushes them apart and tells them to get on with the action. 6:10
02:17 Louis throws a flurry of punches but Marciano either blocks or slips them. 6:10
02:19 Marciano blasts two wicked shots to the ribs of Louis and you could see him wince in pain. 6:13
02:31 Marciano digs two shots to the body and then rips Louis with a short uppercut on the inside. 6:16
02:40 Marciano lands two quick, hard uppercuts that make Louis take a half step backwards. 6:19
02:54 Louis picks off the jab thrown by Marciano. 6:19
02:56 Joe Louis digs a short hook to ribs of Marciano. 8:19
03:00 And there s the bell ending Round 7. 7:21

Round 8
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Marciano is getting his full rest as he remains on his stool as the Round 8 bell sounds. Now he s up and his corner scrambles to exit the ring. 0:0
0:05 Charley Goldman not only gave Marciano encouragement between rounds but also some solid advice on how to handle Louis. Now it s up to Marciano to implement it. 0:0
0:11 Joe Louis lets his hands go but his punches land on the arms of Marciano. 0:0
0:17 Marciano catches Joe Louis coming in with a sweet uppercut! 0:4
0:17 Joe Louis is suddenly in trouble! 0:4
0:22 Both of these guys look just like they came out of their dressing rooms not a mark on them. 0:4
0:26 Lane is getting too involved in the fight and is becoming more of a factor than a referee is supposed to be. 0:4
0:29 Louis scores big with that hook to the jaw of Marciano. Marciano took a step back after absorbing that shot. 3:4
0:43 Marciano has been watching too much wrestling. He s clinching. 3:4
0:47 Lane moves them apart. 3:4
0:57 It s a sweet uppercut by Marciano! He snapped Louis s head straight back with that punch! 3:9
0:57 That was a beautiful uppercut! Louis s eyes actually rolled back in his head! It s amazing that he's still standing. 3:9
01:09 Louis moves into the upper left corner. 3:9
01:14 Marciano pins Louis s arms. Now they move apart. 3:9
01:29 Louis pushes Marciano away. 3:9
01:36 Marciano has Louis pinned! 3:9
01:40 Marciano tries to double up on the jab but neither hit the mark. 3:9
01:52 Marciano lands a strong hook! 3:13
01:52 Louis was staggered by that punch! 3:13
02:06 Joe Louis and Marciano are in a clinch, Lane hollers at them to break and start fighting. 3:13
02:15 Louis and Rocky Marciano each take a step back. 3:13
02:24 Marciano fires a volley of punches but Louis was already moving laterally and was out of harm s way by the time Marciano started punching. 3:13
02:31 Rocky Marciano is receiving a lot of encouragement from his corner. If this helps win fights, he has a real good shot tonight. 3:13
02:35 Louis is blocked in his own corner... 3:13
02:40 Marciano lands a crushing combination! 3:17
02:40 Louis appears shaken by those punches! 3:17
02:44 Louis is starting to swell just a little under his right eye. It remains to be seen if it will become a problem. 3:17
02:53 Lane warns Marciano for holding and hitting, although he is doing a lot more holding than hitting. 3:17
02:58 Lane has to break them apart. 3:17
03:00 Marciano pins Louis s arms against his body stopping him from throwing any punches. 3:17
03:00 Lane has to break the clinch. 3:17
03:00 There s the bell, finishing Round 8. 2:17

Round 9
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Louis and Marciano square off as the bell sounds to start the action for Round 9. 0:0
0:07 The swelling on the face of Louis is noticeable, even at a distance. Although his corner men were applying cold compresses and trying to work the swelling away from his eyes, Louis still has distension. 0:0
0:13 Louis drops his shoulder as if to throw a right, then quickly rips a quick left hook to the body that makes Marciano wince! 5:0
0:13 Marciano looks shaken! 5:0
0:22 Marciano s corner men did their job with quiet efficiency and confidence. 5:0
0:27 OH! Louis landed the big hook flush! 9:0
0:27 Marciano is staggered… 9:0
0:36 Louis has Marciano pinned! 9:0
0:41 Louis doubled up on the hook. Did you see the water fly off Marciano s head? 13:0
0:41 Marciano appears shaken by this punch! 13:0
0:55 Marciano drives the hook home. 13:3
0:59 The swelling at Louis s right eye is worsening. 13:3
01:04 Marciano slides into the corner... 13:3
01:09 Louis scores with a winging right! Marciano s head turned halfway round with that punch! 17:3
01:09 Marciano was staggered by that punch! 17:3
01:21 Marciano throws a punch and lands. Louis scores with a counter. Looks like both fighters were effective in that exchange. 19:5
01:30 Louis lands to the chest and neck of Marciano. 21:5
01:39 Marciano retreats into the far left corner. 21:5
01:39 Marciano lets go with a hook but Louis blocks it and then he scores with a hook of his own! 23:5
01:53 That was a straight right by Louis! 27:5
01:53 Marciano is hurt! 27:5
02:02 Louis has Marciano cornered! 27:5
02:07 Louis misses badly. It looked like he changed his mind half way through the punch. 27:5
02:14 Marciano just landed a three punch combo! 27:10
02:14 Louis was shaken by those blows! 27:10
02:18 Louis s right eye is becoming more swollen and it s going to need controlled in order for Joe Louis to see properly out of it. 27:10
02:28 Louis scores with a tremendous left! 31:10
02:28 Marciano was stunned by that blow! 31:10
02:37 * That punch caught Marciano clean. He brings his arms up in a defensive posture. Now he pitches forward! Marciano goes down after a delayed reaction to the hook by Louis! 31:10
02:40 Lane begins the count... 41:10
02:40 1... 41:10
02:41 2... 41:10
02:42 3... 41:10
02:43 4... 41:10
02:44 5... 41:10
02:45 6... 41:10
02:46 7... 41:10
02:47 8... 41:10
02:48 9... 41:10
02:49 10! 41:10
02:49 * That's it! Marciano can't beat the count. Louis wins this fight with a knockout. 41:10


Fight Result
Here s Michael Buffer with the call…
Ladies and Gentlemen! The winner by knockout at the 02:50 mark in Round 9 is…..Joe Louis!


Score Cards
Tony Perez Puerto Rico Round Total
Joe Louis 75
Rocky Marciano 76

Franz Marti Switzerland Round Total
Joe Louis 76
Rocky Marciano 76

Lee McCowan United States Round Total
Joe Louis 76
Rocky Marciano 77

Round Totals
Joe Louis 227
Rocky Marciano 229


Statistics

Categories Joe Louis Rocky Marciano
Knockdowns scored 2 0
Total Number of Fouls 0 0
Cuts 0 0

Punches Landed
Jabs 53 19
Hooks 49 34
Crosses 48 68
Combinations 58 33
Uppercuts 34 33

Punches Thrown 476 532
Punches Landed 242 187
Punches Missed 234 345
Punching Accuracy 50.8% 35.2%

Ah so Rocky Marciano won then. he was leading on the scorecards when he got knocked out, so he won. Thats how it works right, or is that just with Vitali..............?

Dynamite Kid
07-01-2009, 08:09 AM
Running meaningless statistics through a computer is like rampant masturbation without sex. It proves nothing.

Pitting Ali against Vitali is like putting Mosley against Dawson and citing a Mosley win through his 'statistics' / accomplishments.

I had seriously hoped a few people would have been a little more level headed here. I can understand historic romantacism, even favouratism but when logic gets thrown out of the window it annoys me.


How is it favoritism?

It makes no difference how big you are if you have nothing to hit, Muhammad Ali would make Vitali reset and he would keep him turning constantly.

Frazier is an aggressive come foward pressure fighter who is at his best coming foward, cutting the ring down and being aggressive, whilst Vitali is at his best counter punching, so you see its like i said its completely irrelevant how big Frazier was/is because he had a style that meant he was able to pin Ali down to land punches.

Vitali could catch Ali and hurt him but can you honestly see Vitali knocking Ali out ? that would be Vitali's only ticket to winning because he would get thoroughly outfoxed by the speed and angles of Ali in a Boxing match.


Vitali would have success against a small HW that stood infront of him where by he could impose his extra size and strength, but somebody who makes him come foward and makes him reset constantly is going to give him a big head ache.

Ziggy Stardust
07-01-2009, 08:52 AM
Ah so Rocky Marciano won then. he was leading on the scorecards when he got knocked out, so he won. Thats how it works right, or is that just with Vitali..............?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Brockton Lip
07-01-2009, 03:35 PM
That was a great transcript of Louis-Marciano!

Could you run Ezzard Charles vs. Jones Jr to see the wins/losses for each?

Ziggy Stardust
07-01-2009, 03:38 PM
That was a great transcript of Louis-Marciano!

Could you run Ezzard Charles vs. Jones Jr to see the wins/losses for each?

Consider it done!

Poet

Jim Jeffries
07-01-2009, 03:43 PM
I think that the 66-67 version of Ali would present far too many different angles for the slower Vitali to catch him, and ultimately would outpoint him by a decent margin. A Liston/Ali I or Vitali/Byrd type stoppage caused by hitting air all night and throwing his arm out is not out of the question either. Ali/Wlad would be far more competitive.

Ziggy Stardust
07-01-2009, 03:44 PM
That was a great transcript of Louis-Marciano!

Could you run Ezzard Charles vs. Jones Jr to see the wins/losses for each?

Okay, here you go!

Title Bout II

Ezzard Charles 69-26-5 with 32 stoppages
Roy Jones Jr. 26-69-5 with 11 stoppages

Ezzard Charles was a beast at Light-Heavy

Poet

Brockton Lip
07-01-2009, 04:01 PM
I'd have to agree Charles was a monster at that weight and one of my favorite fighters.

Thanks Poet!!:You_Rock_

Ziggy Stardust
07-01-2009, 04:04 PM
I'd have to agree Charles was a monster at that weight and one of my favorite fighters.

Thanks Poet!!:You_Rock_

One of mine too! I love watching Charles fight :boxing:

Poet

TredKiller
07-01-2009, 04:44 PM
Vitali doesnt have the Speed, headmovement, pressue, or stamina to beat ali imo,

but he does have a puncherss chance.

alfredkubin
07-06-2009, 03:40 PM
A robot like Vitali could never beat the most brilliant and creative heavyweight of all times....