View Full Version : Muhammed Ali Vs. Wladimir Klitschko Computer Matchup


Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 02:06 PM
This is in response to the spait of "old-timer" bashing by certain parties over in NSB. Ali and Wlad are matched up 100 times on two different boxing simulation programs and here are the results:


Title Bout Boxing II

Muhammed Ali 94-5-1 with 87 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 5-94-1 with 4 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-7-2 with 60 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 7-91-2 with 2 stoppages

#1Assassin
06-30-2009, 02:13 PM
ali stops him every time. wlad is a good HW but he doesnt deserve being mentioned in the same sentence as ali.

BattlingNelson
06-30-2009, 02:24 PM
As good as I think Wlad is I think Ali beats him as simulated by the computer. Wlad maybe big and he also has an excellent jab, but he just will not be able to cope with the blinding speed of Ali. I can actually hardly see Wlad win a round.

mickey malone
06-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Too much of everything for Wlad...

Ali.... UD

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 02:51 PM
I can easily do this with any match up anyone cares to come up with. In fact I was considering doing a tournament for each "old-school-eight" weight classes where the top 21 fighters (selected by me) fight each other 100 times each.

Poet

BattlingNelson
06-30-2009, 03:00 PM
I can easily do this with any match up anyone cares to come up with. In fact I was considering doing a tournament for each "old-school-eight" weight classes where the top 21 fighters (selected by me) fight each other 100 times each.

Poet
Please try Mayweather-Battling Nelson :lol1:

Can you do old-school rules?

Also Ali-Louis could be fun.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 03:06 PM
Please try Mayweather-Battling Nelson :lol1:

Can you do old-school rules?

Also Ali-Louis could be fun.

Mayweather Vs. Battling Nelson? No problem: Give me 15 minutes to a half an hour and I'll have the results. Ali Vs. Louis? Ran THAT one MANY times and it results in a near 50-50 split with a TINY edge to Ali. Don't think I've ever had a match up that consistently close.

Poet

7punchcombo
06-30-2009, 03:10 PM
This is in response to the spait of "old-timer" bashing by certain parties over in NSB. Ali and Wlad are matched up 100 times on two different boxing simulation programs and here are the results:


Title Bout Boxing II

Muhammed Ali 94-5-1 with 87 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 5-94-1 with 4 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-7-2 with 60 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 7-91-2 with 2 stoppages
Ali wins. too much for Wlads robot style

BattlingNelson
06-30-2009, 03:20 PM
Mayweather Vs. Battling Nelson? No problem: Give me 15 minutes to a half an hour and I'll have the results. Ali Vs. Louis? Ran THAT one MANY times and it results in a near 50-50 split with a TINY edge to Ali. Don't think I've ever had a match up that consistently close.

Poet
Lol. I did think that you already tried Louis-Ali. 50/50 is about right.

BTW if Mayweather wins I'd like to see him against other past greats like Benny Leonard and Joe Gans.

Is it an online simulator?

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 03:20 PM
Please try Mayweather-Battling Nelson :lol1:

Can you do old-school rules?

Also Ali-Louis could be fun.

Okay. Battling Nelson Vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. Here are the results:


Title Bout II

Floyd Mayweather Jr. 89-9-2 with 64 stoppages
Battling Nelson 9-89-2 with 4 stoppages


Data Boxing

Floyd Mayweather Jr. 85-12-3 with 3 stoppages
Battling Nelson 12-85-3 with 4 stoppages

BattlingNelson
06-30-2009, 03:28 PM
Okay. Battling Nelson Vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. Here are the results:


Title Bout II

Floyd Mayweather Jr. 89-9-2 with 64 stoppages
Battling Nelson 9-89-2 with 4 stoppages


Data Boxing

Floyd Mayweather Jr. 85-12-3 with 3 stoppages
Battling Nelson 12-85-3 with 4 stoppages
No surprise given that it's a 12 or 15 rounder. Perhaps it's mildly surprising that PBF loses at all.

If ever there was an old-school figher it was Nelson. I'd think that Gans or Leonard would fare signifikantly better.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 03:34 PM
No surprise given that it's a 12 or 15 rounder. Perhaps it's mildly surprising that PBF loses at all.

If ever there was an old-school figher it was Nelson. I'd think that Gans or Leonard would fare signifikantly better.

The Title Bout II simulation was 15 round fights: The highest I could set it. Data Boxing was 25 round fights.

Poet

paulsinghnl
06-30-2009, 03:44 PM
nice! that'll silence the dummy's in the forum once and for all.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 03:46 PM
nice! that'll silence the dummy's in the forum once and for all.

It won't: The Klit-Lickers will just say the programs are biased against Eastern-Euros and put on their usual poor persecuted "I must bweak you" routine.

Poet

gingeralbino
06-30-2009, 03:49 PM
is this an on-line sim your using? I could pass hours and hours doing random fights if it is.
If it isnt, could you do Prince Naseem v Erik Morales please?
I would have loved that fight to happen. Would have been a war.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 03:55 PM
is this an on-line sim your using? I could pass hours and hours doing random fights if it is.
If it isnt, could you do Prince Naseem v Erik Morales please?
I would have loved that fight to happen. Would have been a war.

No, these are programs I purchased. $30 each if I remember right. I can run the Morales Vs. Naseem real quick. Take me a few minutes.

Poet

BattlingNelson
06-30-2009, 03:57 PM
is this an on-line sim your using? I could pass hours and hours doing random fights if it is.
If it isnt, could you do Prince Naseem v Erik Morales please?
I would have loved that fight to happen. Would have been a war.
Could be this:

http://download.cnet.com/Title-Bout-Championship-Boxing-2/3000-7427_4-10447155.html

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:09 PM
is this an on-line sim your using? I could pass hours and hours doing random fights if it is.
If it isnt, could you do Prince Naseem v Erik Morales please?
I would have loved that fight to happen. Would have been a war.

Here are the results of Morales Vs. Hamed:


Title Bout II

Erik Morales 82-18-0 with 63 stoppages
Naseem Hamed 18-82-0 with 11 stoppages


Data Boxing

Erik Morales 63-34-3 with 28 stoppages
Naseem Hamed 34-63-3 with 11 stoppages

Brockton Lip
06-30-2009, 04:09 PM
I can easily do this with any match up anyone cares to come up with. In fact I was considering doing a tournament for each "old-school-eight" weight classes where the top 21 fighters (selected by me) fight each other 100 times each.

Poet

Wow that would be completely awesome. I'd definitely have to give some props for that:boxing:.

bklynboy
06-30-2009, 04:11 PM
It won't: The Klit-Lickers will just say the programs are biased against Eastern-Euros and put on their usual poor persecuted "I must bweak you" routine.

Poet

These projections can't silence anybody or prove anything because it isn't working with objective figures.

Let's take something simple. How much power did Marciano have? Or Foreman? We don't know. If we had sensors and data of them (and 1000s of other fighters) hitting heavy bags and pads we might have an idea of their power in a real fight. And this is something relatively easy to quantify. What about something much more difficult such as keeping focus and determination while losing, allowing you to capitalize on a mistake and turn the fight around?

These simulations mean nothing and prove nothing. The only thing they're good for is to give us more to talk and think about.

bklynboy
06-30-2009, 04:14 PM
These simulations mean nothing and prove nothing. The only thing they're good for is to give us more to talk and think about.

And before I seem ungrateful let me thank Poet for running the simulations and posting them here.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:18 PM
If anyone wants to purchase these simulations themselves here are the links:


Title Bout 2.5

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/joomla/downloads-tbcb/gamedownloads-tbcb.html


Data Boxing

http://www.downeygames.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=185

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:21 PM
These projections can't silence anybody or prove anything because it isn't working with objective figures.

Let's take something simple. How much power did Marciano have? Or Foreman? We don't know. If we had sensors and data of them (and 1000s of other fighters) hitting heavy bags and pads we might have an idea of their power in a real fight. And this is something relatively easy to quantify. What about something much more difficult such as keeping focus and determination while losing, allowing you to capitalize on a mistake and turn the fight around?

These simulations mean nothing and prove nothing. The only thing they're good for is to give us more to talk and think about.

Quite right: Anyone who's really gung-ho for their guy isn't going to be swayed by the results of a computer simulation. It DOES make for some fun and discussion though and the results really aren't going to be too out of line with reality. For example, Title Bout accurately predicted the outcome of the Vitali Klitschko Vs. Danny Williams bout: 7th round stoppage (I ran it about an hour before the actual fight).

Poet

gingeralbino
06-30-2009, 04:25 PM
Here are the results of Morales Vs. Hamed:


Title Bout II

Erik Morales 82-18-0 with 63 stoppages
Naseem Hamed 18-82-0 with 11 stoppages


Data Boxing

Erik Morales 63-34-3 with 28 stoppages
Naseem Hamed 34-63-3 with 11 stoppages

Thats kind of what i was expecting. The first one was a bit too one sided for Erik, but that may be me blinded by my love for the prince! I was curious to see how many KOs they gave, concidering Naz had insane power and Erik had equally an insane chin, Naz had a good chin too, and Erik could KO fighters right left and centre over 12 rounds of constant hits.
Cheers for running that.

You should def. do that tournament with all the fighters u were talking about. Would be interesting to see the results.

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:27 PM
Thats kind of what i was expecting. The first one was a bit too one sided for Erik, but that may be me blinded by my love for the prince! I was curious to see how many KOs they gave, concidering Naz had insane power and Erik had equally an insane chin, Naz had a good chin too, and Erik could KO fighters right left and centre over 12 rounds of constant hits.
Cheers for running that.

You should def. do that tournament with all the fighters u were talking about. Would be interesting to see the results.

While I don't have any issue with Data Boxing's won-loss results it doesn't seem to have the appropriate number of stoppages so overall I prefer Title Bout II.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
06-30-2009, 04:43 PM
These projections can't silence anybody or prove anything because it isn't working with objective figures.

Let's take something simple. How much power did Marciano have? Or Foreman? We don't know. If we had sensors and data of them (and 1000s of other fighters) hitting heavy bags and pads we might have an idea of their power in a real fight. And this is something relatively easy to quantify. What about something much more difficult such as keeping focus and determination while losing, allowing you to capitalize on a mistake and turn the fight around?

These simulations mean nothing and prove nothing. The only thing they're good for is to give us more to talk and think about.

Also, if anyone would like to read up on these programs I uploaded the manuals for them:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0N1OC2YO

fight_professor
06-30-2009, 05:46 PM
ali stops him every time. wlad is a good HW but he doesnt deserve being mentioned in the same sentence as ali.

Real talk.

These EE fighters stand no chance against Ali. :afro:

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 04:16 AM
Poet, is it possible to run through Vitali vs ALi?

The_Demon
07-21-2010, 04:57 AM
Prime ali would embarrass wlad

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 09:53 AM
Poet, is it possible to run through Vitali vs ALi?

Done! 100 fights.....Ali wins 94 with 44 stopages, Vitali wins 5 with 4 stoppages, and 1 draw :)

Poet

Stone Roses!
07-21-2010, 09:56 AM
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Stone Roses!
07-21-2010, 09:56 AM
Just testing if I was still on your ignore list.

Poet has come to his senses :dance:

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 10:03 AM
Done! 100 fights.....Ali wins 94 with 44 stopages, Vitali wins 5 with 4 stoppages, and 1 draw :)

Poet

:lol1: haha that made me laugh, thanks. :)

DarkTerror88
07-21-2010, 10:53 AM
How bout Marvelous Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Robinson at Middle weight. My top 2 middles. Id actually edge it to Hagler in this one.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 10:58 AM
:lol1: haha that made me laugh, thanks. :)

Just for sh1ts and giggles I ran Ali versus 20 prominent "Super" Heavyweights, 100 fights against each for 2,000 total fights. Results are ordered by Ali's winning percentage and are given as wins-losses-draws-pct. for Ali. On a side note I forgot that the program only saves the won-loss to text and I had to add in the stoppages manually and I cleared the results before I remembered so unfortunately stoppages aren't listed here.

Chris Arreola 99-1-0 .990
Samuel Peter 99-1-0 .990
David Haye 98-2-0 .980
Jameel McCline 97-1-2 .980
Lamon Brewster 97-2-1 .975
Vladimir Virchis 97-2-1 .975
Monte Barrett 97-3-0 .970
Joe Mesi 96-3-1 .965
Andrew Golota 96-3-1 .965
Michael Grant 95-3-2 .960
Shannon Briggs 95-5-0 .950
Nikolay Valuev 95-4-1 .955
Dominick Guinn 94-6-0 .940
Corrie Sanders 92-4-4 .940
Vitali Klitschko 92-5-3 .935
David Tua 92-8-0 .920
Sultan Ibragimov 91-7-2 .920
Wladimir Klitschko 87-5-8 .910
Riddick Bowe 83-14-3 .845
Lennox Lewis 83-14-3 .845
Total 1,875-93-32 .946

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 11:02 AM
How bout Marvelous Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Robinson at Middle weight. My top 2 middles. Id actually edge it to Hagler in this one.

No Problem!

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 11:02 AM
Just for sh1ts and giggles I ran Ali versus 20 prominent "Super" Heavyweights, 100 fights against each for 2,000 total fights. Results are ordered by Ali's winning percentage and are given as wins-losses-draws-pct. for Ali. On a side note I forgot that the program only saves the won-loss to text and I had to add in the stoppages manually and I cleared the results before I remembered so unfortunately stoppages aren't listed here.

Chris Arreola 99-1-0 .990
Samuel Peter 99-1-0 .990
David Haye 98-2-0 .980
Jameel McCline 97-1-2 .980
Lamon Brewster 97-2-1 .975
Vladimir Virchis 97-2-1 .975
Monte Barrett 97-3-0 .970
Joe Mesi 96-3-1 .965
Andrew Golota 96-3-1 .965
Michael Grant 95-3-2 .960
Shannon Briggs 95-5-0 .950
Nikolay Valuev 95-4-1 .955
Dominick Guinn 94-6-0 .940
Corrie Sanders 92-4-4 .940
Vitali Klitschko 92-5-3 .935
David Tua 92-8-0 .920
Sultan Ibragimov 91-7-2 .920
Wladimir Klitschko 87-5-8 .910
Riddick Bowe 83-14-3 .845
Lennox Lewis 83-14-3 .845
1875-93-32 .946


:lol1: :rofl:

Thanks for a good laugh. Chris Arreola started it off for me.

All I could imagine was a fat slob twisting clockwise/counter clockwise in the middle of the ring.......:lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 11:03 AM
:lol1: :rofl:

Thanks for a good laugh. Chris Arreola started it off........All I could imagine was a fat slob twisting clockwise/counter clockwise in the middle of the ring.......:lol1:

Yeah, Arreola didn't fair so well did he? :chuckle9:

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 11:13 AM
How bout Marvelous Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Robinson at Middle weight. My top 2 middles. Id actually edge it to Hagler in this one.

Ok! Robinson takes the series by 56-34-10 for a .610 winning percentage. Robinson had 22 stoppages, Hagler had 23 stoppages.

Poet

NChristo
07-21-2010, 12:03 PM
Riddick Bowe 83-14-3 .845
Lennox Lewis 83-14-3 .845


Interesting that these 2 would get the same, I regard them both as the most talented SHW as well. Seeing as they both got the same against Ali I'm guessing the program would say it's a 50/50 split if you did Bowe vs Lewis, could you try please ?.
I'd say Bowe beats Lewis 9 times out of 10 though.

Will probably get the program on pay day.

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 12:07 PM
Interesting that these 2 would get the same, I regard them both as the most talented SHW as well. Seeing as they both got the same against Ali I'm guessing the program would say it's a 50/50 split if you did Bowe vs Lewis, could you try please ?.
I'd say Bowe beats Lewis 9 times out of 10 though.

Will probably get the program on pay day.

To be honest, I never knew a program like this existed. :lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:08 PM
Interesting that these 2 would get the same, I regard them both as the most talented SHW as well. Seeing as they both got the same against Ali I'm guessing the program would say it's a 50/50 split if you did Bowe vs Lewis, could you try please ?.
I'd say Bowe beats Lewis 9 times out of 10 though.

Will probably get the program on pay day.

It's an awesome program and only around $30.00. You get THOUSANDS of fighters with it from ATGs all the way down to tomato cans. It's well worth the investment for any boxing fan :)

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:09 PM
To be honest, I never knew a program like this existed. :lol1:

There's actually TWO. I have both but I run these matchups on the better of the two progams :)

Poet

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 12:10 PM
There's actually TWO. I have both but I run these matchups on the better of the two progams :)

Poet

Does it do video simulation as well?

That would be amazing.............

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:10 PM
Does it do video simulation as well?

That would be amazing.............

No, just a generic one showing action......the blow by blow commentary is extremely detailed though.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:15 PM
Interesting that these 2 would get the same, I regard them both as the most talented SHW as well. Seeing as they both got the same against Ali I'm guessing the program would say it's a 50/50 split if you did Bowe vs Lewis, could you try please ?.
I'd say Bowe beats Lewis 9 times out of 10 though.

Will probably get the program on pay day.

Bowe edges it by 50-46-4. Bowe scored 40 stoppages, Lewis scored 21 stoppages. It only takes a few seconds to run a hundred fights.

Poet

SBleeder
07-21-2010, 12:17 PM
Which program is the better program? I will have to get one and waste even more time at work.

Can the program match up guys from different weight classes? I want to see how Eder Jofre would fare against George Foreman.

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 12:19 PM
No, just a generic one showing action......the blow by blow commentary is extremely detailed though.

Poet

I'm interested in knowing how all the variables are calculated.

For example how is punching power between two fighters judged?

Sugarj
07-21-2010, 12:20 PM
I must admit, I'm not a particular fan of this type of computer simulation but am grateful to Poet for opening an interesting thread. I do think that there are too many intangibles to consider such as a fighter's mood, stress, how well training has gone, how up for a fight someone is, if they have had personal problems in the leadup to the fight etc. Human beings are unpredictable and show different levels of motivation/form based on too many different variable factors.

Thats not to say that programs like these wont predict many matchups correctly, especially fights that have an obvious winner. When a fight appears to be genuine 50/50, I'd be very impressed for the computer to be much above 50% accurate though.

Remember a computer can only use the hard data that it is programmed with. A very simplifed example below shows why Ali would be favoured over Wlad:

Ali has fast hands
Ali has fast feet
Ali has excellent 15 round stamina
Ali has above average power
Ali is hard to hit with clean punches
Ali has an excellent chin
Ali absorbs body punches well
Ali maintains a good punch output per round
Ali is 6 ft 3
Ali has an 82 inch reach
Ali at his best weighs 212-215 Lbs


When you see how this compares with Wlad there is no suprise that Ali wins most matchups:

Wlad has quite fast hands
Wlad has quite fast feet
Wlad is known to have had stamina issues in the past
Wlad has excellent power
Wlad is quite hard to hit
Wlad has shown a suspect chin
Wlad has shown an average punch output per round
Wlad is 6 ft 6 (I forget exactly how tall he is)
Wlad at his best weighs 240Lbs


Of course the programs will be programmed with much more statistical data, punch outputs, punches slipped, ring records, accuracy, weight to name a few. But I still think that we get stuck on potential 50/50 fights.

I'll bet that Floyd wins the majority of matches in a computer matchup with Pacquiou! I see that fight as a genuine 50/50 at welterweight right now (in real life!). But Pacquiou's earlier stoppage losses will no doubt prove the determining statistical factor to the computer and the fact that he was outboxed by another orthodox fighter in Moralles.


For what its worth though, I do think prime Ali beats prime Wlad! I think we would be looking at a tough decision win, no walk in the park if I'm honest. Wlad does have skills and he would be well prepared by Manny Steward.

I think his chin would probably hold up to Ali's punches and he would be stronger in the clinches. His own technical prowess would pose some problems for Ali, but surely Ali's sheer speed, elusiveness (we are talking prime for prime here) and clear advantage in boxing ability, combination punching and workrate would be key to a points victory.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:25 PM
Which program is the better program? I will have to get one and waste even more time at work.

Can the program match up guys from different weight classes? I want to see how Eder Jofre would fare against George Foreman.

Title Bout Championship Boxing 2.5 is the better program. Data Boxing is the other one. Data Boxing is interesting for comparison purposes but Title Bout wins hands down on accuracy. If you get it let me know because I can send you some photos to use in it.

Poet

NChristo
07-21-2010, 12:25 PM
Bowe edges it by 50-46-4. Bowe scored 40 stoppages, Lewis scored 21 stoppages. It only takes a few seconds to run a hundred fights.

Poet

Thought it would be something like that, I think Bowe would give Lewis fits though and he had everything needed to beat him, probably just favoritism lol.

Seems accurate though on other fights, you said it predicted correctly the Vitali 7th rd ko and others right ?. Pretty cool.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm interested in knowing how all the variables are calculated.

For example how is punching power between two fighters judged?

The generic method is KO% adjusted for quality of opposition and just plain common sense.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:28 PM
Thought it would be something like that, I think Bowe would give Lewis fits and he had everything needed to beat him, probably just favoritism though lol.

Seems somewhat accurate though on other fights, you said it predicted correctly the Vitali 7th rd ko and other fights right ?. Pretty cool.

Yeah, that was the Vitali Klitschko Vs. Danny Williams fight. The program (in an older version) predicted a 7th round stoppage and that's what ended up happening IRL.

Poet

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 12:30 PM
Yeah, that was the Vitali Klitschko Vs. Danny Williams fight. The program (in an older version) predicted a 7th round stoppage and that's what ended up happening IRL.

Poet

Actually that's a good way of judging how accurate the program really is. You can run through many past fights and compare the outcomes.

Tyson-Douglas would be interesting............:lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:32 PM
I must admit, I'm not a particular fan of this type of computer simulation but am grateful to Poet for opening an interesting thread. I do think that there are too many intangibles to consider such as a fighter's mood, stress, how well training has gone, how up for a fight someone is, if they have had personal problems in the leadup to the fight etc. Human beings are unpredictable and show different levels of motivation/form based on too many different variable factors.

Actually those variables can be set. Also, each fighter has a rating based on his actual track record: Coming in out of shape, being a head case, taking fights on short notice, long layoffs between fights, ect. ect. ect. Depending on how the fighter is rated any factor like that has a chance of effecting his performance. For example, every time Andrew Golota fights there's a chance he'll have a mental meltdown during the fight.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:33 PM
Actually that's a good way of judging how accurate the program really is. You can run through many past fights and compare the outcomes.

Tyson-Douglas would be interesting............:lol1:

I can do that, even setting the intagibles like Tyson undertraining and Douglas being motivated.

Poet

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 12:35 PM
Actually those variables can be set. Also, each fighter has a rating based on his actual track record: Coming in out of shape, being a head case, taking fights on short notice, long layoffs between fights, ect. ect. ect. Depending on how the fighter is rated any factor like that has a chance of effecting his performance. For example, everytime Andrew Golota fights there's a chance he'll have a mental meltdown during the fight.

Poet

:lol1: :lol1:

hahahaha I couldn't help it.......

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:37 PM
:rofl: :rofl:

hahahaha I couldn't help it.......

Seriously! Unless I set it not to. I do these matchups prime for prime, top condition, with no outside "issues" though.....I want best on best when I run these :)

Poet

Tyson.
07-21-2010, 12:44 PM
What about the Ali that fought Berbick.

Does he still beat Wlad ?

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:46 PM
What about the Ali that fought Berbick.

Does he still beat Wlad ?

I can run it......I kind of doubt it though.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:49 PM
I'll bet that Floyd wins the majority of matches in a computer matchup with Pacquiou! I see that fight as a genuine 50/50 at welterweight right now (in real life!). But Pacquiou's earlier stoppage losses will no doubt prove the determining statistical factor to the computer and the fact that he was outboxed by another orthodox fighter in Moralles.

Actually I just ran it and Pacquiao is the clear winner by 68-26-6 over Mayweather. Manny had 46 stoppages, Floyd had 15.

Poet

BillyBoxing
07-21-2010, 12:55 PM
This is in response to the spait of "old-timer" bashing by certain parties over in NSB. Ali and Wlad are matched up 100 times on two different boxing simulation programs and here are the results:


Title Bout Boxing II

Muhammed Ali 94-5-1 with 87 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 5-94-1 with 4 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-7-2 with 60 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 7-91-2 with 2 stoppages


LOL!! RETARD!!

I don't argue with a guy arguing with boxing simulation programms...

So I repeat,RETARD!!!

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 12:58 PM
LOL!! RETARD!!

I don't argue with a guy arguing with boxing simulation programms...

So I repeat,RETARD!!!

Oh ho! We have another NSB troll slithering in! Don't argue with a trolling nuthugger from NSB: Just make fun of his pathetic ass :hahahaha9:

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:00 PM
What about the Ali that fought Berbick.

Does he still beat Wlad ?

Wlad wins that matchup 95-4-1 getting 55 stoppages. The 5 he didn't win are practically statistical enamolies (at some point Wlad slipped and busted his head).

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:02 PM
Actually that's a good way of judging how accurate the program really is. You can run through many past fights and compare the outcomes.

Tyson-Douglas would be interesting............:lol1:

The Tyson of Tokyo versus the Douglas of Tokyo has Douglas a clear winner by 75-24-1. Douglas scored 58 stoppages, Tyson 17.

Poet

Tyson.
07-21-2010, 01:12 PM
Actually I just ran it and Pacquiao is the clear winner by 68-26-6 over Mayweather. Manny had 46 stoppages, Floyd had 15.

Poet

Pacquiao has never been matched with an african-american slick fighter. The computer doesnt have the data to judge Pacquiao correctly.

BillyBoxing
07-21-2010, 01:14 PM
Actually that's a good way of judging how accurate the program really is. You can run through many past fights and compare the outcomes.

Tyson-Douglas would be interesting............:lol1:


LOL!!
Those programms are jokes.
Ali was beating cruiserweights,we and the computer don't know,if modern heavyweights hit harder or not,if they are weaker or tougher ect...

I don't like to compare modern eras to former eras...

I'm tempted to think modern heavyweights hits harder being on average biggers and heaviers.
But I don't know that,I didn't tested a Wlad's punch,a Brewster's punch and a Frazier's punch.
Fazier was a scary puncher,but maybe those giants hit harder.

Too much things the computer and us don't know.

This **** is plain garbage.

Get some help dudes.

IF...
If a guy like Chuck Wepner fought 15 rounds with Ali.
How Ali is going to ko Wlad 70% of the time??



I don't care about that PRIDE WAR BETWEEN EUROS AND AMERICANS.
Of course boxin medias are americans,so Ali is the legend,and Wlad the bum.

If Eddie would have beat Wlad,and defended his titles 10 times,he would be the next great(afro american champion)but they will NEVER praise a robotic eastern european.
They will never accept Wlad.

Wlad could walk on the water(he's almost doing it) he would still be a walk in the park for Ali and Dempsey according to BLIND AMERICAN("boxing")FANS.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:15 PM
Pacquiao has never been matched with an african-american slick fighter. The computer doesnt have the data to judge Pacquiao correctly.

Sorry dude, but the program doesn't give a rat's ass about the race of fighters.....and neither should you.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:16 PM
LOL!!
Those programms are jokes.
Ali was beating cruiserweights,we and the computer don't know,if modern heavyweights hit harder or not,if they are weaker or tougher ect...

I don't like to compare modern eras to former eras...

I'm tempted to think modern heavyweights hits harder being on average biggers and heaviers.
But I don't know that,I didn't tested a Wlad's punch,a Brewster's punch and a Frazier's punch.
Fazier was a scary puncher,but maybe those giants hit harder.

Too much things the computer and us don't know.

This **** is plain garbage.

Get some help dudes.

IF...
If a guy like Chuck Wepner fought 15 rounds with Ali.
How Ali is going to ko Wlad 70% of the time??



I don't care about that PRIDE WAR BETWEEN EUROS AND AMERICANS.
Of course boxin medias are americans,so Ali is the legend,and Wlad the bum.

If Eddie would have beat Wlad,and defended his titles 10 times,he would be the next great(afro american champion)but they will NEVER praise a robotic eastern european.
They will never accept Wlad.

Wlad could walk on the water(he's almost doing it) he would still be a walk in the park for Ali and Dempsey according to BLIND AMERICAN("boxing")FANS.

Your trolling is finished here.....have a nice day! :)

Poet

NChristo
07-21-2010, 01:20 PM
Okay. Battling Nelson Vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. Here are the results:


Title Bout II

Floyd Mayweather Jr. 89-9-2 with 64 stoppages
Battling Nelson 9-89-2 with 4 stoppages


Data Boxing

Floyd Mayweather Jr. 85-12-3 with 3 stoppages
Battling Nelson 12-85-3 with 4 stoppages

Interesting, Floyd stops Battling Nelson, who is one of if not the most durable boxer ever, 64 times out of 89?. He'd easily win on points but he's in no way stopping Nelson lol. 3 is more realistic in this case.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:25 PM
Interesting, Floyd stops Battling Nelson, who is one of if not the most durable boxer ever, 64 times out of 89?. He'd easily win on points but he's in no way stopping Nelson lol. 3 is more realistic in this case.

Remember, this is ALL stoppages: KOs, Ref waving off the fight, corner tossing in the towell, cuts, swelling, injuries, ect. This is being fought with a modern referee as well: One who is far more likely to wave a fight off over a fighter taking too much punishment then a ref from back in the 1920s. For the record, the referee I used was Mills Lane.

Poet

NChristo
07-21-2010, 01:30 PM
Remember, this is ALL stoppages: KOs, Ref waving off the fight, corner tossing in the towell, cuts, swelling, injuries, ect. This is being fought with a modern referee as well: One who is far more likely to wave a fight off over a fighter taking too much punishment then a ref from back in the 1920s. For the record, the referee I used was Mills Lane.

Poet

Ah k fair do's, Battling said that it was old school rules so that's what I thought you did it under, in this case then ye Nelson only using his chin wouldn't work so well lol.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:34 PM
Ah k fair do's, Battling said that it was old school rules so that's what I thought you did it under, in this case then ye Nelson only using his chin wouldn't work so well lol.

Referees, judges, and cornermen are all rated as well.

Poet

them_apples
07-21-2010, 01:36 PM
This is in response to the spait of "old-timer" bashing by certain parties over in NSB. Ali and Wlad are matched up 100 times on two different boxing simulation programs and here are the results:


Title Bout Boxing II

Muhammed Ali 94-5-1 with 87 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 5-94-1 with 4 stoppages


Data Boxing

Muhammed Ali 91-7-2 with 60 stoppages
Wladimir Klitschko 7-91-2 with 2 stoppages

these programs are kinda wack though. put Jack Johnson in with Ali and they just might give Johnson a good 40+ wins by KO.:alcoholic

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:39 PM
these programs are kinda wack though. put Jack Johnson in with Ali and they just might give Johnson a good 40+ wins by KO.:alcoholic

Very doubtful that will happen. I'll run it real quick for you.

Poet

them_apples
07-21-2010, 01:40 PM
Very doubtful that will happen. I'll run it real quick for you.

Poet

is there anyway you could hook me up with these programs?

I remember trying the title bout demo and being a bit disappointed at it's random ness.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:43 PM
these programs are kinda wack though. put Jack Johnson in with Ali and they just might give Johnson a good 40+ wins by KO.:alcoholic

Ali is the clear winner by a 67-23-10 margin. Ali scores 21 stoppages, Johnson only scores 8 stoppages.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:45 PM
is there anyway you could hook me up with these programs?

I remember trying the title bout demo and being a bit disappointed at it's random ness.

Actually I checked into that and unfortunately they have it set up to block the sharing of the liscense key. Which sucks major ass. You should try the demo of the newest version though (product without a liscence key = demo version).

Poet

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 01:47 PM
LOL!!
Those programms are jokes.
Ali was beating cruiserweights,we and the computer don't know,if modern heavyweights hit harder or not,if they are weaker or tougher ect...

I don't like to compare modern eras to former eras...

I'm tempted to think modern heavyweights hits harder being on average biggers and heaviers.
But I don't know that,I didn't tested a Wlad's punch,a Brewster's punch and a Frazier's punch.
Fazier was a scary puncher,but maybe those giants hit harder.

Too much things the computer and us don't know.

This **** is plain garbage.

Get some help dudes.

IF...
If a guy like Chuck Wepner fought 15 rounds with Ali.
How Ali is going to ko Wlad 70% of the time??



I don't care about that PRIDE WAR BETWEEN EUROS AND AMERICANS.
Of course boxin medias are americans,so Ali is the legend,and Wlad the bum.

If Eddie would have beat Wlad,and defended his titles 10 times,he would be the next great(afro american champion)but they will NEVER praise a robotic eastern european.
They will never accept Wlad.

Wlad could walk on the water(he's almost doing it) he would still be a walk in the park for Ali and Dempsey according to BLIND AMERICAN("boxing")FANS.

Blah Blah Blah episode I

Please continue to entertain me with your BS. If not go back to NSB where you belong.

:lol1: :rofl:

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:48 PM
Blah Blah Blah episode I

Please continue to entertain me with your BS. If not go back to NSB where you belong.

:lol1: :rofl:

He can't: I banned him from my threads :satan9:

Poet

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 01:51 PM
He can't: I banned him from my threads :satan9:

Poet

I bet he's sweating behind his computer now..........:lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 01:54 PM
I bet he's sweating behind his computer now..........:lol1:

Probably has his pants around his ankles pounding his pud cuz a he got a little attention :rofl9:

Poet

them_apples
07-21-2010, 02:33 PM
Pernell Whitaker vs Roberto Duran needs to be done

DarkTerror88
07-21-2010, 02:38 PM
Ok! Robinson takes the series by 56-34-10 for a .610 winning percentage. Robinson had 22 stoppages, Hagler had 23 stoppages.

Poet

Thank you sir. I think Hagler would be the most difficult guy Robinson could fight at Middleweight. But although both were very complete fighters, i feel Robinson has the edge in speed and mobility and thats the one way to cause problems for Marvelous.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 02:58 PM
Pernell Whitaker vs Roberto Duran needs to be done

It's pretty close: Whitaker edged it 49-36-15. Whitaker only scored 18 stoppages, Duran 17.

Poet

DarkTerror88
07-21-2010, 03:05 PM
joe louis vs rocky marciano prime vs prime. not the old over the hill joe louis that fought marciano IRL
Also see what it says about Ali Frazier 1

them_apples
07-21-2010, 03:09 PM
It's pretty close: Whitaker edged it 49-36-15. Whitaker only scored 18 stoppages, Duran 17.

Poet

hmmm...I can't see Whitaker stopping Duran at any point in time.

My pick would be Duran but Either one of them winning is acceptable imo.

Sugarj
07-21-2010, 03:22 PM
Hi Poet,

I must admit, it is interesting that the computer favours Pacquiou over Mayweather. I suppose Floyd did struggle a bit with southpaws Zab Judah and Demarcus Corley and you would have to say that Pac is a fair bit better than these two.

I guess one litmus test for the program is to now see how Floyd and Pac actually do when they do meet.....which they surely will eventually.

Is the program updated on a regular basis to take into account active fighters most recent performances?

$BloodyNate$
07-21-2010, 03:30 PM
good **** poet.
Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler?

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Hi Poet,

I must admit, it is interesting that the computer favours Pacquiou over Mayweather. I suppose Floyd did struggle a bit with southpaws Zab Judah and Demarcus Corley and you would have to say that Pac is a fair bit better than these two.

I guess one litmus test for the program is to now see how Floyd and Pac actually do when they do meet.....which they surely will eventually.

Is the program updated on a regular basis to take into account active fighters most recent performances?

I believe it is.....it does have a function to connect to the site to update fighters.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 03:35 PM
joe louis vs rocky marciano prime vs prime. not the old over the hill joe louis that fought marciano IRL
Also see what it says about Ali Frazier 1

Louis Vs. Marciano was a surprising wipeout in favor of Louis: 84-15-1, 55 stoppages for Louis and 14 for Marciano......there were a BUNCH of cut stoppages against Marciano.

Replaying the "Fight Of The Century" with Frazier and Ali in the same conditions they were IRL Frazier edged it 56-42-2. Frazier scored 42 stoppages, Ali 32.

Poet

Toney616
07-21-2010, 03:37 PM
How about James Toney vs Bernard Hopkins at mw?

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 04:05 PM
good **** poet.
Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler?

Hagler wins clearly 64-23-13, Hagler gets 19 stoppages, Hopkins 10.


How about James Toney vs Bernard Hopkins at mw?

Hopkins edges it 51-42-7. Hopkins scores 15 stoppages, Toney 18.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 04:16 PM
In response to the butt hurt trolls who made the other thread, let me say that the fighters' traits are rated by boxing historians (ie. proffesionals who actually know wtf they're talking about as opposed to NSB trolls) not by me. The only thing I'm setting is the conditions (prime vs. prime, both fighters in top condition, 15 round fights). The only matchups where I varied was Ali - Frazier where I set the fighters condition as they were for the real Fight Of The Century, and the Tyson - Douglas matchup where I specifically said I was setting the conditions for as they pertained the real fight in Tokyo. I'm assuming MagicRetard is upset because I didn't put a 60+ year old Parkinsons suffering Ali in with a Prime Wlad.

Poet

DarkTerror88
07-21-2010, 04:29 PM
In response to the butt hurt trolls who made the other thread, let me say that the fighters' traits are rated by boxing historians (ie. proffesionals who actually know wtf they're talking about as opposed to NSB trolls) not by me. The only thing I'm setting is the conditions (prime vs. prime, both fighters in top condition, 15 round fights). The only matchups where I varied was Ali - Frazier where I set the fighters condition as they were for the real Fight Of The Century, and the Tyson - Douglas matchup where I specifically said I was setting the conditions for as they pertained the real fight in Tokyo. I'm assuming MagicRetard is upset because I didn't put a 60+ year old Parkinsons suffering Ali in with a Prime Wlad.

Poet
lol Amen to that.
I actually met Frazier a few years back, when he was still training. He hit me with a left hook with gloves on for target practice cuz i had my right too low. He knocked me out cold. They still got it.

Tyson.
07-21-2010, 04:45 PM
Ken Norton Vs Joe Frazier

NChristo
07-21-2010, 04:52 PM
You probably getting annoyed with all the requests but could you do Eder Jofre vs Ruben Olivares.

Jofre is without a doubt one of the best boxers I've ever seen but how does he fare against the great Bantams from different eras, would like to see what Fighting Harada and Olivares comes out like as well.

Then I'll stop bugging you lol.

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 05:04 PM
Ken Norton Vs Joe Frazier

Lopsided in favor of Frazier. 86-14-0 with 83 stoppages for Frazier and 14 stoppages for Norton.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
07-21-2010, 05:06 PM
You probably getting annoyed with all the requests but could you do Eder Jofre vs Ruben Olivares.

Jofre is without a doubt one of the best boxers I've ever seen but how does he fare against the great Bantams from different eras, would like to see what Fighting Harada and Olivares comes out like as well.

Then I'll stop bugging you lol.

Jofre wins easily 82-18-0. Jofre scored 71 stoppages and Olivares scored 12.

Olivares edged out Harada by a score of 56-40-4. Olivares had 41 stoppages and Harada had 27.

Poet

Vadrigar.
07-21-2010, 05:50 PM
lol Amen to that.
I actually met Frazier a few years back, when he was still training. He hit me with a left hook with gloves on for target practice cuz i had my right too low. He knocked me out cold. They still got it.

I would like to know more..........continue please :)

GameGod
07-22-2010, 05:59 PM
I don't think that these computer programs factor in enough and make the perfect match-ups, but I agree with the verdict of Ali vs. Wladimir Klitschko. An Ali Unanimous Decision or late KO every time.

Jim Jeffries
07-22-2010, 09:25 PM
How about

Jack Johnson vs Ali
George foreman vs Tyson
Marciano vs Frazier
Liston vs Lennox Lewis?

TIA.

Ziggy Stardust
07-22-2010, 10:52 PM
How about

Jack Johnson vs Ali
George foreman vs Tyson
Marciano vs Frazier
Liston vs Lennox Lewis?

TIA.

I did Ali - Johnson yesterday:
Ali is the clear winner by a 67-23-10 margin. Ali scores 21 stoppages, Johnson only scores 8 stoppages.

I'll get you the others in the morning :)

Poet

Toney616
07-23-2010, 05:01 AM
Hopkins edges it 51-42-7. Hopkins scores 15 stoppages, Toney 18.
Poet
Thanks for this, shame this fight never happened though

Ziggy Stardust
07-23-2010, 10:30 AM
How about

Jack Johnson vs Ali
George foreman vs Tyson
Marciano vs Frazier
Liston vs Lennox Lewis?

TIA.

Okay! Results are in:

Foreman - Tyson is surprisingly close with Foreman edging it by a 53-45-2 mark. Foreman had 50 stoppages, Tyson 42. This is where the program is a bit in detail: It doesn't distiguish between short-armed swarming pressure fighters and long-armed punchers; it considers both to be "sluggers".

Liston - Lewis is also surprisingly razor close with Liston eking it out by a score of 50-46-4. Liston had 37 stoppages, Lewis 29 stoppages. I would have though Liston would win by a noticably bigger margin.

Marciano - Frazier was surprisingly lopsided in favor of Marciano by an 84-15-1 count. Marciano had 81 stoppages, Frazier had 13. This is one I thought would be a lot closer than it turned out.

Poet

Toney616
07-23-2010, 10:41 AM
What about Marvin Hagler vs Mike McCallum?

DarkTerror88
07-23-2010, 11:48 AM
I would like to know more..........continue please :)

What would you like to know?

Vadrigar.
07-23-2010, 11:51 AM
What would you like to know?

What happened after you were knocked out?

DarkTerror88
07-23-2010, 12:24 PM
I would like to know more..........continue please :)

I woke up a few minutes later and he said, thats why you keep your right hand up. We laughed, i was more prepared the next day, i kinda underestimated Smokin Joe cuz he was old, and the left hooks still hurt like a mofo but were barable.

Ziggy Stardust
07-23-2010, 01:01 PM
What about Marvin Hagler vs Mike McCallum?

This was pretty lopsided in favor Hagler by a score of 76-18-6. Hagler scored 20 stoppages, McCallum 10.

Poet

Toney616
07-23-2010, 02:41 PM
This was pretty lopsided in favor Hagler by a score of 76-18-6. Hagler scored 20 stoppages, McCallum 10.

Poet
Thanks again
I expected Hagler to be a slight favourite, but not by that amount. I can see Hagler outworking him to win a ud, I dont think he would ko McCallum though

Jim Jeffries
07-23-2010, 06:19 PM
Okay! Results are in:

Foreman - Tyson is surprisingly close with Foreman edging it by a 53-45-2 mark. Foreman had 50 stoppages, Tyson 42. This is where the program is a bit in detail: It doesn't distiguish between short-armed swarming pressure fighters and long-armed punchers; it considers both to be "sluggers".

Liston - Lewis is also surprisingly razor close with Liston eking it out by a score of 50-46-4. Liston had 37 stoppages, Lewis 29 stoppages. I would have though Liston would win by a noticably bigger margin.

Marciano - Frazier was surprisingly lopsided in favor of Marciano by an 84-15-1 count. Marciano had 81 stoppages, Frazier had 13. This is one I thought would be a lot closer than it turned out.

Poet

Thanks. I'd have Foreman edging Tyson a bit, about that for Liston Lewis and Frazier edging Marciano. Liston/Tyson would be another matchup I'd love to see.