View Full Version : Max Baer, What If He Didnt Clown Around?


0Rooster4Life0
06-30-2009, 03:50 AM
GDay All


It seems over time the younger generation forget Max Baer,


Having one of the biggest right hands i have ever seen, He also had one of the funniest personalities in the boxing world. He was a good fighter and Champion, But once you think about him you have to wonder, What would he have done if he focused like Mike Tyson...Joe Frazier....George Foreman did. Would he have a better Legacy? or do you think He reached his portential. It will be interesting to hear some of your thoughts.






Rooster

mickey malone
06-30-2009, 07:04 AM
Without the clowning, he'd have been in everyones top 10 AT H/W list..

Sugarj
06-30-2009, 11:39 AM
He had more potential than he showed, he should really have beaten Braddock. That said all roads would have lead to Joe Louis and there was no way that I think he could have beaten Louis. His defense was never amazing and I dont think his jab was as good as others of his generation.

In the Louis fight he certainly landed some big punches and had Louis in a little trouble but I doubt that even the grinning monster that massacred Primo Carnera and Max Schmelling would have actually won.

ATG? Not for me, but as a legendary character of the sport and possibly the second best heavyweight of the 30s he should be fondly remembered.

mickey malone
06-30-2009, 12:54 PM
He had more potential than he showed, he should really have beaten Braddock. That said all roads would have lead to Joe Louis and there was no way that I think he could have beaten Louis. His defense was never amazing and I dont think his jab was as good as others of his generation.

In the Louis fight he certainly landed some big punches and had Louis in a little trouble but I doubt that even the grinning monster that massacred Primo Carnera and Max Schmelling would have actually won.

ATG? Not for me, but as a legendary character of the sport and possibly the second best heavyweight of the 30s he should be fondly remembered.
Intelligent post... But the man did most of his training in bars & clubs..

I think, if dedicated... He'd be there... A slick boxer with Marciano's punch... If he'd trained properly... Regards MM

Southpaw16BF
06-30-2009, 02:46 PM
When he was in the mood to hurt a guy, Baer was relentless, determined, and heavy handed. But a lot of the time he was happy enough to swap punchers, have some laughs, collect his purse, then hit the clubs-especially if he was in a little over head or if he was injured. He just didnt care enough to be exceptional every time out and never took the sport serious.

With disicpline and dedication he could of achieved more, but even then I dont know about being a Top 10 Heavyweight of all time.

Baer's right hand was probaly the single hardest punch in the game, until Joe Louis arrived on the scene.It was never short or accurate, but when Bear telegraphed the punch and threw it looping most of the time. And Baer winged it with abandon forever chasing the KO, and 200+ dropped like flys.

Southpaw16BF
06-30-2009, 02:52 PM
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GJC
06-30-2009, 07:57 PM
He totally threw the Braddock fight away.

Gettin Jiggy
08-11-2009, 09:46 AM
man, baer could punch! thanks for the videos 16BF!

Benncollinsaad
08-11-2009, 09:48 AM
Hey, Max Schmelling beat Louis and Baer beat Schmelling. So why couldn't he beat Jou Louis?

Southpaw16BF
08-11-2009, 09:51 AM
Hey, Max Schmelling beat Louis and Baer beat Schmelling. So why couldn't he beat Jou Louis?

Becuase Boxing maths dosent work out. Unless your new to the sport you should know this.

Benncollinsaad
08-11-2009, 09:59 AM
Becuase Boxing maths dosent work out. Unless your new to the sport you should know this.

Lol. Baer had twice as strong punch as Schmelling, yet you say he couldn't do what Schmelling did. Maybe Schmelling was smarter, but we know in boxing everything can happen. Ever heard of the puncher's chance?

Southpaw16BF
08-11-2009, 10:12 AM
Lol. Baer had twice as strong punch as Schmelling, yet you say he couldn't do what Schmelling did. Maybe Schmelling was smarter, but we know in boxing everything can happen. Ever heard of the puncher's chance?

That wasn't the point. Of course Baer had a punchers chance, but you claimed due to Schmelling beating Louis, Baer should of beat Louis due to him beating Schmelling. And like I said boxing maths dosent work out like that.

No excuses, it was a great win for Schmelling, but Louis hardly trained for the fight and was to busy playing golf and sneaking out of camp. I feel a fully trained and motivated Louis would of got Schmelling out there without to much trouble in the first fight.

I'd also say although Baer was a bigger puncher, Schmelling was a smarter fighter, and worked his gameplan to perfection against Louis the first time.

Going into the Louis fight, Baer was belived to be very nervous and Jack Demspey had to give him a pep talk of sort. And Baer knew only one way to fight and that was to stand and trade punchers, which had worked in the past.

But Louis just destroyed him with ease, in argubaly his best ever display.
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Southpaw Stinger
08-11-2009, 11:58 AM
Without the clowning he wouldn't have been Max Baer!

Ziggy Stardust
08-11-2009, 12:20 PM
When he was in the mood to hurt a guy, Baer was relentless, determined, and heavy handed. But a lot of the time he was happy enough to swap punchers, have some laughs, collect his purse, then hit the clubs-especially if he was in a little over head or if he was injured. He just didnt care enough to be exceptional every time out and never took the sport serious.

With disicpline and dedication he could of achieved more, but even then I dont know about being a Top 10 Heavyweight of all time.

Baer's right hand was probaly the single hardest punch in the game, until Joe Louis arrived on the scene.It was never short or accurate, but when Bear telegraphed the punch and threw it looping most of the time. And Baer winged it with abandon forever chasing the KO, and 200+ dropped like flys.

Not only that, but contrary to what the "Cinderella Man" portrayed, Baer WAS effected by killing three men in the ring. He had enough of a happy-go-lucky personality to get past it somewhat but I think it DID make him more of a clown in the ring in the long-run as those deaths were always in the back of his mind.

Poet

Obama
08-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Not only that, but contrary to what the "Cinderella Man" portrayed, Baer WAS effected by killing three men in the ring. He had enough of a happy-go-lucky personality to get past it somewhat but I think it DID make him more of a clown in the ring in the long-run as those deaths were always in the back of his mind.

Poet

3? Name 'em.

Southpaw16BF
08-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Not only that, but contrary to what the "Cinderella Man" portrayed, Baer WAS effected by killing three men in the ring. He had enough of a happy-go-lucky personality to get past it somewhat but I think it DID make him more of a clown in the ring in the long-run as those deaths were always in the back of his mind.

Poet

Cinderella Man was a pretty bogus movie, but Russell Crowe claimed if there was no good or bad guy there was no movie, so for the movie Max was portrayed as the bad guy.

But no excuses, they portrayed Baer as vicious killer, who bragged about it. Which cound't be further from the truth, Baer was very distraught by killing someone and cryed about it. He paid for the children's colleage fee's.

Most also belive Baer was the main reason why Ernie Schaaf died, after the fight Schaaf claimed of head pains. Five months after the Baer fight, on February 11, 1933, Schaaf died in the ring after taking a left jab from the Italian behemoth Primo Carnera. Carnera was vilified as a "man killer", and two sports writers (Grantland Rice and Jimmy Cannon) claimed that Schaaf had died as a result of damage previously inflicted by Baer.

The majority of sports editors noted,[10] however, that an autopsy later revealed Schaaf had meningitis, a swelling of the brain, and was still recovering from a severe case of influenza when he touched gloves with Carnera. Schaaf's obituary stated that "just before his bout with Carnera

Hear's what Baer son said
My father cried about what happened to Frankie Campbell. He had nightmares. In reality, my father was one of the kindest, gentlest men you would ever hope to meet. He treated boxing the way today's professional wrestlers do wrestling: part sport, mostly showmanship. He never deliberately hurt anyone

Southpaw16BF
08-11-2009, 01:37 PM
3? Name 'em.

This is incorrect on Poet's behalf. Baer killed Frankie Campbell, and most belive it was him who killed Ernie Schaaf, although Schaaf was never quite the same after that bout. He complained frequently of headaches[citation needed], and his ring performance was mercurial in succeeding bouts. Five months after the Baer fight, on February 11, 1933, Schaaf died in the ring after taking a left jab from the Italian behemoth Primo Carnera. Carnera was vilified as a "man killer", and two sports writers (Grantland Rice and Jimmy Cannon) claimed that Schaaf had died as a result of damage previously inflicted by Baer.

So it was actually two not THREE.

The Iron Man
08-11-2009, 03:23 PM
I dont think he could ever be a top 10 heavyweight, but he could have achieved more. Saying that tho he wouldnt have been the same Max Baer we all know.

As for killing people in the ring, he only killed one and was highly affected by this as stated by other posters, he gave some future fight purses to Campbells family.

TheGreatA
08-11-2009, 04:14 PM
He would have most certainly beaten Braddock but Louis would have always got to him unless Baer greatly improved on his boxing skill which he didn't.

The Iron Man
08-11-2009, 04:31 PM
He would have most certainly beaten Braddock but Louis would have always got to him unless Baer greatly improved on his boxing skill which he didn't.

Although that would have destroyed one of boxing's greatest stories!.

Ziggy Stardust
08-11-2009, 05:42 PM
This is incorrect on Poet's behalf. Baer killed Frankie Campbell, and most belive it was him who killed Ernie Schaaf, although Schaaf was never quite the same after that bout. He complained frequently of headaches[citation needed], and his ring performance was mercurial in succeeding bouts. Five months after the Baer fight, on February 11, 1933, Schaaf died in the ring after taking a left jab from the Italian behemoth Primo Carnera. Carnera was vilified as a "man killer", and two sports writers (Grantland Rice and Jimmy Cannon) claimed that Schaaf had died as a result of damage previously inflicted by Baer.

So it was actually two not THREE.

Interesting.....most of the articles I remember reading in Ring Magazine back in the '90s would quote three not two including Schaaf among them.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
08-11-2009, 05:43 PM
3? Name 'em.

1. President Hussein
2. Nancy Pelosi
3. Harry Reid

Southpaw16BF
08-11-2009, 05:47 PM
Interesting.....most of the articles I remember reading in Ring Magazine back in the '90s would quote three not two including Schaaf among them.

Poet

Well he didn't actually kill Schaaf, Schaaf would carry on to fight, but most belive it was his fight with Baer that did the damage. I explain it better in one of my previous post's.

Ziggy Stardust
08-11-2009, 05:49 PM
Well he didn't actually kill Schaaf, Schaaf would carry on to fight, but most belive it was his fight with Baer that did the damage. I explain it better in one of my previous post's.

I understand that.....those same articles would point out that the real damage was done in the Baer fight.

Poet

TheGreatA
08-11-2009, 06:18 PM
Baer and Schaaf were having a close fight until the 10th round when Baer flattened Schaaf right before the bell. Schaaf was out cold and had to be carried out.

Against Carnera, as can be seen on the film, he was knocked out by a jab and collapsed. Schaaf supposedly suffered from a previous brain injury which may have very well been caused by Max Baer.

The reason Baer became a "clown" is due to the way he killed Frankie Campbell in the ring, a KO not unlike Emile Griffith's against Benny Paret. Campbell was out on his feet yet Baer kept hammering him with punches until the fight was stopped.

According to his brother Buddy Baer, the clowning started after his fight against Campbell, especially when Max would have his opponent in trouble similarly to how he had Campbell in trouble. He would hold back and taunt his opponents instead.

Before the Campbell fight Max Baer may have even been too wild, with little regard for the rules. He had been disqualified two times.

Caesar
08-13-2009, 03:30 AM
baer was surely one of the best punchers and a "clown" in and outside the ring, i don't think he would have more potential, when he don't would be so funny

JB16
10-10-2009, 04:45 PM
Ray Arcel once said of Max Baer ''I loved the big guy, he was a big kid who never grew up and every time I was with him I felt twenty years younger''

Baer never quite took boxing seriouly, but when he was at his best and focused, he was a determined, ruthless and one of the hardest punchers of all time, his right hand was a sledgehammer.

Bear almost liked everyone he fought and never held a grudge, but there was one fighter he cound't stomach. ''Two Ton'' Tony Galento. Nobody ever really liked Galento, except the guys who worked at his saloon. Tony was a crude guy to put it in a light manner, who would resort to all sorts of fouls to win a fight.

At the weigh in of Galento and Baer, Galento shouted his extremly abusive mouth off. He would call Max a yellow bum and prosimed to make him quit when he got him into the ring.

Baer's face was flushed, Ray Arcel would dig his his fingers into Baer's rib saying ''Don't let him get your goat, Max take care of him later tonight'' But Baer was riled up and he growled at Galento ''No you won't you fat slob, you're the one who's going to quit''

And Max kept to his word. In the fight Galento was as foul as ever, he butted, heeled, bit and ripped at Max's face with the lace of his gloves. But Baer fought with a savage fury and chopped ''Two Ton' to pieces. Baer really did want to kill Galento that night.

Galento had also angered Baer leading up to the fight, by sending him a postcard showing to scraggy, unkempt bears pawing for one another, across which he had written, ''Max and Buddy and this goes for your whole family, you bums''!

The grudge fight drew 22,711 fans to the ball park and Galento was actually the favourite going into the fight, due to the strength of knocking Joe Louis down in there title fight and his savage victory over Lou Nova, Baer had been stopped by Nova 12 months earlier. Galento also claims to have had trouble with his brother leading up to the fight, saying his brother threw a beer glass at him, due to a ticket dispute.

The fight ended with Galento, a bleeding, chopped down hulk sitting in his corner refusing to come out for the 8th round.

And if you watch the fight, you can see Baer and Galento cursing each other constanley through out the fight.

Galento never really had no interest in training, Galento's idea of roadwork was to sit in the car and smoke a cigar while his sparring parthers got themselves into shape. Why he asked reporters who came upon the scene ''should I pay these bums all that good folding money and do all the work myself''?

When one bored writer referred to the not-too distant preference of Gene Tunney for reading Shaw, Samuel Butler and Shakespeare while in training camp, Galento frowned, thought for a moment and said ''Shakespeare? I aint never hearda him. He must be one of dem European bums, sure as hell I'll moider that bum''

JB16
10-10-2009, 04:51 PM
Ray Arcel once remembered that there was one night were there was no clowning from Baer. The night he destroyed Max Schmeling in 1933. There was no clowning around that night remembered Arcel, Baer showed everything it takes to make a champion said Arcel ''Speed, Strength, courage and a lethal punch''

It would of been very interesting to see if Baer would of took every fights as serious as the Schmeling fight, were he just destroyed a world class heavyweight who would go on to take the scalp of the unbeaten Joe Louis.

Jack Dempsey once said of Baer, after Baer had him to the body in a sparring session, ''I have never been hit that hard by anybody''

I have plenty of more stories and facts on both Baer and Galento, but I would be here all night posting, so hopefully I can share them over the coming weeks and months.