View Full Version : robinson in leonard's era & vice versa


talip bin osman
06-22-2009, 01:01 PM
what if you drop ray robinson in ray leonard's era?

how would he fare with the likes of hagler, hearns, benitez & duran?

how would ray leonard on the other hand fare with lamotta, basilio, fulmer & gavilan?

who would have a tougher time?

Sugarj
06-22-2009, 01:12 PM
For me they were near as dammit as good as each other, I'd just shade the edge to Robinson in overall ability. Robinson had the better record but I think Leonard had slightly the better contempories. They would have both faired well in each other's era and no doubt had the same problems with the same fighters!!!

Robinson would have had similar problems with Duran as with La Motta. I also think Hearn's reach would give him a tough fight, but no doubt Robinson too would have stopped him late. Benitez? A late rounds stoppage I think.

As for Hagler, we never saw him fight Leonard at his peak in 1984/85 but I'd favour Robinson to shade a close points victory here.

Basilio and Fulmer would give Leonard tough fights, but I'd have said Robinson fought these guys past his peak. A peak Leonard would do better in my opinion.

1SILVA
06-22-2009, 06:44 PM
what if you drop ray robinson in ray leonard's era?

how would he fare with the likes of hagler, hearns, benitez & duran?

how would ray leonard on the other hand fare with lamotta, basilio, fulmer & gavilan?

who would have a tougher time?

Robinson was better than anyone in Leonard's era. That being said, I'd rank Leonard as the second greatest welter behind Robinson

Obama
06-23-2009, 01:06 AM
Robinson was undefeated as a Welterweight against Angott, Armstrong, Zivic, and Gavilan. UNDEFEATED. And in no fight was he behind late and needed a KO to win. Leonard on the other hand was 1-1 against Duran at Welterweight, KOed Hearns late in a fight he was clearly about to lose, and decisively beat Benitez. Problem about Benitez is he wasn't better than any of the top guys Robinson beat at Welterweight. At Welterweight I'd also have to rate Gavilan over Duran, a man Robinson beat twice. So Leonard holds the single best Welterweight win in Hearns, but look how he accomplished it. He even made Hearns come into the fight underweight in order to get the paycheck he deserved. Then where was the rematch? 8 years later, 3 weight divisions later.

As for Middleweight accomplishments, Leonard "beat" a post prime Hagler, while Robinson beat prime versions of LaMotta (x5), Olson (x4), Fullmer, Turpin, and Basilio. Half those wins coming after he was past his prime. Who did a post prime Leonard beat besides a 38 year old Duran and Donny Lalonde who was fighting at a weight 7 lbs below what he should have just so Leonard could tie Tommy's division title record? When he stepped in the ring with a prime fighter (Terry Norris), he was given the business.

In short, Leonard couldn't hold a candle to what Robinson did. Comparing a post-prime Robinson to a prime Leonard would be more suitable.

Sugarj
06-23-2009, 07:56 AM
Great last post, although the answer didn't really deal with the actual question of how each would have done in each other's era.

As for actual accomplishments Robinson had a far more decorated career, but would welter Robinson do any better than welter Leonard against Duran and Hearns? Honestly I think we'd see similar results. Surely Duran would give Robinson a really tough fight and I can see Hearns outjabbing Robinson early with that huge reach of his and lightning fast fists.

No Leonard couldn't 'hold a candle to what Robinson did', Leonard's post prime was very short lived, but this doesn't mean that at their respective welterweight peaks there wasn't two athletes of similar ability who would shine in each era.

Obama
06-23-2009, 05:30 PM
Great last post, although the answer didn't really deal with the actual question of how each would have done in each other's era.

As for actual accomplishments Robinson had a far more decorated career, but would welter Robinson do any better than welter Leonard against Duran and Hearns? Honestly I think we'd see similar results. Surely Duran would give Robinson a really tough fight and I can see Hearns outjabbing Robinson early with that huge reach of his and lightning fast fists.

No Leonard couldn't 'hold a candle to what Robinson did', Leonard's post prime was very short lived, but this doesn't mean that at their respective welterweight peaks there wasn't two athletes of similar ability who would shine in each era.

Maybe my post wasn't direct enough, but I pretty much said Robinson overall fought better Welterweights, and he did it undefeated. HENCE, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to go undefeated against Duran, Benitez, and Hearns, even if he fought all of them twice. Hearns was the best of the group but he was always known to gas, didn't know how to hold on, and even despite the fact that he was a KO artist SRR was not a guy he would likely KO.

As for beating a post-prime Hagler, I'm sure Ray could have done it too. Leonard wasn't all that impressive in the fight, a fight that he would have officially lost if it had gone 15 rounds instead of 12. Hagler always could be out boxed, even in his younger years. Robinson had all the tools to do it, and Robinson had the ability to not fade like Leonard did.