talip bin osman
06-13-2009, 08:06 AM
how good they really were?
we always hear them not bcoz of who they really were but just bcoz of ray robinson...
im really curious about their claim to greatness...
how would they fare against the welterweights of the 80s & 90s?
what about against cotto, mosley & berto?
can the more knowlegeable posters in this section enlighten me about these guys?
06-13-2009, 10:15 AM
Fullmer was a middleweight, he was pretty one dimensional but suddenly turned into a boxer when he fought Basilio, but apart from that he usually came forward and bullied his opponents around on the inside. Most of the great middleweights would have beaten him IMO but his toughness and style could give some of them some trouble.
Basilio was IMO, the better fighter pound for pound even though he lost twice to Fullmer, the second time he was past his best. He was also a little one dimensional but man was he tough, he was one of the toughest fighters I've ever seen, the guy would fight through anything, he was also one of the most entertaining fighters I've seen, he was rarely in a boring fight because of his style, which was to come forward, put pressure and work his opponents over. I think he would have been competitive with most of the welterweights throughout history, giving them tough fights win or lose.
06-13-2009, 10:31 AM
Carmen Basilio was the smaller of the two, winning world titles at welterweight and middleweight. He picked up losses early on but by 1953 he had come into his own.
He had notable wins over welterweight champion Tony DeMarco in two great fights, beat another welterweight champ Johnny Saxton two out of three times, won a decision over an aging Ike Williams as well as Billy Graham, Art Aragon, Gil Turner, Don Jordan and others.
He is of course most known for beating Ray Robinson for the middleweight title, becoming a champion in two divisions. His first title try against Kid Gavilan ended in a close decision which could have gone either way.
Basilio was also possibly the most exciting fighter of all time, being involved in five Ring Magazine FOTY's from 1955 to 1959.
Gene Fullmer was a career middleweight who was known for his rough style of fighting, never above using headbutts, elbows or low blows. Aside from Robinson, he had wins over Carmen Basilio (x2), Paul Pender, Benny Paret, Spider Webb, Florentino Fernandez, Rocky Castellani, Gil Turner, Del Flanagan...
Fullmer won the middleweight title twice, once by beating Robinson, the second time against Basilio (the vacant NBA version of the middleweight title).
Fullmer was a brawler, a slugger, but he ran into an even tougher one against Dick Tiger who ended his reign as well as his career. Fullmer showed some underrated boxing ability in the rematch however, earning himself a draw.
Basilio was a pressure fighter whose main weapon was his left hook. He could be outboxed and outpointed from a distance but not outfought in close. Keeping him off of you was almost impossible and anyone who faced him had to be prepared for a tough fight.
I can't see Berto beating him, Cotto could with his versatility but I doubt it, Mosley on the other hand has what it takes to keep Basilio off although I can't see Basilio crumbling like Margarito did.
Fullmer was a middleweight and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was able to beat Pavlik, Sturm and Abraham. Not sure if today's referees would let him get away with as much though. As one referee remarked in the 1950's, there's no point in warning Fullmer for being dirty because it's the only way he knows how to fight.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V_UMwLP7MAE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V_UMwLP7MAE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BJliKCsQpsc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BJliKCsQpsc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>