View Full Version : New Best Case for Boxing


DonTaseMeBrah
06-10-2009, 11:56 PM
I effed up on my first poll question. More choices this time.

them_apples
06-11-2009, 12:14 AM
Marquez / Pac 3 would be my proffered, since I don't think Mayweather is in Pacquiao's league, especially after a layoff. He probably won't even beat Marquez but maybe thats just me underestimating him.

DonTaseMeBrah
06-11-2009, 12:15 AM
Marquez / Pac 3 would be my proffered, since I don't think Mayweather is in Pacquiao's league, especially after a layoff. He probably won't even beat Marquez but maybe thats just me underestimating him.

i dunno, i kind of like the last choice. valero knocks everybody out at 3 divisions. hahahaha! dont forget to vote brah.

jvsnypes
06-11-2009, 01:02 AM
Williams vs Berto would be a classic.Then the winner faces Cotto/Mosley, that would be too good to actually happen. But the mega fight of this time would be Cotto vs Mayweather.That's equilavent to Hearns vs Leonard. It would be a classic. Mayweather vs Mosley is another classic.This welterweight division of today could surpass those of the 80's if someone got these guys in the ring to face each other.It would be the complete resurrection of boxing.

them_apples
06-11-2009, 01:13 AM
Williams vs Berto would be a classic.Then the winner faces Cotto/Mosley, that would be too good to actually happen. But the mega fight of this time would be Cotto vs Mayweather.That's equilavent to Hearns vs Leonard. It would be a classic. Mayweather vs Mosley is another classic.This welterweight division of today could surpass those of the 80's if someone got these guys in the ring to face each other.It would be the complete resurrection of boxing.

Berto is going to get wooped once he fights any of the top dogs.

Little Mac
06-11-2009, 01:18 AM
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.....no homo.

Obama
06-11-2009, 02:29 AM
Marquez / Pac 3 would be my proffered, since I don't think Mayweather is in Pacquiao's league, especially after a layoff. He probably won't even beat Marquez but maybe thats just me underestimating him.

lol, you're out of touch with current boxing big time.

I'm up for laying down a bet.

Obama
06-11-2009, 02:43 AM
Williams vs Berto would be a classic.Then the winner faces Cotto/Mosley, that would be too good to actually happen. But the mega fight of this time would be Cotto vs Mayweather.That's equilavent to Hearns vs Leonard. It would be a classic. Mayweather vs Mosley is another classic.This welterweight division of today could surpass those of the 80's if someone got these guys in the ring to face each other.It would be the complete resurrection of boxing.

It's a classic, but it would have been legendary if it took place nearly a decade ago when it should have.

I don't see how the current WW division could compete with the 80s:

Ray Leonard
Tommy Hearns
Donald Curry
Wilfred Benitez
Simon Brown
Marlon Starling
Roberto Duran
Mark Breland
Lloyd Honeyghan

Too talented...current welters aren't even better than the WWs of the 90s. Keep in mind, Post-Prime Mosley is #1 WW right now, yet a prime Mosley in the 90s was clearly better.

DonTaseMeBrah
06-11-2009, 02:54 AM
It's a classic, but it would have been legendary if it took place nearly a decade ago when it should have.

I don't see how the current WW division could compete with the 80s:

Ray Leonard
Tommy Hearns
Donald Curry
Wilfred Benitez
Simon Brown
Marlon Starling
Roberto Duran
Mark Breland
Lloyd Honeyghan

Too talented...current welters aren't even better than the WWs of the 90s. Keep in mind, Post-Prime Mosley is #1 WW right now, yet a prime Mosley in the 90s was clearly better.


Nobody is touching that list brah. Talk about a murderer's row....

them_apples
06-11-2009, 03:28 AM
lol, you're out of touch with current boxing big time.

I'm up for laying down a bet.

Pac vs Mayweather? sure

i'm already got my bets full for the Marquez fight.

I'm 100% sure Pacquiao will pound Mayweather.

Obama
06-11-2009, 03:31 AM
Pac vs Mayweather? sure

i'm already got my bets full for the Marquez fight.

I'm 100% sure Pacquiao will pound Mayweather.

Man, never go to Vegas. :wow:

That fight is the second coming of Whitaker vs Chavez.

them_apples
06-11-2009, 03:32 AM
Man, never go to Vegas. :wow:

I'm serious, if the fight happens, and given I have pts left from the Marquez fight (which im 50/50 on) I'll go full in.

Obama
06-11-2009, 03:39 AM
I'm serious, if the fight happens, and given I have pts left from the Marquez fight (which im 50/50 on) I'll go full in.

When did you decide Pac definitely beats Mayweather, before or after the fights with DLH and Hatton?

them_apples
06-11-2009, 03:41 AM
When did you decide Pac definitely beats Mayweather, before or after the fights with DLH and Hatton?

just look at their competition, Pacquiao has fought ELITE competition. DLH and Hatton were just great for publicity, funny thing was, those 2 guys were some of the best names of Mayweathers resume which showed since they gave him all he could handle.

You think Mayweather can Hold Pacquiao off with one punch counters? Hatton was giving him hell for about 8 rounds. On top of that, he's been off for 14 months. I have a gut feeling Mayweather will get a cut in one of the Pacquiao or Marquez fights, and he won't be able to cope with it since he's always been a "pretty boy".

DonTaseMeBrah
06-11-2009, 03:45 AM
Pac vs Mayweather? sure

i'm already got my bets full for the Marquez fight.

I'm 100% sure Pacquiao will pound Mayweather.

thats a 50/50 fight.

Obama
06-11-2009, 03:51 AM
just look at their competition, Pacquiao has fought ELITE competition. DLH and Hatton were just great for publicity, funny thing was, those 2 guys were some of the best names of Mayweathers resume.

You think Mayweather can Hold Pacquiao off with one punch counters? Hatton was giving him hell for about 8 rounds. On top of that, he's been off for 14 months. I have a gut feeling Mayweather will get a cut in one of the Pacquiao or Marquez fights, and he won't be able to cope with it since he's always been a "pretty boy".

DLH and Hatton are 2 of the 5 best guys Floyd beat, but the bottom half not the top. Floyd fought elite competition when he beat Corrales and Castillo. Two guys he beat decisively. Pac on the other hand only beat elite competition when he faced an '03 Barrera and Marquez (who he never really beat in either fight). Those are their elite wins. Pac lost to a post-prime Morales (taking the last bit of greatness out of Morales in the process), then beat him after he was over the hill. An Over the hill Morales x2 and Barrera ('07) don't exactly trump Judah, prime Hatton, and post-prime but healthy JMW Champion Oscar. Pac beat versions of Hatton and DLH, but they were on par with Floyd's B list:

Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, DeMarcus Corley, Sharmba Mitchell, Carlos Baldomir

And for the record Floyd doesn't get cut cuz he doesn't get hit flush that often. But it's not like he's never coped with adversity. He broke his hand against Carlos Hernandez in like the 6 round (causing him to suffer the only officialy KD of his career), yet he managed to go the full 12.

them_apples
06-11-2009, 04:27 AM
DLH and Hatton are 2 of the 5 best guys Floyd beat, but the bottom half not the top. Floyd fought elite competition when he beat Corrales and Castillo. Two guys he beat decisively. Pac on the other hand only beat elite competition when he faced an '03 Barrera and Marquez (who he never really beat in either fight). Those are their elite wins. Pac lost to a post-prime Morales (taking the last bit of greatness out of Morales in the process), then beat him after he was over the hill. An Over the hill Morales x2 and Barrera ('07) don't exactly trump Judah, prime Hatton, and post-prime but healthy JMW Champion Oscar. Pac beat versions of Hatton and DLH, but they were on par with Floyd's B list:

Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, DeMarcus Corley, Sharmba Mitchell, Carlos Baldomir

And for the record Floyd doesn't get cut cuz he doesn't get hit flush that often. But it's not like he's never coped with adversity. He broke his hand against Carlos Hernandez in like the 6 round (causing him to suffer the only officialy KD of his career), yet he managed to go the full 12.

well, you can say Mayweather never beat Castillo the first time around, and I disagree that Corrales was better than DLH at 154, because he wasn't. Pacquiao would have made a fool of Corrales had they fought.

Let me point out that 03 Barrera is a prime Barrera. Morales was not at his best but Pacquiao still avenged his loss convincingly. Let me further point out that Barrera, Morales and Marquez are much better than one dimensional Corrales and Castillo. In other words, Floyd fought guys he knew he could beat. It's like if Pacquiao kept fighting Ricky Hatton's and David Diaz's over and over.

For the record, that was my point, when he does get a cut, he's not going to be ready - because he's never been cut before.

If you look at Pacquiaos record, it's got a lot more than just the Mexican trio. He would still be in the top 5 p4p even without those wins.

Like I said, if you think I'm wrong and if the fight ever happens i'll go full in. Mayweather is just not going to be able to handle a guy like Pacquiao. Pot shotting won't bother Pacquiao, the man's been in so many wars he laughs at these low punch per round WW's.

Obama
06-11-2009, 04:55 AM
well, you can say Mayweather never beat Castillo the first time around, and I disagree that Corrales was better than DLH at 154, because he wasn't. Pacquiao would have made a fool of Corrales had they fought.

Let me point out that 03 Barrera is a prime Barrera. Morales was not at his best but Pacquiao still avenged his loss convincingly. Let me further point out that Barrera, Morales and Marquez are much better than one dimensional Corrales and Castillo. In other words, Floyd fought guys he knew he could beat. It's like if Pacquiao kept fighting Ricky Hatton's and David Diaz's over and over.

For the record, that was my point, when he does get a cut, he's not going to be ready - because he's never been cut before.

If you look at Pacquiaos record, it's got a lot more than just the Mexican trio. He would still be in the top 5 p4p even without those wins.

Like I said, if you think I'm wrong and if the fight ever happens i'll go full in. Mayweather is just not going to be able to handle a guy like Pacquiao. Pot shotting won't bother Pacquiao, the man's been in so many wars he laughs at these low punch per round WW's.

You called Corrales and Castillo 1 dimensional, and you're telling me a prime Corrales wasn't an elite fighter.... Your bias is strong. Morales, Barrera, and MArquez are clearly better fighters, but when you take into account the versions that Pac beat, and the versions he lost to or should have lost to, it clearly swings in Mayweather's favor. As for the first Castillo fight, Mayweather had a torn rotator cuff. He shouldn't have even took the fight.

So what that Pac avenged his lost to Morales? He didn't beat the same man. Morales beats him 3/3 in his prime.

Pac's record may have more than the Mexican trio, but it doesn't trump Mayweather's B/B- department opponents. (List below based off criteria of actually beating fighters who mattered, so for example one of Floyd's tougher opponents (Augustus) wouldn't show up here)

Floyd:
'B' level wins:
Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, DeMarcus Corley, Sharmba Mitchell, Carlos Baldomir
'B-' level wins:
Gregorio Vargas, Carlos Hernandez, Arturo Gatti

Manny:
'B' level wins:
Chatchai Sasakul, Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Oscar Larios, David Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton
'B-' level wins:
Jorge Eliecer Julio, Hector Velazquez, Jorge Solis

But none of this has anything to do with why Manny won't beat Floyd. Manny won't win because he has no experience with a fighter remotely like Floyd. Floyd is a fast, slick, defensively gifted counter puncher. Manny has never fought anyone fast, slick, or defensively gifted. And against the best counter puncher Manny faced he failed to impress in both his outings against the man (Marquez). Manny has avoided guys like Mayweather his whole career, primarily Joan Guzman.

them_apples
06-11-2009, 03:30 PM
You called Corrales and Castillo 1 dimensional, and you're telling me a prime Corrales wasn't an elite fighter.... Your bias is strong. Morales, Barrera, and MArquez are clearly better fighters, but when you take into account the versions that Pac beat, and the versions he lost to or should have lost to, it clearly swings in Mayweather's favor. As for the first Castillo fight, Mayweather had a torn rotator cuff. He shouldn't have even took the fight.

So what that Pac avenged his lost to Morales? He didn't beat the same man. Morales beats him 3/3 in his prime.

Pac's record may have more than the Mexican trio, but it doesn't trump Mayweather's B/B- department opponents. (List below based off criteria of actually beating fighters who mattered, so for example one of Floyd's tougher opponents (Augustus) wouldn't show up here)

Floyd:
'B' level wins:
Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, DeMarcus Corley, Sharmba Mitchell, Carlos Baldomir
'B-' level wins:
Gregorio Vargas, Carlos Hernandez, Arturo Gatti

Manny:
'B' level wins:
Chatchai Sasakul, Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Oscar Larios, David Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton
'B-' level wins:
Jorge Eliecer Julio, Hector Velazquez, Jorge Solis

But none of this has anything to do with why Manny won't beat Floyd. Manny won't win because he has no experience with a fighter remotely like Floyd. Floyd is a fast, slick, defensively gifted counter puncher. Manny has never fought anyone fast, slick, or defensively gifted. And against the best counter puncher Manny faced he failed to impress in both his outings against the man (Marquez). Manny has avoided guys like Mayweather his whole career, primarily Joan Guzman.

The only guy that wasn't at his best was Morales in the 3rd fight. It get's played up to much that he was completely shot. In the 2nd fight, he was past his best - but it's easier to spot improvement from Pacquiao than it is a decline in Morales. Barrera was 29, was still prime and went on to do other things. Marquez is clearly prime and still is even at 35.

It's true Pacquiao has never fought a slick fighter, but Freddy Roach notoriously picks up the best sparring partners that match an event, in comparison to Mayweather Sr. who had Hatton fighting 6 ft tall southpaws who fought nothing like Pacquiao. I should also say that Mayweather has had trouble Zab Judah, a quick southpaw as well as aggression (castillo and Hatton) Those are 2 things that Pacquiao is simply head and shoulders above the opponent's that gave him trouble. In fact, the only reason Mayweather beat Judah was because Judah fades, not because Mayweather adjusted. The shoulder roll is pretty awkward to adjust to work against a southpaw. Manny has fought fast fighters, when you fight at 122-126 and 130..just about everyone is fast. This is why Floyd has trouble with quick guys, where as Manny has a warrior instinct and is willing to trade if they have equal speed.

I wasn't saying Corrales was a bad fighter, you misunderstood me. He just doesn't rank as high as Barrera, Morales and Marquez - whome are elites.

From the lists you showed, Pacquiaos resume does seem to dwarf Mayweathers. His "good wins" are in Mayweathers "great wins" category.

Obama
06-11-2009, 06:06 PM
The only guy that wasn't at his best was Morales in the 3rd fight. It get's played up to much that he was completely shot. In the 2nd fight, he was past his best - but it's easier to spot improvement from Pacquiao than it is a decline in Morales. Barrera was 29, was still prime and went on to do other things. Marquez is clearly prime and still is even at 35.

It's true Pacquiao has never fought a slick fighter, but Freddy Roach notoriously picks up the best sparring partners that match an event, in comparison to Mayweather Sr. who had Hatton fighting 6 ft tall southpaws who fought nothing like Pacquiao. I should also say that Mayweather has had trouble Zab Judah, a quick southpaw as well as aggression (castillo and Hatton) Those are 2 things that Pacquiao is simply head and shoulders above the opponent's that gave him trouble. In fact, the only reason Mayweather beat Judah was because Judah fades, not because Mayweather adjusted. The shoulder roll is pretty awkward to adjust to work against a southpaw. Manny has fought fast fighters, when you fight at 122-126 and 130..just about everyone is fast. This is why Floyd has trouble with quick guys, where as Manny has a warrior instinct and is willing to trade if they have equal speed.

I wasn't saying Corrales was a bad fighter, you misunderstood me. He just doesn't rank as high as Barrera, Morales and Marquez - whome are elites.

From the lists you showed, Pacquiaos resume does seem to dwarf Mayweathers. His "good wins" are in Mayweathers "great wins" category.

Sigh, aside from the fact that you're clearly trying to make more out of Pac's career than is really there (like pretending the 12th round of the first Pac fight didn't take the last bit of greatness out of Morales), you're simply oblivious to some typical facts:

1) Don't compare what Roach does to Mayweather Snr., Floyd Jr. trains with Roger Mayweather. Tell me about Roger, not Floyd Snr.

2) Zab Judah beats everyone in the opening rounds. He completely blitzed Floyd. Pacquiao can neither match the power or speed of Zab Judah, much less does he have the height and reach. And Pac does not blitz, he fights at a pace he can sustain through the duration. Floyd being a defensive fighter is naturally going to give away rounds by allowing a guy to gas who's operating at a pace he can't sustain.

3) I'm just going to ignore your statement about everyone being fast Super Featherweight and under. You know more about boxing than that point would indicate. I have all of Manny's meaningful fights on my computer, let me know if you want to see any.

4) Floyd doesn't have trouble with quick guys. Floyd is a patient fighter that fights every fight initially planning to go 12 rounds. He doesn't take risks he doesn't have to. You interpret moments when he doesn't throw many punches as him struggling. This is far from a reality. Floyd can control an entire round without throwing a single punch. It's not about winning every round. It's about winning the fight. Even in rounds he doesn't win, the other guy gets broken down. This happened in the Hatton fight, happened in the Chavez fight, happened in the N'dou fight, so on and so forth.

5) Come on now, how much of a hater are you to say that bit?

them_apples
06-12-2009, 09:27 PM
Sigh, aside from the fact that you're clearly trying to make more out of Pac's career than is really there (like pretending the 12th round of the first Pac fight didn't take the last bit of greatness out of Morales), you're simply oblivious to some typical facts:

1) Don't compare what Roach does to Mayweather Snr., Floyd Jr. trains with Roger Mayweather. Tell me about Roger, not Floyd Snr.

2) Zab Judah beats everyone in the opening rounds. He completely blitzed Floyd. Pacquiao can neither match the power or speed of Zab Judah, much less does he have the height and reach. And Pac does not blitz, he fights at a pace he can sustain through the duration. Floyd being a defensive fighter is naturally going to give away rounds by allowing a guy to gas who's operating at a pace he can't sustain.

3) I'm just going to ignore your statement about everyone being fast Super Featherweight and under. You know more about boxing than that point would indicate. I have all of Manny's meaningful fights on my computer, let me know if you want to see any.

4) Floyd doesn't have trouble with quick guys. Floyd is a patient fighter that fights every fight initially planning to go 12 rounds. He doesn't take risks he doesn't have to. You interpret moments when he doesn't throw many punches as him struggling. This is far from a reality. Floyd can control an entire round without throwing a single punch. It's not about winning every round. It's about winning the fight. Even in rounds he doesn't win, the other guy gets broken down. This happened in the Hatton fight, happened in the Chavez fight, happened in the N'dou fight, so on and so forth.

5) Come on now, how much of a hater are you to say that bit?

Stop calling me a hater, what if I went around saying you were a Pac hater for thinking Mayweather has a better resume than Pacquiao?

This is a discussion. I normally don;t bring up tons of excuses for Floyd, but considering you are calling Morales shot, you probably slipped in DLH being weight drained and Hatton not being the same cause of Mayweather as well.

so, if Pacquiaos wins are going to be discredited like that, it's only fair to start bringing in the guns against Mayweather as well.

I personally think Pacquiao will pound the living ****e out of Mayweather, because he fought much better competition. Floyd in my eyes has only fought guys he knows he can beat. He brings up too many excuses every time a good name is being mentioned. The only reason Mayweather is even fighting a guy like Marquez is because the Mayweather family is so obsessed with size and they think FMJ is to strong for him. He's gonna say that he beat the man that apparently beat Pacquiao (very hypocritical since the Castillo win was a gift) and then demand more Money than Pacquiao.

By the way, Pacquiao has more power and more speed than Zab Judah - let's get that straight. No way in hell can Zab out speed Pacquiao. There is also only half an inch in height difference.

Obama
06-12-2009, 10:37 PM
The above post is a clear case of delusions of grandeur. Pac isn't even half the fighter you hype him to be. I will gladly take your points when this fight goes down.

them_apples
06-12-2009, 10:43 PM
The above post is a clear case of delusions of grandeur. Pac isn't even half the fighter you hype him to be. I will gladly take your points when this fight goes down.

that description matches your view on Floyd Mayweather. Like I said, all my pts on the line, i'll bet with you come fight time, if he even beats Marquez.

If he loses I can expect you to say it wasn't the same Mayweather.

Obama
06-12-2009, 11:19 PM
that description matches your view on Floyd Mayweather. Like I said, all my pts on the line, i'll bet with you come fight time, if he even beats Marquez.

If he loses I can expect you to say it wasn't the same Mayweather.

Mayweather isn't losing to Marquez...I don't care what version of Floyd Mayweather shows up. It's not happening. Wouldn't be surprised if he stopped Marquez late either. But at the very least, he wins a wide UD.

them_apples
06-12-2009, 11:24 PM
Mayweather isn't losing to Marquez...I don't care what version of Floyd Mayweather shows up. It's not happening. Wouldn't be surprised if he stopped Marquez late either. But at the very least, he wins a wide UD.

nah that won't happen, he's not KOing him. a win Maybe, but Mayweather ain't Koing **** when a good fighter steps in the ring. He had a hard enough time with human punching bag Hatton. Oscar pretty much laughed at his punches even when he got hit flush.

Jim Jeffries
06-12-2009, 11:26 PM
nah that won't happen, he's not KOing him. a win Maybe, but Mayweather ain't Koing **** when a good fighter steps in the ring. He had a hard enough time with human punching bag Hatton. Oscar pretty much laughed at his punches even when he got hit flush.

It's funny how Floyd only had 4 stoppages in his 11 fights above 130 before facing Hatton and was considered pretty feather fisted by most. One fight with Ricky and all of a sudden People have him stopping JMM, Pac, even Cotto.:lol1::lol1:

A fight where Ricky was eating right hands ALL night till he went full speed into a ring post (helped by Floyd's left hook of course.)

Obama
06-12-2009, 11:32 PM
nah that won't happen, he's not KOing him. a win Maybe, but Mayweather ain't Koing **** when a good fighter steps in the ring. He had a hard enough time with human punching bag Hatton. Oscar pretty much laughed at his punches even when he got hit flush.

The difference in weight between Floyd and Oscar was the same difference in weight between SRR and Jake LaMotta in the 2nd fight. Yet Floyd still rocked his ass a couple times.

Marquez is not big. And Marquez was just hurt by soft punching Juan Diaz (who Floyd punches harder and more precise than). In this fight he showed me his legs were not there anymore. The bounce is gone. If Mayweather lets his hands go, he will get him out of there. Marquez is past his prime.

them_apples
06-13-2009, 09:48 AM
The difference in weight between Floyd and Oscar was the same difference in weight between SRR and Jake LaMotta in the 2nd fight. Yet Floyd still rocked his ass a couple times.

Marquez is not big. And Marquez was just hurt by soft punching Juan Diaz (who Floyd punches harder and more precise than). In this fight he showed me his legs were not there anymore. The bounce is gone. If Mayweather lets his hands go, he will get him out of there. Marquez is past his prime.

Marquez is putting on weight, Floyd is not a big puncher. Diaz had to get in real close and flurry to land that one meaningful punch. It's not uncommon to see Marquez hit the canvas, but the man has never been knocked out. Floyd would never stop Marquez. Marquez, like Morales will open up with both guns if he feels he's in danger, Mayweather will likely get scared (not being sarcastic) and opt to go safety first. I don't know who's going to win, but i know for sure Mayweather isn't stopping this caliber of fighter.

Don't compare Oscar to Jake Lamotta. Oscar may well have been a greater fighter than Lamotta, but Lamotta has a chin of steel, even better than Oscars by a fair Margin.

Sanman08
06-14-2009, 03:18 PM
I voted valero for a joke but its gotta be pacman vs mayweather.

Obama
06-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Don't compare Oscar to Jake Lamotta. Oscar may well have been a greater fighter than Lamotta, but Lamotta has a chin of steel, even better than Oscars by a fair Margin.

Reading comprehension please. No comparison about the talent and abilities of these two fighters were made.

LondonRingRules
06-14-2009, 07:32 PM
Manny:
'B' level wins:
Chatchai Sasakul, Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Oscar Larios, David Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton

** BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Floydy beats Oscar by the skin of Senior's snaggly teeth and then makes Hatton move up a division and beats him, why Oscar and Ricky are 2 of the best 5 fighters Floydy's beat, the Obamy A list.

But when Floydy ducks the even more lucrative rematch with Oscar in Floydy's preferred division, suddenly Oscar drops from Obamy A list to a B list fighter when Manny rescues the venue and puts on a master beating on Oscar, eh?

And when Manny steps in to save the lucrative p4p rematch with Ricky, suddenly Ricky's dropped from Obamy's A list to B list.

OK, now, we see how Obamy world works.........:popcorn::wow:

JMM-PAC
06-14-2009, 08:08 PM
** BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Floydy beats Oscar by the skin of Senior's snaggly teeth and then makes Hatton move up a division and beats him, why Oscar and Ricky are 2 of the best 5 fighters Floydy's beat, the Obamy A list.

But when Floydy ducks the even more lucrative rematch with Oscar in Floydy's preferred division, suddenly Oscar drops from Obamy A list to a B list fighter when Manny rescues the venue and puts on a master beating on Oscar, eh?

And when Manny steps in to save the lucrative p4p rematch with Ricky, suddenly Ricky's dropped from Obamy's A list to B list.

OK, now, we see how Obamy world works.........:popcorn::wow:

but when manny got oscar, de la hoya was dead at the weight. he never even put nothing on after the weigh in for god sakes. that was not de la hoya in the ring that night, any1 would know that.

mayweather beat a much more prime one and a strong de la hoya at his natrual weight 154.

but his win over hatton was good, but mayweather did take his 0 and did take alot out of him.

DonTaseMeBrah
06-15-2009, 02:23 AM
but when manny got oscar, de la hoya was dead at the weight. he never even put nothing on after the weigh in for god sakes. that was not de la hoya in the ring that night, any1 would know that.

mayweather beat a much more prime one and a strong de la hoya at his natrual weight 154.

but his win over hatton was good, but mayweather did take his 0 and did take alot out of him.



god that type of thinking is so narrow minded/shortsighted.

-I guess win a vs manny pacquiao by anybody is worthless since u know he's not undefeated & he got KTFO by torrecampo & singsurat & morales decisioned him.

-i guess after Marco antonio barrera after junior jones kNOCKED him the f*ck out & decision he was garbage since then. so all of his wins & losses are crap.

-i guess duran after tommy hearns KHTFO in 2 rounds is worthless.

-i guess those 2 wins by Fraud jr over castillo dont mean sh*t because Castillo had 4 losses before he lost to Fraud jr. All by ko/tko.

Dont be stupid brah. U can do what u & i just did to every single fighter.

them_apples
06-15-2009, 10:02 PM
but when manny got oscar, de la hoya was dead at the weight. he never even put nothing on after the weigh in for god sakes. that was not de la hoya in the ring that night, any1 would know that.

mayweather beat a much more prime one and a strong de la hoya at his natrual weight 154.

but his win over hatton was good, but mayweather did take his 0 and did take alot out of him.

being weight drained has nothing to do with being able to land a punch, it effects your punch resistance and endurance. Oscar was only able to land on floyd when Floyd stopped moving (which would happen from time to time) Manny never stopped moving, Oscar never throws. This is why you won't hear Oscar saying it was the weight. I think had it been a higher weight class Oscar would not have been stopped, just a one sided UD for Pacquiao. One look at a prime Oscar fighting Pernell (an elusive Southpaw) pretty much shows that he can't deal with it. He was lucky Pernell had such a low punch output.

JAB5239
06-15-2009, 10:19 PM
being weight drained has nothing to do with being able to land a punch, it effects your punch resistance and endurance. Oscar was only able to land on floyd when Floyd stopped moving (which would happen from time to time) Manny never stopped moving, Oscar never throws. This is why you won't hear Oscar saying it was the weight. I think had it been a higher weight class Oscar would not have been stopped, just a one sided UD for Pacquiao. One look at a prime Oscar fighting Pernell (an elusive Southpaw) pretty much shows that he can't deal with it. He was lucky Pernell had such a low punch output.

This is a pretty good breakdown, Apples.:biggthump

them_apples
06-16-2009, 01:12 AM
but when manny got oscar, de la hoya was dead at the weight. he never even put nothing on after the weigh in for god sakes. that was not de la hoya in the ring that night, any1 would know that.

mayweather beat a much more prime one and a strong de la hoya at his natrual weight 154.

but his win over hatton was good, but mayweather did take his 0 and did take alot out of him.

These are all illegitimate points, this is what Mayweather would say if he was asked. Mayweather made Hatton go up in weight, a weight class he looked terrible at before. On top of that Hatton was getting the best of Mayweather for the first few rounds, Floyd doesn't hit to hard and it takes 10 rounds to finally finish Hatton.

Mayweather fought a bigger and stronger Oscar, not a more skilled one. Oscar never hit Pacquiao with anything meaningful. You don't lose all your skill and timing when you move down in weight. Oscar follows guys around the ring and looks for an exchange, he did this against Mayweather. This is exactly what Freddy Roach said was his gameplan.

If Mayweather took everything out of Hatton, Malignaggi would have beat him. I don't think it was the same Hatton, but IMO Hatton looked worse at 147 then he did in his comeback at 140.

Either way, Pacquiao stopped him and made him look like a fool. Ricky would not have been able to take that shot regardless if he hadn't been knocked out prior. I stand my ground and say Pacquiao has fought much better competition, he's a better fighter than Mayweather, and if they fight Mayweather will get stopped. My opinion.

JMM-PAC
06-16-2009, 02:26 PM
being weight drained has nothing to do with being able to land a punch, it effects your punch resistance and endurance. Oscar was only able to land on floyd when Floyd stopped moving (which would happen from time to time) Manny never stopped moving, Oscar never throws. This is why you won't hear Oscar saying it was the weight. I think had it been a higher weight class Oscar would not have been stopped, just a one sided UD for Pacquiao. One look at a prime Oscar fighting Pernell (an elusive Southpaw) pretty much shows that he can't deal with it. He was lucky Pernell had such a low punch output.

what??? you ever been weight drained??? because i have. you say it only effects your punch resistance. that's horse ****. you struggle to throw a punch, and every time you do, it zapps alot of energy out of you. it affects your whole game, moving, punching, taking a punch, stamina.

it played a big part in manny defeating de la hoya!

them_apples
06-16-2009, 04:18 PM
what??? you ever been weight drained??? because i have. you say it only effects your punch resistance. that's horse ****. you struggle to throw a punch, and every time you do, it zapps alot of energy out of you. it affects your whole game, moving, punching, taking a punch, stamina.

it played a big part in manny defeating de la hoya!

Yes I have been weight drained, I found my self not recooperating as quickly. I felt good at first but once I was fighting I didn't feel so good. Either way, look at him vs an old Pernell, if you skip my first point the second one is still legit.

LondonRingRules
06-16-2009, 04:46 PM
but when manny got oscar, de la hoya was dead at the weight. he never even put nothing on after the weigh in for god sakes. that was not de la hoya in the ring that night, any1 would know that.

mayweather beat a much more prime one and a strong de la hoya at his natrual weight 154.

but his win over hatton was good, but mayweather did take his 0 and did take alot out of him.

** You say dead at the weight, but this is the exact same fight Floydy ducked, giving up his title to retire.

Not only, but the Oscar Floydy got was without his trainer and an older, rusty, part time boxer and full time promoter, not the Oscar that Mosely needed Balco to beat or the Oscar that held his own against Popkins when he actually held the undisputed title. I never saw Oscar fight like he did against Floydy in my life.

At any rate, it's not like Floydy put on a clinic, criminy, he won a disputed split and wouldn't rematch!

I would remind you that Oscar had a tune up prior to Manny at 150 lbs to test his ability to cut weight and fight, winning a lopsided decision against Forbes. Oscar had been walking around near the welter limit until fight night with Manny, so it ain't like he had a major cut.

As far as Hatton goes, Manny fought him at Hatton's natural weight. You claim Floydy took something out of Hatton, but the turnbuckle took more out of Ricky than anything Floydy did. Fighters have died by striking their heads against the things.

Regardless, Hatton worked hard and beatdown a cute boxer in Malignaggi, so he proved he had plenty in the tank left.

So, why is Floydy coming back for less money to fight against someone even smaller and why did he wait until the eve of Manny/Hatton to announce it? Now that Oscar and Ricky have been taken care of, it's safe for his return, is that it?

Well, many believe he's gonna retire again before he fights. So what's he going on about? Is he that desperate for attention?

Infern0
06-16-2009, 04:49 PM
I voted for Valero koing everyone lol