View Full Version : State of Origin 2009
With State of Origin just over a week away I'd thought I'd make this thread.
Here's the NSW Origin team.
1. Kurt Gidley (c)
2. Jarryd Hayne
3. Jamie Lyon
4. Michael Jennings
5. James McManus
6. Terry Campese
7. Peter Wallace
8. Brent Kite
9. Robbie Farah
10. Luke Bailey
11. Ben Creagh
12. Luke O'Donnell
13. Paul Gallen
Interchange
14. Craig Wing
15. Justin Poore
16. Glenn Stewart
17. Michael Weyman
18th man: Luke Lewis
Arrow 05-25-2009, 06:28 PM They'll have their work cut out with the Toads. What a line up they've got:sad:
Still, I can't wait. Love SOO :boxing::fing02:
Dan... 05-25-2009, 07:11 PM Not too bad I guess. I would probably not have gone with Wallace at half back, and I might have gone for the safety option with Cooper in the centres instead of Jennings, despite how well Jennings has been going. I definately would have picked Monaghan on the wing over McManus as well.
Not a fan of their bench either. I would definately not have gone with wing. Lewis was very very unlucky to miss out IMO as was Laffranchi.
I don't think they will score enough points to beat us.
brently1979 05-25-2009, 08:33 PM QLD will win. I just hope Robbie shows just how overrated and untalented a player Cameron Smith is.
Dan... 05-25-2009, 09:09 PM QLD will win. I just hope Robbie shows just how overrated and untalented a player Cameron Smith is.
I agree with you on that. Smith is a pretty good hooker, but people massively overrate his ball-playing abilities.
Greatwhitehope 05-25-2009, 11:12 PM Smith is regarded as such a good player due to his organisational skills, he really leads a team around the park well, probably better than any other player in the world.
Dan... 05-25-2009, 11:19 PM Smith is regarded as such a good player due to his organisational skills, he really leads a team around the park well, probably better than any other player in the world.
See I just don't know about that. So much is talked about in relation to his intangibles. Those things are very easy to talk about and hard to gauge IMO. He is a good hooker. He works hard, gives good service from dummy half and has a handy kicking game.
I would rather have Farrah in my team to be honest, I think he gives you all that and a bit more in the play-making role.
Dan... 05-26-2009, 12:04 AM XXXX QUEENSLAND MAROONS
1. BILLY SLATER (STORM)
2. DARIUS BOYD (DRAGONS)
3. GREG INGLIS (STORM)
4. JUSTIN HODGES (BRONCOS)
5. ISRAEL FOLAU (BRONCOS)
6. DARREN LOCKYER (c) (BRONCOS)
7. JOHNATHAN THURSTON (COWBOYS)
8. STEVEN PRICE (WARRIORS)
9. CAMERON SMITH (STORM)
10. PETERO CIVONICEVA (PANTHERS)
11. ASHLEY HARRISON (TITANS)
12. SAM THAIDAY (BRONCOS)
13. DALLAS JOHNSON (STORM)
14. KARMICHAEL HUNT (BRONCOS)
15. BEN HANNANT (BULLDOGS)
16. NATE MYLES (ROOSTERS)
17. MICHAEL CROCKER (RABBITOHS)
Dan... 05-26-2009, 12:05 AM No real surprises. Maybe Harrison starting but that is about it.
Good side. Clearly superior to NSW in the halves, backs and bench. I think the forwards are fairly evenly matched. Queensland should just have too many points for NSW.
boxa_ali 05-26-2009, 02:22 AM What happened to matt bowen he use to calve up the nsw defense
everytime he touched the ball nsw would **** themselves
Dan... 05-26-2009, 02:33 AM What happened to matt bowen he use to calve up the nsw defense
everytime he touched the ball nsw would **** themselves
I disagree.
Bowen is a fantastic club footballer no doubt. One of the best in the league. But his strengths are not at all suited for origin. He preys on tiring defences up the middle and jagged kick-chases. These are very rare occurances in origin football. The game is so intense and players are willing to put in that additional effort so that those opportunities only occur rarely if at all.
The other problem for Bowen is that his weaknesses are magnified in origin football. He lacks the strength of defense that the other fullbacks have. When a second rower breaks the line Hunt and Slater are very reasonable chances to stop them. Bowen has pretty much no chance. Also, kick returns. When the kick-chase is good Bowen's speed and footwork is useless. It is all about strength and ensuring you get a solid start to the set - both Hunt and Slater are again superior to Bowen in this respect.
I don't think Bowen has ever played very well in an origin match, and I doubt he ever would. The game is just not suited to him.
Arrow 05-26-2009, 06:24 PM It's a funny game this. With all the skill that Qld has, it will all come down to who is hot & who is not.
Picking teams with cohesion is the job selectors have.
13 Captains won't beat Qld.
For mine, NSW need to pot goals at every opportunity so I would have risked someone like El Masri.
One thing about this game, for mine, is that they are all ockers so I'm really selfish about it.
I don't worry too much about who wins, as long as it maintain it's reputation as being one of the elite of exciting events on the planet.:notworthy
Gallen out of the first game with a shoulder injury. Laffranchi replaces him.
brently1979 05-31-2009, 05:35 AM Smith is regarded as such a good player due to his organisational skills, he really leads a team around the park well, probably better than any other player in the world.
I hope your joking or you're getting him mixed up with someone else, because Cameron Smith isn't leading ****.
mgkirkpatrick 05-31-2009, 07:00 AM The thing is.. I think it's a lot closer than it looks on paper. We might have the better back line.. definitely the more established back line.. but Origin is always won and lost in the forwards.. and they might just pip us there.. especially in the back row.. if the blues get a quick play the ball and utilise their mobile pack.. queensland are going to have their work cut out for them
boxing_great 06-03-2009, 09:08 AM Good win for the maroons.I bet the betting agencies are fuming at the huge sums they have to pay out
The blues didn't seem to have any planned moves in attack.There was no real coordination.
Ben Creagh had a pretty good game so did Robbie Farah.
I think the qld'ers can win by a bigger margin the next game in Sydney.Not the most intense origin game,but it was ok.
Great tries to Queensland. And Thurstons conversions were very good as well.
Savino 06-03-2009, 05:46 PM gonna watch it tomorrow on my day off. I seen the squads and QLD's have the more experinced team and think will win the series 3-0
Dan... 06-03-2009, 05:49 PM Seriously, how did Greg Inglis not get man of the match?
brently1979 06-03-2009, 08:16 PM NSW need a clearance sale with the Team. Robbie Farrah and Jarryd Hayne were the best players for NSW. Wallace was a **** choice for half back, he wasn't directing any plays. NSW forwards were as weak as piss.
I said this before the game and it solidifies my thoughts, how the **** is Gidley even in the team let alone captain??? Seriously. Robbie Farrah should be captain he is a natural leader.
It is a shame that Keith Gallaway couldn't make the team, they need some big forwards.
I am not a Brett Kimmorley fan, but I would put him in for the next game. Wallace might be okay at Brisbane playing outside of Darren Lockyer. But he looked lost last night.
Dan... 06-03-2009, 10:16 PM Wallace is horribly overrated. He should never have made the side.
I think Gidley is the best fullback in NSW right now, definately on form anyway. Who would you pick if not him?
Farrah had a good second half but I thought in the first half he was poor. His service was quite slow and he was not testing the ruck defence enough.
I thought the NSW forwards were ok. They certainly got the better of our pack IMO.
boxa_ali 06-03-2009, 10:22 PM NSW need a clearance sale with the Team. Robbie Farrah and Jarryd Hayne were the best players for NSW. Wallace was a **** choice for half back, he wasn't directing any plays. NSW forwards were as weak as piss.
I said this before the game and it solidifies my thoughts, how the **** is Gidley even in the team let alone captain??? Seriously. Robbie Farrah should be captain he is a natural leader.
It is a shame that Keith Gallaway couldn't make the team, they need some big forwards.
I am not a Brett Kimmorley fan, but I would put him in for the next game. Wallace might be okay at Brisbane playing outside of Darren Lockyer. But he looked lost last night.
I agree with some of your points Gidley should be sacked and they need a better full back im not sure who but someone with more speed and can be an impact player. Gidley had some shocking moments.
I think kimorley should be given a go at half back he has the experience and can direct play.
woftam 06-04-2009, 12:18 AM I agree Wallace didn't really try to make anything happen.
Maybe Kimmorley or Orford might be worth a try in game 2. Or perhaps Wing can play there?
Gidley made some shocking mistakes but I'm not sure what alternative the blues have with Stewart not available.
I think Watmough should get a gig in game 2 as well.
Dan... 06-04-2009, 12:20 AM I agree Wallace didn't really try to make anything happen.
Maybe Kimmorley or Orford might be worth a try in game 2. Or perhaps Wing can play there?
Gidley made some shocking mistakes but I'm not sure what alternative the blues have with Stewart not available.
I think Watmough should get a gig in game 2 as well.
How he got left out of Game I i have no idea.
Greatwhitehope 06-04-2009, 02:03 AM I'll tell you how, he misses more tackles than the halves.
brently1979 06-04-2009, 05:03 AM Wallace is horribly overrated. He should never have made the side.
I think Gidley is the best fullback in NSW right now, definately on form anyway. Who would you pick if not him?
Farrah had a good second half but I thought in the first half he was poor. His service was quite slow and he was not testing the ruck defence enough.
I thought the NSW forwards were ok. They certainly got the better of our pack IMO.
He out played Smith that is for sure. But that isn't really hard to do.
Dan... 06-04-2009, 08:14 PM He out played Smith that is for sure. But that isn't really hard to do.
I gotta disagree with you again.
I rate Farrah over Smith generally but I thought that of the two Smith had the better game the other night.
brently1979 06-04-2009, 11:05 PM I gotta disagree with you again.
I rate Farrah over Smith generally but I thought that of the two Smith had the better game the other night.
What about that pass to Hayne to send him down the sideline?
Dan... 06-04-2009, 11:43 PM What about that pass to Hayne to send him down the sideline?
My main criticism of him was his work from dummy half. His play-making is good, and it is a massive advantage for a hooker to have, I jsut expected a bit more out of him around the ruck. His service was not as good as I expected it to be and I don't think he tested out the marker defence anywhere near enough.
brently1979 06-04-2009, 11:51 PM My main criticism of him was his work from dummy half. His play-making is good, and it is a massive advantage for a hooker to have, I jsut expected a bit more out of him around the ruck. His service was not as good as I expected it to be and I don't think he tested out the marker defence anywhere near enough.
You must be disappointed with Smith then.
Dan... 06-05-2009, 12:08 AM You must be disappointed with Smith then.
As I said I don't think Smith is particularly good but I thought that he had one of his stronger games the other night.
NSW team for State of Origin 2.
1. Kurt Gidley (c)
2. Jarryd Hayne
3. Jamie Lyon
4. Michael Jennings
5. David Williams
6. Trent Barrett
7. Peter Wallace
8. Brent Kite
9. Robbie Farah
10. Michael Weyman
11. Ben Creagh
12. Luke O'Donnell
13. Paul Gallen
Interchange
14. Craig Wing
15. Justin Poore
16. Glenn Stewart
17. Anthony Watmough
Shadow players: Tom Learoyd-Lahrs, Joel Monaghan, Josh Morris.
boxing_great 06-16-2009, 08:24 AM NSW team for State of Origin 2.
1. Kurt Gidley (c)
2. Jarryd Hayne
3. Jamie Lyon
4. Michael Jennings
5. David Williams
6. Trent Barrett
7. Peter Wallace
8. Brent Kite
9. Robbie Farah
10. Michael Weyman
11. Ben Creagh
12. Luke O'Donnell
13. Paul Gallen
Interchange
14. Craig Wing
15. Justin Poore
16. Glenn Stewart
17. Anthony Watmough
Shadow players: Tom Learoyd-Lahrs, Joel Monaghan, Josh Morris.
I don't think Barrett is playing in form.
Greatwhitehope 06-18-2009, 01:04 AM Jennings out, Monaghan in.
Still doubts over a few other NSW players.
Dan... 06-18-2009, 01:43 AM Jennings out, Monaghan in.
Still doubts over a few other NSW players.
Jennings is a loss.
I think it was the right move to include Barrett but I think they dropped the wrong half - Wallace is dreadful.
QUeensland will win again I think.
boxing_great 06-18-2009, 10:38 AM Jennings is a loss.
I think it was the right move to include Barrett but I think they dropped the wrong half - Wallace is dreadful.
QUeensland will win again I think.
NSW can't get a coherent side together.They keep on chopping and changing..
Let's see whether it will work or not..
brently1979 06-24-2009, 08:37 AM Not taking anything away from QLD they won fair and Square, but NSW played so ****.
That prick from Manly dropping the ball twice and Wallace is useless when he isn't playing outside Darren.
I am happy that QLD won in a way, so that cunt Craig Bellamy and Laurie Dailey can come up with some answers for why they picked such a **** house team. Because NSW had their chances during that game.
mgkirkpatrick 06-24-2009, 08:47 AM Honestly.. I think Queensland's team is just too good at the moment. The nucleus has been there for too long and the mix of youth and experience is just right. Chemistry and cohesion shouldn't be overlooked.
Queensland's forwards are all tough, hardened and RELIABLE. The backs are all brilliant individual stars.. Lockyer and Thurston have to be one of the best halves pairings in Origin history.. The scary thing is.. they haven't even clicked as well as they could have in the first two games..
As for NSW... Jesus.. I know it's easy to say, but it just looks like they don't have the pride in the jersey that QLD do. I mean obviously Williams tried his guts out, but you can't give the ball away three times on the first run of the set.. Farah might have a bit of flash in attack, but you can't just throw your arms out when Folau is running at your line and you're the last line of defence.. Gidley.. is being found out big time.. he reminds me of Slater.. good in a winning team, but prone to erratic play under pressure. Creagh is a good player.. Hayne is very talented (though an arrogant CUNT).. Barret showed glimpses, but he was never going to give NSW a consistent 80 minutes..
I won't be surprised to see a blowout score at Suncorp.. which as a Queensland fan I should relish.. but I don't.. this is Origin.. bring the game NSW
brently1979 06-24-2009, 08:51 AM Honestly.. I think Queensland's team is just too good at the moment. The nucleus has been there for too long and the mix of youth and experience is just right. Chemistry and cohesion shouldn't be overlooked.
Queensland's forwards are all tough, hardened and RELIABLE. The backs are all brilliant individual stars.. Lockyer and Thurston have to be one of the best halves pairings in Origin history.. The scary thing is.. they haven't even clicked as well as they could have in the first two games..
As for NSW... Jesus.. I know it's easy to say, but it just looks like they don't have the pride in the jersey that QLD do. I mean obviously Williams tried his guts out, but you can't give the ball away three times on the first run of the set.. Farah might have a bit of flash in attack, but you can't just throw your arms out when Folau is running at your line and you're the last line of defence.. Gidley.. is being found out big time.. he reminds me of Slater.. good in a winning team, but prone to erratic play under pressure. Creagh is a good player.. Hayne is very talented (though an arrogant CUNT).. Barret showed glimpses, but he was never going to give NSW a consistent 80 minutes..
I won't be surprised to see a blowout score at Suncorp.. which as a Queensland fan I should relish.. but I don't.. this is Origin.. bring the game NSW
Yeah, NSW winning would have kept the interest there. I couldn't give a **** about the third game.
A decider at SUNCORP would have been unreal.
NSW did play tough in the game, but that team just isn't a class team. You need at good half directing the play and Wallace isn't a great half.
mgkirkpatrick 06-24-2009, 08:54 AM Who would you have instead? That's the concern.. Personally.. I'd have Kimmorley. I doubt NSW selectors would backtrack like that.. especially going into a decider where they'll look to either show faith or blood someone..
boxing_great 06-24-2009, 08:56 AM The 3rd game has lost its excitement now.
As for NSW, I don't know how KIMMORLEY wasn't the halfback in the side???
brently1979 06-24-2009, 08:57 AM Who would you have instead? That's the concern.. Personally.. I'd have Kimmorley. I doubt NSW selectors would backtrack like that.. especially going into a decider where they'll look to either show faith or blood someone..
Kimmorley should have been the half, he's in good form this year and has been playing really well for the dogs and he is up to that level, wallace isn't up to Origin.
Without a good halfback you're screwed.
mgkirkpatrick 06-24-2009, 08:57 AM They black listed him after he threw Matty Bowen that intercept pass a few years back
brently1979 06-24-2009, 08:59 AM They black listed him after he threw Matty Bowen that intercept pass a few years back
Will they black list that **** wit from Manly? I hope so. He only plays for himself anyhow.
Besides I don't think an active NRL club coach should coach an Origin Team be that NSW or QLD.
NSW didn't look like a team in the way QLD did tonight.
mgkirkpatrick 06-24-2009, 09:05 AM I was going to say.. the stage looks set for a return of Gould.. ****ing hope not
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Video of the tries scored in the match.
How was the Harrison try disallowed?
Dan... 06-24-2009, 06:33 PM They did everything they could to rob us. Disgraceful refereeing in that game, we deserved to win by 30 points.
Great win though, good to see us put NSW in their place again.
Two changes I would definately make for Game 3 if I was the Blues are Ennis in for Farrah and [insert any half back with legs here] in for that useless piece of **** Wallace.
brently1979 06-24-2009, 07:28 PM They did everything they could to rob us. Disgraceful refereeing in that game, we deserved to win by 30 points.
Great win though, good to see us put NSW in their place again.
Two changes I would definately make for Game 3 if I was the Blues are Ennis in for Farrah and [insert any half back with legs here] in for that useless piece of **** Wallace.
What is supposed to mean?
Dan... 06-24-2009, 07:30 PM What is supposed to mean?
We are superior.
brently1979 06-24-2009, 07:32 PM We are superior.
You have a superior team.
Dan... 06-24-2009, 07:38 PM You have a superior team.
Haha, I know man. It was a throwaway comment, just relax.
brently1979 06-24-2009, 07:49 PM Haha, I know man. It was a throwaway comment, just relax.
You are very clever Dan and one of the few posters on here I respect.
Dan... 06-24-2009, 07:56 PM You are very clever Dan and one of the few posters on here I respect.
Cheers Brently, your posts are one of the few I actually stop to read when I am in NSB.
NSW team for Game 3.
1. Kurt Gidley (c) (Knights)
2. Jarryd Hayne (Eels)
3. Michael Jennings (Panthers)
4. Jamie Lyon (Sea Eagles)
5. David Williams (Sea Eagles)
6. Trent Barrett (Sharks)
7. Brett Kimmorley (Bulldogs)
8. Josh Perry (Sea Eagles)
9. Michael Ennis (Bulldogs)
10. Justin Poore (Dragons)
11. Ben Creagh (Dragons)
12. Trent Waterhouse (Panthers)
13. Anthony Watmough (Sea Eagles)
Interchange
14. Craig Wing (Rabbitohs)
15. Tom Learoyd-Lahrs (Raiders)
16. Glenn Stewart (Sea Eagles)
17. Brett White (Storm)
Dan... 07-06-2009, 06:08 PM Kimmorley should have been there from the start, he is ten times the player Wallace is.
Not surprised they have given Ennis a go. His club form has been very good and unfortunately for Farrah he has really struggled to make an impact in Origin the way he does in the NRL for Wests.
I actually give NSW a decent chance in this game. THe changes seem ok and we are missing some serious troops for this game.
brently1979 07-06-2009, 08:05 PM NSW are only trying to win this name and aren't thinking about the future. I really hope QLD beat the blues.
Farah played great on the Weekend, he is a class player. Farah should have been in the NSW team back in 06, 07 & 08 when he was playing at his best but they kept that other bum from Newcastle in there.
Dan... 07-06-2009, 09:00 PM NSW are only trying to win this name and aren't thinking about the future. I really hope QLD beat the blues.
Farah played great on the Weekend, he is a class player. Farah should have been in the NSW team back in 06, 07 & 08 when he was playing at his best but they kept that other bum from Newcastle in there.
Farrah is a tough one. He is definately a class player at club level, but he did have two very ordinary games in Origin I and II.
I might have kept him there and put Ennis on the bench instead of Wing. As you say, they need to start building for the future and I think Farrah needs to be part of it.
FWIW if it was up to me I might have put Mullen and Soward in the halves for this game. They are their two brightest playmaking prospects and they need to start developing them ASAP.
no1p4p 07-06-2009, 09:55 PM Why isnt Jarrod Mullen in the team? He has been playing well for newcastle
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Centimeters from being one of the greatest tries ever.
Dan... 07-15-2009, 06:33 PM Yeah, would have been a great try.
We were missing too many good defensive forwards last night. Petro, Myles, Hannant - just too soft around the rucks. Whatmough carved us up, he had a great game.
Also, the NSW selectors should all be sacked ASAP. That game showed how ridiculous having Wallace in the side over Kimmorley for the first two games really was.
Infern0 07-15-2009, 09:16 PM Pricey got KTFO didn't he?
they were up in arms in n.z
Dan... 07-15-2009, 09:28 PM Pricey got KTFO didn't he?
they were up in arms in n.z
Apparently it was an elbow? I didn't think it was watching it real time but ppl who slowed it down and **** told me today it was an elbow.
I fukn hate White. The man is total scum.
woftam 07-15-2009, 09:30 PM Pricey got KTFO didn't he?
they were up in arms in n.z
He did but I'm not sure what everyone was so upset about.
They stood toe to toe and White landed a clean shot on the chin. What should he have done? Let price land one on him? If your argument is that White started it or was the aggressor then fair point. I didn't think Thurston's kick to the face of David Williams was terribly classy either.
Greatwhitehope 07-15-2009, 11:59 PM Farrah is a tough one. He is definately a class player at club level, but he did have two very ordinary games in Origin I and II.
I might have kept him there and put Ennis on the bench instead of Wing. As you say, they need to start building for the future and I think Farrah needs to be part of it.
FWIW if it was up to me I might have put Mullen and Soward in the halves for this game. They are their two brightest playmaking prospects and they need to start developing them ASAP.
Soward in game III would've been a terrible idea, what everyone forgets is this is his first season of full time first grade, although he's in spectacular form, a proven performer in Barrett was the better choice, what they should be looking to do is ease them into origin, personally I would've stuck with Campese after game I but put Kimmorley/Barrett at half, someone with a bit of experience.
If your going to try and put two young players in the halves for origin in Mullen and Soward at the same time, with a young and inexperienced backline of Jennings, Morris and Wolfman your destined for trouble.
Greatwhitehope 07-16-2009, 12:01 AM Apparently it was an elbow? I didn't think it was watching it real time but ppl who slowed it down and **** told me today it was an elbow.
I fukn hate White. The man is total scum.
It was a pretty crisp shot from White, I never really rated him as a footy player though, he's a pretty good dude in everyday life, I think last night was his best origin match of his career, even though it was still just a solid performance.
Dan... 07-16-2009, 12:22 AM Soward in game III would've been a terrible idea, what everyone forgets is this is his first season of full time first grade, although he's in spectacular form, a proven performer in Barrett was the better choice, what they should be looking to do is ease them into origin, personally I would've stuck with Campese after game I but put Kimmorley/Barrett at half, someone with a bit of experience.
If your going to try and put two young players in the halves for origin in Mullen and Soward at the same time, with a young and inexperienced backline of Jennings, Morris and Wolfman your destined for trouble.
Yeah, you're probably right. Both those guys are coming to the end of their rep careers though and the series was gone for them. I would definately have played at least one young half in that game, whether it be Mullen, Soward or Campese.
Dan... 07-16-2009, 12:24 AM It was a pretty crisp shot from White, I never really rated him as a footy player though, he's a pretty good dude in everyday life, I think last night was his best origin match of his career, even though it was still just a solid performance.
Yeah, I'll have to watch it again properly. I thought it was a crisp shot initially but a lot of ppl up here are saying he caught him with a follow through elbow.
It was definately the best game White has played for the Blues, he has been awful in the past.
boxing_great 07-16-2009, 03:17 AM The dead rubber ends up being the best game of the series. Full of excitement, drama, controversy and a lot of tension.Something the 1st 2 games lacked.It was an awesome game right from the start with big hits and all.
Qld dropped way too much ball, and kept handing the ball over to NSW.
I don't know why Kimmorley wasn't in the side to start with. Why Wallace deserves a spot I'm still to understand.
As for David Williams, the guy couldn't catch a cold in the middle of winter.
Greatwhitehope 07-16-2009, 03:58 AM Yeah, I'll have to watch it again properly. I thought it was a crisp shot initially but a lot of ppl up here are saying he caught him with a follow through elbow.
It was definately the best game White has played for the Blues, he has been awful in the past.
Yeah he finally stood up, was a nice surprise, Watmough was the real shock of the game, I'd been one of his critics but he certainly shut me up.
I saw the Price/White fight just before, Price gets hit flush on the chin by a right from White, you can see his eyes roll straight into the back of his head as soon as it hits.
brently1979 07-16-2009, 08:39 AM Thank **** it's over for another year. This really disrupts the normal season.
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