He's got a lot of heart, but in today's world of larger, stronger heavyweights, how would he cope?

IMO he'd whoop every hw in the current divison

Have to agree. He's got more heart than any of the current heavyweights. I have just seen a documentary about the Thrilla and Manilla, and apparently he was practically blind in his left eye before the fight even started!

he would definitely win one of the titles

Joe Frazier would knock out every single heavy out there right now.
He's in a totally different class .

Looking at frasier's record and watching several of his fights,

he fought and beat some top heavyweight(Ali,Chuvalo,Ellis,Quarry)

fighters. In addition to this, joe had the courage and heart of

a champion. when fighting George Foreman the first time, joe had

the balls to rise from the canvas six times before the referree

stopped the fight. Now, who in the heavyweight division today

has that type of mentality besides holyfield. When tyson was

knocked out by d.williams he just laid there on the canvas and

was counted out. So, the answer to your question is; Joe frasier

would fare pretty well in today's heavyweight climate and would

sure be tough enough to beat fighters like ruiz, byrd,w.klitscho,

McCline,etc,etc. :mad:

Smoki'n Joe will be the undisputed Heavyweight Champ. Today's fighters are bigger but are never competitive after the 6 round . . . as compared to the old days where heavy weights slug it out like the lighter divisions until the last bell of the 15th round. :cool:

Joe would whup these young pretenders today. What kinda question was that neway.

current day as in today, like what pso Jr said he will be undisputed HW Champ...

I knew what the question was it was just a stupid one. the question should really be how many of todays fighters would survive in Smokin Joes era. The deepest era of talent. He would have whupped them all.

He's got a lot of heart, but in today's world of larger, stronger heavyweights, how would he cope?

Watch Ali-Frazier 1 and tell me if Frazier wouldn't KO everybody at Heavy right now.
Against the very big guys he would just duck/block and destroy the body with his incredible left hand!

I think he woud do werry well

It wouldn't even be competitive, Frazier would smoke them all.

I knew what the question was it was just a stupid one. the Pardon me :)

I was thinking more of the recent past... wouldn't Lewis be too big? And would a peak Tyson take him apart?

Frazier would destory Lewis on acitivity alone. A fat Mercer and old Holyfield made Lewis very fatigued in their fights. Lewis would have a heart attack when faced with Frazier's smoking attack. Lewis had so much success b/c he beat HWs with worse stamina and less skilled then he was (Tua, Morrison, Grant, Botha etc.) Frazier was a different breed altogether.

Too big? watch Frazier against Mathis, perhaps the most agile, quick-handed 'super' HW in history (who would also be champ today) and Frazier annihilates him

It would be the same...

the last two guys I can remember post seventies that could have competed with Frazier would be Holmes and Tyson..in primes

todays jokers wouldn't have the heart or stamina to go 15 hard rounds with Smokin Joe. V.Klitschko would put up the best fight out of them, but wouldn't be able to keep Joe's pace the entire fight.

I would've loved to see Lennox Lewis vs. Joe Frazier. What styles would've meshed better?

I would've loved to see Lennox Lewis vs. Joe Frazier. What styles would've meshed better?

thats a good matchup, but probably my two dream fights at heavyweight...
#1
1971-74 Ali vs- 1980 Larry Holmes. What a great match this would have been. Even though neither guy is a bomber, it would be great.

#2
1971 Joe Frazier vs 1988 Mike Tyson..BOMBS AWAY!!

So by inferral, are we saying 1973 George Foreman was a really good fighter?

Foreman was good in 73, but Joe was scared of him. Foreman dominated Joe psychologically, i don't think Joe was ever scared of anyone else. Foreman just had Frazier's number. But if Smokin Joe were in his prime today, he'd be the undisputed champ! To see the proof, just watch Frazier - Ali 1 or Smokin' Joe's destruction of WBA ( i think?) champ Jimmy Ellis.
Elllis was a good fighter, and very similar in size to todays boiz ( he was bigger than Joe ) and it was a one sided slaughter from the beginning

Anorak, '73 foreman was THE greatest fighter. Any other heavy who ever laced them up gets crushed if they get into the ring in Kingston Jamacia.

As far as Frazier faring today? He beats any and all comers since Holmes was in his prime, with ease. The best fight of all would be Frazier v Holyfield. Holy would fight so hard that he would be hospitalized or die. Tyson, Lennox etc would all wish that they had died. Period end of story.

Anyone who thinks Frazier would be too small need to get a copy of Mathis-Frazier. Mathis had quicker hands and better skills then any of today's big guys, had good power, and still was just overwhelmed by Frazier. Joe Frazier in his prime was a force of nature-he simply could not be discouraged and he never stopped throwing HARD punches . . .

He's got a lot of heart, but in today's world of larger, stronger heavyweights, how would he cope?
I'd have to say that he would take a lot of pummeling from Vitali before getting inside, wearing him out, and probably TKO'ing him. Now this is the Vitali of today, future results might bring further insight. I definitly see him beating aeveryone else, with a fight with Byrd interesting because I'm not so sure he'd knock him out, in fact I don't think he would. Byrd's stood up to VItali, Wladimir, Tua, and Ibeabuchi, who did knock him out.

Joe would become the undisputed Heavyweight champion, He would crush all opposition today.

frazier would woop all opponents today

i dont think Frazier would do very well if his prime was now i mean can you imagine frazier fighting klitschko

I think Joe against Toney would be a good match and against Holyfield an absolute war.

IMO he'd whoop every hw in the current divison
i feel u on that

He would fare extremely well. He had too many things going for him. His combination of power, handspeed (compared to todays lumbering oxes), chin and incredible heart and stamina as well as underrated defensive moves negate the size difference.

Ppl cant question joes heart stamina punching power left hook his tenacity, joe was an all round great fighter.
He's an all time great a HOF. He beat Ali in his prime nobody could have beat Fraizer that nite.
That's when he was at his best.
I have more respect for joe than these HWS today.

i still dont know how joe had the stamina for 15 rounds to fight the way that he did, constantly bobbing and weaving, winging out almost nothing but power shots. you see the heavyweights today they look winded atter 6 rounds of doing nothing. :confused: joe crushes all of them

His left hook would have made him filthy rich today.

he would actually do pretty good in my humble opinion

Looking at the state of the HW division today, there's no question that Joe would, no doubt, dominate the HW division. I noticed that Kid Achillies made a good point about Joe's defense. Most people don't give Joe enough credit for his head movement on his way inside.

He would whop the entire divison, except VK i think VK has a slight chance at ud him if he keeps him away with his jabb.

He would obviously do well in the current HW division, since he did pretty well during the golden era of heavyweights.

frazier would do good today, probably would win a belt


and all other heavyweights of his time -- ali, foreman, spinks, holmes, will compete and definitely will win a belt or two in this division

he would do what he did at the time until 1973, dominate the division,

remember he lost only to ali and foreman. On very close fights with ali, and foreman was just impossible for him to beat, given his style (d'amato used to show tyson footage of that fight to show him the wrong style to use with foreman)

can I imagine him fighting VK?...

yes I can

handspeed, no cuts, impossible workrate, constant pressure (the only guy who ever rocked him was foreman), monster left hook.

the question is "what would klitscko do?"

keep him off jabbing?
are his hands fast enough to hit joe moving head? ali's hands were not fast enough to hit him regularly

knock him out? does vitali have foreman power? cos that what it takes to stop frazier

klitscko chin would definitely hold up, I think he has a GREAT chin, so the fight wold go the distance (or be stopped on cuts)

I would bet my money on frazier vs any of today's heavies

wmute,

I agree with everything you said about Frazier except the part about only Foreman rocking him. Several guys rocked Frazier. Bonavena had him down several times. Ali had him hurt. Even journeyman Ron Stander buckled his knees in their fight. Frazier had a solid chin but it was not as good as Ali, Holmes, Marciano, etc's.

wmute,

I agree with everything you said about Frazier except the part about only Foreman rocking him. Several guys rocked Frazier. Bonavena had him down several times. Ali had him hurt. Even journeyman Ron Stander buckled his knees in their fight. Frazier had a solid chin but it was not as good as Ali, Holmes, Marciano, etc's.

yes his chin is not marciano, holmes or ali, I agree

but

didn't Ali hurt him only late in the 3rd fight if I am right?
if I remember correctly, that would have nothing to do with today's division, where no one would keep such a high connect-ratio for so many rounds and close his eyes

bonavena had him down twice in one round when joe had only a dozen fight, the point with pasttime fighters is that some even lost some fights they definitely should not here and there, still when it was time to deliver the goods the champions showed to be champions in an even more impressive way than today's fighters with no losses on the record

a problem might be that he was a slow starter, but since prime tyson is not around in this division, this would not make it a problem

and I have to admit I never saw the stander fight,
people say frazier was not training very hard after the ali fight
(in fact he never fought at 205 again) and that also affected his performance with foreman (I don't believe this would have been different, though)

I think the thing about Joe was that he wasn't too difficult to hurt but nearly impossible to stop. You would really have to shoot him to keep him down and I suspect if the ref didn't stop it, and he was allowed to keep getting up, the Foreman fights would have been several rounds longer than they were. They would have ended with Joe in a coma. That's the only way I see him not getting up from a knockdown; he didn't know how to quit.

You can say that Tyson (I use this example as a a contemporary fight known for having a good chin and power) had a better chin in that it was harder to phase Tyson with punches but look at how Tyson reacts to hard shots. He goes into a shell. Notice in Tyson-Lewis where Tyson comes out like a lion in the begining of each round and goes out like a lamb. The guy hated to get hit. He had no confidence in himself. Whenever he got tagged it seemed like he'd say to himself "shit, I am ****ing up, I need to stop making mistakes" and he'd stop taking chances. His punch outpout would decrease significantly, and he also seemed to get hit more often. Frazier on the other hand always fought the same regardless of what the other guy was doing. In fact, it's almost like receiving punches motivated him and made him fight with more ferocity.

That's the difference in their reaction to getting hit. Tyson would get hit by shots that didn't seem to hurt him that badly and yet they still had a detrimental effect on his workrate while when Joe got hurt he would just get pissed off and turn up the heat.

So even though I don't think that Frazier had a great chin, certainly not as solid as a guy like Tyson, he was so fierce and always in such good shape that it didn't matter. In the end, it all boils down to the fact that he was more comfortable getting hit than most fighters.

frazier would not live with any good heavy wieght of today way 2 small, his son was his size moved liked him, was him in many ways, just was to little for the big boys of today mike tyson nearly killed him.14 stone fighter are to light

frazier would not live with any good heavy wieght of today way 2 small, his son was his size moved liked him, was him in many ways, just was to little for the big boys of today mike tyson nearly killed him.14 stone fighter are to light
Thats funny. Comparing Joe to Marvis, thats just uncalled for. Joe was five times the brawler that his son was, his son was a boxer forced to brawl. If a prime Joe fought Tyson there would have been a totally different outcome. That fight would have went the full distance, and probably been a split decision. Don't compare the two though, thats insane

Agree with the last post. Mike Munoz just got passed over in the NFL Draft even though he's bigger than his dad. His dad Anthony is an NFL HOF member and one of the best ever at his position. Don't confuse Mike with Anthony or Marvis with Joe!

sorry to disagree with everyone :) but i don't think joe would beaten lennox lewis.
Lewis in my opinion was too big and to strong for joe, he used his height to perfection and would outbox joe with his jab for all for 12 rounds.
Lewis was a very strong puncher especially with that right hand and would of certainly hit joe throughtout the whole fight. Frazier didn't have the best chin in the world (better than lewis, i know!) but he was destroyed twice by george foreman and although lewis probably wouldn't of overwhelmed him like george he would of won by a unanimous decision.
Lewis in this fight has all the advantages, he's taller than joe by about 6 inches and outweighs him by 40-50 pounds.
If Joe and Tyson had a boxing match i'd still think tyson would win.

frazier wouldnt do good with the bigger taller fighters today because of his style: take shots to give shots. Someone like vitali k. would k-o joe frazier very easily just because of his style, someone like danny williams could probably easily beat frazier also because of his style of fighting

Ok. If you believe that VK and Lennox could keep Joe out with their jabs and slow hands then you obviously haven't seen Joe in action or you saw him but didn't pay close enough attention to how he fights.

holyfield,tyson,lewis and vitali would gave him trouble. but he still would do very well.

Frazier would beat everyone and unify the title if he fought in his prime today.

Lewis has a suspect chin. I think Lewis would get Kayoed if Frazier ever got inside.

Vitaly imo still needs to prove himself... his best fight is one in which he lost with that eye and whether or not he was ahead on points, Lewis caused that cut with a punch. Other than that Corrie Sanders and Kirk Johnson aren't even close to the opposition Frazier has faced.

Joe Frazier, as he is now, can still swing though. I got clocked by him personally with a right hook in the jaw during a training session. As for current fighters, I don't know. But he's still gotta a whole lot of heart and fight in him...

Smokin Joe would still be smokin. He probably would have unified the belts in under 2 years.

Frazier against V Klistchko: Frazier by stoppage TKO 11 Frazier would wear him down and never stop going forward he would taste the canvase maybe a couple times but his stamina would make the difference he would volume punch Klistchko to oblivion and occasionaly land the big left hook wearing Klistchko down to be stopped in the 11th

Frazier against W KListchko: Frazier Ko 4

Frazier agaisnt prime Holyfield 1992: Holyfield by UD in fight of the year, Frazier tasts teh canvas off a big uppercut in the 7th. Making the difference in the fight.

Frazier against Golota 1996: Frazier by Golota quitting in 11 after being frustarted that Frazier took so many shots and been knocked down so many times and is still coming forward and still so strong and starting to take over and hurting Golota bad while Golota is out of gas. Golota self defeating personality prevails he quits while ahead on the cards by like 14 points in the end of round 11 in a 12 fight. He is ahead by 14 points from winning every round but 1 and knocked Frazier down 3 times.

Frazier vs current Tyson: Frazier TKO 5

Frazier vs Byrd: Frazier by KO 9

Frazier vs John Ruiz: Frazier UD

Frazier vs Lennox Lewis: Frazier by KO 10 Lewis wins alot of rounds more or less keeping Frazier at bay with the jab but one big shot, one big left hook catches Lewis off guard in the 10th. Lewis in this fight tries to fight an overly cautious fight and at times Frazier's inside work hurts Lewis which aids him knocking Lennox out in the 10th. If Lewis threw more straight rights in addition to the left jab he would have knocked Frazier out but he fought to conservatively. He was afraid to throw the right because of the counter left hook of Frazier, and afraid to commit to any big power punches.

Frazier against V Klistchko: Frazier by stoppage TKO 11 Frazier would wear him down and never stop going forward he would taste the canvase maybe a couple times but his stamina would make the difference he would volume punch Klistchko to oblivion and occasionaly land the big left hook wearing Klistchko down to be stopped in the 11th

Frazier against W KListchko: Frazier Ko 4

Frazier agaisnt prime Holyfield 1992: Holyfield by UD in fight of the year, Frazier tasts teh canvas off a big uppercut in the 7th. Making the difference in the fight.

Frazier against Golota 1996: Frazier by Golota quitting in 11 after being frustarted that Frazier took so many shots and been knocked down so many times and is still coming forward and still so strong and starting to take over and hurting Golota bad while Golota is out of gas. Golota self defeating personality prevails he quits while ahead on the cards by like 14 points in the end of round 11 in a 12 fight. He is ahead by 14 points from winning every round but 1 and knocked Frazier down 3 times.

Frazier vs current Tyson: Frazier TKO 5

Frazier vs Byrd: Frazier by KO 9

Frazier vs John Ruiz: Frazier UD

Frazier vs Lennox Lewis: Frazier by KO 10 Lewis wins alot of rounds more or less keeping Frazier at bay with the jab but one big shot, one big left hook catches Lewis off guard in the 10th. Lewis in this fight tries to fight an overly cautious fight and at times Frazier's inside work hurts Lewis which aids him knocking Lennox out in the 10th. If Lewis threw more straight rights in addition to the left jab he would have knocked Frazier out but he fought to conservatively. He was afraid to throw the right because of the counter left hook of Frazier, and afraid to commit to any big power punches.

how can frazer knock out both tyson and lewis but not holyfield? :confused: tyson and lewis would make pannkake of frazier.

how can frazer knock out both tyson and lewis but not holyfield? :confused: tyson and lewis would make pannkake of frazier.

It said Frazier vs Current Tyson: 233 pounds age 39

And Lewis lost because he fought to conservative of a fight and was afraid to commit to powerpunches in fear of being caught with Fraziers left hook as a counterpunch.