I think the bible is based on some true history like the story of david who was actually a very hated king. But others parts are stories that were made up to teach morals. With all the editing that have happened to the bible it's hard to say what is true and what is. Like what happen to jesus in his teen years. Some say it's banned because of the story of jesus bring back to life a childhood friend who died when he fell off a roof. Some say it that those parts of bible were taking out because jesus wasn't the best person he could be in those years from about 5 to 18 and it was taking out to prevent the loss of respect for him.

Truth is that the bible can't really be a good source of history because of the religious overtones in it, it becomes very hard to use as a tool for uncovering history with out outside eviadence. But teir are some facts in that that really happened. So do you think that the men that edited the bible did a injustice to history?

people will say that the "man edited the Bible" theory is an undeniable reason as to why the Bible can't be trusted. they like to use the "well you never know......it COULDA happend" case. and by using that, it opens the door to making our entire history a complete lie.

with that in mind, there was never a history. the world started when you were born. it's been fabricated by the cosmos and they're using you as an experiment on human reactions towards various experiences until they decide to finally unravel a real, actual life-sustaining planet. every person in your life is an illusion hired by the cosmos to bring you altercations, changes, challenges, and other human emotions that are being carefully noted above.

You should check out a book called Holy Blood, Holy Grail Gman.Some of the most learned and respected theologians and historians make all these contentions that are far more likely to have occured than what the Bible states in regards to Jesus, his wife, her lineage, and their children. In answer to your question; some of the Bible is historically true, some of it is inaccurate, and some of it is a compilation of impossible stories that have been fabricated or embellished over time for whatever reason. There aren't any real curveballs, just about what you'd expect about a document written 2,000 years ago on how to live, where we came from, and what happens when we die from an era before we had the knowledge and understanding that we have today.

Blue, but you need to remember that there are even limits to science; things and limits that our sciences and understanding can’t explain... yet people still claim that science is absolute and disregard the bible as “un-proven.” Of course science is only proven because it can be re-created for proof, however since the events that happened in the bible-era cannot be recreated, (just like all history can’t be re-created), people decide not to believe it since they cannot see it happen with their own eyes. With that said, do you also disregard other historical events that are comparable in proof with the bible events, that we have in our high-school history books?

I know that science has limits and by no means am I saying it's absolute, but it's the best method we have if logic, intelligence, and truth are important to us and anyway science is constantly improving exponentially and at a staggering pace. As far as disregarding what is said in other history books in school, that depends on the information now available. We now know that Columbus wasn't the first person who discovered North America because of new evidence that has surfaced, so that should be disregarded by those seeking the truth. I'm just saying that we should go with the evidence. I don't know if you're familiar with Occam's razor but time and time again, it has proven it's value and it's principals should not be disregarded because it might make some people uncomfortable by taking them outside of their paradigm of a divine faith. Hell, I'm not even saying that there is no creator or prime mover or whatever the hell you want to call the catalyst that led to our existence. What I am saying is that blind faith should NEVER be traded for rationality and logic. If people want to believe that's great, it just drives me up the ****ing wall when ANY type of religious zealot, christian, muslim, hindu whatever the **** tries to act like something with no basis in fact is superior than empirical evidence and scientific method on an intellectual level. If some one wants religion because it's more comforting than scientific theory, that's fine, I can certainly understand that, but don't try to impose your beliefs on others by pretending that it's the "RIGHT" or morally superior or a smarter way just because it's what you've been told . We all have to find our path, so to those of you that are always pushing your views and putting down differing ones that have a basis in fact, physics, empirical or observable evidence.....you can shoot yourself in the ****ing head and the world will be better off.

Again, I know science doesn't explain everything yet, and somethings it never will be able to explain...like the meaning of life. We have to find that meaning on our own. An interesting idea that had me pondering metaphysics(for those that don't know, meta just means beyond) the other day, was oddly enough....a product of scientific discovery. Did you know that 10 years ago, all of our cells were different? In 10 years, every one of our cells and molecules have regenerated from the old matter that was our physical bodies into new matter through the materials that we have ingested like food, air everything that makes up this meat bag we call our bodies including our brain cells. So if our brain cells are no longer the same ones we had 10 years ago, how do we remember stuff we learned longer then 10 years ago....like riding a bike or our 5th birthday? No one really knows, but someday we will and I'm willing to bet it'll be someone from the scientific community rather than a pastor, a rabbi, or a Jihad fanatic that will lead us to the truth.

The problem with all the religion people that clam that religion is the best trhing ever is that they have a fear of the unknow. Whewn they die they are going to see the wasted thier life on some stupid religion. They can't live for them selves and they pick the first thing their stupid parents tell them is right. Reilgion is a comfort blanket to some people.

well my first theory derived from this thread is that gman HAS to be drinking a bottle of jack daniels before every post he makes.

to touch on blue's comment:
i don't try to shove my belief down anyone's throat. if you ask, i answer. and that's no different then you stating your belief. as a matter of fact, most christians are just like me as well. and i am a lot better vouch for that statement because i hang out with more christians than anyone on this board. chalking "religious people" up as people that carry themselves like they're better than you is no different then saying all persians are terrorists.

now i've said before that the reason i am confident on every single thing in the Bible as absolute truth is because i have applied God in my life and my life has been awesome ever since. i've run into WAYYY more problems and challenges since being a christian but have always tried my best to carry the type of attitude that the Bible taught. with that in mind, i get over my problems, learn from them, and grow stonger every day.
and there aint a muther****er out there who knows me in person that can say otherwise.

i don't chalk my love for life up to my own accomplishments or anything else except for God. this is just one of the many life lessons that the Bible taught me. king david was a good example. and so does it matter that one version of the Bible said david killed goliath a "slingshot" and the other said with a "spear"?? **** no!

you guys miss the entire point of the Bible. how many times do i have to tell you that it's not a college textbook? how many times do i have to tell you that if you sincerely give God a try that your outcome would be different? how many times does God tell you in the Bible that the more you try to test his word, the more you just confuse your own self? yet nobody ever gives it a try. you all just sit there and read and then come up with theories like kids in a science class.

all i hear are minor translation and geneological errors that you're not even SURE OF as sheer evidence that God's word is untrue. so if it makes you feel better for the confusion that this whole thing brings you then more power to you. everytime people can't get solid answers to **** then they always fall back on pride. it's in our instinct to credit ourselves for everything and hate anything superior.

and then there's the LOGIC thing. yeah like we know everything. one thing mankind has had from the start is that it's ALWAYS learning and revising and improving and changing. yet God's commands have always remained the same. and you wanna talk about SOLID reasoning??

so what's your evidence on your beliefs? theories derived from addressing something in a completely incorrect fashion.
what's my evidence in my beliefes? my own ****in life. that's more solid then any hypothesis you can dig up.

I hate to break this to you, but there's a hell of a lot of happy people that live good lives with out the Bible and your version of God. If you wanna call your "awesome" life evidence that the Bible is absolute truth, well then somebody is pretty deluded. That "evidence" is no more valid than a happy atheist claiming that his happy life is proof that there is no God. Also, what you call God's commands, are pretty much the same "guidleines" that most world religions, philosophies, and self help books espouse. It's ****ing common sense to not murder people, **** your neighbors wife, and live an untruthful dishonorable life. If you love your neighbor and treat others like you want to be treated no **** that you'll have less problems in society. Those assertions have been around a hell of alot longer than the Bible. The ancient greeks and many groups from the far east have produced tons of literature with similair belief systems of how to cunduct oneself thousands of years before a single page of the Bible was ever conceived. Gods commands remain the same huh? I guess an eye for an eye=turn the other cheek?

Anyway, if the Bible and your religion helps you out, great. Following what you think are God's commands makes your life awesome, also great. Just don't act like there is any rhyme, reason, or intellectuall basis for your beliefs, there isn't. It's based on faith because under close scrutiny it falls apart. Millions of people have awesome lives that follow a different belief system. Living a good life life without ****ing people over just increases your chances of avoiding problems. Socrates said that justice is it's own reward. The reason for that is with theft, crime, and evil and destructive behavior in general society and the individual suffer so conversely if people help each other and conduct themselves in a just and loving, compassionate manner not only will society benefit, but they themselves will benefit. It's just common sense. As far measuring ideas from some of the greatest thinkers that humanity has ever produced, or what you called some hypothesis that I dug up(this of course isn't the right word, a hypothesis is merely the first step in scientific method) against the "awesomeness" of your life as "SOLID" "evidence" of your beliefs, well let's just say LOL.

i hate to break it to you but i never said there weren't other people who enjoy their lives. you keep thinking that i got this "holier than thou" attitude which i already addressed wasn't the case in regards to my spiritual beliefs. i simply told you WHY i believe WHAT i believe. and it's not just the basic commands of love and respect towards eachother. to me, the commandments are listed in order of priority (see #1)

trying to compare "eye for-an-eye" to "turn-the-other-cheek" is like comparing capital punishment to being the bigger man and forgiving someone who wronged you in a particular situation. one is a law to help govern the people, the other is a guideline on how to conduct yourself around others. you knew that already so quit trying to stir more **** up.

and i'm not trying to prove an intellectual base on my beliefs. how many times do i have to say it? spiritual manners will always come off silly through an intellectual base. that's like saying that you firmly believe your mother loves you.....yet you don't have any physical, tangible proof. you don't need physical proof for **** like that. when you tell someone that you love them, and it comes from the heart, do they ask to have it documented and notarized???

you act as if faith is inferior to human logic and reasoning. faith is the root of every great accomplishment on the planet. and now it's undermined because you can't see it in the way that you demand to see? you still refuse to look at a spiritual issue through spiritual eyes because you're more comfortable looking at everything through a scientific stance. like i said, more power to you. but don't knock me for my way of looking at it cause i think i've stated my stance pretty clear as well.

so you know of some of the greatest thinkers that humanity has produced that back your ideas? congrats. i know of some of the greatest thinkers that side with my idea. whoop-dee-****in-doo. if anything, the majority of humanity's greatest HUMANITARIANS have cited God as their source of inspiration. but that's beside the point. the point was that people have a common history of being flawed & corrected. God doesn't. there's some things that i'll put my trust in logic from mankind but never will i if it conflicts with the word of God.

satanism rules!!! GO SATAN!!!

You rang?

you still refuse to look at a spiritual issue through spiritual eyes because you're more comfortable looking at everything through a scientific stance.

Exactly. I was trying to explain this to one of my Christian friends because he was really frustrated at atheists who just like to babble in philosophical circles around the facts of the bible, instead of trying to open up their heart to the meaning behind the stories. A man can read the bible his whole life, he can memorize it, he can study every aspect of it; but if he doesn’t open up his heart to it and look at it through spiritual eyes, he will never understand it.


On a side note, Blue: You claim to know that Christians are believing in a Bible that has no proof of divinity, but you contradict yourself by claiming that you know that the Bible is not divinely inspired. To know that it is not real, is to acknowledge that you know for a fact the truth of divinity, so you’re able to discern which is “of” God and which is “not of” God. But because you don’t know the absolute truth, (and I’m guessing you are not spiritual at all), at least say that “it doesn’t seem that this would be the truth,” instead of saying that the bible is a load of crap. Then once you get rid of a hostile approach, list the specific reasons that you don’t believe in the bible, and we’ll then tell you why we still believe in the bible despite your list of reasons.. and if Purity doesn’t, I’ll address every one of your “contradictions” or “lies.”

Exactly.
On a side note, Blue: You claim to know the absolute to life as to which religion(s) are not real, but you contradict yourself by claiming that you know that the Bible is not divinely inspired. To know that it is not real, is to acknowledge that you know for a fact the truth of divinity, so you’re able to discern which is “of” God and which is “not of” God. But because you don’t know the absolute truth, (and I’m guessing are not spiritual at all), at least say that “it doesn’t seem that this would be the truth,” instead of saying that the bible is a load of crap. Then once you get rid of a hostile approach, list the specific reasons that you don’t believe in the bible, and we’ll then tell you why we still believe in the bible despite your list of reasons.. and if Purity doesn’t, I’ll address every one of your “contradictions” or “lies.”

First, I never made and never would make such a ridiculous claim. Only the religious claim to know "the absolute to life". In a nutshell, I merely stated it will be scientific method and empirical evidence that will lead us to truth. I also never said that the Bible was a load of crap. The Bible has some historical accuracies and helps many people lead a better life with time tested and common principals of conduct that are a part of nearly every other world religion. I also stated that what peeves me is how many Christians just assume that their beliefs are true and right and everyone else is wrong, I'm guessing that's why you interpret my poking holes in Bible doctrine as hostile. The fact remains that much of what is written in the Bible is easily proven to be impossible and is clearly factually flawed by the limited resources available 2,000 years ago. What we know of physics, cosmosology, biology, paleontology and geology today should make it clear that much of the Bible is just not true.

Genesis asserts that God created the world in 7 days and in this span all the living creatures were created. Dinosaurs were around millions of years before that, yet there not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. The logistics of building and arc and putting 2 of every species on it would be impossible even with today's technology and super tankers. Parting an ocean is .....oh **** why even go on?...Your beliefs aren't even rooted in logic or fact, just unproveable faith. No that faith is always bad, but it shouldn't come at the expense of knowledge and tolerance. That's the way of the fanatical. I don't think you thoroughly read my posts mouse, maybe you should.

i can't go back in history and say what happend. neither can you. with that in mind, history can only be concluded by what each individual puts his faith into.

you put your faith into what your mind tells you. i put mine into what my spirit tells me. now i dunno about your sitch but i can vouch for myself when i say that:
my mind lets me down everyday. my spirit uplifts me everyday and keeps me going. i trust my spirit.



we all put our faith into whatever we trust.