And now some truth hits the surface regarding John Kerry "The Almighty War Hero" with POINTLESS, NON-DESERVED PURPLE HEARTS AND LIES. Thats right *****es, I said POINTLESS AND NON-DESERVED PURPLE HEARTS AND LIES..... MAD LIES. He has lied about alot according to these men. Men who served with him, they have came forth, they are known as Swift Boat Captains..... a dozen of the 20 men are speaking out, and out of the 20 men, 3 are now dead, which leaves 12 out of 17 men that served with John Kerry have all spoken up and come forth to speak on the real John Kerry, not the one we see, and they are not so much pissed about him lying about how he got his purple hearts, but more so pissed at his aqusations in regards to them and what really happened.

Kerry has done nothing but **** on everyone to paint a perfect picture of himself. Alot of these guys he served with are pissed.... going on to say that he served 4 months while the rest of them served 1 year, as Kerry ducked out quick and made stupid, ***** excuses to go home.



Swift Boat Captain #1: "I've seen guys kill and be killed, Kerry was'nt around for any of that, he bailed out at his first chance".

Swift Boat Captain #2: "I've seen men earn purple hearts DESERVINGLY, Kerry grabbed what he could, and as quick as he came.... he left. John Kerry is no war hero". "John Kerry's heroism is fraudulent, he is an unfit Comander and Cheif".

Interviewer: "He did serve 4 months which is more than our current president. That should count for something, right?"...
Swift Boat Captain #3: "Don't you think we would be happy if one of our own were to become the United States Comander and Cheif? We would hoist him up over our shoulders and celebrate. John Kerry would have done our country better by not serving 4 months of lies, he is no war hero, and he ... by far.... does not deserve anything he has said to accomplish, let alone a seat in the white house".


They are talking about how the interviews with these men, in full detail, will be on tv sometime Monday. I'm trying to find out on what channel but as of now, they just keep refering to "tv" and not mentioning what channel. I'm guessing they want me to listen to this whole talk show and they'll prolly announce it at the end... whenever the hell that is.

:****you:

Yeah, I got mad when I heard this before, until I found out that none of thoses people actually served on a boat with Kerry. Also, John McCain coming out and saying that he was offended by that ad, and that it was full of B.S.

They seem to be mad at him because when he came home he talked about the horrors of what went on over there. He said it was wrong and people were commiting war crimes over there. I can understand why they would be mad at him, but I don't think it makes him unfit to lead. In fact, I put more stock in the words of the man that said "In Vietnam, John Kerry saved my life". He spoke at the DNC and at the very least it counts just as much as these people that are pissed at Kerry for telling the world that some of them were commiting war crimes.

Yeah, I got mad when I heard this before, until I found out that none of thoses people actually served on a boat with Kerry. Also, John McCain coming out and saying that he was offended by that ad, and that it was full of B.S.

They seem to be mad at him because when he came home he talked about the horrors of what went on over there. He said it was wrong and people were commiting war crimes over there. I can understand why they would be mad at him, but I don't think it makes him unfit to lead. In fact, I put more stock in the words of the man that said "In Vietnam, John Kerry saved my life". He spoke at the DNC and at the very least it counts just as much as these people that are pissed at Kerry for telling the world that some of them were commiting war crimes.

Took the words right out of my mouth. These critics hold a grudge against Kerry for his anti-war stance back in the 70s. They apparently haven't gotten over it, and they're doing everything they can to distort the truth.

By the way, is that the best the Republican party can do? Trying to smear a war veteran, a man who actually volunteered to go to Vietnam and didn't act like a gigantic ***** by dodging the draft entirely (e.g. GOP heroes Dick Cheney, Trent Lott, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilley, John Ashcroft, and of course, George Bush). Like him or not, at least Kerry had the ****ing balls to speak his mind about the war.

And if we're going to lose our hair over war stories and such, let's talk about Bush's tall tales. So let's just say that Kerry exaggerated and never saw a bullet come his way during the war. But at least he was there.

Where was Bush?

While our GI's were getting slaughtered over in Vietnam, ol' Dumbya was protecting the Texas border from Arkansas. And if we're going to call people out on the fabrication of war records, why hasn't the truth come out about Bush going AWOL for an entire year while in the Guard? I guess we'll never find out will we.

http://www.africana.com/newswire/homepage_article.asp?ID=745

If you can spot a lie from the begining, what do you think will come afloat while hes in office? Is it just me or is there just no real person out there that has the money to campaign that would actually be the perfect leader? IMO our options to choose from are limited and ****ty. I am not sided nor do I hate either canidate, I just have more reason to believe that Bush is better fit for the position. I'm open ears to hear why I should vote for Kerry, aside the usual "Bush is stupid". There are alot stupider than him, and personally I would rather not take that chance with John Kerry. Everyone paints a picture thats usually gets exagerated while running for office. Remember that. I felt the same way about Bush when he was elected. Believe that...... I voted for Gore. And with the choices we have today, I'm gonna stick with Bush until I see reason not to.

:****you:

If you can spot a lie from the begining, what do you think will come afloat while hes in office?

All the more reason not to vote for Bush, a man of little character who has told some of the biggest lies ever come out of the White House. The only difference here is that when Bush lies, people die.

List some reasons for voting for Bush.

****. Seriously, I hate people like you. I doubt you even understood what I ****in typed. I listed MY reasons why I am going to vote for Bush. I listed MY reasons why I am not voting for Kerry. But like I said, and have said 50 ****in times.... I am open minded. If someone(s) can convince me otherwise, then I'm voting Bush. I really don't give a **** who you or anyone else is voting for..... I'm not trying make you guys vote Bush, most of you are either closed-minded or already got your minds made up due to whatever references you guys use to support your decisions. Of course, you're one of those people I was talking about whos only arguement is "Bush is stupid". Please save this forum some space and shut the **** up. You're like a broken record.


All the more reason not to vote for Bush, a man of little character who has told some of the biggest lies ever come out of the White House. The only difference here is that when Bush lies, people die.

So you're only voting for Kerry in spite of Bush? You hate Bush, so Kerry must be better. Is that a simplistic way of descirbing your vote for Kerry? Otherwise, please elaborate. I'm just stating my understanding from most of the Kerry supporters. If I am wrong, I am open for correction. But as far as I see, its "Bush is stupid so Kerry gets a vote". I personally would like to see different canidates, but we're stuck with these options.

:****you:

So you're only voting for Kerry in spite of Bush? You hate Bush, so Kerry must be better. Is that a simplistic way of descirbing your vote for Kerry? Otherwise, please elaborate. I'm just stating my understanding from most of the Kerry supporters. If I am wrong, I am open for correction. But as far as I see, its "Bush is stupid so Kerry gets a vote". I personally would like to see different canidates, but we're stuck with these options.


People argue that voting is like choosing between the lesser of two evils. Well, when it comes to who is going to lead the most power nation on earth, its important that the lesser of two evils wins.

So you're only voting for Kerry in spite of Bush? You hate Bush, so Kerry must be better. Is that a simplistic way of descirbing your vote for Kerry? Otherwise, please elaborate. I'm just stating my understanding from most of the Kerry supporters. If I am wrong, I am open for correction. But as far as I see, its "Bush is stupid so Kerry gets a vote". I personally would like to see different canidates, but we're stuck with these options.

I think you're being a little harsh on Nuno here. He asked what were some of the reasons why you're voting for Bush. Yet in this thread, all you've stated was that "I'm going to stick with Bush until I see a reason not to." Nuno just wanted you to elaborate on some of your reasons why you're supporting Bush.

Here are just some reasons, some of which were outlined during his acceptance speech at the recent DNC and were pulled from his website, as to why I think Kerry is a better choice for America than Bush:

On the economy, Kerry's plan calls for a middle-class tax cut. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan. Bush's supply-side economics plan, where the wealthiest get the biggest tax cuts, to revitalize our economy just isn't working. Those tax cuts for the wealth, families making more than $200,000 a year, will be rolled back.
His economic plan also includes:
-A tax credit on up to $4,000 of college tuition
-A tax credit to help small businesses and vulnerable workers pay for health care
-A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses

Since Bush has taken office, here's what happened to our country:
--4 million have lost health insurance
--1.8 million jobs have been lost
--4 million have dropped out of high school.

Kerry will end the tax breaks for companies that "outsource" jobs overseas. Instead, he will invest in American innovation and technology, which Clinton did through his SBIC (Small Business Investment Company) program. Kerry's MANBIC initiative is modeled on SBIC. SBIC provides venture capital and start-up financing to small businesses, many of which have grown into large corporations employing millions of Americans. Companies like Intel, America Online, Apple Computers, Staples, Federal Express, and Sun Microsystems all got their start with help from SBIC. MANBIC will create added incentives for venture-capital investment in medium-sized manufacturing firms, which are crucial in developing and sustaining new products, new production methods, and new markets.

Kerry said at the convention: “We’re here today to say that a stronger America at home and in the world is an America that is free and independent of Mideast oil." Kerry's administration will create an “Energy Security Trust Fund” that will encourage the development of new clean fuels and technologies of the future. The plan aims to promote the diversification of energy sources like natural gas, coal, renewable and nuclear energy.

On health care, Kerry's plan includes:
--Covering catastrophic care, which could reduce the average annual premium for a family by up to $1,000 each year
--Making prescription drugs more affordable by requiring HHS to negotiate better prices; allowing reimportation so Americans can get the discounts available in Canada; requiring transparency rules for Pharmacy Benefit Managers that do business with the Federal government; and helping states provide discounts to other populations through more efficient contracting.
--Using technology to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse in the health care system by simplifying medical administrative and reporting systems.*These innovations can reduce the $1.6 trillion annual cost of medical care by approximately 25 percent.**

On the environment, Kerry's record in the senate speaks for itself. While senator, Kerry:
--Advocated strict enforcement of the Clean Air Act and Clean*Water Act, and opposed Bush administration efforts to weaken the laws in order to let polluters put more dangerous toxics into the air and water
--Advocated restoration of Superfund's "polluter pays" trust fund to ensure that polluters, not ordinary taxpayers, pay to clean up abandoned toxic waste sites
--Led the charge against the Bush administration’s attempts to allow oil drilling in the pristine Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
--Championed an energy plan that increases fuel economy to reduce the nation’s dependence on oil and supports the development of clean, energy-saving technologies and renewable energy to reduce our dependence on other polluting sources of energy
--And, advocated for the United States to take the lead in international efforts to cut global warming pollution, reverse ozone depletion, protect tropical rain forests, preserve biological diversity and press for sustainable development

Here's Bush's environmental record:
--He proposed a rule change in January, 2003 that would have threatened the health of 20 million acres of wetlands.
-- He also proposed to defer controls on mercury emissions by power plants for at least a decade.
--Bush has also refused to reinstate the Superfund Tax that forces polluters to pay for the cleanup of toxic waste sites.*His refusal has passed a $10 billion burden from polluters to tax payers.*The Bush Administration has slowed the pace of cleaning up Superfund sites by almost 40 percent compared to the Clinton years.

These are just some of the reasons why I'm going with Kerry.

:****you:

This was the closest thing to a reason that I could find in your posts. Do you have a better reason?

Also do you support the Iraqi war he started?

BTW What's with the anger? Chill out Timmy.

Its my overall point. If you read word-for-word what I typed and let it soak in for a second, you'd prolly understand. You're always the only one that asks that I spell it out like I'm teaching to a ****in retard. No anger, I just hate your responses. Its the same lame ass responses that play like a broken-****in-record. If you STILL don't understand after our paragraphs of arguements going back and forth on this matter, aside from this thread, then I can't really attempt at trying to explaining **** to you. You obviously are set in what you believe in and read what you want to see... not what "I" am actually saying. Its cool, I just figured out that all I have to do from here on out is skip over most of your posts. Have a nice day. :)



People argue that voting is like choosing between the lesser of two evils. Well, when it comes to who is going to lead the most power nation on earth, its important that the lesser of two evils wins.

True. Very true. I wish I had more options. However, I can't really sit here and say that Kerry is the lesser of 2 evils, technically speaking. You'd think us, as "the people" would have decifered that when most of this nation voted Bush over Gore, but we did'nt (well, I did, but as a nation we did'nt). Why is that? Probably because we had'nt the privledge of actually knowing "hands on" what Bush was really about and how he would handle the situations brought forth to him. Same with Kerry. We're going off of what? How "stupid" our current president is and what John Kerry tells us? Thats a little niave if you ask me. **** needs to be looked into with more depth, when most just go with their feelings they have for our current president, rather than weighing out those options with what Kerry has already suposed to have brought to the table. Everyone has these views of what they would do if in Bush's position, and Kerry, of course, is going to tell everyone what they want to hear, which is what the people think Bush should do as a leader, but is'nt. Will that win votes? Of course. Thats my main point. Bush did too..... and now what? Everyone regrets that decision. All I'm saying is that people should make educated votes or not vote at all coz you can just hurt our country more than it already is. Regardless of who is "stupid", there is always someone that is "stupider" than that person. If you think Bush will be the only stupidest thing to hit the white house, you're wrong. Uneducated votes got him in office. Remember that.

I think you're being a little harsh on Nuno here. He asked what were some of the reasons why you're voting for Bush. Yet in this thread, all you've stated was that "I'm going to stick with Bush until I see a reason not to." Nuno just wanted you to elaborate on some of your reasons why you're supporting Bush.

Nuno's a big boy, he can handle it. He should know why I am voting for Bush at this moment. I could give a **** what I said in this thread, I've argued about this subject with him over maybe 10 threads. Sorry the ****er has to actually read a explanation rather than a general "because I said" answer. If he does'nt understand it by now.... **** him. I'm not here to repeat myself over and over until he completely understands. If he was my kid, I'd understand having to do that, but hes not.

Btw, those look like some stable reasons, which I can respect. I kinda brisked over them so give me a few to read and post. I'm working and its like hell is freezing over up in this ***** today. Mad drama up in the office.



Now Dogg, what are your reasons?

You're a ****in lame. Really. You can't speak for youself?

DOGGx0: Enlighten me other than "Bush is stupid".

Nuno: Bush is stupid.

DOGGx0: Please, something different for once.

mmafanman: *posts reasons*

Nuno: Yeah! What he said.


Do you not have opinions? You just leach off of others? Whatever sounds good for the day? Lame. Die a horrible, short death and leave my country. Thank you.

You'd think us, as "the people" would have decifered that when most of this nation voted Bush over Gore, but we did'nt (well, I did, but as a nation we did'nt).

Wrong. Gore got more than a half a million more votes than Bush did. And that's a fact. Gore lost because his brother is the governor of Florida, and he's got a lot of sympathizers in the Supreme Court.

By the way, here's more great domestic news for you to soak in. Associated Press just released this story as Bush campaigned in New Hampshire. Here's an excerpt:

"The nation's economy added 32,000 jobs in July, representing the smallest gain in hiring since December. Analysts were expecting the economy to add anywhere from 215,000 to 247,000 jobs in July.
Monthly job growth of 200,000 to 300,000 is regarded by many economists as a yardstick for healthy economic recovery.
"Today's employment report shows our economy is continuing to move forward," Bush told the crowd in the only Northeastern state he won in the 2000 election.
"We're in a changing economy and we've got more to do," said the president, who was making his third trip of the year to New Hampshire.
In addition to the meager job gain for July, the government revised the June employment report, showing a gain of just 78,000 jobs, even less than previously reported. May's payrolls also were revised down to show a gain of 208,000."

Bush is right. We've got a changing economy. It's changing for the worse.

:****you:

Wrong. Gore got more than a half a million more votes than Bush did. And that's a fact. Gore lost because his brother is the governor of Florida, and he's got a lot of sympathizers in the Supreme Court.

Actually I am not wrong. Regardless of how many votes he got the first time around, he did'nt win. So us as a country, we take fault for that decision made by whoever the **** it was made by. IMO, you just gave a lame explanation of why Bush won. You really think that Bush won because someone's brother is a governor? I'm wrong? You're wrong. Its because there were many proposed felons who had their voting rights taken away, due to felonies. Everyone knows, if you're a felon, you can't vote. So alot of their votes were scratched and deemed not official. In the interim, the voting is ultamitely decided by the Supreme Court over the voters.

http://www.globalmma.com/Adam/bush_gore_chart.jpg

Heres a full outline of what happened:
(From the NY Times)


How Bush Lost Florida But Won
In The Supreme Court And The Media

Ever since Bush was selected by the Supreme Court by a vote of 5-4 to take over the U.S. presidency, the Dems have said that a fair and thorough recounting of the Florida vote would prove that Gore won. While the jury is still out on whether the reported Consortium recount, published late Sunday November 11, was fair and thorough, let's assume that it was. What does it tell us? It tells us that Gore won the Florida electoral vote, the U.S. Supreme Court took the presidency away from him, and the media is wrong in reporting otherwise. Here's how Bush lost Florida.

First, it is an established fact that Gore beat Bush in the national popular vote by over a half million votes. Secondly, Consortium interpretations of the voting data conclude that thousands more people voted for Gore in Florida than Bush. The problem for Gore is that many more votes in his favor, such as the Palm Beach butterfly votes, were declared invalid than similar votes for Bush. Third, discounting such unretrievable invalid votes, Consortium interpretations, which allow only fully-punched ballot cards and correctly marked optical scaned ballots, conclude that Gore still beat Bush in a statewide recount in Florida by a thin margin of over 100 votes. Which brings us back to the Supreme Court decision.

In its Dec. 12 decision the Supreme Court indicated that its conclusions were based upon equal protection law, and decided that in order to have equal voter protection in Florida the entire state should be recounted. However, even though there were weeks left for such a recount prior to the formal reception of the states' electoral college votes in Congress, the court decided that there wasn't enough time for such a recount, so five of nine members of the court decided, along party lines, to select Bush as the winner in Florida. The Consortium data indicates that they were wrong to think that Bush had won the popular vote in Florida. At any rate, in its Dec. 12 decision the Court made clear that if it hadn't selected Bush, its fallback decision would have been to call for a statewide election, since it considered the case to be a matter of equal rights. It further indicated that not taking a position on the matter was not an option.

Strangely, not one media member of the Consortium has reached the conclusion that if the Supreme Court had not selected Bush, Gore would have won the election by a Florida recount. Instead, in every instance of Consortium reporting, the big headlines say the data shows Bush won with more "valid votes," that he won because of the partial recount mandated by the Florida Supreme Court, or that he won because he would have had more votes than Gore under Gore's recount request. Buried in some of the stories are the six ways that Gore could have won. However, all of these suppositions are moot.

The unvarnished fact is that the U.S. Supreme Court had the final say on the election, not the Consortium voting data, and, left with the choice of giving the election back to the people of Florida through a statewide recount or selecting Bush, they selected Bush. That's what makes the New York Times headline for the Consortium story particularly egregious: "Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast The Deciding Vote." While the headline represents a badly needed attempt to restore credibility to the U.S. Supreme Court, it fails on the facts and it fails because the media cannot do what the Court, itself, has failed to do since its politicized decision in the case of Bush vs. Gore.

**** this thread. I should no better than to argue with anyone other than Purity. At least he makes some valid points and knows how to talk to people.

**** this thread. I should no better than to argue with anyone other than Purity. At least he makes some valid points and knows how to talk to people.


I make valid points over and over. You don't. I bring data to the table. You make the same, lame ass, one-lined, repeated posts (which I am sick of so I would rather post about that coz it gets you all mad n stuff). And when you have nothing left to say or end up lookin stupid.... you resort back to your feelings and get all butt hurt. Purity knows how to talk to people? Hes much harsher than I am. Trust me.

Now go hug a tree.

i don't really care about the presidential stances. my vote won't make a difference. none of yours will either. with that in mind, i'd like to throw out two great pointers:

1) mmafan knows his ****. i didn't read all of it but big ups on doin yer homework.
2) dogg shouldn't wish a horrible QUICK death on nunyo. if you wish a horrible death on someone, might as well make it MORE horrible by making it long.

A single vote doesn't matter, but people can vote on mass. Stratigeic voting works. You only need to look at the last Canadian election to see that.

Actually I am not wrong. Regardless of how many votes he got the first time around, he did'nt win. So us as a country, we take fault for that decision made by whoever the **** it was made by. IMO, you just gave a lame explanation of why Bush won. You really think that Bush won because someone's brother is a governor? I'm wrong? You're wrong. Its because there were many proposed felons who had their voting rights taken away, due to felonies. Everyone knows, if you're a felon, you can't vote. So alot of their votes were scratched and deemed not official. In the interim, the voting is ultamitely decided by the Supreme Court over the voters.

Wow, looks like we opened up Pandora's box once again. If we're going to talk about disenfranchised Florida voters, inconsistencies in the butterfly ballots, the supressed African American vote, how the Supreme Court politicized the ultimate election decision, I suggest you watch the documentary "Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election" by filmmakers Joan Sekler and Richard Ray Perez. That will basically sum up how I feel about the 2000 elections.

Go buy it here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001Y4LZA/qid=1091828306/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl74/102-4725063-7927308?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
Read a review here:
http://www.blogcritics.org/archives/2003/04/12/225700.php


You cannot deny the fact, however, that America did speak in 2000 and a half million more voters decided to go with Gore. Until we amend the electoral college, which is severely outdated, **** like this can happen again.

We can go back and forth on the 2000 elections, but it's all irrelevant. This thread is ultimately about Bush vs. Kerry. Ralph Nader said it best: "A campaign should focus on America's hopes, not its fears."

Keep that in mind when you vote.

I have described what dogs first post says numerous times

also read my kerry boat quotes thread

I have described what dogs first post says numerous times

also read my kerry boat quotes thread

Oh wow, you side with someone thats against Kerry. I am SHOCKED.

I make valid points over and over. You don't. I bring data to the table. You make the same, lame ass, one-lined, repeated posts (which I am sick of so I would rather post about that coz it gets you all mad n stuff). And when you have nothing left to say or end up lookin stupid.... you resort back to your feelings and get all butt hurt. Purity knows how to talk to people? Hes much harsher than I am. Trust me.

Now go hug a tree.

I'm just going to quick arguing politics. I have my views, I just suck at arguing about politics. I need to post in the MMA board more. Arivederci..............

well thanx alot dogg. ya ran off nunyo. and since bacon boy went on the m.i.a. list, now all i can do is pick on creed. that's gonna get old pretty quick.

I think it's funny how that was a indepent ad and wasn't connected to the bush party at all. It never showed proof that any of these guys talking were in nam with kerry for a long amount of time. Fact is we know kerry went to nam which is a hell of alot closer to the war then bush was.

well thanx alot dogg. ya ran off nunyo. and since bacon boy went on the m.i.a. list, now all i can do is pick on creed. that's gonna get old pretty quick.

I'll still argue morals with you if you like. I just not into researching and ****(which is something you need to do in order to argue politics.)

Hi

What up Edu?

I just want to say that, unlike Bush, even Adolf Hitler won the popular vote with his Nazi Party.

Doing better, mang... The flu got me all weak and ****.

I woke up with a stomach virus, bro. Going home in about an hour.