View Full Version : Did Ray Robinson avoid burley because deep down he knew charley would have his number


Joey Giardello
05-10-2009, 11:47 PM
And beat him? I think if burley would of been given more chances it would be him and not robinson who left the mark on the sport as as the best ever fighter. Eddie futch also said burley was the best, jake la motta also claimed he was one of the best he ever seen. Burley was avoided by billy conn, jake la motta and of course ray robinson

Silencers
05-11-2009, 01:50 AM
I think Robinson would have fought Burley had the money been there, I think the main reason he didn't fight him was because Burley was because Burley was a high risk, low reward guy.

nomercy90
05-11-2009, 02:41 AM
Sugar's manager stated in interviews that Burley was the only fighter he wouldn't let Sugar fight, saying his style was all wrong for Robinson.

It should also be noted that Archie Moore claimed Burley was the best fighter he ever faced. High praise from someone who faced virtually every top light heavywieght and heavyweight from one of boxing's greatest eras.

Thread Stealer
05-11-2009, 04:12 AM
It should also be noted that Archie Moore claimed Burley was the best fighter he ever faced. High praise from someone who faced virtually every top light heavywieght and heavyweight from one of boxing's greatest eras.

Yeah, Moore was quoted as saying that people often ask him who the best guy he ever faced was, and he often says Marciano just to make them happy and leave him alone, but he feels the two best guys he faced were Burley and Booker.

In regards to why Robinson priced himself out of Burley, he (or his team) must've felt it just wasn't worth the risk. Burley said he didn't blame Ray and would've done the same thing if he were in the position Ray was in.

If Burley were a big name or champ, and provided a better reward/risk ratio, then I think Ray would've fought him.

I rarely believe in the "he was scared to fight him by any means necessary" factor.

Jim Jeffries
05-11-2009, 03:16 PM
I think from '42 to '48, when Ray would've fought him, SRR was still a WW, while Burley was a MW. That and the high risk/low reward based on some questionable decision losses for Burley and others not letting him have a title shot.

AntonTheMeh
05-11-2009, 03:44 PM
I think Robinson would have fought Burley had the money been there, I think the main reason he didn't fight him was because Burley was because Burley was a high risk, low reward guy.

agree.that would have been a great fight.

AntonTheMeh
05-11-2009, 03:44 PM
I think from '42 to '48, when Ray would've fought him, SRR was still a WW, while Burley was a MW. That and the high risk/low reward based on some questionable decision losses for Burley and others not letting him have a title shot.

ray fought plenty of middles as a welter though.

Jim Jeffries
05-11-2009, 03:47 PM
ray fought plenty of middles as a welter though.

True, but he also lost to a lesser fighter in La Motto doing so.

Kid McCoy
05-11-2009, 04:30 PM
Ray Robinson fought gazillions of Hall of Famers, champions and the like, so it's unlikely he feared Burley.

Robinson may well have been the Greatest, but he was also a hard headed businessman, and by most accounts difficult to deal with in negotiations. Remember it was his purse demands which felled the proposed fight with Archie Moore.

Robinson not meeting Burley was probably a case of risk vs reward. Burley was not a big draw, and seems not to have been a crowd pleaser, whereas LaMotta was a popular fighter (at least in terms of fanbase) and widely seen as the uncrowned middleweight king, so fighting him brought Robinson a big payday and no damage to his career if he lost.

Had the money been right, I imagine Robinson would have fought him.

TheGreatA
05-11-2009, 04:37 PM
True, but he also lost to a lesser fighter in La Motto doing so.

I wouldn't call LaMotta a lesser fighter.

Burley gets all the credit in the world today, perhaps even more than he should, compared to Lloyd Marshall, Jimmy Bivins, Holman Williams, Bert Lytell etc. who all managed to beat him.

The fact is that at the time the two competed, it was LaMotta who was almost always rated above Burley in the middleweight rankings.

Jim Jeffries
05-11-2009, 04:48 PM
I wouldn't call LaMotta a lesser fighter.

Burley gets all the credit in the world today, perhaps even more than he should, compared to Lloyd Marshall, Jimmy Bivins, Holman Williams, Bert Lytell etc. who all managed to beat him.

The fact is that at the time the two competed, it was LaMotta who was almost always rated above Burley in the middleweight rankings.

What I meant was, LaMotta was a lesser fighter than SRR. Perhaps that loss influenced his future decisions on facing larger fighters.

TheGreatA
05-11-2009, 05:28 PM
What I meant was, LaMotta was a lesser fighter than SRR. Perhaps that loss influenced his future decisions on facing larger fighters.

Sorry I thought you meant LaMotta was a lesser fighter than Burley.

Robinson struggled against bigger men at first, he had not grown into a 160 lber as he did later on. He probably was more likely to handpick heavier opponents because at welterweight he fought pretty much everyone there was to fight. Top welterweights Kid Gavilan, Jackie Wilson, Tommy Bell, Bernard Docusen and George Costner were not exactly low risk, high reward opposition but Robinson fought them anyway.

Williams and Burley used to be welterweights but by the time Robinson had become a top contender in the division both of them ranked and fought almost exclusively at middleweight (and even up to light heavyweight).

Anyone who doubts Robinson's willingness to fight just about anybody as long as they money was right should know that he challenged heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson to a fight when Sugar Ray was nearly 40 years of age. It was D'Amato who turned the fight down, claiming he did not want his fighter to assist Ray Robinson in committing "suicide", which I can agree with...

Kid McCoy
05-11-2009, 06:03 PM
Sorry I thought you meant LaMotta was a lesser fighter than Burley.

Robinson struggled against bigger men at first, he had not grown into a 160 lber as he did later on. He probably was more likely to handpick heavier opponents because at welterweight he fought pretty much everyone there was to fight. Top welterweights Kid Gavilan, Jackie Wilson, Tommy Bell, Bernard Docusen and George Costner were not exactly low risk, high reward opposition but Robinson fought them anyway.

Williams and Burley used to be welterweights but by the time Robinson had become a top contender in the division both of them ranked and fought almost exclusively at middleweight (and even up to light heavyweight).

Anyone who doubts Robinson's willingness to fight just about anybody as long as they money was right should know that he challenged heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson to a fight when Sugar Ray was nearly 40 years of age. It was D'Amato who turned the fight down, claiming he did not want his fighter to assist Ray Robinson in committing "suicide", which I can agree with...

Did Robinson really challenge Patterson? The version I heard was Robinson's manager asked, "do you want to fight Floyd Patterson?" and the reply was, "you fight him."