View Full Version : POLL: Which HW boxer would be the most trouble regardless of era?


-Blackout-
05-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Which heavyweight boxer would be the most trouble and possible no 1 heavyweight regardless of era? Discuss

Poll to come.

Flicker Jab
05-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Foreman, imho.

Yaman
05-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Muhammad Ali comes to mind rather quickly. He fought everybody and every kind of fighter in his era. He was able to overcome even the biggest styles mismatches for him. For this question, he is the most proven to me imo.

black.ink
05-10-2009, 12:08 PM
It has to be Ali.

I would have said Foreman also, but todays Heavys although nowhere near big George's level, can match him for size and the likes of Lewis and the Klitschko's can be troubling for him prime for prime.

Lewis and Holmes would also have to be argued, as skillwise they could have troubled any era. The further you go back into history, the smaller the Heavyweights were, so the likes of Johnson and Dempsey, no matter how great they were, due to their size they could not cope with the likes of Ali, Foreman etc....

wmute
05-10-2009, 12:20 PM
Ali, because of his mind.

Unparalleled Ring Smarts.

A giant heart (don't think of his style, think of the amount of punishment he was willing to take).

A fighter with answers.

S.G.
05-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Ali has just about everything and he's too recent to fall under the category of boxers who may or may not be "inferior" to modern boxers

the style match-up in a few of the biggest fights is favourable to him also

GJC
05-10-2009, 01:10 PM
Ali has just about everything and he's too recent to fall under the category of boxers who may or may not be "inferior" to modern boxers

the style match-up in a few of the biggest fights is favourable to him also
Ditto.
Prime(ish) Ali always found a way to win.

kmcc505
05-10-2009, 02:15 PM
Holy could fight many styles and had lots of heart. He'd be good in any era.

portuge puncher
05-10-2009, 03:46 PM
just about every heavywieght in the poll would pose a tough test in any era.

them_apples
05-10-2009, 05:24 PM
IMO Holmes, good chin and a good jab.

Foreman being another because of his power and toughness.

RightCross94
05-10-2009, 05:41 PM
holyfield ali and holmes would be tough in any era

kmcc505
05-10-2009, 06:49 PM
Don't forget John Ruiz. Wait...

STILL_DETOX
05-10-2009, 06:51 PM
lennOXE lewis

THE REED™
05-10-2009, 06:51 PM
Muhammad Ali comes to mind rather quickly. He fought everybody and every kind of fighter in his era. He was able to overcome even the biggest styles mismatches for him. For this question, he is the most proven to me imo.

end of.............

Infern0
05-10-2009, 10:04 PM
Holyfield, Lewis, Ali, Klitschko would give anyone nightmares imo

Mir-44
05-11-2009, 12:59 AM
Voted George Foreman.. I think Muhammad Ali would be too small for todays HW's the man was a cruiserweight by todays standard after all..

Slimey Limey
05-11-2009, 05:20 AM
Voted George Foreman.. I think Muhammad Ali would be too small for todays HW's the man was a cruiserweight by todays standard after all..

215 to 220 is cruiserweight standard for today? Really, because I can think of a couple of Heavyweights today that are similar size and are at the top. Plus the man was over 6'3 and with a long reach. Plus he doesn't fight full body contact, he's a mover and mostly outside boxer. It's funny how the only argument that can be given against older fighters is size. I guess that's their only advantage. Hell the ROck would make short work out of every fat out of shape heavyweight today.

-Blackout-
05-12-2009, 05:40 AM
.................................

Toney Loc
05-13-2009, 07:55 PM
WTF? Where's Holmes?

Miburo
05-14-2009, 01:10 AM
A lot of people are saying Ali, but I'm leaning towards Foreman. Just a brutal physical freak.

Slimey Limey
05-14-2009, 04:56 AM
A lot of people are saying Ali, but I'm leaning towards Foreman. Just a brutal physical freak.

Boxers smart and brave enough could beat him. i.e. Ali and Young. Holmes would do the same, as would Lewis if he had had the guts and endurance he showed in his fight against Mercer.

Miburo
05-15-2009, 11:12 AM
Boxers smart and brave enough could beat him. i.e. Ali and Young. Holmes would do the same, as would Lewis if he had had the guts and endurance he showed in his fight against Mercer.

Foreman was no longer mentally the same by the Young fight, I wouldn't consider that "prime". Ali had many close calls and mediocre performances in the 60s, I don't think there is much reason for claiming he is clearly superior to Foreman in regard to this topic. Although just the young Foreman alone would be a powerhouse in any era, imagine if he had even a bit of the later abilities he was forced to develop. A young Foreman with the craftiness and stamina of the old Foreman is quite a scary prospect, he'd have a chance against anyone with that combination of chin and murderous power.

The_Visitation
05-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Jack Johnson should be on the list. I'd have him second behind Ali and ahead of Joe Louis.

D-MiZe
05-15-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm going with Tyson just because he is everything a heavyweight shouldn't be.

Flicker Jab
05-15-2009, 04:10 PM
the fact that tyson has seven votes and foreman has five lets me know that a bunch of know-nothings are in the history part of this forum

kmcc505
05-15-2009, 07:35 PM
I voted for Holy, but IMO Joe Louis whoops anyone on this list and is the greatest heavyweight champion ever. I also have him at number 2 P4P.

Infern0
05-15-2009, 07:39 PM
Lol at more votes for Tyson than Lewis, Louis, Vitali, foreman and Holyfield.

Prettyboy Adam
05-15-2009, 09:21 PM
Iron Mike Tyson for me.

Infern0
05-16-2009, 01:47 AM
Lol, here is what you need to beat Tyson, pretty good skills and chin, not to be scared of him.

Slimey Limey
05-16-2009, 11:43 AM
Foreman was no longer mentally the same by the Young fight, I wouldn't consider that "prime". Ali had many close calls and mediocre performances in the 60s, I don't think there is much reason for claiming he is clearly superior to Foreman in regard to this topic. Although just the young Foreman alone would be a powerhouse in any era, imagine if he had even a bit of the later abilities he was forced to develop. A young Foreman with the craftiness and stamina of the old Foreman is quite a scary prospect, he'd have a chance against anyone with that combination of chin and murderous power.

Carbon copy excuse as Tyson's "prime". With Tyson, it is a pathetic laughable excuse. With Foreman, it is an undisputable fact.
Bias.

And I don't think Foreman was much more skilled when he was old. In his younger days I see the same Jabs and combinations. All he did was he was more reserved and could pace himself better, and wasn't fighting like a drunk lunatic like in his prime.

Ali
Young
Liston
Holmes
Lewis

These great boxers would beat any version of big George. Size, reach, countering ability, great all around skills and the mental ability and courage.

Slimey Limey
05-16-2009, 11:45 AM
By the way, I voted for Marciano. Him, Ali and Lennox, if they fought every boxer in history 3 times they would win atleast 1, and 99% of the trilogies.

AKATheMack
05-16-2009, 12:28 PM
I went with Foreman, but a good argument can be made for Ali. I just dont think an argument can be made against Foreman seeing as he proved it. Foreman is a beast

The Iron Man
05-16-2009, 02:38 PM
By the way, I voted for Marciano. Him, Ali and Lennox, if they fought every boxer in history 3 times they would win atleast 1, and 99% of the trilogies.

I struggle to see how marciano would be more effective than the other heavies on that list, in fact i every heavyweight on that list would be a tough fight for Rocky. In his time he was great, but i dont think he would travel eras aswell as the others.

Btw i voted for Ali. But i think Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Louis and Frazier would be succesfull in every era.

Slimey Limey
05-16-2009, 04:52 PM
I went with Foreman, but a good argument can be made for Ali. I just dont think an argument can be made against Foreman seeing as he proved it. Foreman is a beast

Prove he can destroy legs frozen terrified Norton, and a smaller, shorter and less powerfull swarmer in Frazier, but go life and death against someone his own size/style like Lyle? What was also proven was that he was boxed silly and made to look like a drunk fool against Ali and Young, then Morrison, Stewart and Holyfield.

Foreman looked great against STYLES MISMATCHES. But he FAILED miserably many times.

Ali? He fought everybody and beat them all, even against HUGE style mismatches such as against Norton and Frazier. Those were his only real losses, and he avenged those defeats. Showed he was the best.

Foreman didn't, but he can say he was very depressed and it's all good.

I struggle to see how marciano would be more effective than the other heavies on that list, in fact i every heavyweight on that list would be a tough fight for Rocky. In his time he was great, but i dont think he would travel eras aswell as the others.

Btw i voted for Ali. But i think Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Louis and Frazier would be succesfull in every era.

Let me guess. Size right? Of cource, boxing has nothing to do with boxing skills, it's all about how much you weigh etc.

Chex31
05-16-2009, 08:16 PM
Let me guess. Size right? Of cource, boxing has nothing to do with boxing skills, it's all about how much you weigh etc.

And what skills do you speak of?


And also I see Ali, Holmes, and Tyson doing well in any era of HW boxing

F l i c k e r
05-16-2009, 08:26 PM
I went with Foreman, but a good argument can be made for Ali. I just dont think an argument can be made against Foreman seeing as he proved it. Foreman is a beast

May I co-sign? Foreman definately.

Let me guess. Size right? Of cource, boxing has nothing to do with boxing skills, it's all about how much you weigh etc.

I love Rocky Marciano. I think with his power he could be but he wouldn't be undefeated in eras after his own. Because as time went on, HWs learned how to run away.... I mean "manuever" around alot more.

Slimey Limey
05-16-2009, 08:34 PM
May I co-sign? Foreman definately.



I love Rocky Marciano. I think with his power he could be but he wouldn't be undefeated in eras after his own. Because as time went on, HWs learned how to run away.... I mean "manuever" around alot more.

No no you're doing it wrong mate. See, boxing is all about size. Just look at their respective weights and compare the numbers. That's how you can see who would beat who. Weight is the only factor.

The Iron Man
05-17-2009, 09:20 AM
Let me guess. Size right? Of cource, boxing has nothing to do with boxing skills, it's all about how much you weigh etc.

Not solely, i think size would be a factor against people who know how to use it. But out of all those fighters i think he was the least skilled. I cant see him being effective in the 60s, 70s, 80s or even 90s. People like foreman, ali, Holmes, Frazier, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield and probably Bowe would be too much for him, Tua would also have given Marciano a tough tough fight. In his time and against those opponents Marciano was brilliant, but he doesn't travel eras as well as other heavies.

Slimey Limey
05-17-2009, 10:43 AM
Not solely, i think size would be a factor against people who know how to use it. But out of all those fighters i think he was the least skilled. I cant see him being effective in the 60s, 70s, 80s or even 90s. People like foreman, ali, Holmes, Frazier, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield and probably Bowe would be too much for him, Tua would also have given Marciano a tough tough fight. In his time and against those opponents Marciano was brilliant, but he doesn't travel eras as well as other heavies.

Because of size right? If you look at the numbers, and compare their weights, it's obvious the bigger number wins. Boxing is all about weights.

You're still not being clear at all mate. Just saying "they would be too much for him" isn't gonna convince me. That's too easy.

Grapes
05-17-2009, 10:55 AM
pissed off prime tyson > the rest of the list

The Iron Man
05-17-2009, 10:59 AM
For me Marcianos greatest attribute and something he done so well in his time was come forward and push people back. With people like Ali, Holmes or Liston smacking their powerfull jab he wouldnt be able to do this, he wouldnt get into any sort of rythm. As for Holmes and Ali i dnt think he would ever be able to catch them cleanley, and if he did these guys could take his punches. Liston, Foreman and Lewis would be to strong for him, and all wrong for his style anyway i know its a bit Cliché but i see Foreman/Fraizer all over again. Tyson and Frazier are similar to Marciano, but i think they are both faster, hit harder and better at combination punching. After all Marciano was not the most ellusive fighter (more ellusive than some give him credit for) and he cant keep gettinng hit buy these guys.

Dont get me wrong if Marciano was around today he would beat the big 7ft lumps all day every day. I have the upmost respect for Marciano, just imo he doesnt match up well with the other ATG heavies.

ji23
05-17-2009, 02:20 PM
i vote Frazier

Heru
05-19-2009, 06:27 PM
Ali - Styles make fights so anyone is bound to be able to beat him, but prime Ali in a trilogy finds a way to come out the winner against everyone. Remember that prime Ali was forced to retire and and he came back and did what he did past it.

glidesmack
05-19-2009, 07:22 PM
I always thought the historic comparisons and pound for pound arguments would make for a decent field of dreams style movie. Where guys from the past and present somehow end up in the same place. Could make for some fun surprises and good drama. Guys like robinson, dempsey, greb and louis would all wreak some havoc but they'd sure as hell be scared of some guys from the present.

Obama
05-19-2009, 07:30 PM
For me Marcianos greatest attribute and something he done so well in his time was come forward and push people back. With people like Ali, Holmes or Liston smacking their powerfull jab he wouldnt be able to do this, he wouldnt get into any sort of rythm. As for Holmes and Ali i dnt think he would ever be able to catch them cleanley, and if he did these guys could take his punches. Liston, Foreman and Lewis would be to strong for him, and all wrong for his style anyway i know its a bit Cliché but i see Foreman/Fraizer all over again. Tyson and Frazier are similar to Marciano, but i think they are both faster, hit harder and better at combination punching. After all Marciano was not the most ellusive fighter (more ellusive than some give him credit for) and he cant keep gettinng hit buy these guys.

Dont get me wrong if Marciano was around today he would beat the big 7ft lumps all day every day. I have the upmost respect for Marciano, just imo he doesnt match up well with the other ATG heavies.

I agree with most of this but I believe Marciano was better than Frazier. Not more skilled, but his X factor in toughness pulls it out for me. If they went head to head I believe Frazier would dominate early, but eventually get knocked out. He very well may floor Marciano several times in the early rounds.

TheMelvern
05-19-2009, 07:46 PM
You know something? I think Mike Tyson, and I mean a prime, focused Mike Tyson, rules them all. Mike Tysons career did not reach its full potential because of so many reasons. A prime Mike was nothing to mess with.

Obama
05-19-2009, 07:59 PM
You know something? I think Mike Tyson, and I mean a prime, focused Mike Tyson, rules them all. Mike Tysons career did not reach its full potential because of so many reasons. A prime Mike was nothing to mess with.

I can buy this. But I do believe Tyson would struggle against the most clever heavyweights. Them, and George Foreman. :rofl:

glidesmack
05-20-2009, 12:01 AM
Dumb question. Whoever the best heavyweight is would cause the most problems ignoring era.

If you asked who the best old time heavyweight is who would cause big problems in later decades, I'd say jack dempsey.

he was too fast for a lot of the great heavyweights, and I think he had more power than people think, and not just pound for pound. At 190, or even 180, throwing punches the way he did... I mean the guy had 60 first round knockouts including exhibitions. 60.

j
05-20-2009, 12:12 AM
i had to go with my guy vitali. he is as big as lewis, but has a more adaptable fighting style. not to mention tough as hell and has as much speed needed to deal with whatever is thrown at him.

i'd give lewis a nod as well. maybe, maybe a foreman.

ali i dont see able to deal with guys who are not only big and hit hard, but can move a bit and are smart.

wmute
05-20-2009, 02:34 AM
I can buy this. But I do believe Tyson would struggle against the most clever heavyweights. Them, and George Foreman. :rofl:

Throw in Liston

Mugwump
05-20-2009, 02:51 AM
With his size, speed and power prime and focussed Lewis would give any heavyweight fits. The problem with Lewis is getting him focussed, as Steward always said. I mean, look what happened when he faced guys who beat him. He was a completely different fighter (with that weird zen-like concentration). He gave McCall a nervous breakdown and he knocked Rahman into a different time zone.

Leakbeak
05-20-2009, 05:57 AM
Rocky Marciano
DempseyMarciano, Knighte, PLATE, Slimey LimeyYou 4 should kill yourselves NOW