And anyone that supports this war needs to see this film. Its more important that people that support Bush see this movie than people that don't.

Purty, Chris, Mad Crew Mom, watch this movie. Then tell me what you think of George W Bush. Espically you Chris. You are all gun ho about the war, but you can't even serve. YOU need to watch this movie. Then tell me if you still support sending young men and women to iraq to die.

I haven’t seen it yet but everyone I talk to about it says that it’s a real “eye opener.” But then again I hear that he’s altered his truth by importing his propaganda and misleading ideology into it; meaning that he doesn’t portray the war effort equally and in a full-context documentary, rather focusing on a biased approach. Nevertheless I want to see it so I can see what all this damn controversy is about before I form my own opinion about it.

I haven’t seen it yet but everyone I talk to about it says that it’s a real “eye opener.” But then again I hear that he’s altered his truth by importing his propaganda and misleading ideology into it; meaning that he doesn’t portray the war effort equally and in a full-context documentary, rather focusing on a biased approach. Nevertheless I want to see it so I can see what all this damn controversy is about before I form my own opinion about it.


Actually, a lot of what is in there are things that are 100% well documented facts. The only thing thats "biased" is the emotional parts of the film that show the effects of the war in iraq in america. The woman that goes to the whitehouse after losing her son in iraq, crying on the walk way screaming "I need my son".

A lot of the connectons Micheal Moore points out are of the "friend of a friend" varitiey, but the fact there are so MANY of them is what should wake people up. You might be able to ignore one or two of the points Moore makes, but all of them? Come on, people are smarter than that. At least the people on this forum are.

Also, the most damning statements in the whole movie don't come from Moore himself. They come from Bush and the members of his goverment. In interviews given before and after September 11th. From people like Richard Clarke who is the former chief anti-terrorism adviser to Bush. Moore interviews him during the film and Clarke (who worked for Bush mind you) says the president made it clear to him that he wanted a link between September 11th and iraq found, even after being told there doesn't look like there is one. A few other things Clarke say said about Bush (some of which are in the film, and some of which aren't) are.....


""Frankly," he said, "I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months, when maybe we could have done something to stop 9/11. Maybe. We'll never know."

"I think he's done a terrible job on the war against terrorism."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minutes/main607356.shtml

"Your government failed you … and I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter because we failed. And for that failure, I would ask … for your understanding and for your forgiveness."

http://www.grassrootsusa.com/

Here is also a rough transcript of Richard Clarkes testimony before the 9/11 commisson

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/24/bn.00.html


This is a man that has servered under several presidents, republican and democract and ws held in very high regard by everyone that knew him. He said Bush didn't pay enough attention to terrorism, including ignoring a report a few months before 9/11 called "Bin Ladin determed to attack in America" which out lined Bi Ladins plans to attack american cities by hi-jacking planes. Hmmmmm.....that sounds important.

I hear arguments that Moore wasn't objective and didn't show the whole story. Well, I have looked, and I can't find any evidence to support Bush's side of things. All we have is there word. "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction", well lets see the reports and the evidence out lined in the reports. Oh wait, we haven't, and the ones we have seen were censored and very hard to gain access too. Oh yeah, Colin Powell went before the United Nations and out-lined the evidence of WMDs in Iraq. Oh but wait, the nations of the world already knew about this and had established for themselves that it was unreliable or untrue.

I am not someone that mindlessly following Micheal Moore and everything he says. I know he political beliefs affect his films, but I don't have a major problem with that. Mainly because I already knew most of the things he ways talking about. The sad thing is, most people don't.

I know I am going to get several people on this forum calling me an idiot for this post, but I don't care. If it comes from the people I think it will, it will only be proving my points.


p.s Forgive any spelling or grammar errors. When I get angry I tend to screw up my typing.

I do plan on seeing it, but I am going skeptical. If it were a "true" documentary, then I wouldn't be as skeptical. I am a true supporter of Bush, even if he's made mistakes, just like those Democrats who supported Clinton thru his mistakes while in the White House. I'll see the movie, but don't plan on it changing my mind.

I support the war and our men and women that are over there. We don't send them to die over there, we send them to fight. Some will die, that's a sad fact of war and they know that as well. But we have lost a lot less in this war than we did in Vietnam in the same time span. If you think we can get thru this life without conflict, you are sadly mistaken. No, I am not a supporter of war in itself, but I am a supporter of those who fight for us. We are there, we will finish the job before we leave. Get over it already. Nothing anyone does or says is going to change the fact that we are there until the job is done. Remember, I live in a military town and I hear nothing about how "we shouldn't be there" from the boys in the marine corp. Keep in mind that they live in my neighborhood, they've come to my house, we've gone to the movies with them, we've bbq'd with them. One of my daughter's best friends dates one and we've welcomed him into our home. We support our military and that's how it should be.

Actually, a lot of what is in there are things that are 100% well documented facts. The only thing thats "biased" is the emotional parts of the film that show the effects of the war in iraq in america. The woman that goes to the whitehouse after losing her son in iraq, crying on the walk way screaming "I need my son".

A lot of the connectons Micheal Moore points out are of the "friend of a friend" varitiey, but the fact there are so MANY of them is what should wake people up. You might be able to ignore one or two of the points Moore makes, but all of them? Come on, people are smarter than that. At least the people on this forum are.

Also, the most damning statements in the whole movie don't come from Moore himself. They come from Bush and the members of his goverment. In interviews given before and after September 11th. From people like Richard Clarke who is the former chief anti-terrorism adviser to Bush. Moore interviews him during the film and Clarke (who worked for Bush mind you) says the president made it clear to him that he wanted a link between September 11th and iraq found, even after being told there doesn't look like there is one. A few other things Clarke say said about Bush (some of which are in the film, and some of which aren't) are.....


""Frankly," he said, "I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months, when maybe we could have done something to stop 9/11. Maybe. We'll never know."

"I think he's done a terrible job on the war against terrorism."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minutes/main607356.shtml

"Your government failed you … and I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter because we failed. And for that failure, I would ask … for your understanding and for your forgiveness."

http://www.grassrootsusa.com/

Here is also a rough transcript of Richard Clarkes testimony before the 9/11 commisson

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/24/bn.00.html


This is a man that has servered under several presidents, republican and democract and ws held in very high regard by everyone that knew him. He said Bush didn't pay enough attention to terrorism, including ignoring a report a few months before 9/11 called "Bin Ladin determed to attack in America" which out lined Bi Ladins plans to attack american cities by hi-jacking planes. Hmmmmm.....that sounds important.

I hear arguments that Moore wasn't objective and didn't show the whole story. Well, I have looked, and I can't find any evidence to support Bush's side of things. All we have is there word. "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction", well lets see the reports and the evidence out lined in the reports. Oh wait, we haven't, and the ones we have seen were censored and very hard to gain access too. Oh yeah, Colin Powell went before the United Nations and out-lined the evidence of WMDs in Iraq. Oh but wait, the nations of the world already knew about this and had established for themselves that it was unreliable or untrue.

I am not someone that mindlessly following Micheal Moore and everything he says. I know he political beliefs affect his films, but I don't have a major problem with that. Mainly because I already knew most of the things he ways talking about. The sad thing is, most people don't.

I know I am going to get several people on this forum calling me an idiot for this post, but I don't care. If it comes from the people I think it will, it will only be proving my points.


p.s Forgive any spelling or grammar errors. When I get angry I tend to screw up my typing.

Everything you just said could be said of the "other side". You are saying that these people "said" this about what Bush said etc. That's hearsay. Plain and simple hearsay. Courts don't allow it as evidence. Everything you 'hear' that someone else 'said' should be taken with a grain of salt.

And why are you getting angry, it all boils down to a matter of opinion, which I have always tried to give everyone here respect for, even if I don't agree with them. Those that stoop to the name calling are the ones with no respect for another's opinion. You can't have a decent debate if you get emotional on the subject.

i really wanna see this movie but i'm so ****in busy lately!

i don't really support the war 100% and neither do i support bush all the way. i just argue with people who think that they could do better if they were in office yet have not presented anything realistic as to HOW they would do better.......but just do what everyone else does and point out the flaws of the ones in charge.

Mainly because I already knew most of the things he ways talking about. The sad thing is, most people don't.


funny, because i've never seen you point out ANY of the things you just talked about before. what a coincidence that you feel free to shed the light the moment after you see the movie.

care to link me to a thread where you've pointed out things that michael moore and you knew all along and that "most people don't"?

Everything you just said could be said of the "other side". You are saying that these people "said" this about what Bush said etc. That's hearsay. Plain and simple hearsay. Courts don't allow it as evidence. Everything you 'hear' that someone else 'said' should be taken with a grain of salt.

And why are you getting angry, it all boils down to a matter of opinion, which I have always tried to give everyone here respect for, even if I don't agree with them. Those that stoop to the name calling are the ones with no respect for another's opinion. You can't have a decent debate if you get emotional on the subject.

No offense meant, but thats bull. Bush said these things. There in memos, in interviews, in his business records. Hearsay is also when person A says he heard person B say person C told him this. I have seen Bush and what he has said and done.

Oh, and the passion side of the argument? In a situation where young men and women are sent to die for a cause I belive to be nothing more than rich people trying to get richer, for give me if I get a little upset.

In a situation where young men and women are sent to die for a cause I belive to be nothing more than rich people trying to get richer, for give me if I get a little upset.

that's been happening since day 1. i think native indians and tibetan monks are the only cultures that don't see that everyday. just because you have access to the internet and 24 hour cnn coverage doesn't mean you're uncovering anything magical.

funny, because i've never seen you point out ANY of the things you just talked about before. what a coincidence that you feel free to shed the light the moment after you see the movie.

care to link me to a thread where you've pointed out things that michael moore and you knew all along and that "most people don't"?

Oh, you mean me saying that I think Bush is a criminal and that the war in iraq is all about moeny and oil? The first post.

http://www.globalmma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19279&highlight=iraq

Or how about me talking about what a good job Richard Clarke did that and I was impressed by what he had to say?

http://www.globalmma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18489&highlight=Dick+Clarke

Also, check out the news archives of places like CNN or the CBC (Canadian version of the BBC) to see where I get my info. You see Tony, I watch the news on a Daily basies. Not american news, but internaitonal news. Thats why I know these things. Its all out there for people to find.

I could provide you with more links, but I discussed them on another forum, and I would most likely be lynched if I linked there because some people have a problem with this forum.

Also, why would I be so dead set against Bush if I didn't know all of these things?

that's been happening since day 1. i think native indians and tibetan monks are the only cultures that don't see that everyday. just because you have access to the internet and 24 hour cnn coverage doesn't mean you're uncovering anything magical.

No, it doesn't. Because its all out there for people to see, and to read about, if they choose too. The sad thing is, people DON'T. Hell, some people have told me that everyone should support and trust the president no matter what. He is the leader, so they trust him.

Thats a very very dangerous thing to do.

i stand corrected

No, it doesn't. Because its all out there for people to see, and to read about, if they choose too. The sad thing is, people DON'T. Hell, some people have told me that everyone should support and trust the president no matter what. He is the leader, so they trust him.

Thats a very very dangerous thing to do.

i understand that it's out there for people to read. and i know that some don't get involved. that still doesn't change the fact that the poor (or young) have been dying for the rich to get richer ever since the start.

No offense meant, but thats bull. Bush said these things. There in memos, in interviews, in his business records. Hearsay is also when person A says he heard person B say person C told him this. I have seen Bush and what he has said and done.

Oh, and the passion side of the argument? In a situation where young men and women are sent to die for a cause I belive to be nothing more than rich people trying to get richer, for give me if I get a little upset.


You didn't say anything about memos, business records or in interviews...you said in your post about what so and so 'said'.....that's what I'm going on. I haven't seen the movie yet and that was made clear.

Have any of you spoken to soldiers that were in Iraq?
Because I have and he said that he watched the news and it was like he was watching another war. What the news reports and what actually is going on are two different things. The news will not report all the good things. He said that most Iraquis are very happy the US is in Iraq and they constantly thank the soldiers. I believe a real soldier who knows the real story more than any stupid fat piece of **** nobody.

So you need to stop believing every stupid thing you hear, especially if its coming from a piece of **** like Michael Moore. Anyone can distort things and make them llok the way they want its a stupid ****ing movie and I refuse to see it and put money into that *******s pocket

Have any of you spoken to soldiers that were in Iraq?
Because I have and he said that he watched the news and it was like he was watching another war. What the news reports and what actually is going on are two different things. The news will not report all the good things. He said that most Iraquis are very happy the US is in Iraq and they constantly thank the soldiers. I believe a real soldier who knows the real story more than any stupid fat piece of **** nobody.

So you need to stop believing every stupid thing you hear, especially if its coming from a piece of **** like Michael Moore. Anyone can distort things and make them llok the way they want its a stupid ****ing movie and I refuse to see it and put money into that *******s pocket

Then watch the film and see the interviews with the soldiers that give interviews to Michael Moore. OH, and if your not willing to pay for it, I'll send you a copy. I downloaded it and watch it and I am going to go see it in theaters this tuesday. So Chris, if you don't want to pay for it, thats no problem. I'll send you a copy.

Moore himself said he doesn't even mind file sharing that much. He is doing well, and he cares more about people seeing his films than making money. So, log onto AIM, my name is CreedMMA, and I'll send you a copy. As long as you promise to watch it.

Bush scare me because of the simple fact that he has said "I think god wants me to run for the white house."

Bush scare me because of the simple fact that he has said "I think god wants me to run for the white house."


No he was refering to his pet I guess: I think a dog wants me to run for the white house.

Read this.... http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000590756

It is also seeking compensatory damages of exactly one dollar?

And the are suing for that dollar on the basis that Moore blew up the print, that he changed the date on the newspaper even though the date would of made no difference?

Early in the movie, according to the paper, a large headline appears in the film, purporting to be from a Dec. 19, 2001 edition of the paper, and reading "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election." The paper contends that the headline actually appeared on Dec. 5, 2001, in much smaller type, and above a letter to the editor, hardly a factual news story or editorial.

I call bull****. Thats an awful lot of work for a man to do for something that really didn't have any effect on the movie what so ever. I know Moore tends to focus on things that reflect his side of the argument (like everyone else in the world), but this makes no sense. I mean, come on.

Read this.... http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000590756


Btw, did you ever watch the movie?

Btw, did you ever watch the movie?


Not yet, waiting for it to come out on DVD and I'll rent it.

The newspaper would have the evidence in their archives. It's the fact that he altered the paper that bothers most people. Dishonesty earns no respect from me.

www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

Yeah, I am waiting for that movie to come out. I am very interested in it actually. From what I have seen of Michael Moore, he loves America. He just hates the people running it right now.

i saw bowling for columbine and that it was awesome. can't wait to see 911 and mmha either

9/11 was pretty damn cool. Saw it tonight. Some pretty graphic stuff in there as well.

Saw it yesterday...

Most people would wander about the relevance of this movie to Australians (outside of Australia that is.) but we have the good fortune to be lead at present by Bush puppet who is determined not to upset his string puller by bowing to every request , regardless of public opinion here and common sense...hopefully that will all change.

I don't follow American politics enough to make a truly educated opinion and give thought out solutions, but some of the coincidences described in the movie made a lot of sense.

Do I think Saddam Hussein is an innocent victim in all this?? Not particularly..having met Iraqi refugees over the last few years, the guy was a pretty horrible dictator...do I think the Iraqi people are innocent victims in all this?? Yes...a large majority of them are pretty much innocent and are merely victims of Government policy.

I don't follow American politics enough to make a truly educated opinion and give thought out solutions,


don't worry seldom. there's plenty of people on here that do follow the politics like hawks and still can't give an educated opinion......let alone thought out solutions.