There have substantial changes in my top 10 HW rating. What about yours?

My current rating is:

1. Vitali
2-3. Byrd/Golota
4. Wlad
5. McCline
6. Jirov
7. Williamson (TOS)
8. Rahman
9. Larry Donald
10. James Toney
11. Monte Barrett
12. Williams
13. John Hugger (nickname Ruiz)

....

55. Meahan
56. Brewster

There have substantial changes in my top 10 HW rating. What about yours?

My current rating is:

1. Vitali
2-3. Byrd/Golota
4. Wlad
5. McCline
6. Jirov
7. Williamson (TOS)
8. Rahman
9. Larry Donald
10. James Toney
11. Williams
12. John Hugger (nickname Ruiz)

....

55. Meahan
56. Brewster
I dont think you should have TOS, Jirov or Donald iin there. other than that, looks about right

I dont think you should have TOS, Jirov or Donald iin there. other than that, looks about right


Jirov should definitely be there.

1. Vitali Klitschko
2. Byrd
3. Rahman
4. Toney
5. Wladimir Klitschko
6. Jirov
7. McCline
8. Williamson
9. Brewster
10. Ruiz

I would put toney at least 2 or 3

I would put toney at least 2 or 3

I thought Donald looked as good as Toney did against Holyfield.

This is actually a lot harder to do after the PPV this weekend. So hard, that I am only going to do a top 8 list. 9 and 10 are wide open IMO. No one that really matters impressed me besides Rahman and he did it by beating a guy who doesn't belong in the top 100. Toney was hurt by what Donald did to Holyfield. Ruiz was hurt by his gift decision. Golota was hurt by not looking that great IMO against Ruiz. He did not jab anywhere near enough. Wladimir was helped by TOS's showing against McCall. Brewster was hurt by Meehan's showing against Rahman.

Before:
1) Vitali Klitschko: who else is it going to be?
2) Chris Byrd: great defense, limited offense, quickness is fading.
3) John Ruiz: manages to fight one shot fighter after another.
4) Andrew Golota: may or may not be shot.
5) James Toney: old, injury prone, and running out of time.
6) Jameel McCline: needs to fight like he is 6'6" and 260 lbs.
7) Monte Barrett: is doing great with new trainer.
8) Kirk Johnson: getting blown out by VK doesn't mean he should be off the list.
9) Lemon Brewster: hopefully his showing against Meehan was because it was a fixed fight.
10) Wladimir Klitschko: maybe Manny can turn it all around.

After:

1) Vitali Klitschko
2) Chris Byrd
3) Hasim Rahman
4) Corrie Sanders
5) Wladimir Klitschko
6) James Toney
7) Monte Barrett
8) Kirk Johnson

I thought Donald looked as good as Toney did against Holyfield.

I thought so too. Toney does not deserve 2 or 3 after how well Donald did against Toney.

Golota was hurt by not looking that great IMO against Ruiz.


It is hard to box well against a skilled wrestler.

Only a runner (Jones) could do it with a help of a good ref.

It is hard to box well against a skilled wrestler.

Only a runner (Jones) could do it with a help of a good ref.

He didn't throw anywhere near enough jabs though.

1. vitali..... champ till someone beats him
2. rahman.....looked great and in-shape.
3. byrd......has heart, got off the canvas and beat his mandatory
4. ruiz...... cancer of the division but finds a way to win
5. toney.... who else is there that deserves this spot? i cant give it to golota because he lost two consecutive albeit in some people eyes he was robbed.If kirk johnson could ge into shape i would give it to him because he has size,speed,and talent but he is throwing it away when he comes in fat.

He didn't throw anywhere near enough jabs though.


I doubt that would have helped. I think he needed to take all risks and go for a knockout in the last few rounds. He was too cautious, perhaps thinking that he was winning the fight. If only he knew what referees had for him, he would just go for a straight shoot-out with Hugger.

I doubt that would have helped. I think he needed to take all risks and go for a knockout in the last few rounds. He was too cautious, perhaps thinking that he was winning the fight. If only he knew what referees had for him, he would just go for a straight shoot-out with Hugger.

Exactly he was too cautious, and you see where it got him. Never trust the judges. They can come up with anything especially when Don King is involved.

Jirov should definitely be there.

I don't think Jirov should be ranked until he beats a heavyweight.

I don't think Jirov should be ranked until he beats a heavyweight.

Well, if he had a chance to go for the 11th round with Mesi, he would have him out. If not for the injury, Mesi would be in top 3 right now, so it makes Jirov a top 10 figther, IMO.

Well, if he had a chance to for 11th round with Mesi, he would have him out. If not for the injury, Mesi would be in top 3 right now, so it makes Jirov a top 10 figther, IMO.

Mesi has a horrible stamina problem like Corrie Sanders even though Mesi looks like he is shape, and Mesi still managed to outland Jirov in the 9th round. And Moorer is a horrible fight for him at this point in time too. Moorer is beyond finished just like Holyfield.

Mesi has a horrible stamina problem like Corrie Sanders even though Mesi looks like he is shape, and Mesi still managed to outland Jirov in the 9th round. And Moorer is a horrible fight for him at this point in time too. Moorer is beyond finished just like Holyfield.


Jirov has a light frame, which will always be an advantage in later rounds against heavy-framed fighters. His only chance of winning against good heavy-framed boxers (Mesi is both a very good boxer and puncher) is to take it to the later rounds where he will have stamina advantage and go for a KO.

I think Moorer is a horrible fight to take now, but I doubt that the other top 10-15 rated guys rush to pick a fight with Jirov. Jirov is a an extremely tough fight. Moorer is a former undisputed champ, so winning over an in-shape Moorer will be good for ratings. The only problem is that an in-shape Moorer could be as dangerous as anyone.

1. Vitali- currently unbeatable.
2. Hassim Rahman- Only man with a chance at beating Vitali.
3. Up for grabs Wlad dominated McCline and Byrd but lost to Brewster. How do you rate this? Toney beat Booker and an ancient Holyfield that means **** any top 50 heavyweight can do that. This is really starting to look pathetic, its all about waiting to see who can do what in their next fights last night proved nada, except Rahman is back.

1)Byrd/Vitali
2)John Ruiz
3)Hasim Rahman
4)James Toney
5)Andrew Golota
6)Danny Williams
7)Jameel McCline
8)Monte Barret
9)Vassily Jirov
10)Lamon Brewster

1. Vitaly
2. Byrd
3. Ruiz
4. Golota
5. Rahman
6. Toney
7. Danny Williams
8. Jameel Mcline
9. Monte Barret
10. Jirov

Jirov should definitely be there.
Jirov's never won a heavyweight fight! Why not put Tarver or Braithwaite there just in case? (sarcasm)

Well, not much changed:

My list of omissions has bigger names and potentially better champions, but this is how I feel I must rank the current "Top 10" heavyweights.

1. John Ruiz - through process of elimination. I put the three champs against each other, and Ruiz is the guy I think might survive a tournament. His recent opponents and "performances" though boring as hell are the most impressive of the three and I see him frustrating the other two like crazy. Plus, he seems to have a decent chin since his 1996 disaster. The guy dominated Rahman, TKO'd Oquendo; after Golota, he needs to try to schedule an opponent that will be more fan-friendly.

2. Chris Byrd - These rankings are based on results on paper; I think Chris lost his last 2 decisions prior to the McCline fight, but if he won them, as he officially did, he deserves this spot. He's fought good competition, he owns a "win" over Vitali, he hasn't lost in ages. He will make McCline look stupid and that'll make some critics forget about Oquendo dominating him.

3. Vitali Klitschko - The recognized champ by Ring magazine, he has a weak resume. His most 2 impressive fights were technically losses. If Byrd benefits from "official wins", Vitali suffers from them. His post-fight Lewis opponents were a fat, out of shape Johnson and a fat, out of shape Sanders. A win over Danny Williams doesn't prove much more - Vitali needs to fight one of the other champs or someone else ranked in my Top 6 or so to gain some credibilility.

4. Joe Mesi - It's funny how I'm listing the top heavyweights, and what I'm doing is listing excuses for how I feel I have to rank guys. I'm not sold on Mesi, either, and his medical condition is scary, his stamina's in question - but the guy's undefeated - he destroyed Williamson and beat Barrett and Jirov. And that's enough to have enough momentum to be in this situation. Is lightyears ahead of fellow unbeatens Sam Peter and Gerald Nobles.

5. Hasim Rahman - Suffered a string of bad recent luck. Should have got a decision vs. Tua, but then lost to Ruiz and fought some bums to pad his record and get his confidence back. After he beats Meehan, he'll get another shot at Ruiz or maybe fights Byrd.

6. Dominick Guinn - The heavyweights aren't so blessed with talent that a bad loss ruins one's career right now. The top 2 guys have them and many others on the list, too. Guinn has maybe the greatest upside of all these guys because of his skills and talent and age. He's got a shot at being a longer champion than Vitali. He needs another big fight but ought to be a champion by 2006.

7. Monte Barrett - Benefitting from momentum right now. May get a shot at Vitali after Rahman.

8. Andrew Golota - Back from the dead, he probably beat Byrd and had a shot at beating Ruiz. Still has been destroyed by Tyson and Lewis and self-destructed against Bowe. Needs to put together a string of impressive heavyweight wins to change how history will view him.

9. James Toney - yeah, he's a heavyweight now. He knocked out a shot legend and beat an undefeated kid on TV, officially. 2 fights into his heavyweight career, we're not sure when he fights again or in what condition. But these heavyweights all come with baggage.

10. Reserved for Harrison, Valuev, Peter, Nobles, or some other heavyweight who finishes the year 2005 with their undefeated record still in tact.

Omissions: Jameel McCline still lacks that big win. They've all got big enough punching power to potentially be exciting champs, but big big question marks about inactivity, heart, diminishing skills and conditioning all keep David Tua, Mike Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko off the list. I know too little of Owen Beck, Luan Krasniqi or Oleg Maskaev. Lamon Brewster has done too little to warrant a Top 10; he just happened to not be KO'd on the night Wlad self-destructed, then lost 7 or 8 rounds to sparring partner Kali Meehan. Even with the official "win", his lack of quality wins keeps him off the list. Meehan made him look a lot worse on Saturday. Evander Holyfieldis done. Larry Donald is another win away from the Top 10, assuming his opponent is decent. Lance Whitaker shouldn't still be hanging around, but hey, it's a depleted division. That's why would-be prospects Sinan Samil Sam and DaVarryl Williamson haven't been completely written off. Bruce Seldon, Oliver McCall, Michael Moorer and Riddick Bowe are just old names still in the division. Vassily Jirov still doesn't have a heavyweight win, does he? Roy Jones Jr ought not to fight at this weight (or probably any weight) again.

Jirov should definitely be there.

And if Moorer KO's Jirov where do you rank Moorer?

This is actually a lot harder to do after the PPV this weekend. So hard, that I am only going to do a top 8 list. 9 and 10 are wide open IMO. No one that really matters impressed me besides Rahman and he did it by beating a guy who doesn't belong in the top 100. Toney was hurt by what Donald did to Holyfield. Ruiz was hurt by his gift decision. Golota was hurt by not looking that great IMO against Ruiz. He did not jab anywhere near enough. Wladimir was helped by TOS's showing against McCall. Brewster was hurt by McCline's showing against Rahman.

Before:
1) Vitali Klitschko: who else is it going to be?
2) Chris Byrd: great defense, limited offense, quickness is fading.
3) John Ruiz: manages to fight one shot fighter after another.
4) Andrew Golota: may or may not be shot.
5) James Toney: old, injury prone, and running out of time.
6) Jameel McCline: needs to fight like he is 6'6" and 260 lbs.
7) Monte Barrett: is doing great with new trainer.
8) Kirk Johnson: getting blown out by VK doesn't mean he should be off the list.
9) Lemon Brewster: hopefully his showing against Meehan was because it was a fixed fight.
10) Wladimir Klitschko: maybe Manny can turn it all around.

After:

1) Vitali Klitschko
2) Chris Byrd
3) Hasim Rahman
4) Corrie Sanders
5) Wladimir Klitschko
6) James Toney
7) Monte Barrett
8) Kirk Johnson

I like your "After" list, except for Wlad who I think should be around 9 or 10 on the list, and after (IF) Moorer KO's Jirov, he may make my top 10 in the 10 spot....

I've gotta give it to you Neils7147933, you definately know how to make and back up your case in your posts - I may not agree with all of them, but a good poster always gets my respect....

Well done....

I've gotta give it to you Neils7147933, you definately know how to make and back up your case in your posts - I may not agree with all of them, but a good poster always gets my respect....

Well done....

Appreciate it. It would be a boring board if everyone just typed in tribute posts to the Klitschkos, Roy Jones, and Trinidad...

wow the hw divsion sure is wack

And if Moorer KO's Jirov where do you rank Moorer?


That is not going to happen. Jirov will KO Moorer.

Well, not much changed:

My list of omissions has bigger names and potentially better champions, but this is how I feel I must rank the current "Top 10" heavyweights.

1. John Ruiz - through process of elimination. I put the three champs against each other, and Ruiz is the guy I think might survive a tournament. His recent opponents and "performances" though boring as hell are the most impressive of the three and I see him frustrating the other two like crazy. Plus, he seems to have a decent chin since his 1996 disaster. The guy dominated Rahman, TKO'd Oquendo; after Golota, he needs to try to schedule an opponent that will be more fan-friendly.
.


Your list makes me sick. Was it your intention to make people sick by putting Ruiz as # 1 (or even in top 10)?

This list was compiled over a week ago on another thread of a similar topic. I updated it by the original poster's request. I do think Ruiz would beat Vitali head-to-head, but we won't know til they fight. In the meantime, they need to be judged on who they have actually beaten in the ring.

Okay, for the millionth time...

Ruiz's resume is way better than Vitali's. Vitali's biggest wins are over Larry Donald, Herbie Hide, Kirk Johnson, and Corrie Sanders. Ruiz's are Evander Holyfield, Andrew Golota, Fres Oquendo, Hasim Rahman, and Kirk Johnson. Chris Byrd's are over Evander Holyfield, Fres Oquendo, David Tua, Jameel McCline, and yes, Vitali Klitschko.

Klitschko's greatest claims to fame are two fights he technically lost. If/when he starts beating top fighters, I will give the man his due. Until then, I will not jump on the fanboy worship wagon for a guy whose two biggest wins were over fat, out of shape has-been heavyweight Top 10 guys. And don't even start to defend Corrie Sanders - his career was over and he was concentrating on being a golf pro til he took the Wlad fight on short notice for some easy cash and ending up destroying the other #1 pretender.

It is not my intention to make anyone sick, however, if the acknowledgement that your boxing hero is vastly overrated, even in a weak division, given his actual ring accomplishments, then perhaps the next time you read a post of mine you should have a wastepaper basket, a bucket, or a trash bag nearby.

I don't mean to sound pointed, but the whole atmosphere of people asking for opinions, then belittling the people complying is a tad ridiculous. If you think Vitali is #1, okay, I can deal with it and I will tell you my opinion. But all the side comments and insults seem a bit out of place and somehow indicate that you have little to back up your opinions with.

You don't have to back up your opinions, but if you're going to insult other people's, perhaps you should be ready for someone to call you on it. Leading through six rounds against an aging champ in his last fight and quitting while ahead on the cards against another DOES NOT MAKE YOU A HEAVYWEIGHT LEGEND, even if you win a vacant championship over a guy who had no business getting a title shot in the first place.

Klitschko's greatest claims to fame are two fights he technically lost. .


The public does not care about technical losses or wins.

In substance, Ruiz did not win over Golota and Vitali did not loose against Lewis or Byrd.

That's why Vitali is considered the number 1 by the Ring Magazine.

The best boxing journalists have different criteria than you have. They base their judgement on substance and not on technicalities.

Lewis very well may have knocked Vitali out - I can buy the Byrd argument a lot better. But the Lewis fight only made it 6 rounds, McCline was well ahead of Byrd after 6 rounds, too.

Lewis very well may have knocked Vitali out - I can buy the Byrd argument a lot better. But the Lewis fight only made it 6 rounds, McCline was well ahead of Byrd after 6 rounds, too.


I agree that Lewis vs Vitali could have gone either way. I think Vitali would have KO Lewis, but I understand why people think that Lweis could have KO Vitali. In any case, the fight would not have gone the distance.

In the Byrd fight, Vitaly was winning after 9 rounds with scores 88-83, 88-83, 89-82, a 6 point lead! Even if Byrd had won rounds 10, 11, 12, the scores would have been 88-86, 88-86, 89-85 for Vitali, a 3 point lead! No comparison to McCline should be made here. Vitali and McCline are boxers from different universes!

Vitali had actually outboxed both Byrd and Lewis! Vitali's style looks strange but I think it has to do with him being 5 times world champion in kickboxing. His skill level is tremendous and he has never been outboxed.

If Vitali beats a top contender, I'll think about agreeing with the masses. Heck, if he just keeps winning and Byrd or Ruiz fall off - but just beating Williams won't do it. If King is truly keeping the "big" fights from him, he still has access to James Toney, Joe Mesi (if he can get medical clearance), Mike Tyson, Dominick Guinn, Golota? (BoxRec doesn't list Golota as a "king" fighter - are they still tied?) - or if he beats Audley Harrison or someone else "rising" convincingly.

Right now, the Vitali hype could either be prophetic - or just hype. But it's not yet justified.

If Vitali beats a top contender, I'll think about agreeing with the masses. Heck, if he just keeps winning and Byrd or Ruiz fall off - but just beating Williams won't do it. If King is truly keeping the "big" fights from him, he still has access to James Toney, Joe Mesi (if he can get medical clearance), Mike Tyson, Dominick Guinn, Golota? (BoxRec doesn't list Golota as a "king" fighter - are they still tied?) - or if he beats Audley Harrison or someone else "rising" convincingly.

Right now, the Vitali hype could either be prophetic - or just hype. But it's not yet justified.

So what's your point?

Appreciate it. It would be a boring board if everyone just typed in tribute posts to the Klitschkos, Roy Jones, and Trinidad...

As opposed to hyping John Ruiz?

As opposed to hyping John Ruiz?

I haven't started a single John Ruiz thread. The only thread I've done with Ruiz in the title is the one about the fight result.

Hell, next Monday we'll be talking about Winky Wright and the week after, we'll be talking about Morales.

Roy, Oscar, and the Klitschkos get year round love threads.

I like your "After" list, except for Wlad who I think should be around 9 or 10 on the list, and after (IF) Moorer KO's Jirov, he may make my top 10 in the 10 spot....

Thanks, but after seeing how much better TOS's chin was than we all thought, I decided to rank him that high. Of the people who I ranked below him, I really only see Johnson as having a chance of beating him.

I haven't started a single John Ruiz thread. The only thread I've done with Ruiz in the title is the one about the fight result.

Hell, next Monday we'll be talking about Winky Wright and the week after, we'll be talking about Morales.

Roy, Oscar, and the Klitschkos get year round love threads.

Well you make like Ruiz more than is humanly natural, but I can't fault you for being able to control it and not start thread after thread about him. Props to you.

1 - VK
2 - Byrd
3 - Ruiz
4 - Toney
5 - sanders
6 - rahman
7 - brewster
8 - golota
9 - wlad
10 - barrett

1 - VK
2 - Byrd
3 - Ruiz
4 - Toney
5 - sanders
6 - rahman
7 - brewster
8 - golota
9 - wlad
10 - barrett

One question...

Sanders?

he supposedly isnt retired

Yeah he is telling all of the sanctioning bodies to start ranking him again, and he is looking the fight early next year.

1. Vitali Klitshcko
2. Chris Byrd
3. Hasim Rahman
4. James Toney
5. John Ruiz
6. Andrew Golata
7. Monte Barrett
8. Lamon Brewster
9. Domick Guinn
10. Vasiliy Jirov

he supposedly isnt retired

well neither is tua and maybe neither is foreman but that doesn't make them Top 5 fighters

well neither is tua and maybe neither is foreman but that doesn't make them Top 5 fighters

Except for the fact Sanders's last fight was less than 7 months ago, Tua's was more than a year and a half ago, and Foreman's was nearly 7 years ago.

This is actually a lot harder to do after the PPV this weekend. So hard, that I am only going to do a top 8 list. 9 and 10 are wide open IMO. No one that really matters impressed me besides Rahman and he did it by beating a guy who doesn't belong in the top 100. Toney was hurt by what Donald did to Holyfield. Ruiz was hurt by his gift decision. Golota was hurt by not looking that great IMO against Ruiz. He did not jab anywhere near enough. Wladimir was helped by TOS's showing against McCall. Brewster was hurt by McCline's showing against Rahman.

Before:
1) Vitali Klitschko: who else is it going to be?
2) Chris Byrd: great defense, limited offense, quickness is fading.
3) John Ruiz: manages to fight one shot fighter after another.
4) Andrew Golota: may or may not be shot.
5) James Toney: old, injury prone, and running out of time.
6) Jameel McCline: needs to fight like he is 6'6" and 260 lbs.
7) Monte Barrett: is doing great with new trainer.
8) Kirk Johnson: getting blown out by VK doesn't mean he should be off the list.
9) Lemon Brewster: hopefully his showing against Meehan was because it was a fixed fight.
10) Wladimir Klitschko: maybe Manny can turn it all around.

After:

1) Vitali Klitschko
2) Chris Byrd
3) Hasim Rahman
4) Corrie Sanders
5) Wladimir Klitschko
6) James Toney
7) Monte Barrett
8) Kirk Johnson

you are on top of your ****

I thought Donald looked as good as Toney did against Holyfield.

No u didn't, hell he almost got ko'd only Holy wouldn't finish

Bryd
VK
Toney
Ruiz
Rahman
Brewster
Wlad
Jirov
McCline
Golota

Monte Barrett
Guinn
T.O.S

you are on top of your ****

Thanks. I agree except for my McCline typo instead of Meehan.

here's the real list....
1) Vitali Klitschko
2.) Chris Byrd
3.) Andrew Golota
4.) Mike Tyson - on 2 good legs, could KO half if not most of the cats in the division.
5.) James Toney
6.) John Ruiz
7.) Monty Barrett
8.) Hasim Rahman
9.) Vasiliy Jirov
10.) Jameel McCline

Bump...............

Reported...............