View Full Version : the could-of-been's


portuge puncher
04-23-2009, 05:56 PM
name some of the boxers that could have done more great things, but failed for one reason of another, i'll start of, Ike Ibeabuchi, the guy was great, beat an undefeated chris byrd and david tua, sux that he went crazy

Infern0
04-23-2009, 06:18 PM
Henry Cooper a 175lb light heavyweight who wore weights in his shoes to make heavyweight, Ko'd Prime Muhammed Ali, but it was right on the bell, and they cut ali's glove so they could get a replacement, then they used smelling salts. and that and the 5 minute break while they searched for a glove gave Ali time to recover. American TV later edited the fight so it looks like there is only a few extra seconds but we all know the truth, And Ali himself admitted he was on queer street after that left hook.

Southpaw16BF
04-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Sam Langford(Even do still one of the greatest of all time, it's a damn shame Langford never got more chances and had to pay for the sins of Jack Johnson, may have won a Title at every Weight class if would of been given the chance)

Charley Burley (Would may have been been remembered as a much better fightere and more of ATG if he would of got his chances)

Salvador Sanchez(But said he only wanted 1 more year boxing before he was going retire and study to become a Doctor) But would of been interesting to see what he would have done in that 1 year.

Kirkland Laing- Had scary talent, but wasn't interested in training and to busy smoking and partying, it's a shame he wasn't dedicated to the game, could of been something specail.

Tony Ayala Jr(Touted as boxing greatest ever prospect by many, When 14 years of age got the better of then WBA World Champion Pipeno Cuevas, could have been one of the ATG's, but right before he was about to hit stardom was Jailed 35 years.

Stanley Ketchel( Some say when he died, he was past his prime, but others belive the best was yet to come from Ketchel. Who knows what Ketchel may have went on to do, but was killed at only 24 years of age while still Middlweight Champion)

Ike Ibeabuchi(Touted as the future of the Heavyweight division, never beaten as a Pro, stood toe to toe with a prime David Tua, and took a decision, victory and was the first ever man to beat and KO Chris Byrd. Was senteced to Jail, and still awaits a trial. I really do belive Ike would of been World Champion)

Wilfred Benitez(Although a ATG, he never really took the sport serious, and neglected training, imagine with dedication how good Benitez may have been. A scary thought)

Meldrick Taylor(Maybe if given the decision in the Chavez fight things may have gone different for him, but he wasn't and due to this never recovered from not having his night of glory. What a Talent)

Les Darcy(Was getting ready for a fight with Harry Greb, before he died due to posion getting in his body, very sad. Would of been interesting to see what he would of when on to do and how him and Greb would of played out.

Plenty more, but these are some that come to mind. And there alot of black fighters that were could of beens.

portuge puncher
04-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Henry Cooper a 175lb light heavyweight who wore weights in his shoes to make heavyweight, Ko'd Prime Muhammed Ali, but it was right on the bell, and they cut ali's glove so they could get a replacement, then they used smelling salts. and that and the 5 minute break while they searched for a glove gave Ali time to recover. American TV later edited the fight so it looks like there is only a few extra seconds but we all know the truth, And Ali himself admitted he was on queer street after that left hook.

wow, thanx for the info, i never knew that, i always thought he just got up and was fine.

Joey Giardello
04-23-2009, 06:41 PM
Henry Cooper a 175lb light heavyweight who wore weights in his shoes to make heavyweight, Ko'd Prime Muhammed Ali, but it was right on the bell, and they cut ali's glove so they could get a replacement, then they used smelling salts. and that and the 5 minute break while they searched for a glove gave Ali time to recover. American TV later edited the fight so it looks like there is only a few extra seconds but we all know the truth, And Ali himself admitted he was on queer street after that left hook.

Great post, very intresting read

Chex31
04-23-2009, 06:50 PM
Henry Cooper a 175lb light heavyweight who wore weights in his shoes to make heavyweight, Ko'd Prime Muhammed Ali, but it was right on the bell, and they cut ali's glove so they could get a replacement, then they used smelling salts. and that and the 5 minute break while they searched for a glove gave Ali time to recover. American TV later edited the fight so it looks like there is only a few extra seconds but we all know the truth, And Ali himself admitted he was on queer street after that left hook.


The British boxing newspaper Boxing News conducted an investigation into the 'split glove' incident in 2003. Using the original television and radio broadcasts to determine length of time between rounds 4 and 5 it was discovered that Cassius Clay only gained 5 seconds extra and not the mythical 3-5 minutes. The gloves were never changed. Other sources on the matter confirm this.

Kid McCoy
04-23-2009, 07:13 PM
Henry Cooper a 175lb light heavyweight who wore weights in his shoes to make heavyweight, Ko'd Prime Muhammed Ali, but it was right on the bell, and they cut ali's glove so they could get a replacement, then they used smelling salts. and that and the 5 minute break while they searched for a glove gave Ali time to recover. American TV later edited the fight so it looks like there is only a few extra seconds but we all know the truth, And Ali himself admitted he was on queer street after that left hook.

It's a myth that the break between rounds four and five lasted anything more than a few seconds. I haven't come across one contemporary newspaper report which mentions any significant delay. One would think that a mouthy young braggart being spared a KO by a cut glove and a long delay between rounds would be newsworthy, but apparently not.

I have seen the BBC's recording of the fight and it shows no delay, unless that's been edited too. Sure Cooper has claim ed it lasted anything up to five minutes but he usually had some excuse when he lost.

adietheforestfa
04-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Kirkland Laing. Beat Roberto Duran, but didnt train much and smoked too much weed.

Infern0
04-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Well even if the delay was only a few seconds, had Cooper landed the punch half way through that round Ali would of been done for.

oldgringo
04-23-2009, 08:25 PM
Tyrone Everett - Top-tier talent was robbed of a decision win against Alfredo Escalera and was killed soon after in a domestic dispute.

Salvador Sanchez - Could have been one of the greatest fighters of all-time...I'm talking top 10/20/30 here.

David Reid - Fine boxer was moved along rather quickly and was beaten up badly by Felix Trinidad. I believe a detached retina and following complications led to his demise.

Buddy McGirt - He was a terrific boxer and he had a very good, if not great, career, but I think Buddy could have been a hall of fame fighter had he not had the chronic shoulder problems later on.

Ziggy Stardust
04-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Buster Dougles. Just think: He had the talent and all the physical tools that trainers dream of getting their hands on plus he had plus he had beautiful skills. He lacked what everyone who wants to be great has to have though: Desire. He didn't care much for boxing, didn't like to train or work hard to be the best. Without that, without the desire to gut out a tough fight or do the things you have to do to be great he would never be anything more than a journeyman who had one great night for all his physical gifts.

Poet

BennyST
04-24-2009, 05:50 AM
Les Darcy(Was getting ready for a fight with Harry Greb, before he died due to posion getting in his body, very sad. Would of been interesting to see what he would of when on to do and how him and Greb would of played out.

Good stuff mate. :fing02:

Not that many Fat Yanks seem to know much about ol' Darcy. He could have been one of the true ATG's if he had not been basically run off and had been able to get proper treatment. Dies of septicemia from a broken tooth in an old fight that didn't get treated properly. Terrible story, but what a fighter. Many of the days best champions that he beat said he was the greatest fighter they fought including Greb, among others.

A great talent that was never fully realised. At least we got to know a bit of him.

BennyST
04-24-2009, 06:06 AM
Although a lot of people mention Ayala Jr as one of the greatest prospects ever and believe he would have had an ATG career, I really don't think he ever would have amounted to much. He certainly would have become a good champion, but, I think he would not have lasted very long at the top and would have burned out very quickly.

He got hit a lot at a very young age and was a bit too physically matured for his own good. He was very strong and powerful but not nearly as skilled as many make him out to be. I'm not saying he wasn't good, because he was, very good but some (this isn't directed at you at all Southpaw, just other boxing 'experts') make him out to be the greatest thing ever, which is just absurd.

I really think he would have been a bit like a Vargas or maybe Tyson, though probably not even as good as Tyson. He would have won some titles and been a force for a short while but due to getting hit so much at such a young age his body would have crapped it on him early. He was also fighting at a time in which, if he got to the top and didn't go to jail, would have fought among a crop of incredible fighters and many great boxers who were highly skilled and I think a good boxer would have been able to beat him convincingly.

Just to show what he would have been up against, here's a very short list of guys that were at the top when he also would have been: Mike McCallum, Julian Jackson, Curry, McCrory, Graham, etc and no doubt he would have moved up to MW and been up against all the great MW's as well.

I mean, that was arguably the greatest era ever for the middleweight and surrounding divisions and a banger/brawler that didn't have the skills that so many of those top guys did back then just wouldn't have lasted long at the top. Even a guy like Jackson had boxing skills that would probably outdo a lot of the so called 'skilled boxers' of today.

nelsoncm
04-24-2009, 06:24 AM
Naseem Hamed.

I would have wanted to see a more versatile Hamed after the Barrera loss. Instead, he showed he doesn't have what it takes to be great and retired instead of getting back up.

One loss spelled doom for him.

?枯葉剤?
04-26-2009, 03:12 AM
Sam Langford(Even do still one of the greatest of all time, it's a damn shame Langford never got more chances and had to pay for the sins of Jack Johnson, may have won a Title at every Weight class if would of been given the chance)

Charley Burley (Would may have been been remembered as a much better fightere and more of ATG if he would of got his chances)

Salvador Sanchez(But said he only wanted 1 more year boxing before he was going retire and study to become a Doctor) But would of been interesting to see what he would have done in that 1 year.

Kirkland Laing- Had scary talent, but wasn't interested in training and to busy smoking and partying, it's a shame he wasn't dedicated to the game, could of been something specail.

Tony Ayala Jr(Touted as boxing greatest ever prospect by many, When 14 years of age got the better of then WBA World Champion Pipeno Cuevas, could have been one of the ATG's, but right before he was about to hit stardom was Jailed 35 years.

Stanley Ketchel( Some say when he died, he was past his prime, but others belive the best was yet to come from Ketchel. Who knows what Ketchel may have went on to do, but was killed at only 24 years of age while still Middlweight Champion)

Ike Ibeabuchi(Touted as the future of the Heavyweight division, never beaten as a Pro, stood toe to toe with a prime David Tua, and took a decision, victory and was the first ever man to beat and KO Chris Byrd. Was senteced to Jail, and still awaits a trial. I really do belive Ike would of been World Champion)

Wilfred Benitez(Although a ATG, he never really took the sport serious, and neglected training, imagine with dedication how good Benitez may have been. A scary thought)

Meldrick Taylor(Maybe if given the decision in the Chavez fight things may have gone different for him, but he wasn't and due to this never recovered from not having his night of glory. What a Talent)

Les Darcy(Was getting ready for a fight with Harry Greb, before he died due to posion getting in his body, very sad. Would of been interesting to see what he would of when on to do and how him and Greb would of played out.

Plenty more, but these are some that come to mind. And there alot of black fighters that were could of beens.

Good list, throw in Gerald McClellan and Michael Watson.

Hawk O'Connor
04-26-2009, 04:08 AM
More recently, Ricardo Williams Jr.

Benny Leonard
04-26-2009, 05:59 AM
How about Chris Byrd as a Light-Heavyweight instead of someone who ate his way up to HW to reach his dreams to be HW Champion.

Abstraction
04-26-2009, 07:42 AM
Henry Cooper a 175lb light heavyweight who wore weights in his shoes to make heavyweight, Ko'd Prime Muhammed Ali, but it was right on the bell, and they cut ali's glove so they could get a replacement, then they used smelling salts. and that and the 5 minute break while they searched for a glove gave Ali time to recover. American TV later edited the fight so it looks like there is only a few extra seconds but we all know the truth, And Ali himself admitted he was on queer street after that left hook.

He didn;t Ko anyone mate.

He knocked Muhammad Ali down, something quite common in the HW division.

He was humiliated and hurt badly after the bout, so i really don't know why people actually bring the bout up, just makes him look worse

Spiegelo
04-30-2009, 03:41 AM
Well the verdict is still out on this one, but potentially James Kirkland (let's hope not).