View Full Version : Dempsey's plastered wraps. Dempsey-Willard revisited.


BattlingNelson
04-23-2009, 10:23 AM
This is from an excellent piece I found at Sports Illustrated's vault. The story is told by Jack Dempsey's flamboyant manager Jack Kearns and as such is his eyewitness account of the fight between Jess Willard and Jack Dempsey. I've made the excerpts only to cover the story of the alleged plastering of Dempsey's wraps. The full article is here:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075547/index.htm

"...
I had bet $10,000, which we could not afford to lose, at 10 to 1, that Dempsey would win in the first round. If he did, we would make a tidy $100,000—equivalent to Willard's guarantee and substantially more than our own $27,500 guarantee.

I had schemed and connived over too many years to let anything go wrong with a bet like that, let alone with the championship of the world. The hell with being a gallant loser. I intended to win.

My plan had to do with a small white can sitting innocently among the fight gear on the kitchen table. I poured myself a nightcap and picked up the can, grinning at the neat blue letters on its side. All it said was "Talcum Powder." Then I latched the kitchen door and went to a corner cupboard that extended from tabletop height to the ceiling. I pulled over a chair and stood on it to reach into a niche far back on the topmost shelf. Not even a drunk would have thought of hiding a bottle in that spot. Several days earlier, on an unaccompanied trip into Toledo, I had bought another can of powder. This one was labeled "Plaster of Paris," and I was looking for it now. It was there.

I put the two cans side by side on the kitchen table. Then I found a knife and pried off their lids. I spread out a handkerchief and dumped the talcum powder into it, then knotted the corners together. Next I poured the plaster of paris into the talcum-powder can and replaced the lid. Set back among the fight gear—the bandages, the Vaseline, the razor blades, the cotton—it looked as innocent as any of them. There was just one more thing to be done. I picked up the plaster of paris can and the handkerchief full of talcum powder, unlatched the kitchen door and walked the 50 yards to the shore of Maumee Bay, where I pitched the whole business out into the dark waters. That was why the party had to end before dawn. That was something I wanted no man to see. Standing there in the dark, I knew we were as ready as Dempsey's condition and my plotting ability could make us.

It may seem strange but, returning to the house, my conscience was easy. I was a product of the days—have they ever ended?—when it was every man for himself. In those times you got away with everything possible. Turn your head, or let the other guy turn his, and knuckles were wrapped in heavy black bicycle tape or the thick lead foil in which bulk tea was packaged. The net result was much like hitting a man with a leather-padded mallet. The rules were lax then, officials were not at all fussy and there were few boxing commissions.

...

A witness from each camp was to observe the bandaging of hands as insurance against jiggery-pokery. I was to supervise Willard's preparations, and his chief second, Walter Moynahan, was to oversee the putting on of Dempsey's wrap.

This is standard practice at all big fights, and wisely so, because the stakes are so large. Even today, when prizefighting is at a low ebb, one fixed fight can orbit a mediocre boxer into the 90% income-tax-bracket status. We didn't know it at the time of the Dempsey-Willard fight, but this was the most important prefight moment in boxing's history. It was a moment that would usher in the era of the million-dollar gate.

Willard was waiting, completely relaxed, as I walked into his quarters. When I waved a greeting he gave me a look I believe he reserved for panhandlers. He was very careful with his money.

Let's get on with it," he grunted.

Willard's reluctance to part with money was clearly evident in the caliber of his entourage. They were inexperienced and worked cheap. They were so nervous that they fumbled with his hand bandages.

"For God's sake," I butted in, just to help upset them a little more. "Don't wind them up on his wrists. Put them on his knuckles, where he needs them."

"If you want," I volunteered, pushing the blunt needle in a little deeper, "I'll do it for you."

"Get away from me," Willard growled suspiciously as I started forward.

I grinned at him.

"Suit yourself," I said. "Suit yourself."

As they finished with the bandages, I interrupted again.

"Take this here sponge," I snapped, grabbing one from a water bucket. "Put some water on his bandages to keep his hands cool."

Willard was getting mad now. His face flushed, and not altogether because of the heat.

"Why don't you get out of here?" he said, snarling.

"Just trying to help," I answered with a shrug. "But I got a right in here and I'll stay till the job's finished."

Leaving one of my handlers behind to make sure no one tampered with Willard's hands, I returned to our dressing room to bandage Dempsey under Moynahan's suspicious supervision. On the way I assumed a friendly and sympathetic attitude toward Willard's chief second.

"You should have dampened those bandages and put on some talcum powder," I told him. "His hands would've been much more comfortable."

Moynahan nodded in frustrated agreement.

"I know," he said. "But you can't tell that Jess to do something if he don't want to do it."

Reaching our dressing room, I quickly wound on Dempsey's bandages under Moynahan's vigilant inspection. After I finished with the wrappings, I turned to Jimmy DeForest, my trainer, and pointed to the water bucket.

"Give me that sponge well soaked with water," I ordered. "I want to keep the kid's hands cool."

In an aside to Moynahan, I told him again: "This is what you should've done for Willard."

The sponge, dripping with water, made a sloshing sound as I clamped it to the bandages on Dempsey's hands. In a moment they were drenched through.

"Now the talcum powder," I directed DeForest, and he passed me that innocent-looking, blue-lettered can. I sprinkled its contents heavily over the soaked bandages.

"No question," I rattled on to the unsuspecting Moynahan as I set the can safely aside, "this really is what you should have done for Willard."

Moynahan made no comment. Dempsey, who was entirely innocent of what had happened, stood there in what amounted almost to a stupor. I had to hide a smile as the call came to enter the ring."

I highly recommend reading the rest of the article that includes eyewitness accounts of the fight itself and a fun tale of Battling Nelson taking a bath in lemonade.

The fight is here:

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PS: I originally posted this thread in NSB. It was intended for this forum.

Southpaw Stinger
04-23-2009, 10:34 AM
Just for interest here are some pics of Dempsey's wrapped hands before the fight.

Dempsey getting into the ring

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt280/BoxingArchive/DempseyWillardHand.jpg


Dempsey in his corner before the fight

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt280/BoxingArchive/DempseyWillardHand2.jpg

No sign of plaster of paris.

The test sports illustrated conducted in 1964, using the method described by Kearns, they wrapped the hands of heavyweight contender Cleveland Williams with the plaster wraps. After hitting the bag a few times the plaster crumbled. They concluded it would be more hazardess for the wearer's hands than to the opponent.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt280/BoxingArchive/ClevelandWilliams.jpg

Also Teddy Hayes (another Dempsey second) cut the wraps after the fight and had no trouble doing so. No trace of plaster. I think Kearns was just looking for a quick buck when he concocted that rumour, his fall out with Dempsey supports this.

BattlingNelson
04-23-2009, 10:48 AM
I didn't know that SI did a test of Kearns story.

I did know that Kearns and Dempsey's relationship had deteriorated badly at the time Kearns wrote his story, giving him a motive to taint Dempsey's legacy.

Southpaw Stinger
04-23-2009, 10:54 AM
I didn't know that SI did a test of Kearns story.

I did know that Kearns and Dempsey's relationship had deteriorated badly at the time Kearns wrote his story, giving him a motive to taint Dempsey's legacy.

And Kearns never missed an opportunity to make a little money.

And the test that SI conducted was with Cleveland Williams.

Southpaw16BF
04-23-2009, 10:55 AM
Interesting.....There was pice about this circumstances of this fights in Ring Magazine I read a few week backs. About Illegal Hand Wraps.And it talked alot about this fight (Dempsey v Willard) and the hand wrap situation which invlovled the fight here are some of the thing's they say and quotes from the Magazine.

''When Jess Willard was an eldery man, he use to invite reporters to touch his face ''Feel this he'd say, using one of his giant hands to guide the reporters fingers. Willard wanted them to feel the reminder of his bout that happened 40 years ago, in Ohio. Reporters never knew how how to respond. A section of Willards cheeckbone still moved around under the skin like a loose coin''

''This is what Dempsey did'' Willard wouls say ''Do you think a little guy could do that without something in his gloves''???

Jack Kearns claimed to have covered Dempsey's wraps in plaster of paris. Kearns was trying to ensure Dempsey would win by first round KO, because of a bet he had placed. according to Kearns Dempsey thought his wraps were being covered in talcing powder.

Dempsey who had suffered these rumours in the past, was livid when the pice came out. He claimed Kearns was just a bitter old man telling lies. Dempsey often clamied the loaded glove theory was started by Willard although he admitted to author Peter Heller ''that in those you could put all the tape on your hands you wanted''

In all subsequent career, Dempsey never inflicted such dredfull damage on an opponet. And he did it to this one in the very first round'' wrote Kearns.

''In those times. Turn head, or let the other guy turn his, and kncukles were wrapped in heavy black bicycle tape or the thick lead foil in which bulk tea was packaged. The net result was much liking hitting a man with a leather padded mallet. The rules were lax then, officails were not at all fussy, and there were few boxing commissions.

His bandages became hardened, no dout and that why he cut Willard face to ribbons''

As for the Kearns stroy ''He was dying and was broke. He would of said anything for money'' Also Kearns had once been a fighter himslef. He used to spin yarns of his days in boxing frontier towns, when he covered his own hands in plaster. Those close to Kearns wondred if the mental misfits of old age had caused him to confuse Dempseys life with his own.

''I was a product of the days-have they ever ended-when it was very man for himslef'' Kearns wrote.

Reggie Miller
04-23-2009, 11:32 AM
I saw Dempsey's SportsCentury profile last year, during his last years he sued SI for talking about the ''plaster controversy'' on the Willard fight.

but looking on those pictures, i see no foreign substance, or any plaster involved.

black.ink
04-23-2009, 11:51 AM
I read the same article as Southpaw16bf in the Ring magazine a few weeks ago. It seems that there is still no explanation to the truth.

It's hard to imagine a small Heavyweight in Jack Dempsey, no matter how brutal he hit, to destroy a big man in Jess Willard in the fashion he did in a fair way.

Perhaps Kearns didn't entirely tell the truth. Maybe he was hiding what really happened, as i have read that the method Kearns used, was tried and tested to no avail.

One thing is for sure, Willard showed tremendous heart in that fight no matter if Dempsey had cheated or not. To take that sort of punishment and getting up for more, shocked me on first viewing the fight.

Great article Bat! I'm always interested in big boxing scandals (Liston/Ali, Mosley, Trinidad etc..)

portuge puncher
04-23-2009, 12:08 PM
has anyone ever heard of determination? think about it, jack dempsey didnt have a penny to his name, he was a ****in; hobo, barley enough food to survive, sleeping i the streets. and then he gat a shot at the heavywieght crown. imagine yourin his place. he didnt use plaster, he was just, at that moment in time, the hungreyest fighter in history. it was all or nothing for dempsey, and he knew. so he attack willard with every once of streagth he had, thats why willard lost, not plaster.

Southpaw16BF
04-23-2009, 03:46 PM
Here are pictures of Demspey landing on Willard.
http://static.boxrec.com/wiki/thumb/3/3e/Dempsey.Willard.jpg/300px-Dempsey.Willard.jpg

http://pro.corbis.com/images/BE059349.jpg?size=67&uid=%7BF9F2250C-CDD9-4C14-853B-6C6A8DB67E2F%7D

Look closey at Willards face in this picture.. His face is a complete mess.
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/images/JackDempsey-JessWillard-7-4-1919-Corbis-1.jpg

BattlingNelson
04-23-2009, 04:07 PM
This guy claims to have Dempsey's glove without trace of plaster.

http://www.antekprizering.com/dempseygloveshermanart.jpeg

Southpaw16BF
04-23-2009, 04:20 PM
Dempsey and Willard: The Worst Beating in Boxing History?

by B. R. Bearden

It is 1919 and the heavyweight champion of the world is a giant named Jess Willard. The 6'6 ½", 245 pound Willard had taken the title from an over-the-hill Jack Johnson, ending the search for a "great white hope" to dethrone the great but unpopular black champion. His newest challenger is a savage fighter out of the west by the name of Jack Dempsey, who at 6'1" and 187 pounds seems to belong to a weight class several places below Jess. The fight is set for the 4th of July in Toledo, Ohio and thousands of fans have paid to sit in a sweltering heat and watch the contest.

Prior to the start of the fight, promoter Tex Rickard visits Dempsey and his manager Jack "Doc" Kearns in his dressing room. Kearns had to all but beg Tex to set up a fight between his man and the giant Willard, a battle that seems a mismatch on size alone. "Every time I see Willard he looks bigger and every time I see you, you look smaller," a worried Rickard says to the lean, hard Dempsey. He urges Jack to stay down if Willard knocks him down; he doesn't want to be associated with a murder in front of thousands of witnesses.

Dempsey growls there's nothing to worry about. He has no fear of Willard, or any other man. In the dark thoughts of The Manassa Mauler, Willard's size represents a bigger target, not a threat. There's a fire smoldering in Dempsey, a hunger burning since his days as a hobo who fought in the back alleys behind bars for the price of a meal. From the time he was 15 he's fought grown men, often giving up fifty or more pounds; sometimes taking a terrible beating. No, he doesn't fear Willard.

In the ring the champion appears calm and confident. He towers over the smaller man but anyone looking at the sun bronzed frame and tightly packed muscles of Dempsey can see the contrast. Willard is bigger but he's not in the shape of the challenger. He looks soft whereas Dempsey looks like a coiled spring without an ounce of fat, his hair shaved close on the sides of his head only adding to the fierce aspect of the man. It's a look Mike Tyson will emulate 65 years later.

The bell rings and Dempsey comes after the champion as if he's hated him all his life. He is savage, he is relentless, he is a demon in boxing gloves. Willard goes down from a terrific punch and The Mauler stands over him. The neutral corner rule won't be introduced to boxing until seven years later, time Willard doesn't have, and Jack stands over the fallen man. By the rules of the day he's allowed to hit the opponent as soon as his knees are off the floor. Many fighters step back, give their foe a chance to rise, but not Dempsey; in the ring he has the instincts of a natural killer. Jess rises and Dempsey pounces, raining lethal blows upon his head, driving his gloves to the wrists in the big man's belly.

Dempsey has bet his entire share of the purse at 10-1 odds that he will knock Willard out in the first round and it appears he means to do it even at the cost of Willard's life. There's a snarl on the face of Dempsey that reminds those at ringside more of a blood-mad tiger than a man; decades later old men who were there that day will still comment on the bared teeth and blazing eyes of the Mauler as if recalling some nightmare never forgotten. The primal fury of Dempsey is not to be denied. Before the round ends Jess is down seven times. His body is covered in ugly red welts, he's bleeding from a shattered nose and mashed lips. Barely he beats the bell and is helped to his corner. So sure is Demsey that the contest is over that he leaves the ring. But Willard doesn't want to quit and the referee won't gainsay the champion; Dempsey is called back to the ring just in time to make the bell. The beating continues.

Two more brutal rounds and more trips to the canvas for Willard. He is hit with uppercuts, left hooks, overhand rights; thudding, painful blows from every angle. When he holds onto the ropes to rise Dempsey smashes him with punches, when he tries to hold Dempsey tears free and pummels him. Jess is literally beaten from post to post and even the crowd who paid to see this are shouting for it to be stopped. Somehow Willard survives the second and third rounds, but on his stool after the third the champion is near-dead and his second throws in the towel. Even then, Willard disagrees and wants to continue; he sets the bar by which a champion loses his title to a height as tall as himself. But there won't be a forth round and perhaps Jess's life hinges on that respite.

Dempsey's hand is raised in victory as Willard is helped from the ring. Those supporting his tortured frame hear him mutter to himself, over and over, "I have a farm in Iowa and a hundred thousand in the bank. I have a farm."

The doctors tend to the ex-champ, amazed he withstood such a beating without dying. His injuries resemble the result of a bad car crash more than a boxing match; nose completely smashed, cheek bone cracked, jaw broken in seven places, four front teeth somewhere back in the ring, broken ribs, partial loss of hearing in one ear. Someone remarks that one more round and he'd be dead; he is already on the verge.

Later there would be allegations of loaded gloves on the part of Dempsey, based on the words of a disgruntled member of his camp and the opinion of boxing experts, and Willard, that no man could hit so hard. It's claimed he wrapped his hands in bandages soaked in Plaster-of-Paris. The inventor of the product comes to the US to testify to the impossibility of using Plaster-of-Paris without breaking all the bones in the hands. It would be like striking a cement wall with bare hands. Doc Kearns adds fuel to the fire, and angers Willard, by joking, "Naw, I didn't use plaster of Paris on the bandages. It was cement."

A study of the film gives the explanation to the injuries. A big, overmatched fighter is hurt by the first solid punch and for three rounds plays the part of a human punching bag. The lack of a neutral corner rule allows Dempsey to hit him while he's rising or hanging on the ropes, when his body isn't prepared for the impact. Just as Houdini would die after taking an unexpected punch which ruptured his appendix, Jess Willard's body absorbs a greater degree of force than he would were he ready for the punches. The shock of impact of Dempsey's blows isn't lessened by rolling with the punch or allowing the force to push the man back, it's taken in its totality by the big body of Willard and something has to give. Bones break and teeth crumble and Jess Willard survives by the margin of minutes, perhaps only seconds, one of the worst beatings in the history of prize fighting.

Kid McCoy
04-23-2009, 05:21 PM
I thought the loaded gloves claims had been debunked years ago. Monte Cox did a case study of it and concluded that Willard's injuries were not as substantial as history recalls:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/dempsey_gloves.html

LondonRingRules
04-23-2009, 10:48 PM
I thought the loaded gloves claims had been debunked years ago. Monte Cox did a case study of it and concluded that Willard's injuries were not as substantial as history recalls:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/dempsey_gloves.html

** Makes Ferdie look like a tool.

I would point out Joe Louis had a signature bout like this in the Schmeling rematch. Schmeling busted up in a singular manner that Joe never duplicated before or after.

It's 2009 and the officials haven't even made a decent case for the wraps of Margarito being "loaded" although clearly he had something not of regulation.

Did a little experiment on a leg cast I'd kept from a decades ago motorcycle accident because a friend had painted some Peter Max type art work on it. After a humongous rainstorm I tossed it out on my compost pile to break up. Humidity near 100%, and the Marg controversy came up.

So I grabbed it, held it against a big oak with one hand and popped it with the other. The humidity had softened it enough for me to ding with a 6" pop. Folks, it rains in those gloves. An iron bolt is way too obvious and risky not to mention you could break your fingers.

Now, in Marg's case, plaster today can be of the hardened, water proof epoxy blend, but still, how much is a thin strip gonna gain? It's not like there's any scientific proof it works. I like the leaded tape theory if we go down the loaded gloves route, but then every fighter could be suspect on an unexpected KO.

Gauze wraps are a plasterless cast to protect the hands already. The added benefit is they allow a fighter to produce more power which is why the KO% have been going up since introduction of gloves and wraps.

As far as Jess's injuries, I believe there are quotes where he recounts his injuries and allows reporters to feel some broken spots. Jaw busted in 13 places sounds over the top though for example. Arthur Abraham had his busted in 4 places by Miranda is the claim with the loss of something like 2 liters of blood, also over the top.

Who knows? Dempsey sure looks open and confident though. Poor Jess got flattened.

Dempsey ended up with the best combinations to start and finish a title. The combo that knocked Willard down in the beginning, just wicked quick and deadly, and the same deal in the Long Count sequence. Jack could really put it together.

MarkScott
04-23-2009, 10:57 PM
I've heard very good argments on both sides of this issue. Gunboat Smith said he and a lot of fighters would regularly wear "loaded gloves."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786439947/ref=s9_sims_gw_s1_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0DKAZT9MGBKRWVKKAEYK&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

Davros?
04-24-2009, 05:06 AM
I don’t really think Dempsey's gloves were loaded, Dempsey landed loads of clean punches on Williard in the first round and its more than possible to cut someone's face up with legal gloves look at Vitali vs Lewis, Willard was an erect target for Dempsey he had no head movement and Dempsey was able to hit him at will. I will not take anything away from Dempsey for this win until there is actual 100% proof that he had loaded gloves, and there are plenty of pics of him pre fight before he had the gloves on.

BattlingNelson
04-24-2009, 06:18 AM
I thought the loaded gloves claims had been debunked years ago. Monte Cox did a case study of it and concluded that Willard's injuries were not as substantial as history recalls:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/dempsey_gloves.html
That was a great read! Thanks.

A have few tiny remarks.

First to the fighters being interviewed postfight. It was common for newspapers to print interviews or the fighters self-written statements after a big fight. I seriously doubt that it was always the fighter who answered or wrote the story. More likely the story was based on comments by the seconds.

Second is in regard to the plastering. The boxing illustrated piece allegedly shows that the outlined procedure by Kearns is impossible. Well what is the right procedure if you want to cheat with plaster of paris? We know for a fact that Luis Resto's wraps were plastered in his fight with Billy Collins jr. We also know that Antonio Margarito's wrappings contained a 'plasterlike substance'. What did they do to prevent the hands and fingers from breaking?

Maybe a job for 'Mythbusters'? :lol1:

LondonRingRules
04-24-2009, 11:36 AM
We know for a fact that Luis Resto's wraps were plastered in his fight with Billy Collins jr.

** No, the plaster claim only came years later when Resto was doing his sob story true confessions trying to be reinstated as a cornerman.

Don't recall any plaster claims in the day. It was always about the gloves and padding removed. Panama Lewis denies everything and has largely kept mum on the matter, probably figuring it's a no win situation he's in.

BattlingNelson
04-24-2009, 11:42 AM
** No, the plaster claim only came years later when Resto was doing his sob story true confessions trying to be reinstated as a cornerman.

Don't recall any plaster claims in the day. It was always about the gloves and padding removed. Panama Lewis denies everything and has largely kept mum on the matter, probably figuring it's a no win situation he's in.
That's right. Resto and Lewis were convicted based on removal of the padding. The plasterconfession came later from Resto.

Regardless. I've read about several trying to cheat with plaster but is still puzzled as to how that might work. According to eyewitnesses in the Marg scandal there was a hardened gauze with plasterlike substance in the wrappings. I could see that be very harmfull and still protective of the hand if applied properly.

GJC
04-25-2009, 09:47 AM
It's hard to imagine a small Heavyweight in Jack Dempsey, no matter how brutal he hit, to destroy a big man in Jess Willard in the fashion he did in a fair way.


Louis gave Carnera a fairly comprehensive beating and quite a size differential there. Willard wasn't a particularily good fighter Dempsey was an ATG.
I think the loaded gloves is an urban myth, though I know that Willard thought to his dying day Dempsey's gloves were loaded. A lot of fighters like an excuse though.
It was a great fighter Dempsey's greatest fight, it was just unlucky for an out of shape poor champion he got in the way.

Dariusz
01-21-2014, 06:44 PM
First post here, greetings all from Poland. The mystery of this fight interested me long ago. Now, after a several hours spent on the forum, I think am happy to find a good place to discuss thoughts with true fans and knowledgeable people.

Here is another good article about the issue:

thecruelestsport.com/2013/05/07/hard-times-the-mystery-of-the-jack-dempsey-jess-willard-fight

(I cannot put url so copy and paste it, please)

I personally tend to agree with the author's suspicions that something was wrong there; of course do not believe in plaster or iron rod stories but in special hardening techniques for bandages -- why not ? Dempsey was a great puncher but this was too much IMO. Bone fractures are rare thing.
The problem in all sports is always to jeopardize the position of a well-accepted champion and throwing him/her from a pedestal. I think this is the issue here -- Dempsey could win fair, but he (deliberately or not) chooses a way to be more ensured about the positive outcome against the favourite. Similarily to Ali with the famous ropes tension in the battle against Foreman -- I feel deep inside something was on with that.

Cheers all

ShoulderRoll
01-21-2014, 08:24 PM
The suspicion of Dempsey comes from the Doc Kearns story. But that was proven to be bunk since the method described doesn't work.

Unless someone comes up with actual proof I consider Jack to be innocent and to have beaten Willard fair and square.

billeau2
01-22-2014, 12:41 AM
First post here, greetings all from Poland. The mystery of this fight interested me long ago. Now, after a several hours spent on the forum, I think am happy to find a good place to discuss thoughts with true fans and knowledgeable people.

Here is another good article about the issue:

thecruelestsport.com/2013/05/07/hard-times-the-mystery-of-the-jack-dempsey-jess-willard-fight

(I cannot put url so copy and paste it, please)

I personally tend to agree with the author's suspicions that something was wrong there; of course do not believe in plaster or iron rod stories but in special hardening techniques for bandages -- why not ? Dempsey was a great puncher but this was too much IMO. Bone fractures are rare thing.
The problem in all sports is always to jeopardize the position of a well-accepted champion and throwing him/her from a pedestal. I think this is the issue here -- Dempsey could win fair, but he (deliberately or not) chooses a way to be more ensured about the positive outcome against the favourite. Similarily to Ali with the famous ropes tension in the battle against Foreman -- I feel deep inside something was on with that.

Cheers all


They used quite a few substances.....things like wormwood and linseed oil. Resin also. Most of it was probably placebo but whp knows haha.

Welcome aboard!

mickey malone
01-22-2014, 01:31 AM
Have'nt read every post, but I know that there's a couple of 'loaded glove' stories that were banded about over the years.. One was about a horseshoe, Willard kept in a draw, and would show people telling them,' that's what beat me'
The other, was a tale about an iron bolt found on the ring apron after the fight had ended... Probably myths, but points of interest nevertheless.

Dariusz
01-24-2014, 06:51 PM
Unless someone comes up with actual proof I consider Jack to be innocent and to have beaten Willard fair and square.

Although, as I said, I think Dempsey cheated this way or another -- I agree to your words. In fact, everyone must agree.

Ivich
02-21-2014, 01:16 PM
Kearns did not wrap Dempsey's hands , his trainer Jimmy Deforest did.It was witnessed by Nat Fleischer who categorically stated there was nothing illegal about the procedure .

mickey malone
02-21-2014, 02:03 PM
:sleeping:

louis54
02-24-2014, 09:53 PM
on you tube the longer version of the bout is there and you can see dempsey and willard entering the ring with there hands wrapped . then willard goes and shakes hands with dempsey. then you see the gloves being taken out of their boxes to glove up the boxers. it was common practise to enter the ring with wraps, get inspected, and then get gloved so nothing happens. you can see it for willard - johnson, langford - flynn, here and other bouts of that time.
if dempsey had hard tape underneath then willard didnt notice and or care. there is no evidencce to support loaded gloves mainly because it never happened.
watch the film

jack p
07-18-2014, 12:03 PM
Dempsey probably wetted the tape as it was a common practice back then
Also Dempsey would keep his fist loose as he was throwing his punch
then right before impact he would tighten his fist so when his punch landed it was like a convulsive snap ...

here he explains it

" But, as the relaxed left hand speeds toward the bag, suddenly close the hand with a convulsive, grabbing snap. Close it with such a terrific
grab that when the second knuckle of the upright fist smashes into the bag, the fist and the arm and the shoulder will be "frozen" steel-hard by
the terrific grabbing tension.
That convulsive, freezing grab is the explosion."

Taken from...Championship Fighting
Explosive Punching
and
Aggressive Defense...by Jack Dempsey
If anyone wants a copy of Dempseys book for free email me

billeau2
07-18-2014, 02:26 PM
Dempsey probably wetted the tape as it was a common practice back then
Also Dempsey would keep his fist loose as he was throwing his punch
then right before impact he would tighten his fist so when his punch landed it was like a convulsive snap ...

here he explains it

" But, as the relaxed left hand speeds toward the bag, suddenly close the hand with a convulsive, grabbing snap. Close it with such a terrific
grab that when the second knuckle of the upright fist smashes into the bag, the fist and the arm and the shoulder will be "frozen" steel-hard by
the terrific grabbing tension.
That convulsive, freezing grab is the explosion."

Taken from...Championship Fighting
Explosive Punching
and
Aggressive Defense...by Jack Dempsey
If anyone wants a copy of Dempseys book for free email me

I love this book!