What do you guys know of Kerrys war record?

Senator John Kerrys presidential campaign, naturally enough, brought attention to his Vietnam military service. While in Vietnam (from December '68 to April '69), Kerry commanded a river patrol boat in the Mekong Delta. He was wounded three times and won a Silver and Bronze star for his combat activities. Because of his wounds, he requested and received three Purple Heart medals and invoked Navy rule 1300.39 to get sent home early. The 1300.39 rule stated that an officer receiving two wounds that required hospitalization, or three wounds of any severity, could request a reassignment, which "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." At the time, these requests were usually granted, and the officer was allowed to leave Vietnam early. The marines had a similar rule, used during the battle for Khe Shan in early 1968. For several months, the marine base of Khe Shan was under siege, and heavy fire. The marines established a policy whereby anyone who was lightly wounded three times, got to leave the embattled base. Naturally, any marine that was seriously wounded got evacuated to a hospital.



During the Vietnam war, American troops were wounded 352,000 times. But 43 percent of those were "light wounds," that were typically treated within the unit, and often the soldier went right back to work. All three of Kerrys wounds were of this sort, although one of them required that he take it easy for two days. Some 13 percent of the wounds were fatal, often instantly. Another 21 percent were serious, and left the soldier permanently disabled. But 23 percent were serious wounds that eventually healed with no permanent damage. Most of these were what troops called "Million Dollar Wounds." That means you were banged up badly enough to get sent home, but not permanently hurt.



The navy policy of turning three light wounds into a "Million Dollar Wound" can be traced to similar policies developed during World War II to avoid serious morale problems. The air war in Europe turned out to be quite bloody, and aircrews soon did the math and calculated that they had a near zero chance of surviving if they kept flying bombing missions over Nazi occupied Europe. So the brass established a system where, once a man had flown a number of missions that gave him a 50 percent chance of surviving, he would be transferred to a less lethal job (often as instructors for new aircrews). No such policy was adapted for infantry troops, even though their job was nearly as lethal, in the long run, as was being in a bomber crew. But the infantryman's chances varied considerably depending on which division he was in. Moreover, the infantry had already established informal policies that got men out of action before they went mad from the stress. The navy had nothing as lethal as the heavy bomber missions, although service in submarines were a high risk job. Submarine crewmen were watched carefully for the effects of stress from two many combat cruises.



When the Korean War came along in 1950, the public uproar over reservists (many of whom were World War II veterans) being called up to fight in another long war led to another new policy. This was the "13 month tour of duty." In past wars, you were "in for the duration" (until victory, your death, or a Million Dollar Wound.) Rather than just apply the 13th month rule to combat troops, it was applied to everyone. The rule was revived during the Vietnam war, and, as we see with the navy's "three wound" policy, there were additional ways for a hard hit combat veteran to get cut some slack.



While these policies to limit combat exposure were popular, they did not appeal to everyone. In the infantry, especially elite infantry units (about ten percent of the total), it was not unusual for troops to volunteer to stay in for Vietnam for two or three tours. Moreover, men in infantry units develop strong personal bonds with each other, and are often eager to get back to their buddies after being wounded. There's a strong sense of mutual obligation among combat troops that produces this reaction. But the average soldier would take any opportunity to get out of combat. Most troops counted the days until their 13 month tour was up. At Khe Shan, marines who got the three wounds could leave without losing the respect of their buddies, although it was considered bad form to put in for a Purple Heart medal for each of those three light wounds. Among combat troops, one Purple Heart per war or campaign was considered sufficient, and many light wounds were never turned into Purple Hearts. One famous Bill Mauldin "Willie and Joe" World War II cartoon shows a ragged GI with a light wound standing in front of a table, behind which a medic offers him a Purple Heart. The GI says, "I already got one, can I have a couple of Asperin instead?"

he served for 4 months

He got a purple heart for an injury that didn't even require a band aid

He was an officer and could vote if he wanted to give himself a purple heart

This man throws around his war record - pretty funny

He throws his medals at the white house - o no wait he didn't throw his medals - o no wait he did throw his medal - o now he has his medals - and now he threw his ribbons

Kerry is an assclown
He says whatever he thinks the people want to hear
He acts like he supports the war when he is around pro war people and he acts like he is against the war when hes around ant-war people
He said he voted for the funding of the war and then said he didnt

He was talking about how he has all american made automobiles and say he has this car and a suburban and a few suvs and then when he meets with tree hugging enviornmentalists he tells them how he drives little cars and bull**** and someone asks about him saying he has suvs and he says thier my families

This man is a jerkoff

Honestly you have to ask yourself who is osama bin laden hoping wins - who are all thes dirty terrorist ****s hoping wins this election - Kerry is thier man - they will all celebrate if Kerry wins

Truthfully i do not agree with bush on alot of his policies, but he is what we need - Kerry is a crock of ****

and Bush was in the national guard and left early because he had to be tested for drugs.

Whats your point?

What Kerry's fellow officers have to say 5/4/2004 2:35:03 PM
The following was published in the Wall Street Journal today. The author commanded the same Swift Boat as Kerry. He took command after the end of Kerry's four month "tour".

HOUSTON--In 1971, I debated John Kerry, then a national spokesman for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, for 90 minutes on "The Dick Cavett Show." The key issue in that debate was Mr. Kerry's claim that American troops were committing war crimes in Vietnam "on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command." Now, as Sen. Kerry emerges as the presumptive Democratic nominee for the presidency, I've chosen to re-enter the fray.
Like John Kerry, I served in Vietnam as a Swift Boat commander. Ironically, John Kerry and I served much of our time, a full 12 months in my case and a controversial four months in his, commanding the exact same six-man boat, PCF-94, which I took over after he requested early departure. Despite our shared experience, I still believe what I believed 33 years ago--that John Kerry slandered America's military by inventing or repeating grossly exaggerated claims of atrocities and war crimes in order to advance his own political career as an antiwar activist. His misrepresentations played a significant role in creating the negative and false image of Vietnam vets that has persisted for over three decades.

Neither I, nor any man I served with, ever committed any atrocity or war crime in Vietnam. The opposite was the truth. Rather than use excessive force, we suffered casualty after casualty because we chose to refrain from firing rather than risk injuring civilians. More than once, I saw friends die in areas we entered with loudspeakers rather than guns. John Kerry's accusations then and now were an injustice that struck at the soul of anyone who served there.

During my 1971 televised debate with John Kerry, I accused him of lying. I urged him to come forth with affidavits from the soldiers who had claimed to have committed or witnessed atrocities. To date no such affidavits have been filed. Recently, Sen. Kerry has attempted to reframe his comments as youthful or "over the top." Yet always there has been a calculated coolness to the way he has sought to destroy the record of our honorable service in the interest of promoting his political ambitions of the moment.

John Kennedy's book, "Profiles in Courage," and Dwight Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe" inspired generations. Not so John Kerry, who has suppressed his book, "The New Soldier," prohibiting its reprinting. There is a clear reason for this. The book repeats John Kerry's insults to the American military, beginning with its front-cover image of the American flag being carried upside down by a band of bearded renegades in uniform--a clear slap at the brave Marines in their combat gear who raised our flag at Iwo Jima. Allow me the reprint rights to your book, Sen. Kerry, and I will make sure copies of "The New Soldier" are available in bookstores throughout America.





Vietnam was a long time ago. Why does it matter today? Since the days of the Roman Empire, the concept of military loyalty up and down the chain of command has been indispensable. The commander's loyalty to the troops is the price a commander pays for the loyalty of the troops in return. How can a man be commander in chief who for over 30 years has accused his "Band of Brothers," as well as himself, of being war criminals? On a practical basis, John Kerry's breach of loyalty is a prescription of disaster for our armed forces.
John Kerry's recent admissions caused me to realize that I was most likely in Vietnam dodging enemy rockets on the very day he met in Paris with Madame Binh, the representative of the Viet Cong to the Paris Peace Conference. John Kerry returned to the U.S. to become a national spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a radical fringe of the antiwar movement, an organization set upon propagating the myth of war crimes through demonstrably false assertions. Who was the last American POW to die languishing in a North Vietnamese prison forced to listen to the recorded voice of John Kerry disgracing their service by his dishonest testimony before the Senate?





Since 1971, I have refused many offers from John Kerry's political opponents to speak out against him. My reluctance to become involved once again in politics is outweighed now by my profound conviction that John Kerry is simply not fit to be America's commander in chief. Nobody has recruited me to come forward. My decision is the inevitable result of my own personal beliefs and life experience.
Today, America is engaged in a new war, against the militant Islamist terrorists who attacked us on our own soil. Reasonable people may differ about how best to proceed, but I'm sure of one thing--John Kerry is the wrong man to put in charge.
Mr. O'Neill served in Coastal Division 11 in 1969-70, winning two Bronze Stars and additional decorations for his service in Vietnam

Kerry flaunts around the fact that he was in vietnam

wheres your info on this creed?

John Kerry - what a great Senator - 30% is the amount he voted in the senate lat year

So 70% of the time he didn't vote - Great Senator

Dude, thats about average attendence for senators. You never get them voting unless its a really important bill

1995: Proposed Bill Cutting $1.5 Billion From Intelligence Budget. Kerry
introduced a bill that would reduce the Intelligence budget by $300 million in
each of fiscal years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000. There were no
cosponsors of Kerrys bill, which never made it to the floor for a vote. (S.
1290, Introduced 9/29/95)

1995: Voted To Slash FBI Funding By $80 Million. (H.R. 2076, CQ Vote #480:
Adopted 49-41: R 9-40; D 40-1, 9/29/95, Kerry Voted Yea)

1994: Proposed Bill To Gut $1 Billion From Intelligence And Freeze Spending For
Two Major Intelligence Programs. Kerry proposed a bill cutting $1 billion from
the budgets of the National Foreign Intelligence Program and from Tactical
Intelligence, and freezing their budgets. The bill did not make it to a vote,
but the language was later submitted (and defeated see below) as S. Amdt. 1452
to H.R. 3759. (S. 1826, Introduced 2/3/94)

1997: Kerry Questioned Growth Of Intelligence Community After Cold War. Now
that that [Cold War] struggle is over, why is it that our vast intelligence
apparatus continues to grow even as Government resources for new and essential
priorities fall far short of what is necessary? (Senator John Kerry Agreeing
That Critic's Concerns Be Addressed, Congressional Record, 5/1/97, p. S3891)

When His Bill Stalled In Committee, Kerry Proposed $1 Billion Cut As
Amendment Instead. Kerry proposed cutting $1 billion from the National Foreign
Intelligence Program and Tactical Intelligence budgets, and freezing their
budgets. The amendment was defeated, with even Graham, Lieberman and Braun
voting against Kerry. (Amdt.. To H.R. 3759, CQ Vote #39: Rejected 20-75: R 3-37;
D 17-38, 2/10/94, Kerry Voted Yea; Graham, Lieberman And Braun Voted Nay)


After all the above, he has the nerve to say this, after 9/11

12 Days After 9/11: Kerry Questioned Quality Of Intelligence. And the tragedy
is, at the moment, that the single most important weapon for the United States
of America is intelligence. And we are weakest, frankly, in that particular
area. So its going to take us time to be able to build up here to do this
properly. (CBSs Face The Nation, 9/23/01)

SEN. KERRYS DEFENSE STRATEGY: CUT CRITICAL WEAPONS SYSTEMS

In 1996, Introduced Bill To Slash Defense Department Funding By $6.5 Billion.
Kerrys bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote. (S. 1580,
Introduced 2/29/96;
In 1995, Voted To Freeze Defense Spending For 7 Years, Slashing Over $34 Billion
From Defense. Only 27 other Senators voted with Kerry.

Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution Defense Freeze. Harkin, D-Iowa,
amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the
$34.8 billion in savings to education and job training. (S. Con. Res. 13, CQ
Vote #181: Rejected 28-71: R 2-51; D 26-20, 5/24/95, Kerry Voted Yea)

In 1993, Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:

Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews
Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one
! Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force
Terminate the Navys coastal mine-hunting ship program
Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces
in one year. (S.1163, Introduced 6/24/93,

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Defense Spending, Including:

In 1993, Voted Against Increased Defense Spending For Military Pay
Raise. Kerry voted to kill an increase in military pay over five years. (S. Con.
Res. 18, CQ Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 55-42: R 2-39; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry
Voted Yea)
In 1992, Voted To Cut $6 Billion From Defense. Republicans and Democrats
successfully blocked the attempt to cut defense spending. (S. Con. Res. 106, CQ
Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 53-40: R 38-1; D 15-39, 4/9/92, Kerry Voted Nay)
In 1991, Voted To Slash Over $3 Billion From Defense, Shift Money To
Social Programs. Only 27 Senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut.
(H.R. 2707, CQ Vote #! 182: Motion Rejected 28-69: R 3-39; D 25-30, 9/10/91, Kerry
Voted Yea)
In 1991, Voted To Cut Defense Spending By 2%. Only 21 other Senators
voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated. (S. Con. Res. 29, CQ Vote
#49: Motion Rejected 22-73: R 1-39; D 21-34, 4/25/91, Kerry Voted Yea)

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Or Eliminate Funding For B-2 Stealth Bomber. (H.R.
3072, CQ Vote #203: Rejected 29-71: R 2-43; D 27-28, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Yea;
H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #310: Rejected 29-68: R 3-41; D 26-27, 11/18/89, Kerry Voted
Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 43-56: R 8-36; D 35-20, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted
Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #209: Rejected 45-53: R 9-34; D 36-19, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted
Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #174: Rejected 42-57: R 7-36; D 35-21, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted
Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #206: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 36-7; D 15-41, 9/25/91,
Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92,
Kerry! Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #216: Rejected 45-53: R 8-35; D 37-18,
9/18/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2182, CQ Vote #179: Rejected 45-55: R 8-36; D
37-19, 7/1/94, Kerry Voted Yea)

Has Voted Repeatedly Against Missile Defense. (S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion
Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote
#173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ
Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S.
2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S.
3114, CQ Vote #182: Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S.
3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 10/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38! -17, 3/22/94, Kerry
Voted Yea; S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42,
8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5,
8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4,
6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D
35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34:
R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Rejected 59-41:
R 55-0; D 4-41; I 0-0, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #262:
Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S 1635, CQ Vote #157:
Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #178:
Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

KERRY OPPOSED WEAPONS CRITICAL TO RECENT MILITARY SUCCESSES

Running For Senate In 1984, Kerry Promised Massive Defense Cuts. Kerry in 1984
said he! would have voted to cancel the B-1 bomber, B-2 stealth bomber, AH-64
Apache helicopter, Patriot missile, the F-15, F-14A and F-14D jets, the AV-8B
Harrier jet, the Aegis air-defense cruiser, and the Trident missile system. He
also advocated reductions in many other systems, such as the M1 Abrams tank, the
Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and the F-16 jet. (Brian
C. Mooney, Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One, The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)

That is **** low - go find me a credible source saying that 30% is average

Kerry was in a meeting with an anti war group that was plotting to kill US Senators - back in his protesting days

The facts are these: From Nov. 12-15, 1971, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), an organization Kerry helped found and of which he was the principal spokesman, held a meeting in Kansas City. The principal topic of discussion at the meeting was a plan proposed by Scott Camil, a former Marine who now lives in Florida, to assassinate U.S. senators who supported the war in Vietnam.

Kerry told his biographer, Douglas Brinkley, that he did not attend the Kansas City meeting, and (through a campaign spokesman) repeated his denial after a story about the meeting appeared in the both JWR and the New York Sun. But Gerald Nicosia, who wrote a history of the VVAW, claims that Kerry played a prominent role in that debate, and has the minutes of the meeting and reports from FBI informants (obtained through the Freedom of Information Act) to prove it. In addition, JWR contributor Thomas Lipscomb, the New York Sun reporter, interviewed four eyewitnesses — including Camil — who attested to Kerry's presence.

I'm still voting for Kerry.

A question: Do you think being a war veteran is a good point for a president?

I'm just curious...

in america, it is

Originally posted by Mr. Beelzebub
I'm still voting for Kerry.

Agreed. Kerry could be Satan himself and I would vote for him over Bush.

Originally posted by Nuniathan
Agreed. Kerry could be Satan himself and I would vote for him over Bush.

There is no way Kerry is Satan himself. Satan is already in the whitehouse

Vote nader and If McCain was running I would vote for him. Then again I can't vote in american elections.

And Chris I don't know if posting all those bill that keery voted against count any more. Times change and Kerry should realise that it is a not to safe time for America. I don't think he would take money aways from the miltary now simply because it would be very unpopular.

First off, all of you are ****ing homo hippies.


Originally posted by Creed
in america, it is

and Creed. WTF. Do you like being considered an insignificunt because your country is? NO. so why stereo type all americans for thinking that being a war veteran is a good point for being a president? you really need to stop with this ****. you stereo type all americans for the actions that our decision makers make. personal attacks against americans in general. people are people. individuals. you're in canada, what the **** do you know? i bet you did'nt know about all those ****ing protestors out in los angeles opposing everything thats goes on in our country. we have 2 sides, the ones that agree and the ones that don't. i personally agree. i'm voting for bush. but don't generalize all americans, because if you did'nt notice, people as individuals are not all the same.

Originally posted by handjobs4dollars
Vote nader and If McCain was running I would vote for him. Then again I can't vote in american elections.

McCain wants to ban MMA. **** him!!!

Originally posted by Nuniathan
McCain wants to ban MMA. **** him!!!

He wanted to ban NHB. Now that there are rules and regulations in place, he has ended his jiahid

Originally posted by DOGGx0
First off, all of you are ****ing homo hippies.




and Creed. WTF. Do you like being considered an insignificunt because your country is? NO. so why stereo type all americans for thinking that being a war veteran is a good point for being a president? you really need to stop with this ****. you stereo type all americans for the actions that our decision makers make. personal attacks against americans in general. people are people. individuals. you're in canada, what the **** do you know? i bet you did'nt know about all those ****ing protestors out in los angeles opposing everything thats goes on in our country. we have 2 sides, the ones that agree and the ones that don't. i personally agree. i'm voting for bush. but don't generalize all americans, because if you did'nt notice, people as individuals are not all the same.

Dude, how am I generalizing americans by saying having a good war record in your past will help you politicaly? Its not a stereotype Adam. Look at a lot of your past presidents.

Hell, your first president was the leader of the first american army!!!!

Yeah but the army makes good leaders and that what the job is. Leading the entire country. If you can make choices with bullets going by your head, you should be able to when the pressure is on.

Kerry is a piece of **** - he flip flops on every ****ing issue -

As of late he said he will appoint a anti abortion judge which not too long ago he said he would never appoint a anti-abortion judge

this is the **** he does with every ****ing issue

Kerry is a piece of ****

A vote for Kerry is a vote for terrorism

The media is so far on the left it has ****ed up too many people - Kerry gets a ****ing pass on alot of ****

Originally posted by Creed
There is no way Kerry is Satan himself. Satan is already in the whitehouse

Satan is going to strike you dead for that comment. That's quite insuting, Satan is EXTREMELY intelligent, after all, he invented Microsoft Windows. If Bill Gates were president, we would have purachased every country by now and bankrupted those that are unfriendly to us. He'd rather rule the world from Seattle though.

talking about politicians is stupid. none of you people know these politicians, neither does 99.99% of anyone either. yet we seem to have no problem drawing a 100% crystal clear analysis on all of them which are based on nothing but bull**** from various media outlets that you all chose to either accept or ignore.

man, who ****ing cares if a politician snorted coke in his past or recieved a special award. the bottom line is that you, PERSONALLY, will have absolutely no control over who gets elected and no control over the policies that either change or remain the same, and have no accurate assessment on the sincerity of anyone in the public eye that you don't personnally know.

Originally posted by Purity
talking about politicians is stupid. none of you people know these politicians, neither does 99.99% of anyone either. yet we seem to have no problem drawing a 100% crystal clear analysis on all of them which are based on nothing but bull**** from various media outlets that you all chose to either accept or ignore.

man, who ****ing cares if a politician snorted coke in his past or recieved a special award. the bottom line is that you, PERSONALLY, will have absolutely no control over who gets elected and no control over the policies that either change or remain the same, and have no accurate assessment on the sincerity of anyone in the public eye that you don't personnally know.

Exactly. Dammit, stop saying **** that I agree with.

who is that in yer av?

Ryan Gracie. You need to visit the MMA forum more often.

yeah i know. i've been outta the whole scene for awhile now.

Jump back in this weekend. Bushido is looking good.

I thought it was Adam LOL

No.

well, the double middle finger is confusing

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_pilot_button.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA