View Full Version : Charley Burley


Southpaw16BF
04-19-2009, 09:06 PM
Here is the only footage of Charley Burley that exists. In this footage Burley is past his prime, he is taking on Oakland Billy Smith(30-12-3) who he has already defeated. After this Burley would have 10 more fight's winning 9 of them and losing 1. Before hanging up the gloves in 1950.

Who knows how good Charley Burley could of been if given the chance, but it's very sad as he was never given this chance due to the colour of his skin.

Date-April 4th 1946
Location-Auditorium, Oakland, California, USA
Referee: Toby Irwin

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AztecWanker
04-19-2009, 09:08 PM
So is SRR ducking Burley a boxing myth, or is there some truth to it?

Southpaw16BF
04-19-2009, 09:13 PM
So is SRR ducking Burley a boxing myth, or is there some truth to it?

There is indeed truth in it. Some say Robinson avoided a showdown with Burley in 1940's. But Robinson wasn't on his own in avoding a showdown with Burley. Billy Conn's(Team), Jake Lamotta, and Tony Zale were also all of belived to of ducked Burley.

As the saying goes ''Charley Burley was to good for his own good''

TheGreatA
04-19-2009, 09:16 PM
So is SRR ducking Burley a boxing myth, or is there some truth to it?

Well, the truth is that Burley was a ranked middleweight while Robinson was a young welterweight. Burley was already in decline when Robinson became the welterweight champion and only fought occasionally after 1946.

Robinson did get an offer to fight Burley although I'm not sure at what point of their careers that offer was made. Robinson supposedly didn't think Burley was enough of a crowd-pleaser to make the fight worthwhile, or something to that effect. Maybe he didn't fancy Burley's patient counter punching style.

GJC
04-19-2009, 09:19 PM
Well, the truth is that Burley was a ranked middleweight while Robinson was a young welterweight. Burley was already in decline when Robinson became the welterweight champion and only fought occasionally after 1946.

Robinson did get an offer to fight Burley although I'm not sure at what point of their careers that offer was made. Robinson supposedly didn't think Burley was enough of a crowd-pleaser to make the fight worthwhile, or something to that effect. Maybe he didn't fancy Burley's patient counter punching style.
You certainly wouldn't fight Burley unless you were going to get a decent payday.

Southpaw16BF
04-19-2009, 09:19 PM
Well, the truth is that Burley was a ranked middleweight while Robinson was a young welterweight. Burley was already in decline when Robinson became the welterweight champion and only fought occasionally after 1946.

Robinson did get an offer to fight Burley although I'm not sure at what point of their careers that offer was made. Robinson supposedly didn't think Burley was enough of a crowd-pleaser to make the fight worthwhile, or something to that effect. Maybe he didn't fancy Burley's patient counter punching style.

Indeed Robinson thought the two would make a Dull Fight. And thus wasn't interested.

AztecWanker
04-19-2009, 09:20 PM
Well, the truth is that Burley was a ranked middleweight while Robinson was a young welterweight. Burley was already in decline when Robinson became the welterweight champion and only fought occasionally after 1946.

Robinson did get an offer to fight Burley although I'm not sure at what point of their careers that offer was made. Robinson supposedly didn't think Burley was enough of a crowd-pleaser to make the fight worthwhile, or something to that effect. Maybe he didn't fancy Burley's patient counter punching style.

:lol1: Robinson was on some Floyd "step your PPV game up" ****.

Thread Stealer
04-19-2009, 09:45 PM
Local promoters in Minnesota tried to hype a fight between the two and put them on the same card. Robinson beat Dick Banner and Burley beat George Wilson, both of them in impressive early KO fashion.

Then Robinson suddenly doubled his previous demand of $25,000 to $50,000.

He declared that he was "too pretty to fight Burley".

Interestingly, Burley himself never really blamed Robinson, and said he would've likely done the same thing. It's discussed in the book "Charley Burley and the Black Murderers Row".

"Ray ducked me. George Gainford (Ray's manager) admitted that much. But, I can't say I blame him. There wasn't no money in us fighting each other. All we would have done is knock each other off."

"You know, to me the most remarkable thing about Ray's career is that he didn't even get a shot at the welterweight title til he was 26- or the middleweight title til' he was 30! You think he was the greatest? What do you think he'd a been if he'd gotten his chances when he deserved them? You wanna know the truth? If I coulda' got my shot, I wouldn't have risked it fighting someone like Ray."

Southpaw16BF
04-19-2009, 10:22 PM
Local promoters in Minnesota tried to hype a fight between the two and put them on the same card. Robinson beat Dick Banner and Burley beat George Wilson, both of them in impressive early KO fashion.

Then Robinson suddenly doubled his previous demand of $25,000 to $50,000.

He declared that he was "too pretty to fight Burley".

Interestingly, Burley himself never really blamed Robinson, and said he would've likely done the same thing. It's discussed in the book "Charley Burley and the Black Murderers Row".

"Ray ducked me. George Gainford (Ray's manager) admitted that much. But, I can't say I blame him. There wasn't no money in us fighting each other. All we would have done is knock each other off."

"You know, to me the most remarkable thing about Ray's career is that he didn't even get a shot at the welterweight title til he was 26- or the middleweight title til' he was 30! You think he was the greatest? What do you think he'd a been if he'd gotten his chances when he deserved them? You wanna know the truth? If I coulda' got my shot, I wouldn't have risked it fighting someone like Ray."


Ray Robinson at times could be a promoters worst nighmare to negotiate with, and would always make demands etc to better his part of the deal. And at times they were ridiculous ones.

Him and Marcel Cerdan were due to meet until Robinson priced himself out the showdown also.

warp1432
04-19-2009, 10:29 PM
Burley is my favorite old time fighter from that era. Wish their was more footage of him, he was brilliant.

RightCross94
04-19-2009, 10:54 PM
you say burley was denied a title shot because he was black, but there were many other black champions in this era, why was burley singled out?

JAB5239
04-20-2009, 12:47 AM
you say burley was denied a title shot because he was black, but there were many other black champions in this era, why was burley singled out?

I don't think Burley was specificly shut out because he was black, but more so because he didn't have the right connections. I just bought the book "Charley Burley and the black murderers row" so Im sure I'll find more information on this when I read it.

sugarshanenas
04-20-2009, 01:47 AM
There is indeed truth in it. Some say Robinson avoided a showdown with Burley in 1940's. But Robinson wasn't on his own in avoding a showdown with Burley. Billy Conn's(Team), Jake Lamotta, and Tony Zale were also all of belived to of ducked Burley.

As the saying goes ''Charley Burley was to good for his own good''

"What do I need Burley for when I have Zivic? - LaMotta
Plus why would LaMotta be afraid of Burley if he also fought Holman Williams,Lloyd Marshall, and Bert Lytell....

Thread Stealer
04-20-2009, 02:15 AM
you say burley was denied a title shot because he was black, but there were many other black champions in this era, why was burley singled out?

He wasn't necessarily singled out. Some top black fighters never got title shots, some got title shots after waiting a long time.

It took forever for Archie Moore to get one, it took a move to heavyweight for Ezzard Charles to get one, took Ray Robinson pretty long to get one.

While others like Burley, Holman Williams, Eddie Booker, Lloyd Marshall, and Jimmy Bivins never did, although the last two fought for the "Duration" title, which I believe is "hold this belt until the champ gets back from World War 2"

black.ink
04-20-2009, 04:09 AM
Burley is my favorite old time fighter from that era. Wish their was more footage of him, he was brilliant.

Why is he your favourite old-time fighter if there is hardly no footage of him? Surely you base your favourite fighters with what you see with your eyes?

Southpaw16BF
04-20-2009, 06:38 AM
you say burley was denied a title shot because he was black, but there were many other black champions in this era, why was burley singled out?

There were many others black fighters who gained title shots but not ''All'' Burley wasn't on his own, Holman Williams never recieved a shot at the title, Jimmy Bivins never recieved a legit shot at the title, Lloyd Marshall was never a granted a chance to fight for a world title, and lots others.

Ezzard Charles could never fight for the Light Heavyweight Title, do he is considered the best LHW of all time.

Archie Moore didn't fight for the LHW crown until 36 years of age, and was denied chances to fight for titles years.
When he won his title, he didn't wanted to be lifted up etc as he said this should of happened 12 years ago.

But like anything you did get exceptions, as yes some black fighters got there chance and sadly other great fighters never.

warp1432
04-20-2009, 04:15 PM
Why is he your favourite old-time fighter if there is hardly no footage of him? Surely you base your favourite fighters with what you see with your eyes?

Based off the 20 minute footage of him, you get a great sense of his style and I just loved the way he fought. Much more so then Robinson, even though I love watching him fight too.

There may not be much footage, but he really impresses me.

cotto16
04-20-2009, 04:36 PM
Based off the 20 minute footage of him, you get a great sense of his style and I just loved the way he fought. Much more so then Robinson, even though I love watching him fight too.

There may not be much footage, but he really impresses me.

There vey little footage of stanley ketchel, and he is alo one of my favouite fighters

GJC
04-25-2009, 09:30 AM
Don't think La Motta ducked Burley, not saying he would beat him but I can't see that he ducked him. Think the colour thing had a bit to do with it obviously but don't forget La Motta pretty much had the same problems getting a title shot. Some fighters just get avoided. Maybe the fight was in neither's interests re progressing their careers?
Zale was the champion in an era with a lot of strong middleweights . He put the title on ice for the war plus I don't think he fought the quality of opponents he could given the era.