View Full Version : Remebering Tyson


Jesse Pinkman
04-16-2009, 11:39 PM
And not forgetting that for many of us he brought us into the sport.



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MANGLER
04-16-2009, 11:42 PM
Tyson's my all time favorite fighter. Dude was the one who got me into boxing. Baddest mofo on the planet.

Russian Express
04-17-2009, 07:02 AM
I think Tyson is probably the number one boxer for converting people to the sport. He got me and most of my boxing friends into the game.

A unique character.

res
04-17-2009, 07:49 AM
I think Tyson is probably the number one boxer for converting people to the sport.

.


From a historical standpoint I guess you would have to say Dempsey is.


Ali is up there too, but due to the population explosion that came afterward Tyson beats him.

J.Dempsey
04-17-2009, 08:20 AM
tyson was unbelievable, i can't think of another heavy weight with that much speed, power and ferocity..unfortunately his mind was weak (IMO)

The Iron Man
04-17-2009, 09:39 AM
For the current generation tyson brought more people to the sport than any other. But i rekon Ali brought more people to the sport than Tyson.

Still amazing fighter and probably the most entertaining fighter ever!

Squabbles94806
04-17-2009, 10:48 AM
And not forgetting that for many of us he brought us into the sport.



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Cheers to that.

PLATE
04-17-2009, 01:59 PM
Tyson definitely attracted a lot of casual fans to the sport, but whether they hung around after his deterioration is difficult to say.

Obviously some of you did.

Knighte
04-17-2009, 07:53 PM
Here my memories of that douche:

http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0430/box_a_douglas_tyson_300.jpg

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1118/box_g_tyson_holyfield_600.jpg

http://www.hotdog.hu/_data/members2/694/915694/images/egyeb_fotok/Lennox-Lewis-Tyson.jpg

http://www.washingtoninformer.com/wk%20of%20June%2013/A1-Tyson%20TKO%20Defeat%206-16-05.JPG

Ziggy Stardust
04-17-2009, 09:01 PM
Unfortunately Tyson is not likely to be remembered for anything he did in the ring but rather by the demented fan-bois who persistantly tug on his nut-sack to this day.

Poet

Southpaw16BF
04-17-2009, 09:07 PM
No dout Tyson was a special talent. And in his prime was a Brillant fighter. But some people will always overrate him, and boast about him to much and say how he would of destroyed any fighter in his prime etc, and how he was unbeatable. It will never stop.

Ziggy Stardust
04-17-2009, 09:35 PM
This is just to piss the nuthuggers off:


http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0430/box_a_douglas_tyson_300.jpg

PLEASE DADDY! I'LL BE A GOOD BOY!


http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1118/box_g_tyson_holyfield_600.jpg

PLEASE MR. HOLYFIELD, DON'T HURT ME NO MORE!


http://www.hotdog.hu/_data/members2/694/915694/images/egyeb_fotok/Lennox-Lewis-Tyson.jpg

YES MR. LEWIS, YOU ARE MY DADDY!


http://www.washingtoninformer.com/wk%20of%20June%2013/A1-Tyson%20TKO%20Defeat%206-16-05.JPG

HERE MR. MCBRIDE, TAKE MY LUNCH MONEY!

Poet

Russian Express
04-17-2009, 09:42 PM
Unfortunately Tyson is not likely to be remembered for anything he did in the ring but rather by the demented fan-bois who persistantly tug on his nut-sack to this day.

Poet

How are you going to be remembered? As some 40 year old white guy with a receding hair line .... reciting lame poetry over youtube.

Knighte your a plebian.

Ziggy Stardust
04-17-2009, 09:45 PM
How are you going to be remembered? As some 40 year old white guy with a receding hair line .... reciting lame poetry over youtube.

Knighte your a plebian.

Squeeze 'em a little bit harder fan-boi and you just might milk some Tyson juice out of those lemons :rofl:

Poet

Russian Express
04-17-2009, 09:52 PM
Squeeze 'em a little bit harder fan-boi and you just might milk some Tyson juice out of those lemons :rofl:

Poet

40 years old, and still spouting that playground garbage. I feel embarassed for you.

Ziggy Stardust
04-17-2009, 09:59 PM
40 years old, and still spouting that playground garbage. I feel embarassed for you.

And you're HOW old and still swinging on some athlete's nut-sack like a wide-eyed 10 year old?

Poet

mickey malone
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
He was the best I've ever seen for about 3 years & then it all went wrong...
Without doubt, the most comical boxer of his generation (his quotes lol)

Abstraction
04-18-2009, 01:15 AM
wow poet, are you 40 or 7?

-Swizzy-
04-18-2009, 01:47 AM
And not forgetting that for many of us he brought us into the sport.



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December 16, 1995 was when I officially became a boxing fan. That was the date of the Tyson vs Buster Mathis fight. Luckily I was at my cousin's house that day and he was a huge boxing fan and ordered the ppv.

Just seeing Tyson walking to the ring looking all intimidating was enough for me to feel like this guy was something special. He had this aura about him where you just knew that he was a force of nature. The KO of Mathis just confirmed that this sport was exciting and that I shouldn't be missing out on major boxing events any longer.

I had to convince my parents to order the big fights at the beginning but when I got old enough to work, I ordered as many boxing matches as I could. And now I basically don't miss a single major boxing ppv ever.

If it weren't for Tyson I don't know if I would be a boxing fan today. I am forever grateful to Tyson and my cousin for introducing me to this great sport.

JAB5239
04-18-2009, 04:17 AM
From a historical standpoint I guess you would have to say Dempsey is.


Ali is up there too, but due to the population explosion that came afterward Tyson beats him.

For me, Ali's popularity is unparelled. To this day he still recoginizable the world over and fighters are still trying to copy his style and personality.

Dempsey brought boxing to the masses but was more an American phenom than worldwide.

Tyson was a shooting star. His flame burnt bright, but it faded and is only a flicker compared to Ali, in my humble opinion.

Joe Louis' popularity was incredible as well, and for many years. But compared to Ali.....there is no comparison.

King Koko
04-18-2009, 04:32 AM
Tyson did get me into the sport in the late 80's he was a machine. You watch the old Tyson Highlights and you realize how far the heavyweight division has fallen. Fat out of shape boxers, horribly boring Klitschko fights...
As for people who question Tyson's legacy things would have been a lot different if Hollyfield and Lewis had fought Mike in his prime. Find me a single twenty year old who can become world champion and dominate the heavyweight division, any division for that matter the way Mike Tyson did it!

JAB5239
04-18-2009, 04:51 AM
Tyson did get me into the sport in the late 80's he was a machine. You watch the old Tyson Highlights and you realize how far the heavyweight division has fallen. Fat out of shape boxers, horribly boring Klitschko fights...
As for people who question Tyson's legacy things would have been a lot different if Hollyfield and Lewis had fought Mike in his prime. Find me a single twenty year old who can become world champion and dominate the heavyweight division, any division for that matter the way Mike Tyson did it!

Tyson was a conduit for many fans young and old, and rightly so. He was excitement personified. But look how far the heavyweight division had fallen from Tysons prime years and the 70's. Todays heavies are God awful, but the division has historicly had its ups and downs.

Age means little in my opinion. Tyson was a beast at 20 and getting beat up by Buster Douglas by 23. His skills had eroded horribly. There were many, many young fighters to be dominant at a young age and excell for years. Longevity is a major factor in greatnes, in my opinion. Tyson was great, but there were many fighters who were greater, for longer and just as dominant if not as exciting.

Oh what could have been!

Jesse Pinkman
04-22-2009, 02:44 AM
Tyson is the greatest, if you do not agree.....you are a whore.

JmtRyan
04-22-2009, 01:00 PM
Mike tyson is a real life Jake 'de' Muss

Ziggy Stardust
04-22-2009, 01:47 PM
Tyson is the greatest, if you do not agree.....you are a whore.

That post reeks "mental lightweight".

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
04-22-2009, 01:58 PM
Before this turns into yet another soapbox for Tyson nuthuggers to slobber over their god, here's a friendly reminder:

http://jr3134.k12.sd.us/Year/buster-douglas-mike-tyson-knockout.jpg
Who's Your Daddy?! :owned:

Poet

Smokin'J
04-22-2009, 02:16 PM
Can't one say ''he was a good fighter'' without being called a nuthugger?

Ziggy Stardust
04-22-2009, 02:29 PM
Can't one say ''he was a good fighter'' without being called a nuthugger?

Not at all. I say he's a good fighter and I currently have him ranked 10th all-time. What makes someone a nuthugger is when they start proclaiming Tyson the "best ever" or "unbeatable in his prime" and make post saying how he'd clean up the Heavyweight ATG list like they're all Pinklon Thomas fresh out of rehab.

PLATE
04-22-2009, 06:24 PM
This is just to piss the nuthuggers off:


PLEASE DADDY! I'LL BE A GOOD BOY!


PLEASE MR. HOLYFIELD, DON'T HURT ME NO MORE!


YES MR. LEWIS, YOU ARE MY DADDY!


HERE MR. MCBRIDE, TAKE MY LUNCH MONEY!

Poet






ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

Andre Wardttke
04-22-2009, 06:49 PM
No dout Tyson was a special talent. And in his prime was a Brillant fighter. But some people will always overrate him, and boast about him to much and say how he would of destroyed any fighter in his prime etc, and how he was unbeatable. It will never stop.

Because it's true.

Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion at 21 years of age.

It speaks for itself.

Ziggy Stardust
04-22-2009, 06:56 PM
Because it's true.

Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion at 21 years of age.

It speaks for itself.

In that case Wilfred Benitez must be the greatest EVER p4p cuz he won his first world title at age 17: Over an ATG no less, Antonio Cervantes, while Tyson was winning HIS first title at 21 over one of the least deserving belt holders in Trevor Berbick.

Poet

Andre Wardttke
04-22-2009, 07:28 PM
What did you do at age 21? Were you knocking out fully fledged professional heavyweight boxers? Banking millions of pounds becoming a international superstar?


I didn't think so.

It wasn't just the fact Tyson did those things, but he did it with ease, no one could touch him, he was exciting, from the opening bell he was rabid and went at his opponents.

We evidently have differing opinions on what classes as a great and successful boxer. Let's just agree to disagree.

Ziggy Stardust
04-22-2009, 07:42 PM
What did you do at age 21? Were you knocking out fully fledged professional heavyweight boxers? Banking millions of pounds becoming a international superstar?


I didn't think so.

It wasn't just the fact Tyson did those things, but he did it with ease, no one could touch him, he was exciting, from the opening bell he was rabid and went at his opponents.

We evidently have differing opinions on what classes as a great and successful boxer. Let's just agree to disagree.

Well, since you're neither Benitez OR Tyson you're hardly in any position to talk. More to the point, you completely dodged the point I made regarding Benitez winning HID first title at 17 over an ATG. BTW? What did YOU do at 17? Drop out of high school and smoke dope on the street corner?

Poet

PLATE
04-22-2009, 10:59 PM
Because it's true.




Dude how can you utter those words with a straight face? He was beaten like a red headed stepchild by good and bad fighters alike. If you ask me it was damn generous of poet to rank him even tenth.

Abstraction
04-22-2009, 11:49 PM
Poet, don't take this the wrong way, but do you not have anything else better to do?

You're on this place 24/7. Seriously mate, you say you are 40, are you even employed?

Stop acting like a bitter old redneck

AFTER HOURS
04-22-2009, 11:58 PM
1 of my fav in 90's

Ziggy Stardust
04-23-2009, 12:32 AM
Poet, don't take this the wrong way, but do you not have anything else better to do?

You're on this place 24/7. Seriously mate, you say you are 40, are you even employed?

Stop acting like a bitter old redneck

Sorry, but boxing is one of my passions: I've been following the sport keenly since the early 70s and can't forsee boring of it anytime soon. I would hazard to say I'm on this sight significantly less then some of those members who've been on here less than a year yet somehow have twice as many posts as I do.

Bitter old redneck? Huh? How do you arrive at that? I may be caustic with the morons and have little tolerence for nuthuggers so maybe you read that as bitter; but redneck? What, pray tell, is THAT supposed to mean? Is that some sort of racial inference? If it is then please tell the Klit-Lickers! They all think I hate white fighters (erroneously, as I couldn't care less what the ethnic background of a fighter is). Do explain!

Poet

-Blackout-
04-23-2009, 03:52 AM
And not forgetting that for many of us he brought us into the sport.



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Hey homie, great tribute!

Tyson is also one of my all time favourite fighter.. He brought the world closer to boxing.. The man was a beast, Heavyweight champion before he was even allowed to drink..

TheGreatA
04-23-2009, 04:17 AM
Because it's true.

Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion at 21 years of age.

It speaks for itself.

Floyd Patterson was unbeatable.

Uturn
04-23-2009, 06:52 AM
Tyson was the ultimate in his prime. Nuff respect to Mike, to bad he went off the ropes though could of been the greatest heavyweight of all time. Mike would of owned most HW's in his prime no doubt about it the guy was a monsterr in the ring

GJC
04-23-2009, 12:42 PM
Floyd Patterson was unbeatable.
Saw that and had to read backwards!

PLATE
04-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Floyd Patterson was unbeatable.

Yep. Must have been past his prime in the Liston fights. Or else had personal problems.

GJC
04-25-2009, 12:06 PM
I enjoyed watching Tyson, he was a good fighter and certainly exciting. He unified the division and deserves credit for that. He had a short peak and his out of the ring problems added to that. He certainly bought a lot of people into the sport which is always a good thing. I do remember though a lot of people who had no interest in boxing previously, now telling me that Tyson would beat any HW ever. I just smiled and waited. The one thing when you follow a sport for a long time is that what goes around comes around. I think he wasn't as bad as some say or as good as others say, if that makes sense?
I would say to Tyson fans though by all means stay a fan, I will always rate Marciano because he was the HW champion I grew up with. Louis was in decline by the time I was interested in boxing.
So be a fan but not blind to other fighters past, present and future. You will enjoy the sport far more if you open up a bit. Its a great sport with a lot of history and lots of styles to enjoy.

Jesse Pinkman
04-28-2009, 01:13 AM
my sweetest friend....



http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040412/040412_mikeTyson_vsmall_4p.widec.jpg

▀ringer
04-28-2009, 01:31 AM
Tyson was a good fighter, nothing more, nothing less.

I can't take anybody who places him in the top 10 Heavyweights of All Time seriously.

Top 15? Sure. But top 10? With guys like Ali, Louis, Johnson, Lewis, Holyfield, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Dempsey, Marciano, Patterson, Langford, Tunney, and others to look at?

No.

Jesse Pinkman
04-28-2009, 01:55 AM
Tyson was a good fighter, nothing more, nothing less.

I can't take anybody who places him in the top 10 Heavyweights of All Time seriously.

Top 15? Sure. But top 10? With guys like Ali, Louis, Johnson, Lewis, Holyfield, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Dempsey, Marciano, Patterson, Langford, Tunney, and others to look at?

No.



They just dont bring the rage,hate,rebellion, and energy Tyson did.

elfag
04-28-2009, 02:33 AM
he isnt on my top favorite lists as a fighter, probably cause i get annoyed by so many overrating him

but as far as his story and everything the guy is very interesting and i absolutely loved the last documentary that is out on him now. His impact on the sport cant be denied. Kind of a shame when you thing what he could have been if he had more focus and mental stability.

▀ringer
04-28-2009, 03:17 AM
They just dont bring the rage,hate,rebellion, and energy Tyson did.

No, they don't.

But they also don't bring the rape conviction, messy public life, assault charges, embarassing ear biting incident, facial tattoo, insanely stupid media quotes, etc....

They also bring better records of competition.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 09:52 AM
They just dont bring the rage,hate,rebellion, and energy Tyson did.

Energy if one thing; rage, hate, and rebellion are hardly traits to be admired.....and dubious assets in the ring in anycase.

Poet

GJC
04-28-2009, 10:16 AM
They just dont bring the rage,hate,rebellion, and energy Tyson did.
Rebellion as in not fighting in a war you don't feel is just or having relations with the woman you want to regardless of colour. Or rebellion as in rape and assault?
Engergy for 4 rounds, watch Marciano or Frazier in the 12 to 15th rounds of fights.
Rage and hate, if you wish to see ferocity Dempsey v Willard and Louis v Schmelling 2 are worth a visit.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Rebellion as in not fighting in a war you don't feel is just or having relations with the woman you want to regardless of colour. Or rebellion as in rape and assault?
Engergy for 4 rounds, watch Marciano or Frazier in the 12 to 15th rounds of fights.
Rage and hate, if you wish to see ferocity Dempsey v Willard and Louis v Schmelling 2 are worth a visit.

They just aren't traits I can imagine any right thinking person would find admirable. I mean, I realize we all have them to one degree or another but that's the darker side of human nature. The traits we traditionally admire are those that reflect the "better angels" of our character.

Poet

GJC
04-28-2009, 01:45 PM
They just aren't traits I can imagine any right thinking person would find admirable. I mean, I realize we all have them to one degree or another but that's the darker side of human nature. The traits we traditionally admire are those that reflect the "better angels" of our character.

Poet
The chip and charge fighters don't usually make for a long career and whilst he had his out of ring problems I always felt it was a matter of time before a cool calm fighter used his reach advantage and a decent jab to beat Tyson. I was suprised that it was Douglas who was the 1st I had my money on Holyfield when he moved up and got used to the weight.

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 01:45 PM
They just aren't traits I can imagine any right thinking person would find admirable. I mean, I realize we all have them to one degree or another but that's the darker side of human nature. The traits we traditionally admire are those that reflect the "better angels" of our character.

Poet
LMFAOOOOOOOO

traits that reflect Poet's better angels


And I'm sure you were there measuring Mike Tyson's dick with a measuring tape.....and discoving it was only two inches long. Poor two inch Iron Prison *****.

I'm going to peg you for the Tyson **** sucker that you are.

You just run your cum dumpster and do my work for me.


As for me, my issue isn't with Tyson it's with nuthuggers: AKA fanboys, anus suckers, mind-numbed robots, true believers, and my favorite: KoolAid drinkers. Which one do you prefer because they all apply to you!

You see, I watch boxing with my brain not my emotions.....unlike you who watches boxing with your dick.

A KoolAid drinking fan-boy who thinks not with his head but with his genitalia

Do you play with your action figure with kung-fu grip everyday after school?

You can suck on Tyson's rectum all you want PPs.
You seem aweful hung up on size. Are you overcompensating in some way for physical deficiancies you may have? You would deparately running around in search of your first lay :owned:

Unlike Tyson I've never done time, but I'm sure if you asked Michael he'd tell you about the time he was traded for a pack of Newports. Hmmm, sounds like you and Mike have a LOT in common.....

I really can't be arsed to give anal leeches the time of day

Poet really needs to stay out of Tyson threads. He doesnt bring anything positive, if he hates the fighter so much then he should just stay out. But he uses that as an excuse so he can flame tyson fans and act like a hard e-man.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 01:49 PM
The chip and charge fighters don't usually make for a long career and whilst he had his out of ring problems I always felt it was a matter of time before a cool calm fighter used his reach advantage and a decent jab to beat Tyson. I was suprised that it was Douglas who was the 1st I had my money on Holyfield when he moved up and got used to the weight.

I've always liked Holyfield's attitude: "I don't have to hate you to beat you."

Poet

GJC
04-28-2009, 01:54 PM
Poet really needs to stay out of Tyson threads. He doesnt bring anything positive, if he hates the fighter so much then he should just stay out. But he uses that as an excuse so he can flame tyson fans and act like a hard e-man.

Think it is more a case that he is trying to balance some of the OTT adulation Tyson gets. As I said earlier Tyson is neither as good as reputed or as bad as reputed somewhere middling which is where he will be placed in historical HW ATG lists when people take a step back and judge soberly. Poet probably overshoots with the criticism but it is balanced by the OTT hero worship others give Tyson. Somewhere in the middle is fair.

GJC
04-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Have to say that I always score dignity high in the lists of qualities I like to see in a champion. Not a fan of the trash talking, you have 12 rounds to prove a point.

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 02:05 PM
Think it is more a case that he is trying to balance some of the OTT adulation Tyson gets. As I said earlier Tyson is neither as good as reputed or as bad as reputed somewhere middling which is where he will be placed in historical HW ATG lists when people take a step back and judge soberly. Poet probably overshoots with the criticism but it is balanced by the OTT hero worship others give Tyson. Somewhere in the middle is fair.If only that was true in Poet's case. Unfourtanetly Poet's victims include even the most sensible fans, he just cant refrain himself from going low, always been his style.

Like in one thread he came in with his spam attacking everyone and anyone who said that Tyson was the reason they started watching boxing in the early days. His blood pressure balooned and homosexual insults were thrown left and right. I remember being with him on a different site where he would randomly make a new tyson hate thread every 2 weeks or so, criticising everything from Mike's opposition to the size of shorts he was wearing lol utterly ridicilous.

Id rather have Tyson overated, then be underated by idiots like Poet who give him no credit whatsoever. The funny thing is that he's probably the biggest nuthugger of Joe Louis and overates his man to the max. He's got no problem with Louis winning a title from Jim Braddock, who had 25 losses and won his title from the biggest clown in boxing. Poet convenietly leaves that out, but he makes it a point to mention that Tyson won his title from Berbick 'the most undeserving champion of all' acording to him.

But because guys like Braddock and Tony 'the bum' Galento managed to floor Louis they are Gods in Poet's eyes.

What a pathetic joke that guy is.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Think it is more a case that he is trying to balance some of the OTT adulation Tyson gets. As I said earlier Tyson is neither as good as reputed or as bad as reputed somewhere middling which is where he will be placed in historical HW ATG lists when people take a step back and judge soberly. Poet probably overshoots with the criticism but it is balanced by the OTT hero worship others give Tyson. Somewhere in the middle is fair.

Thank you for quoating that: As I have him on ignore I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. Apparently he's under the seriously mistaken impression that threads about a fighter are for slavish devotees. This is boxing forum, not a fan site. If he wishes to see a never ending stream of adulation I'm sure he can find numerous Tyson fan-sites on the net where he can rub noses with like-minded syncophants.

Now, as to whether I hate Tyson you should ask Iron Man about that: He's a Tyson fan who's NOT a nuthugger and can tell you that in serious discussions (as opposed to threads where I'm pissing of nuthuggers) I have always been fair to Tyson. Now I have little tolerance for his ignorant fan base, but that's a different issue. I've said this many times: Of all the living fighters and former fighters the one that I'd like to sit down over a cup of coffee and analyse old fight film with is Mike Tyson. He is the one fighter who truly admires and respects the past greats and is a top-notch analyst of fights. I've also said many times that I find it truly ironic that a fighter like Tyson, who DOES admire and respect the past greats, also has the fan base that admires and respects the past greats the least. I think if Tyson ever sat down and talked boxing with some of his rabid groupies he'd be appalled at the lack of respect they have toward the fighters he himself admires and would no doubt end up viewing his own fans with contempt.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 02:18 PM
Think it is more a case that he is trying to balance some of the OTT adulation Tyson gets. As I said earlier Tyson is neither as good as reputed or as bad as reputed somewhere middling which is where he will be placed in historical HW ATG lists when people take a step back and judge soberly. Poet probably overshoots with the criticism but it is balanced by the OTT hero worship others give Tyson. Somewhere in the middle is fair.

Oh, and just to clue you in on "Boogie Knights": He's made it his life's mission to try and discredit Joe Louis. Much in the same way LRR tries to (and fails) to discredit Muhammed Ali. Any screaming he does about someone "hating" a fighter is a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Poet

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 02:21 PM
Thank you for quoating that: As I have him on ignore I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. Apparently he's under the seriously mistaken impression that threads about a fighter are for slavish devotees. This is boxing forum, not a fan site. If he wishes to see a never ending stream of adulation I'm sure he can find numerous Tyson fan-sites on the net where he can rub noses with like-minded syncophants.

Now, as to whether I hate Tyson you should ask Iron Man about that: He's a Tyson fan who's NOT a nuthugger and can tell you that in serious discussions (as opposed to threads where I'm pissing of nuthuggers) I have always been fair to Tyson. Now I have little tolerance for his ignorant fan base, but that's a different issue. I've said this many times: Of all the living fighters and former fighters the one that I'd like to sit down over a cup of coffee and analyse old fight film with is Mike Tyson. He is the one fighter who truly admires and respects the past greats and is a top-notch analyst of fights. I've also said many times that I find it truly ironic that a fighter like Tyson, who DOES admire and respect the past greats, also has the fan base that admires and respects the past greats the least. I think if Tyson ever sat down and talked boxing with some of his rabid groupies he'd be appalled at the lack of respect they have toward the fighters he himself admires and would no doubt end up viewing his own fans with contempt.

Poetidiot likes to suck up too as well as twist his story. Well, well, well i think it's our friend Poet who is under the seriously mistaken impression that im a nuthugger. Sad man he is.

Really how it started with me and him was when I called him out to answer me with facts when he cooked up a story that Tyson was ducking Tony Tucker who dissapeared for 2 years after that fight and came 30 pounds above his normal weight for his next fight.

He also dismissed tyson's 1st round victories over Carl Williams and Alex stewart as nothing more as wins over scared bums. Those same bums that went the distance with Holmes (Williams) and Holyfield, Foreman (Stewart)

When i wouldnt bend down to him like everybody does and called him out, Poet didnt like nobody talking back at him. After all when Poet has spoken, it's final and no poster here dare say anything or go againt his opinion.

Poet's style of dealing with someone who goes against his opinion

1) You're a cum drinking, anal itching, dick sucking, kool aid drinking cum dumping **** sucker
2) Im the smartest poster on this site, everybody else is a ****ing idiot how dare these kool aid drinking boys say anything. Im God on these forums
3) Put everyone who disagrees with him on ignore

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 02:23 PM
Oh, and just to clue you in on "Boogie Knights": He's made it his life's mission to try and discredit Joe Louis. Much in the same way LRR tries to (and fails) to discredit Muhammed Ali. Any screaming he does about someone "hating" a fighter is a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Poetyou're a lying scumbag who proves it with every post.

I have Joe Louis second on my ATG heavyweights after Ali.

Poet is clearly out of his ****ing rocker.

GJC
04-28-2009, 02:36 PM
If only that was true in Poet's case. Unfourtanetly Poet's victims include even the most sensible fans, he just cant refrain himself from going low, always been his style.

Like in one thread he came in with his spam attacking everyone and anyone who said that Tyson was the reason they started watching boxing in the early days. His blood pressure balooned and homosexual insults were thrown left and right. I remember being with him on a different site where he would randomly make a new tyson hate thread every 2 weeks or so, criticising everything from Mike's opposition to the size of shorts he was wearing lol utterly ridicilous.

Id rather have Tyson overated, then be underated by idiots like Poet who give him no credit whatsoever. The funny thing is that he's probably the biggest nuthugger of Joe Louis and overates his man to the max. He's got no problem with Louis winning a title from Jim Braddock, who had 25 losses and won his title from the biggest clown in boxing. Poet convenietly leaves that out, but he makes it a point to mention that Tyson won his title from Berbick 'the most undeserving champion of all' acording to him.

But because guys like Braddock and Tony 'the bum' Galento managed to floor Louis they are Gods in Poet's eyes.

What a pathetic joke that guy is.
Joe Louis was a great great fighter, I wouldn't say he won the title from the greatest HW to walk the earth and I do regard the Galento fight as a bit of a circus show. Might make a great film one day though?.

vandiar
04-28-2009, 02:42 PM
Tyson is a top ten HW. No doubt in my mind.

GJC
04-28-2009, 02:43 PM
idiot likes to suck up too as well as twist his story. Well, well, well i think it's our friend Poet who is under the seriously mistaken impression that im a nuthugger. Sad man he is.

Really how it started with me and him was when I called him out to answer me with facts when he cooked up a story that Tyson was ducking Tony Tucker who dissapeared for 2 years after that fight and came 30 pounds above his normal weight for his next fight.

He also dismissed tyson's 1st round victories over Carl Williams and Alex stewart as nothing more as wins over scared bums. Those same bums that went the distance with Holmes (Williams) and Holyfield, Foreman (Stewart)

When i wouldnt bend down to him like everybody does and called him out, Poet didnt like nobody talking back at him. After all when Poet has spoken, it's final and no poster here dare say anything or go againt his opinion.

Poet's style of dealing with someone who goes against his opinion

1) You're a cum drinking, anal itching, dick sucking, kool aid drinking cum dumping **** sucker
2) Im the smartest poster on this site, everybody else is a ****ing idiot how dare these kool aid drinking boys say anything. Im God on these forums
3) Put everyone who disagrees with him on ignore
Well I have mentioned to him that he uses a haymaker when a jab would do and I don't think he would argue the point. I think it is a sad on this site that rather than have a measured argument and accept the others point of view regardless of whether you agree with it it does seem to sink into vitriol. It seems to be that if you insult or demean my guy I will insult and demean your guy more. I'm a bit of an old man who finds it hard to embrace the new but for example I like Mayweather as a fighter and he would be a good fighter in any era. I don't think he is the greatest fighter to walk the earth though and really really hate his trash talking. I favour making my argument take it or leave it, i'll listen to you and consider if you have made an educated point or maybe walk away if I think we are on totally different planets on a subject. We could all do with calming down on these forums though I think.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 02:46 PM
Joe Louis was a great great fighter, I wouldn't say he won the title from the greatest HW to walk the earth and I do regard the Galento fight as a bit of a circus show. Might make a great film one day though?.

Apparently not willing to classify Louis' opponents as "bums" is tantamount to making them into God's and nuthugging Louis.

Here is the thread in question, you can see for yourself:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253776&highlight=month&page=14

Poet

GJC
04-28-2009, 02:53 PM
Tyson is a top ten HW. No doubt in my mind.
No top 10/12 is very fair.
I have Ali 1st and Louis 2nd that never changes.
Then Jacks Johnson,Dempsey Larry Holmes and Marciano interchange in the next 4 spots.
Foreman,Liston, Holyfield, Lewis,Tyson and Frazier interchange in the next 6 spots.
I totally reserve the right to move on a whim someone from 6th to 3rd and 7th to 12th because its my list :)

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 03:04 PM
Apparently not willing to classify Louis' opponents as "bums" is tantamount to making them into God's and nuthugging Louis.

Here is the thread in question, you can see for yourself:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253776&highlight=month&page=14

Poet

In that thread, btw, you can see where I calmly explained to BK and SL exactly what the "Bum-Of-The-Month Club" was and why it was, in fact, a misnomer. However, all they could do is keep repeating themselves over and over again like some Hindu mantra chant "they were bums, they were bums, they were bums".

Poet

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 03:10 PM
Well I have mentioned to him that he uses a haymaker when a jab would do and I don't think he would argue the point. I think it is a sad on this site that rather than have a measured argument and accept the others point of view regardless of whether you agree with it it does seem to sink into vitriol. It seems to be that if you insult or demean my guy I will insult and demean your guy more. I'm a bit of an old man who finds it hard to embrace the new but for example I like Mayweather as a fighter and he would be a good fighter in any era. I don't think he is the greatest fighter to walk the earth though and really really hate his trash talking. I favour making my argument take it or leave it, i'll listen to you and consider if you have made an educated point or maybe walk away if I think we are on totally different planets on a subject. We could all do with calming down on these forums though I think.
you sound like a good soul man, and i agree totally. A lot of angry and ignorant people post here, makes me think they didnt get enough discipline growing up. I agree with your point, it shouldnt be childish. Im not a big fan of insulting or trying to handle e-business in a tough guy manner. This is a boxing website with strangers and fans alike posting their opinions, really no right or wrong answers. Boxing historians will have their critics too.

But as with all things, it's impossible to keep things smooth for extended periods of time, not when you got guys like Poet. If a guys says 'I dont like your guy because of this and that' that's fine with me, and we'll leave it at that. Problem is we got demented Poets who run around and go further, making personal attacks, questioning your sexual orientation, and acting like a God's gift to these forums.

The quotes i posted earlier were insults directed at me, way below the belt, and that was just a taste. You can easily tell what kind of mentality this man has. His responses are those that you would expect coming from a 10 year old. When he comes at you he does it on full cylinders leaving no dirty words behind.

I just wish we had more objective posters like you. Makes discussion a whole lot easier.

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 03:21 PM
In that thread, btw, you can see where I calmly explained to BK and SL exactly what the "Bum-Of-The-Month Club" was and why it was, in fact, a misnomer. However, all they could do is keep repeating themselves over and over again like some Hindu mantra chant "they were bums, they were bums, they were bums".

Poetyet more lies from you. Apparently your reading skills are not on the par with the quality of your insults.

I never used the word 'bum' in reference to Louis' opponents, except for Tony galento, but that was when you reffered to galento in this typical manner.

Tony Galento was certainly no worse than Donovan Ruddock. Galento was certainly better than Trevor Berbick, Tyrell Biggs, and Carl Williams.

Poetcomplete drivel on your part. that is as worse as it gets.

But you also went lower with this little piece of poetry.

Come to think of it compared to damn near ANY Heavyweight titlist's opposition Tyson's looks like the fvckin' Mickey Mouse Club. Surely Rahman, Mccal, Maskaev and anyone else you label a titlist had a better run than Tyson :rolleyes:

them_apples
04-28-2009, 03:30 PM
I never looked at Louis' lists of wins as being top quality opposition, rather his 25 title defenses and longevity. I won't kid myself into thinking he fought a list of ATG's. I won't kid myself into think Mike Tyson fought garbage competition either.

Louis cracks the no.2 spot on my ATG Hw list because he had a very long successful title run.

Bernard Hopkins is my second favorite fighter of all time, but I think his opposition is highly overated on these boards, but he made an excellent run at MW (and his competition was decent).

There is no other way to spin it, Louis fought in an era when a guy like Tony Galento was one of the top dogs for years, that has to amount to something when talking about opposition quality.

Mikes division admittedly was in a low after the 70's prior to him. The heavyweight division has never been consistent, I can think of only 2 era's that produced overall solid competition. Where as the WW division for example has always produced great fighters in every era.

Tyson however doesn't have the heart of a champion for very long, he starts slacking off and get's Koed by Buster Douglas, an average rate fighter who had flip flopping training schedules. Goes to prison and doesn't avenge his loss, it was only his climb to the title that he showed heart, any of his wins after wards were based a lot on his opponent's fear.

This is often why the Tyson that fought Spinks is considered the best version. Tyson wanted to win that night, and he did.

Joe Louis would be fighting right to the end, so in his respectful era he was a greater champion, even if his opposition wasn't amazing.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 03:44 PM
I never looked at Louis' lists of wins as being top quality opposition, rather his 25 title defenses and longevity. I won't kid myself into thinking he fought a list of ATG's. I won't kid myself into think Mike Tyson fought garbage competition either.

Louis cracks the no.2 spot on my ATG Hw list because he had a very long successful title run.

Bernard Hopkins is my second favorite fighter of all time, but I think his opposition is highly overated on these boards, but he made an excellent run at MW (and his competition was decent).

There is no other way to spin it, Louis fought in an era when a guy like Tony Galento was one of the top dogs for years, that has to amount to something when talking about opposition quality.

Mikes division admittedly was in a low after the 70's prior to him. The heavyweight division has never been consistent, I can think of only 2 era's that produced overall solid competition. Where as the WW division for example has always produced great fighters in every era.

Tyson however doesn't have the heart of a champion for very long, he starts slacking off and get's Koed by Buster Douglas, an average rate fighter who had flip flopping training schedules. Goes to prison and doesn't avenge his loss, it was only his climb to the title that he showed heart, any of his wins after wards were based a lot on his opponent's fear.

This is often why the Tyson that fought Spinks is considered the best version. Tyson wanted to win that night, and he did.

Joe Louis would be fighting right to the end, so in his respectful era he was a greater champion, even if his opposition wasn't amazing.

Careful now Apples: You'll get accused of nuthugging Louis becuase you didn't say all of Louis' opponents were "bums". Come to think of it, you'll probably get accused of "hating" Tyson for not saying everyone Mike fought was an ATG :rofl:

Poet

GJC
04-28-2009, 07:08 PM
No Louis was a great champion to say otherwise is blind. As for the strength of his era, not the strongest but not one of the weakest either. The Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton era was exceptionally deep and I would imagine the likes of Quarry and Shavers would have earnta title in a different era. THat said Louis fought and beat a fair few HW title holders and in over 10 years certinly allowed the HW division to produce a challenger. I would also say that when he was finished so to speak that his effort against the new coming man Marciano was far more credible than Holmes against Tyson or Ali v Holmes. I do think though to rate Tony Galento as a top ranking HW in Louis era is stretching it. My understanding was that Galento got his shot more as a result of a good publicity campaign than as a credible challenger.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 07:45 PM
No Louis was a great champion to say otherwise is blind. As for the strength of his era, not the strongest but not one of the weakest either. The Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton era was exceptionally deep and I would imagine the likes of Quarry and Shavers would have earnta title in a different era. THat said Louis fought and beat a fair few HW title holders and in over 10 years certinly allowed the HW division to produce a challenger. I would also say that when he was finished so to speak that his effort against the new coming man Marciano was far more credible than Holmes against Tyson or Ali v Holmes. I do think though to rate Tony Galento as a top ranking HW in Louis era is stretching it. My understanding was that Galento got his shot more as a result of a good publicity campaign than as a credible challenger.

He punch and he could take a punch. Toughness was thought of much higher as a quality than it seems to be today. If it came down to it I would certainly pick him over Trevor Berbick: Easily one of the worst fighters ever to hold a Heavyweight belt.

Poet

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 09:25 PM
He punch and he could take a punch. Toughness was thought of much higher as a quality than it seems to be today. If it came down to it I would certainly pick him over Trevor Berbick: Easily one of the worst fighters ever to hold a Heavyweight belt.

Poet
and if it came down to it i would certainly pick Tyson over James Braddock, and to finish the job in less than 8 rounds.

Boogie Nights
04-28-2009, 09:28 PM
Careful now Apples: You'll get accused of nuthugging Louis becuase you didn't say all of Louis' opponents were "bums". Come to think of it, you'll probably get accused of "hating" Tyson for not saying everyone Mike fought was an ATG :rofl:

Poetare you talking about yourself? sounds like something out of your Poetry book

boxing fan: Yeah Tyson was a decent heavyweight, i enjoy watching him fight

Poet: You're a kool aid cum drinking idiot and the biggest idiot on this site. I have no patience for these tyson ****suckers. That iron prison ***** doesnt deserve to have anything good said about him.

Typical Poet.

them_apples
04-28-2009, 09:37 PM
No Louis was a great champion to say otherwise is blind. As for the strength of his era, not the strongest but not one of the weakest either. The Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton era was exceptionally deep and I would imagine the likes of Quarry and Shavers would have earnta title in a different era. THat said Louis fought and beat a fair few HW title holders and in over 10 years certinly allowed the HW division to produce a challenger. I would also say that when he was finished so to speak that his effort against the new coming man Marciano was far more credible than Holmes against Tyson or Ali v Holmes. I do think though to rate Tony Galento as a top ranking HW in Louis era is stretching it. My understanding was that Galento got his shot more as a result of a good publicity campaign than as a credible challenger.

Galento was in the top 10 for a long time during Louis era, and me personally, I don't think that guy would even beat todays slew of HW's. For one, the guy was a fat SMW, as he started his career weighing around that (and was still fat). He had no defense at all, even Samuel Peter has better defense than Tony Galento. Louis did crack him in only a few rounds, but Galento was considered one of the better HW's during Louis day.

What needs to be taken into consideration is that Louis did stand above the rest, I don't think his competition was great - but he dismantled them pretty easily.

If we are going to argue greatness, Louis had a much longer and memorable reign than Tyson but I really can't see the men he fought being better than any of the average rate contenders Tyson fought.

Looking at Louis' record, it seems he fought his best competition towards the end of his career. This is also when he started suffering some losses. (I consider the Walcott fight a robbery). Tyson's resume has some great names on it to towards the end of his career (I'm not talking about age, only prime) This is also when some losses start showing up. So we really don't know how good these guys would have been had they met prime for prime with their respective opponents (Tyson vs Holyfield, Louis vs Charles etc).

For the record, I see Prime Louis beating Rocky by either TKO or UD, and Tyson beating Lennox Lewis by UD (probably not by Ko due to Lewis' height) Although I think a prime Holyfield still would have his number.

@ Poet, are you sure you aren't holding any dislike for Berbick because he beat Ali at the end of his career? Berbick was bad but I can't see a guy like Galento overstepping him? On top of that Galento's record is littered with losses. Although I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about Galento.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2009, 09:50 PM
@Poet, are you sure you aren't holding any dislike for Berbick because he beat Ali at the end of his career? Berbick was bad but I can't see a guy like Galento overstepping him? On top of that Galento's record is littered with losses. Although I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about Galento.

Not at all. That was Ali's fault for hanging around too damn long. I remember that era very well though and Berbick was the poster boy for everything that was wrong with the Heavyweight division. Quite possibly the only Heavyweight belt holder I have less regard for than Berbick is Carnera and that because practically Primo's entire career was a fraud (nothing against Carnera personally, from everything I understand he was a nice, if naive person who was unaware that he was participating in fixes).

Poet

Kid McCoy
04-28-2009, 10:40 PM
While there's a question mark over a lot of his early fights, Carnera did have some fine, legitimate wins in his career, like Sharkey (I believe that was a legit KO), Loughran and Uzcudun. He won his title from a Hall of Famer, defended it against a Hall of Famer, and then lost it to a Hall of Famer, which isn't bad going. Nor does he really get much due for the great heart he showed against Baer, having broken his ankle early on. I'm not saying he was great, but he wasn't the circus act he's sometimes painted as either and deserves some credit for his career.

TheGreatA
04-29-2009, 06:01 AM
While there's a question mark over a lot of his early fights, Carnera did have some fine, legitimate wins in his career, like Sharkey (I believe that was a legit KO), Loughran and Uzcudun. He won his title from a Hall of Famer, defended it against a Hall of Famer, and then lost it to a Hall of Famer, which isn't bad going. Nor does he really get much due for the great heart he showed against Baer, having broken his ankle early on. I'm not saying he was great, but he wasn't the circus act he's sometimes painted as either and deserves some credit for his career.

Carnera had some legit wins. I believe the early part of his career was "fixed" but mostly because the opponents he fought had no business being in the ring.

The Godfrey fight was suspicious but Godfrey was known for throwing low blows. He did seem to try to KO Carnera with some of the right hands he threw.

He was knocked out by Louis and Baer but he did better against them than most. Carnera had actually built a lead on the scorecards against Baer despite the knockdowns he suffered in the early rounds until another wild haymaker landed and further injured his already broken ankle.

Against Louis he survived 6 rounds, keeping Louis off of him with the jab but absorbing terrific punishment at times and especially at the end.

BennyST
04-29-2009, 06:13 AM
Galento was in the top 10 for a long time during Louis era, and me personally,

Although I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about Galento.

Actually, as someone else mentioned, Galento was basically a smart publicist. Even then everyone knew he didn't have a hope in hell of beating Louis and it was really just a scam. Most knew about it though and Galento was the first one to jump on the ride. He never really did anything and it was about as much due to knowing people and being a smart manager that he was ranked highly.

Kid McCoy
04-29-2009, 03:19 PM
Carnera had some legit wins. I believe the early part of his career was "fixed" but mostly because the opponents he fought had no business being in the ring.

The Godfrey fight was suspicious but Godfrey was known for throwing low blows. He did seem to try to KO Carnera with some of the right hands he threw.

He was knocked out by Louis and Baer but he did better against them than most. Carnera had actually built a lead on the scorecards against Baer despite the knockdowns he suffered in the early rounds until another wild haymaker landed and further injured his already broken ankle.

Against Louis he survived 6 rounds, keeping Louis off of him with the jab but absorbing terrific punishment at times and especially at the end.

I imagine a lot of his early opponents were overmatched, but there were undoubtedly some outright fixes among them. Thomas Myler documents them well in his book, Boxing's Hall of Shame.

For what it's worth, Carnera's manager later specified which Carnera fights were fixed and which were legit, and had the Godfrey bout as being on the level. Whether it really was, who knows? Godfrey did have a history of low blows though; he was disqualified against Larry Gains for the same reason.

GJC
04-29-2009, 03:48 PM
He punch and he could take a punch. Toughness was thought of much higher as a quality than it seems to be today. If it came down to it I would certainly pick him over Trevor Berbick: Easily one of the worst fighters ever to hold a Heavyweight belt.

Poet
Agree that Berbick was poor wouldn't say he was any worse than Tubbs IMO but certainly in that bracket. Galento beating either of them? We'll have to agree to differ, I would compare Galento to Butterbean rather than Berbick.

GJC
04-29-2009, 03:54 PM
Looking at Louis' record, it seems he fought his best competition towards the end of his career. This is also when he started suffering some losses. (I consider the Walcott fight a robbery). Tyson's resume has some great names on it to towards the end of his career (I'm not talking about age, only prime) This is also when some losses start showing up. So we really don't know how good these guys would have been had they met prime for prime with their respective opponents (Tyson vs Holyfield, Louis vs Charles etc).


Think both Louis and Tyson spent early parts of career clearing out the old guard. Louis pretty much wiped out all the title holders post Tunney and Tyson pretty much wiped out Holmes ex challengers. A lot of title holders have 3 acts clear out the old guard, face their contemporarys then onto the new wave. Thats why longevity is so important when measuring ATG's IMO

GJC
04-29-2009, 03:55 PM
I imagine a lot of his early opponents were overmatched, but there were undoubtedly some outright fixes among them. Thomas Myler documents them well in his book, Boxing's Hall of Shame.

For what it's worth, Carnera's manager later specified which Carnera fights were fixed and which were legit, and had the Godfrey bout as being on the level. Whether it really was, who knows? Godfrey did have a history of low blows though; he was disqualified against Larry Gains for the same reason.
The Sharkey fight always had a smell to it though Sharkey was always a bit of a strange character

TheGreatA
04-29-2009, 04:07 PM
Galento was decent but only if he was allowed to foul excessively.

To be fair he did have wins over Ettore, Haynes and Mann. Not big names but they were decent fighters although much smaller than Galento was.

He also had a big win over the best prospect at the time Lou Nova which kept Galento in the top 10 but everyone regarded the fight as a disgrace to boxing. Galento did everything he could to make a bar brawl out of it and the referee allowed it.

I believe Galento was supposed to fight a young Joe Louis years before their actual fight as a stepping stone.

GJC
04-29-2009, 04:12 PM
For the record, I see Prime Louis beating Rocky by either TKO or UD, and Tyson beating Lennox Lewis by UD (probably not by Ko due to Lewis' height)

I would always put Louis over Marciano although I always respect Marciano's chin, stamina and punching power to give him a chance. Louis will win as long as he keeps that damn left up! Not sure I agree with Tyson over Lewis by UD, you think Tyson's stamina and heart will last against a quality opponent such as a peak Lewis? I think that Tyson could blast out a cold Lewis though, depends which Lewis turns up on the night. Lewis could be a slow starter, the best of Tyson was usually in the 1st 5 rounds I think if Lewis weathered those I'd fancy him to win.

GJC
04-29-2009, 04:15 PM
Galento was decent but only if he was allowed to foul excessively.

To be fair he did have wins over Ettore, Haynes and Mann. Not big names but they were decent fighters although much smaller than Galento was.

He also had a big win over the best prospect at the time Lou Nova which kept Galento in the top 10 but everyone regarded the fight as a disgrace to boxing. Galento did everything he could to make a bar brawl out of it and the referee allowed it.

I believe Galento was supposed to fight a young Joe Louis years before their actual fight as a stepping stone.
Louis fought possibly the stupidest fight of his career against Galento and still managed to slaughter him. Think the fight happened as the result of some clever PR on Galento's part. I think it is akin to Ali fighting that Japanese wrestler or when he was touted to fight Chamberlain the basketball player.

Kid McCoy
04-29-2009, 04:22 PM
The Sharkey fight always had a smell to it though Sharkey was always a bit of a strange character

The Sharkey KO punch always looked legit to me. Carnera was a 250lb guy who put his full body weight behind that uppercut, and it's not as if Sharkey had an iron chin. At the very least, it was not an outrageously implausible outcome. I believe Jack broke his nose when he landed on his face, so if he did dive he certainly made it look good.

Sharkey was definitely a curious character though, variously claiming that he stayed down against Carnera because he saw the ghost of his friend Ernie Schaaf in the ring or just that Carnera had improved a lot since their last meeting. Again, who knows? But I believe it was legit.

Southpaw16BF
04-29-2009, 04:23 PM
I believe Galento was supposed to fight a young Joe Louis years before their actual fight as a stepping stone.

Also in the prefight, Galento phoned Louis, to tell him he was going to get knocked out, and also bad mouthed his wife. Due to this Louis come out bad tempered and not his usaul cool calm self, and was staggered in round 1 and dropped in round 3.

But when he would rise, and find his feet Galento took one hell of a beating and was knocked out in 4.

RightCross94
04-29-2009, 06:01 PM
Well, since you're neither Benitez OR Tyson you're hardly in any position to talk. More to the point, you completely dodged the point I made regarding Benitez winning HID first title at 17 over an ATG. BTW? What did YOU do at 17? Drop out of high school and smoke dope on the street corner?

Poet

:lol1: hahha wow......owned

PLATE
04-29-2009, 06:25 PM
I would always put Louis over Marciano although I always respect Marciano's chin, stamina and punching power to give him a chance. Louis will win as long as he keeps that damn left up! Not sure I agree with Tyson over Lewis by UD, you think Tyson's stamina and heart will last against a quality opponent such as a peak Lewis? I think that Tyson could blast out a cold Lewis though, depends which Lewis turns up on the night. Lewis could be a slow starter, the best of Tyson was usually in the 1st 5 rounds I think if Lewis weathered those I'd fancy him to win.

Its ironic, you guys, that no less of an authority than Joe Louis himself declared that he could never have beaten Marciano

As for Lewis vs Tyson? I think prime Lewis was just too much of a good thing for prime Tyson, who even Buster Douglas managed to make look crude and inferior. Lewis would certainly not have underestimated him as he had Rahman and McCall; he would've dominated with his superior skills, reach, ring intelligence etc A fabulous puncher like iron mike would always have a chance of course, but Lennox would've destroyed him in the rematch

Benny Leonard
04-30-2009, 02:07 AM
Its ironic, you guys, that no less of an authority than Joe Louis himself declared that he could never have beaten Marciano

As for Lewis vs Tyson? I think prime Lewis was just too much of a good thing for prime Tyson, who even Buster Douglas managed to make look crude and inferior. Lewis would certainly not have underestimated him as he had Rahman and McCall; he would've dominated with his superior skills, reach, ring intelligence etc A fabulous puncher like iron mike would always have a chance of course, but Lennox would've destroyed him in the rematch

He said he didn't like to be smothered which really didn't matter because he adapted to that style before and won by KO. He may not have liked to be smothered but he sure knew how to deal with it after he saw it once.
And for Rocky, Rocky also said that he liked "room" to get off his punches. Give Louis room and your dead.
How long did it take Rocky to knockout a Shot version of Louis?
It took Rocky 12+ rounds to knockout out Walcott when Louis did it in quicker fashion years before while being past his prime.


Louis was also a nice guy and liked Rocky. If Louis talked straight and said he would have KO'd Rocky, that would have made him look bad...especially given all he had built up over the years of being a "Black" Man in a White America...with a "White" Champion in Rocky Marciano.

After Louis saw the style once...Godoy II

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Tyson vs. Lewis:

Lewis's best bet is to show up like he does in his rematch mentality. Tyson at his best was over after Spinks. All the proof of what a good trainer can do for you and how important motivation plays in this. What is surprising and a shame, was how young Tyson was since he should have only gotten better and stronger as he aged into this mid-late 20's.
Same happened to Lewis when he met Rahman when Lewis didn't come completely prepared.

Tale of the Tape would always make Tyson look small compared to the rest of the big boys...but he still did beat bigger fighters.

I could see Lewis at his best beating Tyson at his best...quite possible. It might actually be a boring fight though. Lewis would probably try to keep tying him up.


Lewis would trouble Louis as well...as well as troubling, well, knocking out Rocky.

them_apples
04-30-2009, 02:29 AM
Rocky would have been sparked had he fought a Prime Louis. If Wallcott had more in the gas tank he would have won too.

JAB5239
04-30-2009, 04:29 AM
The Sharkey fight always had a smell to it though Sharkey was always a bit of a strange character

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this. I've watched the Sharkey fight more than a dozen times and if one fight stands out as legit, its this one. We'll all draw deifferent conclussions when talking about Carnera's career, but even Sharkey's wife claimed this fight was on the level.

TheGreatA
04-30-2009, 06:33 AM
Louis was a shadow of what he used to be when he fought Marciano and he was still competitive for 6 rounds with the use of the left jab only. That's literally the only thing Louis had left at that point of his career, his jab.

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GJC
04-30-2009, 03:08 PM
Walcott proved that Marciano could be getting well beat for 12 rounds and win in the
13th, with his chin, stamina and punch he will always have a chance. I'm of the view that in ten fights Louis wins 7 or 8 of them.

GJC
05-02-2009, 10:02 AM
Rocky would have been sparked had he fought a Prime Louis. If Wallcott had more in the gas tank he would have won too.
Walcott lost because he got hit by a fantastic punch wasn't really a stamina problem.

TheGreatA
05-02-2009, 10:41 AM
Walcott lost because he got hit by a fantastic punch wasn't really a stamina problem.

It's only my opinion but Walcott spent more time against the ropes in that fight than in any other fight of his that I've seen. I don't think he had the legs to move around for 15 rounds as he did in the first Louis fight. He seemed to be conserving energy against Marciano which gave Marciano more opportunities to land his big right.

Perhaps in his prime he could have survived the 15 round distance.

Footage of the first Louis-Walcott fight:

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GJC
05-02-2009, 11:57 AM
It's only my opinion but Walcott spent more time against the ropes in that fight than in any other fight of his that I've seen. I don't think he had the legs to move around for 15 rounds as he did in the first Louis fight. He seemed to be conserving energy against Marciano which gave Marciano more opportunities to land his big right.

Perhaps in his prime he could have survived the 15 round distance.



Walcott put a lot into that fight and gave Marciano a good hiding really, probably didn't fight as cagily as he could. Think it comes down to the fact that you only need a split second to land and Marciano beat him to the punch. A hell of a right though don't think many would have beaten the count after that.

BritishFightFan
05-02-2009, 12:14 PM
Easily the most exciting and entertaining pugilist of all time.

He was like a modern, better version of Jack Dempsey from the '30s.

Even though he was just 5'10 I feel that he could have been the greatest Heavyweight of all time if he had have been mentally strong and not so complacent against mediocre fighters such as Douglas. He let arrogant, hubris scum like Don King manipulate him and make him think he was infallible and that was his downfall, but he still has a great legacy because not many men can match the twelve Heavyweight World title fight wins that he attained in his career.

GJC
05-02-2009, 12:32 PM
He was like a modern, better version of Jack Dempsey from the '30s.


Little tip, proof read. People here take a great deal of pleasure nit picking errors like that out and you will find your opinions not given as much weight as you would hope.

LondonRingRules
05-02-2009, 12:45 PM
It's only my opinion but Walcott spent more time against the ropes in that fight than in any other fight of his that I've seen. I don't think he had the legs to move around for 15 rounds as he did in the first Louis fight. He seemed to be conserving energy against Marciano which gave Marciano more opportunities to land his big right.

Perhaps in his prime he could have survived the 15 round distance.


** Walcott was completely dismissive of Rocky as a clubfighter and emptied his ammo early on in what he thought would be an easy KO.

Should've worked as Rocky completely outclassed in the early going, but we know now he had a world class chin. Walcott can be forgiven for thinking he could take Rocky so easily as he wasn't Rocky of legend back then.

Sometimes these things reveal themselves in a very cruel and harsh fashion in the ring.

WelshDevilRob
05-02-2009, 01:56 PM
Great video, mountain.

I rate Mike Tyson as one of the All time Greats - I think that is a formality - a no-brainer. To deny the man is nonsensical.

He was a devastating fighter at his best and his main downfall was his adaptability - he fought one way.

People can have fond memories of Dempsey and Marciano but they would have had a beating against Mike Tyson. Joe Louis had more to his game so can see him beating Mike but that is no formality.

Tyson transcended boxing and kickstarted it into a new generation.

Illmetaphor
05-04-2009, 02:15 AM
Tyson is the truth.

JAB5239
05-04-2009, 03:57 AM
** Walcott was completely dismissive of Rocky as a clubfighter and emptied his ammo early on in what he thought would be an easy KO.

Should've worked as Rocky completely outclassed in the early going, but we know now he had a world class chin. Walcott can be forgiven for thinking he could take Rocky so easily as he wasn't Rocky of legend back then.

Sometimes these things reveal themselves in a very cruel and harsh fashion in the ring.

Some of this is partially true, but the rematch proved it meant little. Just saying, my friend.

English_Lion
05-04-2009, 05:28 AM
Tyson for me, is the man who got me in to the sport, i became an instant fan as a 6 year old, staying up to 4am in the morning to catch a glimpse of this fighter. The buzz, the hype, the excitement...the anticipation, will never be created again..not like he made it

PLATE
05-04-2009, 06:20 PM
Tyson was an overrated piece of **** who lost to some horrible fighters. This thread ends NOW. I forbid anyone to post in it anymore.

:mad:

Kid McCoy
05-04-2009, 06:34 PM
Tyson was an overrated piece of **** who lost to some horrible fighters. This thread ends NOW. I forbid anyone to post in it anymore.

:mad:

You've made 246 posts on this forum, and I'd wager that over half of them were Tyson-related.

Why the obsession?

GJC
05-04-2009, 08:42 PM
Tyson for me, is the man who got me in to the sport, i became an instant fan as a 6 year old, staying up to 4am in the morning to catch a glimpse of this fighter. The buzz, the hype, the excitement...the anticipation, will never be created again..not like he made it
Hang in there it will, been lots of great fighters and will be lots more. Tyson will just be your 1st love.