View Full Version : Rocky Marciano vs Joe Frazier, who'd win?


Special K
04-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Two smaller HW legends. An intriguing match up, surely?

Miburo
04-13-2009, 12:20 PM
Hard to venture a guess. It largely would depend upon the Rock's ability to hurt Frazier in my opinion. If his power could faze him, Marciano could take it since they would both go right at each other.

res
04-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Frazier. He has felt George Foreman's power and Marciano has never felt any power like Frazier's.

Plus in a brawl type fight Frazier will be more more allusive than Marciano. Marciano's style of defense worked best against Boxer punchers.

Bendigo
04-13-2009, 06:57 PM
Depends. Is Frazier over 40? So much depends on this.

Cortezsucks
04-13-2009, 07:07 PM
Styles mean it would be centre ring brawl.

the guy who takes a better shot wins and thats Rocky.

Would be a war.

Benny Leonard
04-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Styles mean it would be centre ring brawl.

the guy who takes a better shot wins and thats Rocky.

Would be a war.

What makes you think Rocky takes a better shot than Joe?

Rocky was put down by Walcott and Moore while Joe's trouble was against Big George Foreman.

Slimey Limey
04-13-2009, 07:37 PM
What makes you think Rocky takes a better shot than Joe?

Rocky was put down by Walcott and Moore while Joe's trouble was against Big George Foreman.

Against Moore he was off balance. Walcott could also take people's heads off especially if they didn't see it coming. Watch the Walcott-Charles KO. Marciano took a hellacious shots like that and came back to win. Frazier went down before Foreman and Ali.

Marciano would win this fight in the opening seconds of round 1.

sleazyfellow
04-13-2009, 07:44 PM
Against Moore he was off balance. Walcott could also take people's heads off especially if they didn't see it coming. Watch the Walcott-Charles KO. Marciano took a hellacious shots like that and came back to win. Frazier went down before Foreman and Ali.

Marciano would win this fight in the opening seconds of round 1.

That shot moore got him with was good though, bloodied his nose.

Frazier did NOT go down before Ali, EVER. Bonavena and Foreman knocked him down quite a bit though. I still think Frazier would win this though. I have always said that fraziers left hook>rockys right hand

Slimey Limey
04-13-2009, 07:52 PM
That shot moore got him with was good though, bloodied his nose.

Frazier did NOT go down before Ali, EVER. Bonavena and Foreman knocked him down quite a bit though. I still think Frazier would win this though. I have always said that fraziers left hook>rockys right hand

You would need weapons of mass destruction to match the power of Marciano's right cross mate.
And Marciano had power in all of his punches. He destroyed a lot of fighters with left hooks and uppercuts as well.

I saw Frazier unable to hurt Foreman with his left hook yet Lyle and Young knocked him down several times with right hands. Marciano´s right was harder than both lads.

Benny Leonard
04-13-2009, 08:14 PM
You would need weapons of mass destruction to match the power of Marciano's right cross mate.
And Marciano had power in all of his punches. He destroyed a lot of fighters with left hooks and uppercuts as well.

I saw Frazier unable to hurt Foreman with his left hook yet Lyle and Young knocked him down several times with right hands. Marciano´s right was harder than both lads.


Frazier was also 5'11 with a 73 inch {?} reach unlike Lyle and Young who were both 6'2+
Foreman was also a 200+ big, strong, HW.

Marciano was also more of an accumulation puncher and it wasn't like he was knocking out the big 200+ pound good fighters because he didn't fight any.

Look who he knocked out too: Moore, Walcott, and Charles were the big names. All were under 200 pound fighters and Charles and Moore especially were LH fighters. All were past their prime. All had been previously been in many battles/many fights and had all been knocked out.

Look at Walcott for instance: Walcott was knocked out by past-prime Joe Louis before Rocky got to him. Walcott also knocked out Charles before Rocky got to him. And do we have to continue with Moore?

Rocky had very good power, no question, but let's not get to ahead of ourselves.

Benny Leonard
04-13-2009, 08:17 PM
Against Moore he was off balance. Walcott could also take people's heads off especially if they didn't see it coming. Watch the Walcott-Charles KO. Marciano took a hellacious shots like that and came back to win. Frazier went down before Foreman and Ali.

Marciano would win this fight in the opening seconds of round 1.

Disagree: It was a nice shot by Old Man Moore and Rocky's legs gave right out.

2:29 and continue on to the slow-motion replay
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I think it would be a great fight; not sure who wins yet. I'll have to think about it some more even though I'm leaning towards one fighter right now.

them_apples
04-13-2009, 08:29 PM
frazier might hit the canvas once or twice but honestly, that left hook would have it's toll, especially after 15.

Knighte
04-13-2009, 08:35 PM
Marciano would win this thrilling encounter, because he was all Joe Frazier was and more.

Slimey Limey
04-13-2009, 08:36 PM
Frazier was also 5'11 with a 73 inch {?} reach unlike Lyle and Young who were both 6'2+
Foreman was also a 200+ big, strong, HW.

Marciano was also more of an accumulation puncher and it wasn't like he was knocking out the big 200+ pound good fighters because he didn't fight any.

Look who he knocked out too: Moore, Walcott, and Charles were the big names. All were under 200 pound fighters and Charles and Moore especially were LH fighters. All were past their prime. All had been previously been in many battles/many fights and had all been knocked out.

Look at Walcott for instance: Walcott was knocked out by past-prime Joe Louis before Rocky got to him. Walcott also knocked out Charles before Rocky got to him. And do we have to continue with Moore?

Rocky had very good power, no question, but let's not get to ahead of ourselves.

You can pick apart any fighter like you just did here so I´m just gonna ignore this bollocks.


frazier might hit the canvas once or twice but honestly, that left hook would have it's toll, especially after 15.

It wouldn´t have its toll if Frazier wouldn´t even make it out of the opening seconds of the first round.

TheGreatA
04-13-2009, 08:41 PM
Rocky Marciano KO1 anyone who ever fought.

them_apples
04-13-2009, 08:42 PM
You can pick apart any fighter like you just did here so I´m just gonna ignore this bollocks.




It wouldn´t have its toll if Frazier wouldn´t even make it out of the opening seconds of the first round.

lol....I'd sooner bet my money on rocky hitting the canvas in the first. Who did Rocky fight that is anywhere near a prime Frazier.

Even when it comes to stamina, I'd still bet on Frazier, more power, more speed, equal workrate and in this fight, the better chin. Foreman's the only guy who destroyed Frazier, he would have done the same to Rocky, as would have Liston.

TheGreatA
04-13-2009, 08:49 PM
<div><object width="480" height="381"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xphzy_rocky-marciano-vs-rex-layne-1207195_sport&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xphzy_rocky-marciano-vs-rex-layne-1207195_sport&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="381" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xphzy_rocky-marciano-vs-rex-layne-1207195_sport">Rocky Marciano vs Rex Layne 12-07-1951</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheHomelessDetective">TheHomelessDetective</a></i></div>

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Probably the closest to a Frazier vs Marciano match-up both fighters had stylistically.

Kid McCoy
04-13-2009, 08:52 PM
Rocky Marciano KO1 anyone who ever fought.

Rocky once got bitten by a black widow. After two days of agonising pain the black widow died.

Btw, I favour Frazier to win a decision.

Slimey Limey
04-13-2009, 08:52 PM
lol....I'd sooner bet my money on rocky hitting the canvas in the first. Who did Rocky fight that is anywhere near a prime Frazier.

That argument is always bollocks because the same can be said about fighter b.
Plus it´s not required to have beaten a similar fighter before. It happens all the time, a fighter fights a certain type of fighter he never fought before and he wins.

Even when it comes to stamina, I'd still bet on Frazier, more power, more speed, equal workrate and in this fight, the better chin. Foreman's the only guy who destroyed Frazier, he would have done the same to Rocky, as would have Liston.

Bollocks. Nobody had more stamina than Marciano. More power? Marciano had more power and MORE punches compared to left hook/only/Frazier. Speed is close and chin goes to Rocky as well. Frazier displayed chicken legs in every fight.

Maybe the thread starter should give Marciano a bigger challenge than a few seconds of quick work here.

Slimey Limey
04-13-2009, 08:54 PM
Rocky Marciano KO1 anyone who ever fought.

A troll comment and youtube vids. You are one of the worst posters around.

Omega-Red
04-13-2009, 08:56 PM
Against Moore he was off balance. Walcott could also take people's heads off especially if they didn't see it coming. Watch the Walcott-Charles KO. Marciano took a hellacious shots like that and came back to win. Frazier went down before Foreman and Ali.

Marciano would win this fight in the opening seconds of round 1.


This post must be a joke.

Rocky got knocked down by a freaking former middleweight (Archie Moore). It took him all night of banging on the heads of natural light heavyweights to bring them down.


Frazier took open shots from George Foreman and got up six times.

if big George Foreman hit little Rocky Marciano once he would release his bladder and fall into a coma.

Slimey Limey
04-13-2009, 09:01 PM
Frazier took open shots from George Foreman and got up six times.


Is this supposed to be an accomplishment? Getting beaten into the ground like a reheaded stepchild is nothing to be proud of. You must be a V-Klitschko fan mate.

Omega-Red
04-13-2009, 09:03 PM
Is this supposed to be an accomplishment? Getting beaten into the ground like a reheaded stepchild is nothing to be proud of. You must be a V-Klitschko fan mate.

it's not an accomplishment, it shows his chin.

You live in fantasy land, Marciano was hit by an assorted collection of munchkins, how in the world are you going to compare their chins.

TheGreatA
04-13-2009, 09:19 PM
A troll comment and youtube vids. You are one of the worst posters around.

Says Slimey Limey who never responded to my arguments in a previous thread and could only come up with childish insults.

I have never seen a single meaningful post from you. Even in this thread you're suggesting that Marciano would knock Frazier out in a matter of seconds which must be a joke. Laughable.

elfag
04-13-2009, 09:43 PM
I saw Frazier unable to hurt Foreman with his left hook yet Lyle and Young knocked him down several times with right hands. Marciano´s right was harder than both lads.


Those 2 fights were after the Ali fight. Foreman wasnt the same fighter after the Ali fight. He never struggled like that pre-Ali. After the Ali beatdown he wasnt the same.

PLATE
04-13-2009, 10:22 PM
For what it's worth I agree with ya, Slimey Limey. Marciano is so undervalued on this forum it's ridiculous. It's almost as though his perfect record and unparallelled KO percentage prompt neophyte fans to immediately attempt to tear him down. Why so many people are so terrified and intimidated by sparkling success is one life's little mysteries.. I'm just glad I'm not that way!

Joe Frazier gets all my respect, but he is essentially a one-armed fighter whereas Marciano, in additioning to possessing all the attributes (and more!) that made Frazier great, had genuine two-fisted KO power. It would have taken a Foreman or Tua type behemoth to stop him.

Frazier would have absorbed so much punishment against a raging swarming tireless bomb-throwing Marciano, his corner would have thrown in the towel mid-fight.

Omega-Red
04-13-2009, 11:53 PM
Frazier would have absorbed so much punishment against a raging swarming tireless bomb-throwing Marciano, his corner would have thrown in the towel mid-fight.

You guys are in fantasy land, who did Marciano take consistent punishment from that hit as hard as Frazier? Archie Moore? Ezzard Charles? Jersey Joe Walcott? hahaha, most of these guys aren't even pure heavyweights. Is this why Marciano's chin is revered? Because he took consistent punishment from these guys?


Imagine a former middle weight like Archie Moore knocking Joe Frazier on his butt :lol1:.

I also like how people keep bringing up Marciano's undefeatedness as if retiring really early is some kind of accomplishment.

He fought 5 freaking people after he won the title and then retired. Ali could have jumped out after as many fights as well, so could Tyson, Holyfield Holmes (more than twice as long) Dempsey, Joe louis, you get the point, it's no accomplishment, just Boxing trivia.

Rocky really got out JUST IN TIME to avoid up and coming young Sonny Liston, a REAL heavyweight.


Rocky Marciano, the guy that beats on LITTLE OLD men.

Thunder Lips
04-14-2009, 01:13 AM
Eh, they are pretty even. Really too tough to realistically call.

Still this match up always reminds me of Frazier's problems with Quarry in the early rounds. Before his usual gassing and injuries popped up, Quarry was able to back up Joe up with his physical power and tough smothering in fighting. I think Marciano could do the same for all 15 rounds and would favor him by a close decision in a war.

Jim Jeffries
04-14-2009, 01:52 AM
Marciano definitely matches up better with Frazier, at his best around 203, than he does with Tyson. I see a brutal war, with both guys visiting the canvas more than once. The result being determined by which era they're fighting in, as in Frazier's (or today) Rocky has more of a chance to be stopped on cuts.

stefjonno1
04-14-2009, 02:53 AM
I think a prime Frazier would win the one.

sleazyfellow
04-14-2009, 04:16 AM
You would need weapons of mass destruction to match the power of Marciano's right cross mate.
And Marciano had power in all of his punches. He destroyed a lot of fighters with left hooks and uppercuts as well.

I saw Frazier unable to hurt Foreman with his left hook yet Lyle and Young knocked him down several times with right hands. Marciano´s right was harder than both lads.

I dont know why Im responding to this but ah well...

Lyle did knock down foreman yes, and IDK where you pulled that from, that Marciano hits harder than he does, anybody sane would call you on that bull****. P4P yes I can agree he hits harder than Lyle, but then again so does tommy hearns and alot of other fighters P4P. Foreman fell against young and ali through exhaustion, you dont beleive it watch the ****ing films.

Marciano does have a good shot against Fraizer if he fights frazier after the fight of century, he wasnt the same after it. If he caught frazier before those fights, no way.

I also saw in one of your post that marciano was faster than frazier.... forget it
:Thinkingo

mickey malone
04-14-2009, 07:37 AM
Although Frazier fought better fighters while ln their prime, there were certain styles he couldn't deal with, whereas it didn't make any difference to the Rock.. Marciano by late TKO..

Abstraction
04-14-2009, 10:44 AM
Frazier, Late TKO imo

UKBRAWLER
04-14-2009, 10:52 AM
Very close........if they fought ten times both would have wins and losses

Cortezsucks
04-14-2009, 06:33 PM
What makes you think Rocky takes a better shot than Joe?

Rocky was put down by Walcott and Moore while Joe's trouble was against Big George Foreman.



are you blind?

Of course Rocky took a better shot. Never EVER on queer street.

Benny Leonard
04-14-2009, 07:33 PM
are you blind?

Of course Rocky took a better shot. Never EVER on queer street.

He was put down by Moore and Walcott.

Frazier was knocked out by Big George Foreman (in his prime).

Marciano never faced a 200+ pound Big Man that could punch like Foreman.

TheGreatA
04-14-2009, 07:58 PM
Marciano was nearly knocked out by Tiger Ted Lowry, a light heavyweight journeyman.

Southpaw16BF
04-14-2009, 08:23 PM
When Ring Magazine done there 50 greatest fights not to happen, Joe Frazier vs Rocky Marciano was one of the fights they picked.

There outcome was, (to cut a long stroy short so to speak) that both fighters come out and have vicious exchanges, and Frazier's size and strength seem to be making it a one sided fight, and Marciano is cut from both eye's and taking heavy punishment, but knocks Frazier down with a right cross in the 4th. Frazier goes down but gets up at 9, and is glad to hear the bell. Midway through round 6 a split opens on Marciano nose and the fights is stopped.

Thunder Lips
04-14-2009, 08:24 PM
This post must be a joke.

Rocky got knocked down by a freaking former middleweight (Archie Moore). It took him all night of banging on the heads of natural light heavyweights to bring them down.
.

Now lets not disrespect Archie Moore's power cause he jumped up and down in weight. You sound as clueless as the poster your trying to put down. Archie Moore was an all time great power puncher and his right hand was a threat to anyone.


http://static.boxrec.com/wiki/f/f2/Baker.Moore.jpg

Moore stops the durable 6'3" Bob Baker who often weighed between 210-220+. He would not be stopped again in a long career where he took on all contenders and some very big punchers, even taking a win against a young Chuvalo.

As for Moore's durability. Another all time great puncher Patterson was the only other fighter to stop Moore during his extended peak and Ali got him near the end of his career. Its not like Moore didn't go toe to toe with big sluggers like Valdes either, he took shots from much much "bigger" brawlers than Marciano.

Southpaw16BF
04-14-2009, 08:26 PM
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/images/RockyMarciano-1.jpg

VS

http://www.solarnavigator.net/sport/sport_images/joe_frazier.jpg

HIGLIGHTS OF BOTH FIGHTERS!


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Southpaw16BF
04-14-2009, 08:38 PM
Marciano was nearly knocked out by Tiger Ted Lowry, a light heavyweight journeyman.

Indeed, alot of boxing people thought Lowry won there 1st fight. Including Lowry himself, saying ''I feel as if I was cheated out of my little piece of history. But then I realize I still have a piece of history''

Ted ''Tiger'' Lowry was born New Bedford USA, and was a very tough and game fighter in his boxing days. His best win came against Billy Fox who he beat on points in 48. Rocky Marcaino tried twice, Archie Moore tryed, Jimmy Bivins tryed Fireman Jim Flynn tryed and Rex Layne tryed but non could stop Ted Lowry, a pretty impressive stat in its own right.

Here's a good article on him
http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/3211/tiger-ted-lowry-tale/

Bendigo
04-14-2009, 08:52 PM
You would need weapons of mass destruction to match the power of Marciano's right cross mate.
And Marciano had power in all of his punches. He destroyed a lot of fighters with left hooks and uppercuts as well.

I saw Frazier unable to hurt Foreman with his left hook yet Lyle and Young knocked him down several times with right hands. Marciano´s right was harder than both lads.

But not before they were first destroyed by Alzheimer's.

Omega-Red
04-15-2009, 01:13 PM
Now lets not disrespect Archie Moore's power cause he jumped up and down in weight. You sound as clueless as the poster your trying to put down. Archie Moore was an all time great power puncher and his right hand was a threat to anyone.




"Up and down"? As far as I know he just went up, up to take a shot at the more prestigious higher weight Boxing titles like many contenders do. He was just much more successful at it than others.

He did pack a good punch but he was no Joe Frazier.

MarkScott
04-15-2009, 11:42 PM
Would be hell of a fight. A bloodied Rocky would hammer Joe out in late round.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786439947/ref=pd_luc_hashrec_03_03

PLATE
04-16-2009, 04:59 PM
"Up and down"? As far as I know he just went up, up to take a shot at the more prestigious higher weight Boxing titles like many contenders do. He was just much more successful at it than others.

He did pack a good punch but he was no Joe Frazier.

Didn't he have more KOs than any boxer in history?

JAB5239
04-16-2009, 05:52 PM
Didn't he have more KOs than any boxer in history?

That honor belongs to the great Archie Moore, if I am not mistaken.

Omega-Red
04-16-2009, 07:02 PM
Didn't he have more KOs than any boxer in history?

That's because he fought until he was 72, I doubt he has the highest knockout percentage.

JAB5239
04-16-2009, 07:27 PM
That's because he fought until he was 72, I doubt he has the highest knockout percentage.

Well, Young Stribling has the second most ko's in boxing history and he was dead by age 28.

TheGreatA
04-16-2009, 07:31 PM
That's because he fought until he was 72, I doubt he has the highest knockout percentage.

Old Archie was a great puncher, pound for pound a harder hitter than Frazier, but he scored many of his KO's as a middleweight/light heavyweight.

He did KO heavyweights as well, even those who were over 6'3, 210+ lbs. Bob Baker, Alejandro Lavorante, Embrell Davidson and James J Parker were among Moore's KO victims.

I think Frazier was the bigger puncher as a heavyweight though. Moore got by against the big heavyweights because of his remarkable skill but he was not as big of a threat as a puncher as he was when he fought at 160-175.

ßringer
04-16-2009, 08:42 PM
I'd favor Frazier to get the TKO in the 15th round.

No disrespect to Rocky, but he's been dropped by much lesser punchers than the guys who've dropped Frazier. And he's never tasted power like Frazier's, either.

I think he woud be shocked at the amount of fight in Smokin' Joe, and how powerful his left hook was.

Both men would hit the canvas at least once.

But Frazier would continue to hammer on Marciano throughout the course of the fight, ultimately scoring a TKO in the 15th and final round.

Marciano is not the god like figure his followers make him out to be, and Frazier would eventually find him out.

Thunder Lips
04-16-2009, 09:23 PM
"Up and down"? As far as I know he just went up, up to take a shot at the more prestigious higher weight Boxing titles like many contenders do. He was just much more successful at it than others.

He did pack a good punch but he was no Joe Frazier.


No. During his peak run in the 50s, Moore effortlessly skipped huge margins in weight often over very short periods of time while staying healthy. He was an active Light Heavyweight Champion while chasing the Heavyweight rankings over a couple of years.

1955-09-21 188 Rocky Marciano 188¼ 48-0-0
1955-06-22 175 Bobo Olson 170¼ 69-6-0
1955-05-02 196½ Nino Valdes 209½ 32-9-3
1954-08-11 173 Harold Johnson 172½ 47-5-0
1954-06-07 189¼ Bert Whitehurst 186½ 18-3-0
1954-03-09 190¼ Bob Baker 209 31-4-1
1954-01-27 175 Joey Maxim 174¼ 79-20-4

Even after Marciano:

1957-09-20 175 Tony Anthony 172 31-4-1
1957-06-02 189 Alain Cherville 200 20-5-0
1957-05-01 206½ Hans Kalbfell 210½ 16-1-0
1956-11-30 187¾ Floyd Patterson 182¼ 30-1-0

"Moore even managed to maintain a shroud over something as simple as a diet.

He loved to tell listeners it was an aborigine diet, which he had obtained in Australia from one of the natives in exchange for a sweater. And he said it began every day with a drink of hot sauerkraut juice.

Those who knew him say it wasn’t quite so mysterious. When in training, Moore would simply bite into a piece of meat, suck out the juice and then spit it out."


Hard to say who hit harder, different style of puncher anyways. Frazier was a banger that broke fighters down with heavy body shots and jumping hooks while Moore picked his opponents apart with excellent timing and accuracy. Both could bang with much bigger men though Moore usually overcame the largest margin of weight and size difference. I honestly don't see Frazier stopping Marciano though and vise versa. Both have been hurt and knocked down in their careers but under different circumstances. They were both amazingly durable, not only able to take a good punch but sustained punishment from good punchers. Not many could do what they did against Walcott and Ali.

Jesse Pinkman
04-16-2009, 11:08 PM
Two smaller HW legends. An intriguing match up, surely?




Id like to have seen that one..

Greatwhitehope
04-17-2009, 12:53 AM
Too close to call, I'm leaning slightly towards Marciano though.