good news- we've been beatin the ****ing piss outt've em
bad news- once again, the world's upset with us


when you are a prisoner of war you have no rights. you have no liberty, you get no respect, you're lucky to be even alive. so if that means that you're kicked around, not allowed clothing for a few days, and treated like a piece of **** then WELCOME TO REALITY.
you stupid ****s apparently didn't think about that when you were blindly shooting at us in support of a dictator that treated you & your families 10 times ****tier but this all kinda goes along the whole WAR THING.

pow's get ****ed up while they're detained, people get shot out in the battlefields, tanks & planes blow up, and war, in general IS in fact, hell. when you participate in it, you should kinda understand that it's not exactly a walk in the park. every nation has had millions of their people go through the same process ever since cavemen tribes were battling on who gets the bigger buffalo hides.

that includes our pow's too but apparently nobody really gives a **** about them because the media feels a little more comfortable jumpin on the hippie bandwagon cause more viewers stay tuned when they feel they're being empowered and informed on how this IS in fact a war over oil and not liberty. simply put, American pow's aren't entertaining enough for advertisers.

forgive me for not sympathizing for the lack of liberty given to some arab ****** who was just shooting at our soldiers with no remorse THEN and no remorse NOW. go allah!
and torture is not depriving someone of clothing. torture is dousing someone in gasoline, lighting them on fire for 20 seconds, putting them out in saltwater, and grinding the wounds in with a hard-grained piece of ****ing sandpaper, allowing time to heal, only to repeat the same process a couple days later while waving pictures of their family in front of them the whole time just to remind them that they will NEVER get their lifestyle back.
that's what we should be doing.

concluding remarks:
humanitarians please **** off. you don't know war so stay the **** out of it.
the only wrong our nation is doing is apologizing for torturing these people. me, personally, i'd not only be validating it, hell i'd be videotaping it and airing it on pay per view for epic follow ups to the ufc (GO KEN!!).
that's right you hippy ****s. i'm back.

Bush is a retarded child and you are the ***** of his propaganda machine. Although, I'm tempted to assume that you don't mean a word of it and that you are a poor quality troll.

You'd have to be some kind of special case to actually believe any of that ****e.

Originally posted by Purity
good news- we've been beatin the ****ing piss outt've em
bad news- once again, the world's upset with us


when you are a prisoner of war you have no rights. you have no liberty, you get no respect, you're lucky to be even alive. so if that means that you're kicked around, not allowed clothing for a few days, and treated like a piece of **** then WELCOME TO REALITY.
you stupid ****s apparently didn't think about that when you were blindly shooting at us in support of a dictator that treated you & your families 10 times ****tier but this all kinda goes along the whole WAR THING.

pow's get ****ed up while they're detained, people get shot out in the battlefields, tanks & planes blow up, and war, in general IS in fact, hell. when you participate in it, you should kinda understand that it's not exactly a walk in the park. every nation has had millions of their people go through the same process ever since cavemen tribes were battling on who gets the bigger buffalo hides.

that includes our pow's too but apparently nobody really gives a **** about them because the media feels a little more comfortable jumpin on the hippie bandwagon cause more viewers stay tuned when they feel they're being empowered and informed on how this IS in fact a war over oil and not liberty. simply put, American pow's aren't entertaining enough for advertisers.

forgive me for not sympathizing for the lack of liberty given to some arab ****** who was just shooting at our soldiers with no remorse THEN and no remorse NOW. go allah!
and torture is not depriving someone of clothing. torture is dousing someone in gasoline, lighting them on fire for 20 seconds, putting them out in saltwater, and grinding the wounds in with a hard-grained piece of ****ing sandpaper, allowing time to heal, only to repeat the same process a couple days later while waving pictures of their family in front of them the whole time just to remind them that they will NEVER get their lifestyle back.
that's what we should be doing.

concluding remarks:
humanitarians please **** off. you don't know war so stay the **** out of it.
the only wrong our nation is doing is apologizing for torturing these people. me, personally, i'd not only be validating it, hell i'd be videotaping it and airing it on pay per view for epic follow ups to the ufc (GO KEN!!).
that's right you hippy ****s. i'm back.

Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War
Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of
International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva
from 21 April to 12 August, 1949
entry into force 21 October 1950
PART I

GENERAL PROVISIONS

Article 1

The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for the present Convention in all circumstances.

Article 2

In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.

The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance.

Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.

Article 3

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

2. The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8, 10, 15, 30, fifth paragraph, 58-67, 92, 126 and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

C. This Article shall in no way affect the status of medical personnel and chaplains as provided for in Article 33 of the present Convention.

Article 5

The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation.

Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

Article 6

In addition to the agreements expressly provided for in Articles 10, 23, 28, 33, 60, 65, 66, 67, 72, 73, 75, 109, 110, 118, 119, 122 and 132, the High Contracting Parties may conclude other special agreements for all matters concerning which they may deem it suitable to make separate provision. No special agreement shall adversely affect the situation of prisoners of war, as defined by the present Convention, nor restrict the rights which it confers upon them.

Prisoners of war shall continue to have the benefit of such agreements as long as the Convention is applicable to them, except where express provisions to the contrary are contained in the aforesaid or in subsequent agreements, or where more favourable measures have been taken with regard to them by one or other of the Parties to the conflict.

Article 7

Prisoners of war may in no circumstances renounce in part or in entirety the rights secured to them by the present Convention, and by the special agreements referred to in the foregoing Article, if such there be.

Article 8

The present Convention shall be applied with the cooperation and under the scrutiny of the Protecting Powers whose duty it is to safeguard the interests of the Parties to the conflict. For this purpose, the Protecting Powers may appoint, apart from their diplomatic or consular staff, delegates from amongst their own nationals or the nationals of other neutral Powers. The said delegates shall be subject to the approval of the Power with which they are to carry out their duties.

The Parties to the conflict shall facilitate to the greatest extent possible the task of the representatives or delegates of the Protecting Powers.

The representatives or delegates of the Protecting Powers shall not in any case exceed their mission under the present Convention. They shall, in particular, take account of the imperative necessities of security of the State wherein they carry out their duties.

Article 9

The provisions of the present Convention constitute no obstacle to the humanitarian activities which the International Committee of the Red Cross or any other impartial humanitarian organization may, subject to the consent of the Parties to the conflict concerned, undertake for the protection of prisoners of war and for their relief.

Article 10

The High Contracting Parties may at any time agree to entrust to an organization which offers all guarantees of impartiality and efficacy the duties incumbent on the Protecting Powers by virtue of the present Convention.

When prisoners of war do not benefit or cease to benefit, no matter for what reason, by the activities of a Protecting Power or of an organization provided for in the first paragraph above, the Detaining Power shall request a neutral State, or such an organization, to undertake the functions performed under the present Convention by a Protecting Power designated by the Parties to a conflict.

If protection cannot be arranged accordingly, the Detaining Power shall request or shall accept, subject to the provisions of this Article, the offer of the services of a humanitarian organization, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, to assume the humanitarian functions performed by Protecting Powers under the present Convention.

Any neutral Power or any organization invited by the Power concerned or offering itself for these purposes, shall be required to act with a sense of responsibility towards the Party to the conflict on which persons protected by the present Convention depend, and shall be required to furnish sufficient assurances that it is in a position to undertake the appropriate functions and to discharge them impartially.

No derogation from the preceding provisions shall be made by special agreements between Powers one of which is restricted, even temporarily, in its freedom to negotiate with the other Power or its allies by reason of military events, more particularly where the whole, or a substantial part, of the territory of the said Power is occupied.

Whenever in the present Convention mention is made of a Protecting Power, such mention applies to substitute organizations in the sense of the present Article.

Article 11

In cases where they deem it advisable in the interest of protected persons, particularly in cases of disagreement between the Parties to the conflict as to the application or interpretation of the provisions of the present Convention, the Protecting Powers shall lend their good offices with a view to settling the disagreement.

For this purpose, each of the Protecting Powers may, either at the invitation of one Party or on its own initiative, propose to the Parties to the conflict a meeting of their representatives, and in particular of the authorities responsible for prisoners of war, possibly on neutral territory suitably chosen. The Parties to the conflict shall be bound to give effect to the proposals made to them for this purpose. The Protecting Powers may, if necessary, propose for approval by the Parties to the conflict a person belonging to a neutral Power, or delegated by the International Committee of the Red Cross, who shall be invited to take part in such a meeting.

PART II

GENERAL PROTECTION OF PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 12

Prisoners of war are in the hands of the enemy Power, but not of the individuals or military units who have captured them. Irrespective of the individual responsibilities that may exist, the Detaining Power is responsible for the treatment given them.

Prisoners of war may only be transferred by the Detaining Power to a Power which is a party to the Convention and after the Detaining Power has satisfied itself of the willingness and ability of such transferee Power to apply the Convention. When prisoners of war are transferred under such circumstances, responsibility for the application of the Convention rests on the Power accepting them while they are in its custody.

Nevertheless if that Power fails to carry out the provisions of the Convention in any important respect, the Power by whom the prisoners of war were transferred shall, upon being notified by the Protecting Power, take effective measures to correct the situation or shall request the return of the prisoners of war. Such requests must be complied with.

Article 13

Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

Article 14

Prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for their persons and their honour. Women shall be treated with all the regard due to their sex and shall in all cases benefit by treatment as favourable as that granted to men. Prisoners of war shall retain the full civil capacity which they enjoyed at the time of their capture. The Detaining Power may not restrict the exercise, either within or without its own territory, of the rights such capacity confers except in so far as the captivity requires.

Article 15

The Power detaining prisoners of war shall be bound to provide free of charge for their maintenance and for the medical attention required by their state of health.

Article 16

Taking into consideration the provisions of the present Convention relating to rank and sex, and subject to any privileged treatment which may be accorded to them by reason of their state of health, age or professional qualifications, all prisoners of war shall be treated alike by the Detaining Power, without any adverse distinction based on race, nationality, religious belief or political opinions, or any other distinction founded on similar criteria.

PART III

CAPTIVITY

SECTION I

BEGINNING OF CAPTIVITY

Article 17

Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information. If he wilfully infringes this rule, he may render himself liable to a restriction of the privileges accorded to his rank or status.

Each Party to a conflict is required to furnish the persons under its jurisdiction who are liable to become prisoners of war, with an identity card showing the owner's surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or serial number or equivalent information, and date of birth. The identity card may, furthermore, bear the signature or the fingerprints, or both, of the owner, and may bear, as well, any other information the Party to the conflict may wish to add concerning persons belonging to its armed forces. As far as possible the card shall measure 6.5 x 10 cm. and shall be issued in duplicate. The identity card shall be shown by the prisoner of war upon demand, but may in no case be taken away from him.

No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.

Prisoners of war who, owing to their physical or mental condition, are unable to state their identity, shall be handed over to the medical service. The identity of such prisoners shall be established by all possible means, subject to the provisions of the preceding paragraph.

The questioning of prisoners of war shall be carried out in a language which they understand.

Article 18

All effects and articles of personal use, except arms, horses, military equipment and military documents shall remain in the possession of prisoners of war, likewise their metal helmets and gas masks and like articles issued for personal protection. Effects and articles used for their clothing or feeding shall likewise remain in their possession, even if such effects and articles belong to their regulation military equipment.

At no time should prisoners of war be without identity documents. The Detaining Power shall supply such documents to prisoners of war who possess none.

Badges of rank and nationality, decorations and articles having above all a personal or sentimental value may not be taken from prisoners of war.

Sums of money carried by prisoners of war may not be taken away from them except by order of an officer, and after the amount and particulars of the owner have been recorded in a special register and an itemized receipt has been given, legibly inscribed with the name, rank and unit of the person issuing the said receipt. Sums in the currency of the Detaining Power, or which are changed into such currency at the prisoner's request, shall be placed to the credit of the prisoner's account as provided in Article 64.

The Detaining Power may withdraw articles of value from prisoners of war only for reasons of security; when such articles are withdrawn, the procedure laid down for sums of money impounded shall apply.

Such objects, likewise the sums taken away in any currency other than that of the Detaining Power and the conversion of which has not been asked for by the owners, shall be kept in the custody of the Detaining Power and shall be returned in their initial shape to prisoners of war at the end of their captivity.

Article 19

Prisoners of war shall be evacuated, as soon as possible after their capture, to camps situated in an area far enough from the combat zone for them to be out of danger.

Only those prisoners of war who, owing to wounds or sickness, would run greater risks by being evacuated than by remaining where they are, may be temporarily kept back in a danger zone.

Prisoners of war shall not be unnecessarily exposed to danger while awaiting evacuation from a fighting zone.

Article 20

The evacuation of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely and in conditions similar to those for the forces of the Detaining Power in their changes of station.

The Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war who are being evacuated with sufficient food and potable water, and with the necessary clothing and medical attention. The Detaining Power shall take all suitable precautions to ensure their safety during evacuation, and shall establish as soon as possible a list of the prisoners of war who are evacuated.

If prisoners of war must, during evacuation, pass through transit camps, their stay in such camps shall be as brief as possible.

SECTION II

INTERNMENT OF PRISONERS OF WAR

Chapter I

GENERAL OBSERVATIONS

Article 21

The Detaining Power may subject prisoners of war to internment. It may impose on them the obligation of not leaving, beyond certain limits, the camp where they are interned, or if the said camp is fenced in, of not going outside its perimeter. Subject to the provisions of the present Convention relative to penal and disciplinary sanctions, prisoners of war may not be held in close confinement except where necessary to safeguard their health and then only during the continuation of the circumstances which make such confinement necessary.

Prisoners of war may be partially or wholly released on parole or promise, in so far as is allowed by the laws of the Power on which they depend. Such measures shall be taken particularly in cases where this may contribute to the improvement of their state of health. No prisoner of war shall be compelled to accept liberty on parole or promise.

Upon the outbreak of hostilities, each Party to the conflict shall notify the adverse Party of the laws and regulations allowing or forbidding its own nationals to accept liberty on parole or promise. Prisoners of war who are paroled or who have given their promise in conformity with the laws and regulations so notified, are bound on their personal honour scrupulously to fulfil, both towards the Power on which they depend and towards the Power which has captured them, the engagements of their paroles or promises. In such cases, the Power on which they depend is bound neither to require nor to accept from them any service incompatible with the parole or promise given.

Article 22

Prisoners of war may be interned only in premises located on land and affording every guarantee of hygiene and healthfulness. Except in particular cases which are justified by the interest of the prisoners themselves, they shall not be interned in penitentiaries.

Prisoners of war interned in unhealthy areas, or where the climate is injurious for them, shall be removed as soon as possible to a more favourable climate.

The Detaining Power shall assemble prisoners of war in camps or camp compounds according to their nationality, language and customs, provided that such prisoners shall not be separated from prisoners of war belonging to the armed forces with which they were serving at the time of their capture, except with their consent.

Article 23

No prisoner of war may at any time be sent to or detained in areas where he may be exposed to the fire of the combat zone, nor may his presence be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

Prisoners of war shall have shelters against air bombardment and other hazards of war, to the same extent as the local civilian population. With the exception of those engaged in the protection of their quarters against the aforesaid hazards, they may enter such shelters as soon as possible after the giving of the alarm. Any other protective measure taken in favour of the population shall also apply to them.

Detaining Powers shall give the Powers concerned, through the intermediary of the Protecting Powers, all useful information regarding the geographical location of prisoner of war camps.

Whenever military considerations permit, prisoner of war camps shall be indicated in the day-time by the letters PW or PG, placed so as to be clearly visible from the air. The Powers concerned may, however, agree upon any other system of marking. Only prisoner of war camps shall be marked as such.

Article 24

Transit or screening camps of a permanent kind shall be fitted out under conditions similar to those described in the present Section, and the prisoners therein shall have the same treatment as in other camps.

Chapter II

QUARTERS, FOOD AND CLOTHING OF PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 25

Prisoners of war shall be quartered under conditions as favourable as those for the forces of the Detaining Power who are billeted in the same area. The said conditions shall make allowance for the habits and customs of the prisoners and shall in no case be prejudicial to their health.

The foregoing provisions shall apply in particular to the dormitories of prisoners of war as regards both total surface and minimum cubic space, and the general installations, bedding and blankets.

The premises provided for the use of prisoners of war individually or collectively, shall be entirely protected from dampness and adequately heated and lighted, in particular between dusk and lights out. All precautions must be taken against the danger of fire.

In any camps in which women prisoners of war, as well as men, are accommodated, separate dormitories shall be provided for them.

Article 26

The basic daily food rations shall be sufficient in quantity, quality and variety to keep prisoners of war in good health and to prevent loss of weight or the development of nutritional deficiencies. Account shall also be taken of the habitual diet of the prisoners.

The Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war who work with such additional rations as are necessary for the labour on which they are employed.

Sufficient drinking water shall be supplied to prisoners of war. The use of tobacco shall be permitted.

Prisoners of war shall, as far as possible, be associated with the preparation of their meals; they may be employed for that purpose in the kitchens. Furthermore, they shall be given the means of preparing, themselves, the additional food in their possession.

Adequate premises shall be provided for messing.

Collective disciplinary measures affecting food are prohibited.

Article 27

Clothing, underwear and footwear shall be supplied to prisoners of war in sufficient quantities by the Detaining Power, which shall make allowance for the climate of the region where the prisoners are detained. Uniforms of enemy armed forces captured by the Detaining Power should, if suitable for the climate, be made available to clothe prisoners of war.

The regular replacement and repair of the above articles shall be assured by the Detaining Power. In addition, prisoners of war who work shall receive appropriate clothing, wherever the nature of the work demands.

Article 28

Canteens shall be installed in all camps, where prisoners of war may procure foodstuffs, soap and tobacco and ordinary articles in daily use. The tariff shall never be in excess of local market prices. The profits made by camp canteens shall be used for the benefit of the prisoners; a special fund shall be created for this purpose. The prisoners' representative shall have the right to collaborate in the management of the canteen and of this fund.

When a camp is closed down, the credit balance of the special fund shall be handed to an international welfare organization, to be employed for the benefit of prisoners of war of the same nationality as those who have contributed to the fund. In case of a general repatriation, such profits shall be kept by the Detaining Power, subject to any agreement to the contrary between the Powers concerned.

Chapter III

HYGIENE AND MEDICAL ATTENTION

Article 29

The Detaining Power shall be bound to take all sanitary measures necessary to ensure the cleanliness and healthfulness of camps and to prevent epidemics.

Prisoners of war shall have for their use, day and night, conveniences which conform to the rules of hygiene and are maintained in a constant state of cleanliness. In any camps in which women prisoners of war are accommodated, separate conveniences shall be provided for them.

Also, apart from the baths and showers with which the camps shall be furnished, prisoners of war shall be provided with sufficient water and soap for their personal toilet and for washing their personal laundry; the necessary installations, facilities and time shall be granted them for that purpose.

Article 30

Every camp shall have an adequate infirmary where prisoners of war may have the attention they require, as well as appropriate diet. Isolation wards shall, if necessary, be set aside for cases of contagious or mental disease.

Prisoners of war suffering from serious disease, or whose condition necessitates special treatment, a surgical operation or hospital care, must be admitted to any military or civilian medical unit where such treatment can be given, even if their repatriation is contemplated in the near future. Special facilities shall be afforded for the care to be given to the disabled, in particular to the blind, and for their rehabilitation, pending repatriation.

Prisoners of war shall have the attention, preferably, of medical personnel of the Power on which they depend and, if possible, of their nationality.

Prisoners of war may not be prevented from presenting themselves to the medical authorities for examination. The detaining authorities shall, upon request, issue to every prisoner who has undergone treatment, an official certificate indicating the nature of his illness or injury, and the duration and kind of treatment received. A duplicate of this certificate shall be forwarded to the Central Prisoners of War Agency.

The costs of treatment, including those of any apparatus necessary for the maintenance of prisoners of war in good health, particularly dentures and other artificial appliances, and spectacles, shall be borne by the Detaining Power.

Article 31

Medical inspections of prisoners of war shall be held at least once a month. They shall include the checking and the recording of the weight of each prisoner of war. Their purpose shall be, in particular, to supervise the general state of health, nutrition and cleanliness of prisoners and to detect contagious diseases, especially tuberculosis, malaria and venereal disease. For this purpose the most efficient methods available shall be employed, e.g. periodic mass miniature radiography for the early detection of tuberculosis.

Article 32

Prisoners of war who, though not attached to the medical service of their armed forces, are physicians, surgeons, dentists, nurses or medical orderlies, may be required by the Detaining Power to exercise their medical functions in the interests of prisoners of war dependent on the same Power. In that case they shall continue to be prisoners of war, but shall receive the same treatment as corresponding medical personnel retained by the Detaining Power. They shall be exempted from any other work under Article 49.

Chapter IV

MEDICAL PERSONNEL AND CHAPLAINS RETAINED TO ASSIST PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 33

Members of the medical personnel and chaplains while retained by the Detaining Power with a view to assisting prisoners of war, shall not be considered as prisoners of war. They shall, however, receive as a minimum the benefits and protection of the present Convention, and shall also be granted all facilities necessary to provide for the medical care of, and religious inistration to, prisoners of war.

They shall continue to exercise their medical and spiritual functions for the benefit of prisoners of war, preferably those belonging to the armed forces upon which they depend, within the scope of the military laws and regulations of the Detaining Power and under the control of its competent services, in accordance with their professional etiquette. They shall also benefit by the following facilities in the exercise of their medical or spiritual functions:

(a) They shall be authorized to visit periodically prisoners of war situated in working detachments or in hospitals outside the camp. For this purpose, the Detaining Power shall place at their disposal the necessary means of transport.

(b) The senior medical officer in each camp shall be responsible to the camp military authorities for everything connected with the activities of retained medical personnel. For this purpose, Parties to the conflict shall agree at the outbreak of hostilities on the subject of the corresponding ranks of the medical personnel, including that of societies mentioned in Article 26 of the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field of August 12, 1949. This senior medical officer, as well as chaplains, shall have the right to deal with the competent authorities of the camp on all questions relating to their duties. Such authorities shall afford them all necessary facilities for correspondence relating to these questions.

(c) Although they shall be subject to the internal discipline of the camp in which they are retained, such personnel may not be compelled to carry out any work other than that concerned with their medical or religious duties.

During hostilities, the Parties to the conflict shall agree concerning the possible relief of retained personnel and shall settle the procedure to be followed.

None of the preceding provisions shall relieve the Detaining Power of its obligations with regard to prisoners of war from the medical or spiritual point of view.

Chapter V

RELIGIOUS, INTELLECTUAL AND PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES

Article 34

Prisoners of war shall enjoy complete latitude in the exercise of their religious duties, including attendance at the service of their faith, on condition that they comply with the disciplinary routine prescribed by the military authorities.

Adequate premises shall be provided where religious services may be held.

Article 35

Chaplains who fall into the hands of the enemy Power and who remain or are retained with a view to assisting prisoners of war, shall be allowed to minister to them and to exercise freely their ministry amongst prisoners of war of the same religion, in accordance with their religious conscience. They shall be allocated among the various camps and labour detachments containing prisoners of war belonging to the same forces, speaking the same language or practising the same religion. They shall enjoy the necessary facilities, including the means of transport provided for in Article 33, for visiting the prisoners of war outside their camp. They shall be free to correspond, subject to censorship, on matters concerning their religious duties with the ecclesiastical authorities in the country of detention and with international religious organizations. Letters and cards which they may send for this purpose shall be in addition to the quota provided for in Article 71.

Article 36

Prisoners of war who are ministers of religion, without having officiated as chaplains to their own forces, shall be at liberty, whatever their denomination, to minister freely to the members of their community. For this purpose, they shall receive the same treatment as the chaplains retained by the Detaining Power. They shall not be obliged to do any other work.

Article 37

When prisoners of war have not the assistance of a retained chaplain or of a prisoner of war minister of their faith, a minister belonging to the prisoners' or a similar denomination, or in his absence a qualified layman, if such a course is feasible from a confessional point of view, shall be appointed, at the request of the prisoners concerned, to fill this office. This appointment, subject to the approval of the Detaining Power, shall take place with the agreement of the community of prisoners concerned and, wherever necessary, with the approval of the local religious authorities of the same faith. The person thus appointed shall comply with all regulations established by the Detaining Power in the interests of discipline and military security.

Article 38

While respecting the individual preferences of every prisoner, the Detaining Power shall encourage the practice of intellectual, educational, and recreational pursuits, sports and games amongst prisoners, and shall take the measures necessary to ensure the exercise thereof by providing them with adequate premises and necessary equipment.

Prisoners shall have opportunities for taking physical exercise, including sports and games, and for being out of doors. Sufficient open spaces shall be provided for this purpose in all camps.

Chapter VI

DISCIPLINE

Article 39

Every prisoner of war camp shall be put under the immediate authority of a responsible commissioned officer belonging to the regular armed forces of the Detaining Power. Such officer shall have in his possession a copy of the present Convention; he shall ensure that its provisions are known to the camp staff and the guard and shall be responsible, under the direction of his government, for its application.

Prisoners of war, with the exception of officers, must salute and show to all officers of the Detaining Power the external marks of respect provided for by the regulations applying in their own forces.

Officer prisoners of war are bound to salute only officers of a higher rank of the Detaining Power; they must, however, salute the camp commander regardless of his rank.

Article 40

The wearing of badges of rank and nationality, as well as of decorations, shall be permitted.

Article 41

In every camp the text of the present Convention and its Annexes and the contents of any special agreement provided for in Article 6, shall be posted, in the prisoners' own language, at places where all may read them. Copies shall be supplied, on request, to the prisoners who cannot have access to the copy which has been posted.

Regulations, orders, notices and publications of every kind relating to the conduct of prisoners of war shall be issued to them in a language which they understand. Such regulations, orders and publications shall be posted in the manner described above and copies shall be handed to the prisoners' representative. Every order and command addressed to prisoners of war individually must likewise be given in a language which they understand.

Article 42

The use of weapons against prisoners of war, especially against those who are escaping or attempting to escape, shall constitute an extreme measure, which shall always be preceded by warnings appropriate to the circumstances.

Chapter VII

RANK OF PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 43

Upon the outbreak of hostilities, the Parties to the conflict shall communicate to one another the titles and ranks of all the persons mentioned in Article 4 of the present Convention, in order to ensure equality of treatment between prisoners of equivalent rank. Titles and ranks which are subsequently created shall form the subject of similar communications.

The Detaining Power shall recognize promotions in rank which have been accorded to prisoners of war and which have been duly notified by the Power on which these prisoners depend.

Article 44

Officers and prisoners of equivalent status shall be treated with the regard due to their rank and age.

In order to ensure service in officers' camps, other ranks of the same armed forces who, as far as possible, speak the same language, shall be assigned in sufficient numbers, account being taken of the rank of officers and prisoners of equivalent status. Such orderlies shall not be required to perform any other work.

Supervision of the mess by the officers themselves shall be facilitated in every way.

Article 45

Prisoners of war other than officers and prisoners of equivalent status shall be treated with the regard due to their rank and age.

Supervision of the mess by the prisoners themselves shall be facilitated in every way.

Chapter VIII

TRANSFER OF PRISONERS OF WAR AFTER THEIR ARRIVAL IN CAMP

Article 46

The Detaining Power, when deciding upon the transfer of prisoners of war, shall take into account the interests of the prisoners themselves, more especially so as not to increase the difficulty of their repatriation.

The transfer of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely and in conditions not less favourable than those under which the forces of the Detaining Power are transferred. Account shall always be taken of the climatic conditions to which the prisoners of war are accustomed and the conditions of transfer shall in no case be prejudicial to their health.

The Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war during transfer with sufficient food and drinking water to keep them in good health, likewise with the necessary clothing, shelter and medical attention. The Detaining Power shall take adequate precautions especially in case of transport by sea or by air, to ensure their safety during transfer, and shall draw up a complete list of all transferred prisoners before their departure.

Article 47

Sick or wounded prisoners of war shall not be transferred as long as their recovery may be endangered by the journey, unless their safety imperatively demands it.

If the combat zone draws closer to a camp, the prisoners of war in the said camp shall not be transferred unless their transfer can be carried out in adequate conditions of safety, or if they are exposed to greater risks by remaining on the spot than by being transferred.

Article 48

In the event of transfer, prisoners of war shall be officially advised of their departure and of their new postal address. Such notifications shall be given in time for them to pack their luggage and inform their next of kin.

They shall be allowed to take with them their personal effects, and the correspondence and parcels which have arrived for them. The weight of such baggage may be limited, if the conditions of transfer so require, to what each prisoner can reasonably carry, which shall in no case be more than twenty-five kilograms per head.

Mail and parcels addressed to their former camp shall be forwarded to them without delay. The camp commander shall take, in agreement with the prisoners' representative, any measures needed to ensure the transport of the prisoners' community property and of the luggage they are unable to take with them in consequence of restrictions imposed by virtue of the second paragraph of this Article.

The costs of transfers shall be borne by the Detaining Power.

SECTION III

LABOUR OF PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 49

The Detaining Power may utilize the labour of prisoners of war who are physically fit, taking into account their age, sex, rank and physical aptitude, and with a view particularly to maintaining them in a good state of physical and mental health.

Non-commissioned officers who are prisoners of war shall only be required to do supervisory work. Those not so required may ask for other suitable work which shall, so far as possible, be found for them.

If officers or persons of equivalent status ask for suitable work, it shall be found for them, so far as possible, but they may in no circumstances be compelled to work.

Article 50

Besides work connected with camp administration, installation or maintenance, prisoners of war may be compelled to do only such work as is included in the following classes:

(a) Agriculture;

(b) Industries connected with the production or the extraction of raw materials, and manufacturing industries, with the exception of metallurgical, machinery and chemical industries; public works and building operations which have no military character or purpose;

(c) Transport and handling of stores which are not military in character or purpose;

(d) Commercial business, and arts and crafts;

(e) Domestic service;

(f) Public utility services having no military character or purpose.

Should the above provisions be infringed, prisoners of war shall be allowed to exercise their right of complaint, in conformity with Article 78.

Article 51

Prisoners of war must be granted suitable working conditions, especially as regards accommodation, food, clothing and equipment; such conditions shall not be inferior to those enjoyed by nationals of the Detaining Power employed in similar work; account shall also be taken of climatic conditions.

The Detaining Power, in utilizing the labour of prisoners of war, shall ensure that in areas in which prisoners are employed, the national legislation concerning the protection of labour, and, more particularly, the regulations for the safety of workers, are duly applied.

Prisoners of war shall receive training and be provided with the means of protection suitable to the work they will have to do and similar to those accorded to the nationals of the Detaining Power. Subject to the provisions of Article 52, prisoners may be submitted to the normal risks run by these civilian workers.

Conditions of labour shall in no case be rendered more arduous by disciplinary measures.

Article 52

Unless he be a volunteer, no prisoner of war may be employed on labour which is of an unhealthy or dangerous nature.

No prisoner of war shall be assigned to labour which would be looked upon as humiliating for a member of the Detaining Power's own forces.

The removal of mines or similar devices shall be considered as dangerous labour.

Article 53

The duration of the daily labour of prisoners of war, including the time of the journey to and fro, shall not be excessive, and must in no case exceed that permitted for civilian workers in the district, who are nationals of the Detaining Power and employed on the same work.

Prisoners of war must be allowed, in the middle of the day's work, a rest of not less than one hour. This rest will be the same as that to which workers of the Detaining Power are entitled, if the latter is of longer duration. They shall be allowed in addition a rest of twenty-four consecutive hours every week, preferably on Sunday or the day of rest in their country of origin. Furthermore, every prisoner who has worked for one year shall be granted a rest of eight consecutive days, during which his working pay shall be paid him.

If methods of labour such as piece-work are employed, the length of the working period shall not be rendered excessive thereby.

Article 54

The working pay due to prisoners of war shall be fixed in accordance with the provisions of Article 62 of the present Convention.

Prisoners of war who sustain accidents in connection with work, or who contract a disease in the course, or in consequence of their work, shall receive all the care their condition may require. The Detaining Power shall furthermore deliver to such prisoners of war a medical certificate enabling them to submit their claims to the Power on which they depend, and shall send a duplicate to the Central Prisoners of War Agency provided for in Article 123.

Article 55

The fitness of prisoners of war for work shall be periodically verified by medical examinations at least once a month. The examinations shall have particular regard to the nature of the work which prisoners of war are required to do.
If any prisoner of war considers himself incapable of working, he shall be permitted to appear before the medical authorities of his camp. Physicians or surgeons may recommend that the prisoners who are, in their opinion, unfit for work, be exempted therefrom.
Article 56






The organization and administration of labour detachments shall be similar to those of prisoner of war camps.

Every labour detachment shall remain under the control of and administratively part of a prisoner of war camp. The military authorities and the commander of the said camp shall be responsible, under the direction of their government, for the observance of the provisions of the present Convention in labour detachments.

The camp commander shall keep an up-to-date record of the labour detachments dependent on his camp, and shall communicate it to the delegates of the Protecting Power, of the International Committee of the Red Cross, or of other agencies giving relief to prisoners of war, who may visit the camp.

Article 57

The treatment of prisoners of war who work for private persons, even if the latter are responsible for guarding and protecting them, shall not be inferior to that which is provided for by the present Convention. The Detaining Power, the military authorities and the commander of the camp to which such prisoners belong shall be entirely responsible for the maintenance, care, treatment, and payment of the working pay of such prisoners of war.

Such prisoners of war shall have the right to remain in communication with the prisoners' representatives in the camps on which they depend.

SECTION IV

FINANCIAL RESOURCES OF PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 58

Upon the outbreak of hostilities, and pending an arrangement on this matter with the Protecting Power, the Detaining Power may determine the maximum amount of money in cash or in any similar form, that prisoners may have in their possession. Any amount in excess, which was properly in their possession and which has been taken or withheld from them, shall be placed to their account, together with any monies deposited by them, and shall not be converted into any other currency without their consent.

If prisoners of war are permitted to purchase services or commodities outside the camp against payment in cash, such payments shall be made by the prisoner himself or by the camp administration who will charge them to the accounts of the prisoners concerned. The Detaining Power will establish the necessary rules in this respect.

Article 59

Cash which was taken from prisoners of war, in accordance with Article 18, at the time of their capture, and which is in the currency of the Detaining Power, shall be placed to their separate accounts, in accordance with the provisions of Article 64 of the present Section.

The amounts, in the currency of the Detaining Power, due to the conversion of sums in other currencies that are taken from the prisoners of war at the same time, shall also be credited to their separate accounts.

Article 60

The Detaining Power shall grant all prisoners of war a monthly advance of pay, the amount of which shall be fixed by conversion, into the currency of the said Power, of the following amounts:

Category I: Prisoners ranking below sergeant: eight Swiss francs.

Category II: Sergeants and other non-commissioned officers, or prisoners of equivalent rank: twelve Swiss francs.

Category III: Warrant officers and commissioned officers below the rank of major or prisoners of equivalent rank: fifty Swiss francs.

Category IV: Majors, lieutenant-colonels, colonels or prisoners of equivalent rank: sixty Swiss francs.

Category V: General officers or prisoners of equivalent rank: seventy-five Swiss francs.

However, the Parties to the conflict concerned may by special agreement modify the amount of advances of pay due to prisoners of the preceding categories.

Furthermore, if the amounts indicated in the first paragraph above would be unduly high compared with the pay of the Detaining Power's armed forces or would, for any reason, seriously embarrass the Detaining Power, then, pending the conclusion of a special agreement with the Power on which the prisoners depend to vary the amounts indicated above, the Detaining Power:

(a) Shall continue to credit the accounts of the prisoners with the amounts indicated in the first paragraph above;

(b) May temporarily limit the amount made available from these advances of pay to prisoners of war for their own use, to sums which are reasonable, but which, for Category I, shall never be inferior to the amount that the Detaining Power gives to the members of its own armed forces.

The reasons for any limitations will be given without delay to the Protecting Power.

Article 61

The Detaining Power shall accept for distribution as supplementary pay to prisoners of war sums which the Power on which the prisoners depend may forward to them, on condition that the sums to be paid shall be the same for each prisoner of the same category, shall be payable to all prisoners of that category depending on that Power, and shall be placed in their separate accounts, at the earliest opportunity, in accordance with the provisions of Article 64. Such supplementary pay shall not relieve the Detaining Power of any obligation under this Convention.

Article 62

Prisoners of war shall be paid a fair working rate of pay by the detaining authorities direct. The rate shall be fixed by the said authorities, but shall at no time be less than one-fourth of one Swiss franc for a full working day. The Detaining Power shall inform prisoners of war, as well as the Power on which they depend, through the intermediary of the Protecting Power, of the rate of daily working pay that it has fixed.

Working pay shall likewise be paid by the detaining authorities to prisoners of war permanently detailed to duties or to a skilled or semi-skilled occupation in connection with the administration, installation or maintenance of camps, and to the prisoners who are required to carry out spiritual or medical duties on behalf of their comrades.

The working pay of the prisoners' representative, of his advisers, if any, and of his assistants, shall be paid out of the fund maintained by canteen profits. The scale of this working pay shall be fixed by the prisoners' representative and approved by the camp commander. If there is no such fund, the detaining authorities shall pay these prisoners a fair working rate of pay.

Article 63

Prisoners of war shall be permitted to receive remittances of money addressed to them individually or collectively.

Every prisoner of war shall have at his disposal the credit balance of his account as provided for in the following Article, within the limits fixed by the Detaining Power, which shall make such payments as are requested. Subject to financial or monetary restrictions which the Detaining Power regards as essential, prisoners of war may also have payments made abroad. In this case payments addressed by prisoners of war to dependants shall be given priority.

In any event, and subject to the consent of the Power on which they depend, prisoners may have payments made in their own country, as follows: the Detaining Power shall send to the aforesaid Power through the Protecting Power a notification giving all the necessary particulars concerning the prisoners of war, the beneficiaries of the payments, and the amount of the sums to be paid, expressed in the Detaining Power's currency. The said notification shall be signed by the prisoners and countersigned by the camp commander. The Detaining Power shall debit the prisoners' account by a corresponding amount; the sums thus debited shall be placed by it to the credit of the Power on which the prisoners depend.

To apply the foregoing provisions, the Detaining Power may usefully consult the Model Regulations in Annex V of the present Convention.

Article 64

The Detaining Power shall hold an account for each prisoner of war, showing at least the following:

1. The amounts due to the prisoner or received by him as advances of pay, as working pay or derived from any other source; the sums in the currency of the Detaining Power which were taken from him; the sums taken from him and converted at his request into the currency of the said Power.

2. The payments made to the prisoner in cash, or in any other similar form; the payments made on his behalf and at his request; the sums transferred under Article 63, third paragraph.

Article 65

Every item entered in the account of a prisoner of war shall be countersigned or initialled by him, or by the prisoners' representative acting on his behalf.

Prisoners of war shall at all times be afforded reasonable facilities for consulting and obtaining copies of their accounts, which may likewise be inspected by the representatives of the Protecting Powers at the time of visits to the camp.

When prisoners of war are transferred from one camp to another, their personal accounts will follow them. In case of transfer from one Detaining Power to another, the monies which are their property and are not in the currency of the Detaining Power will follow them. They shall be given certificates for any other monies standing to the credit of their accounts.

The Parties to the conflict concerned may agree to notify to each other at specific intervals through the Protecting Power, the amount of the accounts of the prisoners of war.

Article 66

On the termination of captivity, through the release of a prisoner of war or his repatriation, the Detaining Power shall give him a statement, signed by an authorized officer of that Power, showing the credit balance then due to him. The Detaining Power shall also send through the Protecting Power to the government upon which the prisoner of war depends, lists giving all appropriate particulars of all prisoners of war whose captivity has been terminated by repatriation, release, escape, death or any other means, and showing the amount of their credit balances. Such lists shall be certified on each sheet by an authorized representative of the Detaining Power.

Any of the above provisions of this Article may be varied by mutual agreement between any two Parties to the conflict.

The Power on which the prisoner of war depends shall be responsible for settling with him any credit balance due to him from the Detaining Power on the termination of his captivity.

Article 67

Advances of pay, issued to prisoners of war in conformity with Article 60, shall be considered as made on behalf of the Power on which they depend. Such advances of pay, as well as all payments made by the said Power under Article 63, third paragraph, and Article 68, shall form the subject of arrangements between the Powers concerned, at the close of hostilities.

Article 68

Any claim by a prisoner of war for compensation in respect of any injury or other disability arising out of work shall be referred to the Power on which he depends, through the Protecting Power. In accordance with Article 54, the Detaining Power will, in all cases, provide the prisoner of war concerned with a statement showing the nature of the injury or disability, the circumstances in which it arose and particulars of medical or hospital treatment given for it. This statement will be signed by a responsible officer of the Detaining Power and the medical particulars certified by a medical officer.

Any claim by a prisoner of war for compensation in respect of personal effects, monies or valuables impounded by the Detaining Power under Article 18 and not forthcoming on his repatriation, or in respect of loss alleged to be due to the fault of the Detaining Power or any of its servants, shall likewise be referred to the Power on which he depends. Nevertheless, any such personal effects required for use by the prisoners of war whilst in captivity shall be replaced at the expense of the Detaining Power. The Detaining Power will, in all cases, provide the prisoner of war with a statement, signed by a responsible officer, showing all available information regarding the reasons why such effects, monies or valuables have not been restored to him. A copy of this statement will be forwarded to the Power on which he depends through the Central Prisoners of War Agency provided for in Article 123.

SECTION V

RELATIONS OF PRISONERS OF WAR WITH THE EXTERIOR

Article 69

Immediately upon prisoners of war falling into its power, the Detaining Power shall inform them and the Powers on which they depend, through the Protecting Power, of the measures taken to carry out the provisions of the present Section. They shall likewise inform the parties concerned of any subsequent modifications of such measures.

Article 70

Immediately upon capture, or not more than one week after arrival at a camp, even if it is a transit camp, likewise in case of sickness or transfer to hospital or another camp, every prisoner of war shall be enabled to write direct to his family, on the one hand, and to the Central Prisoners of War Agency provided for in Article 123, on the other hand, a card similar, if possible, to the model annexed to the present Convention, informing his relatives of his capture, address and state of health. The said cards shall be forwarded as rapidly as possible and may not be delayed in any manner.

Article 71

Prisoners of war shall be allowed to send and receive letters and cards. If the Detaining Power deems it necessary to limit the number of letters and cards sent by each prisoner of war, the said number shall not be less than two letters and four cards monthly, exclusive of the capture cards provided for in Article 70, and conforming as closely as possible to the models annexed to the present Convention. Further limitations may be imposed only if the Protecting Power is satisfied that it would be in the interests of the prisoners of war concerned to do so owing to difficulties of translation caused by the Detaining Power's inability to find sufficient qualified linguists to carry out the necessary censorship. If limitations must be placed on the correspondence addressed to prisoners of war, they may be ordered only by the Power on which the prisoners depend, possibly at the request of the Detaining Power. Such letters and cards must be conveyed by the most rapid method at the disposal of the Detaining Power; they may not be delayed or retained for disciplinary reasons.

Prisoners of war who have been without news for a long period, or who are unable to receive news from their next of kin or to give them news by the ordinary postal route, as well as those who are at a great distance from their homes, shall be permitted to send telegrams, the fees being charged against the prisoners of war's accounts with the Detaining Power or paid in the currency at their disposal. They shall likewise benefit by this measure in cases of urgency.

As a general rule, the correspondence of prisoners of war shall be written in their native language. The Parties to the conflict may allow correspondence in other languages.

Sacks containing prisoner of war mail must be securely sealed and labelled so as clearly to indicate their contents, and must be addressed to offices of destination.

Article 72

Prisoners of war shall be allowed to receive by post or by any other means individual parcels or collective shipments containing, in particular, foodstuffs, clothing, medical supplies and articles of a religious, educational or recreational character which may meet their needs, including books, devotional articles, scientific equipment, examination papers, musical instruments, sports outfits and materials allowing prisoners of war to pursue their studies or their cultural activities.

Such shipments shall in no way free the Detaining Power from the obligations imposed upon it by virtue of the present Convention.

The only limits which may be placed on these shipments shall be those proposed by the Protecting Power in the interest of the prisoners themselves, or by the International Committee of the Red Cross or any other organization giving assistance to the prisoners, in respect of their own shipments only, on account of exceptional strain on transport or communications.

The conditions for the sending of individual parcels and collective relief shall, if necessary, be the subject of special agreements between the Powers concerned, which may in no case delay the receipt by the prisoners of relief supplies. Books may not be included in parcels of clothing and foodstuffs. Medical supplies shall, as a rule, be sent in collective parcels.

Article 73

In the absence of special agreements between the Powers concerned on the conditions for the receipt and distribution of collective relief shipments, the rules and regulations concerning collective shipments, which are annexed to the present Convention, shall be applied.

The special agreements referred to above shall in no case restrict the right of prisoners' representatives to take possession of collective relief shipments intended for prisoners of war, to proceed to their distribution or to dispose of them in the interest of the prisoners.

Nor shall such agreements restrict the right of representatives of the Protecting Power, the International Committee of the Red Cross or any other organization giving assistance to prisoners of war and responsible for the forwarding of collective shipments, to supervise their distribution to the recipients.

Article 74

All relief shipments for prisoners of war shall be exempt from import, customs and other dues.

Correspondence, relief shipments and authorized remittances of money addressed to prisoners of war or despatched by them through the post office, either direct or through the Information Bureaux provided for in Article 122 and the Central Prisoners of War Agency provided for in Article 123, shall be exempt from any postal dues, both in the countries of origin and destination, and in intermediate countries.

If relief shipments intended for prisoners of war cannot be sent through the post office by reason of weight or for any other cause, the cost of transportation shall be borne by the Detaining Power in all the territories under its control. The other Powers party to the Convention shall bear the cost of transport in their respective territories.

In the absence of special agreements between the Parties concerned, the costs connected with transport of such shipments, other than costs covered by the above exemption, shall be charged to the senders.

The High Contracting Parties shall endeavour to reduce, so far as possible, the rates charged for telegrams sent by prisoners of war, or addressed to them.

Article 75

Should military operations prevent the Powers concerned from fulfilling their obligation to assure the transport of the shipments referred to in Articles 70, 71, 72 and 77, the Protecting Powers concerned, the International Committee of the Red Cross or any other organization duly approved by the Parties to the conflict may undertake to ensure the conveyance of such shipments by suitable means (railway wagons, motor vehicles, vessels or aircraft, etc.). For this purpose, the High Contracting Parties shall endeavour to supply them with such transport and to allow its circulation, especially by granting the necessary safe-conducts.

Such transport may also be used to convey:

(a) Correspondence, lists and reports exchanged between the Central Information Agency referred to in Article 123 and the National Bureaux referred to in Article 122;

(b) Correspondence and reports relating to prisoners of war which the Protecting Powers, the International Committee of the Red Cross or any other body assisting the prisoners, exchange either with their own delegates or with the Parties to the conflict.

These provisions in no way detract from the right of any Party to the conflict to arrange other means of transport, if it should so prefer, nor preclude the granting of safe-conducts, under mutually agreed conditions, to such means of transport.

In the absence of special agreements, the costs occasioned by the use of such means of transport shall be borne proportionally by the Parties to the conflict whose nationals are benefited thereby.

Article 76

The censoring of correspondence addressed to prisoners of war or despatched by them shall be done as quickly as possible. Mail shall be censored only by the despatching State and the receiving State, and once only by each.

The examination of consignments intended for prisoners of war shall not be carried out under conditions that will expose the goods contained in them to deterioration; except in the case of written or printed matter, it shall be done in the presence of the addressee, or of a fellow-prisoner duly delegated by him. The delivery to prisoners of individual or collective consignments shall not be delayed under the pretext of difficulties of censorship.

Any prohibition of correspondence ordered by Parties to the conflict, either for military or political reasons, shall be only temporary and its duration shall be as short as possible.

Article 77

The Detaining Powers shall provide all facilities for the transmission, through the Protecting Power or the Central Prisoners of War Agency provided for in Article 123, of instruments, papers or documents intended for prisoners of war or despatched by them, especially powers of attorney and wills.

In all cases they shall facilitate the preparation and execution of such documents on behalf of prisoners of war; in particular, they shall allow them to consult a lawyer and shall take what measures are necessary for the authentication of their signatures.

SECTION VI

RELATIONS BETWEEN PRISONERS OF WAR AND THE AUTHORITIES

Chapter I

COMPLAINTS OF PRISONERS OF WAR RESPECTING THE CONDITIONS OF CAPTIVITY

Article 78

Prisoners of war shall have the right to make known to the military authorities in whose power they are, their requests regarding the conditions of captivity to which they are subjected.

They shall also have the unrestricted right to apply to the representatives of the Protecting Powers either through their prisoners' representative or, if they consider it necessary, direct, in order to draw their attention to any points on which they may have complaints to make regarding their conditions of captivity.

These requests and complaints shall not be limited nor considered to be a part of the correspondence quota referred to in Article 71. They must be transmitted immediately. Even if they are recognized to be unfounded, they may not give rise to any punishment.

Prisoners' representatives may send periodic reports on the situation in the camps and the needs of the prisoners of war to the representatives of the Protecting Powers.

Chapter II

PRISONER OF WAR REPRESENTATIVES

Article 79

In all places where there are prisoners of war, except in those where there are officers, the prisoners shall freely elect by secret ballot, every six months, and also in case of vacancies, prisoners' representatives entrusted with representing them before the military authorities, the Protecting Powers, the International Committee of the Red Cross and any other organization which may assist them. These prisoners' representatives shall be eligible for re-election.

In camps for officers and persons of equivalent status or in mixed camps, the senior officer among the prisoners of war shall be recognized as the camp prisoners' representative. In camps for officers, he shall be assisted by one or more advisers chosen by the officers; in mixed camps, his assistants shall be chosen from among the prisoners of war who are not officers and shall be elected by them.

Officer prisoners of war of the same nationality shall be stationed in labour camps for prisoners of war, for the purpose of carrying out the camp administration duties for which the prisoners of war are responsible. These officers may be elected as prisoners' representatives under the first paragraph of this Article. In such a case the assistants to the prisoners' representatives shall be chosen from among those prisoners of war who are not officers.

Every representative elected must be approved by the Detaining Power before he has the right to commence his duties. Where the Detaining Power refuses to approve a prisoner of war elected by his fellow prisoners of war, it must inform the Protecting Power of the reason for such refusal.

In all cases the prisoners' representative must have the same nationality, language and customs as the prisoners of war whom he represents. Thus, prisoners of war distributed in different sections of a camp, according to their nationality, language or customs, shall have for each section their own prisoners' representative, in accordance with the foregoing paragraphs.

Article 80

Prisoners' representatives shall further the physical, spiritual and intellectual well-being of prisoners of war.

In particular, where the prisoners decide to organize amongst themselves a system of mutual assistance, this organization will be within the province of the prisoners' representative, in addition to the special duties entrusted to him by other provisions of the present Convention.

Prisoners' representatives shall not be held responsible, simply by reason of their duties, for any offences committed by prisoners of war.

Article 81

Prisoners' representatives shall not be required to perform any other work, if the accomplishment of their duties is thereby made more difficult.

Prisoners' representatives may appoint from amongst the prisoners such assistants as they may require. All material facilities shall be granted them, particularly a certain freedom of movement necessary for the accomplishment of their duties (inspection of labour detachments, receipt of supplies, etc.).

Prisoners' representatives shall be permitted to visit premises where prisoners of war are detained, and every prisoner of war shall have the right to consult freely his prisoners' representative.

All facilities shall likewise be accorded to the prisoners' representatives for communication by post and telegraph with the detaining authorities, the Protecting Powers, the International Committee of the Red Cross and their delegates, the Mixed Medical Commissions and with the bodies which give assistance to prisoners of war. Prisoners' representatives of labour detachments shall enjoy the same facilities for communication with the prisoners' representatives of the principal camp. Such communications shall not be restricted, nor considered as forming a part of the quota mentioned in Article 71.

Prisoners' representatives who are transferred shall be allowed a reasonable time to acquaint their successors with current affairs.

In case of dismissal, the reasons therefor shall be communicated to the Protecting Power.

Chapter III

PENAL AND DISCIPLINARY SANCTIONS

I. General provisions

Article 82

A prisoner of war shall be subject to the laws, regulations and orders in force in the armed forces of the Detaining Power; the Detaining Power shall be justified in taking judicial or disciplinary measures in respect of any offence committed by a prisoner of war against such laws, regulations or orders. However, no proceedings or punishments contrary to the provisions of this Chapter shall be allowed.

If any law, regulation or order of the Detaining Power shall declare acts committed by a prisoner of war to be punishable, whereas the same acts would not be punishable if committed by a member of the forces of the Detaining Power, such acts shall entail disciplinary punishments only.

Article 83

In deciding whether proceedings in respect of an offence alleged to have been committed by a prisoner of war shall be judicial or disciplinary, the Detaining Power shall ensure that the competent authorities exercise the greatest leniency and adopt, wherever possible, disciplinary rather than judicial measures.

Article 84

A prisoner of war shall be tried only by a military court, unless the existing laws of the Detaining Power expressly permit the civil courts to try a member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power in respect of the particular offence alleged to have been committed by the prisoner of war.

In no circumstances whatever shall a prisoner of war be tried by a court of any kind which does not offer the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality as generally recognized, and, in particular, the procedure of which does not afford the accused the rights and means of defence provided for in Article 105.

Article 85

Prisoners of war prosecuted under the laws of the Detaining Power for acts committed prior to capture shall retain, even if convicted, the benefits of the present Convention.

Article 86

No prisoner of war may be punished more than once for the same act, or on the same charge.

Article 87

Prisoners of war may not be sentenced by the military authorities and courts of the Detaining Power to any penalties except those provided for in respect of members of the armed forces of the said Power who have committed the same acts.

When fixing the penalty, the courts or authorities of the Detaining Power shall take into consideration, to the widest extent possible, the fact that the accused, not being a national of the Detaining Power, is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance, and that he is in its power as the result of circumstances independent of his own will. The said courts or authorities shall be at liberty to reduce the penalty provided for the violation of which the prisoner of war is accused, and shall therefore not be bound to apply the minimum penalty prescribed.

Collective punishment for individual acts, corporal punishments, imprisonment in premises without daylight and, in general, any form of torture or cruelty, are forbidden.

No prisoner of war may be deprived of his rank by the Detaining Power, or prevented from wearing his badges.

Article 88

Officers, non-commissioned officers and men who are prisoners of war undergoing a disciplinary or judicial punishment, shall not be subjected to more severe treatment than that applied in respect of the same punishment to members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power of equivalent rank.

A woman prisoner of war shall not be awarded or sentenced to a punishment more severe, or treated whilst undergoing punishment more severely, than a woman member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power dealt with for a similar offence.

In no case may a woman prisoner of war be awarded or sentenced to a punishment more severe, or treated whilst undergoing punishment more severely, than a male member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power dealt with for a similar offence.

Prisoners of war who have served disciplinary or judicial sentences may not be treated differently from other prisoners of war.

II. Disciplinary sanctions

Article 89

The disciplinary punishments applicable to prisoners of war are the following:

1. A fine which shall not exceed 50 per cent of the advances of pay and working pay which the prisoner of war would otherwise receive under the provisions of Articles 60 and 62 during a period of not more than thirty days.

2. Discontinuance of privileges granted over and above the treatment provided for by the present Convention.

3. Fatigue duties not exceeding two hours daily.

4. Confinement.

The punishment referred to under (3) shall not be applied to officers.

In no case shall disciplinary punishments be inhuman, brutal or dangerous to the health of prisoners of war.

Article 90

The duration of any single punishment shall in no case exceed thirty days. Any period of confinement awaiting the hearing of a disciplinary offence or the award of disciplinary punishment shall be deducted from an award pronounced against a prisoner of war.

The maximum of thirty days provided above may not be exceeded, even if the prisoner of war is answerable for several acts at the same time when he is awarded punishment, whether such acts are related or not.

The period between the pronouncing of an award of disciplinary punishment and its execution shall not exceed one month.

When a prisoner of war is awarded a further disciplinary punishment, a period of at least three days shall elapse between the execution of any two of the punishments, if the duration of one of these is ten days or more.

Article 91

The escape of a prisoner of war shall be deemed to have succeeded when:

1. He has joined the armed forces of the Power on which he depends, or those of an allied Power;

2. He has left the territory under the control of the Detaining Power, or of an ally of the said Power;

3. He has joined a ship flying the flag of the Power on which he depends, or of an allied Power, in the territorial waters of the Detaining Power, the said ship not being under the control of the last-named Power.

Prisoners of war who have made good their escape in the sense of this Article and who are recaptured, shall not be liable to any punishment in respect of their previous escape.

Article 92

A prisoner of war who attempts to escape and is recaptured before having made good his escape in the sense of Article 91 shall be liable only to a disciplinary punishment in respect of this act, even if it is a repeated offence.

A prisoner of war who is recaptured shall be handed over without delay to the competent military authority.

Article 88, fourth paragraph, notwithstanding, prisoners of war punished as a result of an unsuccessful escape may be subjected to special surveillance. Such surveillance must not affect the state of their health, must be undergone in a prisoner of war camp, and must not entail the suppression of any of the safeguards granted them by the present Convention.

Article 93

Escape or attempt to escape, even if it is a repeated offence, shall not be deemed an aggravating circumstance if the prisoner of war is subjected to trial by judicial proceedings in respect of an offence committed during his escape or attempt to escape.

In conformity with the principle stated in Article 83, offences committed by prisoners of war with the sole intention of facilitating their escape and which do not entail any violence against life or limb, such as offences against public property, theft without intention of self-enrichment, the drawing up or use of false papers, the wearing of civilian clothing, shall occasion disciplinary punishment only.

Prisoners of war who aid or abet an escape or an attempt to escape shall be liable on this count to disciplinary punishment only.

Article 94

If an escaped prisoner of war is recaptured, the Power on which he depends shall be notified thereof in the manner defined in Article 122, provided notification of his escape has been made.

Article 95

A prisoner of war accused of an offence against discipline shall not be kept in confinement pending the hearing unless a member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power would be so kept if he were accused of a similar offence, or if it is essential in the interests of camp order and discipline.

Any period spent by a prisoner of war in confinement awaiting the disposal of an offence against discipline shall be reduced to an absolute minimum and shall not exceed fourteen days.

The provisions of Articles 97 and 98 of this Chapter shall apply to prisoners of war who are in confinement awaiting the disposal of offences against discipline.

Article 96

Acts which constitute offences against discipline shall be investigated immediately.

Without prejudice to the competence of courts and superior military authorities, disciplinary punishment may be ordered only by an officer having disciplinary powers in his capacity as camp commander, or by a responsible officer who replaces him or to whom he has delegated his disciplinary powers.

In no case may such powers be delegated to a prisoner of war or be exercised by a prisoner of war.

Before any disciplinary award is pronounced, the accused shall be given precise information regarding the offences of which he is accused, and given an opportunity of explaining his conduct and of defending himself. He shall be permitted, in particular, to call witnesses and to have recourse, if necessary, to the services of a qualified interpreter. The decision shall be announced to the accused prisoner of war and to the prisoners' representative.

A record of disciplinary punishments shall be maintained by the camp commander and shall be open to inspection by representatives of the Protecting Power.

Article 97

Prisoners of war shall not in any case be transferred to penitentiary establishments (prisons, penitentiaries, convict prisons, etc.) to undergo disciplinary punishment therein.

All premises in which disciplinary punishments are undergone shall conform to the sanitary requirements set forth in Article 25. A prisoner of war undergoing punishment shall be enabled to keep himself in a state of cleanliness, in conformity with Article 29.

Officers and persons of equivalent status shall not be lodged in the same quarters as non-commissioned officers or men.

Women prisoners of war undergoing disciplinary punishment shall be confined in separate quarters from male prisoners of war and shall be under the immediate supervision of women.

Article 98

A prisoner of war undergoing confinement as a disciplinary punishment, shall continue to enjoy the benefits of the provisions of this Convention except in so far as these are necessarily rendered inapplicable by the mere fact that he is confined. In no case may he be deprived of the benefits of the provisions of Articles 78 and 126.

A prisoner of war awarded disciplinary punishment may not be deprived of the prerogatives attached to his rank.

Prisoners of war awarded disciplinary punishment shall be allowed to exercise and to stay in the open air at least two hours daily.

They shall be allowed, on their request, to be present at the daily medical inspections. They shall receive the attention which their state of health requires and, if necessary, shall be removed to the camp infirmary or to a hospital.

They shall have permission to read and write, likewise to send and receive letters. Parcels and remittances of money, however, may be withheld from them until the completion of the punishment; they shall meanwhile be entrusted to the prisoners' representative, who will hand over to the infirmary the perishable goods contained in such parcels.

III. Judicial proceedings

Article 99

No prisoner of war may be tried or sentenced for an act which is not forbidden by the law of the Detaining Power or by international law, in force at the time the said act was committed.

No moral or physical coercion may be exerted on a prisoner of war in order to induce him to admit himself guilty of the act of which he is accused.

No prisoner of war may be convicted without having had an opportunity to present his defence and the assistance of a qualified advocate or counsel.

Article 100

Prisoners of war and the Protecting Powers shall be informed as soon as possible of the offences which are punishable by the death sentence under the laws of the Detaining Power.

Other offences shall not thereafter be made punishable by the death penalty without the concurrence of the Power upon which the prisoners of war depend.

The death sentence cannot be pronounced on a prisoner of war unless the attention of the court has, in accordance with Article 87, second paragraph, been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Detaining Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance, and that he is in its power as the result of circumstances independent of his own will.

Article 101

If the death penalty is pronounced on a prisoner of war, the sentence shall not be executed before the expiration of a period of at least six months from the date when the Protecting Power receives, at an indicated address, the detailed communication provided for in Article 107.

Article 102

A prisoner of war can be validly sentenced only if the sentence has been pronounced by the same courts according to the same procedure as in the case of members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power, and if, furthermore, the provisions of the present Chapter have been observed.

Article 103

Judicial investigations relating to a prisoner of war shall be conducted as rapidly as circumstances permit and so that his trial shall take place as soon as possible. A prisoner of war shall not be confined while awaiting trial unless a member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power would be so confined if he were accused of a similar offence, or if it is essential to do so in the interests of national security. In no circumstances shall this confinement exceed three months.

Any period spent by a prisoner of war in confinement awaiting trial shall be deducted from any sentence of imprisonment passed upon him and taken into account in fixing any penalty.

The provisions of Articles 97 and 98 of this Chapter shall apply to a prisoner of war whilst in confinement awaiting trial.

Article 104

In any case in which the Detaining Power has decided to institute judicial proceedings against a prisoner of war, it shall notify the Protecting Power as soon as possible and at least three weeks before the opening of the trial. This period of three weeks shall run as from the day on which such notification reaches the Protecting Power at the address previously indicated by the latter to the Detaining Power.

The said notification shall contain the following information:

1. Surname and first names of the prisoner of war, his rank, his army, regimental, personal or serial number, his date of birth, and his profession or trade, if any;

2. Place of internment or confinement;

3. Specification of the charge or charges on which the prisoner of war is to be arraigned, giving the legal provisions applicable;

4 . Designation of the court which will try the case, likewise the date and place fixed for the opening of the trial.

The same communication shall be made by the Detaining Power to the prisoners' representative.

If no evidence is submitted, at the opening of a trial, that the notification referred to above was received by the Protecting Power, by the prisoner of war and by the prisoners' representative concerned, at least three weeks before the opening of the trial, then the latter cannot take place and must be adjourned.

Article 105

The prisoner of war shall be entitled to assistance by one of his prisoner comrades, to defence by a qualified advocate or counsel of his own choice, to the calling of witnesses and, if he deems necessary, to the services of a competent interpreter. He shall be advised of these rights by the Detaining Power in due time before the trial.

Failing a choice by the prisoner of war, the Protecting Power shall find him an advocate or counsel, and shall have at least one week at its disposal for the purpose. The Detaining Power shall deliver to the said Power, on request, a list of persons qualified to present the defence. Failing a choice of an advocate or counsel by the prisoner of war or the Protecting Power, the Detaining Power shall appoint a competent advocate or counsel to conduct the defence.

The advocate or counsel conducting the defence on behalf of the prisoner of war shall have at his disposal a period of two weeks at least before the opening of the trial, as well as the necessary facilities to prepare the defence of the accused. He may, in particular, freely visit the accused and interview him in private. He may also confer with any witnesses for the defence, including prisoners of war. He shall have the benefit of these facilities until the term of appeal or petition has expired.

Particulars of the charge or charges on which the prisoner of war is to be arraigned, as well as the documents which are generally communicated to the accused by virtue of the laws in force in the armed forces of the Detaining Power, shall be communicated to the accused prisoner of war in a language which he understands, and in good time before the opening of the trial. The same communication in the same circumstances shall be made to the advocate or counsel conducting the defence on behalf of the prisoner of war.

The representatives of the Protecting Power shall be entitled to attend the trial of the case, unless, exceptionally, this is held in camera in the interest of State security. In such a case the Detaining Power shall advise the Protecting Power accordingly.

Article 106

Every prisoner of war shall have, in the same manner as the members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power, the right of appeal or petition from any sentence pronounced upon him, with a view to the quashing or revising of the sentence or the reopening of the trial. He shall be fully informed of his right to appeal or petition and of the time limit within which he may do so.

Article 107

Any judgment and sentence pronounced upon a prisoner of war shall be immediately reported to the Protecting Power in the form of a summary communication, which shall also indicate whether he has the right of appeal with a view to the quashing of the sentence or the reopening of the trial. This communication shall likewise be sent to the prisoners' representative concerned. It shall also be sent to the accused prisoner of war in a language he understands, if the sentence was not pronounced in his presence. The Detaining Power shall also immediately communicate to the Protecting Power the decision of the prisoner of war to use or to waive his right of appeal.

Furthermore, if a prisoner of war is finally convicted or if a sentence pronounced on a prisoner of war in the first instance is a death sentence, the Detaining Power shall as soon as possible address to the Protecting Power a detailed communication containing:

1. The precise wording of the finding and sentence;

2. A summarized report of any preliminary investigation and of the trial, emphasizing in particular the elements of the prosecution and the defence;

3. Notification, where applicable, of the establishment where the sentence will be served.

The communications provided for in the foregoing subparagraphs shall be sent to the Protecting Power at the address previously made known to the Detaining Power.

Article 108

Sentences pronounced on prisoners of war after a conviction has become duly enforceable, shall be served in the same establishments and under the same conditions as in the case of members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power. These conditions shall in all cases conform to the requirements of health and humanity.

A woman prisoner of war on whom such a sentence has been pronounced shall be confined in separate quarters and shall be under the supervision of women.

In any case, prisoners of war sentenced to a penalty depriving them of their liberty shall retain the benefit of the provisions of Articles 78 and 126 of the present Convention. Furthermore, they shall be entitled to receive and despatch correspondence, to receive at least one relief parcel monthly, to take regular exercise in the open air, to have the medical care required by their state of health, and the spiritual assistance they may desire. Penalties to which they may be subjected shall be in accordance with the provisions of Article 87, third paragraph.

PART IV

TERMINATION OF CAPTIVITY

SECTION I

DIRECT REPATRIATION AND ACCOMMODATION IN NEUTRAL COUNTRIES

Article 109

Subject to the provisions of the third paragraph of this Article, Parties to the conflict are bound to send back to their own country, regardless of number or rank, seriously wounded and seriously sick prisoners of war, after having cared for them until they are fit to travel, in accordance with the first paragraph of the following Article.

Throughout the duration of hostilities, Parties to the conflict shall endeavour, with the cooperation of the neutral Powers concerned, to make arrangements for the accommodation in neutral countries of the sick and wounded prisoners of war referred to in the second paragraph of the following Article. They may, in addition, conclude agreements with a view to the direct repatriation or internment in a neutral country of able-bodied prisoners of war who have undergone a long period of captivity.

No sick or injured prisoner of war who is eligible for repatriation under the first paragraph of this Article, may be repatriated against his will during hostilities.

Article 110

The following shall be repatriated direct:

1. Incurably wounded and sick whose mental or physical fitness seems to have been gravely diminished.

2. Wounded and sick who, according to medical opinion, are not likely to recover within one year, whose condition requires treatment and whose mental or physical fitness seems to have been gravely diminished.

3. Wounded and sick who have recovered, but whose mental or physical fitness seems to have been gravely and permanently diminished.

The following may be accommodated in a neutral country:

1. Wounded and sick whose recovery may be expected within one year of the date of the wound or the beginning of the illness, if treatment in a neutral country might increase the prospects of a more certain and speedy recovery.

2. Prisoners of war whose mental or physical health, according to medical opinion, is seriously threatened by continued captivity, but whose accommodation in a neutral country might remove such a threat.

The conditions which prisoners of war accommodated in a neutral country must fulfil in order to permit their repatriation shall be fixed, as shall likewise their status, by agreement between the Powers concerned. In general, prisoners of war who have been accommodated in a neutral country, and who belong to the following categories, should be repatriated:

1. Those whose state of health has deteriorated so as to fulfil the conditions laid down for direct repatriation;

2. Those whose mental or physical powers remain, even after treatment, considerably impaired.

If no special agreements are concluded between the Parties to the conflict concerned, to determine the cases of disablement or sickness entailing direct repatriation or accommodation in a neutral country, such cases shall be settled in accordance with the principles laid down in the Model Agreement concerning direct repatriation and accommodation in neutral countries of wounded and sick prisoners of war and in the Regulations concerning Mixed Medical Commissions annexed to the present Convention.

Article 111

The Detaining Power, the Power on which the prisoners of war depend, and a neutral Power agreed upon by these two Powers, shall endeavour to conclude agreements which will enable prisoners of war to be interned in the territory of the said neutral Power until the close of hostilities.

Article 112

Upon the outbreak of hostilities, Mixed Medical Commissions shall be appointed to examine sick and wounded prisoners of war, and to make all appropriate decisions regarding them. The appointment, duties and functioning of these Commissions shall be in conformity with the provisions of the Regulations annexed to the present Convention.

However, prisoners of war who, in the opinion of the medical authorities of the Detaining Power, are manifestly seriously injured or seriously sick, may be repatriated without having to be examined by a Mixed Medical Commission.

Article 113

Besides those who are designated by the medical authorities of the Detaining Power, wounded or sick prisoners of war belonging to the categories listed below shall be entitled to present themselves for examination by the Mixed Medical Commissions provided for in the foregoing Article:

1. Wounded and sick proposed by a physician or surgeon who is of the same nationality, or a national of a Party to the conflict allied with the Power on which the said prisoners depend, and who exercises his functions in the camp.

2. Wounded and sick proposed by their prisoners' representative.

3. Wounded and sick proposed by the Power on which they depend, or by an organization duly recognized by the said Power and giving assistance to the prisoners.

Prisoners of war who do not belong to one of the three foregoing categories may nevertheless present themselves for examination by Mixed Medical Commissions, but shall be examined only after those belonging to the said categories.

The physician or surgeon of the same nationality as the prisoners who present themselves for examination by the Mixed Medical Commission, likewise the prisoners' representative of the said prisoners, shall have permission to be present at the examination.

Article 114

Prisoners of war who meet with accidents shall, unless the injury is self-inflicted, have the benefit of the provisions of this Convention as regards repatriation or accommodation in a neutral country.

Article 115

No prisoner of war on whom a disciplinary punishment has been imposed and who is eligible for repatriation or for accommodation in a neutral country, may be kept back on the plea that he has not undergone his punishment.

Prisoners of war detained in connection with a judicial prosecuti on or conviction and who are designated for repatriation or accommodation in a neutral country, may benefit by such measures before the end of the proceedings or the completion of the punishment, if the Detaining Power consents.

Parties to the conflict shall communicate to each other the names of those who will be detained until the end of the proceedings or the completion of the punishment.

Article 116

The costs of repatriating prisoners of war or of transporting them to a neutral country shall be borne, from the frontiers of the Detaining Power, by the Power on which the said prisoners depend.

Article 117

No repatriated person may be employed on active military service.

SECTION II

RELEASE AND REPATRIATION OF PRISONERS OF WAR AT THE CLOSE OF HOSTILITIES

Article 118

Prisoners of war shall be released and repatriated without delay after the cessation of active hostilities.

In the absence of stipulations to the above effect in any agreement concluded between the Parties to the conflict with a view to the cessation of hostilities, or failing any such agreement, each of the Detaining Powers shall itself establish and execute without delay a plan of repatriation in conformity with the principle laid down in the foregoing paragraph.

In either case, the measures adopted shall be brought to the knowledge of the prisoners of war.

The costs of repatriation of prisoners of war shall in all cases be equitably apportioned between the Detaining Power and the Power on which the prisoners depend. This apportionment shall be carried out on the following basis:

(a) If the two Powers are contiguous, the Power on which the prisoners of war depend shall bear the costs of repatriation from the frontiers of the Detaining Power.

(b) If the two Powers are not contiguous, the Detaining Power shall bear the costs of transport of prisoners of war over its own territory as far as its frontier or its port of embarkation nearest to the territory of the Power on which the prisoners of war depend. The Parties concerned shall agree between themselves as to the equitable apportionment of the remaining costs of the repatriation. The conclusion of this agreement shall in no circumstances justify any delay in the repatriation of the prisoners of war.

Article 119

Repatriation shall be effected in conditions similar to those laid down in Articles 46 to 48 inclusive of the present Convention for the transfer of prisoners of war, having regard to the provisions of Article 118 and to those of the following paragraphs.

On repatriation, any articles of value impounded from prisoners of war under Article 18, and any foreign currency which has not been converted into the currency of the Detaining Power, shall be restored to them. Articles of value and foreign currency which, for any reason whatever, are not restored to prisoners of war on repatriation, shall be despatched to the Information Bureau set up under Article 122.

Prisoners of war shall be allowed to take with them their personal effects, and any correspondence and parcels which have arrived for them. The weight of such baggage may be limited, if the conditions of repatriation so require, to what each prisoner can reasonably carry. Each prisoner shall in all cases be authorized to carry at least twenty-five kilograms.

The other personal effects of the repatriated prisoner shall be left in the charge of the Detaining Power which shall have them forwarded to him as soon as it has concluded an agreement to this effect, regulating the conditions of transport and the payment of the costs involved, with the Power on which the prisoner depends.

Prisoners of war against whom criminal proceedings for an indictable offence are pending may be detained until the end of such proceedings, and, if necessary, until the completion of the punishment. The same shall apply to prisoners of war already convicted for an indictable offence.

Parties to the conflict shall communicate to each other the names of any prisoners of war who are detained until the end of the proceedings or until punishment has been completed.

By agreement between the Parties to the conflict, commissions shall be established for the purpose of searching for dispersed prisoners of war and of assuring their repatriation with the least possible delay.

SECTION III

DEATH OF PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 120

Wills of prisoners of war shall be drawn up so as to satisfy the conditions of validity required by the legislation of their country of origin, which will take steps to inform the Detaining Power of its requirements in this respect. At the request of the prisoner of war and, in all cases, after death, the will shall be transmitted without delay to the Protecting Power; a certified copy shall be sent to the Central Agency.

Death certificates in the form annexed to the present Convention, or lists certified by a responsible officer, of all persons who die as prisoners of war shall be forwarded as rapidly as possible to the Prisoner of War Information Bureau established in accordance with Article 122. The death certificates or certified lists shall show particulars of identity as set out in the third paragraph of Article 17, and also the date and place of death, the cause of death, the date and place of burial and all particulars necessary to identify the graves.

The burial or cremation of a prisoner of war shall be preceded by a medical examination of the body with a view to confirming death and enabling a report to be made and, where necessary, establishing identity.

The detaining authorities shall ensure that prisoners of war who have died in captivity are honourably buried, if possible according to the rites of the religion to which they belonged, and that their graves are respected, suitably maintained and marked so as to be found at any time. Wherever possible, deceased prisoners of war who depended on the same Power shall be interred in the same place.

Deceased prisoners of war shall be buried in individual graves unless unavoidable circumstances require the use of collective graves. Bodies may be cremated only for imperative reasons of hygiene, on account of the religion of the deceased or in accordance with his express wish to this effect. In case of cremation, the fact shall be stated and the reasons given in the death certificate of the deceased.

In order that graves may always be found, all particulars of burials and graves shall be recorded with a Graves Registration Service established by the Detaining Power. Lists of graves and particulars of the prisoners of war interred in cemeteries and elsewhere shall be transmitted to the Power on which such prisoners of war depended. Responsibility for the care of these graves and for records of any subsequent moves of the bodies shall rest on the Power controlling the territory, if a Party to the present Convention. These provisions shall also apply to the ashes, which shall be kept by the Graves Registration Service until proper disposal thereof in accordance with the wishes of the home country.

Article 121

Every death or serious injury of a prisoner of war caused or suspected to have been caused by a sentry, another prisoner of war, or any other person, as well as any death the cause of which is unknown, shall be immediately followed by an official enquiry by the Detaining Power.

A communication on this subject shall be sent immediately to the Protecting Power. Statements shall be taken from witnesses, especially from those who are prisoners of war, and a report including such statements shall be forwarded to the Protecting Power.

If the enquiry indicates the guilt of one or more persons, the Detaining Power shall take all measures for the prosecution of the person or persons responsible.

PART V

INFORMATION BUREAUX AND RELIEF SOCIETIES FOR PRISONERS OF WAR

Article 122

Upon the outbreak of a conflict and in all cases of occupation, each of the Parties to the conflict shall institute an official Information Bureau for prisoners of war who are in its power. Neutral or non-belligerent Powers who may have received within their territory persons belonging to one of the categories referred to in Article 4, shall take the same action with respect to such persons. The Power concerned shall ensure that the Prisoners of War Information Bureau is provided with the necessary accommodation, equipment and staff to ensure its efficient working. It shall be at liberty to employ prisoners of war in such a Bureau under the conditions laid down in the Section of the present Convention dealing with work by prisoners of war.

Within the shortest possible period, each of the Parties to the conflict shall give its Bureau the information referred to in the fourth, fifth and sixth paragraphs of this Article regarding any enemy person belonging to one of the categories referred to in Article 4, who has fallen into its power. Neutral or non-belligerent Powers shall take the same action with regard to persons belonging to such categories whom they have received within their territory.

The Bureau shall immediately forward such information by the most rapid means to the Powers concerned, through the intermediary of the Protecting Powers and likewise of the Central Agency provided for in Article 123.

This information shall make it possible quickly to advise the next of kin concerned. Subject to the provisions of Article 17, the information shall include, in so far as available to the Information Bureau, in respect of each prisoner of war, his surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or serial number, place and full date of birth, indication of the Power on which he depends, first name of the father and maiden name of the mother, name and address of the person to be informed and the address to which correspondence for the prisoner may be sent.

The Information Bureau shall receive from the various departments concerned information regarding transfers, releases, repatriations, escapes, admissions to hospital, and deaths, and shall transmit such information in the manner described in the third paragraph above.

Likewise, information regarding the state of health of prisoners of war who are seriously ill or seriously wounded shall be supplied regularly, every week if possible.

The Information Bureau shall also be responsible for replying to all enquiries sent to it concerning prisoners of war, including those who have died in captivity; it will make any enquiries necessary to obtain the information which is asked for if this is not in its possession.

All written communications made by the Bureau shall be authenticated by a signature or a seal.

The Information Bureau shall furthermore be charged with collecting all personal valuables, including sums in currencies other than that of the Detaining Power and documents of importance to the next of kin, left by prisoners of war who have been repatriated or released, or who have escaped or died, and shall forward the said valuables to the Powers concerned. Such articles shall be sent by the Bureau in sealed packets which shall be accompanied by statements giving clear and full particulars of the identity of the person to whom the articles belonged, and by a complete list of the contents of the parcel. Other personal effects of such prisoners of war shall be transmitted under arrangements agreed upon between the Parties to the conflict concerned.

Article 123

A Central Prisoners of War Information Agency shall be created in a neutral country. The International Committee of the Red Cross shall, if it deems necessary, propose to the Powers concerned the organization of such an Agency.

The function of the Agency shall be to collect all the information it may obtain through official or private channels respecting prisoners of war, and to transmit it as rapidly as possible to the country of origin of the prisoners of war or to the Power on which they depend. It shall receive from the Parties to the conflict all facilities for effecting such transmissions.

The High Contracting Parties, and in particular those whose nationals benefit by the services of the Central Agency, are requested to give the said Agency the financial aid it may require.

The foregoing provisions shall in no way be interpreted as restricting the humanitarian activities of the International Committee of the Red Cross, or of the relief Societies provided for in Article 125.

Article 124

The national Information Bureaux and the Central Information Agency shall enjoy free postage for mail, likewise all the exemptions provided for in Article 74, and further, so far as possible, exemption from telegraphic charges or, at least, greatly reduced rates.

Article 125

Subject to the measures which the Detaining Powers may consider essential to ensure their security or to meet any other reasonable need, the representatives of religious organizations, relief societies, or any other organization assisting prisoners of war, shall receive from the said Powers, for themselves and their duly accredited agents, all necessary facilities for visiting the prisoners, distributing relief supplies and material, from any source, intended for religious, educational or recreative purposes, and for assisting them in organizing their leisure time within the camps. Such societies or organizations may be constituted in the territory of the Detaining Power or in any other country, or they may have an international character.

The Detaining Power may limit the number of societies and organizations whose delegates are allowed to carry out their activities in its territory and under its supervision, on condition, however, that such limitation shall not hinder the effective operation of adequate relief to all prisoners of war.

The special position of the International Committee of the Red Cross in this field shall be recognized and respected at all times.

As soon as relief supplies or material intended for the above-mentioned purposes are handed over to prisoners of war, or very shortly afterwards, receipts for each consignment, signed by the prisoners' representative, shall be forwarded to the relief society or organization making the shipment. At the same time, receipts for these consignments shall be supplied by the administrative authorities responsible for guarding the prisoners.

PART VI

EXECUTION OF THE CONVENTION

SECTION I

GENERAL PROVISIONS

Article 126

Representatives or delegates of the Protecting Powers shall have permission to go to all places where prisoners of war may be, particularly to places of internment, imprisonment and labour, and shall have access to all premises occupied by prisoners of war; they shall also be allowed to go to the places of departure, passage and arrival of prisoners who are being transferred. They shall be able to interview the prisoners, and in particular the prisoners' representatives, without witnesses, either personally or through an interpreter.

Representatives and delegates of the Protecting Powers shall have full liberty to select the places they wish to visit. The duration and frequency of these visits shall not be restricted. Visits may not be prohibited except for reasons of imperative military necessity, and then only as an exceptional and temporary measure.

The Detaining Power and the Power on which the said prisoners of war depend may agree, if necessary, that compatriots of these prisoners of war be permitted to participate in the visits.

The delegates of the International Committee of the Red Cross shall enjoy the same prerogatives. The appointment of such delegates shall be submitted to the approval of the Power detaining the prisoners of war to be visited.

Article 127

The High Contracting Parties undertake, in time of peace as in time of war, to disseminate the text of the present Convention as widely as possible in their respective countries, and, in particular, to include the study thereof in their programmes of military and, if possible, civil instruction, so that the principles thereof may become known to all their armed forces and to the entire population.

Any military or other authorities, who in time of war assume responsibilities in respect of prisoners of war, must possess the text of the Convention and be specially instructed as to its provisions.

Article 128

The High Contracting Parties shall communicate to one another through the Swiss Federal Council and, during hostilities, through the Protecting Powers, the official translations of the present Convention, as well as the laws and regulations which they may adopt to ensure the application thereof.

Article 129

The High Contracting Parties undertake to enact any legislation necessary to provide effective penal sanctions for persons committing, or ordering to be committed, any of the grave breaches of the present Convention defined in the following Article.

Each High Contracting Party shall be under the obligation to search for persons alleged to have committed, or to have ordered to be committed, such grave breaches, and shall bring such persons, regardless of their nationality, before its own courts. It may also, if it prefers, and in accordance with the provisions of its own legislation, hand such persons over for trial to another High Contracting Party concerned, provided such High Contracting Party has made out a prima facie case.

Each High Contracting Party shall take measures necessary for the suppression of all acts contrary to the provisions of the present Convention other than the grave breaches defined in the following Article.

In all circumstances, the accused persons shall benefit by safeguards of proper trial and defence, which shall not be less favourable than those provided by Article 105 and those following of the present Convention.

Article 130

Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, compelling a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of the hostile Power, or wilfully depriving a prisoner of war of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in this Convention.

Article 131

No High Contracting Party shall be allowed to absolve itself or any other High Contracting Party of any liability incurred by itself or by another High Contracting Party in respect of breaches referred to in the preceding Article.

Article 132

At the request of a Party to the conflict, an enquiry shall be instituted, in a manner to be decided between the interested Parties, concerning any alleged violation of the Convention.

If agreement has not been reached concerning the procedure for the enquiry, the Parties should agree on the choice of an umpire who will decide upon the procedure to be followed.

Once the violation has been established, the Parties to the conflict shall put an end to it and shall repress it with the least possible delay.

SECTION 11

FINAL PROVISIONS

Article 133

The present Convention is established in English and in French. Both texts are equally authentic. The Swiss Federal Council shall arrange for official translations of the Convention to be made in the Russian and Spanish languages.

Article 134

The present Convention replaces the Convention of 27 July 1929, in relations between the High Contracting Parties.

Article 135

In the relations between the Powers which are bound by The Hague Convention respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, whether that of July 29, 1899, or that of October 18, 1907, and which are parties to the present Convention, this last Convention shall be complementary to Chapter II of the Regulations annexed to the above-mentioned Conventions of The Hague.

Article 136

The present Convention, which bears the date of this day, is open to signature until February 12, 1950, in the name of the Powers represented at the Conference which opened at Geneva on April 21, 1949; furthermore, by Powers not represented at that Conference, but which are parties to the Convention of July 27, 1929.

Article 137

The present Convention shall be ratified as soon as possible and the ratifications shall be deposited at Berne.

A record shall be drawn up of the deposit of each instrument of ratification and certified copies of this record shall be transmitted by the Swiss Federal Council to all the Powers in whose name the Convention has been signed, or whose accession has been notified.

Article 138

The present Convention shall come into force six months after not less than two instruments of ratification have been deposited.

Thereafter, it shall come into force for each High Contracting Party six months after the deposit of the instrument of ratification.

Article 139

From the date of its coming into force, it shall be open to any Power in whose name the present Convention has not been signed, to accede to this Convention.

Article 140

Accessions shall be notified in writing to the Swiss Federal Council, and shall take effect six months after the date on which they are received.

The Swiss Federal Council shall communicate the accessions to all the Powers in whose name the Convention has been signed, or whose accession has been notified.

Article 141

The situations provided for in Articles 2 and 3 shall give immediate effect to ratifications deposited and accessions notified by the Parties to the conflict before or after the beginning of hostilities or occupation. The Swiss Federal Council shall communicate by the quickest method any ratifications or accessions received from Parties to the conflict.

Article 142

Each of the High Contracting Parties shall be at liberty to denounce the present Convention.

The denunciation shall be notified in writing to the Swiss Federal Council, which shall transmit it to the Governments of all the High Contracting Parties.

The denunciation shall take effect one year after the notification thereof has been made to the Swiss Federal Council. However, a denunciation of which notification has been made at a time when the denouncing Power is involved in a conflict shall not take effect until peace has been concluded, and until after operations connected with the release and repatriation of the persons protected by the present Convention have been terminated.

The denunciation shall have effect only in respect of the denouncing Power. It shall in no way impair the obligations which the Parties to the conflict shall remain bound to fulfil by virtue of the principles of the law of nations, as they result from the usages established among civilized peoples, from the laws of humanity and the dictates of the public conscience.

Article 143

The Swiss Federal Council shall register the present Convention with the Secretariat of the United Nations. The Swiss Federal Council shall also inform the Secretariat of the United Nations of all ratifications, accessions and denunciations received by it with respect to the present Convention.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF the undersigned, having deposited their respective full powers, have signed the present Convention.

DONE at Geneva this twelfth day of August 1949, in the English and French languages. The original shall be deposited in the Archives of the Swiss Confederation. The Swiss Federal Council shall transmit certified copies thereof to each of the signatory and acceding States.

ANNEX I


Model agreement concerning direct repatriation and accommodation in neutral countries
of wounded and sick prisoners of war

(see Article 110)


I.-PRINCIPLES FOR DIRECT REPATRIATION
AND ACCOMMODATION IN NEUTRAL COUNTRIES



A. DIRECT REPATRIATION

The following shall be repatriated direct:


1.All prisoners of war suffering from the following disabilities as the result of trauma: loss of limb, paralysis, articular or other disabilities, when this disability is at least the loss of a hand or a foot, or the equivalent of the loss of a hand or a foot.


Without prejudice to a more generous interpretation, the following shall be considered as equivalent to the loss of a hand or a foot:


(a) Loss of a hand or of all the fingers, or of the thumb and forefinger of one hand; loss of a foot, or of all the toes and metatarsals of one foot.

(b) Ankylosis, loss of osseous tissue, cicatricial contracture preventing the functioning of one of the large articulations or of all the digital joints of one hand.

(c) Pseudarthrosis of the long bones.

(d) Deformities due to fracture or other injury which seriously interfere with function and weight-bearing power.

2. All wounded prisoners of war whose condition has become chronic, to the extent that prognosis appears to exclude recovery-in spite of treatment-within one year from the date of the injury, as. for example, in case of:

(a) Projectile in the heart. even if the Mixed Medical Commission should fail, at the time of their examination, to detect any serious disorders.

(b) Metallic splinter in the brain or the lungs, even if the Mixed Medical Commission cannot, at the time of examination, detect any local or general reaction.

(c)Osteomyelitis, when recovery cannot be foreseen in the course of the year following the injury, and which seems likely to result in ankylosis of a joint, or other impairments equivalent to the loss of a hand or a foot.

(d) Perforating and suppurating injury to the large joints.

(e) Injury to the skull, with loss or shifting of bony tissue.

(f) Injury or burning of the face with loss of tissue and functional lesions.

(g) Injury to the spinal cord.

(h) Lesion of the peripheral nerves, the sequelae of which are equivalent to the loss of ahand or foot, and the cure of which requires more than a year from the date of injury, for example: injury to the brachial or lumbosacral plexus, the median or sciatic nerves, likewise combined injury to the radial and cubital nerves or to the lateral popliteal nerve (N. peroneus communes) and medial popliteal nerve (N. tibialis); etc. The separate injury of the 'radial (musculo-spiral), cubital. lateral or medial popliteal nerves shall not, however, warrant repatriation except in case of contractures or of serious neurotrophic disturbance.

(i) Injury to the urinary system, with incapacitating results.

3. All sick prisoners of war whose condition has become chronic to the extent that prognosis seems to exclude recovery-in spite of treatment-within one year from the inception of the disease, as, for example, in case of:

(a) Progressive tuberculosis of any organ which, according to medical prognosis, cannot be cured, or at least considerably improved, by treatment in a neutral country.

(b) Exudate pleurisy.

(c) Serious diseases of the respiratory organs of non-tubercular etiology, presumed incurable. for example: serious pulmonary emphysema, with or without bronchitis, chronic asthma:* chronic bronchitis* lasting more than one year in captivity; bronchiectasis,* etc.

(d) Serious chronic affections of the circulatory system, for example: valvular lesions and myocarditis* which have shown signs of circulatory failure during captivity, even though the Mixed Medical Commission cannot detect any such signs at the time of examination; affections of the pericardium and the vessels (Buerger's disease, aneurism of the large vessels); etc.

(e) Serious chronic affections of the digestive organs, for example: gastric or duodenal ulcer-, sequelae of gastric operations performed in captivity; chronic gastritis, enteritis or colitis, having lasted more than one year and seriously affecting the general condition: cirrhosis of the liver, chronic cholecystopathy;* etc.

(f) Serious chronic affections of the genito-urinary organs, for example: chronic diseases of the kidney with consequent disorders; nephrectomy because of a tubercular kidney; chronic pyelitis or chronic cystitis: hydronephrosis or pyonephrosis; chronic grave gynaecological conditions-, normal pregnancy, and obstetrical disorder, where it is impossible to accommodate in a neutral country; etc.

(g) Serious chronic diseases of the central and peripheral nervous system, for example: all obvious psychoses and psychoneuroses, such as serious hysteria, serious captivity psychoneurosis, etc., duly verified by a specialist;* any epilepsy duly vcrified by the camp physicians.' cerebral arteriosclerosis- chronic neuritis lasting more than one year. etc.
(h) Serious chronic disease of the neuro-vegetative system, with considerable diminution of mental or physical fitness. noticeable loss of weight and general asthenia.

(i) Blindness of both eyes, or of one eve when the vision of the other is less than I in spite of the use of corrective glasses; diminution of visual acuity in cases where it is impossible to restore it by correction to an acuity of 1/2 in at least one eye;* other grave ocular affections, for example: glaucoma, iritis, choroiditis; trachoma, etc.

(k) Auditive disorders, such as total unilateral deafness, if the other car does not discern the ordinary spoken word at a distance of one metre;* etc.

(l) Serious affections of metabolism, for example: diabetes mellitus requiring insulin treatment; etc.

(m) Serious disorders of the endocrine glands, for example: thyrotoxicosis; hypothyrosis; Addison's disease; Simmonds' cachexia; tetany; etc.

(n) Grave and chronic disorders of the blood-forming organs.

(o) Serious cases of chronic intoxication, for example: lead poisoning, mercury poisoing, morphinism. cocainism, alcoholism; gas or radiation poisoning; etc.

(p) Chronic affections of locomotion, with obvious functional disorders, for example: arthritis deformans, primary and secondary progressive chronic polyarthritis; rheumatism with serious clinical symptoms; etc.

(q) Serious chronic skin diseases. not amenable to treatment.

(r) Any malignant growth.

(s) Serious chronic infectious diseases, persisting for one year after their inception, for example: malaria with decided organic impairment, amoebic or bacillary dysentery with grave disorders; tertiary visceral syphilis resistant to treatment; leprosy; etc.

(t) Serious avitaminosis or serious inanition.

__________

*The decision of the Mixed Medical Commission shall be based to a great extent on the records kept by camp physicians and surgeons of the same nationality as the prisoners of war, or on an examination by medical specialists of the Detaining Power.

B. ACCOMMODATION IN NEUTRAL COUNTRIES






The following shall be eligible for accommodation in a neutral country:


1. All wounded prisoners of war who are not likely to recover in captivity, but who might be cured or whose condition might be considerably improved by accommodation in a neutral country.


2. Prisoners of war suffering from any form of tuberculosis, of whatever organ, and whose treatment in a neutral country would be likely to lead to recovery or at least to considerable improvement, with the exception of primary tuberculosis cured before captivity.


3. Prisoners of war suffering from affections requiring treatment of the respiratory, circulatory, digestive, nervous, sensory, genito-urinary, cutaneous. locomotive organs, etc., if such treatment would clearly have better results in a neutral country than in captivity.


4. Prisoners of war who have undergone a nephrectomy in captivity for a nontubercular renal affection; cases of osteomyelitis, on the way to recovery or latent; diabetes mellitus not requiring insulin treatment; etc.


5. Prisoners of war suffering from war or captivity neuroses.

Cases of captivity neurosis which are not cured after three months of accommodation in a neutral country, or which after that length of time are not clearly on the way to complete cure, shall be repatriated.


6. All prisoners of war suffering from chronic intoxication (gases, metals, alkaloids, etc.), for whom the prospects of cure in a neutral country are especially favourable.


7. All women prisoners of war who are pregnant or mothers with infants and small children.


The following cases shall not be eligible for accommodation in a neutral country:

1. All duly verified chronic psychoses.


2. All organic or functional nervous affections considered to be incurable.


3. All contagious diseases during the period in which they are transmissible, with the exception of tuberculosis.



II. GENERAL OBSERVATIONS






1. The conditions given shall, in a general way, be interpreted and applied in as broad a spirit as possible.

Neuropathic and psychopathic conditions caused by war or captivity, as well as cases of tuberculosis in all stages, shall above all benefit by such liberal interpretation. Prisoners of war Who have sustained several wounds, none of which, considered by itself, justifies repatriation, shall be examined in the same spirit, with due regard for the psychic traumatism due to the number of their wounds.


2. All unquestionable cases giving the right to direct repatriation (amputation, total blindness or deafness. open pulmonary tuberculosis, mental disorder. malignant growth, etc.)shall be examined and repatriated as soon as possible by the camp physicians or by military medical commissions appointed by the Detaining Power.


3. Injuries and diseases which existed before the war and which have not become worse. as well as war injuries which have not prevented subsequent military service, shall not entitle to direct repatriation.


4. The provisions of this Annex shall be interpreted and applied in a similar manner in all countries party to the conflict. The Powers and authorities concerned shall grant to Mixed Medical Commissions all the facilities necessary for the accomplishment of their task.


5. The examples quoted under (1) above represent only typical cases. Cases which do not correspond exactly to these provisions shall be judged in the spirit of the provisions of Article I 10 of the present Convention, and of the principles embodied in the present Agreement.



ANNEX II

Regulations concerning Mixed Medical Commissions
(see Article 112)

Article 1


The Mixed Medical Commissions provided for in Article 112 of the Convention shall be composed of three members, two of whom shall belong to a neutral country. the third being appointed by the Detaining Power. One of the neutral members shall take the chair.


Article 2


The two neutral members shall be appointed by the International Committee of the Red Cross, acting in agreement with the Protecting Power, at the request of the Detaining Power. They may be domiciled either in their country of origin, in any other neutral country, or in the territory of the Detaining Power.

Article 3


The neutral members shall be approved by the Parties to the conflict concerned, who notify their approval to the International Committee of the Red Cross and to the Protecting Power. Upon such notification, the neutral members shall be considered as effectively appointed.


Article 4


Deputy members shall also be appointed in sufficient number to replace the regular members in case of need. They shall be appointed at the same time as the regular members or, at least, as soon as possible.


Article 5


If for any reason the International Committee of the Red Cross cannot arrange for the appointment of the neutral members, this shall be done by the Power protecting the interests of the prisoners of war to be examined.


Article 6


So far as possible, one of the two neutral members shall be a surgeon and the other a physician.


Article 7


The neutral members shall be entirely independent of the Parties to the conflict, which shall grant them all facilities in the accomplishment of their duties.


Article 8


By agreement with the Detaining Power, the International Committee of the Red Cross, when making the appointments provided for in Articles 2 and 4 of the present Regulations, shall settle the terms of service of the nominees.


Article 9


The Mixed Medical Commissions shall begin their work as soon as possible after the neutral members have been approved, and in any case within a period of three months from the date of such approval.


Article 10


The Mixed Medical Commissions shall examine all the prisoners designated in Article 113 of the Convention. They shall propose repatriation, rejection, or reference to a later examination. Their decisions shall be made by a majority vote.


Article 11


The decisions made by the Mixed Medical Commissions in each specific case shall be communicated, during the month following their visit, to the Detaining Power, the Protecting Power and the International Committee of the Red Cross. The Mixed Medical Commissions shall also inform each prisoner of war examined of the decision made, and shall issue to those whose repatriation has been proposed, certificates similar to the model appended to the present Convention.


Article 12


The Detaining Power shall be required to carry out the decisions of the Mixed Medical Commissions within three months of the time when it receives due notification of such decisions.


Article 13


If there is no neutral physician in a country where the services of a Mixed Medical Commission seem to be required, and if it is for any reason impossible to appoint neutral doctors who are resident in another country, the Detaining Power, acting in agreement with the Protecting Power, shall set up a Medical Commission which shall undertake the same duties as a Mixed Medical Commission, subject to the provisions of Articles 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8 of the Present Regulations.


Article 14


Mixed Medical Commissions shall function permanently and shall visit each camp at intervals of not more than six months.



ANNEX III

Regulations concerning collective relief
(see Article 73)

Article 1

Prisoners' representatives shall be allowed to distribute collective relief shipments for which they are sible, to all prisoners of war administered by their camp, including those who am in hospitals or in prisons or other penal establishments.


Article 2


The distribution of collective relief shipments shall be effected in accordance with the instructions of the donors and with a plan drawn up by the prisoners' representatives. 'Me issue of medical stores shall. however, be made for preference in agreement with the senior medical officers, and the latter may. in hospitals and infirmaries, waive the said instructions, if the needs of their patients so demand. Within the limits thus defined, the distribution shall always be carried out equitably.


Article 3


The said prisoners' representatives or their assistants shall be allowed to go to the points of arrival of relief supplies near their camps. so as to enable the prisoners' representatives or their assistants to verify the quality as well as the quantity of the goods received, and to make out detailed reports thereon for the donors.


Article 4


Prisoners' representatives shall be given the facilities necessary for verifying whether the distribution of collective relief in all sub-divisions and annexes of their camps has been carried out in accordance with their instructions.


Article 5


Prisoners' representatives shall be allowed to fill up, and cause to be filled up by the prisoners' representatives of labour detachments or by the senior medical officers of infirmaries and hospitals, forms or questionnaires intended for the donors, relating to collective relief supplies (distribution. requirements, quantities, etc.). Such forms and questionnaires, duly completed, shall be forwarded to the donors without delay.


Article 6


In order to secure the regular issue of collective relief to the prisoners of war in their camp. and to meet any needs that may arise from the arrival of new contingents of prisoners, prisoners' representatives shall be allowed to build up and maintain adequate reserve stocks of collective relief. For this purpose, they shall have suitable warehouses at their disposal; each warehouse shall be provided with two locks, the prisoners' representative holding the keys of one lock and the camp commander the keys of the other.


Article 7


When collective consignments of clothing am available each prisoner of war shall retain in his possession at least one complete set of clothes. If a prisoner has more than one set of clothes, the prisoners' representative shall be permitted to withdraw excess clothing from those with the largest number of sets, or particular articles in excess of one, if this is necessary in order to supply prisoners who are less well provided. He shall not, however, withdraw second sets of underclothing, socks or footwear, unless this is the only means of providing for prisoners of war with none.


Article 8


The High Contracting Parties, and the Detaining Powers in particular, shall authorize, as far as possible and subject to the regulations governing the supply of the population, all purchases of goods made in their territories for the distribution of collective relief to prisoners of war. They shall similarly facilitate the transfer of funds and other financial measures of a technical or administrative nature taken for the purpose of making such purchases.


Article 9


The foregoing provisions shall not constitute an obstacle to the right of prisoners of war to receive collective relief before their arrival in a camp or in the course of transfer, nor to the possibility of representatives of the Protecting Power, the International Committee of the Red Cross, or any other body giving assistance to prisoners which may be responsible for the forwarding of such supplies, ensuring the distribution thereof to the addressees by any other means that they may deem useful.



ANNEX IV.

A. IDENTITYCARD
(see Article 4)

[...]

B. CAPTURE CARD
(see Article 70)

[...]

C. CORRESPONDENCE CARD AND LETTER
(see Article 71)

[...]

D. NOTIFICATION OF DEATH
(see Article 120)

[...]

E. REPATRIATION CERTIFICATE
(see Annex II, Article 11)

REPATRIATION CERTIFICATE

Date:

Camp:

Hospital:

Surname:

First names:

Date of birth:

Rank:

Army number:

P. W. number:

Injury-Disease:

Decision of the Commission:

Chairman of the
Mixed Medical Commission:

A= direct repatriation
B= accommodation in a neutral country
NC= re-examination by next Commission
ANNEX V
Model regulations concerning payments sent by prisoners to their own country
1. The notification referred to in the third paragraph of Article 63 will show:
(a) Number as specified in Article 17, rank, surname and first names of the prisoner of war who is the payer;
(b) The name and address of the payee in the country of origin;
(c) The amount to be so paid in the currency of the country in which he is detained.
2. The notification will be signed by the prisoner of war, or his witnessed mark made upon if it he cannot write, and shall be countersigned by the prisoners' representative.
3. The camp commander will add to this notification a certiciate that the prisoner of war concerned has a credit balance of not less than the amount registered as payable.
4. The notification may be made up in lists, each sheet of such lists witnessed by the prisoners' representative and certified by the camp commander.

too long to read. yo creed, remember when randleman knocked crocop the **** out

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo
Bush is a retarded child and you are the ***** of his propaganda machine. Although, I'm tempted to assume that you don't mean a word of it and that you are a poor quality troll.

You'd have to be some kind of special case to actually believe any of that ****e.

so far all i've seen from you are whiney **** talks without the spine to back up a ****in word you've said. start saying something with a base and then you can come back with a retort after i rip apart any arguement piece by piece that you try throwing out at me.

until then, do yourself a favor and give a me at least a decent challenge in making you look like a ****in idiot.

hey matlock, quit wasting threads with drawn out **** that nobody will read when your basic point is that countries need to follow the rules of war.

my opinion to that rules of war are lame. how about some rules of common sense that tell us to treat people how we want to be treated. which means that i'll be cool with you if yer cool with me. if you try to kill me, fail at that, and i catch you....don't expect me to be nice.

**** them, the woman underwear on the guys face had me cracking up for hours. Where's your allah now?

Originally posted by Purity
so far all i've seen from you are whiney **** talks without the spine to back up a ****in word you've said. start saying something with a base and then you can come back with a retort after i rip apart any arguement piece by piece that you try throwing out at me.

until then, do yourself a favor and give a me at least a decent challenge in making you look like a ****in idiot.

Oh sweet... nice post, buddy.

OK, for a start point... your *arguments*, though in all honestly I flatter them by labelling them as such, assume that the war is a just war. I dispute this. Where are the ****in WMD that Bush used as an excuse to start the war? Answer: There aren't any, he's a war-like cunt.

oh oh and if you still think the war was worth starting... switch on the news any day at random and get ready for another cheery tale of death and social-dislocation.

Oh yeah, your *toughguy* stance... whoa... how gruff and tough are you? Wow, you pwn!

Originally posted by Purity
hey matlock, quit wasting threads with drawn out **** that nobody will read when your basic point is that countries need to follow the rules of war.

my opinion to that rules of war are lame. how about some rules of common sense that tell us to treat people how we want to be treated. which means that i'll be cool with you if yer cool with me. if you try to kill me, fail at that, and i catch you....don't expect me to be nice.

So, then it was ok for iraqis to tourture and rape american POWs? I guess no one can blame them for what they did to say.....Jessica Lynch?

I am ****ing truly sorry that I had to waste my time to look at this monkey spunk of a thread.

Jessica lynch was total bull****. I don't know how you become a hero because you got lost and somebody throws you on the floor to protect you. While they die from a rpg hit. ***** should die.

Where's the Neanderthal gone?

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo
Oh sweet... nice post, buddy.
as always

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

OK, for a start point... your *arguments*, though in all honestly I flatter them by labelling them as such, assume that the war is a just war. I dispute this. Where are the ****in WMD that Bush used as an excuse to start the war? Answer: There aren't any, he's a war-like cunt.
actually my arguements don't make any assumption of a just war. my arguements actually backup similar tactics & actions used in ALL wars since the dawn of time. thought i pointed that out...

but then again if you're used to making ASSumptions, you probably didn't see that and just assumed that this is a thread about supporting bush and the cause of the war. you don't know my stance on either of those issues because i've never stated one in this thread.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

oh oh and if you still think the war was worth starting... switch on the news any day at random and get ready for another cheery tale of death and social-dislocation.
ok.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

Oh yeah, your *toughguy* stance... whoa... how gruff and tough are you? Wow, you pwn!
why thank you. as a matter of fact i do like getting my **** stroked. keep it up cutie pie.

Originally posted by Creed
So, then it was ok for iraqis to tourture and rape american POWs? I guess no one can blame them for what they did to say.....Jessica Lynch?

pow treatment sucks, as does war & death BUT it's still a part of war- which, whether you like it, don't like it, agree or disagree with it, WE ARE IN IT. we were all raised to understand this by doing nothing but memorizing times, locations, and numbers of casualties in wars in history classes from grade 4 on up.

so what i'm pissed about is why everyone is in such shock on this ****in prisoner treatment. they are the enemy. they tried to kill our troops. we're not about giving them filet mignons & thaiwanese massages upon capture.
you release these ****ers & they're gonna do the same thing. rehabilitation is an illusion created by a society that's too ****in weak to accept death as a reality. there is no such thing as rehabilitation.

So your point is this;

'The idea of pow's getting ****ed over is a fact of life. I accept it and find it entertaining.'

Way to go, bruv, make those teachers of yours proud.

the only time i cited entertainment was when i was pointing mockery towards the media. while yer on yer journey towards reading before you write, grasp yerself a concept of sarcasm.


where the hell is nuno & aaron??? at least these guys put up valid arguements.

'Argument' is spelt with one 'e'.

I can't be ****ed with you. After all, you are only an ugly boy.

Good day to you.

Originally posted by Purity
where the hell is nuno & aaron??? at least these guys put up valid arguements.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo
'Argument' is spelt with one 'e'.

and it's carried out by sticking to subject, rather then desperately trying to prove that you still have a few amebas kickin around in that thick ****in noggin of yours. don't worry about looking smart- you lost that cause way back on the 1st page.

when i decide to hold a spelling contest then you can get yer rocks off. uhntil thenn, deel withe it.

ahahahaha

i dont know what the **** mma is.

i heart you

G.I. Joe is searching you...

Originally posted by KittyKitty
ahahahaha

i dont know what the **** mma is.

i heart you


this is my new wife everyone. she got ****canned along with me at the saltwater boards. now we're gonna get married, **** like rabbits, and pee on people's foreheads.

now even though she doesn't know mma, she's gonna learn. if she doesn't then i get to kick her frail lil ass. even if she does i'm kickin her ass :)

we rule

Originally posted by Purity
where the hell is nuno & aaron??? at least these guys put up valid arguements.

Hi....:)

I'll make this short...

As far as I know, we helped setup these guidelines for prisoner treatment. That alone is reason enough for us to follow them. End of story.

Just because they break the rules doesn't automatically mean we should do the same. Blah, blah.....

I have had a long day of work.... :(

lmao @ nuno!! dude i missed you. well no worries. i'm pretty sure you'll wake up refreshed tomorrow so i'll be hoping for a cooler reply.

Shhhh don't tell them about our awesome wedding, they might steal our ideas. Then I'd have to kill people.


Kinda like I'm gonna kill you. :whipped:

Purity's opinion - **** em, it's war. Who cares what the rest of the world thinks.

Nuno's opinion - Treat them according to guidelines. We should be an example to the rest of the world.

Am I correct, Purity?

NO.

Dogg's opinion- "NO (and Eukanuba rules)..."

Originally posted by KittyKitty
Shhhh don't tell them about our awesome wedding, they might steal our ideas. Then I'd have to kill people.


Kinda like I'm gonna kill you. :whipped:
yeah that's the other thing. she's gonna kill me. oh well.

that's what love is all about....sacrifice.

Also, treating POWs like **** is common, but taking pictures and letting them go public is plainly retarted... It makes the US look like *******s; We went there because their rights were being violated by a "ruthless dictator" and now we pile them up butt naked and take pictures with them.

Originally posted by Nuno
Purity's opinion - **** em, it's war. Who cares what the rest of the world thinks.

Nuno's opinion - Treat them according to guidelines. We should be an example to the rest of the world.

Am I correct, Purity?

well yer correct in your assessment of us but allow me to explain why i think yer view sucks:

**** guidelines. and **** setting an example. the world doesn't need an example. they can think for themselves and they're gonna do what they're gonna do regardless of us.
in my opinion, these hostile middle eastern countries will continue to zealously hate us more and more no matter WHAT. the hippies will continue to ***** no matter WHAT.
even if we adopt the talibanian lifestyle and every cheeseburger-munchin whiteboy starts bowing facedown to mohammed, they will hate us even more. then our allies will hate us. then everyone else will interpret us weak and it will all go to ****.

what i think we need to do is stay outta most of these world affairs to start with. BUT if we're involved then show no ****ing mercy. sun tsu (excuse my spelling for johnny pickyboy up there) said it best when he explained how a quick & extremely brutal style of warfare is MUCH more efficient than drawing it all out and pretending like we're nice guys.
of course we COULD be doing that already if we're adopting his most important principle: the art of war is deception

My opinion: This world is ****ing absurd..ok, these soldiers are a bunch of bastards with cake testicles, but WTF is happening with the Irakis torturers?? WTF happens with the italian killed in front of a cam?? WTF happens with the civils that irakies soldiers have killed and tortured???

Oh yes!! we're a hippy comunist bunch against the american imperialism ogre!! I think it has been a very bad move but, do you believe that irakies (or russian, or spanish, or ....) don't torture or don't huniliate the enemy??? Be realist, this is the sad reality....

Put yourself in their shoes, Purity. These soldiers have been blinded by propaganda their entire lives. They are fighting for what they think is right. **** we invaded them out of the blue for no good reason. Just because we ASSumed they had WMD. Now we're supposed to be liberating them. Yeah, OK. All the US did by attacking Iraq was create more hate.

And you gotta be a damn fool to take pictures of your torture victims. Ecspecially if you're a US soldier.

Originally posted by PANIKO
My opinion: This world is ****ing absurd..ok, these soldiers are a bunch of bastards with cake testicles, but WTF is happening with the Irakis torturers?? WTF happens with the italian killed in front of a cam?? WTF happens with the civils that irakies soldiers have killed and tortured???

Oh yes!! we're a hippy comunist bunch against the american imperialism ogre!! I think it has been a very bad move but, do you believe that irakies (or russian, or spanish, or ....) don't torture or don't huniliate the enemy??? Be realist, this is the sad reality....

DIE SPANIARD! DIE!

Originally posted by DOGGx0
DIE SPANIARD! DIE!

But i'm correct...

kisses.

Originally posted by Nuno
Put yourself in their shoes, Purity. These soldiers have been blinded by propaganda their entire lives. They are fighting for what they think is right. **** we invaded them out of the blue for no good reason. Just because we ASSumed they had WMD. Now we're supposed to be liberating them. Yeah, OK. All the US did by attacking Iraq was create more hate.

And you gotta be a damn fool to take pictures of your torture victims. Ecspecially if you're a US soldier.

i agree 100% that we created more hate towards us by startin **** with iraq. i think it's only obvious that we're doing this for the oil and to cover up for the fact that we can't find bin ****ing laden. and i couldn't agree any further with you & bub about the stupidity of taking those photos.

BUT my point is that pow's aren't to be treated the way that the world is demanding from us. just because people see photos! are these people THAT ****ING STUPID that they need PHOTOS to awake them on the realities and horrors of warfare?!?!

"oh my GOD they mistreat prisoners of war! **** i didn't know they did that!!! i thought they smothered them with tempur pedic mattresses and had scantilly clad playboy models hand-feeding them grapes while they lounge in hammocks! i'm in such SHOCK!!!"

You're right, it's war. Crazy **** happens in war cause it makes people crazy. But it still doesn't make torture right. Torture is sadistic. It looks bad when it's coming from the supposed good guys.

If your up for it, we'll continue tomorrow. I'm going home!!

Originally posted by Nuno
You're right, it's war. Crazy **** happens in war cause it makes people crazy. But it still doesn't make torture right. Torture is sadistic. It looks bad when it's coming from the supposed good guys.

torture is sadistic but we've been here before nuno. i believe you have to make short term sacrifices for long term benefit.

if i'm in grade school and bully starts pickin on me, i'm gonna ****in punch him regardless. now that bully may kick my ass right there on the spot BUT, chances are, he's gonna respect me and never give me **** again. this opposed to letting myself get teased and ridiculed for years on end because i was too afraid to endure a couple bruises and scrapes.

short term sacrifice for long term benefit. this above example is being used towards the arguement of torture and NOT for any other arguement in regards to the war in iraq.

Originally posted by Nuno
If your up for it, we'll continue tomorrow. I'm going home!!

you knowmee homee :)

I have only read half of this thread, but am going to put in my 2 cents cause I a probably one of the few that has been trained in interrogation and POW handling and has realistic expectations of what should and should not happen.

Let me start with this...

It is common practice for the Australian SAS to 'kidnap' soldiers from other units for a few dyas at a time for interrogation training. Basically, they bag your head, zip tie your hands behind your back, strip you and make you sit on a mat, while they do pretty much as they please. They have have female Intel officers or MPs come in and laugh at you, dogs barking inches away from you, all while you are blindfolded and ****ting yourself.
The practice works both ways, it serves to show soldiers how long they can handle this form of interrogation before they spill their guts, and it gives the SAS and intel guys practice at real time interrogations.

The Geneva convention is a long document with some well worded boundries, but basically, and as far as a court would be concerned, all you have to give a POW is shelter, clothing, food, water and time for their own religious beliefs. Other than that, knock yourself out. You have to also provide medical aid, so if you hurt them, you have to fix them, which is a pain in the ass for everyone.

When I saw those pics, I knew it would create some uproar, but in all honesty the only wrong part is it got caught on camera.

War is a harsh place and not for everyone. There is a select group of people that can function in a warzone, in a place where a lot of us cannot. There are things that happen that would appaul general population, but it is all part of the game that is war. Always has been, always will be...the truth of the matter is this. The general public has no need to know the half of what goes on. The general public wants to see staged scenes of their soldiers firing at invisible enemies and blowing up old buildings, they don't want to see or deal with the harshness or 'inhumanity' that war creates.

So should the soldiers in the pics be on trial?? No. Should their superiors who want information from the enemy at any cost be on trial? No.
Should the media who have taken 95% of us to a place we have no knowledge of or concept of be made acocuntable for their decision to show the world a side of war not often reported? Yes.

The actions may be seen by a lot of us as wrong, and if you did it in your own home, you should be strung up, but war isn't day to day life, it is a bloody, dirty and loud place where senses are tested, minds are strecthed and bodies are tired. Answers are needed quickly and are best obtained by some 'unconventional' methods...people need to realise it isn't a ****en knitting circle over htere

Originally posted by Nuno
Put yourself in their shoes, Purity. These soldiers have been blinded by propaganda their entire lives. They are fighting for what they think is right. **** we invaded them out of the blue for no good reason. Just because we ASSumed they had WMD. Now we're supposed to be liberating them. Yeah, OK. All the US did by attacking Iraq was create more hate.

And you gotta be a damn fool to take pictures of your torture victims. Ecspecially if you're a US soldier.

Okay, let's get one thing straight here. We didn't go in with ASSUPMTIONS of WMDs. We went in with intelligence that has turned out to be bad information, but we aren't that bad that we go in and invade a country based on an assumption.

Originally posted by seldomTap
I have only read half of this thread, but am going to put in my 2 cents cause I a probably one of the few that has been trained in interrogation and POW handling and has realistic expectations of what should and should not happen.

Let me start with this...

It is common practice for the Australian SAS to 'kidnap' soldiers from other units for a few dyas at a time for interrogation training. Basically, they bag your head, zip tie your hands behind your back, strip you and make you sit on a mat, while they do pretty much as they please. They have have female Intel officers or MPs come in and laugh at you, dogs barking inches away from you, all while you are blindfolded and ****ting yourself.
The practice works both ways, it serves to show soldiers how long they can handle this form of interrogation before they spill their guts, and it gives the SAS and intel guys practice at real time interrogations.

The Geneva convention is a long document with some well worded boundries, but basically, and as far as a court would be concerned, all you have to give a POW is shelter, clothing, food, water and time for their own religious beliefs. Other than that, knock yourself out. You have to also provide medical aid, so if you hurt them, you have to fix them, which is a pain in the ass for everyone.

When I saw those pics, I knew it would create some uproar, but in all honesty the only wrong part is it got caught on camera.

War is a harsh place and not for everyone. There is a select group of people that can function in a warzone, in a place where a lot of us cannot. There are things that happen that would appaul general population, but it is all part of the game that is war. Always has been, always will be...the truth of the matter is this. The general public has no need to know the half of what goes on. The general public wants to see staged scenes of their soldiers firing at invisible enemies and blowing up old buildings, they don't want to see or deal with the harshness or 'inhumanity' that war creates.

So should the soldiers in the pics be on trial?? No. Should their superiors who want information from the enemy at any cost be on trial? No.
Should the media who have taken 95% of us to a place we have no knowledge of or concept of be made acocuntable for their decision to show the world a side of war not often reported? Yes.

The actions may be seen by a lot of us as wrong, and if you did it in your own home, you should be strung up, but war isn't day to day life, it is a bloody, dirty and loud place where senses are tested, minds are strecthed and bodies are tired. Answers are needed quickly and are best obtained by some 'unconventional' methods...people need to realise it isn't a ****en knitting circle over htere



I am tierd of people using the excuse "this is war". Seldom, none of those pictures showed intelligence gathering. It showed some sick indivduals using other people for fun. Also, the reports of rape and other sexual assults have no place, reguardless of how you look at it.

Austrailia, America and all thoses countrys signed something called the geneva convention. Not following thoses codes and guildlines......thoses are war crimes and the people responesable should be punished

Originally posted by Creed
I am tierd of people using the excuse "this is war". Seldom, none of those pictures showed intelligence gathering. It showed some sick indivduals using other people for fun. Also, the reports of rape and other sexual assults have no place, reguardless of how you look at it.

Austrailia, America and all thoses countrys signed something called the geneva convention. Not following thoses codes and guildlines......thoses are war crimes and the people responesable should be punished

I agree with you on this one Creed. The people responsible should be punished. Not the whole country though. On the news, several people were interviewed and a few even said, those few individuals did not represent the whole country and it should not overshadow the good our country has done. These comments were from people of middle eastern descent.

As an American, I am disgusted by what our soliders did to the POW's and should be held responsible. Not even the excuse "We weren't trained properly" should be allowed as a defense. They should have known better by simple common sense and the fact that alot of high school students have learned the Geneva Convention. Now that's sad when high school students know it and the military personnel don't.

MCM, it all depends on how much the higher ranking officers knew. Is this the Commanders allowing this? Is it done by the lower ranking officers? The NCOs? Or just the rank and file.

Not that we will never know the full truth

US leaders have already admitted that there are as-yet-unreleased vids/photos of Iraqis being raped and murdered, not just humiliated.

Are rape and murder OK too?

Originally posted by computer fogie
US leaders have already admitted that there are as-yet-unreleased vids/photos of Iraqis being raped and murdered, not just humiliated.

Are rape and murder OK too?

apparently

Originally posted by Purity
**** guidelines. and **** setting an example. the world doesn't need an example. they can think for themselves and they're gonna do what they're gonna do regardless of us.

in my opinion, these hostile middle eastern countries will continue to zealously hate us more and more no matter WHAT. the hippies will continue to ***** no matter WHAT.

even if we adopt the talibanian lifestyle and every cheeseburger-munchin whiteboy starts bowing facedown to mohammed, they will hate us even more. then our allies will hate us. then everyone else will interpret us weak and it will all go to ****.

what i think we need to do is stay outta most of these world affairs to start with. BUT if we're involved then show no ****ing mercy.


hahahaha yeah I did **** off yesterday, it was a long stressful day... but still, you calling me a cunt at the top of your voice has cheered me up this morning. HIGH FIVE!!!1

1) '**** guidelines'? - these guidelines are put in place for the good of pows.... but you say **** them? That's plain silly and any pow in history would no doubt like to cut your balls off for putting that forward.

2) You mean; 'The history of US foreign policies has led a lot of people to distrust the US and this will go on for a while... and while I'm putting forward stupid *arguments* like these, people will always disagree with me.'

3) That's baseless. But at least you don't want to look weak on the international stage... there's a pure motive right there.

4) 'No mercy'? Are you tripping? You must be trying to come across like a toughguy, but you sound like a prize plum.

Originally posted by Purity
good news- we've been beatin the ****ing piss outt've em
bad news- once again, the world's upset with us

when you are a prisoner of war you have no rights.
Incorrect.

The Geneva Convention specifically prohibits such behaviour. Infact, the US Government was instrumental in it's last ratification back in 1949.

The US is clearly in violation of international law. Either that or it has once again decided what laws it wishes to follow.

Take your pick.

I be the land of the double post. Arrr.

Originally posted by Creed
MCM, it all depends on how much the higher ranking officers knew. Is this the Commanders allowing this? Is it done by the lower ranking officers? The NCOs? Or just the rank and file.

Not that we will never know the full truth

Low man on totem pole will take the brunt of the weight.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo
hahahaha yeah I did **** off yesterday, it was a long stressful day... but still, you calling me a cunt at the top of your voice has cheered me up this morning.
you hearin voices through yer screen? who's callin what at the top of their head? and when did i call you a cunt? oh this must be more of our interpretation class.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

1) '**** guidelines'? - these guidelines are put in place for the good of pows.... but you say **** them? That's plain silly and any pow in history would no doubt like to cut your balls off for putting that forward.
i'm not saying '**** pows'. i'm saying that these guidelines were created to keep the common man happy so that the common man has less of a reason to question the brutalities of real war. these rules are never followed, and never have been. i'm simply saying that people shouldn't act so shocked about those facts.

and, no. any pow would realize that it's true because every pow out there has been severely ****ed up by the enemy through the means of bended rules. especially our troops when they were caught by these foreign ****s who have never had respect since day one.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

2) You mean; 'The history of US foreign policies has led a lot of people to distrust the US and this will go on for a while... and while I'm putting forward stupid *arguments* like these, people will always disagree with me.'
no i mean what i said. i understand that, yet another of your interpretations may sound like i'm saying stupid **** but the only reason it sounds stupid is because you got in the middle of it.
how is it that you manage to **** up what i'm conveying when it's written down in writing.
are the words fuzzy?
smudged?
do you have a lotta dust on the screen?
bad electrical connection?

y' know, rather than trying to play miss cleo and read my mind for what you THINK i'm trying to say, why don't you just try reading what i actually said and then give your opinion on it? trying to manipulate someone's words & take shots at them personally is ****in weak. geeze, you might as well point out my spelling errors while yer at it.


Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

3) That's baseless. But at least you don't want to look weak on the international stage... there's a pure motive right there.
baseless? it's a natural human tendency to automatically take kindness for weakness. especially when the kindness is extended by the party in power. so OF COURSE you don't wanna look weak on the international stage! c'mon now. do you know anything about leadership? maybe you should go play a few games of chess and then come back.
Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

4) 'No mercy'? Are you tripping? You must be trying to come across like a toughguy, but you sound like a prize plum.
yer the guy talkin all this tough man ****. i'm speakin my mind and telling you where i'm coming from about a political issue. but once again, you've completely dodged the issue and tried insulting me personnally, when you don't even know me personally, so even though i don't know YOU personally i can't still conclude that this person i'm respnding to is one jack of a muther****ing ass for judging the character of a man he's never met.

Originally posted by madcrewmom
Okay, let's get one thing straight here. We didn't go in with ASSUPMTIONS of WMDs. We went in with intelligence that has turned out to be bad information, but we aren't that bad that we go in and invade a country based on an assumption.

Intelligence that ends up being bad.....riiiiiight. Either they assumed or they were trying to mislead us from their true motives.

MCM, you shouldn't believe everything the government says...

Originally posted by Purity
torture is sadistic but we've been here before nuno. i believe you have to make short term sacrifices for long term benefit.

if i'm in grade school and bully starts pickin on me, i'm gonna ****in punch him regardless. now that bully may kick my ass right there on the spot BUT, chances are, he's gonna respect me and never give me **** again. this opposed to letting myself get teased and ridiculed for years on end because i was too afraid to endure a couple bruises and scrapes.

short term sacrifice for long term benefit. this above example is being used towards the arguement of torture and NOT for any other arguement in regards to the war in iraq.

I'm not understaning your example. How is homosexuality gonna help our soldiers image in the long run. I wouldn't have cared if they were beating them, but they're acting like homos.

Your also missing the point, Purity. If the US wants to be percieved as the good guys, then they need to follow the rules. **** like this just fuels hate against us. It's bad enough that we have no business being in Iraq.

so if there were no WMD's then why'd the stupid ****er all of a sudden refuse to let the inspectors through? why'd he stop cooperating? ESPECIALLY at a time when America was still pretty hot-headed over 911.

look at him now! he's a rundown wreck of a prisoner! why?? if you didn't have WMD's, yet lived a lavish & powerful lifestyle, would you give it ALL UP just because you're tired of having these nosey inspectors hangin around?

no. the only logic behind this, aside from some right-wing conspiracy, is that he's a complete ****ing psycho. he wanted war on his people just as bad as bush wanted to bring it.

Originally posted by Purity
so if there were no WMD's then why'd the stupid ****er all of a sudden refuse to let the inspectors through? why'd he stop cooperating? ESPECIALLY at a time when America was still pretty hot-headed over 911.

look at him now! he's a rundown wreck of a prisoner! why?? if you didn't have WMD's, yet lived a lavish & powerful lifestyle, would you give it ALL UP just because you're tired of having these nosey inspectors hangin around?

no. the only logic behind this, aside from some right-wing conspiracy, is that he's a complete ****ing psycho. he wanted war on his people just as bad as bush wanted to bring it.

What's your point?

Originally posted by Nuno
I'm not understaning your example. How is homosexuality gonna help our soldiers image in the long run. I wouldn't have cared if they were beating them, but they're acting like homos.
since people don't like things rammed up their ass, then we're gonna ram clubs up their asses to make their experience more miserable.
just because you don't like things that are homo doesn't mean that they're not accomplishing the goal of torturing these ****splats.

Originally posted by Nuno

Your also missing the point, Purity. If the US wants to be percieved as the good guys, then they need to follow the rules. **** like this just fuels hate against us. It's bad enough that we have no business being in Iraq.
i say **** trying to be the good guy. i've been saying it all along. if you're in a leadership position then you have to be a leader and, unfortunately, you can't always be johnny-niceguy. that's like a dad afraid to smack his kid when the kid tells his mom to shut up.

instead of trying to open ourselves up to every form of critism out there, we need to have this goal:
be nicer to those that are nice to us while being crueler to those who are cruel to us.
remember that movie swordfish? what'd he say..."for every plane you bomb, we blow yer ****in airport. hit em so hard that they can't even consider the thought of retaliation."

You *******s are making me want to actually work instead of post:cuss:

If you claim that you're going into a country to free their citizens from oppresion and tiranny, you can't mistreat the POWs. Just as simple as that... You can't be "JohnnY-Nice guy" everytime, but the U.S. HAS TO because we went in there trying to be the good guys.
Even the American POWs from the first Gulf War are saying that they're outraged by the actions of few and they're hoping that these soldiers get what they deserve.

Originally posted by Purity
since people don't like things rammed up their ass, then we're gonna ram clubs up their asses to make their experience more miserable.
just because you don't like things that are homo doesn't mean that they're not accomplishing the goal of torturing these ****splats.
It's still gay and bad for our soldiers image.

Originally posted by Purity
i say **** trying to be the good guy. i've been saying it all along. if you're in a leadership position then you have to be a leader and, unfortunately, you can't always be johnny-niceguy. that's like a dad afraid to smack his kid when the kid tells his mom to shut up.
But the US is trying to be Johnny Niceguy by "liberating the Iraqis."

Originally posted by Purity
instead of trying to open ourselves up to every form of critism out there, we need to have this goal:
be nicer to those that are nice to us while being crueler to those who are cruel to us.
remember that movie swordfish? what'd he say..."for every plane you bomb, we blow yer ****in airport. hit em so hard that they can't even consider the thought of retaliation."

So how was this torture retaliation? Just curious.

Originally posted by Nuno
What's your point?

i'm sick of people throwing the blame solely on us. how many ultimatims did we give that *******? how many times did we get a middle finger reply?

Actually, Iraq allowed UN inspector to go in the country and look for weapons of "mass Destruction". they didn't find any.

No country in the world is gonna back down from another, it is a matter of Pride, son. Contrary to what some people think the US is not in charge of the world, the UN is. The US is a main player in the UN. In this particular case the UN saw no reason to go into Iraq, and President Bush opted to go in without the backing of the UN.
I am not saying Iraq is right, but I can't blame them for giving us the big, fat middle finger... We invaded them.

I don't think that they are pissed b/c we invaded them..b/c what we did was liberate them...I think they are pissed b/c we are still over there and now that they are liberated they want to be left alone.

Well they did let the Inspectors check things out. Nothing was found. we called them liars and attacked. I can understand the middle finger reply.

Originally posted by Mr. Beelzebub
Actually, Iraq allowed UN inspector to go in the country and look for weapons of "mass Destruction". they didn't find any.

No country in the world is gonna back down from another, it is a matter of Pride, son. Contrary to what some people think the US is not in charge of the world, the UN is. The US is a main player in the UN. In this particular case the Un saw no reason to go into Iraq, and President Bush opted to go in with the backing of the UN.
I am not saying Iraq is right, but I can't blame them for giving us the big, fat middle finger... We invaded them.

Damn, I gotta be quicker. You said the same thing I did, with a little more text.

Well, I am not saying they are pissed because we invaded them. What I was trying to say was that Saddam gave the US the middle finger because we were acting alone, He allowed UN inspectors to go in Iraq... It is childish to think that because we gave him a chance to surrender now it's ok to torture whoever we feel like torturing, that way of thinking doesn't even makes sense to me.
Since we acted alone, now is in our best interest to treat the POw as best as possible and don't tarnish our image even more. The world is not called the USA, sir. We do have allies and we do need them. We have to get along with them, your dictator way of thinking is amusing in a 6 year old, but not in a grown man.
There's something called diplomacy, gentlemen enforce it (as corny as that sounds), we can't go imposing our will everytime we feel like it; it doesn't work that way and you know it. That is why your ranting about it.
The soldiers that mistreated POWs will be prosecuted and most likely discharged, like it or not. We are moving forward in this world sir. FORWARD in this WORLD.

Solution=Ross Perot!!!

Originally posted by Mr. Beelzebub
Well, I am not saying they are pissed because we invaded them. What I was trying to say was that Saddam gave the US the middle finger because we were acting alone, He allowed UN inspectors to go in Iraq... It is childish to think that because we gave him a chance to surrender now it's ok to torture whoever we feel like torturing, that way of thinking doesn't even makes sense to me.
Since we acted alone, now is in our best interest to treat the POw as best as possible and don't tarnish our image even more. The world is not called the USA, sir. We do have allies and we do need them. We have to get along with them, your dictator way of thinking is amusing in a 6 year old, but not in a grown man.
There's something called diplomacy, gentlemen enforce it (as corny as that sounds), we can't go imposing our will everytime we feel like it; it doesn't work that way and you know it. That is why your ranting about it.
The soldiers that mistreated POWs will be prosecuted and most likely discharged, like it or not. We are moving forward in this world sir. FORWARD in this WORLD.

You sir have ***** slapped the correct!

Originally posted by nickeboy9
Solution=Ross Perot!!!

:- l

































:)

That face is gonna haunt me in my sleep!!

Enough of this bro, back to my old self.

Google search: Veronica Zemanova



BRB, fool.

She got BOMBS!!!

or as my good friend would say..HAMMAS!!!

Originally posted by Mr. Beelzebub
Well, I am not saying they are pissed because we invaded them. What I was trying to say was that Saddam gave the US the middle finger because we were acting alone, He allowed UN inspectors to go in Iraq... It is childish to think that because we gave him a chance to surrender now it's ok to torture whoever we feel like torturing, that way of thinking doesn't even makes sense to me.
Since we acted alone, now is in our best interest to treat the POw as best as possible and don't tarnish our image even more. The world is not called the USA, sir. We do have allies and we do need them. We have to get along with them, your dictator way of thinking is amusing in a 6 year old, but not in a grown man.
There's something called diplomacy, gentlemen enforce it (as corny as that sounds), we can't go imposing our will everytime we feel like it; it doesn't work that way and you know it. That is why your ranting about it.
The soldiers that mistreated POWs will be prosecuted and most likely discharged, like it or not. We are moving forward in this world sir. FORWARD in this WORLD.

figures. the moment i get busy @ work then everyone decides to post feedback. and good feedback too. so i've decided to reply to this one for the time being and then i'll try to get to the others throughout the day.

i didn't hear anything about saddam allowing the inspectors to continue to come in. never heard about that once. at the same time, i think it's fair to say that of course we're in this war for alterior motives. but i'm not necessarilly backing up the cause for the war, my whole point was that i back up the mistreatment of the iraqi pows (although i did sidetrack it for a second by bringing up the wmds).

i'll also agree that it makes you look hypocritical to the rest of the world when you release photos like that, while trying to portray the "let's set everyone free & make everyone happy" image.

sure it's not right to mistreat pows. it's also not right to shoot people but this is **** that happens in war. hell, we did the same **** to the nazis when we caught them, yet i don't hear anyone complaining. why do people need to cite unfairness once they actually see footage. EVERYONE knows that war is hell. why the shock?

pows have to be mistreated. sorry you hate to hear it but this is the real world. it may be **** but that's too bad. humans have to be tortured at times, a-bombs had to be dropped at times, and innocent families have to die.
does that mean i'm happy to see it done? no.
does that mean that i'll have no problem should it be done to me or a loved one? no

but i'm not gonna be some traumatized little ***** about it either. i'm not gonna cry FAIR RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE everytime something sad happens. i don't give a **** what you think the forefathers intended, don't give a **** what our reps say in press conferences, don't give a **** what's in these drawn out rules of the constitution, bill of rights, or anything else. the fact remains that bad **** will happen regardless so to have this "walk in the park" attitude in order to appease the rest of the world and yourself is unrealistic, and is as good as lying to the rest of the world & yourself.

Originally posted by Purity
figures. the moment i get busy @ work then everyone decides to post feedback. and good feedback too. so i've decided to reply to this one for the time being and then i'll try to get to the others throughout the day.

i didn't hear anything about saddam allowing the inspectors to continue to come in. never heard about that once. at the same time, i think it's fair to say that of course we're in this war for alterior motives. but i'm not necessarilly backing up the cause for the war, my whole point was that i back up the mistreatment of the iraqi pows (although i did sidetrack it for a second by bringing up the wmds).

i'll also agree that it makes you look hypocritical to the rest of the world when you release photos like that, while trying to portray the "let's set everyone free & make everyone happy" image.

sure it's not right to mistreat pows. it's also not right to shoot people but this is **** that happens in war. hell, we did the same **** to the nazis when we caught them, yet i don't hear anyone complaining. why do people need to cite unfairness once they actually see footage. EVERYONE knows that war is hell. why the shock?

pows have to be mistreated. sorry you hate to hear it but this is the real world. it may be **** but that's too bad. humans have to be tortured at times, a-bombs had to be dropped at times, and innocent families have to die.
does that mean i'm happy to see it done? no.
does that mean that i'll have no problem should it be done to me or a loved one? no

but i'm not gonna be some traumatized little ***** about it either. i'm not gonna cry FAIR RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE everytime something sad happens. i don't give a **** what you think the forefathers intended, don't give a **** what our reps say in press conferences, don't give a **** what's in these drawn out rules of the constitution, bill of rights, or anything else. the fact remains that bad **** will happen regardless so to have this "walk in the park" attitude in order to appease the rest of the world and yourself is unrealistic, and is as good as lying to the rest of the world & yourself.

They broke the law by tourturing POWS Tony. Laws the US supported and was a major influince in getting it written into international law. How can you say that they shouldn't follow thoses laws Tony? You can't pick and choose what laws you follow. Its a matter of fact. Tourturing POWs is a war crime. The people responsable for war crimes should be brought to trail. How much this will effect my view on iraq is how high up this went.

Its already effected the worlds opinion Tony. And yes, america needs to worry about the worlds opinon. You aren't a vigilantie in the world Tony. Also, a lie was used to start this war, how can you not except the world to think america is lying now?

Originally posted by Nuno
It's still gay and bad for our soldiers image.

i don't think the majority of people are gonna see that **** and question the sexuality of our soldiers

Originally posted by Nuno

But the US is trying to be Johnny Niceguy by "liberating the Iraqis." true. don't worry. that **** won't happen when i take over

Originally posted by Nuno

So how was this torture retaliation? Just curious.
the "retaliation" i was referring to was the potential retaliation that the opposition would naturally come back at you with if they didn't get ****ed up well enough in the first place

You know why it disgusts me? Because I think you have to be a sadistic individual to torture another human being. Ecspecially when it's out of cruelty and not for interrogation. The proud smirk on their faces in those pictures sickened me.

Like it or not, the US has an image to live up to. **** like this is unacceptable.

I gotta work now....I'll be back later...

Your answers are disappointing me, Tony. You either really busy or have run out of answers.

all i gotta say is if you think that we are mistreating the iraqi captives then SHUT THE **** UP (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq)

these people are animals, their hypocracy extends FAR beyond anything that America or the UN has, this has been proven time and time again through their consistent acts of self-genocide. they prove to the rest of the world that they are not humans, therefore do not deserve to be treated like humans, therefore deserve to be eradicated.

Originally posted by Purity
all i gotta say is if you think that we are mistreating the iraqi captives then SHUT THE **** UP (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq)

these people are animals, their hypocracy extends FAR beyond anything that America or the UN has, this has been proven time and time again through their consistent acts of self-genocide. they prove to the rest of the world that they are not humans, therefore do not deserve to be treated like humans, therefore deserve to be eradicated.

Tony, I never thought I would say this but your talking out of your ass. They deserve to be eradicated? Thats a very ugly thing you just said.

alot of good points.

i know purity comes off like an ******* who hates everything out of the US, but his points are valid. i just read the "shut the **** up" link..... and i can totally see why purity gives the answers that he gives. and i agree, **** em all. period.

So, if you say **** them all, then is it ok for iraqis to say **** them all and start hi-jacking airplanes, setting off suitcase bombs, poisoning the water ect. I mean, since we have agreed to **** everyone else.....is it ok for them to do the same?

Originally posted by Purity
all i gotta say is if you think that we are mistreating the iraqi captives then SHUT THE **** UP (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq)

these people are animals, their hypocracy extends FAR beyond anything that America or the UN has, this has been proven time and time again through their consistent acts of self-genocide. they prove to the rest of the world that they are not humans, therefore do not deserve to be treated like humans, therefore deserve to be eradicated.

You've helped my point with this post. Hate breeds hate. That article is proof. That man payed for the actions of a few idiotic soldiers.

" Photographs of Iraqi prisoners being humiliated have reverberated throughout the Arab world and have intensified anti-Western sentiment."

the middle eastern religious radicals do not want peace. they cannot comprehend the concept of it. they will never have it because they have indoctrined themselves and their ways of living towards beliefs underlining their entire purpose is to die.

if we stay in iraq- death
if we leave- death
if we give saddam his power back- death

all 3 potential solutions result in dead arab extremists. it will never end. and they won't just let us ignore **** and leave em alone because they are the ones who feel it destined to kill US off because they think we're the devil.

that's why they need to be wiped out. get em off this planet. don't nuke em cause that will make other countries *****. ****in spread a plague over there. quarantine em & trap em there so they can die off. cover it up. bye bye. illuminati style.

sound brutal & hatefilled? not really, just tired of sweeping problems under the rug. sound like hitler? no because hitler wiped out people because of racial reasons. i propose wiping out hostile people because they cannot comprehend how to live in peace. do it smart & do it quick and move on.

Originally posted by Creed
So, if you say **** them all, then is it ok for iraqis to say **** them all and start hi-jacking airplanes, setting off suitcase bombs, poisoning the water ect. I mean, since we have agreed to **** everyone else.....is it ok for them to do the same?

They've already done this. Of course its not okay for them to do the same.... but you're not getting it..... they don't give a **** whats right and whats wrong. Never have. And here we are, like a bunch of dumbass', catering to a bunch of hippy, tree huggin sissys (like yourself and Nuno), to be civil when we are dealing with our enemy.

Put it like this, if I see some **** out on the street throwing rocks at me, I'll keep walking. One of those rocks hits me, I'm hitting him back. There is only so much that you can ignore and bypass.

and if i ignore him then he's just gonna pound himself in the head with rocks if he's not chuckin them at me.

so get him the **** outta my neighborhood.

We're already killing the **** out of them and that's fine by me, but by humiliating them and then letting the pics get on CNN we're only hurting America. A soldier is supposed to capture and kill, when they make POW's pose in gay pics like that and than mug for the camera that's only going to garner support for the enemy and make us more enemies and possibly draw this war out longer. I think we should just go in there, do what we're supposed to do , KNOCK OFF the stupid, ****ing moronic jack assery and taking ****ing PICS of it so that America looks like ****......and get the **** out of there with a hefty oil interest so that my gas gets cheaper and I get to quit listening to every single one of your ****tarded worth less than old dog **** opinons on politics and war.

Its a shame that the perverse acts of some soldiers lead to the anwer of the innocent beheaded american.

Originally posted by Mr. Beelzebub
Actually, Iraq allowed UN inspector to go in the country and look for weapons of "mass Destruction". they didn't find any.



They were given LIMITED access. You can't find something if they keep moving it or won't allow you to look where it's hidden.

The only WMD are inside of baby bush brains!

Originally posted by Piedra
Its a shame that the perverse acts of some soldiers lead to the anwer of the innocent beheaded american.

On this I agree.

Originally posted by madcrewmom
They were given LIMITED access. You can't find something if they keep moving it or won't allow you to look where it's hidden.

It's even harder to find something that isn't there. I don't think even Bush ever really believed they had WMD. They do have lots of oil though. I sure hope my gas prices go down soon, I paid $2.35 a gallon yesterday.

Originally posted by DOGGx0
They've already done this. Of course its not okay for them to do the same.... but you're not getting it..... they don't give a **** whats right and whats wrong. Never have. And here we are, like a bunch of dumbass', catering to a bunch of hippy, tree huggin sissys (like yourself and Nuno), to be civil when we are dealing with our enemy.

Put it like this, if I see some **** out on the street throwing rocks at me, I'll keep walking. One of those rocks hits me, I'm hitting him back. There is only so much that you can ignore and bypass.

And why was that guy throwing rocks at you? Because you said something about his girlfriend. Why did you say something about his girlfriend? Because she was *****ing at you yesterday. Why was she *****ing at you? Because you were being a dickhead. Why were you being a dickhead? What are you talking about, no I wasn't. Yes you were! NO I WASN'T! YES YOU WERE!

Its and endless cycle and no one can ever agree on where it started. Well guess what Adam, our leaders might have to stop throwing thoses rocks if we ever want this to end. We need to stop supporting leaders that make the policies and take the actions that start the giant snowball of killing we are dealing with now. We started the problem in iraq, afghganistan and all the places like that. Why? Because we ethier a) wanted oil and decided to put someone in power that would give it to us at a discount or b) Were so afraid of the communist that we were willing support power mad dictators who came to power using western weapons and money and a pile of corpses.

We started all of the **** thats going on right now. Before 90% of us were born (most of us are 20 something).

Originally posted by Purity
i'm speakin my mind and telling you where i'm coming from about a political issue. but once again, you've completely dodged the issue

Relax, bud. Sure, I'm concluding that you're a muppet without having met you. That kinda sucks, huh?

Look. Basically, the problem I have with your position is that you have resigned yourself to the conclusion that war crimes will always happen and that we shouldn't be bothered by it.

I have no doubt that in other spheres of human life you strive to improve the situation - or do you not? You're right, I don't know you, maybe you do resign yourself to indifference about human suffering in all its forms.

If that is the case, I don't respect your point of view - or you, by extension...

If you do actually care about human suffering away from warfare, then I'd urge you to be consistent by condemning these abuses that have taken place in Iraq.

That ****in makes sense. Your call.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo
Relax, bud. Sure, I'm concluding that you're a muppet without having met you. That kinda sucks, huh?
not as long as i can be Animal.
Animal kicks ass on those drums. i think he was based on john bonham.

Originally posted by Mr Boogaloo

Look. Basically, the problem I have with your position is that you have resigned yourself to the conclusion that war crimes will always happen and that we shouldn't be bothered by it.

I have no doubt that in other spheres of human life you strive to improve the situation - or do you not? You're right, I don't know you, maybe you do resign yourself to indifference about human suffering in all its forms.

If that is the case, I don't respect your point of view - or you, by extension...

If you do actually care about human suffering away from warfare, then I'd urge you to be consistent by condemning these abuses that have taken place in Iraq.

That ****in makes sense. Your call.

i guess my base is that war is ****ty & gruesome but when yer faced with it then you gotta do whatcha gotta do to win. when you're fighting an enemy that has no regards for rules & you continue to incorporate these rules then yer just gonna watch yourself get plucked off.

Originally posted by Purity
Animal kicks ass on those drums.

Hey, sweet! We agree on something! HOLA!

Originally posted by Purity i guess my base is that war is ****ty & gruesome but when yer faced with it then you gotta do whatcha gotta do to win. [/B]

Come on! You don't have to abuse prisoners to win!

Originally posted by Purity when you're fighting an enemy that has no regards for rules & you continue to incorporate these rules then yer just gonna watch yourself get plucked off. [/B]

Being able to conduct yourself in a way that you can be proud of no matter what other people do is what seperates the men from the boys.

this isn't a chivalry contest. when your enemies make absolutely no attempt whatsoever to separate soldiers from civilians and demonstrate the most brutalistic forms of protest then you will LOSE the WAR if you continue to fight it the traditional way.

one of the many reasons the American patriots were able to win the revolutionary war against the british was through the use of guerrilla tactics. this method that we learned from the indians plucked off grips of lobsterbacks because they were used to the traditional "hey lets all meet in a field and shoot eachother out in the open" form of battle.
hell, you can look at guerrilla warfare back then from a british point of view and probably feel the same frustration that we are feeling towards the terrorists right now. it's simple- they are using a form of battle that, not only are we unacustom to thwarting, but that can empower the most common of man. no longer does the country with the biggest/strongest military and money remain untouchable.

we need to fight the right battle.
if a country starts exporting more of their **** then we are and our ecomonic stance is threatend then we need to win an economic battle by taking economic strategies.
same with military struggles. they bomb pearl harbor, we nuke hiroshima and even those psycho diehard kamakazee muther****ers surrendered immediately because we hit them so ****ing hard at their own game that they couldn't possibly consider an ongoing fight.

we need to do the same to terrorism. the only difference is that this has to BE OUT OF THE PUBLIC EYE. play the same game, beat them at the tactic that they brought upon the world, but beat them so hard & so brutal & so quick that nobody will ever consider pullin terrorist bull**** again.

How you can equate the revolutionary tactics of guerrilla warfare with abusing prisoners is beyond me.

i was actually equating it with wiping out the entire area. not just abusing prisoners.

i say americans as a whole just get together and fly over there and hand deliver them boquets of roses. then when we're friends again, we can sit around a fire and sing songs together.

There is nothing wrong with walking pows on leashes and creating naked pyramids with iraqis. I would inject them with pork juice to insure they do not go to the afterlife.

secondly i hold the people that sent the pics out responsible for the decapitation and all further POW deaths

Originally posted by Bzob
There is nothing wrong with walking pows on leashes and creating naked pyramids with iraqis. I would inject them with pork juice to insure they do not go to the afterlife.

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
BEST POST IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF OFF-TOPIC!!!!!

Originally posted by Bzob
secondly i hold the people that sent the pics out responsible for the decapitation and all further POW deaths

Agreed. They should have kept it out of the media and dealt with them in private.

EDIT.

??

I'm gonna go across the line and shoot me some yankees tommorra. Anyone wanna come with?

im a yankee, but i'll definitely help you. i ****ing hate america

Under islamic law the penalization for raping is castration, if the pictures of the iraqui soldiers being sodomized by the troops are shown to the world, many americans are in danger. And the only responsible for this, is going to be bush, for any attack on civilians.

ok so what did bush do in regards to the 911 attack that killed over 3,500 civilians?

what does it take to get you folks to realize that these people don't CARE what we do. as long as we continue to live within a capitalistic society then we will always be on the list for terrorists. they want war, they want death, and they want suffering. they do not comprehend the concepts of peace.

trying to justify their bull**** and say that our harsh policies are the reason why we see these attacks is ****ing lame. they've been doing the same since day 1.
so why are we seeing more attack? because the media is giving them the attention. it's the same reason why child kidnappings, school shootings, and church burnings all became EXTREMELY abundant.....right after the major media exposure.

you don't see us negotiating with termites? you don't see us trying to walk them outt've the house. we're not appologizing to the homeowner because a few termites got killed when they refused to march out. no. we wrap a tent around the pad and exterminate the entire infestation.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040515/mdf567906.jpg

look at these people. kill them. bring out their families and torture them in fronna their eyes. make em watch it and then dismember em all.
if you think that dragging bodies in streets and beheadings are bad, **** that!

look at those people in that photo. they want to die. BUT they want to take as many of us down with em as possible. we can't just kill em because that'll encourage more of them to be martyrs. i say we put them through so much suffering and agony that they can't comprehend martyrism.

you say they live in poverty, are brainwashed, & have nothing to lose? oh i'm pretty sure there are methods of death & torture out there to discourage a good 85% of em. make it quick, make it hard, and most importantly....make the rest of the world completely clueless about it.

purity is correct

I have not really read this thread, but honestley I could not give two ****s about the american soldiers embarredssing the iraqi terrorist prisoners. They did what, put bags over their heads and took off thier clothes, put a leash around thier neck. do you realize what used to happen in Iraq to prisoners they were ****ing beaten and mutilated and tortured and executed and thier prisoners were not just criminals the prisoners were anyone who spoke out against the government. Where the **** were all you bleeding heart liberal pieces of ****s then???????????

September 11, what did your goverment did? Invade Afghanistan in order to find Osama Bin Laden. No in order to control an strategical zone, and construct oleoducts. Almost all of the terrorist were from Saudi Arabia, and the army did nothing there why? because they provide the biggest amount of oil to the USA.
Almost 70 per cent of war conflicts are due to oil, so a lunatic ordering attacks to the middle-west, wont solve a thing. And unfortunately the foreign policies of your country affect the whole world, take as an example Spain.

Originally posted by Kempo Chris
purity is correct

I have not really read this thread, but honestley I could not give two ****s about the american soldiers embarredssing the iraqi terrorist prisoners. They did what, put bags over their heads and took off thier clothes, put a leash around thier neck. do you realize what used to happen in Iraq to prisoners they were ****ing beaten and mutilated and tortured and executed and thier prisoners were not just criminals the prisoners were anyone who spoke out against the government. Where the **** were all you bleeding heart liberal pieces of ****s then???????????

Yes and what about the rapings of iraqui soldier and the massacred civilians in Iraq? Nick Berg was kept under interrogation by the american goverment in iraq, they left him without his passport. Thats simply and plain murder, its a shame that innocent people pay the prize for a bunch of ambitious people.

because the only way that a democracy succeeds is if the people are completely manipulated into thinking that everything's alright. the moment the leaders start telling the truth and apologizing the more the people get pissed off.

people, in nature, hate to be told the honest truth. 95% of them just want to be lead. they want to feel important & informed....yet they still wanna be bossed around. if we were to run the system by honestly giving the choice to the people then the entire system would collapse.

Originally posted by Purity
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040515/mdf567906.jpg

look at these people. kill them. bring out their families and torture them in fronna their eyes. make em watch it and then dismember em all.
if you think that dragging bodies in streets and beheadings are bad, **** that!

look at those people in that photo. they want to die. BUT they want to take as many of us down with em as possible. we can't just kill em because that'll encourage more of them to be martyrs. i say we put them through so much suffering and agony that they can't comprehend martyrism.

you say they live in poverty, are brainwashed, & have nothing to lose? oh i'm pretty sure there are methods of death & torture out there to discourage a good 85% of em. make it quick, make it hard, and most importantly....make the rest of the world completely clueless about it.

Of course fundamentalism is cancer for world peace, but also giving democracy to another country that didnt ask for it, is as bad as brainwashing.

Originally posted by Piedra
September 11, what did your goverment did? Invade Afghanistan in order to find Osama Bin Laden. No in order to control an strategical zone, and construct oleoducts. Almost all of the terrorist were from Saudi Arabia, and the army did nothing there why? because they provide the biggest amount of oil to the USA.
Almost 70 per cent of war conflicts are due to oil, so a lunatic ordering attacks to the middle-west, wont solve a thing. And unfortunately the foreign policies of your country affect the whole world, take as an example Spain.

i should have clarified. i meant, what specifically did we do PRIOR to 911? don't cite the oil greed because that was over 10 years prior.

Originally posted by Piedra
Of course fundamentalism is cancer for world peace, but also giving democracy to another country that didnt ask for it, is as bad as brainwashing.

then wipe em out. not the entire country but just the problem areas.

i mean, i'll agree that it's tough for a country to adapt to any form of change BUT german & japan did it and look at how well they flourish now! and don't even try to say that, just because they aren't accustomed to democracy, that democracy in itself will net them as much suffering and death as saddam OR the muslim influences have.

The intromission and support of your country in the palestinian conflict. Just tell me one thing, what does the USA gains by supporting Israel?

piedra you did not answer my question

do you realize what used to happen in Iraq to prisoners they were ****ing beaten and mutilated and tortured and executed and thier prisoners were not just criminals the prisoners were anyone who spoke out against the government. Where the **** were all you bleeding heart liberal pieces of ****s then???????????

I don't believe they are gaining anyhting - They are supporting a good country that has been going through a horriffic time

Originally posted by Piedra
Yes and what about the rapings of iraqui soldier and the massacred civilians in Iraq? Nick Berg was kept under interrogation by the american goverment in iraq, they left him without his passport. Thats simply and plain murder, its a shame that innocent people pay the prize for a bunch of ambitious people.

even IF what you're saying is 100% accurate, that is still a remote fraction in comparison to what the muslim radicals & bathe parties have done to their own people.

it's a shame that because of one dude left stranded & a few pow's are sexually humiliated that people can look at us like satan, yet forget some of the acts that these people have done to themselves throughout history & the dawn of time.
every other nation of people has had at least SOME periods of time where there was peace. yet ever since the death of mohammed there has not been a wink of it in the muslim nation. as a matter of fact, they divided immediately after he died.

Originally posted by Purity
then wipe em out. not the entire country but just the problem areas.

i mean, i'll agree that it's tough for a country to adapt to any form of change BUT german & japan did it and look at how well they flourish now! and don't even try to say that, just because they aren't accustomed to democracy, that democracy in itself will net them as much suffering and death as saddam OR the muslim influences have.

Do you mean the atomic bomb justifies democracy in Japan? About Germany they lose the war thats way they follow "the american way"

Originally posted by Purity
even IF what you're saying is 100% accurate, that is still a remote fraction in comparison to what the muslim radicals & bathe parties have done to their own people.

it's a shame that because of one dude left stranded & a few pow's are sexually humiliated that people can look at us like satan, yet forget some of the acts that these people have done to themselves throughout history & the dawn of time.
every other nation of people has had at least SOME periods of time where there was peace. yet ever since the death of mohammed there has not been a wink of it.

Nobody or just stupid people think the USA is satan(wich in the case of islamic fundamentalism is sadly true), what everybody is against is the foreign policies of Bush; why because it affects the whole world. Neo liberalism has only brought to the third world more and more poverty.

Originally posted by Piedra
Do you mean the atomic bomb justifies democracy in Japan?
it justified more than that. ok so we immediately wiped out 100's of thousands of lives. do you know what the other options were??? do you know how many more lives would have been lost on BOTH sides had we not done something drastic?
so if i gotta kill 1 guy to save 5 then you can bet there's gonna be one dead muther****er. i'm not gonna sit around with my thumb up my ass, sweep problems under the rug, and watch more and more die with absolutely no immediate resolution in ploy.

Originally posted by Piedra

About Germany they lose the war thats way they follow "the american way"
well, yeah. that's the concept. and i don't see too many unhappy germans grumbling about how much better their lives would have been under nazi rule.

what i DID see was some very HAPPY germans once the berlin wall was knocked down and they were able to live "the American way".

The USA its a superpotence no doubt about it, no nation in the whole world could make front to it. But its not acceptable that they abuse, due to their power. The only hope for this ****ty world, is that inside the USA people change their minds and make not a better world but a more harmonic one; how just not supporting belicist leaders. Conscience for humiliation, misery and suffering for other human beings.

Originally posted by Piedra
Nobody or just stupid people think the USA is satan(wich in the case of islamic fundamentalism is sadly true), what everybody is against is the foreign policies of Bush; why because it affects the whole world. Neo liberalism has only brought to the third world more and more poverty.

the majority may not think that we're satan. BUT the majority are becoming more & more convinced that we are losing our power because of our weak stance on this whole issue. that's my problem right there.

Originally posted by Piedra
The USA its a superpotence no doubt about it, no nation in the whole world could make front to it. But its not acceptable that they abuse, due to their power. The only hope for this ****ty world, is that inside the USA people change their minds and make not a better world but a more harmonic one; how just not supporting belicist leaders. Conscience for humiliation, misery and suffering for other human beings.

i don't agree.

Well peace brother as much as I dislike your president, I dislike mine. But I dont dislike you at all, and besides you know how to argue and not insult when it comes to politics.

same to you my friend.

awwww now kiss and make up

i will kick you sara

you always say that but you have yet to kick me.


you talk a lotta ****, fool. i'm ready, let's go. i'll kick your ass.

I like this woman. Tony, bring over more people from that saltwater fish forum

sorry, creed, but me n purity were the only cool people from that forum. the rest consisted of: 50 year old moms, mods with sticks permanantly stuck in their *******s, and 15 year old retarded children.

Originally posted by KittyKitty
sorry, creed, but me n purity were the only cool people from that forum. the rest consisted of: 50 year old moms, mods with sticks permanantly stuck in their *******s, and 15 year old retarded children.

We have a few moms here, and a few of the posters here qualify as retarded (myself in included on occassion). How did you two get banned from that place anyway?

Originally posted by Kempo Chris


I have not really read this thread, but honestley I could not give two ****s about the american soldiers embarredssing the iraqi terrorist prisoners. They did what, put bags over their heads and took off thier clothes, put a leash around thier neck. do you realize what used to happen in Iraq to prisoners they were ****ing beaten and mutilated and tortured and executed and thier prisoners were not just criminals the prisoners were anyone who spoke out against the government. Where the **** were all you bleeding heart liberal pieces of ****s then???????????

Originally posted by Creed
We have a few moms here, and a few of the posters here qualify as retarded (myself in included on occassion). How did you two get banned from that place anyway?

We were too brutally honest for the mods.

pretty much. obviously i know the basic rules of forums so i'm pretty sure i didn't break any. but i guess people just get sick of you. so you ****ers should be happy that at least the mods here give you the respect of answering questions that you have.


man, that reminded me. i remember i got a death threat over there the first couple days i was there. all i did was roust his dead dog and then he threatened to cut my throat. that ruled.

hahaha who was it

fishkiller. he's cool now but MAN, was it fun to rile him up.

they're really really really into dogs over there. it's a lil freaky actually

have you been there lately? it's getting really ****ing lame...

more lame than it was before, somehow.

lol and aaron is trying to be you now..

he is the trouble starter.

we gotta get aarone over here. i got him all into ultimate fighting too. had him download a vanderlei silva highlight vid and now he's tellin me that he's gonna start going to the gym so he can be like silva

Creed shut the **** up. A few people don't represent a whole country. What about when that canadian peace keeper in somalia who beat the **** out of that 15 year old that came on the army base to steal food. The kid died but it does't mean every canadian is going to beat the **** out of someobdy for stealing food. Some people are **** up. I doubt the orders came from higher up. Did you look at the woman in those pictures. She didn't look like the smartest person in service if you ask me.

Originally posted by handjobs4dollars
Creed shut the **** up. A few people don't represent a whole country. What about when that canadian peace keeper in somalia who beat the **** out of that 15 year old that came on the army base to steal food. The kid died but it does't mean every canadian is going to beat the **** out of someobdy for stealing food. Some people are **** up. I doubt the orders came from higher up. Did you look at the woman in those pictures. She didn't look like the smartest person in service if you ask me.

Dude, that soldier you are talking about was tried and convicted. The airbrone regiment he was part of was disbanded and sent home.

Also, there are differences in abuses POWs than killing one person. Its sad, but true. One is murder and is delt with by national law. The other is a breace of international law, the rules of engagement and abuse on that wide of a scale has to come from higher up G-man. And when the leaders of a county or countrys army are involved, it does reflect on that country. Espically in the case of Donald Rumsfield, because he is a member of the cabinet of the president the elected. If your leaders look like criminals, then the nation looks like criminals. The only way to fix that is to vote him out of office

Originally posted by Creed
Dude, that soldier you are talking about was tried and convicted. The airbrone regiment he was part of was disbanded and sent home.

Also, there are differences in abuses POWs than killing one person. Its sad, but true. One is murder and is delt with by national law. The other is a breace of international law, the rules of engagement and abuse on that wide of a scale has to come from higher up G-man. And when the leaders of a county or countrys army are involved, it does reflect on that country. Espically in the case of Donald Rumsfield, because he is a member of the cabinet of the president the elected. If your leaders look like criminals, then the nation looks like criminals. The only way to fix that is to vote him out of office

Can you be alittle more clear on this post. I don't understand what you're saying.

Originally posted by Kempo Chris
purity is correct

I have not really read this thread, but honestley I could not give two ****s about the american soldiers embarredssing the iraqi terrorist prisoners. They did what, put bags over their heads and took off thier clothes, put a leash around thier neck. do you realize what used to happen in Iraq to prisoners they were ****ing beaten and mutilated and tortured and executed and thier prisoners were not just criminals the prisoners were anyone who spoke out against the government. Where the **** were all you bleeding heart liberal pieces of ****s then???????????

Not to be a tool here Chris, cuz i like you, but the muslim culture is a culture of being modest. I have several muslim friends, imodesty is key.

Most muslims would ratherr get holes drilled into their bodiess, tourtured horribly ect, then get striped down naked and have sexual acts done on them and to them. the mere presence of a nakerd mnuslim person around another is a horrible thing in that culture.

We have a culture of hypersuxuality, they dont.

As a student of history i am just trrying to get a cultural perspective here that could help us understand the near east.

even better. degrade em to the lowest point possible.

There's no honor in that.

i prefer using honorable tactics towards honorable people. somehow i just don't get that vibe when you're sawing off the head of an innocent victim because of his heritage.

what you're suggesting is that i bring a football to a baseball game.

There was no honor in that act either. It was retaliation for the lack of honor that was shown to the iraqui prisoners.

As for your football to a baseball game thing....

Conduct yourself with respect. Do not stoop to their level or else you are no better than them.

well i see what you mean with the whole "act like bigger brother and be the better man" issue. normally that works.

but these people do not want honor. they do not want to be treated honorably. they do not want respect and they don't care about playing the global politics, nor will they ever appologize for anything ever. this is because their goal is to destroy everything that does not conform to their ways of living.

remember that they are the ones that go outt've their ways to commit terrorist acts on innocents for the sake of allah. we may be pretty ****ed up too when it comes to the whole war for oil thing BUT that's just one man's leadership controlling it.

eventually, he'll be out of office and i can almost bet that our influence in iraq will lesson until we finally let them do what they do best- kill eachother. and guess what, we'll still get the same terrorist outlashes and the same hatred thrown our way.

I think we should treat the POW's well simply because if we maintain the APPEARANCE of being just it will be easier to control their oil. If we keep coming off like bullies then the rest of the world will watch us through an even more intense microscope and will make achieving our objectives more difficult by creating even more anti-american sentiment, which we really don't need.

i agree with blue to an extent. i don't think the **** up was the treatment, but the leak

Why treat them badly though? If we just lock them up they are no longer a threat and you don't have to worry about the leaks which are inevitable. I don't give 2 ****s about the enemy, I just think it's more effective to adhere to the geneva convention(even if they don't) for reasons of perception and to avoid global criticism. It's just a more effective means to an end.

Originally posted by Purity
well i see what you mean with the whole "act like bigger brother and be the better man" issue. normally that works.

but these people do not want honor. they do not want to be treated honorably. they do not want respect and they don't care about playing the global politics, nor will they ever appologize for anything ever. this is because their goal is to destroy everything that does not conform to their ways of living.

remember that they are the ones that go outt've their ways to commit terrorist acts on innocents for the sake of allah. we may be pretty ****ed up too when it comes to the whole war for oil thing BUT that's just one man's leadership controlling it.

eventually, he'll be out of office and i can almost bet that our influence in iraq will lesson until we finally let them do what they do best- kill eachother. and guess what, we'll still get the same terrorist outlashes and the same hatred thrown our way.

We invaded Iraq, remember? That's reason enough to carry ourselves with some dignity.

Originally posted by Blue
Why treat them badly though? If we just lock them up they are no longer a threat and you don't have to worry about the leaks which are inevitable. I don't give 2 ****s about the enemy, I just think it's more effective to adhere to the geneva convention(even if they don't) for reasons of perception and to avoid global criticism. It's just a more effective means to an end.

Fully agreed Blue.

Originally posted by Blue
Why treat them badly though? If we just lock them up they are no longer a threat and you don't have to worry about the leaks which are inevitable. I don't give 2 ****s about the enemy, I just think it's more effective to adhere to the geneva convention(even if they don't) for reasons of perception and to avoid global criticism. It's just a more effective means to an end.

i disagree. people still remain threats while imprisoned. we all know that imprisonment just makes the prisoner worse 95% of the time. plus it gives a "release the prisoners" cause for the next ****ing terrorist/hostage gimmick that these jihads will pull.

course if it were up to me, there would be no prisoners. no negotiation material. all you'd see would be white flags stained red, signed, sealed, and delivered to the families of the lost.

and leaks are inevitable but to the degree of publisizing actual photos & videos of that **** to every person with access to a ****ing news channel??? that's just stupid.

So what should we do smartypants?

Originally posted by Nuno
We invaded Iraq, remember? That's reason enough to carry ourselves with some dignity.

it's a war. you kill people in wars. it's not pretty. why do you people keep falling back on the chivalry speal? do you honestly think that the realities of war are carried out in the manners that appear on press conferences and hollywood movies? have you ever talked to a war vet and had them tell you what really goes down in that ****?

Originally posted by Nuno
So what should we do smartypants?

i already answered that earlier in the thread. you didn't like the answer. what a dick.

Originally posted by Purity
i disagree. people still remain threats while imprisoned. we all know that imprisonment just makes the prisoner worse 95% of the time. plus it gives a "release the prisoners" cause for the next ****ing terrorist/hostage gimmick that these jihads will pull.

course if it were up to me, there would be no prisoners. no negotiation material. all you'd see would be white flags stained red, signed, sealed, and delivered to the families of the lost.

and leaks are inevitable but to the degree of publisizing actual photos & videos of that **** to every person with access to a ****ing news channel??? that's just stupid.

1. Maybe imprisoning does make people worse, but piling them into naked human pyramids will just add fuel to the fire. The bad treatment does nothing but make a bad situation worse.

2. Part of what makes America great is the fact that we have a free press, you can't just pick and choose like that. One minute say how much you love the country and then say you hate one of the best and most defining things about america. If we acted like I suggest, we'd achieve our objectives, adhere to our principals with out compromising our free press and employing nazi censorship tactics and we wouldn't have to worry about leaks because we didn't do anything wrong. It's just more effective than trying to justify the stupidity of those morons in our troops that acted in way that should not be tolerable. They have ****ed up their own country with their jack assery. If they did what they were supposed to do and not those useless shenanigans America would be better off.

Originally posted by Purity
i already answered that earlier in the thread. you didn't like the answer. what a dick.

You have no answer. You just keep trying to justify the "jack assery" that went on in there.

War is crazy, but even war has rules. Whether or not you follow those rules will effect how your country is viewed.

Accept the fact that there is no way to justify what those jackasses did.

i'd like to start off by complaining that you and nune-yo are no fun because you make me think. i wish you guys were more like creed and just spouted off like idiots.

Originally posted by Blue
1. Maybe imprisoning does make people worse, but piling them into naked human pyramids will just add fuel to the fire. The bad treatment does nothing but make a bad situation worse.
only when it's leaked to the masses

Originally posted by Blue

2. Part of what makes America great is the fact that we have a free press, you can't just pick and choose like that. One minute say how much you love the country and then say you hate one of the best and most defining things about america. If we acted like I suggest, we'd achieve our objectives, adhere to our principals with out compromising our free press and employing nazi censorship tactics and we wouldn't have to worry about leaks because we didn't do anything wrong. It's just more effective than trying to justify the stupidity of those morons in our troops that acted in way that should not be tolerable. They have ****ed up their own country with their jack assery. If they did what they were supposed to do and not those useless shenanigans America would be better off.

America would not be better off. the people who hate us would still have be hating us, terrorism would continue, and people would easily find another reason on why we're such bad, bad Americans. and you know what? it'll still carry on in that exact same manner once we pull outt've iraq.

and i'm not blaming the media's right to cover what they cover (although i hate the media more than hippies & jihads combined). of course they're gonna release everything they get their hands on. i'm saying that the only dip**** in this case was the dip**** that let those videos & pics fall into the media's hands.

If those troops(who I think are the exception) had not acted improperly, that dip**** never would have had the opportunity to leak those photos. And sure America will still be hated by many, but we're getting MORE hate because of incidents like that and not just from the crazies in the middle east. Like I said, I don't give a **** about those *******s we're fighting, but we're helping them out by making ourselves look bad. Also, I hate the media too, but they help keep the government in check. It's a necassary evil.

The dip****s are the ones who took the pictures and filmed the deeds as well as the idiots who performed these heinous acts. You can't deny that what they did only adds fuel to the fire.

We started this ****ing war and now we're stuck there and stuck with all the aftershocks it will bring. We should have just kept hunting Bin Laden and Al Quaeda.

Originally posted by Nuno
You have no answer. You just keep trying to justify the "jack assery" that went on in there.
just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. go back & read.

Originally posted by Nuno
War is crazy, but even war has rules.
if you show up to a gunfight with a knife then you are going to lose. now if the rules to the fight say "no using guns" then that means your enemy is cheating. but you're still going to die when he shoots you. that's the bottom line. you may be right, but you'll be dead. and being dead doesn't do you much good.
so basically, if you wanny play mr. morality to these jihads then all yer gonna do is lose soldiers and consistently appologize to the ungrateful world. the war on terrorism will not be won.

now i understand that iraq is not terrorism. we probably shouldn't have even gone in there BUT WE DID so now that we're at where we're at then need to clean up quick & fast & hard while manipulating the general public like we, and everyone else, have done so well in the past.

Originally posted by Nuno
Whether or not you follow those rules will effect how your country is viewed. that's why i believe that the mistake lies in the leak, not the treatment.

the trick to world leadership (or any leadership) is to eliminate your enemies or competitors quick & hard while keeping the commoners happy. you may not like that, it may sound wrong, but take a look at the root of 95% of all causes, nations, business, and other tactics that have been carried out successfully. it's the cold hearted truth BUT IT IS THE TRUTH. get the **** out of fantasyland and start looking around you.

Originally posted by Nuno

Accept the fact that there is no way to justify what those jackasses did.
even i'll admit that my views are opinions. by you saying that your stance is a FACT (not to mention your obvious lack of reading half the **** i write) shows how close minded you are being in addressing what we're talking about. which is a pretty ****ty approach to take when yer trying to have an intelligent debate. not as ****ty as creed's but yer climbin the wall man.

i'm at least having the courtesy of picking apart what you guys are writing, line for line, and addressing it instead of skimming through a giant post that i'm too lazy to read through and giving a half-assed assumption on what you think you may have read.

You name call far to much in your arguments. I don't have time to go line by ****ing line with your absurdly long posts. I'm will have a response in a couple of minutes for you.

Originally posted by Nuno
You name call far to much in your arguments.
oh knock it off.

Originally posted by Nuno

I don't have time to go line by ****ing line with your absurdly long posts. I'm will have a response in a couple of minutes for you.
this isn't chess. there's no timer here. you don't get bonus points for reaction efficiency. hell sometimes i sit on a reply for an hour or so cause i'm at work and got a lotta **** to do myself.

and just because they're long doesn't mean they're absurd. try reading em before "name calling" like that.

Originally posted by Purity
if you show up to a gunfight with a knife then you are going to lose. now if the rules to the fight say "no using guns" then that means your enemy is cheating. but you're still going to die when he shoots you. that's the bottom line. you may be right, but you'll be dead. and being dead doesn't do you much good.
so basically, if you wanny play mr. morality to these jihads then all yer gonna do is lose soldiers and consistently appologize to the ungrateful world. the war on terrorism will not be won.

now i understand that iraq is not terrorism. we probably shouldn't have even gone in there BUT WE DID so now that we're at where we're at then need to clean up quick & fast & hard while manipulating the general public like we, and everyone else, have done so well in the past.

that's why i believe that the mistake lies in the leak, not the treatment.

the trick to world leadership (or any leadership) is to eliminate your enemies or competitors quick & hard while keeping the commoners happy. you may not like that, it may sound wrong, but take a look at the root of 95% of all causes, nations, business, and other tactics that have been carried out successfully. it's the cold hearted truth BUT IT IS THE TRUTH. get the **** out of fantasyland and start looking around you.


even i'll admit that my views are opinions. by you saying that your stance is a FACT (not to mention your obvious lack of reading half the **** i write) shows how close minded you are being in addressing what we're talking about. which is a pretty ****ty approach to take when yer trying to have an intelligent debate. not as ****ty as creed's but yer climbin the wall man.

i'm at least having the courtesy of picking apart what you guys are writing, line for line, and addressing it instead of skimming through a giant post that i'm too lazy to read through and giving a half-assed assumption on what you think you may have read.

1. We're not talking about the fight dickhead. We are talking about the aftermath. The imprisonment and mistreatment of prisoners. Once the dust has settles and one side surrenders, it's over. Those soldiers can do no further harm to us. Abusing of them is sadistic at that point. That is why the Geneva Convention was written.

2. The fault lies in the treatment because we did the invanding. We fought Iraq over 10 years ago because they invaded Kuwait for oil. Don't you think it looks bad enough as it is that we are doing the same ****. We have no reason to be there. These idiots are mistreating soldiers that are defending there country. They are too ****ing stupid to know the ramifications of their idiotic acts. We'll get back to this later...

3. Mistreating someone who cannot defend themself is wrong no matter how you look at it. So that's why I used the word fact. Other than that everything I say is my opinion.





****er.....

Originally posted by Purity
that's why i believe that the mistake lies in the leak, not the treatment.

the trick to world leadership (or any leadership) is to eliminate your enemies or competitors quick & hard while keeping the commoners happy. you may not like that, it may sound wrong, but take a look at the root of 95% of all causes, nations, business, and other tactics that have been carried out successfully. it's the cold hearted truth BUT IT IS THE TRUTH. get the **** out of fantasyland and start looking around you.


Disagree on on your first comment, totally agree with the second one and this is why: there is nothing to gain from that kind of treatment but obviously plenty to lose. Everyone expects us to kill the dissenting Iraqi's that don't surrender and that's an accepted part of war. However, it is not accepted to do what that idiotic handful of troops did. They've set us back for doing that. Essentially your arguement on this is that it's not that we did something wrong it's that we got caught, this is erroneous because we could have avoided this whole mess and apologizing to the world wouldn't be necessary if those troops had done what they were supposed to do. Again, by making them pile into homo pyramids we gain NOTHING but we open ourselves to criticism and garner sympathy for the opposition.
Like I said I totally agree with your second comment, but part of keeping the commoners and the rest of world happy is keeping up appearances, we don't need to be shooting ourselves in the foot for no reason. I read your whole post but only commented on what I thought was relevant to the topic.

you guys are makin some good points but i'm tired and drunk so i don't wanna reply to em right now. i was hopin that i could once i got home from work but now that i'm home....**** it, i'm goin t' bed.