View Full Version : If Henry Armstrong had not been robbed out of the middleweight title did he have


cotto16
04-11-2009, 02:12 PM
Plans to go after the lightheavyweight title? he walked through the middleweight champion, even though then champion garcia was only a small middleweight.

TheGreatA
04-11-2009, 02:20 PM
I've seen the fight and in no way did Armstrong walk through Garcia. Ceferino was just too big at that point compared to the 140 lb Armstrong although Armstrong as always was the aggressor which probably should've won him the fight on the scorecards.

Billy Conn and Gus Lesnevich would've been too big for him, not to mention Tony Zale the other MW title holder at the time.

Kid McCoy
04-11-2009, 02:26 PM
I wouldn't have thought so. Not if he had any sense anyway. Not only was Conn substantially bigger than Armstrong, but he was also capable of beating heavyweight contenders (and, as it turned out, came mightily close to beating the champ). Armstrong was a phenomenon, but Conn would walk through him.

Hawkins
04-11-2009, 02:27 PM
Plans to go after the lightheavyweight title? he walked through the middleweight champion, even though then champion garcia was only a small middleweight.

I've always thought even middleweight was kind of stretching it for Armstrong, and I have no doubt that Light Heavy would have been too much of a size to ask. However, probably wouldn't do very well to count out Homicide Hank in any scrap.

TheGreatA
04-11-2009, 02:29 PM
I wouldn't have thought so. Not if he had any sense anyway. Not only was Conn substantially bigger than Armstrong, but he was also capable of beating heavyweight contenders (and, as it turned out, came mightily close to beating the champ). Armstrong was a phenomenon, but Conn would walk through him.

Tough to imagine how great Conn would've looked if he had actually outweighed his opponents by 30 lbs instead of himself being outweighed by about as much against heavyweights.

Armstrong never weighed more than 140 in his prime and according to himself he ate his way to that weight.

cotto16
04-11-2009, 02:36 PM
I've seen the fight and in no way did Armstrong walk through Garcia. Ceferino was just too big at that point compared to the 140 lb Armstrong although Armstrong as always was the aggressor which probably should've won him the fight on the scorecards.

Billy Conn and Gus Lesnevich would've been too big for him, not to mention Tony Zale the other MW title holder at the time.

I have also watched the fight and armstrong has him on the back foot all night, and should have won, as he wins most rounds.He also doesnt seemed phazed by garcia's strength, power or weight advantage so i would not count him out to much against conn. Armstrong just loves to scrap

TheGreatA
04-11-2009, 02:41 PM
I have also watched the fight and armstrong has him on the back foot all night, and should have won, as he wins most rounds.He also doesnt seemed fazed by garcia's strength, power or weight advantage so i would count him out to much against conn. Armstrong just loves to scrap

Armstrong was unique in that it seemed no matter how big his opponents were, he would always be the aggressor forcing the fight. He was caught by a lot of Garcia's "bolo" punches though.

Against Conn he would have little chance however since it's unlikely that Conn would trade with him all the way like Garcia did and even if he did, Conn's handspeed, combinations and ability to take a punch would give him the edge over the much smaller Armstrong.

cotto16
04-11-2009, 02:45 PM
Armstrong was unique in that it seemed that no matter how big his opponents were, he would always be the aggressor forcing the fight. He was caught by a lot of Garcia's "bolo" punches though.

Against Conn he would have little chance however since it's unlikely that Conn would trade with him all the way like Garcia did and even if he did, Conn's handspeed, combinations and ability to take a punch would give him the edge over the much smaller Armstrong.

Yes i agree conn would have a big edge! but i just wouldnt count hank out. Also i think Armstrongs cast iron chin and workrate would of got him the win against zale. I wonder who would of been on the back foot if hank and la motta had met at middleweight

Kid McCoy
04-11-2009, 02:47 PM
Armstrong was unique in that it seemed that no matter how big his opponents were, he would always be the aggressor forcing the fight. He was caught by a lot of Garcia's "bolo" punches though.

Against Conn he would have little chance however since it's unlikely that Conn would trade with him all the way like Garcia did and even if he did, Conn's handspeed, combinations and ability to take a punch would give him the edge over the much smaller Armstrong.

Not to mention Conn's underrated punching power. He KO'd heavyweight contender Bob Pastor, who was one tough customer. The only other fighter to stop Pastor was Joe Louis. Thinking of Armstrong vs Conn, I can't see anything but a mis-match.

Hawkins
04-11-2009, 02:49 PM
Yes i agree conn would have a big edge! but i just wouldnt count hank out. Also i think Armstrongs cast iron chin and workrate would of got him the win against zale. I wonder who would of been on the back foot if hank and la motta had met at middleweight

Don't you think 40-50lb weight mismatch would wear on Armstrong more so than other fights? I love Armstrong but I think he would get beaten pretty soundly by someone like Conn...especially considering the huge weight difference.

cotto16
04-11-2009, 02:55 PM
Don't you think 40-50lb weight mismatch would wear on Armstrong more so than other fights? I love Armstrong but I think he would get beaten pretty soundly by someone like Conn...especially considering the huge weight difference.

Conn was never no more than 168 pound, he wasn't a big LHW.

Hawkins
04-11-2009, 02:58 PM
yes, he was...he regularly weighed upwards of 170-180.

cotto16
04-11-2009, 03:37 PM
yes, he was...he regularly weighed upwards of 170-180.

as a lightheavyweight he was never no more than 168, he was only 170 against louis alot of people say

Kid McCoy
04-11-2009, 04:22 PM
as a lightheavyweight he was never no more than 168, he was only 170 against louis alot of people say

Even if Conn was 168, Hank would still be giving up some two stone in weight against a guy who was undefeated as light-heavy champ and beat every heavyweight he faced, bar Louis. I just don't see what Armstrong would have to bother Conn.

phallus
04-11-2009, 04:52 PM
Even if Conn was 168, Hank would still be giving up some two stone in weight against a guy who was undefeated as light-heavy champ and beat every heavyweight he faced, bar Louis. I just don't see what Armstrong would have to bother Conn.

i agree with this, even 168 against hank's 140 would be a mismatch. armstrong should have won the middleweight title but that's as far as i see him going, even as great a fighter as he was