View Full Version : Miguel Torres is not a p4p fighter.


F l i c k e r
04-03-2009, 09:03 PM
Miguel Torres isn't a pound for pound anything. He isn't even worth mentioning. The reason that I have come to this conclusion is look at him..

5'10" and fighting Bantamweight? That is weak. First of all, the bantamweight division is a sad excuse of not wanting to fight your natural weight. Second of all there is no names in the Bantamweight divsion. Then you take into account his heightSeriously. Look at the 5'10" guys in MMA and at the least they are Lightweight. Hell, GSP is 5'10" and we all know what weight class he is in. So thats saying he can hold GSP type weight on his body. Thats saying Miguel Torres dehydrates all the way to 135 and then come fight night he is about Lightweight. Fighting guys who are 5'6" and on average will bulk up to maybe featherweight come fight night.

Then lets look at another combat sport; boxing. On average people who are 5'10" are in what weight class? At the least 140(JWW) which is Featherweight in MMA. So Miguel Torres is a 5'10" guy, he is in no way shape or form a natural bantam or feather. At the least I will give him lightweight and at the most I will give him boarderline Welter-Middle.

How can you call that pound 4 pound? I call that weak. The man fights people smaller than Urijah Faber and Jens Pulver. Then I hear all over the place that Miguel Torres is one of the pound for pound best? Then those same people who say that call KID and Gomi overrated? KID is a natural Featherweight and fought above his natural weight class. Gomi fought in Pride at 164 pounds when the limit was 170. Walked through some of the best fighters and even took apart the entire Chute Boxe academy competitors. And those guys are overrated?

Torres doesn't even have the guts to fight Feathers. So he drops about 2-3 weight classes to fight guys incredibly small, smaller than Faber, Pulver, and Mike Brown. Its sad, seriously and I hear he is one of the pound 4 pound best. No way. Pound 4 pound means your a small guy with the talent to beat bigger guys if you were naturally a larger weight. Miguel Torres is a bigger guy fighting smaller guys. That is not what pound 4 pound is. I cant even call Miguel Torres a good fighter because he fights guys way smaller than himself in a nobody filled division. Trash is what that is.

GSP fighting Urijah Faber does not make GSP a great fighter. So why is Torres considered great when he is of GSP size and fights people smaller than Faber.



Enlightenment session over...

Eric Holder
04-03-2009, 11:26 PM
skills wise I think Torres is definetly an elite p4p fighter

he is really big for his divison though I agree there, but so is Anderson Silva anyways I think I read somewhere on here that he's moving up in weight pretty soon

StillUnknown
04-04-2009, 12:20 AM
wow i guarantee you won't find any fighters who make that claim

Soda Popinski
04-04-2009, 01:24 AM
HA!! What a joke.

Torres is a natural 135'er. He could probably make 125 if he wanted to. You can tell by looking at him that he's just naturally scrawny and doesn't cut weight at all. I honestly question whether or not you've even seen him fight, because there's no way even at 5'10 that he's bigger than any one of his opponents. He's taller and longer, but he's got no mass whatsoever.

At the least I will give him lightweight and at the most I will give him boarderline Welter-Middle.

You do know MMA weight classes, right?? You're essentially saying that Miguel Torres weighs between 155 and 185lbs naturally. So you're saying he cuts around 30-40lbs to make weight?? That'd be what... 20% of his body weight?? WTF are you on bro??

I have to conclude that either this is a retarded BS flamebait thread, or that you have no idea who Miguel Torres even is, let alone what his natural weight is.

jakkups
04-04-2009, 08:45 AM
Miguel Torres isn't a pound for pound anything. He isn't even worth mentioning. The reason that I have come to this conclusion is look at him..

5'10" and fighting Bantamweight? That is weak. First of all, the bantamweight division is a sad excuse of not wanting to fight your natural weight. Second of all there is no names in the Bantamweight divsion. Then you take into account his heightSeriously. Look at the 5'10" guys in MMA and at the least they are Lightweight. Hell, GSP is 5'10" and we all know what weight class he is in. So thats saying he can hold GSP type weight on his body. Thats saying Miguel Torres dehydrates all the way to 135 and then come fight night he is about Lightweight. Fighting guys who are 5'6" and on average will bulk up to maybe featherweight come fight night.

Then lets look at another combat sport; boxing. On average people who are 5'10" are in what weight class? At the least 140(JWW) which is Featherweight in MMA. So Miguel Torres is a 5'10" guy, he is in no way shape or form a natural bantam or feather. At the least I will give him lightweight and at the most I will give him boarderline Welter-Middle.

How can you call that pound 4 pound? I call that weak. The man fights people smaller than Urijah Faber and Jens Pulver. Then I hear all over the place that Miguel Torres is one of the pound for pound best? Then those same people who say that call KID and Gomi overrated? KID is a natural Featherweight and fought above his natural weight class. Gomi fought in Pride at 164 pounds when the limit was 170. Walked through some of the best fighters and even took apart the entire Chute Boxe academy competitors. And those guys are overrated?

Torres doesn't even have the guts to fight Feathers. So he drops about 2-3 weight classes to fight guys incredibly small, smaller than Faber, Pulver, and Mike Brown. Its sad, seriously and I hear he is one of the pound 4 pound best. No way. Pound 4 pound means your a small guy with the talent to beat bigger guys if you were naturally a larger weight. Miguel Torres is a bigger guy fighting smaller guys. That is not what pound 4 pound is. I cant even call Miguel Torres a good fighter because he fights guys way smaller than himself in a nobody filled division. Trash is what that is.

GSP fighting Urijah Faber does not make GSP a great fighter. So why is Torres considered great when he is of GSP size and fights people smaller than Faber.



Enlightenment session over...

What a load of rubbish. This thread is no different to when you said that Aoki ha the best BJJ in MMA without having any idea of how to construct an argument based on solid facts. You were just favouring him because he was Japanese.

You're saying that because Torres is a certain height means that he should be fighting at a higher weight class. You compare GSP and Torres because they're the same height and yet you don't look at the fact that GSP walks around at 187 and Torres walks around at 150. You do know that weight classes have no connection with height right? That's why they're called weight classes. . .it's to do with weight and more importantly mass. Big difference, so the comparison you present not only between GSP and Torres but to the sport of boxing is completely flawed.

Who was calling KID overrated on here exactly? I haen't seen anyone on here say that. And KID isn't a natural featherweight, he's more of a big flyweight or a natural bantamweight. Gomi, yes overrated. Had a good run in 2005 but never fought anyone that was a danger to him after that including the chute boxe guys. They were overhyped and overblown talents who got by on the fact that they were associated with Wanderlei & Shogun. I mean Jean Silva being a top guy. No mate, not even an average opponent. Not to mention that he fought guys like Pulver who is a FW so by your logic that would make him no different from Torres in that he is a so-called "bigger" guy fighting small guys. But again this is where logic is flawed. Because when you use the weight classes properly like they do in the USA then you aren't a bigger guy on the scales because you have to make the same weight. Unlike Japan where you can fight at whatever weigh you want to unless it was a GP or a title fight. So essentially the majority of Gomi's opponents were blown up 145 or 155lb fighters who weren't even close to 164 whereas Gomi was a natural 170lb fighter who only had to cut weight when he had a title match which wasn't very often.

And are you serious when you say that Torres doesn't have the guts to fight 145lb'ers? You obviously know nothing about the guy. When he started fighting he was 120lbs and fought most of his career at this weight against guys who were 180lbs+. And you say he hasn't the guts to fight Faber or Brown. You are delusional and are just hating on the guy, nothing more. You also don't know that he is intending to fight at 145 and 155 by 2010 so your argument is once again a dud.

And yes he is one of the best P4P fighters in the world. You claim to know what the term means yet you refuse to apply it to Torres because you don't like him. It's not about being a smaller guy and being able to beat a bigger if you were the same size. That's just a retarded way of looking at it. You make it out to be based on size when it's not. Fact is it's about skills not weight. I mean most people would consider Fedor as the P4P king when it comes to MMA. He's a HW so how does your logic apply to him. Guess what? It doesn't, because again it's about skills not size. And it's a fact that if you took the skills of Torres and put them into a fighter from any other weight class he would beat the majority if not all of the fighters in that said weight class with a few exceptions. You say that Torres is a "bigger" guy fighting small guys but thats BS simply because all the guys he has fought prior to the WEC were bigger than him and in the WEC they're the same size, YES, the same size. They fight at 135lbs just like him. How does that make him bigger? I'll tell you how. . . it doesn't.




Reality check over. . . .

Savino
04-04-2009, 09:33 AM
totally agree with jakkups. Torres is defo a top 5 P4P fighter imo.

JabSandwich
04-04-2009, 11:58 AM
r u deliberately slow?

DeltaSigChi4
04-04-2009, 01:27 PM
I'm not going to be duped into reading through that ridiculously tl;dr original post to conclude that the OP is suffering from a neurological disease and is a mentally retarded human being.

E

Move BRICKS™
04-04-2009, 02:52 PM
So Fedor needs to move down in weight because he's short for a Heavyweight?

No, no. Wait. Since Fedor is #1 P4P, all of the bigger Heavyweights need to stop being un-P4P'ish and move up to Super Heavyweight.

Right?

Get a clue bro.

F l i c k e r
04-04-2009, 10:42 PM
To the guy that said I favor Japanese fighters is stupid. I said Shinya is the best because that is what he is. BJ Penn's most exciting fights are won by TKO/KO so that doesn't make him the best at BJJ. I can consider Big Nog or Mir but Shinya does waaaaaaay too much things on the ground to not be considered the best. MMA -wise. If he did Abu dhabi then I think he would lose. As a matter of fact he has and he did lose.

As far as Torres. No, you guys dont understand what p4p is then. I cant say he is a good fighter because of the people he fights. The guy is huge and fights in the Bantamweight. Not like he is fighting Feathers, he is fighting Bantamweight. To say Torres is a natural 135 is ****ing stupid. That guy who said that doesn't know **** about combat sports beside the obvious punching and kicking. People cut weight to fight, there are only few who are on top and dont cut weight to fight. Torres is 5'10" and fights Bantam. That means he cuts at the least 2 weight classes to fight Bantamweights. Even the featherweights are smaller than his ass.

The guy who mentioned A. Silva. Thats true to but the people he fights are also big for 185. If I was to put A. Silva in Torres' situation then A. Silva would be a Welterweight. Natural 205 fighting 170s that is sad. But luckily Silva doesn't do that.

Fedor moving down isn't something bad. However its ****ing stupid to even mention Fedor in this talk. He is a ****ing heavyweight. Your stupid for even talking about him in this topic. Shows how mainstream you are.

Quite bluntly. A larger guy moving WAY down in weight doesn't make a top p4p fighter. Period.

Soda Popinski
04-05-2009, 03:24 AM
People cut weight to fight, there are only few who are on top and dont cut weight to fight. Torres is 5'10" and fights Bantam. That means he cuts at the least 2 weight classes to fight Bantamweights.

Jesus H Christ, I am truly amazed. I don't even know how to reply to that because it's so ****ing ridiculous. Let me bash my head against the toilet 470 times, maybe I can make myself stupid enough to answer you. The fact that you think there's a height requirement for weight classes makes you one of the most retarded people on this forum, and that's saying a lot. Being a certain height means you have to weigh a certain amount?? Genetics no longer play a part in human anatomy apparently, thanks for breaking that news to the rest of us and make sure you call the Mayo Clinic, they'd definitely love to hear from you.

Sean Sherk is 5'6 and fights at 155. Should he not be allowed to do that because he's too short?? How about when he fought at WW, he should've been thrown in jail, right idiot?? Is Semmy Schilt too tall for HW?? Corey Hill is 6'4 and fights as a LW because he's a scrawny **** and guess what... he's not very good. What about Jeff Monson, a 5'9 HW... too short?? He's shorter than Torres, maybe he should move down to LW where, according to you, Torres belongs. All he'd have to do is cut his arms off and he'd make 155 in no time.

I still don't believe this is a real thread, I think you're probably sitting there laughing at all the commotion you caused with your mindless BS. Tell me I'm right, because if I'm wrong, then it's actually much much worse.

jakkups
04-05-2009, 07:29 AM
To the guy that said I favor Japanese fighters is stupid. I said Shinya is the best because that is what he is. BJ Penn's most exciting fights are won by TKO/KO so that doesn't make him the best at BJJ. I can consider Big Nog or Mir but Shinya does waaaaaaay too much things on the ground to not be considered the best. MMA -wise. If he did Abu dhabi then I think he would lose. As a matter of fact he has and he did lose.


You do favor Japanese and japnese based fighters. Hell in the same thread you said that if Genki Sudo was still around he would be the best BJJ guy. That right there is idiotic to say the least. Shinya is not the best at BJJ in MMA. He is one of the few that applys it well in MMA, but he is not the best. And you thinking that BJ's most exciting fights are via TKO/KO has any bearing on how good his BJJ is when it cmes to MMA is idiotic to say the least. BJJ is not just about submissions when it comes to MMA because there is so much more to consider when on the ground as well as other way and means to finish the fight while using your BJJ. Aoki only goes for subs. He can't finish a fight unless he can sub the guy. Thats the reason he does so many things on the ground because he doesn't know anything else. Whenever he gets in there with a guy who has decent sub defense he is lost and resorts to holding onto his opponent in the hopes of pulling a Matt Lindland lay 'n' pray victory. Or his glass jaw gets exposed and he goes sleepy time. BJ on the other hand along with guys like Nog use their positions to maximum effect. They don't lay there like most BJJ guys in the hopes that someone makes a mistake and gives them a lifeline. They pound the **** outta the guy and make the opportunity happen for themselves. That is a far better use of BJJ then just crawling around like a crab in the hopes that the guy will play into his game. Plus you criticise Torres with your retarded logic yet seem to have no problem with Aoki who at 5'11" fought at 155lbs for the majority of his career against "smaller" guys. Now he's bigger than GSP (again by your logic) so this would mean that his BJJ skills aren't as good as you say they are because he is using them against "smaller" guys. But I'm sure you'll find some stupid excuse to try justify that. C'mon lets here it, I wanna see how you try justify it without contradicting yourself.


The guy who mentioned A. Silva. Thats true to but the people he fights are also big for 185. If I was to put A. Silva in Torres' situation then A. Silva would be a Welterweight. Natural 205 fighting 170s that is sad. But luckily Silva doesn't do that.

Actually Silva started out at 170 and used to cut from over 200lbs. Should he be chastised because he does that or is it OK? Now Thiago Alves who is 5'10" and walks around at over 205 cuts down to 170. He's smaller in height but is similar in weight. Should he be chastised for cutting down nearly 2 weight classes? You don't take into account that age also plays a factor on what weight class a fighter fights at. Fact is that at almost 34 years old it would be unrealistic to think that cutting to 170 would be a possibility.


As far as Torres. No, you guys dont understand what p4p is then. I cant say he is a good fighter because of the people he fights. The guy is huge and fights in the Bantamweight. Not like he is fighting Feathers, he is fighting Bantamweight. To say Torres is a natural 135 is ****ing stupid. That guy who said that doesn't know **** about combat sports beside the obvious punching and kicking. People cut weight to fight, there are only few who are on top and dont cut weight to fight. Torres is 5'10" and fights Bantam. That means he cuts at the least 2 weight classes to fight Bantamweights. Even the featherweights are smaller than his ass.

Fedor moving down isn't something bad. However its ****ing stupid to even mention Fedor in this talk. He is a ****ing heavyweight. Your stupid for even talking about him in this topic. Shows how mainstream you are.

Quite bluntly. A larger guy moving WAY down in weight doesn't make a top p4p fighter. Period.


No, it shows who dense, idiotic and close minded you are when it comes to this discussion. You let your own feelings about Torres get in the way of any logical explanation. Fact is size has nothing to do with P4P qualities. It's about skills, more importantly a well-rounded game which equates to being an all around great fighter. Torres has all the qualities of a top P4P fighter. Great striking, great grappling both wrestling and BJJ. And one of the best mindsets when it comes to bringing together all those qualities into one complete package. Look at what Soda said. Guys like Corey Hill who by your logic should be fighting at HW aren't even good at 155. And then you have guys like Monson who is smaller in height than most if not all guys in the 3 weight classes below him yet he fights at HW and is still one of the better fighters in the weight class. It's clear to see that you have no clue as to what constitutes P4P status and are just hating on Torres for no logical reason.

DeltaSigChi4
04-05-2009, 04:45 PM
He's right about one thing:


Quite bluntly. A larger guy moving WAY down in weight doesn't make a top p4p fighter. Period.

And that's not saying much, considering the mentally retarded imbecile must've typed thousands of words to just get one thing right with twenty or so. Moving in or out or all around [and you do the hooky-pokey] weight classes doesn't make a top pound for pound fighter; POSSESSING SUPERIOR SKILLS compared against any other fighter from any other weight class makes a top pound for pound fighter. And that is why Miguelito Torres to top pound for pound.

And if no one has said it yet, I'll go ahead and do so: your opinion is absolutely irrelevant. You're absolutely irrelevant.

Carry on.

E

Soda Popinski
04-05-2009, 07:21 PM
Look at what Soda said. Guys like Corey Hill who by your logic should be fighting at HW aren't even good at 155. And then you have guys like Monson who is smaller in height than most if not all guys in the 3 weight classes below him yet he fights at HW and is still one of the better fighters in the weight class.

Actually no, don't listen to what I say. The only things I know about combat sports are the punching and kicking. :?!:

$ LegenD $
04-05-2009, 08:42 PM
one of the worst threads ive seen since ive been here at boxingscene but IMO torres is def a p4p fighter

$ LegenD $
04-06-2009, 12:45 AM
if the thread starter saw tonights fight NOW WHAT!!....if thats not p4p material then i dont know what is

Move BRICKS™
04-06-2009, 01:00 AM
http://i40.tinypic.com/mht45v.jpg

StillUnknown
04-06-2009, 01:01 AM
^^^^^lmao!!!

Move BRICKS™
04-06-2009, 01:03 AM
^^^^^lmao!!!

I know right? Best Jiu Jitsu in the game.

ANKLE LOCK-ANKLE LOCK KTFO
http://i40.tinypic.com/mht45v.jpg

DeltaSigChi4
04-06-2009, 04:07 AM
What jibberish are you going on about?

What ankle lock? Do you know what an ankle lock is?

Aoki was working a pass, got swept, and during the transition to deep halfguard, was over*powered by a MUCH BIGGER Mach. He got caught. Happens all the time. Aoki is still #1 Lightweight in the World. Aoki still has some of the best jiu jitsu for Mixed Martial Arts. Don't be a ****ing troll.

E

F l i c k e r
04-06-2009, 04:25 AM
Thank you Delta. That idiot doesn't know MMA. If he did he would have realized that Shinya is a lightweight and that fight was at Welterweight and Mach is a damn good welterweight too.



Just plain out. Alot of people here are stupid. I cant say Torres is a great fighter because of the weight he fights at. I do know however his natural weight is definately not Bantam. People are also not realizing the fact that the Bantam weight has no competition at all.

When I see guys like Jens fighting up to 170(in his prime). KID(natural feather) fighting guys at Welter. Tokoro fighting Royce Gracie. Shinya having the balls to move up from light to welter. Hell even BJ moving all the way to 205 and fighting Machida. Just magnificent performances from smaller guys at higher weights. Then I see 5'10" Miguel Torres weighing in 135 then come fight night he is at least a lightweight. There is a problem there.

Origin of Pound for Pound.
It is often said to have been created to describe world Welterweight and Middleweight champion Sugar Ray Robinson.[1] Robinson is one of the most accomplished fighters of all time, but his supporters realized that, while he could beat anyone in his own class, as a Middleweight he would not be able to beat a top Heavyweight. Hence, Robinson was called the pound-for-pound best without being expected to beat much larger fighters, under the belief that he as a Middleweight was still a better quality fighter than any fighter fighting at heavier or lighter weights than him.

That is not what Miguel Torres is doing. If he faught at his natural weight. He would more than likely get his ass beat. Fighting at the nobody weight class when he is more than likely boarderline Light-Welter at natural weight.

jakkups
04-06-2009, 08:00 AM
Thank you Delta. That idiot doesn't know MMA. If he did he would have realized that Shinya is a lightweight and that fight was at Welterweight and Mach is a damn good welterweight too.

You've made issue of Torres's height being an issue at his weight class yet you have no problem with the fact that Aoki is an inch taller than not only Torres but the current No.1 WW in the world GSP and is fighting at a lower weight class. And now you make it an issue of weight. Please make up your mind, stop contradicting yourself.

And Mach a good WW. Nope, an average one at best. His best years are behind him and the fact that he was able to completely destroy Aoki within 30 seconds proves what I have said about Aoki all along. Good grappler, **** chin and a crap fighter. If that was against any of the young and in their prime WWs he would probably get killed. No scratch that he would get killed. And probably cry like a little schoolgirl.

http://cdn.cagepotato.com/www/sites/default/files/AokiIma4.jpg


Just plain out. Alot of people here are stupid. I cant say Torres is a great fighter because of the weight he fights at. I do know however his natural weight is definately not Bantam. People are also not realizing the fact that the Bantam weight has no competition at all.

His weight before he cuts is never more than about 148 more often it is less. For whatever reason you refuse to believe that Torres is fighting at his natural weight class. Do you even know what a natural weight class means. It is the weight class that a fighter can make without severely damaging themselves to get there. Essentially Torres can make 125 which proves that he has and is a naturally small guy that carry's very little weight for his height. And trying to say that Bantamweight has no competition at all is just you trying to clutch at straws. There is and has been plenty of competition at 135 for years. It's a simple case of exposure. Fact is that the most well known organisations over the years have never focused on anything lower than 155. That doesn't mean that the weight classes below this haven't got some true bonfide beasts in them. They just haven't got many stars because they haven't had the platform that was given to the higher weight classes. Try again.


When I see guys like Jens fighting up to 170(in his prime). KID(natural feather) fighting guys at Welter. Tokoro fighting Royce Gracie. Shinya having the balls to move up from light to welter. Hell even BJ moving all the way to 205 and fighting Machida. Just magnificent performances from smaller guys at higher weights. Then I see 5'10" Miguel Torres weighing in 135 then come fight night he is at least a lightweight. There is a problem there.

That is not what Miguel Torres is doing. If he faught at his natural weight. He would more than likely get his ass beat. Fighting at the nobody weight class when he is more than likely boarderline Light-Welter at natural weight.

I 've already spoken about Torres's weight come fight night and it is not 155, it's less. A guy who walks around at less than 150 wouldn't come in over that on the night of a fight. That is absurd thinking to say the least.

And you do know that Torres spent the first half of his career fighting guys 180lbs+ do't you? And you do know that he was still a kid and never weighed more than 120 naturally right? Yet you talk about Jens Pulver and BJ Penn's forays into the higher weight classes and then you say that Miguel hasn't got the guts to fight at a higher weight when he had done for awhile. You obviously don't know what you're talking about and have a selective way of thinking.

You obviously misunderstand that wikipedia ripped definition of what Pound For Pound means. Again you're trying to make it out to be a height issue. And think that by Torres cutting weight (which is what 95% of fighters do anyway) and fighting at a weight class that you consider him to be too big it means that he doesn't have credentials to be considered a top P4P fighter. You do realise that Sugar Ray Robinson used to cut from 170 to make 147 and 160 right? Does that mean that Sugar Ray wasn't a true P4P great? I mean by your retarded way of thinking it would mean that Sugar Ray wasn't really a P4P great. But once again you fail to realise what I told you before. It's not about the weight. It's about the skills. Like Robinson, Torres would never be expected to go up and beat a heavyweight because he is a natural 135lb fighter. But if you took the skills he had and put them into the body of a natural heavyweight then he would. That's what P4P means. Not travelling up the weight classes and fighting guys bigger than you. That proves nothing because the playing field isn't level to start with which immediately voids any P4P implications that said matchp may have. If anything it just makes it freakshow matchup.

ABOSWORTH
04-06-2009, 11:31 AM
:jerk::jerk:

I couldn't disagree any more than I do.

DeltaSigChi4
04-06-2009, 01:05 PM
So, Aoki gets caught by a BIGGER fighter, and all of a sudden everything that he has ever done before = ****? I'd like to know what you had to say about GSP after he was knocked dead by Matt Serra. Or actually, I don't. It seems like your knowledge of the sport seems to be nonexistent; that you have such a deep and undying hatred for certain fighters [Aoki], you cannot formulate an OBJECTIVE opinion of fights. You simply cannot. You are clearly on the side of fighter bashing; of disrespecting professional fighters that have so much for a sport that so many of us love. You're a worthless troll.

E

ABOSWORTH
04-06-2009, 01:19 PM
So, Aoki gets caught by a BIGGER fighter, and all of a sudden everything that he has ever done before = ****? I'd like to know what you had to say about GSP after he was knocked dead by Matt Serra. Or actually, I don't. It seems like your knowledge of the sport seems to be nonexistent; that you have such a deep and undying hatred for certain fighters [Aoki], you cannot formulate an OBJECTIVE opinion of fights. You simply cannot. You are clearly on the side of fighter bashing; of disrespecting professional fighters that have so much for a sport that so many of us love. You're a worthless troll.

E

Who are you talking to?

sunthunder
04-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Sakurai may be past his best, and an undersized welterweight now (who really should have spent his whole career at 155), but I'd like to highlight that at one point, he was considered the top welterweight in the sport, and the top p4p fighter. It was his win over Sakurai that in many peoples eyes cemented Hughes as the king of the division. In his own right, Mach is an awesome grappler (ADCC absolute class runner up), and even as a natural lightweight has always had good power that carried over to his welterweight fights.

Cuauhtémoc1520
04-06-2009, 02:19 PM
Miguel Torres is a bad, bad man. He is always in incredible shape, he's good at both stand up and ground game.......

What more do you want?

SAN D13GO VILLAN
04-06-2009, 03:23 PM
Put down that Hatorade!!!

F l i c k e r
04-06-2009, 04:18 PM
Miguel Torres is a bad, bad man. He is always in incredible shape, he's good at both stand up and ground game.......

What more do you want?

I just want to see him fight some real competition. Instead of vastly out-weighing his competition come fight night. At least Featherweight, then I can give him some real props. I respect the dude because I know it has to really hard to cut to 135. I just rather see him fight people who are more on his level.

Put down that Hatorade!!!

No hatorade here. Just speaking the truth on how I feel. If he fought people that could handle him. Hence, people that come in at fight night even with Torres' weight. Then I can give him so real props.


Also, in defense of Shinya. He has beaten Hayato at 155. So, Shinya in his comfort zone can beat Sakurai. Where as Sakurai at his comfort zone can beat Aoki. 1-1 series tie.

ABOSWORTH
04-06-2009, 04:30 PM
I just want to see him fight some real competition. Instead of vastly out-weighing his competition come fight night. At least Featherweight, then I can give him some real props. I respect the dude because I know it has to really hard to cut to 135. I just rather see him fight people who are more on his level.


Where are you getting this information from? All sources I've read say that he walks around only 10 pounds over his natural fighting weight of 135. Just because he's tall for the division does not automatically mean that he has to cut weight. I also have read that he doesn't cut weight by starving or rubber suit. He just spars to drop the extra 10 lbs.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6388&zoneid=3

jakkups
04-06-2009, 04:37 PM
Aoki lost to Sakurai both times they fought and both times it was at 167 not 155. The first fight was a close one and in all honesty I didn't think either man did enough to win. Both guys were passive in their attacks. Hayato did more on the feet the few moments it was there. He tried to chop away inside Aoki's guard but to no avail. And Aoki tried for one submission right at the beginning and pretty much did the same as Sakurai on the ground when he got on top. Personally, I saw it as a draw.

F l i c k e r
04-06-2009, 04:50 PM
Then why doesnt he just fight lightweights? He would be extremely comfortable because its his natural weight. He is also pretty big in size. Not just in height but overall size he is pretty big. He has the technical ability to beat top lightweights. The dude has sharp punches, mix that with his reach and power. He has all the attributes to destroy the lightweight division in any organization. So, I dont understand the choice of fighting bantamweights. I just dont get it. Which is why I dont agree with the choice of him being a p4p fighter. If he was fighting Lightweights, or at the very least Featherweights. I wouldn't have even made this thread.


Shinya loss the first fight? I could have sworn he won. I watched it and could have sworn he won with the submission late in the match. I gotta watch it again. Maybe I missed something.

ABOSWORTH
04-06-2009, 04:54 PM
Where are you getting this information from? All sources I've read say that he walks around only 10 pounds over his natural fighting weight of 135. Just because he's tall for the division does not automatically mean that he has to cut weight. I also have read that he doesn't cut weight by starving or rubber suit. He just spars to drop the extra 10 lbs.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6388&zoneid=3

Again, why do you keep saying that his natural weight is 155? You have no grounds for this claim. Doesn't matter anyway. The divisions have no stipulations about height. He makes 135 without problems, you're the only one who seems to have a problem with it.

jakkups
04-06-2009, 04:58 PM
Shinya loss the first fight? I could have sworn he won. I watched it and could have sworn he won with the submission late in the match. I gotta watch it again. Maybe I missed something.

<div><object width="420" height="339"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x3nj97" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x3nj97" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="339" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x3nj97">Shinya Aoki vs. Hayato Sakurai</a></b><br /><i> <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Kiomememem"></a></i></div>

F l i c k e r
04-06-2009, 05:15 PM
Again, why do you keep saying that his natural weight is 155? You have no grounds for this claim. Doesn't matter anyway. The divisions have no stipulations about height. He makes 135 without problems, you're the only one who seems to have a problem with it.

my bad. I misread. I thought you meant 20 pounds. Misread. I guess thats what happens when you are constantly thinking about one thing. lol


I find it hard to believe that he walks 145. Extremely hard to find that truthful. Also, its not that I have problems with him making weight. I have a problem with him being so big and killing dudes that are soooooooo small. Thats the problem I have with it. Torres is bigger than me and im a lightweight at 5'9" - 5'10".

$ LegenD $
04-06-2009, 05:28 PM
vastly outweights his opponents?? come on bro gather the info then bust on torres but in reality u wont find anything to back u up.....and better opposition?? it doesn't get any better than last nights war bro.....

ABOSWORTH
04-06-2009, 05:28 PM
my bad. I misread. I thought you meant 20 pounds. Misread. I guess thats what happens when you are constantly thinking about one thing. lol


I find it hard to believe that he walks 145. Extremely hard to find that truthful. Also, its not that I have problems with him making weight. I have a problem with him being so big and killing dudes that are soooooooo small. Thats the problem I have with it. Torres is bigger than me and im a lightweight at 5'9" - 5'10".

He doesn't look that big though. Yeah, he's tall but he is skinny as hell! The guys he fights normally look bigger even though they are shorter. I read an article on him in Fight! magazine and they said the same thing there, that he does not have to cut much weight at all.

Regardless, you may have your wish soon enough as he has been talking about moving up to 155 so he can fight in UFC for more money.

$ LegenD $
04-06-2009, 05:32 PM
torres-faber is gonna be huge!!!

John Frusciante
04-06-2009, 07:02 PM
:ugh: I can't believe this thread exists. I guess it was only a matter of time before people started hating on the guy.