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Considering what a vicious killer he was inside the ring, Marciano was sure polite and humble on the outside.

But Rooster, your fine efforts are wasted. The Rocky admirers on thisforum are few and far between.

Considering what a vicious killer he was inside the ring, Marciano was sure polite and humble on the outside.

But Rooster, your fine efforts are wasted. The Rocky admirers on thisforum are few and far between.

If people like you kept his "greatness" at a realistic level, I'd have no problem accepting him as a good fighter.

I'ts only recently when a few posters, mainly knighte and you started talking him up like he'd stop any heavyweight in the history of the sport.

Saying that, his power was tested at 1000 psi (or was it lbs of force) that's nothing amazing for a good heavyweight, It's not terrible, but nothing close to the hardest ever. Even then we don't know how accurate that is. I've heard Frank Bruno hit harder than that and he wasn't even considered a huge puncher.

EDIT: 630 kg for frank bruno bare fist..(1388 lbs of force)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3936571

do the math i guess, I don't know how credible that site is, but we don't know how credible the Rocky source is ether.

If people like you kept his "greatness" at a realistic level, I'd have no problem accepting him as a good fighter.

I'ts only recently when a few posters, mainly knighte and you started talking him up like he'd stop any heavyweight in the history of the sport.

Saying that, his power was tested at 1000 psi (or was it lbs of force) that's nothing amazing for a good heavyweight, It's not terrible, but nothing close to the hardest ever. Even then we don't know how accurate that is. I've heard Frank Bruno hit harder than that and he wasn't even considered a huge puncher.

EDIT: 630 kg for frank bruno bare fist..(1388 lbs of force)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3936571

do the math i guess, I don't know how credible that site is, but we don't know how credible the Rocky source is ether.

I understand what you mean by keeping him realistic. He does has a chance of stopping every heavyweight though.

We can only go by his career numbers. Just by that you have to automatically give him the edge on any fighter. He is undefeated. Then you take into consideration that he has the highest KO% in the history of the sport. Then with that, you get a KO victory. Then you watch over all his fights and see he gets knocked down a tone of times. So his heart isn't in question. So with that said, you get..... Marciano by KO.

However to say he would never lose is 'unrealistic' because he might show up on an off day and get a loss. Maybe the ref stops it from a cut. Maybe he slips on some sweat and the call it a down. Whacky things happen all the time in sports. So there is always a chance of losing. But from his record and stats, he more than likely wouldn't lose.

In other words: The chances of him losing are slim.

I understand what you mean by keeping him realistic. He does has a chance of stopping every heavyweight.

We can only go by his career numbers. Just by that you have to automatically give him the edge on any fighter. He is undefeated. Then you take into consideration that he has the highest KO% in the history of the sport. Then with that, you get a KO victory. Then you watch over all his fights and see he gets knocked down a tone of times. So his heart isn't in question. So with that said, you get..... Marciano by KO.

However to say he would never lose is 'unrealistic' because he might show up on an off day and get a loss. Maybe the ref stops it from a cut. Maybe he slips on some sweat and the call it a down. Whacky things happen all the time in sports. So there is always a chance of losing. But from his record and stats, he more than likely wouldn't lose.

In other words: The chances of him losing are slim.


yea but look who he fought, that logic doesn't really work.

The Rock had an incredible story and is truly a landmark fighter and an american sports icon! cheers

yea but look who he fought, that logic doesn't really work.

If you look at it from the perspective of living back then. Those guys he fought were considered dangerous match ups and great fighters.


Do you think 50+ years from now people will remember Cotto, Clottey, Pavlik etc? Nope. Only a few fighters are remembered forever. If Marciano wouldn't have retired just to fight people of Ali's era. He would have been 41 by the time Ali had gotten his first title shot(assuming he held the title till then). So if you had expected him to fight Liston, Foreman, Frazier etc.(whom all wouldn't have earned a title shot yet) He would be B-Hopkins old or dead.

If you meant you wanted to see him fight Floyd Patterson? If Archie Moore knocked him out, Marciano would have knocked him out too.

I understand what you mean by keeping him realistic. He does has a chance of stopping every heavyweight though.No.

you dont understand at all what he means by keeping him realistic.

If you meant you wanted to see him fight Floyd Patterson? If Archie Moore knocked him out, Marciano would have knocked him out too.Ironic you say that, because Patterson knocked out Moore to become the then youngest heavyweight champion.

*SIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHHHHH*

No.

you dont understand at all what he means by keeping him realistic.

How do i not? He means, step into every era regardless of skill and beat them. KO, one hit and bam the night is over. That is unrealistic. Saying a man with no footwork, very little athletic ability would come into the ring and would dominate anyone and everyone including other great fighters.

Keeping him realistic is, he has a chance to win. He has the power and heart to win. That is all of marciano's attributes. Incredible power and heart of no other boxer.

Ironic you say that, because Patterson knocked out Moore to become the then youngest heavyweight champion.

*SIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHHHHH*

Made a mistake. Oh well. I forgot your the all knowning boxing god.... sarcasm.

edit- Your wasting your time trying to make someone look stupid. Do something valuable with your time.

Made a mistake. Oh well. I forgot your the all knowning boxing god.... sarcasm.

edit- Your wasting your time trying to make someone look stupid. Do something valuable with your time.im not trying to make anyone look stupid. I pointed out your mistake.

the difference with me, i dont comment on things that i know very little about. I look at facts, you look at digits.

this digit makes everyone look stupid though when they bring it up

49-0

Made a mistake. Oh well. I forgot your the all knowning boxing god.... sarcasm.

edit- Your wasting your time trying to make someone look stupid. Do something valuable with your time.

It's pretty obvious you don't know what I mean. Rocky is a tough dude, he has a shot at beating the lower tier heavyweights, but the upper echelon he does not (or at least a very high chance). Rocky struggled greatly with opponents that most "greats" would have manhandled at the time he fought them.

This was only Ali's 15th pro fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zg-xZadHGc

It's pretty obvious you don't know what I mean. Rocky is a tough dude, he has a shot at beating the lower tier heavyweights, but the upper echelon he does not (or at least a very high chance). Rocky struggled greatly with opponents that most "greats" would have manhandled at the time he fought them.

This was only Ali's 15th pro fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zg-xZadHGc

Moore was around 50 years old though...

im not trying to make anyone look stupid. I pointed out your mistake.

the difference with me, i dont comment on things that i know very little about. I look at facts, you look at digits.

this digit makes everyone look stupid though when they bring it up

49-0

People make mistakes. Doesn't mean I know very little. A person who knew little wouldn't know Marciano holds the highest KO% in history.


It's pretty obvious you don't know what I mean. Rocky is a tough dude, he has a shot at beating the lower tier heavyweights, but the upper echelon he does not (or at least a very high chance). Rocky struggled greatly with opponents that most "greats" would have manhandled at the time he fought them.

This was only Ali's 15th pro fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zg-xZadHGc

That was the great thing about Marciano. He would struggle but come up with a win. That is what makes him great. He would just never quit. You had to kill him to win. He struggled because he didn't have any talent. Even you can respect that. All the greats have something that make them 'great'.

Ali is his grace and speed.
Foreman is his power.
Marciano is his heart.

How can you beat something that never quit(never stayed down) and hit you in the 15th round just as hard as he hit you in the 1st?

In the words of Floyd Patterson: "Jersey Joe Walcott had made him miss for twelve rounds and then Rocky took his title away in the thirteenth."

People make mistakes. Doesn't mean I know very little. A person who knew little wouldn't know Marciano holds the highest KO% in history.




That was the great thing about Marciano. He would struggle but come up with a win. That is what makes him great. He would just never quit. You had to kill him to win. He struggled because he didn't have any talent. Even you can respect that. All the greats have something that make them 'great'.

Ali is his grace and speed.
Foreman is his power.
Marciano is his heart.

How can you beat something that never quit(never stayed down) and hit you in the 15th round just as hard as he hit you in the 1st?

In the words of Floyd Patterson: "Jersey Joe Walcott had made him miss for twelve rounds and then Rocky took his title away in the thirteenth."

Man, don't waste your breath on these lamebrains. You are right and they are wrong. I've tried time and time again to knock some sense into them, but their heads are harder than Marciano's.

They just don't get it - and never will.

Moore was around 50 years old though...

wasn't he 46?

even then, he was old when Rocky fought him to.

People make mistakes. Doesn't mean I know very little. A person who knew little wouldn't know Marciano holds the highest KO% in history.




That was the great thing about Marciano. He would struggle but come up with a win. That is what makes him great. He would just never quit. You had to kill him to win. He struggled because he didn't have any talent. Even you can respect that. All the greats have something that make them 'great'.

Ali is his grace and speed.
Foreman is his power.
Marciano is his heart.

How can you beat something that never quit(never stayed down) and hit you in the 15th round just as hard as he hit you in the 1st?

In the words of Floyd Patterson: "Jersey Joe Walcott had made him miss for twelve rounds and then Rocky took his title away in the thirteenth."

I didn't say he wasn't great, i have no problem accepting him as a great. It's when you guys like to think he wups Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Foreman and Holyfield, that I start to question your judgment.

I just dont like when people try to downplay someone so great just because his record was spotless. People seem to hate the guys who are undefeated but you have to give them respect.

"Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him. Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands." -George Foreman

"As you see, I didn't make the list... The first time around, George Foreman was too mean and too crude. The second time around, too sophisticated and too publicity conscious to exploit his power..." -George Foreman

George Foreman's Heavyweight list-

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Jack Johnson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Joe Frazier
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Mike Tyson
8. Sonny Liston
9. Floyd Patterson
10. Evander Holyfield

Honorable Mention:
Max Baer
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott


Second only to another ATG on Foreman's list.... Joe Louis.

I didn't say he wasn't great, i have no problem accepting him as a great. It's when you guys like to think he wups Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Foreman and Holyfield, that I start to question your judgment.


I respect that but I never said that he would woop(in my words: dominate) any of those guys. I said he has a great chance of beating them.

I just dont like when people try to downplay someone so great just because his record was spotless. People seem to hate the guys who are undefeated but you have to give them respect.

"Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him. Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands." -George Foreman

"As you see, I didn't make the list... The first time around, George Foreman was too mean and too crude. The second time around, too sophisticated and too publicity conscious to exploit his power..." -George Foreman

George Foreman's Heavyweight list-

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Jack Johnson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Joe Frazier
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Mike Tyson
8. Sonny Liston
9. Floyd Patterson
10. Evander Holyfield

Honorable Mention:
Max Baer
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott


Second only to another ATG on Foreman's list.... Joe Louis.

To be fair, Big George also rates Tony Galento as one of the greatest boxers never to win a title!

I just dont like when people try to downplay someone so great just because his record was spotless. People seem to hate the guys who are undefeated but you have to give them respect.

"Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him. Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands." -George Foreman

"As you see, I didn't make the list... The first time around, George Foreman was too mean and too crude. The second time around, too sophisticated and too publicity conscious to exploit his power..." -George Foreman

George Foreman's Heavyweight list-

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Jack Johnson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Joe Frazier
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Mike Tyson
8. Sonny Liston
9. Floyd Patterson
10. Evander Holyfield

Honorable Mention:
Max Baer
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott


Second only to another ATG on Foreman's list.... Joe Louis.

Foreman also said that Lennox Lewis was the greatest heavyweight of all time, goes to show you where he's at.

hahaha, alright you got me there. But Marvin Hagler has no faults(in his head) with what he says...

"Naturally, the first thought that comes to mind would have to be Muhammad Ali. He was a tremendous athlete and he was the man for the sport. He brought the highlights, the money and everything to the sport, especially the art, the real good art of boxing. Ali is more my time. But before my time, it would have to be Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano." -Marvin Hagler

Marciano is what he is.
a hard puncher with tons of stamina, who used underrated head movement and a swarming attack to slow down opponents until he could catch them cleanly.

He might not have done well against certain other top heavyweights, but if you throw him up against the best Cruiserweights of all time, he would be at least number 2.

Charles and Moore may have been better at lower weights, but they were respectably good at heavyweight as well, so Marciano deserves credit for beating them. and he also beat some decent guys outside of Charles, Moore and Walcott...nothing amazing, but they werent too bad.

I would rate him higher than Dempsey and Jack Johnson, but Im not entirely sure about him being top ten. probebly lower top ten, dunno and I dont feel like thinking about it tonight.

Foreman said a lot of things. But Ali and Frazier also thought that Marciano was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.

Frazier said Marciano was greater than him, Ali said that Marciano could've KO'd a lot of his title challengers that he had trouble finishing.

Even Larry Holmes after ranting on and on about "Marciano not being able to carry his jockstrap" did eventually admit that Marciano was one of the greatest and stated that no one who wasn't great could not have beaten 49 opponents in a row and retire undefeated.

Foreman said a lot of things. But Ali and Frazier also thought that Marciano was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.

Frazier said Marciano was greater than him, Ali said that Marciano could've KO'd a lot of his title challengers that he had trouble finishing.

Even Larry Holmes after ranting on and on about "Marciano not being able to carry his jockstrap" did eventually admit that Marciano was one of the greatest and stated that no one who wasn't great could not have beaten 49 opponents in a row and retire undefeated.

Didn't Ali also say that Marciano fought "Old" fighters and had Charles, Walcott, Moore, and Louis been in their prime they would have won?

Which makes me appreciate it even more because even Nikolay Valuev and Brian Nielsen were so close and they just couldn't do it.

What was Nielson's win streak anyway: 48-0 or 49-0?

Which makes me appreciate it even more because even Nikolay Valuev and Brian Nielsen were so close and they just couldn't do it.

What was Nielson's win streak anyway: 48-0 or 49-0?

49-0.

The Marciano curse got to him in the final round against journeyman Dicky Ryan and he had to give up due to severe dehydration, just two minutes away from breaking the record.

It was supposed to be an easy win such as the Holmes-Spinks fight.

49-0.

The Marciano curse got to him in the final round against journeyman Dicky Ryan and he had to give up due to severe dehydration, just two minutes away from breaking the record.

It was supposed to be an easy win such as the Holmes-Spinks fight.

I would really prefer talking about Marciano vs. other fightes under 200 pounds. I think we all can have a better discussion with that.


Marciano vs. Dempsey
vs. Prime Louis
vs. Tunney
vs. Patterson
vs. Holyfield {CW version}
vs. Spinks
vs. James Toney {CW version that fought Jirov

I would really prefer talking about Marciano vs. other fightes under 200 pounds. I think we all can have a better discussion with that.


Marciano vs. Dempsey
vs. Prime Louis
vs. Tunney
vs. Patterson
vs. Holyfield {CW version}
vs. Spinks
vs. James Toney {CW version that fought Jirov

I agree. Marciano never fought any world class contender over 210 lbs (except an old Louis who weighed around 205 in his prime) and with his style I don't really see him having great success against bigger, stronger fighters.

I'm not saying I would count him out against them but as you said, it's better to match him up against fighters his size.

Holyfield vs Marciano at 190 lbs would've been something.

I agree. Marciano never fought any world class contender over 210 lbs (except an old Louis who weighed around 205 in his prime) and with his style I don't really see him having great success against bigger, stronger fighters.

I'm not saying I would count him out against them but as you said, it's better to match him up against fighters his size.

Holyfield vs Marciano at 190 lbs would've been something.

True, you really can't count anyone out.

Holyfield vs. Marciano would be a great matchup.

One thing I would stress about Marciano was his work-ethic. If I was a trainer, he is one fighter I would talk about with a student to use as an example for a fighter that came in shape 100%, both mind and body for every fight.

Can't argue with 49-0, agreed there wasn't a prime crop of heavyweights at the time but thats not Marciano's fault you can only beat who is in front of you.
Great stamina great punching and a great chin and a huge heart always gives you a chance. Difficult to say as always to say where he fits in the top all time heavyweights but someone you arn't going to knock out and who will be there in the last round hitting as hard as he did in the 1st is going to give anyone problems. I saw someone make the point that wouldn't Joe Frasier have beaten everyone Marciano did and it is a good point. I certainly think Marciano would have beaten Patterson so 49-0 could certainly have been extended a few years fitness and age permitting.
Think the biggest problem is when you take someone out of their era, Marciano was a bleeder would the referees of today and the last 30 years have allowed him to continue and would they have allowed some of his more dubious tatics?

Are u guys still debating the strengths and weakness of Rocky Marciano? Man, the guy must have been some kind of fighter to warrant all this attention.

;)

I love The Rock but I can understand why he is so undervalued by alot of modern fans. First his size..alot of the bigger fighters would, theoretically, keep him at bay and hammer him. Plus he would be outweighed by 30-40 lbs,if not more, by most of the more modern greats.

In addition you have to wonder since he was a notoriously slow starter, if he could endure the punishment inflicted on him before he was able to do what he was best at doing. His defense was his ability to absorb ungodly amounts of pain and keep coming...if you have ever noticed more times than not he looked worse than the loser of the fight.

You would also have to wonder if, by todays standards, some of his fights would have been stopped because of cuts and damage inflicted upon him. With all of that being said I would have to say he had a shot of defeating anyone becuase of his concussive power and tenacity.

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