I remember reading in the book "Facing Ali" that Shaver's trainers didn't really improve his boxing skills and focus mainly on his punching. "Because I could punch so hard, all the trainers wanted me to do was improve on my punchnig, not my boxing skills."

Do you guys think he could crack the top 20 or even top 10 HW of all time if he had a better trainer?

I remember reading in the book "Facing Ali" that Shaver's trainers didn't really improve his boxing skills and focus mainly on his punching. "Because I could punch so hard, all the trainers wanted me to do was improve on my punchnig, not my boxing skills."

Do you guys think he could crack the top 20 or even top 10 HW of all time if he had a better trainer?

Most likely, but he was sorta chinny, so it's hard to say.

I'm a big fan of Shavers. Good trainer or not, he got to where he was by his God given gift of power. But, good trainer or not, he also was smart enough to know that he juiced out in a lot of his fights, so he should have known that was the one area that he could control. You can't train your jaw to soak up a punch better once you've had 50+ pro fights. But you can always keep your cardio in top form.
Another thing about Earnie...he's listed in lots of places as 6'1". He was really only 6'0", maybe a shade less. His size was small compared to a lot of the big giants, but he had more crack in his punch than most other heavyweights ever dreamed of having. He got the very most from his physical tools.
I look at Earnie Shavers sort of a poor man's George Foreman. George had stamina problems as well, but his whiskers held up better than Earnie's did.
Foreman was matched well, with guys who would be in front of him. Except for Ali and Young, both extra-gifted boxers, he looked unbeatable. Shavers, on the other hand, once he saw that he was running out of gas and his power was also running on low, lost to guys that Foreman would have destroyed.
Bottom line in my opinion, he needed a better match maker more than a better trainer. But either way, a hundred years from know, people will still be talking about Earnie Shavers. Title or not, he's a great fighter in my book. He gave us lots of great moments to remember.

May have been a champ in era without Ali and Holmes.

May have been a champ in era without Ali and Holmes.

Yea I'd love to see him crack Chris Aereolla good and proper. In todays HW division where defense doesn't exist, it would be killing grounds for Shavers.

Well Shavers would be a CW today (most of whom weigh 210-215 on fight night.) Which is to say he would probably destroy the current crop. Shavers/Haye would be an interesting scrap.

Earnie Shavers had scary crippiling power, he never had much else in his arsenal, but his power took him a pretty long way and nearly put a World Title round his waist.

Shavers was a heavyhanded puncher on either side, but there are those who will tell you his overhand right was the single hardest punch in the history of the sport. No less than Muhhamed Ali called Earnie Shavers the hardest hitter he'd ever fought and this was coming from a guy who been in with George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Bob Foster, Archie Moore and Joe Frazier.

I belive Shavers 2 greatest KO'S were against Jimmy Ellis, who was a former WBA Heavyweight Champion and Shavers being a rising contender. They met in June 73, Ellis was for more skilled than the crude Shavers and appeared to have Shavers hurt early and was getting the better of him. Until while Ellis was throwing a flurry of punchers Shavers drilled home a right uppercut on the chin of Ellis and dropped him for the full count.

His next one being against another former World Champion Ken Norton, who had held the WBC Title. Only 1 year before Norton had lost a razor thin decision to Larry Holmes and was also going into the fight with a win over Muhhamed Ali and Jerry Quarry. Once again Shavers showed crippling power knocking out Norton cold in the first.

He also had good KO wins over Roy Williams, and a very inexprienced Jimmy Young.

Shavers was do a very one trick pony. His chin was unreliable. He could be clumsy. He cut. His stamina was poor and it was very well known if you could get past the first 5 rounds you had a hell of a chance. But all he had to do was touch you with the right. If he did chances were you were going a sleep.

And to be onest when at look back at some heavyweight champions over the years, i think Shavers was worthy of a strap. But the era he was involved in was such a hard era of Heavyweights.

His KO Win over Norton
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Ali saying Shavers was the hardest hitter he ever faced.
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Earnie Shavers vs Jimmy Ellis
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Yea I'd love to see him crack Chris Aereolla good and proper. In todays HW division where defense doesn't exist, it would be killing grounds for Shavers.

Yeah, so much for the "giants" of today's Heavyweight division. 500 pounds of lard in the ring Saturday night.

Poet

the only HW's that should weigh over 245 or so are valuev and the klitschkos

really, we dont live in an era of "superheavies", just a few superheavies and the rest are plain fat

arreola should weigh in at 230-5, i dunno what he is thinking showing up looking like a beached whale

the only HW's that should weigh over 245 or so are valuev and the klitschkos

really, we dont live in an era of "superheavies", just a few superheavies and the rest are plain fat

arreola should weigh in at 230-5, i dunno what he is thinking showing up looking like a beached whale

There is no dout Arreola carry's uneeded fat on him, and could easy drop a good few pounds. But up to now, he is doing pretty ok. But he dosen't really look the hardest of trainers in the gym, but he is pretty skillfull and strong and very heavy handed, and up to now seems to be doing pretty good.

He won the National Golden Gloves Light Heavyweight Championship In 2001 at the age of 20, weighing 178lbs. And now only 8 years later is weighing 255lbs.Which is even more of a sign to me he has let himself go as a fighter and is carrying uneeded fat on him.

I've read that book.. It's a superb read.. Starts off with Tunney Hunsucker & goes through the lot.. There's a whole chapter on Jean Pierre Coopman... That's how detailed it is..

With regard to Earnie Shavers potential, I think the toughest doorman on the Wirrel's about right.. Sorry if I've upset anyone, but Shavers was ONLY a puncher.. Gerry Quarry proved that & he wasn't exceptional.. He was always gonna be up against it due to the abundance of quality around at the time.. I'd say he hit about as hard as Bruno, but nowhere near as hard as Foreman..

I'd say he fulfilled it, he came pretty far with such a late start in boxing on power alone.

He had PUNCHING POWER.

I'm a big fan of Shavers. Good trainer or not, he got to where he was by his God given gift of power. But, good trainer or not, he also was smart enough to know that he juiced out in a lot of his fights, so he should have known that was the one area that he could control. You can't train your jaw to soak up a punch better once you've had 50+ pro fights. But you can always keep your cardio in top form.
Another thing about Earnie...he's listed in lots of places as 6'1". He was really only 6'0", maybe a shade less. His size was small compared to a lot of the big giants, but he had more crack in his punch than most other heavyweights ever dreamed of having. He got the very most from his physical tools.

I agree, here he is with Nigel Benn (5'9 according to boxrec) and Kevin Lueshing (5'11 according to boxrec)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cumbria/content/images/2005/11/23/03_earnie_nigel_470x312.jpg

I've read that book.. It's a superb read.. Starts off with Tunney Hunsucker & goes through the lot.. There's a whole chapter on Jean Pierre Coopman... That's how detailed it is..

With regard to Earnie Shavers potential, I think the toughest doorman on the Wirrel's about right.. Sorry if I've upset anyone, but Shavers was ONLY a puncher.. Gerry Quarry proved that & he wasn't exceptional.. He was always gonna be up against it due to the abundance of quality around at the time.. I'd say he hit about as hard as Bruno, but nowhere near as hard as Foreman..

Quarry was an exceptional fighter who had the misfortune of having to compete in the toughest era in heavyweight history as well as bad skin. One of the best heavies to never win a title in my opinion. Like Shavers, Lyle and a few others, he was second teir compared to the elite of that era. But make no mistake, the man could fight and had a champions heart.

Quarry was an exceptional fighter who had the misfortune of having to compete in the toughest era in heavyweight history as well as bad skin. One of the best heavies to never win a title in my opinion. Like Shavers, Lyle and a few others, he was second teir compared to the elite of that era. But make no mistake, the man could fight and had a champions heart.
He was good alright, but I feel you rate him just a tad higher than me.. If he were around today, he'd have a belt for sure.. As it was there were about 9 defeats and a few draws on his record as he gamely fought in one of the toughest HW eras of all time..
I wasn't aware of his skin condition.. Many thanks for enlightening me.. Regards MM

Awsome puncher and in a lot of eras would have got a title for sure. Scary to think of him with a granite chin and stamina. As for superheavyweights, not another division we have got enough titles floating around.

I'm a big fan of Shavers. Good trainer or not, he got to where he was by his God given gift of power. But, good trainer or not, he also was smart enough to know that he juiced out in a lot of his fights, so he should have known that was the one area that he could control. You can't train your jaw to soak up a punch better once you've had 50+ pro fights. But you can always keep your cardio in top form.
Another thing about Earnie...he's listed in lots of places as 6'1". He was really only 6'0", maybe a shade less. His size was small compared to a lot of the big giants, but he had more crack in his punch than most other heavyweights ever dreamed of having. He got the very most from his physical tools.
I look at Earnie Shavers sort of a poor man's George Foreman. George had stamina problems as well, but his whiskers held up better than Earnie's did.
Foreman was matched well, with guys who would be in front of him. Except for Ali and Young, both extra-gifted boxers, he looked unbeatable. Shavers, on the other hand, once he saw that he was running out of gas and his power was also running on low, lost to guys that Foreman would have destroyed.
Bottom line in my opinion, he needed a better match maker more than a better trainer. But either way, a hundred years from know, people will still be talking about Earnie Shavers. Title or not, he's a great fighter in my book. He gave us lots of great moments to remember.

** Solid shout for Shavers Terry. Guy has fans everywhere and one of the most popular autographs everytime he shows up for IBHOF ceremonies.

Sir'enery another slugger also quite popular, was unable to finish Ali because his KD came at the bell. Ernie had both Ali and Holmes in the palm of his hand and they slipped away. Spot on about the criticisms of Ernie, he could've shown more discipline to improve his chances, however as the article noted, he was exploited for his pure, raw, country boy power and was shorted with inferior trainers and preparation. He was always complaining about the lack of class sparring partners where he might have been able to pick up some tricks naturally.

Much unrealized talent, but a bit overrated because of his menacing ring presence and raw power. Never really blasted out any of the top heavies save Norton who was right at the end of his career and always susceptible to big punchers much as Ernie was. Norton was the only win over a top 10 fighter that he had, another reason for being overrated.

The guy greatly underrated of this era is Quarry who also could have used some discipline. I'd say Quarry was actually the best pure boxer/puncher of the era and his chin was first class. He's a better fighter than many of the heavies in the HOF, plus when we see him guest announcing fights, a very sharp understanding of boxing that he was able to articulate to the common fan.

Earnie Shavers lives on my road right now, no lies! lol

Yeah, so much for the "giants" of today's Heavyweight division. 500 pounds of lard in the ring Saturday night.

Poet

Dont be fooled by looks arreloa, would of beat shavers, once you take earnie past the 5th round he is there for the takeing. Very stupid comment you made about 500 pounds of lard, but thats all you do most of the time on this forum is make comments like that.

Dont be fooled by looks arreloa, would of beat shavers, once you take earnie past the 5th round he is there for the takeing. Very stupid comment you made about 500 pounds of lard, but thats all you do most of the time on this forum is make comments like that.

Nothing indicates that the fight would go past 5 rounds.

Arreola is easy to hit and not particularly skillful. His chin is a question mark IMO. Not really the kind of boxer that I would pick to beat Shavers.

Nothing indicates that the fight would go past 5 rounds.

Go and look at shavers record even in his prime a fighter loseing more than he had won handled him. Arrolea is bigger, takes a better shot and has better stamina, and alot more skills.

Go and look at shavers record even in his prime a fighter loseing more than he had won handled him. Arrolea is bigger, takes a better shot and has better stamina, and alot more skills.

It's funny that Shavers walked around at 220 lbs since he was 18-20 years old while Arreola fought at 178 at that age yet Arreola now fights at 40-50 lbs heavier than Shavers did in his prime. Arreola should weigh no more than 230 lbs in my opinion, his weight is going to cost him at some point.

I don't know if he takes a better punch. Shavers' chin is underrated, the presumption that Shavers had a "glass jaw" is based on the fight against Jerry Quarry. People forget that he had not even taken a solid punch at that point of his career and had no idea of what to do after Quarry caught him flush. He froze up and Quarry stopped him by landing around 60 unanswered punches.

Shavers showed heart later on in his career against Roy Williams, Jeff Sims, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes.

I also don't know about Arreola having better stamina. His last couple of fights haven't gone longer than 3 or 4 rounds and he is way overweight. In the past he has shown the ability to go rounds but that was 30 lbs ago. When Earnie trained hard and paced himself he went 15 rounds against Ali and had success in the later rounds.

Arreola is well-schooled with an extensive amateur background but he seems to prefer brawling than boxing even though he might have the ability. He throws great combinations but has shown little defense in his past couple of fights.

Shavers did develop a strong jab and a solid defense during the latter part of his career. Both Ali and Holmes remarked how hard it was to hit him solidly with a jab and he would take every advantage to counter with his powerful right.

I have that book (Facing Ali) laying about somewhere. Great read, hearing the views of many of Ali's opponents giving their story of events, and sharing a ring with the most famous athlete of all time.

Joe Frazier's chapter was a good insight to why Joe still has envious views on Ali.

It's funny that Shavers walked around at 220 lbs since he was 18-20 years old while Arreola fought at 178 at that age yet Arreola now fights at 40-50 lbs heavier than Shavers did in his prime. Arreola should weigh no more than 230 lbs in my opinion, his weight is going to cost him at some point.

I don't know if he takes a better punch. Shavers' chin is underrated, the presumption that Shavers had a "glass jaw" is based on the fight against Jerry Quarry. People forget that he had not even taken a solid punch at that point of his career and had no idea of what to do after Quarry caught him flush. He froze up and Quarry stopped him by landing around 60 unanswered punches.

Shavers showed heart later on in his career against Roy Williams, Jeff Sims, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes.

I also don't know about Arreola having better stamina. His last couple of fights haven't gone longer than 3 or 4 rounds and he is way overweight. In the past he has shown the ability to go rounds but that was 30 lbs ago. When Earnie trained hard and paced himself he went 15 rounds against Ali and had success in the later rounds.

Arreola is well-schooled with an extensive amateur background but he seems to prefer brawling than boxing even though he might have the ability. He throws great combinations but has shown little defense in his past couple of fights.

Shavers did develop a strong jab and a solid defense during the latter part of his career. Both Ali and Holmes remarked how hard it was to hit him solidly with a jab and he would take every advantage to counter with his powerful right.

Machine as i have said before you would argue that the sky isnt blue, and you would write half a page then explaining why your right and everyone is wrong

Machine as i have said before you would argue that the sky isnt blue, and you would write half a page then explaining why your right and everyone is wrong

:thinking:

Is it that ridiculous to suggest that Earnie Shavers could beat Chris Arreola?

:thinking:

Is it that ridiculous to suggest that Earnie Shavers could beat Chris Arreola?

No it isn't. cotto16 is just a tool.

Poet

Machine as i have said before you would argue that the sky isnt blue, and you would write half a page then explaining why your right and everyone is wrong

Must suck to be wrong all time Cotto, worse: Have it proved in video for all to see. Maybe when you get tired of having your ignorance exposed by your betters you'll slink back over to NSB with the other fan-bois.

Poet

Very stupid comment you made about 500 pounds of lard, but thats all you do most of the time on this forum is make comments like that.

That comment was dead accurate and anyone watching that fight knows it: Two obese Michelin Men bumping bellies and hugging each other like it was Prom Night at the fat farm.

Poet

Must suck to be wrong all time Cotto, worse: Have it proved in video for all to see. Maybe when you get tired of having your ignorance exposed by your betters you'll slink back over to NSB with the other fan-bois.

Poet

Must suck even worse to be a over 25 star wars fan, and get thrown of a forum only to come back with you tail between your legs and beg for forgiviness.

That comment was dead accurate and anyone watching that fight knows it: Two obese Michelin Men bumping bellies and hugging each other like it was Prom Night at the fat farm.

Poet

Boxing is about skill and heart, not how good your body is, you want good shapes go and watch bodybuilding or wwe

Must suck even worse to be a over 25 star wars fan, and get thrown of a forum only to come back with you tail between your legs and beg for forgiviness.

Anbody hear me beg for forgiveness? And you won't either so keep dreaming. If anything it's just made me more pissed off and inclined to slap dip-sh1ts like you around.

Poet

Boxing is about skill and heart, not how good your body is, you want good shapes go and watch bodybuilding or wwe

Name me one LEGITIMATE Heavyweight champion who was obese (and NO, Tony Tubbs is NOT legitimate). You can't, of course. You're just suddenly partial to lard because you're hanging all over Arrieola's nut sack.

Poet

shavers could whack

Man. Earnie shavers could pack some power!

This man lives on my road. Yeah baby.

yes i think so that shavers would be better with a better trainer who have had improve his boxing skills, his power was really awesome just look at my sig xD

Shavers was a big puncher but very limited in the skills department, he had zero footwork and not the best of chin`s but his power was awesome and it carried him his whole career

I remember reading in the book "Facing Ali" that Shaver's trainers didn't really improve his boxing skills and focus mainly on his punching. "Because I could punch so hard, all the trainers wanted me to do was improve on my punchnig, not my boxing skills."

Do you guys think he could crack the top 20 or even top 10 HW of all time if he had a better trainer?

If Earnie Shavers had been trained by an Eddie Futch, who could have taught him how to cover up in a crouch like position ala Joe Frazier, he would have had a better chance at being an elite heavyweight during his prime. Unfortunately, he was one dimensional.

If Earnie Shavers had been trained by an Eddie Futch, who could have taught him how to cover up in a crouch like position ala Joe Frazier, he would have had a better chance at being an elite heavyweight during his prime. Unfortunately, he was one dimensional.

He was trained by Archie Moore for a while, before his fight against Jimmy Ellis.

Shavers said that Moore taught him how and where to punch, making his punches even more devastating. He said he lost his confidence when Don King fired Moore and hired some other trainer, who didn't improve on his technique.

He was trained by Archie Moore for a while, before his fight against Jimmy Ellis.

Shavers said that Moore taught him how and where to punch, making his punches even more devastating. He said he lost his confidence when Don King fired Moore and hired some other trainer, who didn't improve on his technique.

Thank you for enlightening me on his being trained by Moore. Did Moore teach him the same stance that he and Foreman used? That stance would have helped him greatly later in his career. One problem earnie had was that he fought in an era that had so many great heavyweights that it would have been nearly impossible to win the title. That being said, a better defense could have gotten him the win against Ali back in 77.

Every time you provide analysis, it is very precise and well stated.

Thank you for enlightening me on his being trained by Moore. Did Moore teach him the same stance that he and Foreman used? That stance would have helped him greatly later in his career. One problem earnie had was that he fought in an era that had so many great heavyweights that it would have been nearly impossible to win the title. That being said, a better defense could have gotten him the win against Ali back in 77.

Every time you provide analysis, it is very precise and well stated.

He did teach him the cross-arm defense, which Shavers used when he was in trouble. The problem was that Shavers would simply freeze up and cross his arms unlike Moore who would slip punches and counter.

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To be fair to Shavers, the man almost won the title twice even with all his limitations. He nearly had Ali out in the 2nd round and lost a competitive decision, and had Holmes all but KO'd with the right hand he landed. Holmes' recovery was miraculous.

He did teach him the cross-arm defense, which Shavers used when he was in trouble. The problem was that Shavers would simply freeze up and cross his arms unlike Moore who would slip punches and counter.

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To be fair to Shavers, the man almost won the title twice even with all his limitations. He nearly had Ali out in the 2nd round and lost a competitive decision, and had Holmes all but KO'd with the right hand he landed. Holmes' recovery was miraculous.

When Holmes went down It was as though he had gotten shot. What helped him recover was the amount of punishment he gave Shavers that night. Shavers couldn't finish him off because he had taken such a beaten. Also, Holmes had tremendous heart.

Shavers faded down the stretch against Ali. In the 15th round, Shavers was saved by the bell as Ali had him in severe trouble. Shavers fought the best fight of his life that night and garnered a lot of respect from Ali. It also got him an elimination fight the following spring against Holmes. Unfornately, Holmes shut him out over 12 rounds.