Sugar Ray Lennord vs Aaron Pryor
Who Wins?

Honestly i like Pryor in this one. I think he had what it took to beat SRL. Pryor pubicly called out SRL several times, and every time SRL ignored him, wanted no part of him.

What do you guys think???

Leonard would win a decision.

The fight only made sense after 1982, unfortunately Leonard had to retire that year due to the eye injury he sustained during the fight against Thomas Hearns. Even then I would've rather seen Leonard fight Marvin Hagler, not Pryor who was a small light welterweight.

I think Pryor was a good fighter but I've never joined the cult that's cropped up around him. Pryor made his reputation off of beating a washed up Alexis Arguello two weight classes over his optimal division. Who else did Pryor beat? No one. Certainly no one that would make me think Aaron had the physical tools and boxing skills to beat a fighter the calibre of Ray Leonard. Or Tommy Hearns and Wilfred Benitez for that matter.

Poet

I think Pryor was a good fighter but I've never joined the cult that's cropped up around him. Pryor made his reputation off of beating a washed up Alexis Arguello two weight classes over his optimal division. Who else did Pryor beat? No one. Certainly no one that would make me think Aaron had the physical tools and boxing skills to beat a fighter the calibre of Ray Leonard. Or Tommy Hearns and Wilfred Benitez for that matter.

Poet

Aaron Pryor beat Tommy Hearns in the amateurs. He also beat Antonio Cervantes, Sang Hyu Kim, and Dujan Johnson who were top 140 pounders.

Also as for the topic, Lennox Lewis-Riddick Bowe and Roy Jones Jr and DM. Especially the later one.

Aaron Pryor beat Tommy Hearns in the amateurs. He also beat Antonio Cervantes, Sang Hyu Kim, and Dujan Johnson who were top 140 pounders.

Also as for the topic, Lennox Lewis-Riddick Bowe and Roy Jones Jr and DM. Especially the later one.

I don't really think too much of the win over Hearns. Hearns weighed around 130-135 lbs and was only 17 years old from what I remember while Pryor was years older. I believe Hearns would've KO'd Pryor at 147 lbs.

Pryor had some good wins and I certainly rate him as a 140 lber but I do not understand why people think that Ray Leonard, who fought Benitez, Duran and Hearns almost back-to-back at 147 lbs, was ducking a light welterweight Aaron Pryor who until 1982, when Leonard had already retired, had not beaten a name aside from an ancient Antonio Cervantes.

It's not like Pryor ever did anything at welterweight to push for the fight to happen unlike Duran and Hearns.

I think Pryor was a good fighter but I've never joined the cult that's cropped up around him. Pryor made his reputation off of beating a washed up Alexis Arguello two weight classes over his optimal division. Who else did Pryor beat? No one. Certainly no one that would make me think Aaron had the physical tools and boxing skills to beat a fighter the calibre of Ray Leonard. Or Tommy Hearns and Wilfred Benitez for that matter.

Poet


Think your disrepecting the Hawk to much here in your post.

Yes the reason we never got to see more of him was due to drugs addiction. But in his prime he was one hell of a fighter. You say a washed up Alexis Arguello.

How does this work out.When Arguello fought Pryor the first time going into that fight he hadn't been beat in 4 years, and going into the Pryor fight his last five fights had all been by KO and was looking as destrutive as ever, he was not washed up.

You also forgot to metion his 8 WBA title defences at light welterweight and won them all with tko wins, you say who else did he beat beisdes Arguello, he also stopped Antonio Cervantes who had not been beat in 4 years, and was on his 6th defence of his WBA title, and the last fighter to beat him was Wilfred Benitez on a SD, and Benitez would never give him the rematch. Pyor stopped him in 4.

You also say he wasn't on the level of a Hearns or Benitez? which i can't understand. As when Pryor was in his prime he was more consistet and dominate than Benitez and just as good as Hearns.And am not the only one who thinks this as when ''Ring Magzaine done a list of the 80 greatest fighters of the last 80 years they ranked Pryor 35th, Hearns 67th, and Benitez 68th. So he was 23 places above Hearns and 24 above Benitez.

You also say he had no physical tools or boxing skills to beat the likes of Leonard.

Well maybe he didn't have great skills, but should that make not any less of a fighter, because it didn't make Armstrong or Marcaino any less of a fighter. he had unbeliavble cardio, cast iron chin and a workrate that hadn't been seen since Henry Armstrong.

And you say he wound't of beat a fighter of Ray Leonard, did you know something that Ray didn't because Ray avoided him enough, and they sparred numerous rounds and had both dropped each other , so i think the Hawk was in Ray's league, no dout.

You also say he cound't of beat a fighter of Thomas Hearns, well it not much to go of but they fought a year before both turning pro, with no headguards on and Pryor had the ''physical tools'' to dominate him start to finish to get a UD points win. and i think he could of done the same in the Pro's.

So my point is you don't have to be a huge fan of Pryors, but just show him more respect and to say he wasn't in the league or wound of not had the skills or physical tools to not beat Leanord or even Hearns or Benitez a pretty silly comment.

If you think pryor would have his way with hearns just because he won in the amateurs, then you need to look more at hearns, he wasnt a KO artist he became when he fought pryor. Arguello had pryor hurt alot in the first fight, hearns punched harder than he did, im not saying a KO for hearns but definetely a decison in his favor.

As for srl/pryor, i beleive srl would decision him easy. One fight that never happend but should of was foreman/holmes.

If you think pryor would have his way with hearns just because he won in the amateurs, then you need to look more at hearns, he wasnt a KO artist he became when he fought pryor. Arguello had pryor hurt alot in the first fight, hearns punched harder than he did, im not saying a KO for hearns but definetely a decison in his favor.

As for srl/pryor, i beleive srl would decision him easy. One fight that never happend but should of was foreman/holmes.

But your forgetting that Hearns alywas struggled with pressure fighters, when Leoanrd put pressure on him he he sunk, when Hagler put pressure he sunk, and when Barkley upped the pressure he sunk. And Hearns also never had the most steady of chins either and i think Hawk may of hurt Hearns.

Leonard would win a decision.

The fight only made sense after 1982, unfortunately Leonard had to retire that year due to the eye injury he sustained during the fight against Thomas Hearns. Even then I would've rather seen Leonard fight Marvin Hagler, not Pryor who was a small light welterweight.

You don't give Pryor enough credit as a fighter. I corrected you a couple of months back when you said he wasn't in the league of Hears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManchine
Pryor was not on the level of Hearns and Leonard in my opinion. He's smaller too.

Hmmmm, very interesting that you claim Pryor wasn't on level of Leonard or Hearns.

Maybe he didn't achieve as much as they did in terms of legacy, but when they were all in their prime i think Pryor was on the level of both fighters . But what people forget is Pryor was never defeated in his prime.

Was the number #1 lighweight contender but the was avoided so moved up to the Lw division, were he stopped hall of famer Antonio Cervantes in 4 for the WBA title, and would go on to make 8 title defecnes and in those defences stopped the great Alexis Arguello x2 and then would go on to win the IBF title and make a defence.

In my mind he was also avoided my Ray Lenoard, people even say Ray moved up a weight class to avoided Pryor in the amature's. And also he would never accept the challage of Pryor.

It just such a shame that drugs got hold of Aaron Pryor, because i belive The Hawk could of been up there with the likes of Leanord, Armsrotng, Greb, Robinson etc if drugs had not got hold of him.

He also beat Thomas Hearns in the Golden Glove final(Amature), and i think he could of beat Tommy in his prime in the pro ranks.

Your avater shows a Ring Magzine cover, the same Ring Magzine that done a list The 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years in 2003 - in which they ranked Aaron Pryor number #35 and Thomas Hearns number #67. 32 Places, so Ring also think Pryor had a better legacy.

So to say Pryor was not on the level of Hearns and Leonard in his prime is a pretty silly comment.

Sugar Ray Lennord vs Aaron Pryor
Who Wins?

Honestly i like Pryor in this one. I think he had what it took to beat SRL. Pryor pubicly called out SRL several times, and every time SRL ignored him, wanted no part of him.

What do you guys think???

Leonard offered Pryor a fight, but Pryor wasn't happy with $500,000. According to a really good Sports Illustrated article around that time.

Leonard by UD.

I don't like Pryor's chances at welterweight, especially at that time period with such excellent fighters at 147. Especially Hearns. As a pro, at 147, that would've been an ugly loss to the Hawk.

Pryor's legacy/standing is hurt more by the champs at 135 (whom Pryor most likely would've beat) not wanting to fight him, not the fact that he never fought guys like Leonard and Hearns who would've most likely beat him.

Ring Magzaine done a list of the 80 greatest fighters of the last 80 years they ranked Pryor 35th, Hearns 67th, and Benitez 68th. So he was 23 places above Hearns and 24 above Benitez.

I think that those rankings are pretty poor.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I really can't understand the reasoning behind them.

IMO, Hearns was way too low on that Ring list. Pryor was too high. So was Dempsey.

Hearns may have lost his 2 biggest fights to Leonard and Hagler but it's not like he didn't have his share of big wins as well.

Was the number #1 lighweight contender but the was avoided so moved up to the Lw division, were he stopped hall of famer Antonio Cervantes in 4 for the WBA title, and would go on to make 8 title defecnes and in those defences stopped the great Alexis Arguello x2 and then would go on to win the IBF title and make a defence.

Pryor was only the number 1 lightweight contender while he was the light welterweight champion. He rarely ever fought as a lightweight but he could make the 135 lb limit as well as 140 lbs. The champion at lightweight was Alexis Arguello who moved up to 140 lbs to challenge Pryor. No one avoided him.

Cervantes was a very good fighter in his prime but he was at the end of his run when he faced Pryor. A 17 year old Benitez took a prime Cervantes to school and believe me there was nothing controversial about the decision.

Pryor in his prime was a very good, exciting fighter but for whatever reason he has become highly overrated in the past few years. I used to think he was underrated until now.

Pryor was only the number 1 lightweight contender while he was the light welterweight champion. He rarely ever fought as a lightweight but he could make the 135 lb limit as well as 140 lbs. The champion at lightweight was Alexis Arguello who moved up to 140 lbs to challenge Pryor. No one avoided him.

Cervantes was a very good fighter in his prime but he was at the end of his run when he faced Pryor. A 17 year old Benitez took a prime Cervantes to school and believe me there was nothing controversial about the decision.

Pryor in his prime was a very good, exciting fighter but for whatever reason he has become highly overrated in the past few years. I used to think he was underrated until now.

I blame it on HBO's Legendary Nights.

Well, not for The Ring overrating him in 2002, but on message boards.

The best opponent Pryor fought prior to winning the light welterweight title:

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I guess he should receive some credit for beating a shot Alfonso Frazer as well.

Pryor was an A fighter with a B resume.

I rank him pretty highly in terms of head-to-head matchups at 140, but resume/achievement wise, he's not too impressive compared to the guys he's compared with.

And it's not all the "ducking" of other fighters. His own personal and managerial problems played quite a role in him not achieving what he should've.

I think Pryor coulda edged him on points. He's ****in relentless and wouldn't be shaken by Ray's punches.

Aaron Pryor beat Tommy Hearns in the amateurs. He also beat Antonio Cervantes, Sang Hyu Kim, and Dujan Johnson who were top 140 pounders.

Also as for the topic, Lennox Lewis-Riddick Bowe and Roy Jones Jr and DM. Especially the later one.

Henry Tillman beat Mike Tyson TWICE in the amatuers and it didn't mean squat when they fought as pros. Antonio Cervantes was even more washed up than Arguello was. Sang Hyu Kim and Dujan Johnson: Please remind me, what ATG list are they on? Oh wait, they're two of the Three Stooges aren't they? Try again please.

Poet

Think your disrepecting the Hawk to much here in your post.

Yes the reason we never got to see more of him was due to drugs addiction. But in his prime he was one hell of a fighter. You say a washed up Alexis Arguello.

How does this work out.When Arguello fought Pryor the first time going into that fight he hadn't been beat in 4 years, and going into the Pryor fight his last five fights had all been by KO and was looking as destrutive as ever, he was not washed up.

You also forgot to metion his 8 WBA title defences at light welterweight and won them all with tko wins, you say who else did he beat beisdes Arguello, he also stopped Antonio Cervantes who had not been beat in 4 years, and was on his 6th defence of his WBA title, and the last fighter to beat him was Wilfred Benitez on a SD, and Benitez would never give him the rematch. Pyor stopped him in 4.

You also say he wasn't on the level of a Hearns or Benitez? which i can't understand. As when Pryor was in his prime he was more consistet and dominate than Benitez and just as good as Hearns.And am not the only one who thinks this as when ''Ring Magzaine done a list of the 80 greatest fighters of the last 80 years they ranked Pryor 35th, Hearns 67th, and Benitez 68th. So he was 23 places above Hearns and 24 above Benitez.

You also say he had no physical tools or boxing skills to beat the likes of Leonard.

Well maybe he didn't have great skills, but should that make not any less of a fighter, because it didn't make Armstrong or Marcaino any less of a fighter. he had unbeliavble cardio, cast iron chin and a workrate that hadn't been seen since Henry Armstrong.

And you say he wound't of beat a fighter of Ray Leonard, did you know something that Ray didn't because Ray avoided him enough, and they sparred numerous rounds and had both dropped each other , so i think the Hawk was in Ray's league, no dout.

You also say he cound't of beat a fighter of Thomas Hearns, well it not much to go of but they fought a year before both turning pro, with no headguards on and Pryor had the ''physical tools'' to dominate him start to finish to get a UD points win. and i think he could of done the same in the Pro's.

So my point is you don't have to be a huge fan of Pryors, but just show him more respect and to say he wasn't in the league or wound of not had the skills or physical tools to not beat Leanord or even Hearns or Benitez a pretty silly comment.

Arguello's prime weight class was Featherweight. By the time he got to Juniorwelter (another bogus division) he was no longer the fighter he once was and was fighting well past his optimal weight.

As I pointed out in a previous post, what happens in the amatuers means nothing in the pros.

You're also making the bogus claim of Ray Leonard "avoiding" Pryor. Hmmm, let me get this straight: Leonard "avoided" Pryor by fighting Benitez, Duran twice, Tommy Hearns, then retiring due to detached retinas. Funny, but all four of those guys were better, more dangerous fighters than Pryor. And I would pick ALL of them over Pryor in a head to head matchup. In the pros, NOT the amatuers. You know, where it actually counts for something.

This cult of Pryor is getting an aweful lot like the cult of Tony Ayala where a fighter gets lauded so much for accomplishing so little.

Poet

I think Pryor coulda edged him on points. He's ****in relentless and wouldn't be shaken by Ray's punches.

Leonard most likely hits hard enough to get Pryor's respect. Especially with the left hook.

Pryor had to be a little more controlled against Arguello after the first couple rounds, after getting tagged with some good shots. He boxed and used his legs, using some nice in and out movement.

I'm pretty sure that Leonard hit harder in an actual sense (not p4p sense) than Arguello.


You're also making the bogus claim of Ray Leonard "avoiding" Pryor. Hmmm, let me get this straight: Leonard "avoided" Pryor by fighting Benitez, Duran twice, Tommy Hearns, then retiring due to detached retinas. Funny, but all four of those guys were better, more dangerous fighters than Pryor. And I would pick ALL of them over Pryor in a head to head matchup. In the pros, NOT the amatuers. You know, where it actually counts for something.


I hate this "Leonard avoided Pryor" myth.

Leonard "avoided" Pryor by offering him a fight for $500,000.


This cult of Pryor is getting an aweful lot like the cult of Tony Ayala where a fighter gets lauded so much for accomplishing so little.


Let's not take it that far.

Pryor was a champion and one of the greatest ever at 140. No it's not the welterweight or middleweight division, but it's not all that bad a division historically as far as junior divisions go.

That waste of life Ayala never made it past contender level.

Pryor was an A fighter with a B resume.

I rank him pretty highly in terms of head-to-head matchups at 140, but resume/achievement wise, he's not too impressive compared to the guys he's compared with.

And it's not all the "ducking" of other fighters. His own personal and managerial problems played quite a role in him not achieving what he should've.

I definitely agree about his resume.

Pryor can probably beat just about anyone at 140 lbs but I don't see him having much success above that weight as a welter. He could take a punch as well as anybody but he took a lot of them too.

I doubt he would walk through Hearns' right hand and with his (lack of) defense he wouldn't be able to avoid it either.

What every boy should be taught before he first laces on a pair of boxing gloves is that a championship isn't an automatic pass to love and respect. They'll gird you with a championship belt, but if a boxer is to gain a greater esteem, he must earn it outside the ring. That has been a lesson harshly learned by Aaron Pryor, the WBA junior welterweight champion.

That he is the most exciting fighter in the world is without question. He hammers away at opponents in frenetic three-minute bursts until nothing upright remains to be hammered. As an amateur, the Hawk, as the 27-year-old Pryor is called, won all but 16 of 220 fights. Fifty of those never got past the first round. As a pro he is 31-0, with 29 knockouts, the last 23 in succession.

Pryor's life-style outside the ring is, unfortunately, as confusing and destructive as his tactics within it. Pryor hungers for love and respect, but he trusts no one, so he goes unnourished. And in his zigzagging wake is the debris of people he easily embraced, and just as easily abandoned. His first wife divorced him, his second shot him. He recently lost a paternity suit and gained a son. He changes lawyers and promoters the way Liberace changes clothes. In his entourage seniority can be gained in a few weeks, and lost in a wink. He recently tried to fire his manager, Buddy LaRosa, for the fourth—or maybe it was the 40th—time.

"I had nothing but good dealings with Aaron," says Elkus. "Unfortunately, he's his own worst enemy. He isn't a bad kid, and he's a kid even though he's 27. I don't think Cincinnatians look at him as a professional athlete. I think they look at him as a kid from the ghetto who had the gall to say, 'I'm going to turn down a $500,000 offer to fight Ray Leonard.' Now they like to hear that Aaron had a paternity suit, that his attorney sued him, that he fired his business manager, that he doesn't want Buddy LaRosa in his corner anymore. But all that doesn't mean anything. The guy can fight. Aaron has his minuses, but he has a lot of pluses you never hear about."

By the time they worked out a new agreement, the chance to fight Duran—and the $750,000 payday—was gone. The new contract covered six years; LaRosa's share was cut to one-third and he no longer had any ancillary rights. Expenses were to come off the top.

"The ink wasn't even dry on the damn contract," says LaRosa, "when I found out Aaron had signed a one-year promotional contract with Don King, who was going to give him a $100,000 bonus. Then King sent me the contract to sign. I told Aaron it was a mistake, but if that was what he wanted, then I'd sign.

"Aaron said, 'But King is going to get me a Duran fight, a Mamby fight, because he's got Duran and Mamby.'

" 'Aaron,' I said, 'we had a Duran fight, but you didn't want it.' "

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126084/index.htm

This article is a very good read for everybody. It exposes a lot of myths about Pryor that are often heard today.

Henry Tillman beat Mike Tyson TWICE in the amatuers and it didn't mean squat when they fought as pros. Antonio Cervantes was even more washed up than Arguello was. Sang Hyu Kim and Dujan Johnson: Please remind me, what ATG list are they on? Oh wait, they're two of the Three Stooges aren't they? Try again please.

Poet

And Forrest beat Mosley in the amateurs and still beat him in the Pros. You can't necessarily say that Pryor doesn't belong in the class of Hearns, when not only did he prove it in the pros (unlike Tilman), but he showed it was possible that he could beat Hearns.

Dujan Johnson and San Hyu Kim were top 140 pounders at the time. Cervantes might have been past his prime, but he was still a champ who had made 6 title defenses previously. Whether you think the division was weak or not, Pryor still dominated it and that's respectable imo.

Pryor doesn't have an amazing resume nor was he ducked by Leonard, but I think he is certainly one of the best fighters from the 80s.

And Forrest beat Mosley in the amateurs and still beat him in the Pros. You can't necessarily say that Pryor doesn't belong in the class of Hearns, when not only did he prove it in the pros (unlike Tilman), but he showed it was possible that he could beat Hearns.

The point is he DIDN'T show it in the pros beating NO one in Tommy Hearns' class. Again, saying he showed he could beat Hearns is the SAME as saying Henry Tillman showed he could beat Tyson.

Dujan Johnson and San Hyu Kim were top 140 pounders at the time.

That and $4 will get you a latte at Starbucks. Obviously a weak division if THAT'S the best it could offer.

Cervantes might have been past his prime, but he was still a champ who had made 6 title defenses previously. Whether you think the division was weak or not, Pryor still dominated it and that's respectable imo.

Antonio Cervantes had 13 fights between losing to Benitez and Pryor. He picked up a vacant alphabet crown without having to fight an established champion to get it. Of his 13 opponents only Saul Mamby was a recognizable fighter and even he had 9 losses already on his record. All the rest of his opponents where no-names that he fought in either Venezuala or southeast Asia. This is hardly the record of a fighter that could still be considered a formidable opponent.

Poet

Since it's been brought up, here's Arguello's record in the 2 years preceding the Pryor fight.

1982-07-31 Kevin Rooney
1982-05-22 Andrew Ganigan
1982-02-13 James Busceme
1981-11-21 Roberto Elizondo
1981-10-03 Ray Mancini
1981-06-20 Jim Watt
1981-02-07 Robert Vasquez
1980-11-14 Jose Luis Ramirez
1980-08-09 Cornelius Boza Edwards
1980-04-27 Rolando Navarrete
1980-03-31 Gerald Hayes
1980-01-20 Ruben Castillo

How many world class fighters did Arguello beat during this period? The answer is: NONE! (No, Boom Boom Mancini was NOT a world class fighter: He was a world class fraud who got exposed when faced with real opponents)
Kevin Rooney? Real good trainer but NOT even a near-great fighter, sorry.

Poet

Since it's been brought up, here's Arguello's record in the 2 years preceding the Pryor fight.

1982-07-31 Kevin Rooney
1982-05-22 Andrew Ganigan
1982-02-13 James Busceme
1981-11-21 Roberto Elizondo
1981-10-03 Ray Mancini
1981-06-20 Jim Watt
1981-02-07 Robert Vasquez
1980-11-14 Jose Luis Ramirez
1980-08-09 Cornelius Boza Edwards
1980-04-27 Rolando Navarrete
1980-03-31 Gerald Hayes
1980-01-20 Ruben Castillo

How many world class fighters did Arguello beat during this period? The answer is: NONE! (No, Boom Boom Mancini was NOT a world class fighter: He was a world class fraud who got exposed when faced with real opponents)
Kevin Rooney? Real good trainer but NOT even a near-great fighter, sorry.

Poet

Ruben Castillo was undefeated. Ramirez stuck around for the next two years or so and KOd Edwin Rosario. Also Boom Boom Mancini was undefeated so Arguello deserves credit for taking his 0. Boom Boom wasn't a terrible fighter either.

Also

The point is he DIDN'T show it in the pros beating NO one in Tommy Hearns' class. Again, saying he showed he could beat Hearns is the SAME as saying Henry Tillman showed he could beat Tyson.


Just because he didn't have as strong as a resume as Tommy, I'd still say he's still one of the best resumes, he's one of the best fighters from the 80s.

Ruben Castillo was undefeated. Ramirez stuck around for the next two years or so and KOd Edwin Rosario. Also Boom Boom Mancini was undefeated so Arguello deserves credit for taking his 0..

Perceptions of a fighter's worth at a given moment is often inaccurate. It's only when you can look back at a fighters career can you determine how a fighter actually was. Ruben Castillo may have been undefeated at the time we can now look back and tell he wasn't all that and a bag of chips. There have been plenty of fighters who had good records to start who were quickly exposed when forced to fight world class opponents. Remember Peter McNeely was undefeated going into his fight with Tyson. How much credit does Tyson deserve for taking McNeely's 0?



Boom Boom wasn't a terrible fighter either.

Not terrible, but not a world class fighter either. See the Arturo Gatti story: Popular crowd pleasure, dominates second tier opposition, then gets crushed every time he stepped in the ring with a world class fighter.

Poet

Since it's been brought up, here's Arguello's record in the 2 years preceding the Pryor fight.

1982-07-31 Kevin Rooney
1982-05-22 Andrew Ganigan
1982-02-13 James Busceme
1981-11-21 Roberto Elizondo
1981-10-03 Ray Mancini
1981-06-20 Jim Watt
1981-02-07 Robert Vasquez
1980-11-14 Jose Luis Ramirez
1980-08-09 Cornelius Boza Edwards
1980-04-27 Rolando Navarrete
1980-03-31 Gerald Hayes
1980-01-20 Ruben Castillo

How many world class fighters did Arguello beat during this period? The answer is: NONE! (No, Boom Boom Mancini was NOT a world class fighter: He was a world class fraud who got exposed when faced with real opponents)
Kevin Rooney? Real good trainer but NOT even a near-great fighter, sorry.

Poet

WOW, you have alot to say. Ever boxed yourself???????? I highly dout it, your just a typical armchair supporter, who just call's fighters.

Maybe you should of or have tryed it to realize just how hard the game is, instead of just sitting on ya fat ass and typin crap, at least fighters have the balls to get in and have ago.

You don't have the right to call any boxer!

To many posters have to much to say about fighters!

WOW, you have alot to say. Ever boxed yourself???????? I highly dout it, your just a typical armchair supporter, who just call's fighters.

Maybe you should of or have tryed it to realize just how hard the game is, instead of just sitting on ya fat ass and typin crap, at least fighters have the balls to get in and have ago.

You don't have the right to call any boxer!

Well, Gee, by THAT standard no one has any right to criticise a quarterback for throwing an interception. No one has any right to criticise the 30 million dollar a year steroid user for striking out with the game on the line. Come to think of it, no one has a right to criticise some Senator for taking bribes, since, after all, those people haven't held a public office.

You need to seriously get real, drink a tall glass of shut-the-****-up, and resist the urge to post until such time as the Good Lord in his mercy grants you some intelligence.

Poet

Well, Gee, by THAT standard no one has any right to criticise a quarterback for throwing an interception. No one has any right to criticise the 30 million dollar a year steroid user for striking out with the game on the line. Come to think of it, no one has a right to criticise some Senator for taking bribes, since, after all, those people haven't held a public office.

You need to seriously get real, drink a tall glass of shut-the-****-up, and resist the urge to post until such time as the Good Lord in his mercy grants you some intelligence.

Poet

By the way have you boxed?

you didn't answer my question???

you didn't answer my question???

No, I brought into question the very RELIVENCE of your question!

Poet

So you havent boxed then, typical. So next time before calling fighters like Pryor. Maybe you should go to a boxing gym and see how hard it really is, and then we can call you about how bad you are.

No one is criticizing Pryor personally.

I'm sure all of us think he is a great fighter but we are discussing facts here.

This thread is about whether Ray Leonard ducked Aaron Pryor, not about whether Pryor worked hard in the boxing gym or not. No one is questioning that.

I do not see your point.

No one is criticizing Pryor personally.

I'm sure all of us think he is a great fighter but we are discussing facts here.

This thread is about whether Ray Leonard ducked Aaron Pryor, not about whether Pryor worked hard in the boxing gym or not. No one is questioning that.

I do not see your point.

How are you dissussing facts, when some people aren't even rating him in the same breath as Benitez?? And there are also people who don't rate him.

????????????????????????

How are you dissussing facts, when some people aren't even rating him in the same breath as Benitez?? And there are also people who don't rate him.

????????????????????????

That's only an opinion, not an insult.

Besides this thread is not about how highly Pryor rates in the imaginary ATG, P4P or whatever list, it's about whether Leonard ducked him or not.

How are you dissussing facts, when some people aren't even rating him in the same breath as Benitez?? And there are also people who don't rate him.

????????????????????????

Seems to me you're dissing Benitez: A fighter who worked just as hard if not harder in the gym as Pryor, who suffered just as many if not more cuts and bruises while plying his trade as Pryor, and who accomplished FAR more in his career while fighting MUCH tougher opposition than Pryor. Game, set, and match.

Poet

Seems to me you're dissing Benitez: A fighter who worked just as hard if not harder in the gym as Pryor, who suffered just as many if not more cuts and bruises while plying his trade as Pryor, and who accomplished FAR more in his career while fighting MUCH tougher opposition than Pryor. Game, set, and match.

Poet

OMG, you must not know anything about boxing. You say Benitez is a fighter who just worked as hard as Pryor. Benitez was known for under training, and hardly training for fights this is fact.Everyone knows this!

His dad even come out in a old ring and was saying in the pre fight for Leonard, my son will lose, and by doing this he was hoping Benitez would get motivated to train. It didn't work

Stop talking crap, and wrting stuff that ain't true. Go and learn some boxing, history.

OMG, you must not know anything about boxing. You say Benitez is a fighter who just worked as hard as Pryor. Benitez was known for under training, and hardly training for fights this is fact.Everyone knows this!

His dad even come out in a old ring and was saying in the pre fight for Leonard, my son will lose, and by doing this he was hoping Benitez would get motivated to train. It didn't work

Stop talking crap, and wrting stuff that ain't true. Go and learn some boxing, history.

And remind me how hard Pryor was training while he was snorting his nose candy? I also noticed how you skipped right over the FACT that Benitez accomplished more and fought FAR better fighters in his career than Pryor. If you can't see THAT than you have more eyesight problems than Pryor does (probably due to excessive masturbation no doubt).

Poet

And remind me how hard Pryor was training while he was snorting his nose candy? I also noticed how you skipped right over the FACT that Benitez accomplished more and fought FAR better fighters in his career than Pryor. If you can't see THAT than you have more eyesight problems than Pryor does (probably due to excessive masturbation no doubt).

Poet

What you forgot to mention was, Pryor was not doing drugs in his prime, and would train like a animal. Even when Benitez was in his prime he would hardley train.

I'am talking about prime, you skidmark, key board warrior!

What you forgot to mention was, Pryor was not doing drugs in his prime, and would train like a animal. Even when Benitez was in his prime he would hardley train.

I'am talking about prime, you skidmark, key board warrior!

Oh let me see. Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Cervantes when he was still good. How many of those did Pryor fight? Oh, that's right: None! The closest he got was Cervantes when Antonio was on his way out the door and Arguello when he was doing the same. Yeah, made his name beating a past it Featherweight. How dem eyes doing btw?

Poet

Oh let me see. Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Cervantes when he was still good. How many of those did Pryor fight? Oh, that's right: None! The closest he got was Cervantes when Antonio was on his way out the door and Arguello when he was doing the same. Yeah, made his name beating a past it Featherweight. How dem eyes doing btw?

Poet

Skidmark, you think you're just a little know it all, when the ring magazine and bert sugar done a list of the greatest fighters Pryor was higher than Benitez on both, so i'am not the only one who agree's that Pyor was better. The experts think so to!

Skidmark, you think you're just a little know it all, when the ring magazine and bert sugar done a list of the greatest fighters Pryor was higher than Benitez on both, so i'am not the only one who agree's that Pyor was better. The experts think so to!

Oh yeah, Bert Sugar's word is just GOLD in these parts! Most posters here think Sugar is full of more **** than a manure farm so go on dropping HIS name and see how far you get. While I respect Ring Magazine, as it has already been pointed out by others in this thread, most of their lists get looked at with raised eyebrows.

Poet

Oh yeah, Bert Sugar's word is just GOLD in these parts! Most posters here think Sugar is full of more **** than a manure farm so go on dropping HIS name and see how far you get. While I respect Ring Magazine, as it has already been pointed out by others in this thread, most of their lists get looked at with raised eyebrows.

Poet

I think Bert knows alot more about boxing than you, well saying that i think many people know more about boxing than you!

I think Bert knows alot more about boxing than you, well saying that i think many people know more about boxing than you!

But Bert Sugar has never boxed, so according to you his opinion is worthless, no?

But Bert Sugar has never boxed, so according to you his opinion is worthless, no?

I've heard he done a bit, and Bert is a hall of famer, and knows what he is talking about!

You don't give Pryor enough credit as a fighter. I corrected you a couple of months back when you said he wasn't in the league of Hears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManchine
Pryor was not on the level of Hearns and Leonard in my opinion. He's smaller too.

Hmmmm, very interesting that you claim Pryor wasn't on level of Leonard or Hearns.

Maybe he didn't achieve as much as they did in terms of legacy, but when they were all in their prime i think Pryor was on the level of both fighters . But what people forget is Pryor was never defeated in his prime.

Was the number #1 lighweight contender but the was avoided so moved up to the Lw division, were he stopped hall of famer Antonio Cervantes in 4 for the WBA title, and would go on to make 8 title defecnes and in those defences stopped the great Alexis Arguello x2 and then would go on to win the IBF title and make a defence.

In my mind he was also avoided my Ray Lenoard, people even say Ray moved up a weight class to avoided Pryor in the amature's. And also he would never accept the challage of Pryor.

It just such a shame that drugs got hold of Aaron Pryor, because i belive The Hawk could of been up there with the likes of Leanord, Armsrotng, Greb, Robinson etc if drugs had not got hold of him.

He also beat Thomas Hearns in the Golden Glove final(Amature), and i think he could of beat Tommy in his prime in the pro ranks.

Your avater shows a Ring Magzine cover, the same Ring Magzine that done a list The 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years in 2003 - in which they ranked Aaron Pryor number #35 and Thomas Hearns number #67. 32 Places, so Ring also think Pryor had a better legacy.

So to say Pryor was not on the level of Hearns and Leonard in his prime is a pretty silly comment.

i think that ranking for hearns is bizzare

he should be way higher than that

I think Bert knows alot more about boxing than you, well saying that i think many people know more about boxing than you!

Bert Sugar refused to recognize Ali's greatness until the early 90s. While he may know more factoids about boxing than I do his judgment is a minimum questionable and at worse outragiously moronic.

Poet

Bert Sugar refused to recognize Ali's greatness until the early 90s. While he may know more factoids about boxing than I do his judgment is a minimum questionable and at worse outragiously moronic.

Poet

Who are you to call anyone, skidmark. You and your little education, your just a 40 year old who done nothing with his life, and has to talk about other boxers, because he can't talk about himslef.

And call legends, because you could never will be one.

TYPICAL KEYBOARD WARRIOR!

Who are you to call anyone, skidmark. You and your little education, your just a 40 year old who done nothing with his life, and has to talk about other boxers, because he can't talk about himslef.

And call legends, because you could never will be one.

TYPICAL KEYBOARD WARRIOR!

And who are YOU? A snot-nosed punk kid who thinks he's going to be a fighter? Who have neither the education OR life-experience to say anything to anyone.

People talk about fighters all the time. It's their right as the consumer. Consumer's are the boss. That means boxing fans (the consumer) are the boss and fighters are the employees. The moment boxing fans are no longer interested in boxing is the moment fighters NO LONGER HAVE A JOB and either go on unemployment or back to shoveling **** in Louisiana. This is the same for ALL athletes: When people stop caring enough to watch them their livelyhood is at an end. Period, end of story.

Poet

lewis vs bowe or don kings shameless actions to prevent lennox facing his best fighters (ie tyson & holyfield) although lewis soundly beat both of them later in their careers(despite a blatent robbery in lewis/holyfield 1, & some terrible refereeing in lewis/tyson)
the fact that the wbc seems to be the most "respected" governing body is a sad indicament on the state of this great sport!
don kings "relationship" with jose sulaiman along with lewis`s refusal to sign exclusivley with king has given the critics & haters debatable "reasons" to question lewis`s place in history as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time!

obviously im a lewis fan! but the point im trying to make (apart from bigging up lewis!) is that boxing politics suck dick!

And who are YOU? A snot-nosed punk kid who thinks he's going to be a fighter? Who have neither the education OR life-experience to say anything to anyone.

People talk about fighters all the time. It's their right as the consumer. Consumer's are the boss. That means boxing fans (the consumer) are the boss and fighters are the employees. The moment boxing fans are no longer interested in boxing is the moment fighters NO LONGER HAVE A JOB and either go on unemployment or back to shoveling **** in Louisiana. This is the same for ALL athletes: When people stop caring enough to watch them their livelyhood is at an end. Period, end of story.

Poet

Boxing dosen't need skidmarks like you, who just think they know everthing with there little posh education, and type big words behind keyboard andd call legends like Pryor.

You should just keep your mouth shut, you wannabe, and enjoy fighters like Pyor. But then again then you probaly think why cound't i be a boxer and be a legend? BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO HEART OR BALLS AND ARE TO SCARED!

Disgrace!

Boxing dosen't need skidmarks like you, who just think they know everthing with there little posh education, and type big words behind keyboard andd call legends like Pryor.

You should just keep your mouth shut, you wannabe, and enjoy fighters like Pyor. But then again then you probaly think why cound't i be a boxer and be a legend? BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO HEART OR BALLS AND ARE TO SCARED!

Disgrace!

You talk an aweful lot about skidmarks. Are you trying to tell us something about the state of your drawers?

You're English STILL sucks! I know you're a dropout but Jesus ****ing Christ learn ENGLISH!!!

BTW, REAL men use their brains to make a living; troglodyte sub-human animals make do using brawn for a pittance.

Poet

You talk an aweful lot about skidmarks. Are you trying to tell us something about the state of your drawers?

You're English STILL sucks! I know you're a dropout but Jesus ****ing Christ learn ENGLISH!!!

BTW, REAL men use their brains to make a living; troglodyte sub-human animals make do using brawn for a pittance.

Poet

Real Men use their brain to make a living. REAL MEN GET IN THE RING AND FIGHT, UNLIKE SOME.

Like i said before, ****house, Look at all the old time great boxers, who didn't have brains they seemed to do ok, and went on to become Legends.

YOU WILL NEVER BE A LEGEND, OR BE REMEMBERED AS NOTHING IN LIFE, JUST ANOTHER PERSON, WHO ALSO HAD NO HEART, AND NO BALLS!

Real Men use their brain to make a living. REAL MEN GET IN THE RING AND FIGHT, UNLIKE SOME.

Wrong! Neither do they fight duels, or murder each other on street. Civilized society demands better behavior than that.

Like i said before, ****house, Look at all the old time great boxers, who didn't have brains they seemed to do ok, and went on to become Legends.

They also died penniless you dumb phuck!

Poet

[QUOTE=poet682006;4788841]Wrong! Neither do they fight duels, or murder each other on street. Civilized society demands better behavior than that.

I met in a boxing ring you idiot! not on the street!


They also died penniless you dumb phuck!

Not always, Did Larry Holmes or George Foreman? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[QUOTE=poet682006;4788841]Wrong! Neither do they fight duels, or murder each other on street. Civilized society demands better behavior than that.

I met in a boxing ring you idiot! not on the street!


They also died penniless you dumb phuck!

Not always, Did Larry Holmes or George Foreman? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

As I pointed out before, Holmes has the intelligence YOU lack and George is no slouch either. You, sir, are no Larry Holmes or George Foreman; neither IN the ring.....or OUT of it.

Poet

Wrong! Neither do they fight duels, or murder each other on street. Civilized society demands better behavior than that.



They also died penniless you dumb phuck!

Poet

[QUOTE=clay123;4788875]

As I pointed out before, Holmes has the intelligence YOU lack and George is no slouch either. You, sir, are no Larry Holmes or George Foreman; neither IN the ring.....or OUT of it.

Poet

You know what i know why you have never achieved that legend status in life, because you have no heart or balls, but you were to scared to be a somebody in your prime.

Like you just said to me then you will never be Foreman or Holmes, i know i won't because i'am gonna be better than both. And you proably think i'am crazy, but i know it will come true becuase i want it so bad. And i know it will happen.

Probaly when i'am world champion, you will still be sitting here, about 50 years of age, still calling fighters and still talking about them. because you have to talk about them, because you have never achieved nothing legendary in life and you are just another average person. Who can't talk about himslef, and has no HEART OR BALLS!

SHAME!

[QUOTE=poet682006;4788906]

You know what i know why you have never achieved that legend status in life, because you have no heart or balls, but you were to scared to be a somebody in your prime.

Like you just said to me then you will never be Foreman or Holmes, i know i won't because i'am gonna be better than both. And you proably think i'am crazy, but i know it will come true becuase i want it so bad. And i know it will happen.

Probaly when i'am world champion, you will still be sitting here, about 50 years of age, still calling fighters and still talking about them. because you have to talk about them, because you have never achieved nothing legendary in life and you are just another average person. Who can't talk about himslef, and has no HEART OR BALLS!

SHAME!

:haha: That's just priceless! I don't need to say anything he buries himself :rofl:

Poet

[QUOTE=clay123;4788944]

:haha: That's just priceless! I don't need to say anything he buries himself :rofl:

Poet

I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, A 40 YEAR OLD WHO'S DONE NOTHING WITH HIS LIFE, AND HAS THE CHEEK TO LAUGH AT OTHER PEOPLE!

SAD!