Yes, this is another thread about Bernard Hopkins facing an old time heavyweight great since these topics seem to be ever so popular. This is one match-up that I've been thinking about for a while and seems somewhat reasonable.

The fight is held at the old cruiserweight limit of 190 lbs. Who wins?

For people who are not familiar with Jersey Joe,

here's some footage:

<div><object width="480" height="381"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k7s0M7icSv49Z6LZD6&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k7s0M7icSv49Z6LZD6&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="381" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6t5v8_jersey-joe-walcott_sport">Jersey Joe Walcott</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheGreatA">TheGreatA</a></i></div>

Hopkins' comments:

"I'm cut from the cloth of the old Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Henry Armstrong tradition. Those are people I look up to."

Could Hopkins have outboxed one of his idols?

If this particular match-up doesn't interest you then how about Bernard Hopkins vs Ezzard Charles? James Toney vs Jersey Joe Walcott? James Toney vs Ezzard Charles? James Toney vs Archie Moore?

“I developed my style by watching tapes of old fighters. I watched Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott constantly. I learned a lot from watching these guys and studying. Some of it just comes naturally."
-James Toney

Yes, this is another thread about Bernard Hopkins facing an old time heavyweight great since these topics seem to be ever so popular. This is one match-up that I've been thinking about for a while and seems somewhat reasonable.

The fight is held at the old cruiserweight limit of 190 lbs. Who wins?

For people who are not familiar with Jersey Joe,

here's some footage:

<div><object width="480" height="381"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k7s0M7icSv49Z6LZD6&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k7s0M7icSv49Z6LZD6&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="381" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6t5v8_jersey-joe-walcott_sport">Jersey Joe Walcott</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheGreatA">TheGreatA</a></i></div>

Hopkins' comments:

"I'm cut from the cloth of the old Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Henry Armstrong tradition. Those are people I look up to."

Could Hopkins have outboxed one of his idols?

If this particular match-up doesn't interest you then how about Bernard Hopkins vs Ezzard Charles? James Toney vs Jersey Joe Walcott? James Toney vs Ezzard Charles? James Toney vs Archie Moore?

“I developed my style by watching tapes of old fighters. I watched Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott constantly. I learned a lot from watching these guys and studying. Some of it just comes naturally."
-James Toney

damn he was timing that right hand.

Jersey Joe

Interesting match up. Size probably wouldn't be a huge factor but power would, I assume physical and punching would be a considerable advantage for Walcott with his experience with strongmen like Louis and Marciano. This would be important considering how much both fighters liked to clinch and score with big counters. Hopkins at light heavy isn't that much faster or busier either and than there's Walcott's jab and crafty footwork to worry about. I think Hopkins makes it ugly, gets a few good counters, and survives but Walcott takes a decision. I don't think Hopkins can pull an Ezzard Charles who carried tremendous speed and power as he moved up; dominating top heavies for years.

damn he was timing that right hand.

Walcott was like that. Joe Louis once wrote that when Walcott dropped his left (a cardinal sin Louis knew a LOT about) it wasn't a mistake: It was a feint to sucker his opponent into throwing the right at which point Walcott would bring the roof down with a right of his own. Walcott knew every trick of the trade and his timing was near perfect.

Poet

Walcott was like that. Joe Louis once wrote that when Walcott dropped his left (a cardinal sin Louis knew a LOT about) it wasn't a mistake: It was a feint to sucker his opponent into throwing the right at which point Walcott would bring the roof down with a right of his own. Walcott knew every trick of the trade and his timing was near perfect.

Poet

Walcott was a beast, I have him taking Bhop out in the 14th rd (decision for Walcott if 12 rds)

Walcott has an edge is just about any compartment, Hopkins makes it competitive, but whan can he do against someone just as smart who is probably faster and hits way harder than he does. I mean as sharp as Hopkins is, he is not knocking down cruiserweights with his counters.

In general on the matchups. I want to throw Jones in the mix, and I want to make a general consideration.

Consider the 3 names from the past
Walcott, Moore, Charles

And the 3 from the almost present
Hopkins, Toney, Jones

Well this is a case where I would not hesitate to pick all 3 oldtimers against the 3 modern guys.

Why? Because the 3 names of today are 'flawed', in terms of fulfilling their potential.
Hopkins peak was past his physical peak.
Toney always lacked discipline.
Jones never needed to perfect his craft like the 3 oldtimers did. (and he is probably physically the smallest of all 6 people)

Now look at Walcott, Moore and Charles competition. Do you think they could have afforded to be lazy or not take care of knowing what to do if they met someone just as fast? Do you think they ever faced the problem of being "green" after age 25 or so? I doubt it

I dont consider Hopkins a big lightheavy let alone a cruiser, so size would matter big time in this match-up IMO. And that would be decisive. Maybe the great boxing brain of Hopkins could make it interesting for a few rounds as he might me able to rough Walcott up and land a few sneaky rights.

Still I see the highly skilled and crafty Walcott taking a decision regardless of the fight being 12 or 15 rounds.

Machine do you Box, or have ever boxed?

Machine do you Box, or have ever boxed?

Who gives a **** ye of 5 posts. You might want to get some CIVIL posts under you belt before you start giving **** to long time posters.

By the way, you're probably an alt of juliocesa(r)chavez: A troll in this forum who CLAIMS to be a boxer and has been banned many times.

Poet

Who gives a **** ye of 5 posts. You might want to get some CIVIL posts under you belt before you start giving **** to long time posters.

By the way, you're probably an alt of juliocesa(r)chavez: A troll in this forum who CLAIMS to be a boxer and has been banned many times.

Poet

Getting on the defensive???? I asked ''Machine'' not you. I've got better things to do, than sit here all day and post about what boxers are doing 24/7 and how well they are doing, because i want to be there one day unlike some.

i want to be there one day unlike some.

That is something you will NEVER accomplish: Because you're too ****ing stupid to make it. Not to mention you're probably gay. You have a better shot at a career in the Village People than you do as a fighter :rofl:

Poet

That is something you will NEVER accomplish: Because you're too ****ing stupid to make it. Not to mention you're probably gay. You have a better shot at a career in the Village People than you do as a fighter :rofl:

Poet

Oh yes i will, and when i have made it, you will still probaly be posting here and will have done nothing in life except talk about other people.

You just carry on calling legends, who have done something in there life. I bet you would soil you pants if they were behind you!!!! And would soon stop talking!

Note: I rank a prime Walcott quite high head-to-head.
I can't see Walcott losing this fight. Walcott's weaknesses (questionable chin and overconfidence being them perhaps) won't be much of a factor in this fight. Hopkins doesn't have the power to get Walcott out of there and will be unable to hit him often for accumulation. Walcott can get ****y and not have to worry much about getting hit such as against Louis. Hes larger, hits harder, probably faster, and also very skilled and intelligent with the stamina to go the full 12/15 rounds. Walcott probably stops him somewhere in the fight or at least wins a Unanimous Decision.
I also see Charles and Moore being successful in their match ups as well.

Jersey Joe was a bag full of tricks full of all sorts. He'd drop B-Hop in the early rounds with a thunderous counter right with the ref stopping the fight in the 9th. Walcott's shuffle would confuse the hell out of Hopkins who'd find it hard to land clean, hard combinations on Walcott. No disrespect to Hopkins, but he would be out of his depth.

Walcott was also superb against the ropes twisting and turning his body to avoid punishment then countering. Jersey Joe weighed in around 195lbs and Bernard isn't the biggest Light Heavy going round. Don't forget that Bernard backed out of fighting James Toney at Cruiserweight in 2003. Hopkins also has confessed that he wouldn't even consider fighting Klitchko, Sam Peter and the like at Heavyweight.

With Walcott campaigning as a Heavyweight and been in there with some of the Greatest Heavyweights of all time like Charles, Marciano and Louis. Hopkins probably wouldn't finish the fight standing on his feet.

Oh yes i will, and when i have made it, you will still probaly be posting here and will have done nothing in life except talk about other people.

You just carry on calling legends, who have done something in there life. I bet you would soil you pants if they were behind you!!!! And would soon stop talking!

Oh no you won't. You have perpetual loser and future welfare recipient written all over you. I notice you didn't deny being queer. Shocker that. Actually I'll be the one laughing at you pathetic ass when you take a first round KO in your AMATUER debut.

Poet

Oh no you won't. You have perpetual loser and future welfare recipient written all over you. I notice you didn't deny being queer. Shocker that. Actually I'll be the one laughing at you pathetic ass when you take a first round KO in your AMATUER debut.

Poet

Your just a typical key board warrior, who don't nothing with his life and has to talk about other people to make himslef happy. Your just a skidmark, who's achieved nothing! iI feel sorry for you!

Your just a typical key board warrior, who don't nothing with his life and has to talk about other people to make himslef happy. Your just a skidmark, who's achieved nothing! iI feel sorry for you!

Well let me see. I have a college degree (something YOU'LL never get), I had an incredibly sucessfull marriage (something you'll never have on account of you being queer), and I've managed to make a reasonably comfortable living without having to work with my hands (better get used to manual labor: It's all you have the brains for). I do THIS for ****s and giggles and the fact that I love boxing. Unlike YOU I've never had to hope on success as a dumb jock to get me out of the hood (hope which in YOUR case will never be realized).

Poet

Well let me see. I have a college degree (something YOU'LL never get), I had an incredibly sucessfull marriage (something you'll never have on account of you being queer), and I've managed to make a reasonably comfortable living without having to work with my hands (better get used to manual labor: It's all you have the brains for). I do THIS for ****s and giggles and the fact that I love boxing. Unlike YOU I've never had to hope on success as a dumb jock to get me out of the hood (hope which in YOUR case will never be realized).

Poet

Just as i thought you never boxed in your life, just a skidmark, who calls legends something who will never be, behind a keyboard.

You think you're great with your little education, you weren't cut out to be a boxer. you just talk about boxing on your PC, becuase you haven't got enough balls to go to a boxing gym and fight like a man and never will!

Just as i thought you never boxed in your life, just a skidmark, who calls legends something who will never be, behind a keyboard.

You think you're great with your little education, you weren't cut out to be a boxer. you just talk about boxing on your PC, becuase you haven't got enough balls to go to a boxing gym and fight like a man and never will!

Just as I thought: You've never held a job that actually involved working with your brain. You're a troglodyte who has a future of minimum wage manual labor jobs ahead of you followed by joining the welfare rolls when you prove incompetant even at those.

You can belittle education all you want but the truth is you better get practicing puckering up because people like YOU end up working for people like me: You'll be grovelling and kissing the ass "The Boss" who for all intents and purposes will be just like me.

As for balls, what would you know of them? Your's haven't dropped yet afterall! You're a loud-mouthed punk kid who has yet to hold a job in the real world. BTW, you command of the English language reeks. Probably from your lack of education and intelligence.

PS. Every post you make convinces me you are nothing but the new alt of rafael_benitez aka juliocesa(r)chavez (sic). What happend? Get another ID banned did you?

Poet

Just as I thought: You've never held a job that actually involved working with your brain. You're a troglodyte who has a future of minimum wage manual labor jobs ahead of you followed by joining the welfare rolls when you prove incompetant even at those.

You can belittle education all you want but the truth is you better get practicing puckering up because people like YOU end up working for people like me: You'll be grovelling and kissing the ass "The Boss" who for all intents and purposes will be just like me.

As for balls, what would you know of them? Your's haven't dropped yet afterall! You're a loud-mouthed punk kid who has yet to hold a job in the real world. BTW, you command of the English language reeks. Probably from your lack of education and intelligence.

PS. Every post you make convinces me you are nothing but the new alt of rafael_benitez aka juliocesa(r)chavez (sic). What happend? Get another ID banned did you?

Poet

Look at you, bringing your little posh education into it, and using your big words you f*****G geek.

Did Sonny Liston have a education, did Dwight Qawi, did Larry Holmes have a education no! You go read a book with your little palymates, you skidmark.

And type behind your little pc. You were never cut out to be a real man, you have no balls or heart to lace the gloves up, leave that to the real men.

You just sit there and watch it, and make sure when you are watching a boxing match. Make sure you wear a nappy, just incase it gets a little to much for you, and you imagine yourself in there and the thought of it makes you soil your pants. Skidmark wannabe!

Look at you, bringing your little posh education into it, and using your big words you f*****G geek.

Did Sonny Liston have a education, did Dwight Qawi, did Larry Holmes have a education no! You go read a book with your little palymates, you skidmark.

And type behind your little pc. You were never cut out to be a real man, you have no balls or heart to lace the gloves up, leave that to the real men.

You just sit there and watch it, and make sure when you are watching a boxing match. Make sure you wear a nappy, just incase it gets a little to much for you, and you imagine yourself in there and the thought of it makes you soil your pants. Skidmark wannabe!

Oh aren't we defensive about our lack of education and intelligence! Just confirms what I already knew about you: Minimum wage-manual laborer on a fast track to leeching off society. Sonny Liston was DEAD at relatively young age so if that's what you aspire to then be my guest! Larry Holmes had the brains YOU never will and educated himself to become a sharp business man: Something you'll never be able to do!

Remember: Real men make real incomes. Losers work with their hands and collect welfare checks. You have no idea whether I have ever "laced them up" or not. Suffice it to say I was taught to box as a teen and have sparred before. When I was younger and still had the reflexes I could hook off the jab: Skill you're probably too incompitent to pull off. So tell me: Have you dropped out of High School yet? Or is it Reform School you're in? You see, people like YOU are too dumb to finish school which is why they collect welfare checks and never get out of the ghetto.

Poet

Oh aren't we defensive about our lack of education and intelligence! Just confirms what I already knew about you: Minimum wage-manual laborer on a fast track to leeching off society. Sonny Liston was DEAD at relatively young age so if that's what you aspire to then be my guest! Larry Holmes had the brains YOU never will and educated himself to become a sharp business man: Something you'll never be able to do!

Remember: Real men make real incomes. Losers work with their hands and collect welfare checks. You have no idea whether I have ever "laced them up" or not. Suffice it to say I was taught to box as a teen and have sparred before. When I was younger and still had the reflexes I could hook off the jab: Skill you're probably too incompitent to pull off. So tell me: Have you dropped out of High School yet? Or is it Reform School you're in? You see, people like YOU are too dumb to finish school which is why they collect welfare checks and never get out of the ghetto.

Poet

Oh so you were taught to box, and sparred, shame you never had the balls to actually get in there and do it, that just shows me even more you have no heart or balls.

And by the way ****house, you don't have to be a nerd to pull skill off, Floyd mayweather dropped out of school, and his skills seem to be ok.

See, you don't understand boxing, because you've never been in a ring, because you HAD NO HEART OR BALLS AND WAS NOT MAN ENOUGH TO DO IT.

Your just a typical arm chair supporter, and i laugh at people like you, because you would love to be a legend, but you can't because your just a little 40 year old geak, wannabe, skidmark , who can only talk about boxing behind a keyboard and call legends like Pryor.

Oh so you were taught to box, and sparred, shame you never had the balls to actually get in there and do it, that just shows me even more you have no heart or balls.

And by the way ****house, you don't have to be a nerd to pull skill off, Floyd mayweather dropped out of school, and his skills seem to be ok.

See, you don't understand boxing, because you've never been in a ring, because you HAD NO HEART OR BALLS AND WAS NOT MAN ENOUGH TO DO IT.

Your just a typical arm chair supporter, and i laugh at people like you, because you would love to be a legend, but you can't because your just a little 40 year old geak, wannabe, skidmark , who can only talk about boxing behind a keyboard and call legends like Pryor.

Oh, you mean my LOT of education? Yeah, you're obviously a drop-out bitter about being born too stupid to be anything in this world. Obviously you're too dumb to figure out that educated people make money and ignorant people stay poor. I'll take my education and the monetary renumeration that comes with it over your caveman outlook on life any day!
Humanity, as rule, long ago figured out that brains not brawn was the key to a better life. Better learn your lines well because you'll be saying them to someone just like me: "yes boss, anything you say boss, can I suck on your anus some more boss, ca I do another **** job for you for minimum wage boss?" Then when you **** that up too you can wait in the welfare lines for your pittance before going back to your ghetto home to beat your gay lover because you couldn't beat anyone in the ring.

Poet

The stylistic link between Walcott and Toney is evident immediately, especially in that right-hand counter. Toney developed it a bit further though, his defensive movement while performing the shoulder roll is a bit more thorough.

The stylistic link between Walcott and Toney is evident immediately, especially in that right-hand counter. Toney developed it a bit further though, his defensive movement while performing the shoulder roll is a bit more thorough.

That's the only reason Toney is still banging w/ the heavyweights..pure skill.

That's the only reason Toney is still banging w/ the heavyweights..pure skill.

Exactly! I don't like Toney, I'm certainly no fan; but I have to give the guy credit: He's honed his skills to the point where he can beat guys much bigger than himself and at an age when he should be retired.

Poet

That's the only reason Toney is still banging w/ the heavyweights..pure skill.

very true

and thats why hes my favourite fighter of all time

haha oh and by the way im enjoying that argument between poet and clay123...good stuff lol although i think poet is winning so far, hes really ripping into clay lol

Jersey Joe had a great counter right hand (mostly showcased against Louis who was always open for the punch) but the left hook/uppercut he KO'd Ezzard Charles with is still my favorite:

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He pulled it off so effortlessly, as if he had trained and prepared for it.

The payoff of over 20 years of work with many ups and downs.

haha oh and by the way im enjoying that argument between poet and clay123...good stuff lol although i think poet is winning so far, hes really ripping into clay lol

Yea its a pretty brutal war, If clay would stop going on how he's a future ATG maybe he wouldn't look so stupid.

Oh, you mean my LOT of education? Yeah, you're obviously a drop-out bitter about being born too stupid to be anything in this world. Obviously you're too dumb to figure out that educated people make money and ignorant people stay poor. I'll take my education and the monetary renumeration that comes with it over your caveman outlook on life any day!
Humanity, as rule, long ago figured out that brains not brawn was the key to a better life. Better learn your lines well because you'll be saying them to someone just like me: "yes boss, anything you say boss, can I suck on your anus some more boss, ca I do another **** job for you for minimum wage boss?" Then when you **** that up too you can wait in the welfare lines for your pittance before going back to your ghetto home to beat your gay lover because you couldn't beat anyone in the ring.

Poet

Lisen, you wannabe 40 year old skidmark, i've already done alot in my life. You say i have no education, who gives a f****, did Holmes, Mayweather, Bear, Qawi and all the other all time great boxing legends have this big Education? NO!

Because us boxers, we don't need education, as we get in the ring and battle like real warriors. You are a little geek, who thinks education is great and you can speak down to people.

It just a shame, you weren't a real man and cound't grow a set of balls and get in the ring and fight, instead of sitting behind a keyboard, talking about legends, you're a disgrace, who's done nothing in life.

Make sure you don't **** your pants, wathcing the boxing 2morrow night, make sure you have a nappy on, because as i said before the thought of you ever boxing would make you soil your pants.

You Disgrace.

Lisen, you wannabe 40 year old skidmark, i've already done alot in my life. You say i have no education, who gives a f****, did Holmes, Mayweather, Bear, Qawi and all the other all time great boxing legends have this big Education? NO!

Because us boxers, we don't need education, as we get in the ring and battle like real warriors. You are a little geek, who thinks education is great and you can speak down to people.

It just a shame, you weren't a real man and cound't grow a set of balls and get in the ring and fight, instead of sitting behind a keyboard, talking about legends, you're a disgrace, who's done nothing in life.

Make sure you don't **** your pants, wathcing the boxing 2morrow night, make sure you have a nappy on, because as i said before the thought of you ever boxing would make you soil your pants.

You Disgrace.

:haha: Omfg :rofl: You're a warrior in your own mind! As I said before, Holmes educated himself: He has the intelligence YOU lack! Boxers don't need edcation? Yeah, that's why they and other athletes are destitute and unemployed within five years of their career being over! OMFG! The ignorance of this Nimrod is priceless! I couldn't make up someone this dumb if I tried!

Done nothing in life? Hmmm. Made a decent living and stayed off the welfare rolls? That's what a REAL man does, not sponge of the social welfare system and ridicule the REAL men who, unlike yourself, have jobs and work for a living.

Poet

:haha: Omfg :rofl: You're a warrior in your own mind! As I said before, Holmes educated himself: He has the intelligence YOU lack! Boxers don't need edcation? Yeah, that's why they and other athletes are destitute and unemployed within five years of their career being over! OMFG! The ignorance of this Nimrod is priceless! I couldn't make up someone this dumb if I tried!

Done nothing in life? Hmmm. Made a decent living and stayed off the welfare rolls? That's what a REAL man does, not sponge of the social welfare system and ridicule the REAL men who, unlike yourself, have jobs and work for a living.

Poet

You disgrace, i'am very intelligent. but was i was trying to say was that you don't need this big education, that probaly your big money family has provied you, you ****ing spoilt brat.

Face it you have no balls what so ever, and you think because your not on welfare, you've made it in life.

Look at you, you're 40 years of age and post on a forum, about other boxers, because you can't speak about yourself, because YOU NEVER HAD ENOUGH BALLS OR HEART TO GET IN THE RING!

But you have to cheek, to call fighters like Pyor, a real warrior and he had something you will never everrrrrrrrrrr have HEART AND BALLS!

So, you just carry on with posting behind your little keyboard, and make sure you have your nappy on while wathching, just in case you **** your pants watching boxing!

You disgracefull, wannabe!

You disgrace, i'am very intelligent. but was i was trying to say was that you don't need this big education, that probaly your big money family has provied you, you ****ing spoilt brat.

Face it you have no balls what so ever, and you think because your not on welfare, you've made it in life.

Look at you, you're 40 years of age and post on a forum, about other boxers, because you can't speak about yourself, because YOU NEVER HAD ENOUGH BALLS OR HEART TO GET IN THE RING!

But you have to cheek, to call fighters like Pyor, a real warrior and he had something you will never everrrrrrrrrrr have HEART AND BALLS!

So, you just carry on with posting behind your little keyboard, and make sure you have your nappy on while wathching, just in case you **** your pants watching boxing!

You disgracefull, wannabe!

Wrong! I grew up poor as dirt and decided early on I wasn't going to stay that way. You, on the other hand, can CLAIM intelligence but your posts prove the opposite.

You know what you remind me of? The poor smuck who has to join the Army because no one else will hire you and the Army discovers your so dumb that they stick out in front of the column to detect enemy minefields.

Poet

Wrong! I grew up poor as dirt and decided early on I wasn't going to stay that way. You, on the other hand, can CLAIM intelligence but your posts prove the opposite.

You know what you remind me of? The poor smuck who has to join the Army because no one else will hire you and the Army discovers your so dumb that they stick out in front of the column to detect enemy minefields.

Poet

I read before you call fighters like WLAD ''****'' how dare you, at Wlad, has done something in a boxing ring, you on the other hand are just a 40 year old keyboard loser, who in his younger days was to scared to get in a boxing, and the thought of getting in a boxing ring now makes you **** your pants.

You just watch and enjoy, but don't call fighters, like Wlad and Pyor. Shame they weren't behind you, but you would proably worm your way out of it with your posh words, because you haven't got the balls to stand up and fight back.

NEVER HAVE NEVER WILL!

I read before you call fighters like WLAD ''****'' how dare you, at Wlad, has done something in a boxing ring, you on the other hand are just a 40 year old keyboard loser, who in his younger days was to scared to get in a boxing, and the thought of getting in a boxing ring now makes you **** your pants.

You just watch and enjoy, but don't call fighters, like Wlad and Pyor. Shame they weren't behind you, but you would proably worm your way out of it with your posh words, because you haven't got the balls to stand up and fight back.

NEVER HAVE NEVER WILL!

I call Wlad "****" because he sucks. Period. My Grandmother could blow on him and shatter those glass wiskers of his.

You make claims about my courage of which you know NOTHING about. I can say flat out that there is NO man walking the face of this Earth that I fear. I only fear God, as a human being is only capable of killing my physical body not my soul. I couldn't care less about the mere physical, so try again Junior.

Poet

I call Wlad "****" because he sucks. Period. My Grandmother could blow on him and shatter those glass wiskers of his.

You make claims about my courage of which you know NOTHING about. I can say flat out that there is NO man walking the face of this Earth that I fear. I only fear God, as a human being is only capable of killing my physical body not my soul. I couldn't care less about the mere physical, so try again Junior.

Poet

You say your Gradmother could KO WLAD, well considering you have so much to say and have so little respect for fighters.

WHY DIDN'T YOU BOX????????? So don't call fighters who get in there, WLAD IN THE NUMBER #1 HEAVYWEIGHT, I BET IF YOU WOULD OF BOXED WOULD OF BEEN ****, AS YOU PROBALY WOULD HAVE **** YOUR PANTS BEFORE FIGH TIME!

You say your Gradmother could KO WLAD, well considering you have so much to say and have so little respect for fighters.

WHY DIDN'T YOU BOX????????? So don't call fighters who get in there, WLAD IN THE NUMBER #1 HEAVYWEIGHT, I BET IF YOU WOULD OF BOXED WOULD OF BEEN ****, AS YOU PROBALY WOULD HAVE **** YOUR PANTS BEFORE FIGH TIME!

You still don't get it? I didn't box because I didn't HAVE to! People make a living getting punched in the face because they have no other avenue's open to them: Case in point, your lack of intelligence and subsequent lack of education leaves you no other recourse but to grunt and labor for your supper. You'll never hold a real job. You'll never be more than a modern caveman bending his back at brute labor for a few breadcrumbs. Sucks to be you!

Poet

You still don't get it? I didn't box because I didn't HAVE to! People make a living getting punched in the face because they have no other avenue's open to them: Case in point, your lack of intelligence and subsequent lack of education leaves you no other recourse but to grunt and labor for your supper. You'll never hold a real job. You'll never be more than a modern caveman bending his back at brute labor for a few breadcrumbs. Sucks to be you!

Poet

You say you didn't box because you didn't have to, well why do you love talking about them and espeically love calling them.

The Klitscko's didn't have to box, Barrea didn't have to box they were all clever people who could get good jobs, but they boxed because THEY LOVED THE GAME AND had HEART AND BALLS SOMETHING YOU WILL NEVER HAVE.

SO IF YOU THINK YOUR BETTER THAN BEING A BOXER, DON'T WATCH IT OR TALK ABOUT IT.

AND YOU HAVE THE CHEEK TO CRITISIZE BOXERS, WHEN YOU ARE A 110 PERCENT, COWARD! WHO NEVER LACED A GLOVED UP AND HAS NO HEART OR BALLS!

YOU MAKE ME LAUGH, LOSER!

You say you didn't box because you didn't have to, well why do you love talking about them and espeically love calling them.

The Klitscko's didn't have to box, Barrea didn't have to box they were all clever people who could get good jobs, but they boxed because THEY LOVED THE GAME AND had HEART AND BALLS SOMETHING YOU WILL NEVER HAVE.

SO IF YOU THINK YOUR BETTER THAN BEING A BOXER, DON'T WATCH IT OR TALK ABOUT IT.

AND YOU HAVE THE CHEEK TO CRITISIZE BOXERS, WHEN YOU ARE A 110 PERCENT, COWARD! WHO NEVER LACED A GLOVED UP AND HAS NO HEART OR BALLS!

YOU MAKE ME LAUGH, LOSER!

:haha: ****er got himself banned :rofl: Really, this isn't his first ban: I'd lay odds that was rafael_benitez aka juliocesa(r)chavez using yet another alt. He makes the names, then gets himself banned because he can't have a civil discussion with ANYONE.

Poet

B-Hop, being knocked down on the way

You know, the thing that troubles me about all these Hopkins Vs. Heavyweight matchups is people seem to forget that Bernard is a well past it old man at 175. He's fought all of 4 fights since moving up from Middleweight beating an uninterested Antonio Tarver, a one-dimensional Kelly Pavlik, and a Winky Wright nearly as old as he is. The one in-prime complete fighter he fought was Joe Calzaghe.....and he lost to him. There isn't anything that Hopkins has done at 175 that should make anyone think he's a match for an ATG at Light-Heavyweight let alone an ATG Heavyweight. Come on guys, fantasy matchups are great but they have to be realistic or they're nothing but jokes.

Poet

You know, the thing that troubles me about all these Hopkins Vs. Heavyweight matchups is people seem to forget that Bernard is a well past it old man at 175. He's fought all of 4 fights since moving up from Middleweight beating an uninterested Antonio Tarver, a one-dimensional Kelly Pavlik, and a Winky Wright nearly as old as he is. The one in-prime complete fighter he fought was Joe Calzaghe.....and he lost to him. There isn't anything that Hopkins has done at 175 that should make anyone think he's a match for an ATG at Light-Heavyweight let alone an ATG Heavyweight. Come on guys, fantasy matchups are great but they have to be realistic or they're nothing but jokes.

Poet
Calzaghe was in his mid thirties and well past his prime so Hopkins has done very little at 175.

Calzaghe was in his mid thirties and well past his prime so Hopkins has done very little at 175.

Good point! Don't get me wrong, of the active fighters out there Hopkins is my favorite. I just don't have any illusions as to his current abilities.

Poet

I would favor Walcott based on size and more effective punches( when he landed). I think it will a boring fight, i can't see Joe having the kind of success with timing Hopkins the way he did against Charles( who is not defensively good as Hopkins) but i do see him winning the rounds with aggression, because Hopkins has not shown great offense against opponents who has a lot of dimensions now add to the equation that Jersey Joe is bigger WITH those dimensions and strong enough to out muscle Hopkins and out fight him on the inside. Outside of Hopkins not being active enough against Taylor, he didn't have the kind of success he had at out muscling him the way he did against smaller opponents and that threw him out of his game even more and Taylor is no Walcott. I think Walcott would win a tight unanimous decision. Pound for pound would be a different story. Both the same size, Hopkins out smarts him.

I wouldn't say Walcott had much success timing Charles who soundly defeated him in two fights and was ahead on points before getting stopped in their third fight though honestly neither fighter appeared to be landing much outside of some bodywork in the clinches. Charles is a superior ring technician defensively and offensively to Hopkins and ranks with the elite P4P in that department having convincingly outboxed prime Moore three times, Walcott, Joey Maxim and a still fairly capable Joe Louis. Charles probably has one of the strongest resumes in history considering how frequently he fought the highest level of competition at various weight classes. He was more aggressive than Hopkins but when he was in cautious mode he could be just as elusive if not more so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je9fncDgI-s

All time great KO artist Satterfield unable to find Charles with his infamous blistering two fisted attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVJPgXWk7RM&feature=related

Charles's frustrating defense and spoiling in full effect against former conqueror Jimmy Bivins; who also had a knockout win over Moore.

As Charles defeated Jersey Joe in two fights, Walcott also beat Charles in two fights and if you take a look back at their fourth fight you'll actually see Joe out boxing Charles and out fighting him for a lot of portions. Its also hard to agree that Charles was as good defensively as Hopkins but offensively you could have a point, Charles took more chances. In their first fight ( i believe it was) i actually seen Charles rocked on a few occasions even though i had him thoroughly out boxing Walcott in that fight. Walcott's age also has to be considered in all of those fights and the fact that his prime was earlier in his career.

As Charles defeated Jersey Joe in two fights, Walcott also beat Charles in two fights and if you take a look back at their fourth fight you'll actually see Joe out boxing Charles and out fighting him for a lot of portions. Its also hard to agree that Charles was as good defensively as Hopkins but offensively you could have a point, Charles took more chances. In their first fight ( i believe it was) i actually seen Charles rocked on a few occasions even though i had him thoroughly out boxing Walcott in that fight. Walcott's age also has to be considered in all of those fights and the fact that his prime was earlier in his career.

They technically split wins but they really weren't as evenly matched as your suggesting. Walcott was down on all the cards before his superb knockout and their 4th fight was a controversial decision. In contrast, he lost the first two fights by a sizable margin. Charles was a very frustrating match up for Walcott because he couldn't jab him at all and he was too quick, dangerous, and slick to effectively counter once he got him inside. Walcott as always was a frustrating fighter for anybody but Charles mostly got the better of him.

As for Walcott being past his prime I really don't know what to say. When do you believe Walcott was in his prime? As a starving teenager or a dock worker who happened to box at night? He didn't start full time boxing with a proper trainer until 1944 and it still took him several years to develop into a Championship contender; not meeting Joe Louis until he was 33-34. He faced Charles for the first time the following year later in just his next fight for the vacant title. He was at the peak of his abilities in these fights and only got more dangerous as he picked up more and more tricks until his retirement in 53; like the sneaky left he used to finally beat Charles and drop Marciano.

And defensively, older Hopkins used very similar crowding, clinching, and spoiling tactics to that of Charles. There is also significant difference in hand speed and Charles acrobatic slipping and counterpunching is a huge part of his defense.