Ridiculous as it may sound, a 174 lb Billy Conn outboxed a prime 27 year old, 48-1 Louis over 12 rounds (before getting ****y in the 13th.) It's not unfathomable that Hopkins could do the same. Thoughts?

Louis always had problems with slick fast boxers, it's not impossible Hopkins would win! If he didn't taste the brown bombers wicked power to flush, to many times that is..

If all aspects were on the same playing field, i think hopkins would come out victorious. But i think Louis would be able to knock him down or at least hurt him. They didn't call him the Brown Bomber for nuttin.

people should't get upset when they see these threads, I have always thought that fighters in lower divisions possessed more skills than heavyweights. Many of the smaller heavyweights may well have been beatable by more technically sound fighters from lower divisions.

Roy Jones was a smaller heavyweight, he would do quite well against guys like Louis I would imagine, given he doesn't get tagged.

Let's not forget that Ali was getting out boxed by bob foster until hit got hit also. Hopkins probably fairs so well in these match ups because I can't see him getting hit.

Lately on the history section Bernard has really been gettin matched with some ATG's, been matched against Archie Moore, Rocky Marciano and now Joe Louis.

Prime Louis is better in every conceivable way. He would take Hop's head off, if it was still intact after facing Marciano.

This is garbage . This is insulting , Joe Louis is perhaps the greatest heavyweight in history, and your matching him up with B Hop? Answer me this, How many men has Bhop fought that where 190pounds or more? well Rocky and Louis fought MANY, and beat them.

So yes Rocky Was a small heavyweight.
But that makes him even more impressive since most of the men he fought out weighed him, out reached him, and where taller, and he still had the record of 49 - 0.

This is garbage . This is insulting , Joe Louis is perhaps the greatest heavyweight in history, and your matching him up with B Hop? Answer me this, How many men has Bhop fought that where 190pounds or more? well Rocky and Louis fought MANY, and beat them.

So yes Rocky Was a small heavyweight.
But that makes him even more impressive since most of the men he fought out weighed him, out reached him, and where taller, and he still had the record of 49 - 0.

how is it insulting? Louis had trouble with much smaller men to, men Hopkins size. Hopkins is a very good fighter so it's not out of the question.

I think you just don't want to believe it. Rocky had trouble with guys Hopkins size, why does Hopkins have no chance when in some accounts he is better than them.

how is it insulting? Louis had trouble with much smaller men to, men Hopkins size. Hopkins is a very good fighter so it's not out of the question.

I think you just don't want to believe it. Rocky had trouble with guys Hopkins size, why does Hopkins have no chance when in some accounts he is better than them.


And i think you just dont want to beleave that Rocky And Joe would cream B - Hop, You can say all you want "Rocky had trouble with small men to" but the FACT is that Rocky BEAT them all, and that includes Smaller men AND BIGGER men,

49 - 0 FACT

To beat Rocky you need to Box and Move, B - Hop is a boxer/puncher. and at some point in time he will stand toe to toe with Rocky and then it will be goodnight for Hopkins.



and it is a damn joke, Hopkins being a great fighter in his division is one thing, but putting him up against 2 fighters that rank up in the TOP 10 Heavyweights of all time is a whole other story. Step back into reality,


Rocky Beats B - Hop by Death

Louis Beats B - Hop by creaming

End of story


B-hop is a great fighter, But dont insult the the BEST of the HWs with this garbage.

And i think you just dont want to beleave that Rocky And Joe would cream B - Hop, You can say all you want "Rocky had trouble with small men to" but the FACT is that Rocky BEAT them all, and that includes Smaller men AND BIGGER men,

49 - 0 FACT

To beat Rocky you need to Box and Move, B - Hop is a boxer/puncher. and at some point in time he will stand toe to toe with Rocky and then it will be goodnight for Hopkins.



and it is a damn joke, Hopkins being a great fighter in his division is one thing, but putting him up against 2 fighters that rank up in the TOP 10 Heavyweights of all time is a whole other story. Step back into reality,


Rocky Beats B - Hop by Death

Louis Beats B - Hop by creaming

End of story


B-hop is a great fighter, But dont insult the the BEST of the HWs with this garbage.


your lack of intellect scares me. You don't even picture how a fight would turn out, you just see 49-0 and "great heavyweight" and automatically think they would win.

they might have, I'm not ruling it out. On paper however Hopkins has an excellent chance to beat both of them. Especially Rocky.

b-Hop a boxer puncher? where did you come up with that? because he can punch? he's a technical/defensive fighter, waits for opportunity and maximizes on them.

Rocky is 1 dimensional
Rocky is not bigger than B-Hop.

Louis is bigger than B-Hop
Louis had trouble with smaller men in his career, him just magically walking in there and hitting one of the most defensive fighters of all time and knocking him out is pretty far fetched. If he was 215-220 lbs at 5% body fat, I'd say he could just wail away and wear him down. These guys aren't that big.

I think Louis would hit him at some point though and end the fight, but B-Hop winning is not out of the question.

B-Hop beats Rocky though IMO, Rocky is way to one dimensional. Hopkins is older at LHW sure, but he has still shown he can nullify a younger, high output fighter.

your lack of intellect scares me. You don't even picture how a fight would turn out, you just see 49-0 and "great heavyweight" and automatically think they would win.

they might have, I'm not ruling it out. On paper however Hopkins has an excellent chance to beat both of them. Especially Rocky.

b-Hop a boxer puncher? where did you come up with that? because he can punch? he's a technical/defensive fighter, waits for opportunity and maximizes on them.

Rocky is 1 dimensional
Rocky is not bigger than B-Hop.

Louis is bigger than B-Hop
Louis had trouble with smaller men in his career, him just magically walking in there and hitting one of the most defensive fighters of all time and knocking him out is pretty far fetched. If he was 215-220 lbs at 5% body fat, I'd say he could just wail away and wear him down. These guys aren't that big.

I think Louis would hit him at some point though and end the fight, but B-Hop winning is not out of the question.

B-Hop beats Rocky though IMO, Rocky is way to one dimensional. Hopkins is older at LHW sure, but he has still shown he can nullify a younger, high output fighter.




hahahaha




























Give Yourself An Uppercut





Oh and some ideas for the next thread!

Maybe B-Hop Vs George Foreman

Or Maybe B-Hop Vs Joe Frazier!

ohh and Hopkins Vs Ali!



And once B-Hop Beats them all, We should make a Top Ten Greatest Heavyweights of all time and Put B-Hop at No1!! lol


This is more a laugh then an arguement, Lol


I never insulted you, and you go ahead and insult me "your lack of intellect scares me" Please Grow up, Hopkins is great but not good enough to beat Rocky or Louis, So since this thread has turned into personal insults i will not argue with you, think what you like, but like i said, This is a joke, The End

hahahaha




























Give Yourself An Uppercut





Oh and some ideas for the next thread!

Maybe B-Hop Vs George Foreman

Or Maybe B-Hop Vs Joe Frazier!

ohh and Hopkins Vs Ali!



And once B-Hop Beats them all, We should make a Top Ten Greatest Heavyweights of all time and Put B-Hop at No1!! lol


This is more a laugh then an arguement, Lol


I never insulted you, and you go ahead and insult me "your lack of intellect scares me" Please Grow up, Hopkins is great but not good enough to beat Rocky or Louis, So since this thread has turned into personal insults i will not argue with you, think what you like, but like i said, This is a joke, The End


ever seen Foster vs Ali, Foster was dominating untill Ali hit him with something big.

foreman is 220 lbs and he's a massively strong dude, you can give your self an uppcut for that one.

Frazier is 204 naturally, still to big.

oh, rocky is 186, he's about Jeff Lacy's size.

your just mad that I think B-Hop can beat Rocky.

ever seen Foster vs Ali, Foster was dominating untill Ali hit him with something big.

foreman is 220 lbs and he's a massively strong dude, you can give your self an uppcut for that one.

Frazier is 204 naturally, still to big.

oh, rocky is 186, he's about Jeff Lacy's size.

your just mad that I think B-Hop can beat Rocky.



hahaha im mad cos Rocky can be beaten by B-Hop? hahaha
Why would i be? Rocky is dead, he will always be 49 - 0 and fantasy fights is the nearest i will ever get to seeing Rocky Lose lol, He will always be undefeated no matter what you say , So there for i aint "Mad"


49 - 0 FOREVER

So get used to it, It aint going to change cos you "Think" so,

hahaha im mad cos Rocky can be beaten by B-Hop? hahaha
Why would i be? Rocky is dead, he will always be 49 - 0 and fantasy fights is the nearest i will ever get to seeing Rocky Lose lol, He will always be undefeated no matter what you say , So there for i aint "Mad"


49 - 0 FOREVER

So get used to it, It aint going to change cos you "Think" so,

stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me! tee heee

grow up

this forum is for discussing stuff like this, having the mentality that Rocky could never have lost pretty much shows how incompetent you are.

Oh yea, most people know he's dead, the Idea was "if" it had happened.

stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me! tee heee

grow up

this forum is for discussing stuff like this, having the mentality that Rocky could never have lost pretty much shows how incompetent you are.

Oh yea, most people know he's dead, the Idea was "if" it had happened.

i didnt say no one can beat him, Ali, Foreman,Lewis, Tyson would give him trouble, But B-Hop is a laugh,

Like i said 49 - 0 deal with it,

Hopkins by devastating KO

imo, Hopkins has the technique in which an opponents power is meaningless.

imo, Hopkins never trades punches Toe to Toe, only rarely which takes his opponenets off-guard.

imo, Against 1 Dimensional fighters, he has always come out one top.

Which is why i personally feel he'd take Marciano easily in a UD. Marciano would just be relentless throwing randomly and moving foward. Hopkins would simply tie him up and counter all the way.

Against Louis however, i personally feel Louis is leagues better than Marciano, and not as one-dimensional. I feel UD to Louis.

Louis did take on fighters B-Hops size but in IMO the old schoolers could usually take more punishment than the coddled boxers of this era (it was a much harder time in general). Boxing started out as two guys standing in front of each other in a small drawn square punching each other in the head over and over again. It evolved over time into a science and therefore during the earliest period, if you didn't have a seriously seriously hard head you didn't even think about becoming a boxer. Now by the 1930's Boxing was a science, but it was still not that far away from the boxing of old, and the average boxer of the era, i would argue, was more durable than the average modern boxer. I don't buy that B-Hop has phenomenal durability even by todays standards. This fight is too dangerous for him.

Louis did take on fighters B-Hops size but in IMO the old schoolers could usually take more punishment than the coddled boxers of this era (it was a much harder time in general). Boxing started out as two guys standing in front of each other in a small drawn square punching each other in the head over and over again. It evolved over time into a science and therefore during the earliest period, if you didn't have a seriously seriously hard head you didn't even think about becoming a boxer. Now by the 1930's Boxing was a science, but it was still not that far away from the boxing of old, and the average boxer of the era, i would argue, was more durable than the average modern boxer. I don't buy that B-Hop has phenomenal durability even by todays standards. This fight is too dangerous for him.

with that note however, if boxers back then were "tougher" fighters of today are generally faster and stronger "generally"

I personally don't buy it all, just one era was more based around being tough, the other is more scientific. I don't think there are any physical disadvantages other than what their training techniques are and skill.

And i think you just dont want to beleave that Rocky And Joe would cream B - Hop, You can say all you want "Rocky had trouble with small men to" but the FACT is that Rocky BEAT them all, and that includes Smaller men AND BIGGER men,

49 - 0 FACT

To beat Rocky you need to Box and Move, B - Hop is a boxer/puncher. and at some point in time he will stand toe to toe with Rocky and then it will be goodnight for Hopkins.



and it is a damn joke, Hopkins being a great fighter in his division is one thing, but putting him up against 2 fighters that rank up in the TOP 10 Heavyweights of all time is a whole other story. Step back into reality,


Rocky Beats B - Hop by Death

Louis Beats B - Hop by creaming

End of story


B-hop is a great fighter, But dont insult the the BEST of the HWs with this garbage.


I totally agree with you man; it's best not to post in threads like this too much, it will raise your blood pressure through the roof! LOL

All you can do is encourage people to review tapes of the old fighters and learn their histories, and learn something of the circumstances in which they lived and fought. Fighters today ARE coddled; even a warrier like B-Hop never had to endure the insane hardships Marciano (and particular Louis) just took for granted as they were climbing the ladder of success so long ago. Purses were tiny, racism was rampant, bouts were longer, there was no pulling out of a fight if a fledging fighter got'injured' outside of the ring, the fights themselves were rough and dirty, training conditions were horrible, and they were not so inclined to stop fights due to cuts and successive knockdowns and maimed faces

I totally agree with you man; it's best not to post in threads like this too much, it will raise your blood pressure through the roof! LOL

All you can do is encourage people to review tapes of the old fighters and learn their histories, and learn something of the circumstances in which they lived and fought. Fighters today ARE coddled; even a warrier like B-Hop never had to endure the insane hardships Marciano (and particular Louis) just took for granted as they were climbing the ladder of success so long ago. Purses were tiny, racism was rampant, bouts were longer, there was no pulling out of a fight if a fledging fighter got'injured' outside of the ring, the fights themselves were rough and dirty, training conditions were horrible, and they were not so inclined to stop fights due to cuts and successive knockdowns and maimed faces


this was actually a logical post.

I have watched a lot of the old tapes, not as much as posters like themanchine and poet, but enough.

This isn't a matter of what era who is fighting who in. Louis easily cracks most of the clowns at heavyweight these days, at least he actually comes in shape.

I'd pick Nard' to bust up a lot of todays heavyweights to and they are 250 lbs (fat) 6'4.

Look what a guy like Jones did to a typical heavyweight of today, completely took him to school.

ever seen Foster vs Ali, Foster was dominating untill Ali hit him with something big.

foreman is 220 lbs and he's a massively strong dude, you can give your self an uppcut for that one.

Frazier is 204 naturally, still to big.

oh, rocky is 186, he's about Jeff Lacy's size.

your just mad that I think B-Hop can beat Rocky.


He's mad because you stubbornly to refuse to look beyond Marciano's size. As if this was the be-all and end-all of what makes a great fighter! Like someone mentioned elsewhere, Rocky was a stocky dude and could have concievably fought at a much heavier weight; however he chose to enter the ring lean and mean because his punching power was unaffected and it gave him a terrific edge stamina-wise. Marciano knew better than anyone how limited he was in terms of height, reach, skill, and so on; why do you think he concentrated so fanatically on strength and endurance training?

And even you have to admit, his strategy worked beautifully.

And i think you just dont want to beleave that Rocky And Joe would cream B - Hop, You can say all you want "Rocky had trouble with small men to" but the FACT is that Rocky BEAT them all, and that includes Smaller men AND BIGGER men,

49 - 0 FACT

To beat Rocky you need to Box and Move, B - Hop is a boxer/puncher. and at some point in time he will stand toe to toe with Rocky and then it will be goodnight for Hopkins.



and it is a damn joke, Hopkins being a great fighter in his division is one thing, but putting him up against 2 fighters that rank up in the TOP 10 Heavyweights of all time is a whole other story. Step back into reality,


Rocky Beats B - Hop by Death

Louis Beats B - Hop by creaming

End of story


B-hop is a great fighter, But dont insult the the BEST of the HWs with this garbage.

ok well hopkins isnt a boxer puncher, hes a technical defensive fighter who analyses his opponents best weapon and takes it away from them, he would not go toe to toe with rocky, hes not retarded

his chin is exceptional as is his defence, he wouldnt get knocked out

you dont beat a pressure fighter by moving excessively, you will eventually get tired and get taken out, watch cotto-margarito for an example of that

you beat a pressure fighter by minimising your energy output, pivoting or moving just out of range, rolling off punches, clinching when you have to, potshotting and countering from all different ranges and angles...you do move, but only as much as you have to, eg: slipping just out of range of a punch, pivoting out just far enough to avoid their attack, clinching lots, moving back just far enough etc and by doing that you slow down the fight and take away their best asset- workrate.... and thats exactly what b-hop would do, beating rocky by a UD over 12 or 15

He's mad because you stubbornly to refuse to look beyond Marciano's size. As if this was the be-all and end-all of what makes a great fighter! Like someone mentioned elsewhere, Rocky was a stocky dude and could have concievably fought at a much heavier weight; however he chose to enter the ring lean and mean because his punching power was unaffected and it gave him a terrific edge stamina-wise. Marciano knew better than anyone how limited he was in terms of height, reach, skill, and so on; why do you think he concentrated so fanatically on strength and endurance training?

And even you have to admit, his strategy worked beautifully.

wait, I have given more reasons than just his size, I only state that to make sure people don't think Marciano will have a huge size advantage because b-Hop fought at middle.

I have frequently said Marciano was slow, lacked defense and fought sub-par competition. He is also very one dimensional.

when I mention size in this match up, it's to make a point that size doesn't matter. There have been many accounts when the smaller man has wooped the bigger man. Considering Hopkins and Rocky are the same size, it comes down to skills, and Hopkins has much, much more skill.

with that note however, if boxers back then were "tougher" fighters of today are generally faster and stronger "generally"


Agreed; "generally" speaking.

Ofcourse here speed would be the major issue rather than strength

wait, I have given more reasons than just his size, I only state that to make sure people don't think Marciano will have a huge size advantage because b-Hop fought at middle.

I have frequently said Marciano was slow, lacked defense and fought sub-par competition. He is also very one dimensional.

when I mention size in this match up, it's to make a point that size doesn't matter. There have been many accounts when the smaller man has wooped the bigger man. Considering Hopkins and Rocky are the same size, it comes down to skills, and Hopkins has much, much more skill.

OK, I understand the point you are trying to make, although I think Hopkin's skill would be easily nullified by The Rocks savagery and strength superiority, and I hardly consider Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott, Roland LaStarza, etc. 'subpar competition.'

I can see Hopkins beating Joe Louis. Louis had his ears boxed off by Jersey Joe Walcott in their first fight, and Walcott got robbed. Hopkins is a fighter very similar to Walcott (infact Walcott is one of his greatest inspirations), very cagey, defensive minded, amazing counterpuncher, and he employs a lot of the tactics that Walcott himself employed.

Joe would have to catch Hopkins with a bomb to win the fight, by my estimation. And that's very hard to envision, considering how flatfooted and slow Louis was. Couple that with the fact that Hopkins is rarely, if ever, caught cleanly. And on the rare occasions when he has been caught cleanly, Hopkins has proven capable of taking the leather in stride.

I'd favor Hopkins to beat Louis by UD.

OK, I understand the point you are trying to make, although I think Hopkin's skill would be easily nullified by The Rocks savagery and strength superiority, and I hardly consider Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott, Roland LaStarza, etc. 'subpar competition.'

they are sub par because they were all at the end of their Careers. If he fought them in their primes that would have been a different story.

I can see Hopkins beating Joe Louis. Louis had his ears boxed off by Jersey Joe Walcott in their first fight, and Walcott got robbed. Hopkins is a fighter very similar to Walcott (infact Walcott is one of his greatest inspirations), very cagey, defensive minded, amazing counterpuncher, and he employs a lot of the tactics that Walcott himself employed.

Joe would have to catch Hopkins with a bomb to win the fight, by my estimation. And that's very hard to envision, considering how flatfooted and slow Louis was. Couple that with the fact that Hopkins is rarely, if ever, caught cleanly. And on the rare occasions when he has been caught cleanly, Hopkins has proven capable of taking the leather in stride.

I'd favor Hopkins to beat Louis by UD.

The only snag is Walcott was about 40lbs north of Hopkins' peak weight.

Seriously, did I do a Rip van Winkle and sleep through Hopkins' glorious move up to heavyweight, in which he schooled the Klitschkos, Haye, Valuev, Povetkin etc, after which he reigned as undisputed heavyweight champ until the age of 50? That's the only explanation I can think of for all those who want to pit a career middleweight against all-time great heavyweights, and think he can win.

The Conn comparisons don't work either. Conn was undefeated as light-heavy champ and also beat several top heavyweight contenders prior to facing Louis. Considering Hopkins has never faced a heavyweight and his sole meaningful win at 175 was against a lacklustre Tarver, there really is no comparison.

As for the Conn-Louis fight, Louis took Conn lightly and drained himself to get to below 200lb, not wanting to be accused of being a bully beating on a little guy. Even so, it was never the boxing clinic that some claim - Louis swept the early rounds with his body attack, which paid dividends later - and given the way some talk about the fight, it's easy to forget that the end result was Conn lying on the canvas and out for the count. I also disagree that Conn only lost because he went for the KO. He fought the 13th the way he fought the rest, Louis just caught up with him.

If Calzaghe can turn Hopkins into a spoiling whiner, crawling around on the canvas after phantom low blows, I have little doubt what a dose of Louis' power would do to him. Louis may appear "flat footed", but he was very good at cutting down the ring, had fast hands, and an excellent boxer himself. He'd send Hopkins into orbit, which is where this match-up ought to be.

So Louis by KO.

As for the Conn-Louis fight, Louis took Conn lightly and drained himself to get to below 200lb, not wanting to be accused of being a bully beating on a little guy.

So Louis by KO.


Louis did not weigh 199 for that fight, its been documented mike jacobs made the weight seem a little more closer to make it seem like a more evenly matched fight. But I agree about louis KOing bernard, bernard might be able to sneak a few rounds but once louis got a solid shot on him itd be all over.

The only snag is Walcott was about 40lbs north of Hopkins' peak weight.

Seriously, did I do a Rip van Winkle and sleep through Hopkins' glorious move up to heavyweight, in which he schooled the Klitschkos, Haye, Valuev, Povetkin etc, after which he reigned as undisputed heavyweight champ until the age of 50? That's the only explanation I can think of for all those who want to pit a career middleweight against all-time great heavyweights, and think he can win.

The Conn comparisons don't work either. Conn was undefeated as light-heavy champ and also beat several top heavyweight contenders prior to facing Louis. Considering Hopkins has never faced a heavyweight and his sole meaningful win at 175 was against a lacklustre Tarver, there really is no comparison.

As for the Conn-Louis fight, Louis took Conn lightly and drained himself to get to below 200lb, not wanting to be accused of being a bully beating on a little guy. Even so, it was never the boxing clinic that some claim - Louis swept the early rounds with his body attack, which paid dividends later - and given the way some talk about the fight, it's easy to forget that the end result was Conn lying on the canvas and out for the count. I also disagree that Conn only lost because he went for the KO. He fought the 13th the way he fought the rest, Louis just caught up with him.

If Calzaghe can turn Hopkins into a spoiling whiner, crawling around on the canvas after phantom low blows, I have little doubt what a dose of Louis' power would do to him. Louis may appear "flat footed", but he was very good at cutting down the ring, had fast hands, and an excellent boxer himself. He'd send Hopkins into orbit, which is where this match-up ought to be.

So Louis by KO.

Louis is a small Heavyweight by today's standards. They're roughly the same height (Joe 6'2", Bernard 6'1"), roughly the same reach (Joe 76", Bernard 75"), and not that far apart in weight. Hopkins comes in on fight night at around 190 or close to 200lbs.

Physical attributes aside, Louis was a very flatfooted, basic fighter. Hopkins is a very elusive target who fights like Walcott, he likes to lay traps, create angles, slide the shoulders, and pop the right hand over the jab.

I'm not saying Louis couldn't KO Hopkins, Louis hit like a truck. But in order to KO Hopkins, he'd have to catch Hopkins flush on the chin, and that's a tall order for any fighter to fill. The great Joe Louis included.

Louis is a small Heavyweight by today's standards. They're roughly the same height (Joe 6'2", Bernard 6'1"), roughly the same reach (Joe 76", Bernard 75"), and not that far apart in weight. Hopkins comes in on fight night at around 190 or close to 200lbs.

Physical attributes aside, Louis was a very flatfooted, basic fighter. Hopkins is a very elusive target who fights like Walcott, he likes to lay traps, create angles, slide the shoulders, and pop the right hand over the jab.

I'm not saying Louis couldn't KO Hopkins, Louis hit like a truck. But in order to KO Hopkins, he'd have to catch Hopkins flush on the chin, and that's a tall order for any fighter to fill. The great Joe Louis included.

I have never heard of Hopkins coming to a fight close to 200 lbs.

I believe he was nearly 190 lbs against Calzaghe but came in at 180 against Pavlik and looked significantly better in that fight.

I have never heard of Hopkins coming to a fight close to 200 lbs.

I believe he was nearly 190 lbs against Calzaghe but came in at 180 against Pavlik and looked significantly better in that fight.

He was 190 against Joe, and 180 for the Pavlik fight.

Which one was it that he refused to re weigh in at? Tarver?

If Hopkins came in around 190, the difference in weight would only be about 15lbs. I think the advantage he would have in speed would help negate Louis' power advantage.

Louis only has 15 lbs on Hopkins. Everything else besides power he is on the lacking end in comparison.

Hopkins is the better boxer, better defense, better feet, handspeed and he is the master of cutting off his opponent's strengths. Louis is a very sharp puncher with lots of heart, it would be a good fight.

given how Louis walks in with his left down all the time, Hopkins would probably fire the right hand over the top and catch him over and over. Walcott did it, so could B-Hop.

Louis only has 15 lbs on Hopkins. Everything else besides power he is on the lacking end in comparison.

Hopkins is the better boxer, better defense, better feet, handspeed and he is the master of cutting off his opponent's strengths. Louis is a very sharp puncher with lots of heart, it would be a good fight.

given how Louis walks in with his left down all the time, Hopkins would probably fire the right hand over the top and catch him over and over. Walcott did it, so could B-Hop.

Are we talking prime Louis here against the B-Hop we've seen at 175? If so, Hopkins is a dead man. Bernard is not the better boxer, only slightly faster, but does have the better feet and defense. Unfortunetly for him sooner or later he's going to have to to either get trapped on the ropes or be forced to trade with Louis. When that time comes, its lights out. Louis isn't Tarver, and he certainly isn't powder puff punching Calzaghe. Both of who Billy Conn and Walcott were better than when Louis put them to sleep.

here's the thing. Hopkins greatest accomplishments have been over smaller boxers that he could bully...I got Joe in a DCN

Are we talking prime Louis here against the B-Hop we've seen at 175? If so, Hopkins is a dead man. Bernard is not the better boxer, only slightly faster, but does have the better feet and defense. Unfortunetly for him sooner or later he's going to have to to either get trapped on the ropes or be forced to trade with Louis. When that time comes, its lights out. Louis isn't Tarver, and he certainly isn't powder puff punching Calzaghe. Both of who Billy Conn and Walcott were better than when Louis put them to sleep.


couple questions with your assessment.

When has Hopkins ever been trapped on the ropes (and much less beaten down) Even against a much faster Calzaghe he was on the ropes for 2 seconds at best.

Also, when has Hopkins mindlessly traded punches, he's a punch and not be hit kind of guy.

Hopkins is definently the better boxer in my eyes, I honestly wonder who you are watching when you look at Louis and say he boxed better than Hopkins.

Everyone seems to think it's an insult to great heavyweights of old giving a LHW a shot at beating them, really it comes down to size - the LHW's of today have day before weigh in's, which usually means they come in at around Marciano and Louis' weight. Not that it matters, Jones Jr laid a beat down on one of the bums in todays HW division, and even he isn't as big as B-Hop.

so it comes down to skills, and Hopkins has more of it. Power, obviously goes to Louis, if he did manage to land (albeit to the body), then it could be game over for B-Hop, but i like Hopkins chances non-the less.

here's the thing. Hopkins greatest accomplishments have been over smaller boxers that he could bully...I got Joe in a DCN

Pavlik, Tarver...both bigger than him

Trinidad, the so called smaller boxer, actually weighed more than Hopkins. The best middleweights have often been welterweights, a la Hearns, SRL, Trinidad.

Louis is a small Heavyweight by today's standards. They're roughly the same height (Joe 6'2", Bernard 6'1"), roughly the same reach (Joe 76", Bernard 75"), and not that far apart in weight. Hopkins comes in on fight night at around 190 or close to 200lbs.

Physical attributes aside, Louis was a very flatfooted, basic fighter. Hopkins is a very elusive target who fights like Walcott, he likes to lay traps, create angles, slide the shoulders, and pop the right hand over the jab.

I'm not saying Louis couldn't KO Hopkins, Louis hit like a truck. But in order to KO Hopkins, he'd have to catch Hopkins flush on the chin, and that's a tall order for any fighter to fill. The great Joe Louis included.

Louis was not a "basic fighter". Sorry, but it's ignorant to suggest that he had no skills and essentially that someone like Hopkins would box his ears off all night. Louis was an exquisite boxer. And while citing the Walcott fight in the case for Hopkins, it's also worth bearing in mind that he, like Conn, finished the second fight out for the count. Both were a much bigger threat to Louis than Hopkins would be, with a track record of beating top heavyweights. Both were just as elusive as Hopkins, but Louis always caught up with them in the end.

Btw, I'd be interested which fights Hopkins weighed close to 200lb for. Even so, Hopkins might be able to bulk up to a higher weight, but that doesn't mean he belongs in a higher weight class. Louis was much the bigger man, and a far far better boxer than many give him credit for. I have no qualms at all in saying Hopkins would not be vertical by the final bell.

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couple questions with your assessment.

When has Hopkins ever been trapped on the ropes (and much less beaten down) Even against a much faster Calzaghe he was on the ropes for 2 seconds at best.

When has Hopkins fought a man as big, strong and skilled as Louis would be? At 40 plus years old, Hopkins would get bullied.

Also, when has Hopkins mindlessly traded punches, he's a punch and not be hit kind of guy.

Come on my man, all fighters have to trade punches to land them at some time during the fight.

Hopkins is definently the better boxer in my eyes, I honestly wonder who you are watching when you look at Louis and say he boxed better than Hopkins.

And what are you basing this on? Louis' technique was flawless and his punches were perfectly timed. Hopkins is a great, great fighter. I just don't think he's near as good as Joe.

Everyone seems to think it's an insult to great heavyweights of old giving a LHW a shot at beating them, really it comes down to size - the LHW's of today have day before weigh in's, which usually means they come in at around Marciano and Louis' weight. Not that it matters, Jones Jr laid a beat down on one of the bums in todays HW division, and even he isn't as big as B-Hop.

I don't think its an insult, only far fetched considering who they have beaten.

And please tell me you didn't just compare John Ruiz to Joe Louis!

so it comes down to skills, and Hopkins has more of it. Power, obviously goes to Louis, if he did manage to land (albeit to the body), then it could be game over for B-Hop, but i like Hopkins chances non-the less.

How do you decide Hop has more skills? Has he beaten a better caliber of opponent through out his career? No. Has he ever beat a heavywight? No. And at 42, 43 and 44 years old is this the best Hopkins we've seen? I doubt it.

opkins is a great fighter, he just doesn't match up here and there is no way to prove he could. On the other hand, its very easy to prove that Joe Louis not only matches up, but possesses huge advantages also.

Pavlik, Tarver...both bigger than him

Trinidad, the so called smaller boxer, actually weighed more than Hopkins. The best middleweights have often been welterweights, a la Hearns, SRL, Trinidad.

Hold the phone. Kelly Pavlik ........ who had previously had one fight above 160 and that was at 164 ...... is bigger than Bernard Hopkins, who was 190 for the Tarver fight and had fought at LHW for well over 2 years? Are you being serious?

Do you also think Paul Williams is bigger than Mike Tyson? Just curious.

Louis was not a "basic fighter". Sorry, but it's ignorant to suggest that he had no skills and essentially that someone like Hopkins would box his ears off all night. Louis was an exquisite boxer. And while citing the Walcott fight in the case for Hopkins, it's also worth bearing in mind that he, like Conn, finished the second fight out for the count. Both were a much bigger threat to Louis than Hopkins would be, with a track record of beating top heavyweights. Both were just as elusive as Hopkins, but Louis always caught up with them in the end.

Btw, I'd be interested which fights Hopkins weighed close to 200lb for. Even so, Hopkins might be able to bulk up to a higher weight, but that doesn't mean he belongs in a higher weight class. Louis was much the bigger man, and a far far better boxer than many give him credit for. I have no qualms at all in saying Hopkins would not be vertical by the final bell.

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I agree Louis boxing skills are underrated, he was very good textbook wise.

But you forgot to mention that Louis cound't catch up to Jersey Joe Walcott the first time, were in my eyes and many others Walcott was robbed blind.

I agree Louis boxing skills are underrated, he was very good textbook wise.

But you forgot to mention that Louis cound't catch up to Jersey Joe Walcott the first time, were in my eyes and many others Walcott was robbed blind.

Yes, but you forget that this is Louis at the end of his career and had only fought 5 or 6 times in the last 5 years. Walcott also had more pop on his punches than Bernard and beter footwork.

If we're going to do this match up, lets make it the best Hopkins at 175 (the Tarver fight) against the best Louis (Schmeling 1). Now.....does anybody really think Hopkins has a chance?

the brown bomber knocks da bum out lol....

How do you decide Hop has more skills? Has he beaten a better caliber of opponent through out his career? No. Has he ever beat a heavywight? No. And at 42, 43 and 44 years old is this the best Hopkins we've seen? I doubt it.

opkins is a great fighter, he just doesn't match up here and there is no way to prove he could. On the other hand, its very easy to prove that Joe Louis not only matches up, but possesses huge advantages also.


I wasn't comparing Ruiz to Louis. That's ludacris.

p4p, Hopkins has beat better oponents, or at least the equivalent. This is debatable though, I know.

Louis isn't a much larger man, he's got 15 lbs at best on Hopkins. You have a point that being 40+ Hopkins might not be able to keep him off for 12, but so far he has shown he can. He destroyed Pavlik, a younger pressure fighter. The Calzaghe fight was a close fight, but he's much faster than Louis and more aggressive, he can't punch worth **** though.

I'm just debating, don't hype up my posts like i'm some insane poster who thinks Hopkins would knock him out, l i'm just weighing my options. Seeing how Louis performed against other skilled but smaller boxers, it's not out of the question like you make it out to be.

Hold the phone. Kelly Pavlik ........ who had previously had one fight above 160 and that was at 164 ...... is bigger than Bernard Hopkins, who was 190 for the Tarver fight and had fought at LHW for well over 2 years? Are you being serious?

Do you also think Paul Williams is bigger than Mike Tyson? Just curious.

If you are going by weight, Felix Trinidad was "bigger" than Hopkins. But was he?

I wasn't comparing Ruiz to Louis. That's ludacris.

p4p, Hopkins has beat better oponents, or at least the equivalent. This is debatable though, I know.

Louis isn't a much larger man, he's got 15 lbs at best on Hopkins. You have a point that being 40+ Hopkins might not be able to keep him off for 12, but so far he has shown he can. He destroyed Pavlik, a younger pressure fighter. The Calzaghe fight was a close fight, but he's much faster than Louis and more aggressive, he can't punch worth **** though.

I'm just debating, don't hype up my posts like i'm some insane poster who thinks Hopkins would knock him out, l i'm just weighing my options. Seeing how Louis performed against other skilled but smaller boxers, it's not out of the question like you make it out to be.

Because I don't always agree with you doesn't mean I think you are "insane" or don't make some quality points. In fact, looking back at posts from just 6 months ago compared to now it seems you have educated yourself more and become more open minded about fighters from the past. as a fan of both boxing and its history I appreciate that.

As far as how Louis performed against other smaller fighters we know two things for sure. 1- He never lost to one in his prime. And 2-None of those guys were past 40 with only two fights at lightheavy against fighters no one will call all time in that division.

My whole argument is based on what Louis has done and against who. Your argument seems to be based on what you think Hopkins might do even though he's never fought extensively at 175 or been pushed by a guy as big, strong and skilled as Louis. Its all good though since neither of us will ever actually be able to prove beyond a resonable doubt who would actually win.

Because I don't always agree with you doesn't mean I think you are "insane" or don't make some quality points. In fact, looking back at posts from just 6 months ago compared to now it seems you have educated yourself more and become more open minded about fighters from the past. as a fan of both boxing and its history I appreciate that.

As far as how Louis performed against other smaller fighters we know two things for sure. 1- He never lost to one in his prime. And 2-None of those guys were past 40 with only two fights at lightheavy against fighters no one will call all time in that division.

My whole argument is based on what Louis has done and against who. Your argument seems to be based on what you think Hopkins might do even though he's never fought extensively at 175 or been pushed by a guy as big, strong and skilled as Louis. Its all good though since neither of us will ever actually be able to prove beyond a resonable doubt who would actually win.

The sarcastic remarks you make about the other Hopkins threads though are hinting a posters like my self.

obviously a guy like Liston is a different story. Liston is 215+ lbs, he's big - his arms are massive. Hopkins could not hold a guy like him off. We aren't talking about the same size and strength difference between guys like Rocky and Louis. In todays era they would be cruiser weights.

The sarcastic remarks you make about the other Hopkins threads though are hinting a posters like my self.

My sarcastic post was directed at nobody nor hinting towards you or anybody else. It is directed at the ridiculousness of saying he (Hopkins) can beat some of the greatest heavyweights all time, in their prime, while he is past 40 and 1-1 at lightheavy. If you btake that personaly Im sorry. But it doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

obviously a guy like Liston is a different story. Liston is 215+ lbs, he's big - his arms are massive. Hopkins could not hold a guy like him off. We aren't talking about the same size and strength difference between guys like Rocky and Louis. In todays era they would be cruiser weights.

Liston wasn't much bigger than Louis, was much slower, had much less an arsenal and wasn't nearly as accurate or talented. How is a guy like Liston a different story?

If you are going by weight, Felix Trinidad was "bigger" than Hopkins. But was he?

Who do you think is bigger, Pavlik or Taylor?

http://www.boxingpress.de/fotos/Pavlik_Taylor1.jpg

FYI Hopkins is bigger than Taylor. And Tito didn't weigh less than Hopkins, I'm not sure who told you that lie.

Who do you think is bigger, Pavlik or Taylor?

http://www.boxingpress.de/fotos/Pavlik_Taylor1.jpg

FYI Hopkins is bigger than Taylor. And Tito didn't weigh less than Hopkins, I'm not sure who told you that lie.

if i blur my eyes, Pavlik looks a bit bigger...he's taller and has a bigger bone structure, although he's skinnier.

when Hopkins and Taylor fought Hopkins looked much skinnier than Taylor, now they are about the same size.

and tito weighed more than Hopkins....isn't that what i said?

joe kills hopkins, and im a big hopkins fan...

obviously a guy like Liston is a different story. Liston is 215+ lbs, he's big - his arms are massive. Hopkins could not hold a guy like him off. We aren't talking about the same size and strength difference between guys like Rocky and Louis. In todays era they would be cruiser weights.

Liston wasn't much bigger than Louis, was much slower, had much less an arsenal and wasn't nearly as accurate or talented. How is a guy like Liston a different story?

Still waiting for an answer here. Anyone?

Yes, but you forget that this is Louis at the end of his career and had only fought 5 or 6 times in the last 5 years. Walcott also had more pop on his punches than Bernard and beter footwork.

If we're going to do this match up, lets make it the best Hopkins at 175 (the Tarver fight) against the best Louis (Schmeling 1). Now.....does anybody really think Hopkins has a chance?

Well if you want Louis at his peak, you've picked a bad fight (Schmeling 1)were he hardly even trained for that fight, and was mostly playing golf and sneaking out of camp.

And you say does ''Hopkins really have a chance'' well when Billy Conn fought Louis, he was 174, yes he was coming off good wins over heavyweight contenders, but i also belive Beranrd could beat some heavyweights, Conn like Hopkins was regarded as the best LHW in the world.

And like Hopkins, Conn had very clever footwork a great boxing brain, a cast iron chin. And both weren't huge punchers.

So when you compare Hopkins and Conn there are lots of similarities there, and Conn caused Louis enough problems and probaly would of won if he had not statred to trade, something which Bernard would be to clever not to do.

So even do i think a prime ''trained'' Joe Louis, would of probaly beat Bernard, i think he has a chance, as he has a good few similarites to Billy Conn, and has all the tools to cause Louis problem, Boxer/Mover, good boxing brain, good footwork, and great chin.

So to say he has no chance, is going a bit to far.

Well if you want Louis at his peak, you've picked a bad fight (Schmeling 1)were he hardly even trained for that fight, and was mostly playing golf and sneaking out of camp.

And you say does ''Hopkins really have a chance'' well when Billy Conn fought Louis, he was 174, yes he was coming off good wins over heavyweight contenders, but i also belive Beranrd could beat some heavyweights, Conn like Hopkins was regarded as the best LHW in the world.

And like Hopkins, Conn had very clever footwork a great boxing brain, a cast iron chin. And both weren't huge punchers.

So when you compare Hopkins and Conn there are lots of similarities there, and Conn caused Louis enough problems and probaly would of won if he had not statred to trade, something which Bernard would be to clever not to do.

So even do i think a prime ''trained'' Joe Louis, would of probaly beat Bernard, i think he has a chance, as he has a good few similarites to Billy Conn, and has all the tools to cause Louis problem, Boxer/Mover, good boxing brain, good footwork, and great chin.

So to say he has no chance, is going a bit to far.

I meant Schmelling 2. And Conn was proven operator at 175. Maybe by todays standards Hopkins is too. But not by the standards of yesteryear.

And by the way, its been well documented Louis coming in at the lowest possible weight so as to not look like a bully in this fight. Neithe Conn nor Hopkins would have anything to keep the Louis fom the second Schmeling fight of them.

I meant Schmelling 2. And Conn was proven operator at 175. Maybe by todays standards Hopkins is too. But not by the standards of yesteryear.

And by the way, its been well documented Louis coming in at the lowest possible weight so as to not look like a bully in this fight. Neithe Conn nor Hopkins would have anything to keep the Louis fom the second Schmeling fight of them.

The lowest possible weight he lost a pound and a half, the fight before Conn, he defeated Buddy Bear at 201 and weighed in for Conn at 199 and half. So it hasn't made a huge difference.

Louis always had struggles with boxer/movers etc Walcott in sparring(when he wasn't past his prime and was young and hunry) Walcott the first fight were Walcott was robbed, Charles, and Conn.

The lowest possible weight he lost a pound and a half, the fight before Conn, he defeated Buddy Bear at 201 and weighed in for Conn at 199 and half. So it hasn't made a huge difference.

Then what happened to Conn in th 2nd fight?

Louis always had struggles with boxer/movers etc Walcott in sparring(when he wasn't past his prime and was young and hunry) Walcott the first fight were Walcott was robbed, Charles, and Conn.

None of those fights were against Louis from the 2nd Schmlling fight, were they?

The lowest possible weight he lost a pound and a half, the fight before Conn, he defeated Buddy Bear at 201 and weighed in for Conn at 199 and half. So it hasn't made a huge difference.

Louis always had struggles with boxer/movers etc Walcott in sparring(when he wasn't past his prime and was young and hunry) Walcott the first fight were Walcott was robbed, Charles, and Conn.

The thing is, Hopkins isn't really a mover. He has boxing ability yes, but he isn't exactly fleet of foot the way Conn was. Bernard's type of boxing is all wrong against Louis.

I have to ask: What is this current kick about Hopkins in this forum? Especially matching him up against Heavyweights instead of his natural division Middleweight? Wouldn't it be more apropo to match him up against say Hagler or Robinson instead?

Poet

The thing is, Hopkins isn't really a mover. He has boxing ability yes, but he isn't exactly fleet of foot the way Conn was. Bernard's type of boxing is all wrong against Louis.

I have to ask: What is this current kick about Hopkins in this forum? Especially matching him up against Heavyweights instead of his natural division Middleweight? Wouldn't it be more apropo to match him up against say Hagler or Robinson instead?
Poet

Poet, you can't be serious. If Hopkins can take out both Klitschko's, Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield in the same night, how could mer mortals such as Robinson and Hagler stand a chance? Surely you jest!!

Poet, you can't be serious. If Hopkins can take out both Klitschko's, Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield in the same night, how could mer mortals such as Robinson and Hagler stand a chance? Surely you jest!!

LOL! I'm a fan of Hopkins and consider him a top-five ATG Middleweight but I also think I'm realistic: He is, afterall, a Middleweight not a Heavyweight and only fought at Light-Heavyweight after he was well past his prime. I think a Hagler Vs. Hopkins matchup is a terrific fight. A matchup featuring Hopkins against any ATG Heavyweight is a mismatch: Hopkins is neither fast enough afoot to out-box them or strong enough to out fight them.

Poet

The thing is, Hopkins isn't really a mover. He has boxing ability yes, but he isn't exactly fleet of foot the way Conn was. Bernard's type of boxing is all wrong against Louis.

I have to ask: What is this current kick about Hopkins in this forum? Especially matching him up against Heavyweights instead of his natural division Middleweight? Wouldn't it be more apropo to match him up against say Hagler or Robinson instead?

Poet

He's not a mover? isn't his game plan based around always moving and staying off the ropes? He doesn't dance or anything, but he's definitely not stationary, it's usually how he avoids pressure by turning his opponent?

@ JAB I didn't answer your question because it was opinion based and you simply disagreed with me, all I would be doing was repeating myself.

I DO think Liston was a lot bigger than Louis, if you don't, there is nothing I can do about it. Liston showed up to some fights 225+ and he wasn't even fat.

JAB I didn't answer your question because it was opinion based and you simply disagreed with me, all I would be doing was repeating myself.

I DO think Liston was a lot bigger than Louis, if you don't, there is nothing I can do about it. Liston showed up to some fights 225+ and he wasn't even fat.

The best Sonny Liston (when comparing fighters we should always look at the best versions) was between 1958 and 1962 and probably averaged between 212 and 215lbs. Really not that much bigger than Louis' 205-208 considering Louis was the much superior fighter, faster and hit as hard if not harder.

LOL! I'm a fan of Hopkins and consider him a top-five ATG Middleweight but I also think I'm realistic: He is, afterall, a Middleweight not a Heavyweight and only fought at Light-Heavyweight after he was well past his prime. I think a Hagler Vs. Hopkins matchup is a terrific fight. A matchup featuring Hopkins against any ATG Heavyweight is a mismatch: Hopkins is neither fast enough afoot to out-box them or strong enough to out fight them.

Poet

I am in full agreement my friend.

The best Sonny Liston (when comparing fighters we should always look at the best versions) was between 1958 and 1962 and probably averaged between 212 and 215lbs. Really not that much bigger than Louis' 205-208 considering Louis was the much superior fighter, faster and hit as hard if not harder.

Louis was about 200 in his prime, sometimes less. Liston's Prime is 215 on the dot.

Louis was about 200 in his prime, sometimes less. Liston's Prime is 215 on the dot.

When is his prime then? I would say from the Bethea fight in 58 till the first Patterson fight in 62, where he was staying active and taking guys apart. If you go by that time frame he average about 210 a fight, maybe a little more.

Louis prime would be from the second Schmelling fight to til Abe Simon in 42. average weight about 203, 204. Like I said, with the discrepency in skills, its really not that big a difference. So How does Hop get killed by Sonny and not Louis?

When is his prime then? I would say from the Bethea fight in 58 till the first Patterson fight in 62, where he was staying active and taking guys apart. If you go by that time frame he average about 210 a fight, maybe a little more.

Louis prime would be from the second Schmelling fight to til Abe Simon in 42. average weight about 203, 204. Like I said, with the discrepency in skills, its really not that big a difference. So How does Hop get killed by Sonny and not Louis?



thanks for the info, I always thought he came in at under 200.

didn't say that.. I said Sonny kill Hopkins, the Louis fight I was debating with you.

thanks for the info though.

So how do you figure sonny kills him, yet he would be competitive with Joe?

didn't say that.. I said Sonny kill Hopkins, the Louis fight I was debating with you.

thanks for the info though.

So how do you figure sonny kills him, yet he would be competitive with Joe?

well,

Louis and Hopkins are near Identical in size, that was my main reason. Seeing as he comes in at 200+ maybe I don't have an argument anymore.

Previously, thinking Louis came in at around 200, meant he has about 10 lbs on Hopkins, the reach and height was near Identical. That was my initial argument. In my personal opinion Hopkins is a more skilled fighter than Louis p4p wise, so if they were similar in size I would give Hopkins a good chance.

If Louis is as big as you say he is though, perhaps I am wrong.

well,

Louis and Hopkins are near Identical in size, that was my main reason. Seeing as he comes in at 200+ maybe I don't have an argument anymore.

Previously, thinking Louis came in at around 200, meant he has about 10 lbs on Hopkins, the reach and height was near Identical. That was my initial argument. In my personal opinion Hopkins is a more skilled fighter than Louis p4p wise, so if they were similar in size I would give Hopkins a good chance.

If Louis is as big as you say he is though, perhaps I am wrong.

Something else to consider is that Louis is training down to get to his best possible weight, Hopkins would be training up.

He's not a mover? isn't his game plan based around always moving and staying off the ropes? He doesn't dance or anything, but he's definitely not stationary, it's usually how he avoids pressure by turning his opponent?

@ JAB I didn't answer your question because it was opinion based and you simply disagreed with me, all I would be doing was repeating myself.

I DO think Liston was a lot bigger than Louis, if you don't, there is nothing I can do about it. Liston showed up to some fights 225+ and he wasn't even fat.

Wrong kind of movement. By that standard than Evander Holyfield should be considered a mover as he made a career of keeping his opponents turning and giving them angles. When I say "mover" I'm referring to a pure boxer who gets on his bicycle, sticks and moves, and uses his feet to stay out of his opponents kill-zone, and moves into range just long enough to get his punches off then moves back out. Bernard Hopkins is NOT that type of fighter. Hopkins' movement is more reminiscent of the affor mentioned Holyfield or maybe Roberto Duran and fighting in THAT manner would get him splattered by an ATG Heavyweight.

Poet

well,

Louis and Hopkins are near Identical in size, that was my main reason. Seeing as he comes in at 200+ maybe I don't have an argument anymore.

Previously, thinking Louis came in at around 200, meant he has about 10 lbs on Hopkins, the reach and height was near Identical. That was my initial argument. In my personal opinion Hopkins is a more skilled fighter than Louis p4p wise, so if they were similar in size I would give Hopkins a good chance.

If Louis is as big as you say he is though, perhaps I am wrong.

Got to stop you there. Even a Joe Louis at an even 200 is still a Heavyweight while a prime Hopkins is 160: A Middleweight. Bernard has fought recently (ie. as an old man and way past his prime) at 175 in a couple of fights: Still significantly smaller than a 200 pound Heavyweight.

Poet

Got to stop you there. Even a Joe Louis at an even 200 is still a Heavyweight while a prime Hopkins is 160: A Middleweight. Bernard has fought recently (ie. as an old man and way past his prime) at 175 in a couple of fights: Still significantly smaller than a 200 pound Heavyweight.

Poet

my initial argument was that Hopkins comes in at about 190 (after weigh in, during Louis' day it was "same day" weigh in) as of recently, That was my argument. I'm a pretty huge Hopkins fan so maybe I'm just digging to far.

As for the size comparison you would think Liston was much larger than Louis' he even looked bigger than his weight is listed at? Jab has told me otherwise. (this isn't really relevant, I just wanted to hear your opinion)

I believe Louis was at his peak when he fought against Abe Simon for the second time (some wouldn't agree) and he weighed 208 lbs. His opponent was nothing more than an over-sized punching bag (or atleast was made to look like one) but it's as impressive as any other performance I've seen of Joe Louis, despite the opposition.

It was his last fight before he took 4 years off from professional boxing because of the second World War.

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Pictures:

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U947156INP.jpg?size=67&uid={44584C26-F02D-4E01-9720-A40FBB595A65}

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U947160INP.jpg?size=67&uid={6f2adb5f-3fea-4433-b801-cf989458c0ac}

Liston actually weighed 204 lbs here against Wayne Bethea:

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I dismissed this thread at first thinking it was pure garbage. The more I run it through my head, it gets fairly interesting. I've also learned to stop counting Hopkins out.

I don't think it's right to just say "slick" guys gave Louis trouble generally. Although, most of them stood a better chance against him than guys who were willing to trade.

Conn and Hopkins have different styles. Both can be thought of as "slick" but that slickness isn't the same. Seems to me that Conn was more of a mover than was Bernard whereas Bernard fights well in the pocket. Here's the thing. Louis had slow feet fast hands. Against a mover (Conn) Louis looks plodding and ineffective. But Bernard would be in front of Louis, eluding punches by giving him angles, tying up, and all the neat little things that Bernard does. Thing is people often overlook just how fast Louis' hands were. They associate Louis with punching power. If Hopkins stays in front of Louis, I think he gets tagged eventually. I think Bernard could possibly make things interesting until he gets hit flush with a combination or two. Louis KO 11.

KO 11 is too generous. Make that Louis KO 9.

my initial argument was that Hopkins comes in at about 190 (after weigh in, during Louis' day it was "same day" weigh in) as of recently, That was my argument. I'm a pretty huge Hopkins fan so maybe I'm just digging to far.

As for the size comparison you would think Liston was much larger than Louis' he even looked bigger than his weight is listed at? Jab has told me otherwise. (this isn't really relevant, I just wanted to hear your opinion)

Well, both were about 6'1" in height. Louis in prime came in around 200 pounds while Liston was 210-215 in prime so yeah Liston WAS actually larger by a moderate amount (10-15 pounds). Liston generally LOOKED much larger for some reason and I know for a fact he came to the ring with his robe packed with towells so he'd look even bigger to his intimidated opponent.

Poet

The problem I see with threads like this is that with a few paragraphs, someone can wipe out a great fighters legacy.

So to say this another way, if Bernard Hopkins can beat a Joe Louis, one of the best heavyweights to have ever fought and someone who is just about universally on everybody's Top 5 list of A.T.G.'s at heavyweight, does this mean that Hopkins is now one of history's all time best heavyweights as well?

Am I missing something here? How many heavyweights has B-Hop knocked out? How many times has he defended the heavyweight championship of the world? How, when he never fought over 174, can he really be favored over Joe Louis. Based on what? His body of work vs other heavyweights?
He never fought a heavyweight.

These are all in fun and I know everybody's opinion is not the same as mine.
But this is a little disrespectful to Joe Louis, don't you think?
I like Hopkins as much as the next guy here, but if somebody asked him "Do you like your chances against Joe Louis?", what do you really think he'd say?

Joe Louis beats him. And Monzon. And Hagler. And Ketchel. And Ricky Hatton. And Joe Louis beats Floyd Mayweather JR. And Manny P. And Salvador Sanchez. I'll take Joe over Lupe Pintor also.

The problem I see with threads like this is that with a few paragraphs, someone can wipe out a great fighters legacy.

So to say this another way, if Bernard Hopkins can beat a Joe Louis, one of the best heavyweights to have ever fought and someone who is just about universally on everybody's Top 5 list of A.T.G.'s at heavyweight, does this mean that Hopkins is now one of history's all time best heavyweights as well?

Am I missing something here? How many heavyweights has B-Hop knocked out? How many times has he defended the heavyweight championship of the world? How, when he never fought over 174, can he really be favored over Joe Louis. Based on what? His body of work vs other heavyweights?
He never fought a heavyweight.

These are all in fun and I know everybody's opinion is not the same as mine.
But this is a little disrespectful to Joe Louis, don't you think?
I like Hopkins as much as the next guy here, but if somebody asked him "Do you like your chances against Joe Louis?", what do you really think he'd say?

Joe Louis beats him. And Monzon. And Hagler. And Ketchel. And Ricky Hatton. And Joe Louis beats Floyd Mayweather JR. And Manny P. And Salvador Sanchez. I'll take Joe over Lupe Pintor also.

this whole thread started as "Hopkins has a chance" when you break it down. It escalated into "Hopkins beats Louis". Hopkins has never fought at HW so we will never know.

Louis is one of the greatest heavyweights of all time, a very sharp puncher.

The problem I see with threads like this is that with a few paragraphs, someone can wipe out a great fighters legacy.

So to say this another way, if Bernard Hopkins can beat a Joe Louis, one of the best heavyweights to have ever fought and someone who is just about universally on everybody's Top 5 list of A.T.G.'s at heavyweight, does this mean that Hopkins is now one of history's all time best heavyweights as well?

Am I missing something here? How many heavyweights has B-Hop knocked out? How many times has he defended the heavyweight championship of the world? How, when he never fought over 174, can he really be favored over Joe Louis. Based on what? His body of work vs other heavyweights?
He never fought a heavyweight.

These are all in fun and I know everybody's opinion is not the same as mine.
But this is a little disrespectful to Joe Louis, don't you think?
I like Hopkins as much as the next guy here, but if somebody asked him "Do you like your chances against Joe Louis?", what do you really think he'd say?

Joe Louis beats him. And Monzon. And Hagler. And Ketchel. And Ricky Hatton. And Joe Louis beats Floyd Mayweather JR. And Manny P. And Salvador Sanchez. I'll take Joe over Lupe Pintor also.

This is just a straight up good post with a sense of humor to it. Green K given.