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The narrator is dumb, I watch that fight almost everyday, start to finish. Biggs rarely hit Tyson with the jab in the first round. Tyson clearly was blocking more then 90% of them. Dude is dumb as hell. Also he didn't even dominate the round. He did that shit for like 2:15 minutes of that round till Tyson popped him with a bodyshot and slowed all that shit down.

The narrator is dumb, I watch that fight almost everyday, start to finish. Biggs rarely hit Tyson with the jab in the first round. Tyson clearly was blocking more then 90% of them. Dude is dumb as hell. Also he didn't even dominate the round. He did that shit for like 2:15 minutes of that round till Tyson popped him with a bodyshot and slowed all that shit down.

The fact you say you watch the fight everyday show's you are a Tyson ass kisser, I see it how it is, and for you to say He didnt land jabs means your a fool. Biggs isnt even a good fighter, and for the first round he showed Tyson up, Tyson is a Good fighter, but people like you that cant see his weaknesses are just people that refuse the fact that a prime tyson is beatable, I wasnt saying that Biggs would beat him or Holmes, i was GIVE AN EXAMPLE, that Tyson has trouble against Boxers that move around, And a PRIME Ali was the Best At that, a 38 year old Larry Holmes showed us in the first 20 secs of the 4th round that Tyson is easy to jab, 90% of thos jabs landed solid, Count how many times Tyson Landed a clean punch in those two highlights, ALI Would have out boxed Tyson,.


Tyson is good,
But Ali is Great

Stop kissing ass, and watch more fighter instead of watching Tyson Vs Biggs everyday you moron

The narrator is dumb, I watch that fight almost everyday, start to finish. Biggs rarely hit Tyson with the jab in the first round. Tyson clearly was blocking more then 90% of them. Dude is dumb as hell. Also he didn't even dominate the round. He did that shit for like 2:15 minutes of that round till Tyson popped him with a bodyshot and slowed all that shit down.

yea i know, that is sort of dumb, biggs didn't do any damage, Tyson slipped almost all of those.

I'd say Ali would start peeling out a solid UD12 though after round 6.

This assessment is BS though, they avoided showing what Tyson would eventually do, and that's land something big of his own.

you could do the same with Foreman in his prime, show clips of someone running around like a chicken and throwing half assed jabs, didn't change the out come.

yea i know, that is sort of dumb, biggs didn't do any damage, Tyson slipped almost all of those.

I'd say Ali would start peeling out a solid UD12 though after round 6.

This assessment is BS though, they avoided showing what Tyson would eventually do, and that's land something big of his own.

Once again.


This is one video out of possibly 4-5

this covers Tyson Against someone moving, and you say what happens when TYson Lands somthing big.


Ali Took Shavers Punches
He Took Foreman's Punches
He Took Liston's Punches
and He Took Joe Frazier's


1 big punch from Tyson ( If he can catch a prime Ali) Aint gonna cut it

The fact you say you watch the fight everyday show's you are a Tyson ass kisser, I see it how it is, and for you to say He didnt land jabs means your a fool. Biggs isnt even a good fighter, and for the first round he showed Tyson up, Tyson is a Good fighter, but people like you that cant see his weaknesses are just people that refuse the fact that a prime tyson is beatable, I wasnt saying that Biggs would beat him or Holmes, i was GIVE AN EXAMPLE, that Tyson has trouble against Boxers that move around, And a PRIME Ali was the Best At that, a 38 year old Larry Holmes showed us in the first 20 secs of the 4th round that Tyson is easy to jab, 90% of thos jabs landed solid, Count how many times Tyson Landed a clean punch in those two highlights, ALI Would have out boxed Tyson,.


Tyson is good,
But Ali is Great

Stop kissing ass, and watch more fighter instead of watching Tyson Vs Biggs everyday you moron

I have 2 eyes like you, you can clearly see Biggs doesn't land a lot of those jabs on Tyson. LOOK AT THE DAMN VIDEO AGAIN! You don't have to be a nuthugger(Which I'm not cause I also think Ali could beat Tyson and Tyson beat Ali)

Also did I say that's all I watch? Haha. I'm a boxer myself dumbass. I tend to watch a lot of fighters. Also Holmes landing 90% of those jabs in the 4th? You're fing DELUSIONAL. Watch a fight before you try to criticize what anyone that has vision can see.

You also said Holmes jabs(90% of them) landed SOLID?:ugh

Once again.


This is one video out of possibly 4-5

this covers Tyson Against someone moving, and you say what happens when TYson Lands somthing big.


Ali Took Shavers Punches
He Took Foreman's Punches
He Took Liston's Punches
and He Took Joe Frazier's


1 big punch from Tyson ( If he can catch a prime Ali) Aint gonna cut it


I know it won't cut it, I have Ali winning. My point was he isn't going to dance around and make a fool of Tyson ether without taking something in return like this video makes it out to be. Both Holmes and Biggs looked good dancing untill they got hit, so whats this video proving?

Btw, Tyson was a sharp puncher, he put Holmes to sleep, a guy that withstood shavers punches to.

But, Ali's durability is to great, even if he did hit the canvas I'd see him winning.

I know it won't cut it, I have Ali winning. My point was he isn't going to dance around and make a fool of Tyson ether without taking something in return like this video makes it out to be. Both Holmes and Biggs looked good dancing untill they got hit, so whats this video proving?

Btw, Tyson was a sharp puncher, he put Holmes to sleep, a guy that withstood shavers punches to.

But, Ali's durability is to great, even if he did hit the canvas I'd see him winning.


Like i said, more videos will come, the next one will be Ali againsnt someone like tyson,ect


Holmes didnt stop dancing cos tyson hit him, he didnt even start dancing till the 4th round, he stopped cos at 38 years old he couldnt do it anymore,

And Biggs didnt stop cos he was hit either, he stopped because in the 2nd round he thought he could slug it out with mike ( HUGE mistake)

Like i said, more videos will come, the next one will be Ali againsnt someone like tyson,ect


Holmes didnt stop dancing cos tyson hit him, he didnt even start dancing till the 4th round, he stopped cos at 38 years old he couldnt do it anymore,

And Biggs didnt stop cos he was hit either, he stopped because in the 2nd round he thought he could slug it out with mike ( HUGE mistake)

no he didn't, he stopped because he wanted to land something meaningful, and Tyson countered him. Running and jabbing all night isn't going to win a fight.

why do you think Ali had trouble with a pressure fighter like Frazier(they don't fight the same, but they both pressure relentlessly ) realistically he could have ran and jabbed all night, but it would do him no good.

When Ali knocked Liston out, he had to stop and land something meaningful, Liston isn't quick enough to take advantage of that.

Let's get this straight though, I believe Ali wins this fight, his combination of heart, toughness and relative speed would get him a solid UD12. It wouldn't be easy like this video states though, there is a lot more to it than just running and jabbing.

Really running and jabbing wasn't the most successful way to beat Tyson, it only gave him room to unload something big, the best way was to physically out work him, like Holyfield did and even guys like bone crusher smith had some success with.

you are mistaking "staying alive" with "doing good" Tyson beat most runners with solid decision wins.

why do you think Ali had trouble with a pressure fighter like Frazier(they don't fight the same, but they both pressure relentlessly ) realistically he could have ran and jabbed all night, but it would do him no good.





The fact that they don't fight the same is important. Frazier applied pressure but it was brawling pressure that included persistent attacks to the body. Tyson usually tries to land one or two shots, with speed (not by brawling) and usually to the head. That isn't a good approach to fighting Ali.

So i don't think this fight would be as hard for Ali as Frazier, but it still won't be a cake walk.

The fact that they don't fight the same is important. Frazier applied pressure but it was brawling pressure that included persistent attacks to the body. Tyson usually tries to land one or two shots, with speed (not by brawling) and usually to the head. That isn't a good approach to fighting Ali.

So i don't think this fight would be as hard for Ali as Frazier, but it still won't be a cake walk.

good point

He'da beat him, but not exactly easily.

That would depend on your definition of easy. He does, however, beat him convincingly 10 times out of 10.
Ali takes Tyson late into a tough fight, and drowns him in the deep waters. Every time.

so, showing a fighter who cried when tyson hit him in the body do ok for 1 round and 20 seconds of larry holmes dancing is showing muhammed could win? Buster Douglas had a better formula for beating tyson than either of those guys, he kept mike turning and kept pecking away at him with lefts and rights.

I say ali wins this by ud or late ko.

I know it won't cut it, I have Ali winning. My point was he isn't going to dance around and make a fool of Tyson ether without taking something in return like this video makes it out to be. Both Holmes and Biggs looked good dancing untill they got hit, so whats this video proving?

Btw, Tyson was a sharp puncher, he put Holmes to sleep, a guy that withstood shavers punches to.

But, Ali's durability is to great, even if he did hit the canvas I'd see him winning.

He isn't using good examples to make his case for whatever reason. Biggs was only interested in trying (unsuccessfully) to survive after the first solid punch Tyson landed and Larry was aged to the point where he could only pop that jab for as few seconds as opposed to all fight long as he did in his prime.

A point about the Holmes fight. Larry's reflexes were gone by that point and Mike was able to land flush a lot more frequently than Shaver's was against a prime Holmes: A big difference in the outcome of the two fights as Shavers couldn't follow up his knockdown with anything solid while Tyson was right there with more clean shots. Scary thing is, Holmes wasn't even out after the third knockdown: They wouldn't let him get up! He's trying to rise and his cornermen where holding him down so the ring doc could check him and Larry was saying "Richie get me off the damn canvas". If the fight hadn't been waved off as he's falling for the third time I think Larry would have got up for more.

Poet

He isn't using good examples to make his case for whatever reason. Biggs was only interested in trying (unsuccessfully) to survive after the first solid punch Tyson landed and Larry was aged to the point where he could only pop that jab for as few seconds as opposed to all fight long as he did in his prime.

A point about the Holmes fight. Larry's reflexes were gone by that point and Mike was able to land flush a lot more frequently than Shaver's was against a prime Holmes: A big difference in the outcome of the two fights as Shavers couldn't follow up his knockdown with anything solid while Tyson was right there with more clean shots. Scary thing is, Holmes wasn't even out after the third knockdown: They wouldn't let him get up! He's trying to rise and his cornermen where holding him down so the ring doc could check him and Larry was saying "Richie get me off the damn canvas". If the fight hadn't been waved off as he's falling for the third time I think Larry would have got up for more.

Poet

theres no doubt in my mind a prime Holmes would beat Tyson also, but he wouldn't do it by running and jabbing. Why give a puncher room? The only reason Shavers gave a guy like Ali problems was because Ali gave him room. I would think if Ali picked his spots he could have finished shavers quite easily.

I should also probably say that fighting on the backfoot and running are different from each other.

In the position Holmes was in I don't think he would get up and make a comeback, he was spread out on his back. After the fight Holmes said Tyson completely knocked his equilibrium off course. It was probably due to his old age though (and accumulation of punches like you said), during his younger years his re cooperative powers were much better, hence getting up from a shavers right hand.

theres no doubt in my mind a prime Holmes would beat Tyson also, but he wouldn't do it by running and jabbing. Why give a puncher room? The only reason Shavers gave a guy like Ali problems was because Ali gave him room. I would think if Ali picked his spots he could have finished shavers quite easily.

I should also probably say that fighting on the backfoot and running are different from each other.

In the position Holmes was in I don't think he would get up and make a comeback, he was spread out on his back. After the fight Holmes said Tyson completely knocked his equilibrium off course. It was probably due to his old age though (and accumulation of punches like you said), during his younger years his re cooperative powers were much better, hence getting up from a shavers right hand.

Good points, although I think Holmes would jab Tyson crazy: He did that to everyone when he was in his prime. I don't think he'd "run" as Larry was never a runner; I do think Homes would keep Tyson on the end of his jab like Douglas did. Not running, but taking a back step or two when Tyson moved into intermediate range. It means constantly being alert but then Holmes was a very alert fighter.

Poet

As I have said many times before, you have to add the Cus factor in here. If Cus is alive for this fight, I think Mike would have an excellent chance to win. Cus knew Ali's style very well and he was so confindent in knowing that he could get a defeat over Ali that he was planning on getting Jose Torres to move up to heavyweight to fight Ali. Also, lets not forget about this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrWlHDYDkjg

I believe that Cus would have had Tyson prepared to defeat Ali, just like with Larry Holmes. Tyson is the only man to knock out Holmes for a reason, in addition to Larry obviously being past his best, Mike and Cus used to analyze Larry Holmes' every move since Tyson was an amatuer because they assumed that Larry would still be champ by the time Mike came up the ranks/ They would have been prepared for Ali imo. With that said though, I think Ali would pull out a decision(if it were going 15), but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike pull out a victory either.

Speed kills, and he was better in '67

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Speed kills, and he was better in '67



** Ali isn't the only fighter with speed, but more importantly, timing and technique limit speed and left hooks to the jaw were like death rays to Ali.

Ali could never keep a 205 lb Frazier off him, and Frazier's physical health was declining rapidly after their first fight. He never could solve the Norton puzzle, so it's obvious he would be vulnerable to the bob and weave of Tyson and Dempsey as well, both possessers of excellent left hooks to complement their full arsenals which included healthy doses of speed.

The main thing Ali has going is that he tended to get up for big fights, so we'd see the best versions of him. Otherwise he's a very inconsistent fighter through out his career and could be picked off. At his best he wasted a lot of energy missing punches and running around the ring when not walking on water and curing young boys of pimples.

Of course the haters of Tyson want to match the McBride version of Tyson with the Ali who dismantled Big Cat Williams. Whatever. Boys will be boys and they have their little games they play on their computers, but most of them prefer the MMA/UFC, so in their world, Brock Lesner would pick up Ali and pile drive him through the ring. It's all good clean fun......:cool:

** Ali isn't the only fighter with speed, but more importantly, timing and technique limit speed and left hooks to the jaw were like death rays to Ali.

Ali could never keep a 205 lb Frazier off him, and Frazier's physical health was declining rapidly after their first fight. He never could solve the Norton puzzle, so it's obvious he would be vulnerable to the bob and weave of Tyson and Dempsey as well, both possessers of excellent left hooks to complement their full arsenals which included healthy doses of speed.

The main thing Ali has going is that he tended to get up for big fights, so we'd see the best versions of him. Otherwise he's a very inconsistent fighter through out his career and could be picked off. At his best he wasted a lot of energy missing punches and running around the ring when not walking on water and curing young boys of pimples.

Of course the haters of Tyson want to match the McBride version of Tyson with the Ali who dismantled Big Cat Williams. Whatever. Boys will be boys and they have their little games they play on their computers, but most of them prefer the MMA/UFC, so in their world, Brock Lesner would pick up Ali and pile drive him through the ring. It's all good clean fun......:cool:

Lol, I gotta say, I love your ornery disposition when describing things you don't agree with. Not saying I don't see the logic behind many of your posts, but damn, agree or disagree your posts are entertaining. Keep em coming.

The fact you say you watch the fight everyday show's you are a Tyson ass kisser, I see it how it is, and for you to say He didnt land jabs means your a fool. Biggs isnt even a good fighter, and for the first round he showed Tyson up, Tyson is a Good fighter, but people like you that cant see his weaknesses are just people that refuse the fact that a prime tyson is beatable, I wasnt saying that Biggs would beat him or Holmes, i was GIVE AN EXAMPLE, that Tyson has trouble against Boxers that move around, And a PRIME Ali was the Best At that, a 38 year old Larry Holmes showed us in the first 20 secs of the 4th round that Tyson is easy to jab, 90% of thos jabs landed solid, Count how many times Tyson Landed a clean punch in those two highlights, ALI Would have out boxed Tyson,.


Tyson is good,
But Ali is Great

Stop kissing ass, and watch more fighter instead of watching Tyson Vs Biggs everyday you moron
dude do you not see greatness in tyson?

Lol, I gotta say, I love your ornery disposition when describing things you don't agree with. Not saying I don't see the logic behind many of your posts, but damn, agree or disagree your posts are entertaining. Keep em coming.

Actually he's a 24 karot idiot. He hates Ali and spends most of his time trying to discredit him. He nuthugs Tyson like he's his gay lover. He doesn't know squat about boxing and practically all of his pronouncements on the suubject are just dead wrong. Comparing Tyson to Norton? That's just stupid: They weren't even close style wise. It's clear he has NO understanding at all of Norton's style and why it gave slick boxers fits. Any post he makes can be safely disregarded as the opposite is likely to be closer to the truth.

Poet

dude do you not see greatness in tyson?

dude it's debatable.

Poet

As I have said many times before, you have to add the Cus factor in here. If Cus is alive for this fight, I think Mike would have an excellent chance to win. Cus knew Ali's style very well and he was so confindent in knowing that he could get a defeat over Ali that he was planning on getting Jose Torres to move up to heavyweight to fight Ali. Also, lets not forget about this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrWlHDYDkjg

I believe that Cus would have had Tyson prepared to defeat Ali, just like with Larry Holmes. Tyson is the only man to knock out Holmes for a reason, in addition to Larry obviously being past his best, Mike and Cus used to analyze Larry Holmes' every move since Tyson was an amatuer because they assumed that Larry would still be champ by the time Mike came up the ranks/ They would have been prepared for Ali imo. With that said though, I think Ali would pull out a decision(if it were going 15), but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike pull out a victory either.

People put WAY to much stock in D'Amato and his ability to make Tyson better than he was. It's not like Kevin Rooney was chopped liver afterall. These same people then, in turn overrate ROONEY'S ability to make Tyson better than he was when comparing him pre and post the first Bruno fight. Get real people: A trainer has only so much impact on a fighter and ultimately a fighter enters the ring alone.

There's way to much playing of the "If only....." game with Tyson. I know of no other fighter that consistantly pulls that kind of wishful thinking. Tyson was the only fighter ever to have negative shit impact his career? Please.

What if.....

Jack Johnson hadn't been pursued by the government?
Joe Louis hadn't lost 4 years off his prime due to WWII?
Sonny Liston had gotten his title shot while still in prime?
Ali hadn't lost 3 years off his prime due to his being banned?

You can play this game with almost any fighter. In Tyson's case people really need to get a clue and dump the non-stop wishful thinking. Face it, no matter how many ifs and buts you dream and wish for you won't make Tyson into something he wasn't: That is anything close to being the best ever.

Poet

People put WAY to much stock in D'Amato and his ability to make Tyson better than he was. It's not like Kevin Rooney was chopped liver afterall. These same people then, in turn overrate ROONEY'S ability to make Tyson better than he was when comparing him pre and post the first Bruno fight. Get real people: A trainer has only so much impact on a fighter and ultimately a fighter enters the ring alone.

There's way to much playing of the "If only....." game with Tyson. I know of no other fighter that consistantly pulls that kind of wishful thinking. Tyson was the only fighter ever to have negative shit impact his career? Please.

What if.....

Jack Johnson hadn't been pursued by the government?
Joe Louis hadn't lost 4 years off his prime due to WWII?
Sonny Liston had gotten his title shot while still in prime?
Ali hadn't lost 3 years off his prime due to his being banned?

You can play this game with almost any fighter. In Tyson's case people really need to get a clue and dump the non-stop wishful thinking. Face it, no matter how many ifs and buts you dream and wish for you won't make Tyson into something he wasn't: That is anything close to being the best ever.

Poet

None of those guys was the psychological mess that Tyson was. And it wasn't Cus as trainer as much as it was Cus as father/only stabilizing force in the life of a mental child that was important.

That said, Ali takes him UD 3 out of 3 even with Cus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrWlHDYDkjg

Tyson is the only man to knock out Holmes for a reason


The reason is because Tyson is one of the top five punchers of all time, and Larry was over the hill and not fast enough to avoid him.

If Ali had problems with Joe Frazier than he would have similair problems with a young and focused Mike Tyson. Im talking the Tyson of 1987 when he was motivated and his reflexes were at its peak. That Tyson is much quicker than Joe Frazier.

If Ali had problems with Joe Frazier than he would have similair problems with a young and focused Mike Tyson. Im talking the Tyson of 1987 when he was motivated and his reflexes were at its peak. That Tyson is much quicker than Joe Frazier.



The fact that they don't fight the same is important. Frazier applied pressure but it was brawling pressure that included persistent attacks to the body. Tyson usually tries to land one or two shots, with speed (not by brawling) and usually to the head. That isn't a good approach to fighting Ali.

So i don't think this fight would be as hard for Ali as Frazier, but it still won't be a cake walk.

...........

dude do you not see greatness in tyson?


His combination of strength and speed made him a great puncher, but I'm afraid I don't see any other signs of greatness in him. His 'prime' was pathetically brief, he had no ring savvy to speak of, he had no dedication or heart, he was totally annihilated by the likes of Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis, Williams, McBride..

Cus told Ali how he would lose his first match with Frazier and what happened?
Ali did lose it and even got the knockdown how Cus thought it would go down.

Not prime Ali having trouble with Frazier does not mean he would have had the same problems with Frazier in his prime. In Ali/Frazier II, the first five rounds are an Ali white-wash because though slower and less elusive than he was in his prime, Frazier couldn't get to him as Ali had his best legs since returning. Only he couldn't maintain it past the first five rounds. Prime Ali could, and was faster/more elusive.

Mike could never land combinations against prime Ali, and Ali could stand up to any single shots Tyson landed. Ali would move, keep popping Tyson with his jab and short combinations, and Tyson would wear down. Most likely Mike would last the distance, because Ali isn't a power puncher and Tyson had a great chin, but Ali would win via UD.

His combination of strength and speed made him a great puncher, but I'm afraid I don't see any other signs of greatness in him. His 'prime' was pathetically brief, he had no ring savvy to speak of, he had no dedication or heart, he was totally annihilated by the likes of Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis, Williams, McBride..


I used to say that, starting putting him down at say no. 20 (still high for some people) but then I would start looking at some of the other contenders on peoples top 10 lists. Fighters like Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey and even Frazier. not that they were bad or anything, but I fail to see how they were greater than a guy like Tyson. For me he now resides around number 8, still high for some people, (but hey I'm a fan)

I think Tyson did have a peak, but not to the extent that some people are saying. A Prime Holyfield will always beat Mike, regardless, so will a slew of other Heavyweights. I will say that Tyson who fought Douglas looked awful though and it's generally only haters that bring up that fight. (Ali gets less heat for being beaten by Spinks)

There aren't enough truly great heavyweights to legitimately put Tyson out of the picture. Where as in divisions like welterweight, middleweight etc there are tons of great fighters all battling for a position.

In terms of measuring greatness though,

Tyson's resume is average, it looks better when you look at how he did it. Losing to a journey man did not help his cause though and put's a dark cloud over his career, if he had his first loss to Holyfield I think people would respect him more.

still, he was 21 when he cleaned out his division, hammered undefeated Spinks in 90 seconds, and was the only man to knock out Holmes. It's enough to Warrant a no. 8 spot.

Actually he's a 24 karot idiot. He hates Ali and spends most of his time trying to discredit him. He nuthugs Tyson like he's his gay lover......Poet

** Ah, poor prepubescent poet tri-rhyming nuthugger, koolaide and gay in unceasing stanzas of desperate doggeral anytime Tyson is mentioned.

Putting me on ignore never helped him much it any more than the ritalin did.

Here's a Valentine poem just for Poet don't ya know it:

Poets are red and nuthuggers blue.
Gay as purple as his koolaide is too.

dude do you not see greatness in tyson?

nope

i see a very talented young man who had absolutely no brain and no idea of how to act properly, and a man with a bully mentality who crumbled the first time he fought a man who wasnt scared of him

nope

i see a very talented young man who had absolutely no brain and no idea of how to act properly, and a man with a bully mentality who crumbled the first time he fought a man who wasnt scared of him

you could say the same about Foreman to, a lot of his power was based on his opponents fear.

People put WAY to much stock in D'Amato and his ability to make Tyson better than he was. It's not like Kevin Rooney was chopped liver afterall. These same people then, in turn overrate ROONEY'S ability to make Tyson better than he was when comparing him pre and post the first Bruno fight. Get real people: A trainer has only so much impact on a fighter and ultimately a fighter enters the ring alone.

There's way to much playing of the "If only....." game with Tyson. I know of no other fighter that consistantly pulls that kind of wishful thinking. Tyson was the only fighter ever to have negative shit impact his career? Please.

What if.....

Jack Johnson hadn't been pursued by the government?
Joe Louis hadn't lost 4 years off his prime due to WWII?
Sonny Liston had gotten his title shot while still in prime?
Ali hadn't lost 3 years off his prime due to his being banned?

You can play this game with almost any fighter. In Tyson's case people really need to get a clue and dump the non-stop wishful thinking. Face it, no matter how many ifs and buts you dream and wish for you won't make Tyson into something he wasn't: That is anything close to being the best ever.

Poet

Excellent post and I fully agree.

tyson wins.

People put WAY to much stock in D'Amato and his ability to make Tyson better than he was. It's not like Kevin Rooney was chopped liver afterall. These same people then, in turn overrate ROONEY'S ability to make Tyson better than he was when comparing him pre and post the first Bruno fight. Get real people: A trainer has only so much impact on a fighter and ultimately a fighter enters the ring alone.

There's way to much playing of the "If only....." game with Tyson. I know of no other fighter that consistantly pulls that kind of wishful thinking. Tyson was the only fighter ever to have negative shit impact his career? Please.

What if.....

Jack Johnson hadn't been pursued by the government?
Joe Louis hadn't lost 4 years off his prime due to WWII?
Sonny Liston had gotten his title shot while still in prime?
Ali hadn't lost 3 years off his prime due to his being banned?

You can play this game with almost any fighter. In Tyson's case people really need to get a clue and dump the non-stop wishful thinking. Face it, no matter how many ifs and buts you dream and wish for you won't make Tyson into something he wasn't: That is anything close to being the best ever.

Poet

What does that have to do with my post? The point is that Cus felt he had a blueprint to defeat Ali, he just needed the right fighter to lay out his plan. I was mentioning Cus in the context of better helping him prepare for Ali because he knew Ali very well and as one of the greatest teachers/boxing minds in the history of sport would have had Tyson taking Ali at his absolute best. I don't understand how that turns into comparisons with Liston, Ali, and Joe Louis. Furthermore, I think its ridiculous to say that trainers won't make a difference, if that were the case we wouldn't see trainers being hired and fired all the time.

nope

i see a very talented young man who had absolutely no brain and no idea of how to act properly, and a man with a bully mentality who crumbled the first time he fought a man who wasnt scared of him

Thats a myth that Tyson could only beat people that were scared of him. Tony Tucker wasn't scared of him, old man Larry wasn't scared of him,Ruddock wasn't scared of him, even later on Frans Botha wasn't scared of him either. I have always had the opinion that Tyson was a product of a great system, he was a very good fighter that was part of a system that made him great, but once out of the system he was just a very good fighter and not a great one.

prime tyson wos a ****ign baest he wud murder ali he had sik hand sped and incredable powa greatset hevywait evaer

prime tyson wos a ****ign baest he wud murder ali he had sik hand sped and incredable powa greatset hevywait evaer

wow, I think this post wins the thread, i agree completely as long as you dont go tough ghetto guy on me over the internet :puppy_dog

nope

i see a very talented young man who had absolutely no brain and no idea of how to act properly, and a man with a bully mentality who crumbled the first time he fought a man who wasnt scared of him

You need to watch more of old Tyson fights before you make such a foolish post.

You need to watch more of old Tyson fights before you make such a foolish post.

Are you kidding, that was a ****ing great post!

an easier case can be made for Rocky, he'd been taken to school entire fights only to land one big shot.

Are you kidding, that was a ****ing great post!

Tell that to Ruddock, Holmes, Pinklon ,Bruno, Tillis, Tucker.

dude it's debatable.

Poet
i agree...... but i see tyson murdering fighters like iston and frazier.... foreman as well...... just imagine ali tryin to use the rope-a-dope on tyson....... can u spell ko?

Ali beats Tyson at any point...prime tyson was never really tested except Buster Douglas...who knocked him out. I just don't see Tyson ever beating Ali...Tyson lost to Holyfield and Holy was never a great great fighter on Ali's level... I wish it could be seen because Ali would've given the most beautiful whipping of all time on Tyson. Tyson would've been Ali's bitch oh mannnn it kills me how we never got to see this fight. Oh well, buy Fight Night Round 4 and see

Tell that to Ruddock, Holmes, Pinklon ,Bruno, Tillis, Tucker.

We might also ask how all those other fighters ended up afraid of Tyson in the first place, it sure wasn't his voice.

i agree...... but i see tyson murdering fighters like iston and frazier.... foreman as well...... just imagine ali tryin to use the rope-a-dope on tyson....... can u spell ko?

Foreman would bust him up.

Ali wouldn't rope a dope Tyson ether, he did it against only Foreman.

You need to watch more of old Tyson fights before you make such a foolish post.

i have watched many early tyson fights as well as later ones

all those guys before buster were afraid, you could tell....they were in there with a young lion who wanted to rip their heads off and they wanted none of it...busters mother had died a few weeks before the tyson fight and he trained like a mother****er and wanted that win so badly....he wasnt afraid of tyson and he stuck to his guns and thats why he won

you could say the same about Foreman to, a lot of his power was based on his opponents fear.

very true, a young foreman had a bully mentality too.....i remember someone saying how a famous trainer told ali that foreman had the mentality of a bully, and if ali stood up to him early he would destroy him mentally...


but what makes foreman great is that after being humbled by ali he came back at a later age and showed more maturity and fought some more great competition and even beat some to regain a portion of the title....

after tysons humbling he went on to abuse his wife, rape a woman, bite a mans ear off and threaten to eat anothers children......and gain no really significant wins in the process


thats what makes george great and tyson good

very true, a young foreman had a bully mentality too.....i remember someone saying how a famous trainer told ali that foreman had the mentality of a bully, and if ali stood up to him early he would destroy him mentally...


but what makes foreman great is that after being humbled by ali he came back at a later age and showed more maturity and fought some more great competition and even beat some to regain a portion of the title....

after tysons humbling he went on to abuse his wife, rape a woman, bite a mans ear off and threaten to eat anothers children......and gain no really significant wins in the process


thats what makes george great and tyson good

you can't base what a fighter does outside the ring and apply it to his boxing career. This isn't a reality show where they follow boxers around and determine their overall greatness.

they are both great in my eyes, Foreman higher on the list, but both great.

It's to bad that people who see what happened to a guy like Tyson and respond with hate. Reporters to this day treat him like trash to get a reaction.

He's not the brightest guy around but he's got feelings.

What does that have to do with my post? The point is that Cus felt he had a blueprint to defeat Ali, he just needed the right fighter to lay out his plan. I was mentioning Cus in the context of better helping him prepare for Ali because he knew Ali very well and as one of the greatest teachers/boxing minds in the history of sport would have had Tyson taking Ali at his absolute best. I don't understand how that turns into comparisons with Liston, Ali, and Joe Louis. Furthermore, I think its ridiculous to say that trainers won't make a difference, if that were the case we wouldn't see trainers being hired and fired all the time.

Cus thought the Mob, the Martians, the Russians, and half the populations of Venus was out to get him but that doesn't make it so. If Cus thought he had a blueprint for beating Ali than he was more delusional than he normally was.

Poet

prime tyson wos a ****ign baest he wud murder ali he had sik hand sped and incredable powa greatset hevywait evaer

Your retarded. Go die.

Poet

i agree...... but i see tyson murdering fighters like iston and frazier.... foreman as well...... just imagine ali tryin to use the rope-a-dope on tyson....... can u spell ko?

Tyson is on the bad end of a matchup clash when it comes to Foreman and probably Liston too. Ali played rope-a-dope when he was past it and no longer had the legs to move for 15 rounds. To make an analogy, could you imagine past it Tyson trying to beat a prime Ali with no head movement and throwing one punch at a time?

Poet

We might also ask how all those other fighters ended up afraid of Tyson in the first place, it sure wasn't his voice.

His voice got him ass-raped in prison :rofl:

Poet