View Full Version : about that 90% of fights end on the ground..


Kempo Chris
01-27-2004, 02:56 AM
I hear all these ground fighter say 90% of fights end on the ground. Yea i think 90% of fights end on the ground, because some get knocked out or down on the floor.
Ask yourself this where does every fight start?
In the MMA ring I think groundfighting is great, but for self defense I think it sux.
If you get into a fight just think if you go to the ground, there is not to much you can do if the person your fighting pulls out a knife or his friends run over and start stomping on you and kicking in the face.
I would fight the greatest groundfighter in the world if we fought in a parking lot with broken glass on the floor.
I enjoy ground fighiting, but do not really like it too much for self defense.
Do fights go to the ground hell yea.
I am not saying that it is not important to know groundfighting, because I personally do train in groundfighting. But for self defense do not try to take the fight to the ground.
Just my two cents.

Discuss
Argue with me

Curly Howard
01-27-2004, 03:32 AM
Most fights hit the ground because someone trips or tries to duck and hide. Most untrained people either throw a hay maker or the bigger guy takes the smaller guy down and tries to beat on him.
Having basic ground fighting skills would help a lot in a street fight. The last street fight I was in I got the guy to stop with an arm bar. I'm a trained fighter and he wasn't and he still got me down. We were inside a store and I tripped. Point is knowing not to panic and some ground fighting skills would help.
Even if it's just pulling guard and waiting for help or breaking an attacker's arm.

Zen
01-27-2004, 03:41 AM
I'd prefer to keep any street fight standing, just because of the million variables in a street fight. But if it does go to the ground, having some skill is gonna help you immeasurably. If the guys friends were around, I'd be getting up asap though.

Kempo Chris
01-27-2004, 08:06 AM
having good ground basics is very important

If someone brought me to the ground in a streetfight, they would regret it because I would have bitten off a piece of thier flesh or rammed my fingers into thier eyes

wondermut
01-27-2004, 12:03 PM
If I get in a streetfight it is going to the ground and there will be a quick finish to follow. I have trained standup arts and as you know I am a BJJ blue belt, I am good on my feet but up there anything can happen. On the ground it is my world and you are fuct!!!

Kempo Chris
01-27-2004, 02:23 PM
sucks for you if someone thrust thier fingers into your eyes or bites a piece of you off or pulls out a knife or one of thier friends starts stomping on your head

wondermut
01-27-2004, 03:46 PM
same things can happen standing...sux for everyone

Kempo Chris
01-27-2004, 04:17 PM
the whole point of standing is to not be that close for that **** to happen. When standing you can move a hell of alot easier than when your on the groung to get away.

wondermut
01-27-2004, 04:55 PM
speak for yourself

realkaps
01-27-2004, 09:36 PM
I usually take the fight too the ground in a street fight if it is 1 on 1, chokes work great for stopping an attacker, I also like to take them down, get up and start kicking them.....

GrayGhost
01-31-2004, 05:58 PM
First: The stats about fights going to the ground don't cover a lot of special circumstances. For example: When you fight an experienced ground fighter, the stat goes to 100 % because going to the ground will not be by accident and will not be by your choice.

Secondly: The guy who is in a dominant position on the ground will be able to deliver much more devastation with bites and eyepokes
if that is where you want to go.

Third: The last two fights I know of in which my training partners were involved, ended with the other guy on the ground. They did not have to go down after the throw and knee on belly. One, who attacked with a club, had a broken shoulder and busted head. The other just got his face punched in after being hip tossed.

GrayGhost
01-31-2004, 06:03 PM
A girl I trained with was being dragged from behind into a alley by her neck.

She took the guy down and broke his arm causing him to pass out.

I'm glad she wasn't a stand up artist! A high kick wouldn't help much when he was on her back.

Kempo Chris
01-31-2004, 09:02 PM
I love throws, but I would not start groundfighting with someone on the stretts after taking them down.

I consider myself a standup fighter and believe me no ground fighter wants to take me to the ground in a streetfight, because I will make them pay dearly for going down.

If you get taken to the ground you should be able to fight them off and get up quickly, groundfighting is essential to know for a anyone, but not where you should want to go.

And I do not use high kicks.

One day I got to put out a challenge to all groundfighters to fight me in a streetfight so I can prove my point.

And hell no the stats do not go to 100% when fighting an expierienced groundfighter and please do not pull things out of your ass and post them.

TheMachine
02-01-2004, 12:21 AM
I always prefer to stand up in a street fight since you never know when a buddies of your enemy might show up and attack you from your blindside.

Kempo Chris
02-01-2004, 02:29 PM
of course if your on the ground you will most likely get stomped out

GrayGhost
02-01-2004, 11:56 PM
"And hell no the stats do not go to 100% when fighting an expierienced groundfighter and please do not pull things out of your ass and post them."
=OK 99.9%. What's the matter? Real events not work for you?

"no ground fighter wants to take me to the ground in a streetfight, because I will make them pay dearly for going down."
=out of your ass.

"If you get taken to the ground you should be able to fight them off and get up quickly."
=out of your ass.

"One day I got to put out a challenge to all groundfighters to fight me in a streetfight so I can prove my point."
=out of your ass.

"I would have bitten off a piece of thier flesh or rammed my fingers into thier eyes."
=out of your ass.



__________________

Fallout
02-02-2004, 01:06 AM
Fighting on the ground is good in a street fight, not fighting from your back

GrayGhost
02-02-2004, 01:41 AM
Allan has choked out the correct!

Kempo Chris
02-02-2004, 01:53 AM
Gray ghost you make me laugh

It is not too easy to take a trained fighter to the ground

Honestly the only thing that came out of my ass was the challenge and I would really like to do that.

And what is wrong with me saying that, If you get taken to the ground you should be able to fight them off and get up quickly

And believe me if I get in a streetfight I will do terribly ****ed up things to my opponent like thrusting my finger into thier eyes or biting off a piece of thier flesh or or hitting them in thier throat or trying to destroy thier manhood - I am very nice, but can be extremley mean if I have to be


Answer this question what would you do if he pulls out a knifer and your on top of him - very hard to defend against a knife while your on the ground

And it is not to easy to defend yourself from his friends that are coming after you

Rolling around in the streets is not to nice either

S.Stewart
02-02-2004, 01:57 AM
I'm going to go with my thesis topic here and say that it really depends on the person. If you're a strong standup person, then knock that sucker out. If you're a strong grappler, take him down and break something fast. Just be sure to end it all quickly.

GrayGhost
02-02-2004, 11:49 PM
" Answer this question what would you do if he pulls out a knifer and your on top of him - very hard to defend against a knife while your on the ground"

Actually, if running is not an option, it may or may not be easier to defend a knife attack from a dominate ground position. It is often easy to use two hands against one on the ground.

I will admit it is easier to run if not on the ground. If he has friends
attacking you, your probably screwed weather your up or down.

Since he is threating me with deadly force, I guess I'd have to do the same thing I'd do if we were standing. I'd pull the trigger of my legally concealed glock. According to my training, this does constitute grounds for using deadly force in self-defense.

You can always up the ante in the discussion. The only thing I'm trying to point out is that if a guy is close enough to strike, I'm close enough to close and take him down. I know I'll get hit. I'm used to getting hit. I know he'll go down. I'm not trying to resolve every possible senario. ie., knives, friends, guns, grenades, landmines, bazookas, etc.

Obviously, your comfort zone is in a different place from mine. Mine is on the ground.

Kempo Chris
02-02-2004, 11:59 PM
In a one on one confrontation - I find nothing wrong with going to the ground, but in a apontaneous streetfight where you do not know what is gonna come at you, you are way safer standing.

And you are way safer standing up if you are fighting against someone with a knife and the same goes for fighting mutiple attackers - I gues you just do not know how to defend from stand up against these situations.

Kempo Chris
02-03-2004, 12:01 AM
I am speaking about this because I train both ground and standup and i know the dangers and differences between using both on the streets.

Deacon Frost
04-16-2004, 11:51 PM
In a street fight you don't ever want to go to the ground if it can be avoided. You never know who is going to join in or what weapons they can be carrying. But you need to have some ground skills just in case.

Fallout
04-16-2004, 11:56 PM
Like I said before, fighting on the ground in a street fight isn't a bad thing. Being on your back is. NEVER pull guard

Deacon Frost
04-17-2004, 02:47 AM
If you are fighting multiple opponents it may be more in your favor to pull guard or go to your back. At least then that way you can see them coming and pull one dude in and use him as cover. Most styles that teach you how to deal with multiple opponents teach you to do this. I know more than one fight that has been one like that.

Fallout
04-17-2004, 02:59 AM
if you fighting more than one person, it doesn't matter what style your trained in. Your best option is to run like hell

Kempo Chris
04-17-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Deacon Frost
If you are fighting multiple opponents it may be more in your favor to pull guard or go to your back. At least then that way you can see them coming and pull one dude in and use him as cover. Most styles that teach you how to deal with multiple opponents teach you to do this. I know more than one fight that has been one like that.


If fighting multiple oppponents you sure as hell do not want to go to the ground and def. not pull guard. You will get ****ed up bad. You will get stepped on and all cut up on the ground.

I train for the streets and believe me groundfighting is not the way to go in a streetfight and especially not against multiple opponents.

I can hold my own against multiple attackers, but Creed is correct most people should just run.

If your fighting one on one then groundfighting is ok, but I still do not advise because streetfights are unpredictable, the guy may have a knife - and do you honestly want to roll around on the ground with a guy wielding a knife which keeps you in really nice range for him. And you never know when thier friend comes over and stomps on you or kicks you in the face.

Kempo Chris
04-17-2004, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Deacon Frost
In a street fight you don't ever want to go to the ground if it can be avoided. You never know who is going to join in or what weapons they can be carrying. But you need to have some ground skills just in case.

Absolutely

Fallout
04-17-2004, 11:39 AM
Like I said, if your fighting more than one person you should run like hell. Espically if you think they have weapons. I am not sticking around to prove how tough I am if I think someone has a knife and his buddies will jump in. I might be brave, but I'm not stupid

GNP
04-17-2004, 11:47 AM
As in any unsanctioned event there is no such thing as a fair fight. I have been in several ma tournaments and had quit a few "streetfights". YA I have run away but better to be able to catch them alone one day then to recieve flowers in the hospital.
Ihave been in tournys were guys get DQ'd for blatent rule breaking as well.
When i studied Hapkido we used to train outside in warmer weather to lear to use the "outdoors" to our advantage, it was a great lesson.

Bluecifer
04-22-2004, 04:00 PM
My first art was judo, and if we're fighting in a parking lot with broken glass on the ground your ****ed because I'm gonna toss you on your head. Personally I like to throw punches and use them as a set up to the clinch. I think in street situations ground or stand up's effectiveness depends on the skill of the indidvidual fighter. Also, I don't think it makes a hell of a difference if you're on the ground or standing if your opponents buddy's show up. IRL, if you have to fight more than 1 guy at the same time, you're pretty much ****ed. If it's 3 or more guys you're totally ****ed.

Shaolin Bushido
11-20-2004, 07:29 PM
I hear all these ground fighter say 90% of fights end on the ground. Yea i think 90% of fights end on the ground, because some get knocked out or down on the floor.
Ask yourself this where does every fight start?
In the MMA ring I think groundfighting is great, but for self defense I think it sux.
If you get into a fight just think if you go to the ground, there is not to much you can do if the person your fighting pulls out a knife or his friends run over and start stomping on you and kicking in the face.
I would fight the greatest groundfighter in the world if we fought in a parking lot with broken glass on the floor.
I enjoy ground fighiting, but do not really like it too much for self defense.
Do fights go to the ground hell yea.
I am not saying that it is not important to know groundfighting, because I personally do train in groundfighting. But for self defense do not try to take the fight to the ground.
Just my two cents.

Discuss
Argue with me
I agree with you, 100 percent. And I don't agree with anyone, 100 percent. Fighting and sports are two different things.

Dude
02-13-2005, 07:42 PM
Funny thread. Made me laugh a little. If a guy pulls a knife on you you're supposed to run, there's no art or technique that'll help you there.

But if you ground and pound how will any guy be able to pull a knife while you're hitting him in the face or choking him out? Most people aren't trained to keep cool when they're in a fight. Don't expect them to think about what they're gonna do when they're in situation like that. "Oh, I'm getting hit in the face, my nose might be broken, what am I gotta do next, well let me grab my knife"... People panic, they don't think like that. If he's to pull a knife he'll do it while he's standing and has enough time (in case he has no experience).

That being said I'd never want to got to the ground in a streetfight. You want to controll your enemey and the enviroment. On the ground you controll your enemy but what about the people that might surround you? You will not be able to see a chair getting thrown your way, you'll have no controll over the things that happen around you.

But no matter what anyone says and how tough he thinks he is it's always a bad idea to fight against multiple attackers. The risk is much too high and don't expect mercy from anyone if you've been knocking out his friend seconds ago.

As for 90% of fights ending on the ground that's bull****. That might be the case if you are unlucky enough to fight a trained groundspecialist or if you slip but that doesn't happen 90% of the times you're in a fight... hopefully.

jiggalo_joe
02-20-2005, 06:49 PM
yea man i always go 2 da floor in street fights. ppl dont ave a clue wat 2 do wen ur on top of them in mount throwin punches at em. u run circles round them lol. especially if they're bigger than me (which is usually the case.

GeNeRaL
02-20-2005, 07:10 PM
If a guy pulls a knife on you you're supposed to run, there's no art or technique that'll help you there.

tell that to my instructor of Kali. yes, running would be first and foremost for anyone i think, but...he does live blade knife training all the time. someone pulls a knife on him, he'll be the first to pullone right back, considering the 4 he pretty much always has on him and trains to fight with. knives are his favorite weapons and he wont hesitate to use one if he had to.

point is, if you train to fight with a knife for 30 years, and some joe schmoe whips one out against you and you havent many options....your "training and technique" can very well prove helpful, just as if your avg non-training friend wrestles with you and you are a bjj blackbelt, or your avg non-training friend play boxes with you and you are a golden gloves boxer.

Sara
02-21-2005, 01:29 AM
General,

ah, but can he handle a game of knifey-spooney?

kadyo
02-21-2005, 02:29 AM
Wow! I just teleported myself to another forum. Hello to all of you. Am a "newbie" here. Does anyone among you knows where this marial art kali originated from? :)

kaps
02-21-2005, 03:20 AM
As for 90% of fights ending on the ground that's bull****. That might be the case if you are unlucky enough to fight a trained groundspecialist or if you slip but that doesn't happen 90% of the times you're in a fight... hopefully.

thats weird, because damn near every streetfight i have seen has ended up on the ground.....

GeNeRaL
02-21-2005, 03:24 AM
Wow! I just teleported myself to another forum. Hello to all of you. Am a "newbie" here. Does anyone among you knows where this marial art kali originated from? :)
the kali i train in under said instructor, is Pekiti-Tersia Kali from the Philippines, under Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje

:)

GeNeRaL
02-21-2005, 03:25 AM
General,

ah, but can he handle a game of knifey-spooney?
"there is no spooney"

:p

Shaolin Bushido
02-22-2005, 02:56 AM
My first art was judo, and if we're fighting in a parking lot with broken glass on the ground your ****ed because I'm gonna toss you on your head. Personally I like to throw punches and use them as a set up to the clinch. I think in street situations ground or stand up's effectiveness depends on the skill of the indidvidual fighter. Also, I don't think it makes a hell of a difference if you're on the ground or standing if your opponents buddy's show up. IRL, if you have to fight more than 1 guy at the same time, you're pretty much ****ed. If it's 3 or more guys you're totally ****ed.Yeah, but you might land in some of that glass and it doesn't care who it cuts.

In other news I slammed a dude on cement when I was in the Corps. We were having a "discussion"; and while I was facing his buds he was pouring a beer on my chest. As soon as I turned and realized what he was doing I (crudely) sorta belly to belly suplexed his ass, beer and all. He was out as soon as he hit the cement. His beer burst all over the place but neitther of us got in trouble cause he and the other guys drinking in the barracks were all Corporals(I was a lance corporal) and they had no business with beer in the squadbay.

I was so mad, he felt light as a feather!*smiles at the memory*

czars_salad
02-22-2005, 03:04 AM
Wow! I just teleported myself to another forum. Hello to all of you. Am a "newbie" here. Does anyone among you knows where this marial art kali originated from? :)
hey bro have we met before in some other forums? hehe

HockeyFighter
02-22-2005, 04:12 AM
Taking the back and choking out an untrained person is the easiest thing in the world standing or on the ground. Most of the time you can simply spin a person right into a choke and put them out. Usually you can deal with 2 guys pretty easily if you can get one in a choke fast, put him out in 3 seconds, then deal with his friend. Any more than 2 and you're pretty much done.

kaps
02-22-2005, 04:33 AM
if i am against multiple attackers, the last thing im thinking about is a choke. i'd be more interested in finding a weopen or running...

The Phantom Menace
02-27-2005, 09:44 PM
You should know both- how to ground fight and how to strike.

Shaolin Bushido
02-27-2005, 09:55 PM
You should know both- how to ground fight and how to strike.Chris Leben. LOMFL!

The Phantom Menace
02-27-2005, 11:13 PM
Chris Leben. LOMFL!


what does that mean?

kaps
02-28-2005, 04:49 AM
You should know both- how to ground fight and how to strike.

Werd. Or know how defend the strikes enough too get the guy your fighting on the ground....

Shaolin Bushido
03-09-2005, 01:15 AM
what does that mean?I was pointing out what an ideal example of someone well versed in both stand-up and groundfighting that Leben is.

LOMFL = laugh out mother****ing loud.