I was watching the showtime episode of Bull****. If you guys don't know the show. Its Penn and Teller basically ridiculing and debunking bull**** artists or just plain idiots. The episode was about how southern people in the United States. Didn't want evolution to be taught in public schools as the truth. They wanted it to be taught as a theory. When there are countless evidence that support evoulution. Now get this they want to put it in biology and other science books another explanation for man and how the world came to be. Its called, "Creationism." The way they explain how the earth and man came to be is a Divine force intervened just like the bible says and wallah. Here we are now. Now they can't say God. If they say God its a religion. As you guys know. The Constitution says you can't have church and state together. Meaning you can't have religion in a public school. Theyr'e actually lobbying for this crap. Man these people are hilarious. Don't get me wrong, I'am a God fearing man. But come on. I think God is a little bit more complex then these guys are lead to believe. I mean seven days to make the world. Sure, but who's to say that to God a day equals a billion years or more. I have no problem with freedom of speech but when I have kids I don't want them to learn that humans have been around for only a couple of thousand years or so. When we have evidence like "lucy" and dinosaurs that say otherwise. I want straight facts. Like the say the truth will set you free. Just wonder why these people won't accept the truth about science?

They're called Southern Baptists.

so they are trying to take the "science" of how we all got here and trying to re-iterate it with another scenario?

They basically don't want evolution taught because they say it questions religion. They had this debate the entire time i was in school.

i don't accept everything about science. if there's one thing that it HAS proven, it's the flaws that reside in it. evolution is a theory. although it seems to make the most sense in a scientific aspect, it's still a theory....not a law. if i hold a penny and let go of it then it's gonna fall to the ground- that's a law.

Originally posted by Allison
They basically don't want evolution taught because they say it questions religion. They had this debate the entire time i was in school.

that was a long time ago, grandma. it kinda makes sense. i mean i personally dont believe in buddah, alah, etc etc, but people are free to their own religions. if we try teaching something else, it kinda contradicts our rights to believe what we want. unless religion can be proven over another. which thats where the questioning of religion comes in. at the same time, in history and science should be able to detail evolution with fact. if they can't, then they prolly should'nt teach it.

Not really, my point is that its been a long standing argument. If you want your child to learn that God just made man, send him to a Christian school. Otherwise, its my opinion that they should teach the scientific explanation, The Theory of Evolution. But I do agree that it is just an theory. If you believe your religion, who cares what the teacher tells you anyhow? Isn't that what faith is?

How could you even begin to teach one religion over another in school? Its much safer to just keep religion out at all.

Theory, an assumption or system of assumptions, accepted principles, and rules of procedure based on limited information or knowledge, devised to... from the Encarta Online Encyclopedia. Yes, at one time evolution was theory. Not enough evidence to substatiate the theory of evolution. Now its 2004, i think we have way more factual information supporting that evolution is a fact. Ie "Lucy" one of the oldest descendants of man. There are even older homonids like Java man. Dinosaurs are a big plus even geologists have to agree with that.

we've known about lucy & the dinosaurs for quite sometime now, so i don't see how us being in the year 2004 makes any difference. it's 2004 and and evolution is still "an assumption or system of assumptions, accepted principles, and rules of procedure based on limited information or knowledge, devised to... "

the only role that current affairs play in this issue is increasing trend of the "man over God" ways of thinking.

Yes, we have known about lucy and dinosaurs for awhile now. That just bolsters the fact that evolution is true. The only thing that bugs people is the adamant belief that there is only man that came first in their bible. Nothing else. Anything that deviates from that is heresy.

I'm southern baptist :fu:

I'm glad I live in Joisey....

That was the best episode EVA!!! It showed the true ignorance of religion and its moronic followers. I have it on tape I liked it so much.

When does this show air?

Oh and another thing that a supposed scholar of creationism stated to prove that creationism is a science not a religion. He stated that the grand canyon was caused by a great flood (Noah's Ark). He couldn't say it was Noah's Ark or scientist would have to dismiss it. He said that in one day it caused the canyon to be made. Even if it took a month long hell, even a year you still can't sculp that suma***** to what it looks now. It took millions of years. This crackpot is saying that it took one short time to make something that enormous. Another thing he states to disprove evolution is if there was life before man. Where are the evidence for microbe fossils? When all over the world paleontologists are discovering millions of years old bacteria. Hell, all you have to do is go online and there are myriad of articles to such findings. Here's another thing, if you can't find any proof for ancient microbes. What do you call the oil and gas in your car.

Originally posted by agfa
Yes, we have known about lucy and dinosaurs for awhile now. That just bolsters the fact that evolution is true.
if it's a fact then it doesn't need bolstering. it simply bolsters the theory.

Originally posted by agfa

The only thing that bugs people is the adamant belief that there is only man that came first in their bible. Nothing else. Anything that deviates from that is heresy.
how does that bug people? if it's "their" Bible then they believe in it so if it bugged them then they simply wouldn't put their faith in it. and man didn't come first in the Bible. every bird, animal, and fish came beforehand.

Originally posted by agfa
Oh and another thing that a supposed scholar of creationism stated to prove that creationism is a science not a religion. He stated that the grand canyon was caused by a great flood (Noah's Ark). He couldn't say it was Noah's Ark or scientist would have to dismiss it. He said that in one day it caused the canyon to be made. Even if it took a month long hell, even a year you still can't sculp that suma***** to what it looks now. It took millions of years. This crackpot is saying that it took one short time to make something that enormous. Another thing he states to disprove evolution is if there was life before man. Where are the evidence for microbe fossils? When all over the world paleontologists are discovering millions of years old bacteria. Hell, all you have to do is go online and there are myriad of articles to such findings. Here's another thing, if you can't find any proof for ancient microbes. What do you call the oil and gas in your car.

so basically, because one dude has a funky theory on noah and the fact that scientists can carbon date fossils and million-year old bacteria, evolution is now a factual law and no longer a theory.

Well you had to watch the show to see the perception of these people. I don't think I made myself clear when i voiced my opinion to your last post Purity. Yes, its true other creatures existed. These people on that show just don't accept that their origions came from hominids. They expected to just be what we look like right now.

Originally posted by agfa
...just don't accept that their origions came from hominids. They expected to just be what we look like right now.

this is where i lost ya. are you saying "their" as in the people on the show or the creatures discussed? i also don't understand that last sentence either

Purity, I'am not dissing God. I'am just suggesting that teaching religion in public schools is unconstitutional and not a good idea. Transubstanation is a far fetch thing when you think about it. But I believe in it. That belongs in church not in school. Science isn't a democratic thing. Its either right or wrong. Which ever has the evidence that supports something. Scientists will sway to that logic cuz it makes sense. The church persecuted galileo cuz he found out the earth revolved around the sun not the other way around. Most scientists were really religious fanatics back then. They wanted to prove the existence of God. Everytime, they found out something that contradicted the bible or church they got persecuted for it. Thats why they keep that **** seperate nowadays. Having religion is a good thing. Thats something intangible. Maybe somethings should be kept mysterious. I'am cool with that. Science promotes the welfare of man. But don't be telling my kid that a few thousand years ago we just came to be. Without, the help from evolution.

Their as in the people at the show.

Originally posted by agfa
Purity, I'am not dissing God. I'am just suggesting that teaching religion in public schools is unconstitutional and not a good idea. Transubstanation is a far fetch thing when you think about it. But I believe in it. That belongs in church not in school. Science isn't a democratic thing. Its either right or wrong. Which ever has the evidence that supports something. Scientists will sway to that logic cuz it makes sense. The church persecuted galileo cuz he found out the earth revolved around the sun not the other way around. Most scientists were really religious fanatics back then. They wanted to prove the existence of God. Everytime, they found out something that contradicted the bible or church they got persecuted for it. Thats why they keep that **** seperate nowadays. Having religion is a good thing. Thats something intangible. Maybe somethings should be kept mysterious. I'am cool with that. Science promotes the welfare of man. But don't be telling my kid that a few thousand years ago we just came to be. Without, the help from evolution.

i never interpreted you as dissing God Ag. what i don't agree with is moving evolution from a theory to a law. how it's presented right now is just fine. teachers tell children that one of the most popular scientific beliefs behind the creation of man is the theory of evolution. but it's just as insulting to people of a free nation to shove down the theory of evolution to our children as a law of what actually did happen as it is to force a child to believe in God when he's from an athiest family.

you can take one apple and place it on a table, then add another apple and say that you have 2 APPLES. that is a law of mathematics and is proven to the naked eye. therefore it is taught as a LAW of logic. evolution is simply (as you stated) and assumption of events based on collected evidence. you DON'T present something like that as a law.

now i personally want my children to accept God and the Bible as a law just as much as 1 + 1 = 2. therefore i can CHOOSE to take my children to a private school.

Yeah, those creationists are ****ing retarded products of inbreeding. Michael Shermer debunks them even further in his book"Why People believe wierd things". Those guys would be laughable if they weren't so scary. Man, I never even want to VISIT the those places.

Dude that was a good retort to my opinion. Nonetheless, if you'd seen the show. You probably would have a tough time talking with these people. Thats right you do have the right to take your child to a private school. But, in they're action. They made one southern county put in their public schools creationism. Which is not a science. My whole thing is you can't put religion in public schools. Its illegal by law. What happens to the kids that can't afford private schools and don't believe in catholicism. They won't have that fortunate choice.

Originally posted by prime cut
I'm southern baptist :fu:
I am a southern baptist but my fiath isn't as hardcore as many of the other churches around my area. We have all different little divisions among our baptist groups. The people that believe the things that this tv show claims are what we refer to as freewill baptists. They do things such as talking in tongues and the like, which is way more extreme than the church I'm a memeber of. I don't believe in evolution, but I 'm nowhere near as exterme in my beliefs as those people.

i agree with you that they shouldn't present creationism as a science either. it should be treated the same as evolution and given a "some people believe that..." type of intro.

all religions are taught in there proper respect in public schools and that's ok. but it's never ok to try to force any type of faith down someone's throat. as a proper teacher on theories, your job is to present (not manipulate) the facts as we know them and then allow the student to make their own conclusion.

Originally posted by Purity
i agree with you that they shouldn't present creationism as a science either. it should be treated the same as evolution and given a "some people believe that..." type of intro.

all religions are taught in there proper respect in public schools and that's ok. but it's never ok to try to force any type of faith down someone's throat. as a proper teacher on theories, your job is to present (not manipulate) the facts as we know them and then allow the student to make their own conclusion.
This is my churches belief on this matter in a nutshell.

It should be noted, that while evolution is a "theory" there is a mountain of evidence backing it up and it's almost impoosible to refute that it is fact, where as creationism is in direct contradiction to scientific method and common sense. They have evidence of organisms evolving to meet environmental changes by way of skeletons, fossils and DNA. Creationism is ridiculous.(No offence prime cut, just my opinion)

Originally posted by Blue Dawg
It should be noted, that while evolution is a "theory" there is a mountain of evidence backing it up and it's almost impoosible to refute that it is fact, where as creationism is in direct contradiction to scientific method and common sense. They have evidence of organisms evolving to meet environmental changes by way of skeletons, fossils and DNA. Creationism is ridiculous.(No offence prime cut, just my opinion)

just because it appears at this time to be the most logical explanation simply means just that.

it doesn't mean that it's a law. a good LAW to back that up would be the law of change: the only thing constant is change

Purity, people back then said the world was flat. Now we have evidence that disaproves that. What other evidence do you need to see to agree to evolution?

Actually, here's a good question. What don't you agree about evolution?

Originally posted by agfa
Actually, here's a good question. What don't you agree about evolution?

it goes against what was stated in the Bible. regardless of logical reasoning on the surface, God and His word have never let me down in life, ever. mankind does it about once every half an hour. therefore i stick to the Bible.

Originally posted by Purity
it goes against what was stated in the Bible. regardless of logical reasoning on the surface, God and His word have never let me down in life, ever. mankind does it about once every half an hour. therefore i stick to the Bible.
Nice. You da man.

Neither is a proven fact, so people can believe whichever they please without being proven wrong.

True, but then, the bible also said that Noah put 2 of everything on a big boat during a long rain...:devil

**** I wasn't there. How do I know? Maybe it was a really big boat. Maybe somebody made this up. Either way I could care less.

Even with the super tankers of today, the logistics would be impossible. Anyway, I'm not saying that the Bilbe isn't a great book that's helped many people to a better life, just that maybe everything in it wasn't meant to be taken at face value. There are many metaphors and stories in there that are meant to be just that. Like the story of Adam and Eve. I think God WANTS us to use the brains he gave us and not forsake reason for the sake of blind faith.

Originally posted by Nuno
**** I wasn't there. How do I know?